One of those moments where I have clarity over the hatred of "fanboys"

[Press_Start]

So if people put up with these hardware disasters it's out of necessity more than anything. A video game console isn't like a DVD player where you have different brands to choose from that do essentially the same thing. I doubt that people would be as willing to buy a second or third Panasonic DVD player if they had the same problems the 360s do. Most would just go out and buy a Sony or Philips or something.


I want to tackle this from a different angle starting with a question: why next-gen? 360 fans feel the Wii and PS3 game selection do not live up to their expectations and its a valid argument, IF they were the only consoles. Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 with DVD capabilities are just as good and cheaper than next-gen products.

With Big N excluding, the contrasting factors among the two generations are numerous yet minut.
Graphics: Xbox360 and PS3 have a leg up in that department. However, the field of graphical presentation has begun to plateau as its generally harder to see anything to be impressed with. The WOW factor is staggering low when compared to previous transitions (i.e. NES/SNES, PS1/PS2).

Games: A game will always play the same no matter when you play it now or 5 years later. Look at the NES, its been 20 years and most games still provide the addicting, old-school fun. Online multiplayer? Starcraft and Diablo II

Cost: Advantage goes to last-gen. The market's moving forward and to move forward, new room is needed for new games. To make room for new games, old games have go out and FAST. Solution: slash prices!

The conundrum here isn't why do you still have the 360? It's, given what's available, why haven't you develop a better resolution to hardware issues? (For example, get a PS2 and wait it out. The system holds similar gameplay and DVD capabilities with the 360. Games are cheaper and still just as fun. When MS finally releases a working and reliable model, you can still buy up the system with all the must-have title with the saving grace that you didn't have go through years of hassle to there.)

[nintendoeats]

Interesting. I mostly agree with you, but its hard not to see something like GTA IV, or MGS4 come out and not hate yourself for not being able to play them.

[TonyTheTiger]

I want to tackle this from a different angle starting with a question: why next-gen? 360 fans feel the Wii and PS3 game selection do not live up to their expectations and its a valid argument, IF they were the only consoles. Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 with DVD capabilities are just as good and cheaper than next-gen products.

But they're different games. Ignoring cross platform releases for a moment, if I want to play Tales of Vesperia I must have a 360 to play it on. I, in theory, could just get a Gamecube and play Tales of Symphonia but that's just a game like the one I want to play. It isn't actually Tales of Vesperia.


With Big N excluding, the contrasting factors among the two generations are numerous yet minut.
Graphics: Xbox360 and PS3 have a leg up in that department. However, the field of graphical presentation has begun to plateau as its generally harder to see anything to be impressed with. The WOW factor is staggering low when compared to previous transitions (i.e. NES/SNES, PS1/PS2).

That doesn't matter, though, because the games are different.


Games: A game will always play the same no matter when you play it now or 5 years later. Look at the NES, its been 20 years and most games still provide the addicting, old-school fun. Online multiplayer? Starcraft and Diablo II

Ok, then how about this. What if you had different DVD players that each could only selectively play movies? If I want to watch Die Hard I would have no choice but to buy DVD Player X. Perhaps I could buy DVD Player Y and watch Double Impact but that would be a concession on my part.


Cost: Advantage goes to last-gen. The market's moving forward and to move forward, new room is needed for new games. To make room for new games, old games have go out and FAST. Solution: slash prices!

That's always going to be the case. But you are clearly missing the point that while Die Hard on a Panasonic DVD player is the same as Die Hard on a Sony DVD Player, Halo on the Xbox is not the same as Halo 3 on the Xbox 360. That's the key difference.


The conundrum here isn't why do you still have the 360? It's, given what's available, why haven't you develop a better resolution to hardware issues? (For example, get a PS2 and wait it out. The system holds similar gameplay and DVD capabilities with the 360. Games are cheaper and still just as fun. When MS finally releases a working and reliable model, you can still buy up the system with all the must-have title with the saving grace that you didn't have go through years of hassle to there.)

But they aren't the same games. Explain to me how, if I want to play Lost Odyssey, I can do that without an Xbox 360. I can't.

[Rob2600]

Fanboy is effectively a derogatory word. I think what you're thinking of is "supporter," "loyal customer," or just "fan."

Good point!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Good point!

I prefer to refer to myself as an "enthusiast".

[Press_Start]

What's the rush? Will it matter if you played GTA IV today or 3 years from now? The most likely case is no, cause it'll still be the same game. As a big RPG fan, I've been having my eye on Tales of Vesperia and Last Remnant but choose to hold out when MS finally catch all the gremlins in their machines.

It's not the end of the world. Can't find Die Hard on DVD player X, so what? There are other action flicks out there for player YZABC and doubt most would keel over or cut their wrist, otherwise. It's perplexing how people rationalize as if a gun is pointing to their head force to choice A, B, or C or be killed in 10 seconds, when its actuality you have choice D, E, F, G, H, etc. and no one is forcing it upon them but themselves.

Of course, the diehards will support the system and its games no matter what but realize not every owner is a diehard. Most just want to play games. So, what's the difference is they get from a state-of-the-art machine or a 5-year old console.

[nintendoeats]

If I hadn't played MGS4, I really do feel that I would have missed out on an important part of our culture. having played it, I can see that the game is something of a modern mythology. Part of any art form is context. Games are always going to be better right when they come out, at least for most people.

[TonyTheTiger]

What's the rush? Will it matter if you played GTA IV today or 3 years from now? The most likely case is no, cause it'll still be the same game. As a big RPG fan, I've been having my eye on Tales of Vesperia and Last Remnant but choose to hold out when MS finally catch all the gremlins in their machines.

It's not the end of the world. Can't find Die Hard on DVD player X, so what? There are other action flicks out there for player YZABC and doubt most would keel over or cut their wrist, otherwise. It's perplexing how people rationalize as if a gun is pointing to their head force to choice A, B, or C or be killed in 10 seconds, when its actuality you have choice D, E, F, G, H, etc. and no one is forcing it upon them but themselves.

Of course, the diehards will support the system and its games no matter what but realize not every owner is a diehard. Most just want to play games. So, what's the difference is they get from a state-of-the-art machine or a 5-year old console.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that video games are life and death. But if I want to watch Die Hard then I want to watch Die Hard. I don't want to have to watch something else. Not all action movies are created equally. If I want to play Tales of Vesperia then that's what I want to play. Will I hang myself if I can't? Of course not. But wanting to play something that I can't play anywhere else will drive me to put up with more troubles than I'd be willing to put up with if I had alternative machines on which to play it. You can't just point to a different game and say "that should do just fine" because it clearly won't. If you go to a steakhouse wanting to eat steak and instead the menu only offers peanut butter & jelly I have a hard time imagining you wouldn't be a little disappointed.

Besides, you can extend this logic only so far before it becomes absurd. "You all shouldn't have spent all that money on those NES games back in the day. You should have just waited the 10 years for emulation to take root and played them all for free. It's the same game and costs less." The fallacy of the argument, though, is that if you're always waiting for a "better deal" then you'll never really be satisfied in the now. I wouldn't trade those 10 years of gaming away just because I could have gotten the games cheaper later on. I wouldn't have not gone to watch The Dark Knight in the theaters just because I could have rented the DVD later on. I wouldn't have not started exercising to get in shape years ago just because I could have put it off until later and gotten the same results.

Furthermore, not every game does remain the same. MMOs have their servers shut down. Fighting games see the competition thin as players mass migrate to new games. Someone who can fire up World of Warcraft today and be presented with a rich world full of life might not always be able to do that.

If you aren't worried about missing out of the now then that's your business. But most people don't think that way.

[SegaAges]

What's the rush? Will it matter if you played GTA IV today or 3 years from now? The most likely case is no, cause it'll still be the same game. As a big RPG fan, I've been having my eye on Tales of Vesperia and Last Remnant but choose to hold out when MS finally catch all the gremlins in their machines.

It's not the end of the world. Can't find Die Hard on DVD player X, so what? There are other action flicks out there for player YZABC and doubt most would keel over or cut their wrist, otherwise. It's perplexing how people rationalize as if a gun is pointing to their head force to choice A, B, or C or be killed in 10 seconds, when its actuality you have choice D, E, F, G, H, etc. and no one is forcing it upon them but themselves.

Of course, the diehards will support the system and its games no matter what but realize not every owner is a diehard. Most just want to play games. So, what's the difference is they get from a state-of-the-art machine or a 5-year old console.

No clue what this is about seeing as I missed a few pages of posts, but let me hop in here a minute.

Fanboy is a derrogatory term for some. For others, it is used as a term for absolute passion about something. Me, personally, well if you have read any of the posts recently, then I don't even need to say what I am very passionate about.

What seperates a fanboy like me, and many others, is the fact that I am open minded. Yeah, look at my sig and the games I am playing for 360, the top 5 are not Sega games or even Sonic games. Look at my collection. I own a buttload of Mario games and such as well.

Like whoever the hell you want to like, just don't sit there and try to be a dick about who I like. Say, "X Game character is awesome. They are the best ever. They can never be stopped." You can still be called a fanboy. But then, there are the (sorry for the derrogatory theft here, it fits) asshats who will add to that, "X Game character is awesome. They are the best ever. They can never be stopped. Halo sucks".

Yes, I am also personally guilty of doing that too, but at least I own all the Halo games. I can say I don't like Halo out of personal experience, not out of a blind eye that it is not made by a certain company. I think those blind people are the ones that are throwing us all off.

I also noticed a quote, I just wanted to respond to it for fun:

What's the rush? Will it matter if you played GTA IV today or 3 years from now? The most likely case is no, cause it'll still be the same game. As a big RPG fan, I've been having my eye on Tales of Vesperia and Last Remnant but choose to hold out when MS finally catch all the gremlins in their machines.

It's not the end of the world. Can't find Die Hard on DVD player X, so what? There are other action flicks out there for player YZABC and doubt most would keel over or cut their wrist, otherwise. It's perplexing how people rationalize as if a gun is pointing to their head force to choice A, B, or C or be killed in 10 seconds, when its actuality you have choice D, E, F, G, H, etc. and no one is forcing it upon them but themselves.

Of course, the diehards will support the system and its games no matter what but realize not every owner is a diehard. Most just want to play games. So, what's the difference is they get from a state-of-the-art machine or a 5-year old console.

Me, personally, I swear I am borderline ADD if not have it but never diagnosed for it. GTA 4, I have to have it soon, or else I will forget that I should play it. I did this with the entire MegaMan series. I waited until, what, about 2 weeks ago or something, to even start playing the series. I have a habit of easily forgetting about games, but many of them are really good.

I also like to discuss games that have been released, and if I am interested in it, I will buy it. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford that (most of the time). If you can't afford it, yes, buy the games when they have been out for 3 years. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't sit there and tell me that if you had an option to get it when it first came out that you wouldn't do it. I have that option and I choose to do it.

As for die hard, you are correct. You can find that on any format you want. Did that come out on HD-DVD? If not, I bet it is on blu-ray somewhere, and I bet it is out on beta max as well.

I do agree that fanboys need to open their eyes more. You can be a fanboy and absolutely adore a system, company, whatever, and think it is the best thing since individually sliced bread, but you also have to open your eyes to other possibilities. Me personally, I think Metroid Prime rocks. *Gasp* A huge Sega fan claiming love for a Nintendo franchise? Yes. I can't deny a good game. Super Mario sunshine, I just didn't enjoy it. Mario Kart. Seriously, everybody knows that Mario Kart is awesome. I keep an open mind. If I don't like something, I will say it, but I will always keep an open mind. That is the reason why I also love the Atlus fanboys (who know who you are). The people I talk to that are totally all about Atlus also have very open minds for other games.

Not opening your mind and you are just missing out on great games that other companies push out.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

What's the rush? Will it matter if you played GTA IV today or 3 years from now? The most likely case is no, cause it'll still be the same game. As a big RPG fan, I've been having my eye on Tales of Vesperia and Last Remnant but choose to hold out when MS finally catch all the gremlins in their machines.

It's not the end of the world. Can't find Die Hard on DVD player X, so what? There are other action flicks out there for player YZABC and doubt most would keel over or cut their wrist, otherwise. It's perplexing how people rationalize as if a gun is pointing to their head force to choice A, B, or C or be killed in 10 seconds, when its actuality you have choice D, E, F, G, H, etc. and no one is forcing it upon them but themselves.

Of course, the diehards will support the system and its games no matter what but realize not every owner is a diehard. Most just want to play games. So, what's the difference is they get from a state-of-the-art machine or a 5-year old console.

This attitude will obviously vary from user to user with varying degrees.

There are several "must have" (IMO) games each sales quarter that I purposely pass up due to time constraints (not enough time to play through), budget constraints (I don't mind waiting for price drops) or other various reasons.

But when it comes to hardware, I'm often an early adopter. In some cases its bit me in the butt (multiple defective 360s) and in other's it was in my benefit (close to a year having a 1.5 firmware PSP before they figured out how to downgrade later firmware versions) and in yet other cases it just makes me feel plain stupid (the GBASP and the DS Lite were FAR superior to their earlier iterations prompting me to re-purchase) ...

... but honestly, your argument boils down to I think - the individual tendencies of the user, and I don't think that you're going to convince anybody to NOT buy games at launch or be an early hardware adopter by preaching/debating about it.

[Rob2600]

I prefer to refer to myself as an "enthusiast".

You're right, that word works better than fanboy.


What's the rush? Will it matter if you played GTA IV today or 3 years from now? The most likely case is no, cause it'll still be the same game.

I know what you mean, but a lot of times when I miss out on a game, I end up never going back to play through it.

For example, everyone loves River City Ransom for the NES. I missed out on that game in the early 1990s and I doubt I'll ever sit down and play it from beginning to end. The moment has passed. There must be others who are the same way.

[Press_Start]

But if I want to watch Die Hard then I want to watch Die Hard. I don't want to have to watch something else. Not all action movies are created equally.

Should that mean you dismiss every other action movie out there? What about Robocop? Beverly Hills Cop? Lethal Weapon? Rocky? Like how some players reject all other titles cause its not Halo. Just cause you can't get something you want right now doesn't imply everything else can't deliver. Take eggplants, the only veggie I've ingested are the garden variety salads or on subs (lettece, tomato, onions, etc.) until I sampled a tasting of my roommates cooking. Now, I'm more open-minded to the veggie menu when going to restaurants.



If I want to play Tales of Vesperia then that's what I want to play...But wanting to play something that I can't play anywhere else will drive me to put up with more troubles than I'd be willing to put up with if I had alternative machines on which to play it.

Does that imply that you're willing to spend double or triple regular price to play a game right now than wait a few years for normal price?



You can't just point to a different game and say "that should do just fine" because it clearly won't.

Why don't I point to those 10 XBox games over there? Doesn't fancy ya? Then let me direct you to the 100 PS1 games? What about the 500 PS2 disc stacked here? Here's a helping of 1000 Gameboy Games. Oh why do we messing with games, follow the yellow brick road to a city filled with millions of books, video tapes, DVDs, and more. I'm sure you'd find something to your liking.




Furthermore, not every game does remain the same. MMOs have their servers shut down. Fighting games see the competition thin as players mass migrate to new games. Someone who can fire up World of Warcraft today and be presented with a rich world full of life might not always be able to do that.


You're right. I should go tell every person playing free user-gen servers and mods to drop Starcraft and Diablo II and start ponying up $15 a month on WoW.


I don't think that you're going to convince anybody to NOT buy games at launch or be an early hardware adopter by preaching/debating about it.

"Out with the old and in with the new" comes to mind. Can't really blame them. It's a like a gift-wrapped present, something to peek our curiosity and quenching their curious appetites. Last I checked my calendar, it didn't say 2005. The 360 problems keep recurring frequently, MS hasn't made a firm grip on its problems, and everyone knows this 3 years later.



I do agree that fanboys need to open their eyes more. You can be a fanboy and absolutely adore a system, company, whatever, and think it is the best thing since individually sliced bread, but you also have to open your eyes to other possibilities. Me personally, I think Metroid Prime rocks. *Gasp* A huge Sega fan claiming love for a Nintendo franchise? Yes. I can't deny a good game. Super Mario sunshine, I just didn't enjoy it. Mario Kart. Seriously, everybody knows that Mario Kart is awesome. I keep an open mind. If I don't like something, I will say it, but I will always keep an open mind. That is the reason why I also love the Atlus fanboys (who know who you are). The people I talk to that are totally all about Atlus also have very open minds for other games.

Not opening your mind and you are just missing out on great games that other companies push out.

Took the words right out of my month. ;)

[TonyTheTiger]

Stuff.

What's your angle? That nobody should ever buy anything until it's in a bargain bin? You may as well suggest that nobody should ever eat lobster or steak because you can get the same nutrition from far less expensive foods. Or that nobody should ever watch movies because you can just have a friend tell you about them and save yourself a few bucks. Why should I watch Die Hard at all? I can fire up Google and read a plot synopsis. Yay, entertainment!

Besides, you're selectively picking things to respond to. Like I said, a fighting game now is not the same as a fighting game later on. And if you think that any MMO is the same after the servers shut down you're just being naive. The userbase drops dramatically.

I don't know. Maybe I'm playing Cracker Jack box psychiatrist here but I'm going to venture a guess that you were the kid who wanted Transformers and ended up getting Gobots instead and never recovered from that trauma.

[Rob2600]

I'm going to venture a guess that you were the kid who wanted Transformers and ended up getting Gobots instead

or worse...Rock Lords!

[Press_Start]

LOL Oh no, I got Transformers. Optimus and Grimlock were my favorite. Did get one of those transforming rocks too and he was fun to play with. ;)

That's kinda of my point. When I got my Nintendo 64 with Mario 64, I couldn't wait to pay it. After a month or so, I finally able to get all 120 stars and beat Bowser. Grabbed a Toys R' Us catalog and was shocked to find only 6 games were available (including Mario). Unfortunately, none were interesting and went back to playing Mario 64 again until I got bored about half way. Soon after, continued my gaming adventures on the SNES and sometimes played Punch-Out on my old NES. Playing Mario on the NES and SNES was just as fun as playing him on the N64.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

"Out with the old and in with the new" comes to mind. Can't really blame them. It's a like a gift-wrapped present, something to peek our curiosity and quenching their curious appetites. Last I checked my calendar, it didn't say 2005. The 360 problems keep recurring frequently, MS hasn't made a firm grip on its problems, and everyone knows this 3 years later.

Ummmmmmm ... what?

You're either trying to wax poetic ... or having some type of absent seizure while you're typing.

It's been pointed out here already, but your position is illogical.

This industry is as much about forward momentum as it is about classic nostalgia.

I don't know what you "think" you know about my gaming habits, but I spend as much time playing with "last-gen" and "classic" systems as I do with the current gen stuff ... as far as I move into the modern era of gaming, if a game WAS good in the last gen, I openly continue to enjoy it regardless of what new purchases I've made. (In some cases through virtual-console type releases, in some cases through emulation, and in some cases through the actual classic hardware).

The great dynamic about video games is that if it was fun to play 20 years ago, it probably still IS fun to play.

The difference between you and I is that you ONLY seem to want to have the option to play the last-gen.

You can have fun with that.

[TonyTheTiger]

LOL Oh no, I got Transformers. Optimus and Grimlock were my favorite. Did get one of those transforming rocks too and he was fun to play with. ;)

That's kinda of my point. When I got my Nintendo 64 with Mario 64, I couldn't wait to pay it. After a month or so, I finally able to get all 120 stars and beat Bowser. Grabbed a Toys R' Us catalog and was shocked to find only 6 games were available (including Mario). Unfortunately, none were interesting and went back to playing Mario 64 again until I got bored about half way. Soon after, continued my gaming adventures on the SNES and sometimes played Punch-Out on my old NES. Playing Mario on the NES and SNES was just as fun as playing him on the N64.

I can sympathize with someone who has bouts of nostalgia for the "good ol' days." I can even sympathize, although wouldn't necessarily agree, with someone who thinks that modern games have "lost something." What I'm getting from you, however, is the message that "fun is fun" which I absolutely disagree with. Not everyone is in the mood for the same kind of fun every single time. Super Mario World is fun. Yet I'd go crazy if that were the only game I could play. Sometimes I want a different kind of fun. Sometimes I want to play Mega Man. And even other times I want to play Chrono Trigger. If I get the itch to play Chrono Trigger and can't for whatever reason I'd probably elect to play nothing and just watch TV or get some work done instead. I usually wouldn't play another fun game that I wasn't in the mood to play because, honestly, as much fun as I can have with Mega Man, if I'm not in the mood for it then it just feels like work.

So if I get an itch to play Mass Effect then that's what I want to play and, prior to the PC version's release, I needed a 360 to do that. Pointing to Jade Empire does me no good since despite as much fun as that game is, it wasn't the game I wanted to play at that moment. If I'm forced into making concessions too often in what I play, I'll end up electing to play nothing. If you want to watch the Superbowl but the TV were out would you be perfectly content if someone said "Just play some Mario because fun is fun"? Or if they said "Just watch this old tape of Superbowl '97 because football is football"? You might end up doing that to pass the time but you probably wouldn't be happy about it.

[Press_Start]

If you want to watch the Superbowl but the TV were out would you be perfectly content if someone said "Just play some Mario because fun is fun"? Or if they said "Just watch this old tape of Superbowl '97 because football is football"? You might end up doing that to pass the time but you probably wouldn't be happy about it.

In one word...YES! :D :D :D

After that, I'd turn on the Wii, load up Wii Sports, and play "Buzzed Olympics" with my friends. Let's take it up a notch and have a SSBB tournament. And finishing the night with a Mario Kart grand prix.

Just because you didn't get what you wanted, shouldn't mean the whole night be spent sulking about it. There's always something out there that's as good, if not, better. There more to life (and video games) than getting what you want and if you want mope around, that's your decision. For me, there's too many games I haven't played yet. :D

[SegaAges]

Wait, so if the tv is out, how can you play mario?

hahahaha

[Press_Start]

Wait, so if the tv is out, how can you play mario?

hahahaha

Simple, use my back up. ;)