Atari Lynx-Eye of the Beholder-Buyer List

[EricDeLee]

(Copied from my thread at Atari Age)


Eye of The Beholder Lynx carts....

Here's the deal. I do not own this, yet I am asking for a serious list of buyers. I'm not asking for a deposit, or anything silly like that. What I am asking is for honest opinions and Eventually what I would like to do is have a LIST of potential buyers to show that the market is there to produce a limited run of EotB. So this is like a market survey, so-to-speak, to basically either prove that a list of people out there want this cart. Or it will be the opposite: I will learn that perhaps there just is not enough interest to support a release of this game.

So, just like we do in the other forums with Atari 2600 carts and hacks and prototype repros... I'm asking for you to let me know here if you would buy this game. Through the years, EotB has been talked about, and everyone is hoping it will get released. There are a few protos out there along with a few 'copies' that a few lucky personnel were able to obtain. Now I am trying to reach out and see what the market really will do for this game. Yes, the economy still sucks, and perhaps it is bad timing for a game like this. But it is still something that would be a year out before they could be mailed out (or at least that is my opinion). At this time, please just post if you would like to buy one, and if you do have opinions on the price, please be kind to post the opinions but let's try not to flame the topic too much. Is this a pipe dream? Possibly. However, if the slot of 50 games could get filled, and the list is solid, I think this could happen. I know what my stance is out there on this game. I've mentioned multiple times I would like to see it. Relief Pitcher is another one I would love to see, but obviously a few people have issues plopping down the cash for a sports title. I think EotB is in a different category. It is an RPG, it is an elite title that people would like to see. I think the market is out there for this title, but I would like this thread to prove that. So please take the time, sign up for which version of cart you'd be interested in, and make some comments. Keep in mind this thread could be the tell-all when it comes to if we will see this game or not. There are people watching this to determine if it is worth pursuing this at all.

Lets get the dust blown off this proto and get it out there for the market! icon_smile.gif

Here's the plan:

It has been talked about, and I think a run of 50 carts will be doable. This is something that has been discussed before, but we need a buyer list now. With the extent of this game's elusiveness, a 50 cart run would be really nice. Those that want a copy of this game, the collectors and the fans, this will be the first chance for most of us. So here's what the proposed idea is:

60 cart run.

40 carts are copies of Eye of the Beholder. Plain ol' carts, no flash, no extras, no box, etc. Just a plain copy of a working EotB Lynx game with save capability.

20 carts: Eye of The Beholder Extreme Limited Edition.
This run of 10 games will have multiple extras, and will come at a higher price. This will be the Lynx's premiere run of games. Think of this set as the CGE release that is really expensive to get now. Being that there are only 10 copies of this version of the game, it would have the best collecting value of all released Atari Lynx games.
What I was thinking about on this version, is something like some other limited releases that hit the market in the past years (Was it QB for Atari 2600 that came in a wooden box or something). Think along the lines of the Thrust edition that came boxed with the footpedal, stickers, and other stuff.

I think these 10 games could be the same type of carts as the other 40. However, I believe they should have a limited (ie different) label on the cart. Obviously they need to be numbered as well. I believe those that release it should sign it as well. Kind of a nice unique touch. The Extreme Limited Edition should also have a very high quality box, manual, some type of case to protect the game in, etc. Perhaps even a poster like the other Lynx games have. the price would be much more, however, to a collector, I think these would sellout first (and very quickly).

Price: This is generally the sticky point for most people. Especially with the economy. However... keep in mind a few things:
1. The going rate right now for all new releases: $49.99 (There isn't a lot of profit margin there either)
2. You will have a year or so to start saving up.
3. This is probably the most desired game for the Lynx. Period.
4. It will be the most costly game to reproduce.
5. This run is very limited and has not been offered before. Obviously who knows if it will be offered again.
6. The price to reproduce these carts will be more expensive (for example: The costs for the chips, the 512k board, etc)

That being said:
Price for the 40 cart run of a plain cart: $100
Price for the Extreme Limited Edition cart run of only 10 carts: $200

So... with all of that... let's start off the list. Given that you have over a year to prepare... and to pay... what do you say? Which version are you interested in?

40 Cart run buyer list
1. Eric DeLee
2. dantheratman
3. ls650
4. atarian63
5 remowilliams
6 rygar
7 4ever2600
8 hellfire -Digital Press
9 vintagegamecrazy--Digit Press
10 Isogoed
11 Shawn Jefferson
12 chris_lynx1989
13 Mendon
14 streps
15 jaguar_fan
16 TrekMD
17 T (Digit Press)
18 Wraith Storm
19. pixeljunkie
20. chiba3010
21. BuddyBuddies
22. ATM55-DigitPress
23 matashen
24 108 Stars
25 SwedenLynxer
26 DarkLord
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40


20 Cart Extreme Limited Edition buyer list:
1 Eric DeLee
2 dantheratman
3 Sauron
4 shadow460
5 gambler172
6 STGuy1040
7 Lord Thag
8 rygar
9 tonyvortex--Digit Press
10 nonner242
11 Marc Oberhäuser
12 chris_lynx1989
13 Atari_Falcon
14 im_reg
15 TrekMD
16 Atari Smeghead
17 ianoid (Digit Press)
18 coreycorey2000 (Digit Press)
19 the.golden.ax
20 swlovinist--DigitPress * NOTE Original slot was reserved for me. I don't need two, so will give that up.

Post what you want. I'll edit the list, and we can keep all discussion here. I'll post this over at Digit Press later on. Spread the word if you want. I have a feeling there is a desire for this game, and I believe people will support this title.


1. how complete is the proto?
2. Yeah... My question as well.
Does it have music and sound FX? Is the portion of the game that is there fairly polished?

The proto that will be cloned is quoted as being 100% complete. No bugs, nor graphical bugs/glitches in gameplay, or controls. Runs very smoothly. Better than most Atari/Telegames games that were released late or released as reproductions. EotB has music and more.

3. What about a manual for the Regular Edition?
This could be a possibility.



Thanks!

[roushimsx]

how complete is the proto?

[Wraith Storm]

how complete is the proto?

Yeah... My question as well.
Does it have music and sound FX? Is the portion of the game that is there fairly polished?

I would certainly be interested but need to know a bit more before I say for certain.

[tonyvortex]

i would be very interested in the limited one.

[EricDeLee]

Please keep in mind a few things in regards to this thread...

1. I don't own the proto. I am not the one cloning the proto nor the one that will be distributing the proto.
I am essentially just doing a bit of legwork to prove that this game has a market out there and that we can easily reach the 50 cart mark.

2. This thread may be viewed (actually will be veiwed) by those that own the proto that will be copied/cloned. He/she may eventually pipe in and make a few comments. I can't guarantee that nor can I guarantee that the prices are set in stone.

I believe the $100 cart option is a firm price.
The Extreme Limited Edition may be less, but I don't see it costing any more than $200.



Questions asked by a few: how complete is the proto?
That is a valid question. This is NOT the demo that was released online. This is not the demo that simply showed screenshots and recycled through them. This is the real deal, as complete as you are going to get. very playable, very long, etc etc.

The true owner could shed more light than I can. But it is basically a copy of the proto we have all been waiting for. I'll add others to the list later on. I will add them according to when they post in the threads, and the times/dates I get PMs. If you do not want your name on the list and just want to be called 'unknown' let me know in the PM.

Thanks.

[hellfire]

Ill buy one of the regular ones

[Bojay1997]

Didn't someone offer to sell one of the several copies the original proto out there for like $1K a year or so ago on AtariAge? Why not just organize a group purchase and distribution like people have done for so many prototypes before? Why not make it available to everyone for a reasonable price instead of trying to create an overpriced version and a very overpriced limited version?

[vintagegamecrazy]

Put me down for a regular one since I have a year to save up.

[MrSparkle]

Hmm this is a tough call on one hand my lynx gets no loving because most of the games are godawful. On the other without some info on the proto i dont really know if its going to do much to fix that problem. Last time i bought a repro of a proto it became a shelfwarmer and nothing more so im a bit wary. Ill watch this for additional info on the proto you could say im a definite maybe.

[tom]

Hmm this is a tough call on one hand my lynx gets no loving because most of the games are godawful. .

You're joking, right?

Never say that unless you played any of these excellent Lynx titles:

Blue Lightning
Electrocop
Gates of Zendocon
Chips Challenge
Slime World
California Games
Klax
Warbirds
Awesome Golf
Checkered Flag
Block Out
Ms Pac-Man
Pac-Land
S.T.U.N. Runner
Shanghai
Ishido
Toki
Lemmings
Shadow of the Beast
Malibu Bikini Volleyball
Battlezone 2000
Switchblade II
Super Skweek
Rampart
Rygar
Steel Talons
Crystal Mines II
Robotron 2084
Joust
Desert Strike
Super Off Road
Qix
Raiden
Alpine Games

and there are many more I like personally like: Pinball Jam, Xybots, Roadblasters, Super Asteroids, Missile Command, Viking Child, Gordo 106, Fat Bobby, Ultimate Chess Challenge, Lynx Casino, Ninja Gaiden.....

That's pretty good going for a system with a library of only approx 80 titles.

[Wraith Storm]

Hmm this is a tough call on one hand my lynx gets no loving because most of the games are godawful.


You're joking, right?


I agree with Tom's list... and then some.

I always thought the Lynx was Atari's best system quality wise. It had a solid amount of games and a majority of those games were great! Similar to the NGPC in some ways. Sure the NGPC may have only had like 25 games released in the US but almost all of them are fantastic.

[MrSparkle]

wow thats quite a homework assignment i've played like 3 of those titles and they're among the lynx games that do occasionally get me to break it out. specifically i love the lynx version of rampart, and raiden is a pretty decent port too. I'll have to track down some of those others and check them out. I got one or two lots that had lynx games so i managed to get about 20 games, of those 20 maybe 2 are worth playing lol. Didnt mean to offend you as honestly i love my atari jaguar and nintendo virtual boy which are looked down upon by most everyone.

[EricDeLee]

Didn't someone offer to sell one of the several copies the original proto out there for like $1K a year or so ago on AtariAge? Why not just organize a group purchase and distribution like people have done for so many prototypes before? Why not make it available to everyone for a reasonable price instead of trying to create an overpriced version and a very overpriced limited version?


That has been tried. Multiple, multiple times.
Yet we are still at the same spot each time. Yes... it was sold a year ago or something like that. From what has been explained to me about making these games, there really isn't much in the the way of getting a profit. Add in the fact that you are buying more expensive boards for this 512K game, battery, etc... it adds up a bit. You also have to expect to pay a bit of a 'royalty' so to speak to the person that is supplying the cart. That is only fair. For the $100 cart, there isn't much of a profit at all. For the $200 cart... you are paying for the Limited Edition of the cart. It will shoot to the top of everyone's "I wish I had that game, I guess I'll wait to see if it pops up on ebay" list. :)

[EricDeLee]

Yeah... My question as well.
Does it have music and sound FX? Is the portion of the game that is there fairly polished?

I would certainly be interested but need to know a bit more before I say for certain.



Quick answers to the questions:

The proto that will be cloned is quoted as being 100% complete. No bugs, nor graphical bugs/glitches in gameplay, or controls. Runs very smoothly. Better than most Atari/Telegames games that were released late or released as reproductions. EotB has music and more.

:)

[mobiusclimber]

Is this the same Eye of the Beholder as has been seen on SNES, PC, Sega CD...? Cuz if so, $5 would be too much to ask for a cart of that crap. XD

[Bojay1997]

That has been tried. Multiple, multiple times.
Yet we are still at the same spot each time. Yes... it was sold a year ago or something like that. From what has been explained to me about making these games, there really isn't much in the the way of getting a profit. Add in the fact that you are buying more expensive boards for this 512K game, battery, etc... it adds up a bit. You also have to expect to pay a bit of a 'royalty' so to speak to the person that is supplying the cart. That is only fair. For the $100 cart, there isn't much of a profit at all. For the $200 cart... you are paying for the Limited Edition of the cart. It will shoot to the top of everyone's "I wish I had that game, I guess I'll wait to see if it pops up on ebay" list. :)

It has actually been tried and done very successfully on numerous occasions with other games. It shouldn't matter to the owner of the cart whether 50 are sold or 500 are sold, so long as the profit is the same. Why not partner with a company or person who has done this before like a B&C or the folks at Atari Age or Songbird Productions to make this a release that everyone who is interested can get instead of playing games and creating collectibles that only ten people can own? I'm assuming this isn't even a properly licensed release, so why should people pay $100 or $200 for what is really just a reproduction of a 512K game?

[icbrkr]

Rob Fulop, is that you?

</sarcasm>

I would be interested around the 40-50 range, not 100.

[MachineGex]

$100 for a repro (cart only) is way too high. icbrkr is right, $40-50 is a good range. Why not release 100@$50 instead of 50 @$100. That way, it is open to more people at a better price.

Look at te quality that is out there on the NES repro sites, complete games(box, inserts, instructions) are going at no more than $50-60.

[T]

I would buy one of the normal ones

[GrandAmChandler]

I'd buy one for $40-50 but not $100, way too high.

[PSP509]

Got any other details on this?Sounds cool,is there going to be a manual?I love a manual,man.

[Wraith Storm]

Go ahead and sing me up for one of the regular ones. It's a bit much, but I can't pass on the chance to play this :)

[PSP509]

Go ahead and sing me up for one of the regular ones. It's a bit much, but I can't pass on the chance to play this :)

It seems many here are skeptical and critical of Eric here,why?You act like he is a liar or Bernie Madoff or something,why?Is he leading you down the primrose path here?He must be,you're all so cynical of this even being offered above .01¢ retail,why is that?Do you guys know the true cost to make JUST ONE of these carts to begin with?It isn't cheap!

[PSP509]

$100 for a repro (cart only) is way too high. icbrkr is right, $40-50 is a good range. Why not release 100@$50 instead of 50 @$100. That way, it is open to more people at a better price.

Look at te quality that is out there on the NES repro sites, complete games(box, inserts, instructions) are going at no more than $50-60.
You aren't living in reality guy!It can't be done.Sure,in Fantasyland that is all the rage there.The VirtualBoy came in full color there too,I guess.

[icbrkr]

You aren't living in reality guy!It can't be done.Sure,in Fantasyland that is all the rage there.The VirtualBoy came in full color there too,I guess.

I think a lot of us on this forums has picked up homebrews at one point or another and anyone with access to Google can see an average homebrew, regardless of system, sits at about $40-50.

3 posts and trolling? Usually you're supposed to wait until you have quite a few more posts before you start on that.

[GrandAmChandler]

These are your first three posts here. Now according to my records you were referred to here by your friend EricDeeLee which is great, welcome to the forums! Obviously you guys have some connection, and that's cool I understand that. Let's examine your posts.


Got any other details on this?Sounds cool,is there going to be a manual?I love a manual,man.

Okay cool good start, needs some spaces but we can live.


It seems many here are skeptical and critical of Eric here,why?You act like he is a liar or Bernie Madoff or something,why?Is he leading you down the primrose path here?He must be,you're all so cynical of this even being offered above .01¢ retail,why is that?Do you guys know the true cost to make JUST ONE of these carts to begin with?It isn't cheap!

Okay personal attacks on multiple established members who voiced their opinion, check.


You aren't living in reality guy!It can't be done.Sure,in Fantasyland that is all the rage there.The VirtualBoy came in full color there too,I guess.

Personally insulting an established member here. Not a good start. Please review the FAQ here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/faq.php) and please introduce yourself here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5)

-GAC-

[MachineGex]

You aren't living in reality guy!It can't be done.Sure,in Fantasyland that is all the rage there.The VirtualBoy came in full color there too,I guess.

What can't be done? I don't mind being wrong, but not sure what you are talking about. I was saying most games come out at the $50-60 range for COMPLETE games. Example: Bagger Prince, Wukong, Happy Camper, Ditka Football, Airball, etc. These games are not fantasy, they are all top quality repros.

I own all of them. I did not pay more than $50-60 for any of them. Just asking why a loose copy is going to be sold at double the price?
It is a fair question that you did not even address? Also, the "space bar" is your friend. ;)

[FABombjoy]

As much as I'd like to buy this, $100 is too much for cart only, but then to charge an additional $100 for some paperwork & extras under the guise of exclusivity is a bit much. The gross income on this, as it stands, is $8000. I can't help but feel that buyers would be amortizing the ROM-holders estimated devaluation based on public release of the ROM, and then some. I don't have a problem with that so much as I do paying 100-200 for what is ostensibly a bootleg, of which any editions hold no real legitimate premium status due to the unauthorized nature of this release.

[coreycorey2000]

Sign me up for the limited edition one!

[EricDeLee]

Hello again...

I'll be posting an update to the list shortly.
Let me start off with a few things:

The price was someones "rates" so to speak just to get things rolling. High Expectations? Yes. I would say so. But in order to even get the ball rolling for this, I had to show that there is a market out there for the game.

Now... with that being said: Once I showed there is a market (For example: 19 Limited Editions are ear-marked and spoken for ($3800) and 18 Regular editions are spoken for ($1800).... it still seems like someone doesn't want to step up and keep that ball rolling. That is a bit dissappointing, but I won't give up either as I believe I may have a few other options still available to me, one that doesn't come with a million-kajillion dollar pricetag. The list is still here (and at AtariAge). It could very well still be more than the pipedream it was when it first started.

As of this writing/this post there are only the following numbers left of each edition:

regular edition: 21 carts left
Limited Edition: 1 cart left

Over half of the 60 cart run has been sold....

[Bojay1997]

Hello again...

I'll be posting an update to the list shortly.
Let me start off with a few things:

The price was someones "rates" so to speak just to get things rolling. High Expectations? Yes. I would say so. But in order to even get the ball rolling for this, I had to show that there is a market out there for the game.

Now... with that being said: Once I showed there is a market (For example: 19 Limited Editions are ear-marked and spoken for ($3800) and 18 Regular editions are spoken for ($1800).... it still seems like someone doesn't want to step up and keep that ball rolling. That is a bit dissappointing, but I won't give up either as I believe I may have a few other options still available to me, one that doesn't come with a million-kajillion dollar pricetag. The list is still here (and at AtariAge). It could very well still be more than the pipedream it was when it first started.

As of this writing/this post there are only the following numbers left of each edition:

regular edition: 21 carts left
Limited Edition: 1 cart left

Over half of the 60 cart run has been sold....

I don't want to be a jerk, but what exactly are you talking about? Nothing has been sold at this point. All you did is take a survey of what some people might be willing to pay if the item you offered was made available. Having said that, if you speak to some folks who have actually done a release like this before, you will probably find that at least some percentage (as much as 15-20% based on anecdotal evidence from other similar projects) won't follow through due to finances, loss of interest or a variety of other reasons. Acting as though this is money in the bank or a guarantee is a big mistake.

The whole process is really pretty simple. Identify who owns a copy (and we all know there is more than one), negotiate and agree on a price and then purchase the prototype. If you can't pay for it yourself, I'm sure there are a couple of other people who might be willing to go in with you on the purchase. Having said that, there is no reason to base the purchase price of the prototype on some distribution plan down the line. As you know, it was made available for around $1K a year or two ago. I'm sure it hasn't appreciated in value that much in the interim.

Once that's done, work with someone with expertise in releasing Lynx titles, designing packaging, etc...As someone else noted, there is no point in doing a "limited edition" release of a game you have no legal right to distribute. You can easily sell 100 copies of this at $50 each. If you follow this approach, not only will you end up owning the game you have wanted all along, but you can do a service for the community and actually make some money in the process.

[EricDeLee]

Yep.... that is a concern.
Yet... it is still a low run cart. Lynx collectors like myself will like something like that. But that is my opinion.

Yes... the ROM might get released... somone may put it out there. Couple of viewpoints on that: It gets out to the community. :) I think that is a plus. But they still won't have a cart version that can save its game. That is the great point about this release. This will give some people a chance to add a special cart to their collection.

Collectors will like that aspect... and over 40 or so people seem to agree with me thus far.

Last but not least: I believe in some cases this game has been held back by greed. Those that have held it back... they/he/she whoever.... knows exactly what I am talking about.

The message to that person or those people:

"If greed and money is your reason behind keeping things to yourself: use this as the opportunity to cash in. There is plenty of profit here with this release, and we are willing to support that profit right now. This thread and list is proof that the market is there and will support a run. Please push forward. Don't lose credibility now!!"

[EricDeLee]

As much as I'd like to buy this, $100 is too much for cart only, but then to charge an additional $100 for some paperwork & extras under the guise of exclusivity is a bit much. The gross income on this, as it stands, is $8000. I can't help but feel that buyers would be amortizing the ROM-holders estimated devaluation based on public release of the ROM, and then some. I don't have a problem with that so much as I do paying 100-200 for what is ostensibly a bootleg, of which any editions hold no real legitimate premium status due to the unauthorized nature of this release.


I don't want to be a jerk, but what exactly are you talking about? Nothing has been sold at this point. All you did is take a survey of what some people might be willing to pay if the item you offered was made available. Having said that, if you speak to some folks who have actually done a release like this before, you will probably find that at least some percentage (as much as 15-20% based on anecdotal evidence from other similar projects) won't follow through due to finances, loss of interest or a variety of other reasons. Acting as though this is money in the bank or a guarantee is a big mistake.

The whole process is really pretty simple. Identify who owns a copy (and we all know there is more than one), negotiate and agree on a price and then purchase the prototype. If you can't pay for it yourself, I'm sure there are a couple of other people who might be willing to go in with you on the purchase. Having said that, there is no reason to base the purchase price of the prototype on some distribution plan down the line. As you know, it was made available for around $1K a year or two ago. I'm sure it hasn't appreciated in value that much in the interim.

Once that's done, work with someone with expertise in releasing Lynx titles, designing packaging, etc...As someone else noted, there is no point in doing a "limited edition" release of a game you have no legal right to distribute. You can easily sell 100 copies of this at $50 each. If you follow this approach, not only will you end up owning the game you have wanted all along, but you can do a service for the community and actually make some money in the process.


This is not my 'money making' scheme.
It is exactly what you said: a survery

Pretty much this list is used to show that there is a market and the item will sell. Basically 40 out of 60 carts have been 'ear-marked' for purchase. I don't care to make a profit, nor do I care to actually have multiple version of the cart. It is simply a marketing ploy to make it more interesting to the person who owns the proto. Yes, there are multiple version out there. I've been after it for a while now. I've been after the 5 clones as well. Some people love leading you in endless circles while you chase after their unicorn. I'm tired of doing that.

I posted this thread here and over at AtariAge. Within a week... 40 carts have been 'virtually' spoken for. I'd say by mid March it could be sold out.

The whole point is to show that their are people out there that will support this. I'm trying to show that people will buy this game rather than some sports tile or less known game. I'm showing that it should not be tossed to the side... the market is there. Is it money in the bank? No. But neither were Nike Air Jordans when Nike released them.

Just because you made 100 copies will not mean it will sell out. But, it is possible that it will sell out as well.

I'm just trying to help out the community from the level I can...
I'd help out more if I could, but for right now this is all I can do. I hope you can understand and I didn't come off as an ass or something as that is not my intention

[Bojay1997]

This is not my 'money making' scheme.
It is exactly what you said: a survery

Pretty much this list is used to show that there is a market and the item will sell. Basically 40 out of 60 carts have been 'ear-marked' for purchase. I don't care to make a profit, nor do I care to actually have multiple version of the cart. It is simply a marketing ploy to make it more interesting to the person who owns the proto. Yes, there are multiple version out there. I've been after it for a while now. I've been after the 5 clones as well. Some people love leading you in endless circles while you chase after their unicorn. I'm tired of doing that.

I posted this thread here and over at AtariAge. Within a week... 40 carts have been 'virtually' spoken for. I'd say by mid March it could be sold out.

The whole point is to show that their are people out there that will support this. I'm trying to show that people will buy this game rather than some sports tile or less known game. I'm showing that it should not be tossed to the side... the market is there. Is it money in the bank? No. But neither were Nike Air Jordans when Nike released them.

Just because you made 100 copies will not mean it will sell out. But, it is possible that it will sell out as well.

I'm just trying to help out the community from the level I can...
I'd help out more if I could, but for right now this is all I can do. I hope you can understand and I didn't come off as an ass or something as that is not my intention

While I applaud your efforts to accomplish this goal, I stand by my feeling that you have gone about this the wrong way. The owner of the prototype should not be involved in the secondary business of what happens with distribution down the road, particularly since this person isn't even willing to come forward and say that this will actually happen if you somehow put together enough people and money to make this guy happy. I guess I don't put much weight behind a survey of this type, particularly since several people on your list indicated some hesitation on the price and some hopes that it would actually be less than they were committing to pay. Until you actually have a Paypal account full of $7,000, all you really have is a list half full of names. Unlike Nike, I would assume you don't have millions of dollars on hand to risk if people flake for some reason.

Have you actually asked the owner how much he would sell the prototype for? If he's not going to sell, you need to move on and pursue another lead.

Have you tried contacting the original programmer or development team? You might be surprised at how willing some of these folks are to help see their work released.

I realize a search like this can be frustrating, but that's why it's so important to work with established leaders in the Lynx releasing community who have the tools to make this a reality. If you haven't already, I would really encourage you to talk to Carl Forhan or the folks over at AtariAge who have done this a few times and might be able to point you in the right direction.

[Chainclaw]

I'm confused by the process you are going through to do this. Why not get a usual Lynx homebrew/beta/whatever release through Songbird?

[EricDeLee]

I'm confused by the process you are going through to do this. Why not get a usual Lynx homebrew/beta/whatever release through Songbird?

Anyone following the EotB scenes or issues and threads in the past 3 years will know all of that has been attempted.
:)

I've tried that, and would actually prefer a release through Songbird. I respect Carl a lot and have bought games from him. He produces a great product.

I'm going to just go forward with this. I want this released... but if this does not work this way... I'll pursue a few different angles on this. :) I really do appreciate all comments. I do know this, if I have any say on a release, I will follow this list.

[Daria]

I'm not an Atari collector, which is probably the problem here. But as an RPG collector I couldn't justify paying $100 (or $200) for a game that I already own for two other platforms. I'll echo the opinion that I would bite at half the cost, just because normally this release would be right up my ally. Ie. An excuse to experience a new (to me) system (lynx).

I also think this survey should be taken with a grain of salt. It's easy to say "Yeah I'd buy that ... hypothetically." but ponying up real cash is a completely different story.

[PSP509]

You know,I don't know what all the hubub is about here,what gives??This will be an unofficial/official release of a completed game abandoned by Atari Corp. in 1995.It will be released as a 'Demo Game' with the express permission of John Skruch of the former Atari Corp.Since it was abandoned and 'found' by certain people,it can be released as a 'Demo' only.Any former Atari hardware or software can be released like this by only 3 people in the world though!Technically,this WILL be 'official'.My 2¢.

[tom]

I would love one, but not until next year, so for me it's out of the question...but there's always ebay

[Bojay1997]

You know,I don't know what all the hubub is about here,what gives??This will be an unofficial/official release of a completed game abandoned by Atari Corp. in 1995.It will be released as a 'Demo Game' with the express permission of John Skruch of the former Atari Corp.Since it was abandoned and 'found' by certain people,it can be released as a 'Demo' only.Any former Atari hardware or software can be released like this by only 3 people in the world though!Technically,this WILL be 'official'.My 2¢.

If this was not a licensed IP, you might have more of an argument, but the worldwide rights to Dungeons and Dragons, as well as the story rights to the universe in which this game exists are owned by Wizards of the Coast and you can't release a product without a license from them, no matter how old or abandoned. Similarly, the code itself is the property of whatever company created it. Obviously, there are lots of products bought and sold here and on a lot of other collector sites that aren't licensed, but generally, they are done on a cost plus basis which tends to avoid a lot of scrutiny from rights holders. As Songbird and other entities have shown, it is possible to get a license from even huge companies to do things like this, you just have to be professional about it and up-front with them about how many you are making and what the money involved is going to be.

[RASK1904]

So a guy is gonna pay a guy our money so he can get a prototype then to pay us back he's gonna give us copies.? Then he keeps the prototype? This reminds me of a plan I had when I was in 2nd grade to get me and all my friends a pair of those black fingerless studded gloves! All we had to do was pool our lunch money every week and buy 1 pair a week. I get the first pair. Guess what that never happened but I was so excited I couldn't even sleep. Price is way to high!
Dream baby Dream!

[Bojay1997]

So a guy is gonna pay a guy our money so he can get a prototype then to pay us back he's gonna give us copies.? Then he keeps the prototype? This reminds me of a plan I had when I was in 2nd grade to get me and all my friends a pair of those black fingerless studded gloves! All we had to do was pool our lunch money every week and buy 1 pair a week. I get the first pair. Guess what that never happened but I was so excited I couldn't even sleep. Price is way to high!
Dream baby Dream!

Pretty much.

[Blanka789]

I'll take a regular one as well.

[Xian042]

I'd be down for a cart if it was in the $50 range.

[swlovinist]

Sign me up for an extreme limited edition cart

Thanks, John

[EricDeLee]

Updated

[EricDeLee]

So a guy is gonna pay a guy our money so he can get a prototype then to pay us back he's gonna give us copies.? Then he keeps the prototype? This reminds me of a plan I had when I was in 2nd grade to get me and all my friends a pair of those black fingerless studded gloves! All we had to do was pool our lunch money every week and buy 1 pair a week. I get the first pair. Guess what that never happened but I was so excited I couldn't even sleep. Price is way to high!
Dream baby Dream!

Nope... not even close.

[EricDeLee]

Just a quick reply to this thread... so that it does not die here....
There have been a few changes in the plan (and more then likely it will change a few more times).

Goal: is to still produce actual carts for this game... along with the limited version

Other goal: secure EOTB prototype for myself, so that I can deal with the proceedings rather than going through someone who does not care too much about the Lynx community.

Final Goal: Do whatever I can to lower the price now that we are not dealing with someone just looking at dollar signs.

Side goals: Throw a few surprises out there for the Lynx community! I am working on something extra aside from the two cart runs (nothing like a watered-down version of the cart... so please don't think you need to take your name off of the list).

Last note: If you have not signed up... please do so. Now that I have secured the actual cart, I am considering on pushing this thing a bit ahead of schedule. Maybe not by a lot though. Remember... there are not a lot of carts left!

[InsaneDavid]

Pay attention kids...


Other goal: secure EOTB prototype for myself

[EricDeLee]

Once that's done, work with someone with expertise in releasing Lynx titles, designing packaging, etc...As someone else noted, there is no point in doing a "limited edition" release of a game you have no legal right to distribute. You can easily sell 100 copies of this at $50 each. If you follow this approach, not only will you end up owning the game you have wanted all along, but you can do a service for the community and actually make some money in the process.

I still like the idea of the limited release! Yet... some of the words you spoke... they ring very true. Something like this could possibly happen. Not really sure. But the Limited versions... I'd like to do something special with those!

[EricDeLee]

Pay attention kids...

What is that in reference to? I did go back and re-read that post. I messed up a bit on how I worded it. Let me make a few things clear though, especially after someone went on the attack over at another thread and accused me of trying to 'trick someone into releasing the ROM of EOTB'.


FACT:
1. This thread started as a 'survey' to show that there is a market for collectors wanting an EOTB lynx cart.
2. This thread was started under the assumption of "if you show me a market for this game, we can more than likely make it happen".
3. After backing down from this, I attempted to secure the prototype myself to avoid the hassels that was involved with the person I was tlaking to.
4. I want the prototype for my collection, for the general purposes of having the prototype in my collection.
5. I now own a copy of EOTB. The full game with a save feature.

FALSE Crap/Accusations:
1. This is a money making scheme to trick the owner of the proto
2. this is a scheme
3. I have no intentions to release this game
4. I plan to throw this in my closet and never let anyone play.
5. (this one bugs me a bit) I plan to use the potential buyer's money to purchase the Proto for my own collection. (That is just wrong)

Hopefully that clears a few things. If things get modified... they get modified. I'm doing the best that I can from my level, and I'm trying to give back to the community.

I hope most of you can understand that.

[Bojay1997]

What is that in reference to? I did go back and re-read that post. I messed up a bit on how I worded it. Let me make a few things clear though, especially after someone went on the attack over at another thread and accused me of trying to 'trick someone into releasing the ROM of EOTB'.


FACT:
1. This thread started as a 'survey' to show that there is a market for collectors wanting an EOTB lynx cart.
2. This thread was started under the assumption of "if you show me a market for this game, we can more than likely make it happen".
3. After backing down from this, I attempted to secure the prototype myself to avoid the hassels that was involved with the person I was tlaking to.
4. I want the prototype for my collection, for the general purposes of having the prototype in my collection.
5. I now own a copy of EOTB. The full game with a save feature.

FALSE Crap/Accusations:
1. This is a money making scheme to trick the owner of the proto
2. this is a scheme
3. I have no intentions to release this game
4. I plan to throw this in my closet and never let anyone play.
5. (this one bugs me a bit) I plan to use the potential buyer's money to purchase the Proto for my own collection. (That is just wrong)

Hopefully that clears a few things. If things get modified... they get modified. I'm doing the best that I can from my level, and I'm trying to give back to the community.

I hope most of you can understand that.

And this is exactly why I believe you have no credibility. Do you not understand that rather than clarifying and responding to the comments by Rask and InsaneDavid, you just confirmed what both of them said. You've just admitted that one of the main reasons you did this was to own the prototype yourself. I'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong with that because obviously that's all you've really wanted for several years anyway based on your posts, but it's not exactly the same place you started from allegedly wanting to see this released to the community. Moreover, whether you collect the money before you buy the prototype or after, you're still taking money from others to pay for or reimburse you for this prototype. Again, nothing necessarily wrong with that from a business perspective, but also not what you claimed in your previous posts. Now that you own the prototype, why are you planning on charging $100 and $200 for copies if not to make significant amounts of money? After all, we both know it won't cost more than $30 for materials and manufacturing and $50 a copy would still give you a healthy profit.

[EricDeLee]

You are freaking insane.
I have always wanted the damn proto and have been after it for years.

Your words are nothing but assumptions and lies.

When the carts area available... it will not be for the freaking $100 or $200 amount I was quoted. I know what it will cost, now that I have talked to the right people. YOU are sitting here trying to bust my balls and accuse me of BS. All I am freaking try to do... is get this out to others at a fair price. You have no clue what I was trying in PMs... and what my goals are. You are falsely throwing out accusations without knowing what I was really trying to do for the community. I'm not money hungry, I'm not trying to make a million kajillion dollars. just trying to get the game out there....

are you ready to jump off of my back now?
I haven't done anything to you... yet you throw out false information.

[khzmk]

(Copied from my thread at Atari Age)


Eye of The Beholder Lynx carts....

Here's the deal. I do not own this, yet I am asking for a serious list of buyers. I'm not asking for a deposit, or anything silly like that. What I am asking is for honest opinions and Eventually what I would like to do is have a LIST of potential buyers to show that the market is there to produce a limited run of EotB. So this is like a market survey, so-to-speak, to basically either prove that a list of people out there want this cart. Or it will be the opposite: I will learn that perhaps there just is not enough interest to support a release of this game.

So, just like we do in the other forums with Atari 2600 carts and hacks and prototype repros... I'm asking for you to let me know here if you would buy this game. Through the years, EotB has been talked about, and everyone is hoping it will get released. There are a few protos out there along with a few 'copies' that a few lucky personnel were able to obtain. Now I am trying to reach out and see what the market really will do for this game. Yes, the economy still sucks, and perhaps it is bad timing for a game like this. But it is still something that would be a year out before they could be mailed out (or at least that is my opinion). At this time, please just post if you would like to buy one, and if you do have opinions on the price, please be kind to post the opinions but let's try not to flame the topic too much. Is this a pipe dream? Possibly. However, if the slot of 50 games could get filled, and the list is solid, I think this could happen. I know what my stance is out there on this game. I've mentioned multiple times I would like to see it. Relief Pitcher is another one I would love to see, but obviously a few people have issues plopping down the cash for a sports title. I think EotB is in a different category. It is an RPG, it is an elite title that people would like to see. I think the market is out there for this title, but I would like this thread to prove that. So please take the time, sign up for which version of cart you'd be interested in, and make some comments. Keep in mind this thread could be the tell-all when it comes to if we will see this game or not. There are people watching this to determine if it is worth pursuing this at all.

Lets get the dust blown off this proto and get it out there for the market! icon_smile.gif

Here's the plan:

It has been talked about, and I think a run of 50 carts will be doable. This is something that has been discussed before, but we need a buyer list now. With the extent of this game's elusiveness, a 50 cart run would be really nice. Those that want a copy of this game, the collectors and the fans, this will be the first chance for most of us. So here's what the proposed idea is:

60 cart run.

40 carts are copies of Eye of the Beholder. Plain ol' carts, no flash, no extras, no box, etc. Just a plain copy of a working EotB Lynx game with save capability.

20 carts: Eye of The Beholder Extreme Limited Edition.
This run of 10 games will have multiple extras, and will come at a higher price. This will be the Lynx's premiere run of games. Think of this set as the CGE release that is really expensive to get now. Being that there are only 10 copies of this version of the game, it would have the best collecting value of all released Atari Lynx games.
What I was thinking about on this version, is something like some other limited releases that hit the market in the past years (Was it QB for Atari 2600 that came in a wooden box or something). Think along the lines of the Thrust edition that came boxed with the footpedal, stickers, and other stuff.

I think these 10 games could be the same type of carts as the other 40. However, I believe they should have a limited (ie different) label on the cart. Obviously they need to be numbered as well. I believe those that release it should sign it as well. Kind of a nice unique touch. The Extreme Limited Edition should also have a very high quality box, manual, some type of case to protect the game in, etc. Perhaps even a poster like the other Lynx games have. the price would be much more, however, to a collector, I think these would sellout first (and very quickly).

Price: This is generally the sticky point for most people. Especially with the economy. However... keep in mind a few things:
1. The going rate right now for all new releases: $49.99 (There isn't a lot of profit margin there either)
2. You will have a year or so to start saving up.
3. This is probably the most desired game for the Lynx. Period.
4. It will be the most costly game to reproduce.
5. This run is very limited and has not been offered before. Obviously who knows if it will be offered again.
6. The price to reproduce these carts will be more expensive (for example: The costs for the chips, the 512k board, etc)

That being said:
Price for the 40 cart run of a plain cart: $100
Price for the Extreme Limited Edition cart run of only 10 carts: $200

So... with all of that... let's start off the list. Given that you have over a year to prepare... and to pay... what do you say? Which version are you interested in?

40 Cart run buyer list
1. Eric DeLee
2. dantheratman
3. ls650
4. atarian63
5 remowilliams
6 rygar
7 4ever2600
8 hellfire -Digital Press
9 vintagegamecrazy--Digit Press
10 Isogoed
11 Shawn Jefferson
12 chris_lynx1989
13 Mendon
14 streps
15 jaguar_fan
16 TrekMD
17 T (Digit Press)
18 Wraith Storm
19. pixeljunkie
20. chiba3010
21. BuddyBuddies
22. ATM55-DigitPress
23 matashen
24 108 Stars
25 SwedenLynxer
26 DarkLord
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40


20 Cart Extreme Limited Edition buyer list:
1 Eric DeLee
2 dantheratman
3 Sauron
4 shadow460
5 gambler172
6 STGuy1040
7 Lord Thag
8 rygar
9 tonyvortex--Digit Press
10 nonner242
11 Marc Oberhäuser
12 chris_lynx1989
13 Atari_Falcon
14 im_reg
15 TrekMD
16 Atari Smeghead
17 ianoid (Digit Press)
18 coreycorey2000 (Digit Press)
19 the.golden.ax
20 swlovinist--DigitPress * NOTE Original slot was reserved for me. I don't need two, so will give that up.

Post what you want. I'll edit the list, and we can keep all discussion here. I'll post this over at Digit Press later on. Spread the word if you want. I have a feeling there is a desire for this game, and I believe people will support this title.


1. how complete is the proto?
2. Yeah... My question as well.
Does it have music and sound FX? Is the portion of the game that is there fairly polished?

The proto that will be cloned is quoted as being 100% complete. No bugs, nor graphical bugs/glitches in gameplay, or controls. Runs very smoothly. Better than most Atari/Telegames games that were released late or released as reproductions. EotB has music and more.

3. What about a manual for the Regular Edition?
This could be a possibility.



Thanks!



I came across this thread a few years too late it seems. Will you be making another lot of these? I am interested in purchasing the Limited Edition one, but will settle for the $40.00 one as well if you are making another lot.

[Wraith Storm]

I came across this thread a few years too late it seems. Will you be making another lot of these? I am interested in purchasing the Limited Edition one, but will settle for the $40.00 one as well if you are making another lot.

I don't believe EricDeLee ever went through with this, at least not around here he didn't. Maybe the guys at Atari Age could tell you more.

Regardless, I too, would still like to see this get released. The Lynx is an amazing handheld.

[Bojay1997]

I don't believe EricDeLee ever went through with this, at least not around here he didn't. Maybe the guys at Atari Age could tell you more.

Regardless, I too, would still like to see this get released. The Lynx is an amazing handheld.

Actually he did. I believe all of the sales were on the Atari Age forums. He has vanished from Atari Age in recent months and at least one member was talking about releasing the ROM, but I haven't heard much update on that lately either.

[Wraith Storm]

I hate that I missed out on the physical release of it.

Once he stopped posting here I assumed his plans of a physical release fell through. It would be neat to check out the ROM if and when it gets released, but to have the chance to actually play it on the Lynx would be awesome.

[tom]

Try Video 61, they still might have some.