RapeLay - Japanese "rape simulator" game

[Zap!]

For a brief window in the mid-2000s, video games became politicians' favorite piñata. Joe Lieberman and Ted Kennedy spoke out against 2004's JFK Reloaded, a game that let you re-enact the Kennedy assassination. The "Hot Coffee" modification to Grand Theft Auto—which allowed players to (poorly) simulate intercourse with in-game girlfriends—left Lieberman and Hillary Clinton in a huff in 2005. That same year, the Illinois Legislature (among many others) banned the sale of violent games to minors, with then-Gov. Rod Blagojevich sending a message to "the parents of Illinois" pointing out that "98 percent of the games considered suitable by the industry for teenagers contain graphic violence."

The last couple of years haven't been as fruitful for video game scolds. Jack Thompson, the longtime face of the anti-game-violence movement, was recently banned from practicing law in Florida. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals just ruled that a California law banning the sale of violent video games to minors was unconstitutional. There is a Wii in the White House. With America's pro-gaming forces gathering strength, crusading politicians must now journey beyond our shores to find games to rail against. Enter New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who has joined with the New York City Alliance Against Sexual Assault in calling for a stateside ban of a Japanese "rape simulator" game called RapeLay.


http://www.slate.com/id/2213073

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/2097085/2210730/2213072/090309_GAM_rapelay_TN.jpg

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm not in favor of government bans or anything of that sort but I do think that some games are just creatively irresponsible.

[RetroYoungen]

Wow. Just... wow. That's so wrong, just disgusting, just crude and way too far over the line. It's not tasteful, it's not "nice" in ANY way/shape/form.






I want it.

[Diosoth]

Rape is not porn. It is not desirable or appealing. I actually insulted an artist I once respected because he decided to start drawing rape pictures. Guess regular porn isn't enough for the guy anymore.

[ScourDX]

I remember hearing about this game when it was first released in April 2006. At that time everyone was ridicule GTA: SA hot coffee mod. I find it funny people now starting to notice this game after 2.5 years.

[Sonicwolf]

This is pretty sick. Where is the line? Im surprised there isnt a child molesting game. Its not far from that.

[Daria]

Eh. I'd play it.

Always what's the point of banning a game from another country?

[Aussie2B]

Known about it a long time. There's a good review about it here:

http://www.honestgamers.com/systems/content.php?review_id=4775&platform=PC&abr=PC&gametitle=RapeLay

Kinda silly to jump on it now. It's been around for years, and it would be pretty difficult to stop people from importing it (or finding and punishing people who've owned it a long time now). They also can't get very far policing it on the internet. Even if they try to keep Americans from hosting it, they can't control foreigners, nor can they easily figure out if Americans are downloading from said foreigners. Really, they can't get anywhere with this period because a few years back the Supreme Court overturned a law banning CG child pornography. As messed up as it is, there's nothing about the game that seems to be illegal for an adult to own and view, and with protection of freedom of speech on the internet, they can't go and get rid of everything just because children may access it. That's why child pornography is the only type of pornography they can crack down on because it's illegal for anyone at any age.

[Push Upstairs]

Something else to add to the "WTF Japan??" list.

[Aussie2B]

Haha, I can't believe they're talking about this on CNN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1KYB-8cNY

Never thought I'd see the day that they're talking about Japanese hentai games starring CG anime girls. :P

[The 1 2 P]

This was on gamepro.com a month or so ago. There was about to be a polical movement against it. The only thing they accomplished was getting it removed from amazon. It's still(unfortunately) readily available on ebay. And I agree that you won't be able to stop people from importing it. But still.....of all the wacky bizarre shit the Japanese are into, this has got to be by far the worse. It's even worse than tenticle porn with school girls. I guess the captain can sum it up best....

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr306/THE-1-2-P/FacePalm_picard.jpg

[unwinddesign]

People are horrified by this, but barely blink an eye at the hundreds of games where you gibb humans into gooey little bits.

I know the argument goes that rape is "psychologically fucked up" etc. etc. and that getting off it on is, well wrong, but I always thought killing people was worse. One life and all that shit.

Before anyone thinks I'm supporting this, I'm not. Not in the slightest. It's retarded. While funny that some idiot spent his time making it, it really doesn't need to exist. Nonetheless, there's a shitload of games that have lots of illegal behavior going on, a lot of which is worse than rape. FYI, I qualify "murder" as worse than rape. Even if you don't, it's definitely up there. So why flip a shit about this game? It's not realistic in the slightest, and it's just way too ridiculous to be taken seriously.

[Berserker]

I don't think it should be banned. It's certainly fucked up, but I don't think it's something we should consider taking seriously or even the notion of people taking it seriously over here in the States, or Canada, or Europe. It's not something that 99.9% of the population of any country in the west would find remotely interesting.

If anything, I think the only thing this represents is a certain inherently creepy aspect of Japanese culture that is utterly rape-obsessed. It's fucked up, but I seriously think it's a cultural thing.

[unwinddesign]

If anything, banning would give it more attention. I doubt most people had any idea this existed. Fuck, I play video games a lot, and I had no clue.

Now everyone will know, especially if there's a push to ban it. I can smell the eBay profits...

[Zap!]

If anything, banning would give it more attention. I doubt most people had any idea this existed. Fuck, I play video games a lot, and I had no clue.

Now everyone will know, especially if there's a push to ban it. I can smell the eBay profits...

eBay and Amazon banned it. Although legal in the US for now, no major online store carries it. It's almost impossible to find.

[Steve W]

Aren't there heaps of games like this in Japan? They act like Japan just came out with something new and bizarre, instead of creating a slew of horrible games throughout the years. Check out Something Awful's reviews, including RapeLay: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/hentai-game-reviews/

[otaku]

Hopefully it won't incite any violence towards women and will instead help curb such things. Shouldn't be banned as disgusting as it is but it was irresponsible of the company that made it to do so. Anyone who buys it has issues for sure. Pretty sad stuff :(

[c0ldb33r]

This is pretty sick. Where is the line? Im surprised there isnt a child molesting game. Its not far from that.
There are probably tons of them.

This game has been out for years. No one knew this game existed. By raising a stink about this game now, they're increasing the number of downloads or purchases this is getting tenfold.

[ScourDX]

You know what getting this game banned only allows more people to download them. I am pretty sure some kid will be downloading them via Torrent. If anything they should've kept this low profile.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's true that this isn't news. Rape simulators and various types of games/anime are not new. I've seen a few in my day and though I haven't played/seen this one I'd bet it's not the worst of the bunch, either. I think this can be summed up, though, by taking a look at A Clockwork Orange.

In the novel, the main character rapes a couple of ten year olds. In the movie adaptation, however, it's changed to consensual sex with older teens. This, I think, defines the difference. With a book, simple prose, it's just words. It's far less jarring because it really is "just a story." But when adapted to film, now you're dealing with something far more vivid and even in a movie as fucked up as A Clockwork Orange, not many people would be comfortable depicting a child rape scene. Especially since these girls would be played by actresses who are actually real people. I'm all for creative freedom but creative freedom comes paired with creative responsibility. And filming the scene as it was written would have been creatively irresponsible.

I'm convinced the only reason games/hentai like this can 'get away with it' is because it is "just a cartoon." It might be in bad taste but it has the same kind of defenses that the Clockwork novel would use.

I'll be perfectly honest. I think Manhunt pushes into creative irresponsibility, too. But, again, it's "just a cartoon...sort of." I guarantee that if CGI were capable of mimicking reality flawlessly then a game like Manhunt wouldn't be able find a market. Who'd want to play it if it were that real, right? I think the same thing goes for these rape simulators or hentai where the oldest female involved is a whopping 12 years old. If it got "too real" it ends up crossing that line into "what the fuck this is sick" to even the most dedicated supporters.

I'm sort of talking out of both ends of my mouth here. But what I'm trying to get at is that at some point an offensive concept is less offensive to the masses because of the limitations of the medium itself. When moved into a different medium, or when the limitations of a medium are removed from the equation, then all of a sudden something relatively innocent turns into something incredibly disturbing.

[c0ldb33r]

Omfg! The House On The Left Has A Vivid Horrible Rape Scene!!!

Let's All Get It!!!! *grabs Pitchforks And Fire*

[FxMercenary]

There are probably tons of them.

This game has been out for years. No one knew this game existed. By raising a stink about this game now, they're increasing the number of downloads or purchases this is getting tenfold.

just checked the torrent trackers, the interest on this one is up over 30 fold.

[heybtbm]

Welcome to 2 years ago. Doesn't anyone read Kotaku?

[MarioMania]

Wow, It only take a couple people to talk about this game, and it's getting shit load of hits because of this

[vintagegamecrazy]

That's sick and your all right, they shouldn't ban it because it'll only draw attention. Morally I'm opposed to this or GTA for that fact and don't play overloy violent games usually. I will play RE4, though it's violent, your out to kill evil. I will however not play a tasteless game like Manhunt for the same moral reasons I wouldn't play this rape game.

It's too bad that so many Japanese have to get off to this kind of stuff causing so many programmers to design this stuff.

[TonyTheTiger]

Omfg! The House On The Left Has A Vivid Horrible Rape Scene!!!

Let's All Get It!!!! *grabs Pitchforks And Fire*

That scene isn't celebrated, though. I think that's the core difference.

But this is why I think that video games shouldn't be compared to movies and vice versa. Two different mediums. Two different sets of "rules" so to speak. And the only reason why something like Manhunt can sell is because it doesn't actually look real. I think most people would get sick to their stomachs otherwise because, unlike film, video games are an interactive medium.

I'll be the first to admit that it's not worth getting up in arms over one out of a thousand hentai games. It's friggin' hentai. Who gives a shit, right? I'm just saying that at some point there is a line.

[Cryomancer]

Sad part is this one is kinda tame compared to Biko 3 if you ask me. In the game, you actually STALK the girls first. Like, it's a stealth action follow them home from the train station game. Although supposedly you can also win their love somehow less creepy/rapist too, but I was terrible at that game as I am at all stealth games.

And yeah seriously Rapelay was popular on internets over tw years ago, bringing this up again has only made more people play it. They had already moved on to somewhat less rapist games like Artificial Girl 3 by now.

[Gameguy]

People are horrified by this, but barely blink an eye at the hundreds of games where you gibb humans into gooey little bits.

I know the argument goes that rape is "psychologically fucked up" etc. etc. and that getting off it on is, well wrong, but I always thought killing people was worse. One life and all that shit.
Usually in games where you kill people, you kill enemy soldiers, criminals, "bad guys", etc. That usually seems more acceptible to people than abusing innocent school children or women. Think about action movies, most are considered appropriate when "bad guys" are killed. Other movies involving serious abuse or torture like what's in the game usually isn't as easily accepted by people.

Even with states that have the death sentence, that seems to be considered appropriate punishment. But I've never heard of any state sentencing people to be raped or tortured as punishment for any crimes. It really is considered worse than death.



It's true that this isn't news. Rape simulators and various types of games/anime are not new. I've seen a few in my day and though I haven't played/seen this one I'd bet it's not the worst of the bunch, either. I think this can be summed up, though, by taking a look at A Clockwork Orange.

In the novel, the main character rapes a couple of ten year olds. In the movie adaptation, however, it's changed to consensual sex with older teens. This, I think, defines the difference. With a book, simple prose, it's just words. It's far less jarring because it really is "just a story." But when adapted to film, now you're dealing with something far more vivid and even in a movie as fucked up as A Clockwork Orange, not many people would be comfortable depicting a child rape scene. Especially since these girls would be played by actresses who are actually real people. I'm all for creative freedom but creative freedom comes paired with creative responsibility. And filming the scene as it was written would have been creatively irresponsible.
Don't forget about Lolita(also made into a film by Stanley Kubrick, and later remade into another film by someone else). A 40+ year old man is into a 12 year old girl, and the film sticks closely with the ages(changed to 14). The later remake shows some really graphic scenes, and you know it's a child. I turned on the TV several years ago and the remake happened to be on, I wondered what the hell they were showing since it seemed so wrong to be broadcast, that's when I looked it up and found out it was originally a book.


This is pretty sick. Where is the line? Im surprised there isnt a child molesting game. Its not far from that.
There are plenty of eroge games like that, plenty involving school aged children, and a few of those involving things like incest(brother and sister, etc). I don't play eroge games, but I've read reviews on several of them and was very shocked at what they actually include in them. The more I read about Japanese culture the more I want to distance myself from it.

[Diosoth]

Banning it is a wasted effort, because anyone with a PC that can run it has a suitable connection to pirate it from somewhere. And really, someone who supports RAPE probably has no issues with downloading illegally, which makes me wonder why they even buy it to begin with.

Unfortunately, there exist people who think that "nudity = porn" no matter what. So we get rape drawings. There's "vore" which usually involved people being eaten, possibly digested, and people find that to be pornographic.

Rape is just a hair above murder.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'll be perfectly honest. I don't think that absolutely everybody who plays this game is a wannabe rapist. I don't think that there's necessarily a correlation between people who do this "fantasy" stuff and what they'd do in real life. If that were the case then we'd all be going to hell for getting a kick out of watching our people run around like lunatics when the kitchen bursts into flames in The Sims.

I just think that at some point things stop being entertainment. Film can be used for a lot of things, not just movies. But even some fictional movies, traditionally intended to entertain, tend to jump a line where I find it hard to call it "entertainment." The same can go for video games.

This and many other hentai games I liken to slasher films. If Friday the 13th actually happened I think every single one of us would be shitting ourselves. That is not something we want to see. Now I'm not particularly a fan of slasher films but I can understand that it's a brand of entertainment that works for a lot of people. These fans can separate the fantasy of the movie from how they'd feel if it were actually unfolding right in front of them. And I'm sure most of the people who play RapeLay would be horrified if they saw a comparable event happen to their next door neighbors.

So, no, I don't think fans of hentai, even if the hentai involves rape or pedophilia, are necessarily bad people who are rapists and pedophiles themselves anymore than I think that people who play GTA are all closet mass murderers. I do, however, think RapeLay and comparable games are in bad taste and I wouldn't produce one myself.

[Diosoth]

I'll be perfectly honest. I don't think that absolutely everybody who plays this game is a wannabe rapist. I don't think that there's necessarily a correlation between people who do this "fantasy" stuff and what they'd do in real life. If that were the case then we'd all be going to hell for getting a kick out of watching our people run around like lunatics when the kitchen bursts into flames in The Sims.

I just think that at some point things stop being entertainment. Film can be used for a lot of things, not just movies. But even some fictional movies, traditionally intended to entertain, tend to jump a line where I find it hard to call it "entertainment." The same can go for video games.

This and many other hentai games I liken to slasher films. If Friday the 13th actually happened I think every single one of us would be shitting ourselves. That is not something we want to see. Now I'm not particularly a fan of slasher films but I can understand that it's a brand of entertainment that works for a lot of people. These fans can separate the fantasy of the movie from how they'd feel if it were actually unfolding right in front of them. And I'm sure most of the people who play RapeLay would be horrified if they saw a comparable event happen to their next door neighbors.

So, no, I don't think fans of hentai, even if the hentai involves rape or pedophilia, are necessarily bad people who are rapists and pedophiles themselves anymore than I think that people who play GTA are all closet mass murderers. I do, however, think RapeLay and comparable games are in bad taste and I wouldn't produce one myself.

Hentai does not automatically equal "bad". There ARE simple nude drawings of legal age adult characters, and soemtimes someone actually draws a consensual act.

The closest the US had to this was Ethnic Cleansing, the white supremacist game crapped out by the morons behind Resistance Records. Only mindless white trash bought copies to play. Funny, really, since most white supremacists are probably too stupid to play video games.

[Ed Oscuro]

All things considered, Axelay is much better.

[TonyTheTiger]

Hentai does not automatically equal "bad". There ARE simple nude drawings of legal age adult characters, and soemtimes someone actually draws a consensual act.

The closest the US had to this was Ethnic Cleansing, the white supremacist game crapped out by the morons behind Resistance Records. Only mindless white trash bought copies to play. Funny, really, since most white supremacists are probably too stupid to play video games.

I know. I wasn't including general "animated porn" in this. Or even "real life" porn, for that matter.

And, yeah, Ethnic Cleansing as well as that JFK shooting simulator fall into a similar category of artistic irresponsibility. We've all had these moments where somebody is telling bad (read: racist/sexist/vulgar/etc.) jokes and you're all laughing because they're genuinely funny but then somebody goes "a little too far" and it stops being fun. It hits too close to home, so to speak. I think that's what can happen in these situations. I can't draw the line but I know when it's been crossed. And it's usually when you first see somebody give that uncomfortable smile where they only show the top row of their teeth.

I'm the biggest fan of "edgy" humor but even the most open stand up comics who work with racial humor all the time probably cringed when they saw the Michael Richards fiasco, regardless of their color. Our personal "lines" might be in different places but I think most people have them.

[DonMarco]

Why bother responding to this topic at all?

1. Defending Rapelay either makes you a rapist wannabe or rapist video gamer.
2. Defending rape play (between two consenting adults OR fictional characters) makes you a weird creep.
3. Defending controversial topics in video games makes you a pariah.

Lastly, is there nothing more important we should be looking over? Usually, when politicians do things like this, they're only using it to fuel some other fire. Say... Preventing minors from buying M-rated games (unconstitutional). Fining people who sell M-rated games to kids (also unconstitutional). Or shipping M-rated games by mail (much like with wine, tobacco and porn) which could find their way into the hands of some poor impressionable youths. Or fining a tax on the sales of M-rated games? Or preventing any American company from working on erotic games????

Seriously, if the best Illusion game can make it to CNN after three years ... What could a decent American game company do?

U-S-A!
U-S-A!
U-S-A!

Which brings up another thought. Why does "erotic game" make people go "lawl Japan" when it should be "lawl prudish America". And a crackdown on game content is a very real threat, people. Look at Germany, which made selling Gears of War 2 illegal just like dozens of other games. Look at in China and that Warcraft expansion. Look at Japan, which censored blood/red out of No More Heroes.

I really want to write up a much longer article on this. I probably won't, but at least I'll think about it tomorrow.

[TonyTheTiger]

snip.

You realize that you just posited a huge straw man, right? Nobody in here, or even in the media, was making the argument you just attacked.

[Zap!]

So what online stores carry this? Yeah it's sick and I would never play it, but if it's gonna be banned I want it because it'll be a part of gaming history.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's not banned and it won't be. It's just that this all started when Amazon noticed the game was being sold on the site and decided to put a stop to it. That's what caused the "news." Some major online retailers are not allowing it but I'm sure you can find it if you look hard enough.

[c0ldb33r]

heh wow, what a post
Why bother responding to any topic at all?

1. Defending anything either makes you a rapist wannabe or rapist video gamer.
2. Defending anything makes you a weird creep.
3. Defending controversial topics makes you a pariah.

Seriously? Why bother trying to stifle a conversation. If you don't want to engage in the conversation, don't bother.

[Cryomancer]

Look at Japan, which censored blood/red out of No More Heroes.


No More Heroes is a Japanese developed game. Europe doesn't have the blood either, it was ADDED for the American release.

[Half Japanese]

Can we agree that outside some folks' shield of anonymity provided by the internet, that hentai, dating sims, and associated forms of "entertainment" are extremely lame?

[kedawa]

I've watched a few videos of this game, and it looks boring as hell. I couldn't even tell it was supposed to be a rape simulator. It seemed more like a voyeuristic game where the girl was slightly uncomfortable.

[Aussie2B]

Can we agree that outside some folks' shield of anonymity provided by the internet, that hentai, dating sims, and associated forms of "entertainment" are extremely lame?

No way, man. Some dating sims (hentai or not) are really fun. You could throw boobs into, I dunno, Metal Gear Solid or Resident Evil, and it doesn't make them suddenly not worth playing. A fun game is a fun game. At their core, dating sims are about gameplay-centered character interaction. They're not much different from, say, an RPG with the usual love interest part of the plot, except instead of just sitting back and watching who the lead is predetermined to hook up with, you get to have fun interacting with a bunch of characters and deciding what couple you prefer best. There's a reason why games like Harvest Moon, Thousand Arms, Ar tonelico, Persona, and others have dating sim aspects. It's just fun.

Of course, none of this is really relevant to RapeLay, as it's not a dating sim nor are most hentai games like it.

[SegaAges]

I don't care if it is out.

I see it like porno mags. If you don't like it, don't buy it or read it to support it. Make a fuss, more people know about it, but if you just be quiet and not support it, then they lose a sale. If everybody does that, then you are good.

[Graham Mitchell]

Can we agree that outside some folks' shield of anonymity provided by the internet, that hentai, dating sims, and associated forms of "entertainment" are extremely lame?

Hate to play Devil's Advocate but I must admit that I've seen some pics of Hentai games and some of them actually look kind of interesting. Some of them appear to be adventure games similar to Snatcher or the LucasArts games. The gratuitous sex and what not are probably difficult to sit through, true, but there were some that I saw and thought I would actually like to try them.

I love games where part of the puzzle is choosing the right responses to questions, etc, and that's what some of these games seem to be all about. Of course, I'm sure when you get deep enough into them, they become absolutely disgusting.

[poloplayr]

Ah! This must be the game that rapists have been playing and inspiring since the dawn of humanity. Probably the same software house that put out the murder simulators that Hitler loved so much. Yes, they surely must be banned because imaginary drawn people get hurt on the screen.

Japan has the most tasteless and immoral porn in the world but please correct me if I am wrong but its rape-related crime statistics are considerably lower compared to the US and other Western countries.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nah, Japan's statistics for rape are way out there; high enough that they've organized women-only cars on many subway lines in various cities.

I'm kinda torn about the whole issue of stuff.

On the one hand, it's a fantasy and responsible people can separate between that and reality.

On the other, the more time a consumer spends with this stuff, they have to sort of obsess over it. There's probably a difference somewhere between a person understanding what kind of person they are and what they like, and putting themselves in proximity with stuff that's creating a world where, in this example, rape is okay and just a fact of normal life.

It's easy enough to blame it on the reckless deviants, but what about the attitude shift in everybody else?

[The 1 2 P]

Can we agree that outside some folks' shield of anonymity provided by the internet, that hentai, dating sims, and associated forms of "entertainment" are extremely lame?

Hentai? Funny. Dating sims? Ridiculously funny. As for the other stuff like this rapeplay "game", I'm sure someone out there finds it entertaining. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[A Black Falcon]

Nah, Japan's statistics for rape are way out there; high enough that they've organized women-only cars on many subway lines in various cities.

Yeah... people just don't actually get charged very often, I believe. :(


I'm kinda torn about the whole issue of stuff.

On the one hand, it's a fantasy and responsible people can separate between that and reality.

On the other, the more time a consumer spends with this stuff, they have to sort of obsess over it. There's probably a difference somewhere between a person understanding what kind of person they are and what they like, and putting themselves in proximity with stuff that's creating a world where, in this example, rape is okay and just a fact of normal life.

It's easy enough to blame it on the reckless deviants, but what about the attitude shift in everybody else?

Yeah, it's tough... that stuff on the one hand, but freedom of speech on the other... and I absolutely believe in freedom of speech. Nobody's being directly harmed by the existence of the game... it's like the US with things like neo-nazi music and stuff, it's not illegal until they actually start doing physical violence or things like that. Many other nations limit words a lot more than we do, though, so this isn't an absolute... but I do think America does it right.

But on the other hand, the things you talk about are absolutely very troubling. But what's the best way to fight against it without banning the things outright? Because things shouldn't be banned just because some people can't handle the content; on that standard, the 'violence in videogames should be banned' people would win, instead of focusing on the actual problem, already troubled people who society failed to notice were dangerous.

I guess what I would take the most issue with is that there isn't enough in anime or anime-style games arguing AGAINST this kind of thing. It is just fantasy, so games like this should be able to exist... but ideally there wouldn't be much of a market for them, and we'd do a better job of stopping the troubled people sooner.

Oh yeah, and Japan would do a lot of good if they'd work on their women's rights... because if people aren't being punished, nothing's going to change, that's for sure. At least in most Western countries, people who do that kind of thing know that there's a good chance that they'll eventually be caught and put in jail for a good long while... the real problem are cultural attitudes and laws. Laws aren't hard to change, but cultural attitudes... those don't change fast, or easily. Just look at our current struggle for gay rights (in this country and everywhere else) for proof of that...

[Zap!]

Oh boy...

[tubeway]

Does it have a 2 Player mode so one player can be the one getting raped?

[The 1 2 P]

Does it have a 2 Player mode so one player can be the one getting raped?

Thats not the kind of co-op I would prefer. But I guess some people like being the bitch.

[Aussie2B]

Nah, Japan's statistics for rape are way out there; high enough that they've organized women-only cars on many subway lines in various cities.

Rape and subway gropings are two very, very different things.

The last thing this topic needs is to turn into another "Japan is so bizarre" or "Japan is so messed up" topic. We shouldn't vilify an entire nation and people over an obscure, creepy PC game. People are acting as if Rapelay is getting the same sales and recognition in Japan as Final Fantasy.

[Buyatari]

People are horrified by this, but barely blink an eye at the hundreds of games where you gibb humans into gooey little bits.

I know the argument goes that rape is "psychologically fucked up" etc. etc. and that getting off it on is, well wrong, but I always thought killing people was worse. One life and all that shit.

Before anyone thinks I'm supporting this, I'm not. Not in the slightest. It's retarded. While funny that some idiot spent his time making it, it really doesn't need to exist. Nonetheless, there's a shitload of games that have lots of illegal behavior going on, a lot of which is worse than rape. FYI, I qualify "murder" as worse than rape. Even if you don't, it's definitely up there. So why flip a shit about this game? It's not realistic in the slightest, and it's just way too ridiculous to be taken seriously.

I think everyone has thought about commiting a violent acts at some time or another and many may even think about killing someone who has harmed them in the past even if it is just to think about it. Then we have war and captial punishment where killing is "supposed to be" the right thing to do. So killing isn't always so bad to some people and it is something many have even considered if only briefly. In general we have just grown a think skin when it comes to murder.

Rape well rape is always wrong.

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah... people just don't actually get charged very often, I believe. :(

It's one of the least reported crimes, if not the #1 least reported crime.


Yeah, it's tough... that stuff on the one hand, but freedom of speech on the other... and I absolutely believe in freedom of speech. Nobody's being directly harmed by the existence of the game... it's like the US with things like neo-nazi music and stuff, it's not illegal until they actually start doing physical violence or things like that. Many other nations limit words a lot more than we do, though, so this isn't an absolute... but I do think America does it right.

The freedom of speech thing only comes into play when you start talking about banning stuff. In this case, most of us here and in the media are just saying it's in poor taste. Amazon is choosing of its own volition not to allow it on their site much like I'm sure many of us wouldn't want Neo Nazis in our homes. You can be pro First Amendment and still call garbage what it is. I've been doing that with Manhunt since it first came out. We aren't wiping our asses with the Constitution just because we don't give a free pass to everything under the sun.

The First Amendment would come into play if we started arguing that this should be banned because it's an implicit rallying cry for violence against women and that kind of speech isn't protected. But I highly doubt that argument would hold water. There are a lot of "rape play" porn films where rape is used as a springboard but the girl eventually submits either because she finds it exciting or because she just accepts being powerless in the situation. And those are live action yet don't qualify. As tasteless as RapeLay might be, it's still just a cartoon.

Male power fantasies are not alien to entertainment, even innocent entertainment. It's particularly not alien to video games, a medium mostly targeted at young males. A wholly innocent game like Ar Tonelico has constant sleazy undertones. And this is a game I like. But I'd be lying through my teeth if I didn't say I'm sometimes embarrassed to play it just because the dialogue is so full of innuendo. RapeLay is sort of the same deal except, unlike Ar Tonelico, it sheds all pretense and just says what it means to say.

And this isn't just games involving sex, either. Any game where you play as a muscular one man army is appealing to the little Rambo in all of us. And I don't think that's a bad thing. Wish fulfillment is relatively normal in entertainment and should continue to be. We wouldn't have Superman if a couple of kids from the 30s didn't think, "Man, wouldn't it be cool to be super strong?" Games like RapeLay and Manhunt just take it "a little too far." It's just like the racist joke. Racist jokes can be incredibly funny. Until someone goes "a little too far." But the location of the line varies from person to person. I don't think there's any "evil" to playing RapeLay. I don't think people who do are bad people or prone to deviant sexual behavior. It's just that, for me, it crosses that line where it stops being entertaining...for me...maybe not for somebody else.

[Buyatari]

Not like we haven't seen it before.

What about Custer's Revenge is that one OK ?

[TonyTheTiger]

Not particularly.

But, again, it's tasteless but simultaneously a stupid cartoon. And I use that word loosely as those things on screen barely look human at all. It's not particularly harmful but it doesn't have to be in order to qualify as garbage.

[ThoughtBomb]

It's true that this isn't news. Rape simulators and various types of games/anime are not new. I've seen a few in my day and though I haven't played/seen this one I'd bet it's not the worst of the bunch, either. I think this can be summed up, though, by taking a look at A Clockwork Orange.

In the novel, the main character rapes a couple of ten year olds. In the movie adaptation, however, it's changed to consensual sex with older teens. This, I think, defines the difference. With a book, simple prose, it's just words. It's far less jarring because it really is "just a story." But when adapted to film, now you're dealing with something far more vivid and even in a movie as fucked up as A Clockwork Orange, not many people would be comfortable depicting a child rape scene. Especially since these girls would be played by actresses who are actually real people. I'm all for creative freedom but creative freedom comes paired with creative responsibility. And filming the scene as it was written would have been creatively irresponsible.

I'm convinced the only reason games/hentai like this can 'get away with it' is because it is "just a cartoon." It might be in bad taste but it has the same kind of defenses that the Clockwork novel would use.

I'll be perfectly honest. I think Manhunt pushes into creative irresponsibility, too. But, again, it's "just a cartoon...sort of." I guarantee that if CGI were capable of mimicking reality flawlessly then a game like Manhunt wouldn't be able find a market. Who'd want to play it if it were that real, right? I think the same thing goes for these rape simulators or hentai where the oldest female involved is a whopping 12 years old. If it got "too real" it ends up crossing that line into "what the fuck this is sick" to even the most dedicated supporters.

I'm sort of talking out of both ends of my mouth here. But what I'm trying to get at is that at some point an offensive concept is less offensive to the masses because of the limitations of the medium itself. When moved into a different medium, or when the limitations of a medium are removed from the equation, then all of a sudden something relatively innocent turns into something incredibly disturbing.

...Not you too Tony, not you too. :bawling:

[TonyTheTiger]

What do you mean? :?

[The 1 2 P]

It looks like ebay has finally started to ban this game...two years after allowing it to sell regularly in the adult section. Better late than never I suppose.

[ThoughtBomb]

What do you mean? :?

I was just goofin on your avatar. The thought of Tony the Tiger making social commentary about a hentai rape game makes me laugh. Yea, I'm a little nutty. 'It's RRRape!'

[Kroogah]

'It's RRRape!'

This thread just got 120% more awesome.

[Compute]

I'll throw in my hat on this one..

What makes rape different from killing somebody? Let's remove this whole "good" and "evil" because those terms are bulllshit. They merely exist to give us REASON to kill, maim, rape, whatever. It's ok to kill this guy because he is "bad."

No matter how "bad" RapeLay may be (I didn't play it because I personally find it to be disgusting), how long until all of our favorite games are labelled as "bad" and banned?

Why is this being banned anyway? What evils will not banning it allow? Will this game create MORE rapists in the same way that _insert shooting game here_ creates more murders, or Punchout! creates more boxers, Madden inspires more children to become pro football players, etc etc?

How many people have fantasized about becoming a bagger at a grocery store because they played a lot of Tetris or Klax growing up? I, for one, never followed through on my fantasy to pilot a spaceship shooting asteroids for no apparent reason in the middle of space.

[TonyTheTiger]

I was just goofin on your avatar. The thought of Tony the Tiger making social commentary about a hentai rape game makes me laugh. Yea, I'm a little nutty. 'It's RRRape!'

Yeah, I suppose when I get all "seriousness" about stuff the smiling cartoon tiger is just incongruent.


This thread just got 120% more awesome.

ROFL


I'll throw in my hat on this one..

What makes rape different from killing somebody? Let's remove this whole "good" and "evil" because those terms are bulllshit. They merely exist to give us REASON to kill, maim, rape, whatever. It's ok to kill this guy because he is "bad."

I don't think it's fair to compare rape vs. killing. A better comparison would be either sex vs. killing or rape vs. murder. Rape vs. killing is comparing a specific sex crime with a general principle of taking a life when not all killing is murder or even criminal behavior.

RapeLay vs. Manhunt is probably the best comparison. Although Manhunt appears to be much more "real" and "gritty" whereas RapeLay looks a lot more cartoony.


No matter how "bad" RapeLay may be (I didn't play it because I personally find it to be disgusting), how long until all of our favorite games are labelled as "bad" and banned?

Why is this being banned anyway? What evils will not banning it allow? Will this game create MORE rapists in the same way that _insert shooting game here_ creates more murders, or Punchout! creates more boxers, Madden inspires more children to become pro football players, etc etc?

There actually is no real banning going on. A few retail outlets have decided not to sell the product but usually "banning" is reserved to the government stepping in. Child pornography is banned, for example. I don't like people smoking in my car but smoking isn't "banned."

Even if this game were banned, however, I don't think the slippery slope is going to happen. This is a very specific situation.


How many people have fantasized about becoming a bagger at a grocery store because they played a lot of Tetris or Klax growing up? I, for one, never followed through on my fantasy to pilot a spaceship shooting asteroids for no apparent reason in the middle of space.

You didn't follow through? I'm currently looking to advance my education in asteroid shooting theory.

[Ed Oscuro]

Rape and subway gropings are two very, very different things.

The last thing this topic needs is to turn into another "Japan is so bizarre" or "Japan is so messed up" topic. We shouldn't vilify an entire nation and people over an obscure, creepy PC game. People are acting as if Rapelay is getting the same sales and recognition in Japan as Final Fantasy.
If only Japan's rape reporting rates were in line with other nations. It's likely been underreported (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/02/world/main571280.shtml) for years. If a person is raped, it seems nobody gives a fuck (http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST17815620070515).

Don't just take it from me (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=20086&highlight=rape). Gender equality still has a way to go in Japan, but it does seem the situation is improving. Believe whatever suits your sense of justice, I guess.

On the other hand, there was a paper correlating a surge in porno availability with a decrease in rape, here (http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html).

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't know shit about sociology but perhaps the apparent abundance of hentai where rape is either "no big deal" or actually preferable is just a reflection of a general Japanese stigma that rape itself is...I won't say not important...but perhaps not incredibly serious.

Of course we also know that rape games/hentai are not mainstream in the least. So I dunno.

[Aussie2B]

If only Japan's rape reporting rates were in line with other nations. It's likely been underreported (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/02/world/main571280.shtml) for years. If a person is raped, it seems nobody gives a fuck (http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST17815620070515).

Don't just take it from me (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=20086&highlight=rape). Gender equality still has a way to go in Japan, but it does seem the situation is improving. Believe whatever suits your sense of justice, I guess.

On the other hand, there was a paper correlating a surge in porno availability with a decrease in rape, here (http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html).

Gender equality has a long way to go in America as well, so what's your point? There's a huge percentage of unreported rape in America too. No matter where you go in the world there's a lot of stigma about rape, and women often feel too ashamed of themselves to tell anybody about what happened. There was a story on my local news just a little while ago about a woman that got beaten and raped on the subway platform here in NYC, despite that she ran up the steps and was screaming at the MTA attendant in the booth to help. The guy just stared at her and did nothing. Well, he pressed a button that summons the police, but everything was long over by the time they came. That's their policy for what to do if something illegal is happening in the station - just stay in the booth. I think it's pretty messed up. The point is, there's really messed up stuff that happens everywhere.

I didn't say one thing or the other about statistics. Just that there's this attitude that people have about Japan that is either "lol Japan" or "wow, Japan is so fucked up". The topic you linked to exemplifies that. I don't care about defending Japan, but people shouldn't encourage ignorance. The reality is that the Japanese are just as boring and ordinary as anybody else.

[Berserker]

If only Japan's rape reporting rates were in line with other nations. It's likely been underreported (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/02/world/main571280.shtml) for years. If a person is raped, it seems nobody gives a fuck (http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST17815620070515).

Don't just take it from me (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=20086&highlight=rape). Gender equality still has a way to go in Japan, but it does seem the situation is improving. Believe whatever suits your sense of justice, I guess.

On the other hand, there was a paper correlating a surge in porno availability with a decrease in rape, here (http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html).

:golfclap:

Good post, sir.

[Ed Oscuro]

I know. Who gives a shit about something relevant, like statistics, when you can be patronizing and accuse the other guy of being ethnocentric at once? What a coup!

Here's a random quote from one of the articles that I may or may not have thought was germane to the discussion (I say that because apparently it's not having the desired impact):

Japan's top government spokesman in 2003 was quoted as telling reporters in an off-the-record briefing that some women were asking to be raped by dressing provocatively -- a remark that outraged many but failed to dent his political clout.
Indeed, the US has its problems - but if, say, Ari Fleischer or Scott McClellan had said such a thing, the door would've hit their ass before they knew they'd turned away from the podium.


I didn't say one thing or the other about statistics. Just that there's this attitude that people have about Japan that is either "lol Japan" or "wow, Japan is so fucked up".

On a lighter note, lol @ Japan.

rather NSFW (description: loli girl painted on back of passenger van w/bits covered by license plate...hope this isn't too overboard; hey, at least I edited out the img tags! -Ed) (http://www.oneinchpunch.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/itashasugoi.jpg)

Thank god for number plates, eh?

[hbkprm]

don't ban the shit

[Aussie2B]

I know. Who gives a shit about something relevant, like statistics, when you can be patronizing and accuse the other guy of being ethnocentric at once? What a coup!

Dude, no need to act like I insulted your mother. I was talking about the general attitude that this topic was degrading into, not anything specifically about you. Let's try to keep the discussion intelligent and respectable, rather than having a bunch of people going "Japan is like this" and "Japan is like that" when they really don't know squat about the country and culture. And having the ability to look up a few articles on Google doesn't make any of us experts. I don't like it when foreigners (to me) make sweeping comments about America, so if we ever want the rest of the world to not see us as slack-jawed hillbillies, we can at least follow the golden rule and not cast generalizations on them.

[Gameguy]

This game looks bad now, but there probably will be even worse games in the future.

RapeLay 2: Bestiality Edition
"Cruise the neighbourhood looking for attractive pets and wildlife that suit your interest, lure them into your home and have your way with them all in detailed 3D. Or take a trip to local farms, zoos, aquariums...."

Heck, something like that could be advertised as educational as lots of information could be given about the different types of animals. LOL

[Ed Oscuro]

Let's try to keep the discussion intelligent and respectable, rather than having a bunch of people going "Japan is like this" and "Japan is like that" when they really don't know squat about the country and culture.
So it's just a coincidence that your complaint about people going "lol, Japan" crops up when I make a well-supported (if academic) point? And I need to be told to keep the discussion intelligent, which isn't insulting in the least? :monkey:

[Sonicwolf]

The internet it a tangled web of memes and jokes that are more well believed than the actual facts are.

[squirrelnut]

I downloaded it and it wont run on my pc :(

[TonyTheTiger]

LOL

There's a joke or crude comment in there somewhere but I can't think of one right now.