SNES vs Megadrive (Genesis)

[old_skoolin_jim]

Rendering Ranger is a barely average game. The graphics are very amateur and the gameplay is poor. I'm not crazy enough to own it, but I know someone who does and I've played it a few times. Not even half as good as Gunstar Heroes or Contra III.

You obviously don't have much experience of video games.

I have to agree, honestly. Although I am judging solely by the video you linked to, it looks really boring and repetitive.
As for the graphics? They're rendered sprites. Big deal!
Why is this game allegedly considered "legendary" again when it's on the same system as Contra III?
I understand it's "fast" as far as SNES action games are concerned, but it just didn't look all that compelling.

[edit] I just watched video of the intro/1st level, and wondered something else: did they not know how to animate enemy sprites? They're all static characters with no animation, just floaty movements. Weak.

[timewarpgamer]

Kudos to you for taking the path less traveled with respect to your choice of consoles.

Vinny Feldman
30
Genesis

Not a fair question, really. I love them both, but I'll go with the Genny, since that's what I grew up with.

[Zoltor]

adjective inflation gone awry

the four face button configuration is not optimal for fighting games.

workable... sure
flawless... what the hell are you smoking?







the wet dream all-star game list of an RPG nerd. street fighter ii was the only pure action game on the list... and despite its sound and graphic shortcomings, the genesis version played better


had nintendo bothered to put a little more horsepower into the snes, it wouldve been the end-all-be-all 16bit system. they failed. nintendo figured pretty pictures and music were more important than gameplay, so you end up getting a library that is full of glorified graphic novels, with a sparse handful of mushy-controlled and slow-paced action games.

i like a good rpg as much as the next guy, but my love of video games stemmed from old school challenge. beat the level, beat the clock, beat the high score, beat your opponent. shedding a tear during a well orchestrated cut scene is not a proper barometer of a good video game platform. what the genesis lacked in on-screen colors and midi orchestras, it made up in fast paced and tightly controlled action.

Maybe for simplistic fighters no, but for actual good fighters, it is optimal.

[Valkrazhor]

I have to agree, honestly. Although I am judging solely by the video you linked to, it looks really boring and repetitive.
As for the graphics? They're rendered sprites. Big deal!
Why is this game allegedly considered "legendary" again when it's on the same system as Contra III?
I understand it's "fast" as far as SNES action games are concerned, but it just didn't look all that compelling.

[edit] I just watched video of the intro/1st level, and wondered something else: did they not know how to animate enemy sprites? They're all static characters with no animation, just floaty movements. Weak.

In my eyes the game is not repetitive at all. The levels mix up platforming elements where you have to time stuff as well as the run and gun type stuff. The game alternates between levels on foot like Turrican and levels in a ship like a traditional shmup. Not one of the levels in this game feels the same at all. I can't say that for many games either and I wouldn't just talk out of my ass simply because I love this game. One has you blowing up astroids, another one has you navigating through tight corridors as the screen scrolls, another one has you traveling to a power core to blow it up, another has you doing a boss rush, etc. The look of most levels is completely different as well. Because of this, once you get through a lot of levels you feel like you have been on some massive journey through space. The variety throughout the levels is the other reason aside from the atmosphere that make me love this game.

As for the animation, yea I agree. Some of it is a bit stiff in the first level. I'm assuming you were talking about the flying mech enemies? I never minded it, but I guess I was just focused on other graphical details to care. Most of the game is animated well aside from those. I mean the ship taking off at the end of level 2 alone is one of the best animations I've ever seen in a Super Famicom game. Did you check that out? This is only one example too. The Mech fight in level 5 is nothing short of amazing as far as animation is concerned either. Rendered sprites may seem funny with our 3D graphics of today but to me they add to the unique look of the game and it wouldn't be the same without them. They remind me of the sprites in the great Neo-Geo shmup "Pulstar". Also, as I said earlier; this game is more about the art design than anything for me, not its graphic prowess alone.

The only gripe I really have with the game is at times it feels a bit too easy. Something that plagues a lot of SNES games. It doesn't feel unbalanced though, the levels do progress in difficulty steadily. Stage 7 is actually considerably hard followed by level 8 which I still haven't beat yet. I have never tried the hard setting either, only normal.

Anyway... The videos of this game don't do it justice to be honest. You should try to play to level four or so on an emulator or something if not the real hardware. I think you would be pleasantly surprised, especially if you are a fan of games like Contra. If you don't like the game by then then it probably isn't your cup of tea. As I said earlier, to each his own man.

[SplashChick]

Who are you? A snooty art critic?

I love when people talk down about things and give no examples. Especially when on top of that, they talk down to others for not agreeing with them. It shows a lot of intelligence.

As far as you not liking the gameplay in Rendering Ranger, fair enough. Maybe you have your reasons. Different strokes for different folks. Though by you stating that, especially without backing it up, I doubt that you even played past level two. Don't bother backing it all up now though because at this point I can care less about your input. I think its gameplay is superb. Near perfect balance and increase of difficulty as you progress. I especially love how all the different levels require the use of your four different weapons in certain sections. The boss battles are great, especially in level 5 where it throws not one but three bosses at you. When I bought it I was actually expecting the gameplay not to be as good as it is. I thought it would just be more of an eye candy fest than anything. I was pleasantly suprised.

If you don't like the graphic "style" in Rendering Ranger then I can understand that, but if you don't think its graphics are amazing from a technical standpoint then you are blind. That's like telling someone that The Beatles make shitty music simply because you don't like their style. Not feasible, just ignorant. You can acknowledge something is good without liking it. Pay credit where credit is due. To throw more salt onto your wound, it has zero slowdown. The game was programmed by a one man army and it oozes his passion and love for the craft. The attention to detail in the game is amazing and it feels epic every step of the way thanks to its amazing art direction. Its atmosphere is one of the main reasons I keep coming back for more. Calling its graphics/programming "amateur" is laughable. Do you know who Manfred Trenz is?

Oh sorry I forgot. Anyone who doesn't share the same opinion as you obviously doesn't have much "experience of video games". Now everyone, agree with anything "Grand Master of All Video Game Knowledge Mimi Nakamura" says from now on!

Judging from the egotistical end of your your last post, you take gaming too seriously and likely meditate day and night on how much of a "hardcore gamer" you think you are. You obviously don't get out much or laid for that matter. I'm suprised that you even have a friend to play video games with. Don't fret though, Gunstar Hero's and Contra III are both excellent on single player for all those lonely nights you must be having. You're right. Glad to see that you already picked up on that.

Why am I so peeved over a single rude comment? Because I can't stand elitist chumps like you who talk down to others for no good reason. It's much too common of a trend on the internet. Learn some manners and grow up. Hopefully you don't act like this in the real world.

Now bug off and stop playing with fire kid.

I have to agree with this. Don't be such a freaking prick, Mimi. Also, play better RPGs.

Yeah, I don't see myself declaring this game to be the best game ever, I'll probably still enjoy Super Turrican more(I love Super Turrican omg) but I can definitely see what Valkrazhor is talking about here. I can appreciate well done 2D graphics, they have a unique quality on their own that 3D graphics can't replicate. 3D graphics are not inherently better than 2D for this reason. I'd rather look at beautiful 2D graphics from games like Street Fighter III: Third Strike and King of Fighters XII than most of the new 3D games that come out.

[Sosage]

I have to agree with this. Don't be such a freaking prick, Mimi. Also, play better RPGs.

Yeah, I don't see myself declaring this game to be the best game ever, I'll probably still enjoy Super Turrican more(I love Super Turrican omg) but I can definitely see what Valkrazhor is talking about here. I can appreciate well done 2D graphics, they have a unique quality on their own that 3D graphics can't replicate. 3D graphics are not inherently better than 2D for this reason. I'd rather look at beautiful 2D graphics from games like Street Fighter III: Third Strike and King of Fighters XII than most of the new 3D games that come out.

Let's not go down the 2D vs. 3D path, because the only thing one has over the other these days is in the workflow.

Funny you mention King of Fighters XII though...the art department created those sprites by tracing over pre-rendered 3D animations. It's a great example of utilizing the strengths of both techniques.

[Mimi Nakamura]

Who are you? A snooty art critic?

I love when people talk down about things and give no examples. Especially when on top of that, they talk down to others for not agreeing with them. It shows a lot of intelligence.

As far as you not liking the gameplay in Rendering Ranger, fair enough. Maybe you have your reasons. Different strokes for different folks. Though by you stating that, especially without backing it up, I doubt that you even played past level two. Don't bother backing it all up now though because at this point I can care less about your input. I think its gameplay is superb. Near perfect balance and increase of difficulty as you progress. I especially love how all the different levels require the use of your four different weapons in certain sections. The boss battles are great, especially in level 5 where it throws not one but three bosses at you. When I bought it I was actually expecting the gameplay not to be as good as it is. I thought it would just be more of an eye candy fest than anything. I was pleasantly suprised.

If you don't like the graphic "style" in Rendering Ranger then I can understand that, but if you don't think its graphics are amazing from a technical standpoint then you are blind. That's like telling someone that The Beatles make shitty music simply because you don't like their style. Not feasible, just ignorant. You can acknowledge something is good without liking it. Pay credit where credit is due. To throw more salt onto your wound, it has zero slowdown. The game was programmed by a one man army and it oozes his passion and love for the craft. The attention to detail in the game is amazing and it feels epic every step of the way thanks to its amazing art direction. Its atmosphere is one of the main reasons I keep coming back for more. Calling its graphics/programming "amateur" is laughable. Do you know who Manfred Trenz is?

Oh sorry I forgot. Anyone who doesn't share the same opinion as you obviously doesn't have much "experience of video games". Now everyone, agree with anything "Grand Master of All Video Game Knowledge Mimi Nakamura" says from now on!

Judging from the egotistical end of your your last post, you take gaming too seriously and likely meditate day and night on how much of a "hardcore gamer" you think you are. You obviously don't get out much or laid for that matter. I'm suprised that you even have a friend to play video games with. Don't fret though, Gunstar Hero's and Contra III are both excellent on single player for all those lonely nights you must be having. You're right. Glad to see that you already picked up on that.

Why am I so peeved over a single rude comment? Because I can't stand elitist chumps like you who talk down to others for no good reason. It's much too common of a trend on the internet. Learn some manners and grow up. Hopefully you don't act like this in the real world.

Now bug off and stop playing with fire kid.

Your original post was so arrogant and stupid that I couldn't resist cutting you down. Are you seriously ranking Rendering Ranger as high as Contra III and Gunstar Heroes?

You're somewhat wrong about my personal life, but you're right about me being a game addict.

I see you live in Tokyo. If you'd like to learn more about me, I usually spend around an hour at the Sega game centre in Shibuya on Meiji Dori most week evenings. I'm the girl kicking everyone's ass at Blazblue. That's if you have time to get away from masturbating over your dreamboy, Manfred Trenz.

[VG_Maniac]

I like the SNES much better. There just was never that many games on the Genesis I liked besides Sonic and a few others. The SNES had way more AAA titles...and many of my favorite games of all time are on the system (Final Fantasy III, Mega Man X, Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger, Zelda: A Link to the Past, Secret of Mana, Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong Country, etc). There just wasn't anything on the Genesis that came anywhere close to those games in my opinion.

[chrisbid]

Maybe for simplistic fighters no, but for actual good fighters, it is optimal.


common sense time

how can a game that uses six buttons be 'optimal' on a controller with four buttons?

workable, yes
optimal, no

[SplashChick]

Let's not go down the 2D vs. 3D path, because the only thing one has over the other these days is in the workflow.

Funny you mention King of Fighters XII though...the art department created those sprites by tracing over pre-rendered 3D animations. It's a great example of utilizing the strengths of both techniques.

Really? That's an awesome idea.

Again Mimi, stop being a douche. Take your pompous flames elsewhere. Also nobody gives a crap that you spend every day shoving money in a mediocre fighting game.

@Chrisbid: Don't forget that sticks beat controllers anyway when it comes to fighters.

[chrisbid]

@Chrisbid: Don't forget that sticks beat controllers anyway when it comes to fighters.


would a stick with a four button arrangement (or odd six button like the super advantage) beat a controller with a six button configuration? i vote no

[TheGam3r]

Username:TheGam3r
Age:14
Choice:SNES
Reasoning:

Super Game Boy (You can play Pokemon R/B/Y/G/S On your TV)

The Graphics

the music

Capcom and Konami making amazing games for it

Arcade Ports (SF2)

A dream RPG Console

The SNES Had all the greatest games for each nintendo franchise at the time.








On a Side note the SNES And Genesis ended with an arcade game port (Frogger in 1998)

[SplashChick]

would a stick with a four button arrangement (or odd six button like the super advantage) beat a controller with a six button configuration? i vote no

How the hell is this relevant?

[Richter Belmount]

I sense the rage and anger coming from this topic . Im starting to get really pissed off myself on the one hand mimi makes a good point about rr looking boring and repetitive but on the other Manfred Trenz put all his heart and passion into the game that I simply cant pick a side now I dont know who to be angry at. Right and valk might not play alot of games. Though I am certain that I am angry about a four button controller that isnt optimal for a 6 button game. And Im angry at myself too for some odd reason.

[SplashChick]

I sense the rage and anger coming from this topic . Im starting to get really pissed off myself on the one hand mimi makes a good point about rr looking boring and repetitive but on the other Manfred Trenz put all his heart and passion into the game that I simply cant pick a side now I dont know who to be angry at. Right and valk might not play alot of games. Though I am certain that I am angry about a four button controller that isnt optimal for a 6 button game. And Im angry at myself too for some odd reason.

...

What the hell are you talking about?

[Richter Belmount]

...

What the hell are you talking about?

Will you clean my cat litter?

[badinsults]

It is probably best not to try and figure out what Richter Belmont is talking about.



At any rate, anyone who says that Rendering Ranger doesn't have some of the best graphics on a 16 bit system has never played through it. The amount of sprites and detailed (large) enemies moving around on the screen at once without any slowdown is impressive if you look back to something like Gradius III. And who cares if it is rendered? Are you saying that Donkey Kong Country 3 has crappy graphics because it is rendered? I'll admit that the first level in RR is not very inspired, but it gets much better after that.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I love the smell of flamewar in the morning... Manfred doesn't surf sir!!!

[HappehLemons]

Your original post was so arrogant and stupid that I couldn't resist cutting you down. Are you seriously ranking Rendering Ranger as high as Contra III and Gunstar Heroes?

You're somewhat wrong about my personal life, but you're right about me being a game addict.

I see you live in Tokyo. If you'd like to learn more about me, I usually spend around an hour at the Sega game centre in Shibuya on Meiji Dori most week evenings. I'm the girl kicking everyone's ass at Blazblue. That's if you have time to get away from masturbating over your dreamboy, Manfred Trenz.

I've never said, but I've noticed you a lot on this from and almost everything you have to say is stupid, and I'm starting to wish someone would ban you.

Even though I personally don't think that Rendering Ranger is that good of a game, it's an asshole comment of you to say

You obviously don't have much experience of video games.
Espically on a forum that people join because this is a step up from most casual gaming boards.
It's like you're trying to start problems, he didn't say anything insulting to you and he's just expressing his opinion about the game so the least you could do as a "hardcore gamer" is respect it. If you're going to disagree with someone, don't do it cunt.

[SplashChick]

I've never said, but I've noticed you a lot on this from and almost everything you have to say is stupid, and I'm starting to wish someone would ban you.

Even though I personally don't think that Rendering Ranger is that good of a game, it's an asshole comment of you to say

Espically on a forum that people join because this is a step up from most casual gaming boards.
It's like you're trying to start problems, he didn't say anything insulting to you and he's just expressing his opinion about the game so the least you could do as a "hardcore gamer" is respect it. If you're going to disagree with someone, don't do it cunt.

Since someone already went into it, I'm going to go ahead and agree fully while adding this: I despise girl gamers. That's specifically girl gamers, as in girls who put the girl before the gamer. You basically flamed this guy's opinion and gave no reasoning for it beyond your unrelated declaration of how you beat the boys at a video game. I'm so sick of being stereotyped by people just because they ran into someone like you before. Bleeding from your crotch once a month does not make your opinion more valid, your accomplishments more impressive, or your thoughts more relevant. God.

[todesengel]

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/images/7/71/Internet_argument.jpg

[Mimi Nakamura]

I've never said, but I've noticed you a lot on this from and almost everything you have to say is stupid, and I'm starting to wish someone would ban you.

Even though I personally don't think that Rendering Ranger is that good of a game, it's an asshole comment of you to say

Espically on a forum that people join because this is a step up from most casual gaming boards.
It's like you're trying to start problems, he didn't say anything insulting to you and he's just expressing his opinion about the game so the least you could do as a "hardcore gamer" is respect it. If you're going to disagree with someone, don't do it cunt.

When some makes the following comment:



Judging from the egotistical end of your your last post, you take gaming too seriously and likely meditate day and night on how much of a "hardcore gamer" you think you are. You obviously don't get out much or laid for that matter. I'm suprised that you even have a friend to play video games with. Don't fret though, Gunstar Hero's and Contra III are both excellent on single player for all those lonely nights you must be having. You're right. Glad to see that you already picked up on that.

I have the right to retaliate.

Likewise, you yourself hypocritically complain about me being rude then you call me a cunt.

Anyway, let's get back to arguing about which system is the best.

[todesengel]

And since everybody is going on about Rendering Ranger on here I'll add my two cents about it. I feel that it's a mediocre game and honestly wasn't anything special, especially since we played the game twice before on the SNES when it was called Turrican and Jim Power. To add to the actual topic, Genesis/Mega Drive is still the better system to me, I feel it has a much more varied library of games to choose from.

[SplashChick]

When some makes the following comment:



I have the right to retaliate.

Likewise, you yourself hypocritically complain about me being rude then you call me a cunt.

Anyway, let's get back to arguing about which system is the best.

Too bad you quoted a response to your flaming. It doesn't work that way, hon.

[Mimi Nakamura]

Since someone already went into it, I'm going to go ahead and agree fully while adding this: I despise girl gamers. That's specifically girl gamers, as in girls who put the girl before the gamer. You basically flamed this guy's opinion and gave no reasoning for it beyond your unrelated declaration of how you beat the boys at a video game. I'm so sick of being stereotyped by people just because they ran into someone like you before. Bleeding from your crotch once a month does not make your opinion more valid, your accomplishments more impressive, or your thoughts more relevant. God.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you claiming that I'm some kind of feminist? Out of interest, what exactly is the stereotype of a "girl gamer"?

[HappehLemons]

When some makes the following comment:



I have the right to retaliate.

Likewise, you yourself hypocritically complain about me being rude then you call me a cunt.

Anyway, let's get back to arguing about which system is the best.


No, you see what he was doing was retaliating from when you said "You obviously don't have much experience of video games." He wasn't blatantly insulting you for no reason, he was just defending himself and his post was pretty much right.

Your post was egotistical, realize it.

You started the argument, which you had no right to do in the first place. I'm calling you a cunt because of that, and it's based on your other equally egotistical posts.

[Mimi Nakamura]

No, you see what he was doing was retaliating from when you said "You obviously don't have much experience of video games." He wasn't blatantly insulting you for no reason, he was just defending himself and his post was pretty much right.

Your post was egotistical, realize it.

You started the argument, which you had no right to do in the first place. I'm calling you a cunt because of that, and it's based on your other equally egotistical posts.

OK, if that's what you think.

Let's argue about the main topic instead.

The Super Famicom had some great games, but the Mega Drive had a more mature feel to it. It was the system that brought the arcade feeling home in my opinion.

[SplashChick]

What on earth are you talking about? Are you claiming that I'm some kind of feminist? Out of interest, what exactly is the stereotype of a "girl gamer"?

Your series of posts in this thread show it quite nicely.

[Mimi Nakamura]

Your series of posts in this thread show it quite nicely.

I'm not aware of such stereotypes. It's 2009, all kinds of people play games, boys, girls, men, women. There is no stereotype because video games are mainstream.

[SplashChick]

I...seriously don't know what to say to those last 2 posts. Wow. Really, you just COMPLETELY blew off one post and instantly changed the topic, and then claimed that stereotypes don't exist. WOW.

[Mimi Nakamura]

I...seriously don't know what to say to those last 2 posts. Wow. Really, you just COMPLETELY blew off one post and instantly changed the topic, and then claimed that stereotypes don't exist. WOW.

I see you're trying to bait me.

OK, if you want stereotypes, here's one. I'm guessing you're overweight, don't have much time for fashion or beauty salons, and wear thick lens glasses.

[HappehLemons]

I see you're trying to bait me.

OK, if you want stereotypes, here's one. I'm guessing you're overweight, don't have much time for fashion or beauty salons, and wear thick lens glasses.

Are you kidding me?

There are a good amount people in this forum that already have expressed they don't like you and I'm sure there's a lot more that haven't said anything that are just waiting to. Starting multiple arguments if definitely (epically in the same thread) not smart.

I'm reporting all of your insulting posts , and I hope that more people do the same.

I'm not going to explain to you how you take things to a level that is completely not appropriate because you don't seem to understand for some reason.

[Valkrazhor]

When some makes the following comment:

Originally Posted by Valkrazhor
Judging from the egotistical end of your your last post, you take gaming too seriously and likely meditate day and night on how much of a "hardcore gamer" you think you are. You obviously don't get out much or laid for that matter. I'm suprised that you even have a friend to play video games with. Don't fret though, Gunstar Hero's and Contra III are both excellent on single player for all those lonely nights you must be having. You're right. Glad to see that you already picked up on that.

I have the right to retaliate.


Just how big of a moron are you? I made that comment AFTER you ran your mouth on how "obviously inexperienced" I am for having a different opinion than you. How did you expect me to react to that? You're just digging for whatever dirt you can grasp onto. Quit while your ahead.

As for you thinking my first post was "arrogant" and "stupid", I was simply stating an opinion like everyone else here is aside from you. It's what a forum is for. The only one who is arrogant is you. Hypocrite. You're first post to me was the definition of arrogance, talking down to me from your imaginary high horse like a prick. Then you continued to let your arrogance shine when you stated that you want me to meet you up here in Tokyo where you are supposedly kicking everyones ass in Blazeblue. Why did you even add that last bit in? Do you think I or anyone else cares? And on top of all this you accuse others of being hypocrites? What a joke.

You like stereotypes? Here, I'll shoot. When certain foreigners come here to Japan their ego grows ten fold because they suddenly feel like they are some kind of superstar that they never were in their home country(key word: "feel"). You're obviously one of them. You should do some soul serious soul searching and snap back to reality.

[Icarus Moonsight]

If you kids can't play nice it won't be fair to the other kids when the mods lock the pool. :(

[SplashChick]

If you kids can't play nice it won't be fair to the other kids when the mods lock the pool. :(

This really was a dumb topic anyway.

[Ed Oscuro]

Enough, all of you.

What was the topic again?

About Rendering Ranger - yeah, after some thought, it is fairly repetitive in many of the stages on foot. It's not just the first stage; later on there's a factory which is essentially a poorly signposted maze (with backtracking). Equally problematic is that a number of the bosses can be avoided (there's one in the factory especially like this).

The spaceship sections are good fun though - if the whole game had been nothing but these segments it would probably be better remembered. The run-and-gun segments had promise but overall the level design is very lacking, especially compared to previous Turrican games on the same console. I know a lot of folks don't like Super Turrican 1 & 2 but they had a lot going on.

[SplashChick]

Enough, all of you.

What was the topic again?

About Rendering Ranger - yeah, after some thought, it is fairly repetitive in many of the stages on foot. It's not just the first stage; later on there's a factory which is essentially a poorly signposted maze (with backtracking). Equally problematic is that a number of the bosses can be avoided (there's one in the factory especially like this).

The spaceship sections are good fun though - if the whole game had been nothing but these segments it would probably be better remembered. The run-and-gun segments had promise but overall the level design is very lacking, especially compared to previous Turrican games on the same console. I know a lot of folks don't like Super Turrican 1 & 2 but they had a lot going on.

Super Turrican was amazing, watchu talkin bout?

Regardless, the point being made with Rendering Ranger was its technical demonstration of the SNES' potential, and on that topic it is very impressive.

[Valkrazhor]

Super Turrican was amazing, watchu talkin bout?

Regardless, the point being made with Rendering Ranger was its technical demonstration of the SNES' potential, and on that topic it is very impressive.

I've never had a chance to play any of the Turrican games. Maybe this is the reason why I'm so in love with Rendering Ranger while most others are clowning it in terms of game play. Regardless of how good or better I may later think the Turrican series is once I finally play them though, I will still have a soft spot for Rendering Ranger and think it's a great playing game. Anyway, I've been watching videos on YouTube of Super Turrican and Mega Turrican. I couldn't find either of these in game shops here today nor could I find any release information on Wikipdedia which makes me think that they never got released in Japan. It looks like it may be a good amount of time and a few converters later that I get to play them both.

[Ed Oscuro]

At least the first Super Turrican game sure did get a Japanese release. I don't believe it's common, though.

Regardless, the point being made with Rendering Ranger was its technical demonstration of the SNES' potential, and on that topic it is very impressive.
That's fine; I was responding to Mimi's point about the game being repetitive. If you think your point got lost because of all the pointless bickering you only have yourself to blame, tbh.

[Icarus Moonsight]

As far as technical marvels that had awesome action gameplay and design, Super Turrican 2 is about as good as it gets on the SNES. I heard this before I experienced it. I got my own cart sometime last year. It blew me away. Super Aleste/Space Megaforce is lacking in the marvel side. Though it's probably the smoothest SNES shmup with the best design/gameplay I can think of.

IDK about RR. All I've heard consistently is that it looks good. I'm not against giving it a go, but I need more than that to get fired up. Judging from gameplay video, it looks like a step down to me. And it costs more than Super Turrican 2, which is fairly rare and a good game. I think it just costs more than it's worth and the ZOMG$ of it tints peoples opinion.

[SplashChick]

I've never had a chance to play any of the Turrican games. Maybe this is the reason why I'm so in love with Rendering Ranger while most others are clowning it in terms of game play. Regardless of how good or better I may later think the Turrican series is once I finally play them though, I will still have a soft spot for Rendering Ranger and think it's a great playing game. Anyway, I've been watching videos on YouTube of Super Turrican and Mega Turrican. I couldn't find either of these in game shops here today nor could I find any release information on Wikipdedia which makes me think that they never got released in Japan. It looks like it may be a good amount of time and a few converters later that I get to play them both.

Well there's always emus. I love Super Turrican because of the fast, ultra tight controls. With enough skill you can do some amazing stuff, and I love games like that.

Just a taste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwaTdxHU4l8

[Ed Oscuro]

Super Aleste/Space Megaforce is lacking in the marvel side. Though it's probably the smoothest SNES shmup with the best design/gameplay I can think of.
Never heard of R-Type III or Bio Metal?

[Icarus Moonsight]

R-Type 3, yes. Thanks, I should have been able to summon that one up in mind. :D

Bio Metal... ehh, Isn't that the one that has the awful techno infinite loop BGM? I could never get past that aspect. Really kills the game. It demands to be turned off. LOL

[Ed Oscuro]

Bio Metal only has the 2 Unlimited crap in the US release. JPN release has the happy tunage. Good stuff from Athena (makers of the shooter construction kit series Dezaemon and Daioh).

I imagine there's something better than Super Aleste in the vertical orientation but all that comes to mind is Aero Fighters - probably slightly better balanced (as it's originally an arcade game, albeit an easy one).

[Icarus Moonsight]

I've always liked the Aleste power-up systems though. Sonic Wings had a Saturn version correct? I'd be after that before the SNES one and save a little too. I'd think I'd go NeoCD even before the SNES route. MAME is always ready in the meantime. :D

Going to have to pick up BioMetal SFC JPN version then. Never got the volition to even look for an import without the crap music. From this though, I can tell I'll be able to actually play it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TBR2MQ87nI

Thanks Ed. :) You managed to get another game added to my short list. LOL

[Ed Oscuro]

Prepare to be HARMED. I get my butt kicked. Rob from Shmups forum likes it, and it's pretty brutal actually.

[Mimi Nakamura]

Just how big of a moron are you? I made that comment AFTER you ran your mouth on how "obviously inexperienced" I am for having a different opinion than you. How did you expect me to react to that? You're just digging for whatever dirt you can grasp onto. Quit while your ahead.

As for you thinking my first post was "arrogant" and "stupid", I was simply stating an opinion like everyone else here is aside from you. It's what a forum is for. The only one who is arrogant is you. Hypocrite. You're first post to me was the definition of arrogance, talking down to me from your imaginary high horse like a prick. Then you continued to let your arrogance shine when you stated that you want me to meet you up here in Tokyo where you are supposedly kicking everyones ass in Blazeblue. Why did you even add that last bit in? Do you think I or anyone else cares? And on top of all this you accuse others of being hypocrites? What a joke.

You like stereotypes? Here, I'll shoot. When certain foreigners come here to Japan their ego grows ten fold because they suddenly feel like they are some kind of superstar that they never were in their home country(key word: "feel"). You're obviously one of them. You should do some soul serious soul searching and snap back to reality.

I'm Japanese.

[badinsults]

Got to love it when Mimi starts posting in a thread. You know immediately it will turn into a flamewar because Mimi is the most intolerant person on this board. Recommendation to all: probably best to ignore her.


Back on topic, it isn't really fair to compare Super Turrican 2 and Rendering Ranger because Manfred Trenz had nothing to do with Super Turrican 2. Super Turrican 2 was developed by Factor 5. Rendering Ranger was more of a technical spectacle than a really good game (it was too hard for my tastes). On that level, RR shows off some great programming.

[The Shawn]

What on earth are you talking about? Are you claiming that I'm some kind of feminist? Out of interest, what exactly is the stereotype of a "girl gamer"?


tits or GTFO

[Valkrazhor]

Rendering Ranger was more of a technical spectacle than a really good game (it was too hard for my tastes). On that level, RR shows off some great programming.

Rendering Ranger was too hard for me at first as well until I figured out that it's all about weapon management. Now it's almost too easy, until I reach level seven that is... On a typical level I switch my weapon three times or so depending on the situation.



Equally problematic is that a number of the bosses can be avoided (there's one in the factory especially like this).

I noticed this too. You're talking about the level five "E-Walker" look-a-like boss that continuously runs into the wall right? I thought I was doing something wrong when that first happened and had found some sort of trick... Hah. Haven't ran into any other avoidable bosses aside from the level seven boss if you count ridiculously easy as being avoidable. I have yet to reach the level 8 boss or anything after so I guess I'll have to wait and see.

As for the run-n'-gun segments, I actually prefer them over the flying ones but feel like there is not enough of them in comparison. I know I'm in the minority with that though. The game was originally planned to be a traditional flying shmup the whole way through though, so that's probably why some of the running segments have problems to some.

To sum it up, Rendering Ranger can be really incredible game for some but it depends on what you're looking for. What it does good it does incredibly good. To me it's perfect and one of the best gaming experiences I've had in years. I admit I have rose colored glasses on though because everything I care most about in a game it packs in and the flaws that it does have are personally not so important to my particular taste. It's a bit of a strange concoction of a game that isn't for everyone but the few who like it more often than not love it because it's one of a kind in some ways. Because of all this I think a fair label for it would definitely be "cult classic".

Linked below is an interview with Manfred Trenz regarding Rendering Ranger. Good read.
http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=0156

[Dire 51]

Out of interest, what exactly is the stereotype of a "girl gamer"?
Here's a few to get you started:

Urban Dictionary: Girl Gamer (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=girl%20gamer)

The Top 7... Girl Gamer stereotypes (http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-top-7-girl-gamer-stereotypes/a-2008081872238575013)

And just for a laugh, because an ex-girlfriend of mine was the model for #7: 10 Reasons NOT to Date a Girl Gamer (http://gamerpaper.com/viewarticle.php?id=46)

[Sosage]

Gunstar Heroes > Every 16-bit run n' gun. Sorry. Doesn't require an explanation either. In fact, I refuse to explain this. It should just be known. Sky is blue. The sun rises in the east. Peanut Butter and Chocolate is the shit.

So does this mean Genesis wins the thread? Was this the defining factor? :P

[SplashChick]

Here's a few to get you started:

Urban Dictionary: Girl Gamer (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=girl%20gamer)

The Top 7... Girl Gamer stereotypes (http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-top-7-girl-gamer-stereotypes/a-2008081872238575013)

And just for a laugh, because an ex-girlfriend of mine was the model for #7: 10 Reasons NOT to Date a Girl Gamer (http://gamerpaper.com/viewarticle.php?id=46)

Well none of those are really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the girl who revels in the extra attention she gets for being a girl in a male dominated culture. It's never that she kicks people's asses, or does whatever achievement, or has whatever opinion, she always has to make it known that she kicks asses and is a GIRL, she got the achievement and is a GIRL, and holds this opinion while being a GIRL gamer. As if that gives her accomplishments and opinions more value.

[Sniderman]

Well none of those are really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the girl who revels in the extra attention she gets for being a girl in a male dominated culture. It's never that she kicks people's asses, or does whatever achievement, or has whatever opinion, she always has to make it known that she kicks asses and is a GIRL, she got the achievement and is a GIRL, and holds this opinion while being a GIRL gamer. As if that gives her accomplishments and opinions more value.

My red flag goes up the moment someone starts using those cute girly eastern emoticons or an assload of tildes. It screams "Lookit me! I'm a girly-girl! I need attention!"

~~tee hee!~~ (~_^)

~~oh dearie!~~ O_o

(¬_¬) ~~ i c wat u did there! ~~

[Dire 51]

Well none of those are really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the girl who revels in the extra attention she gets for being a girl in a male dominated culture. It's never that she kicks people's asses, or does whatever achievement, or has whatever opinion, she always has to make it known that she kicks asses and is a GIRL, she got the achievement and is a GIRL, and holds this opinion while being a GIRL gamer. As if that gives her accomplishments and opinions more value.
I kinda figured that's what you were talking about, but I thought I'd throw some examples out there for Mimi. :D

[Valkrazhor]

Gunstar Heroes > Every 16-bit run n' gun. Sorry. Doesn't require an explanation either. In fact, I refuse to explain this. It should just be known. Sky is blue. The sun rises in the east. Peanut Butter and Chocolate is the shit.

So does this mean Genesis wins the thread? Was this the defining factor? :P

A Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, and Contra Hard Corps sandwich should be a part of every shooter fans daily balanced breakfast. I got one sitting on my shelf right now!

Pretty much the breakdown:
King of RPG's and platformers = Super Nintendo: Zelda: LttP, Final Fantasy 2-3, Super Metroid, Super Mario World
King of shooters = Genesis: Undeadline, Twinkle Tale, Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Contra Hard Corps, V-V, Eliminate Down

Both are champs in what they do best and both have their exceptional games which prove the above stereotypes wrong but hey, generalizing is fun.

A few stereotype breakers:
Great SNES shooters: Axelay, R-Type 3, Space Megaforce, Spriggan Powered, Rendering Ranger, Contra 3
Great Genesis RPG's and others: Phantasy Star IV, Shinobi, Shinobi 3, Shadow Dancer, Streets of Rage 1-3, Comix Zone

I should add that there were many games which when ported to the SNES and Genesis, the Genesis version was champ. So this is something to consider as well. For example: Cool Spot and Mortal Kombat 2.

How the hell could anyone choose just one? Impossible for me. Though I think it's easy to argue that the Super Nintendo has the edge when it comes down to overall quality of its games on average on when speaking in terms of anything other than shooters. It just does variety better in my opinion. To me the Genesis is more specialized. It does shooters kind of like how the Neo-Geo does fighters, only not as extreme of a case as that. Which is why it's a system with more of a cult die hard fan base when compared to the Super Nintendo. Definitely not as much of a mainstream affair. Like I said in another thread, when I have casual gamer friends come over to the house their eyes go directly to the Super Famicom not the Genesis. Most people who I talk to today here in Tokyo don't even know what the Mega Drive(Genesis) is when I talk about it unless they are really into games. They all know what the Super Famicom is though, even the younger people. I think the Genesis was actually more successful in America than it was in Japan but I didn't dig up any numbers on that yet. The Genesis being a bit cult is part of its allure for me though, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Mimi Nakamura]

Here's a few to get you started:

Urban Dictionary: Girl Gamer (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=girl%20gamer)

The Top 7... Girl Gamer stereotypes (http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-top-7-girl-gamer-stereotypes/a-2008081872238575013)

And just for a laugh, because an ex-girlfriend of mine was the model for #7: 10 Reasons NOT to Date a Girl Gamer (http://gamerpaper.com/viewarticle.php?id=46)

An interesting read!

I think Japan and America / Europe are quite different when it comes to female gamers. Of course, it's still mostly men / boys that play games here, but there are so many female gamers too. All kinds of people play games here, young or old, male or female, nerdy or cool. It's impossible to make a stereotype.

[Mimi Nakamura]

Well none of those are really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the girl who revels in the extra attention she gets for being a girl in a male dominated culture. It's never that she kicks people's asses, or does whatever achievement, or has whatever opinion, she always has to make it known that she kicks asses and is a GIRL, she got the achievement and is a GIRL, and holds this opinion while being a GIRL gamer. As if that gives her accomplishments and opinions more value.

You're making such a strong assumption based upon my comment about playing Blazblue? Firstly, Blazblue is played by just as many girls as it is by guys. Secondly, feminist attitudes are VERY rare in Japan - foreigners often complain about the lack of feminism in Japan!

As for ever being in any situation where you get extra attention for being a girl - all girls find themselves in this situation from time to time, find me a girl who doesn't ever enjoy it or doesn't ever use it to her advantage!

[Mimi Nakamura]

A Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, and Contra Hard Corps sandwich should be a part of every shooter fans daily balanced breakfast. I got one sitting right on my shelf right now!

Pretty much the breakdown:
King of RPG's and platformers = Super Nintendo: Zelda: LttP, Final Fantasy 2-3, Super Metroid, Super Mario World
King of shooters = Genesis: Undeadline, Twinkle Tale, Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Contra Hard Corps, V-V, Eliminate Down

Both are champs in what they do best and both have their exceptional games which prove the above stereotypes wrong but hey, generalizing is fun.

A few stereotype breakers:
Great SNES shooters: Axelay, R-Type 3, Space Megaforce, Spriggan Powered, Rendering Ranger, Contra 3
Great Genesis RPG's and others: Phantasy Star IV, Shinobi, Shinobi 3, Shadow Dancer, Streets of Rage 1-3, Comix Zone

I should add that there were many games which when ported to the SNES and Genesis, the Genesis version was champ. So this is something to consider as well. For example: Cool Spot and Mortal Kombat 2.

How the hell could anyone choose just one? Impossible for me. Though I think it's easy to argue that the Super Nintendo has the edge when it comes down to overall quality of its games on average on when speaking in terms of anything other than shooters. It just does variety better in my opinion. To me the Genesis is more specialized. It does shooters kind of like how the Neo-Geo does fighters, only not as extreme of a case as that. Which is why it's a system with more of a cult die hard fan base when compared to the Super Nintendo. Definitely not as much of a mainstream affair. Like I said in another thread, when I have casual gamer friends come over to the house their eyes go directly to the Super Famicom not the Genesis. Most people who I talk to today here in Tokyo don't even know what the Mega Drive(Genesis) is when I talk about it unless they are really into games. They all know what the Super Famicom is though, even the younger people. I think the Genesis was actually more successful in America than it was in Japan but I didn't dig up any numbers on that yet. The Genesis being a bit cult is part of its allure for me though, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah, the Mega Drive wasn't a success in Japan. I was living in London when the Mega Drive was released and it was the system that everyone wanted for Christmas. Whenever I had to go to Japan I was surprised at how there wasn't even half as much interest in the MD.

Everyone of my generation knows what a Super Famicom is but very few know about the Mega Drive.

[tomaitheous]

Pretty much the breakdown:
King of RPG's and platformers = Super Nintendo: Zelda: LttP, Final Fantasy 2-3, Super Metroid, Super Mario World
King of shooters = Genesis: Undeadline, Twinkle Tale, Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Contra Hard Corps, V-V, Eliminate Down

Please. STOP. Don't put run 'n gun with shmups. Shooters used to mean exactly the term shmups and it still does, unless you're some teenager that didn't grow up in the 8/16bit generation.

On a related note; Contra for the Genesis is 'meh'. It's like Gunstar meets Contra, but without much substances. Coming from a Genesis fan, I don't really like the game all that much.



Also, if I were a gamer girl - I wouldn't tell anybody. Guys(boys) are such idiots/assholes. They either annoyingly try 'white knight' or just the opposite and pick on/harass them. It's a no win situation :/

[Icarus Moonsight]

Also, if I were a gamer girl - I wouldn't tell anybody. Guys(boys) are such idiots/assholes. They either annoyingly try 'white knight' or just the opposite and pick on/harass them. It's a no win situation :/

This gave me flashbacks to many a battle.net drama I was either peripheral to, pulled into, suckered into or forced upon. Thanks. :p

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

On a related note; Contra for the Genesis is 'meh'. It's like Gunstar meets Contra, but without much substances. Coming from a Genesis fan, I don't really like the game all that much.

And here all this time I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the game. Honestly couldn't stand it or the direction it was taking Contra into at that time, with the wolf character, the robot, and the overall cartoonish feel, ect. Just hated the game period.

[Dire 51]

On a related note; Contra for the Genesis is 'meh'. It's like Gunstar meets Contra, but without much substances. Coming from a Genesis fan, I don't really like the game all that much.

And here all this time I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the game. Honestly couldn't stand it or the direction it was taking Contra into at that time, with the wolf character, the robot, and the overall cartoonish feel, ect. Just hated the game period.
I don't hate it, but Hard Corps was the game that caused me to start disconnecting from the Contra series. All it was was boss battles broken up by the occasional run 'n gun segment. That's fine for Alien Soldier, but this is Contra we're talking about here.

This is also the reason I didn't like Contra Shattered Soldier as much as I wanted to. It felt like Contra: Hard Corps redux. As such, both are among my least favorite Contra games - but I still like them both more than a couple of PS1 abominations that need not be named.

[Ed Oscuro]

My red flag goes up the moment someone starts using those cute girly eastern emoticons or an assload of tildes.
Oh no, I wouldn't want red poles to inappropriately go up to Snidey's displeasure.

^__~

Secondly, feminist attitudes are VERY rare in Japan - foreigners often complain about the lack of feminism in Japan!
This is true. It might be changing a bit but it's definitely true. In fact my Japanese professor this term was reminding me ever so slightly of Phyllis Schlafly, in taking a moment to explain that she thought that (if I remember this right) one term meant something close to "person in the back of the household" and that it was a term of privilege. I don't take issue or anything, but it's an unusual sort of remark to hear in the U.S.

Please. STOP. Don't put run 'n gun with shmups. Shooters used to mean exactly the term shmups and it still does, unless you're some teenager that didn't grow up in the 8/16bit generation.
I use the same terms you do, but as long as I understand what somebody else is talking about - well, that's about all one can ask I guess.

Interesting comments about Contra HC: I found myself not liking the run-and-gun segments because they were comparatively flat and unengaging. There's some good stuff, but the cartoony look and too-whimsical presentation doesn't make me feel very attached to it. It's a game I'm still glad to have, however.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Riding the Tangential: When I hear "back" in that instance, I think spine, not rear. Structure and stability of absolute prime importance. :)

resume game stuff... Now. LOL

Contra Hard Corps, the redheaded step child. It's twitchy enough for me to enjoy one in a while. It's better than Contra Force at least. :p I know, may not be fair, but it has the label. It did much more disservice than HC ever thought of.

[genesisguy]

Username:Genesisguy
Age:27
Choice: Genesis
Reasoning: It's what I had growing up. I still have my original Genesis console and wouldn't trade that away. I'm not going to get into the whole Genesis vs Snes battle. I did that when I was 9. in grade school, and on a playground! You whipper snappers have no idea what a console war is. I lost friends in that war! We were lucky to get 2 new games a year so of course we had to argue about which console was better. Picking your 16 bit console and thinking you made a wise choice when you were a grade schooler was something you had to defend.

Today I feel the SNES and Genesis are on the same side.

[Black_Tiger]

Wow, the fanboys on either side are the ones who are way off with some of their extreme and/or self-serving comments. Neither system destroys the other. It's all about the actual games and both have great libraries that have different strengths and the only way that one is better than the other is how they suite personal tastes.

If you're a real RPG (Shining Force, Snatcher and Zelda don't count) fan, then the SNES will likely be more fun for you overall (and the PC Engine even more so), but there's still enough cool RPGs for Genesis/Sega-CD.

It can be argued that certain consoles from other generations don't have as strong libraries as competing systems, but the 16-bit generation has three consoles with strong and large libraries that are more different than better than each other.

Separate from actual game quality, all three 16-bit consoles are also evenly matched when it comes to graphics in actual games (not just theoretical potential), again having different strengths that balance overall.

[SplashChick]

Wow, the fanboys on either side are the ones who are way off with some of their extreme and/or self-serving comments. Neither system destroys the other. It's all about the actual games and both have great libraries that have different strengths and the only way that one is better than the other is how they suite personal tastes.

If you're a real RPG (Shining Force, Snatcher and Zelda don't count) fan, then the SNES will likely be more fun for you overall (and the PC Engine even more so), but there's still enough cool RPGs for Genesis/Sega-CD.

It can be argued that certain consoles from other generations don't have as strong libraries as competing systems, but the 16-bit generation has three consoles with strong and large libraries that are more different than better than each other.

Separate from actual game quality, all three 16-bit consoles are also evenly matched when it comes to graphics in actual games (not just theoretical potential), again having different strengths that balance overall.

Uh, sorry, but saying that all three of the system's hardware is just as good as the others is just wishful thinking.

And how does Snatcher not count? It's entirely a text based RPG aside from the few shooting segments.

[Sniderman]

Oh no, I wouldn't want red poles to inappropriately go up to Snidey's displeasure.

^__~

Sit -n- spin, Eddie. Sit -n- spin.

http://i46.tinypic.com/9gisua.jpg

[Icarus Moonsight]

Uh, sorry, but saying that all three of the system's hardware is just as good as the others is just wishful thinking.

And how does Snatcher not count? It's entirely a text based RPG aside from the few shooting segments.

It's an interactive graphic novel, really. Text-based RPG is stuff like Zork, Red Dragon or even Rogue (technically, since ASCII is text)...

Regarding Black Tiger's post: I'll always hold that the 16-bitters were the universally awesome era of gaming. Including the Neo Geo AES in that also. My preference hierarchy is; Genny > PC-E/Turbo > Neo Geo > SNES with the caveat that the hierarchy is solely based on varying personal resonating degrees of awesome. So, yeah. Complete agreement. :D

[Gameguy]

And how does Snatcher not count? It's entirely a text based RPG aside from the few shooting segments.
It's a visual novel with a few shooting segments. Visual novels are a type of menu based adventure game, I don't understand why so many people think of Snatcher as an RPG. Same with Zelda games, they're action adventure games, not RPGs.

[tom]

I don't think the original poster ever posted here in this topic again.

[Daria]

If you're a real RPG (Shining Force, Snatcher and Zelda don't count) fan, then the SNES will likely be more fun for you overall...

I have a confession. I'm not really into the Super Nintendo. Which considering I love and collect RPGs doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sure I liked Chrono Trigger, but I love my Genesis.

And Snatcher's not an RPG. Shining Force is though.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I don't think the original poster ever posted here in this topic again.

He basically set up a roach motel thread. Like someones else said, paraphrased, his auto-parser is going to only pull <10% of the thread content.

[SplashChick]

It's a visual novel with a few shooting segments. Visual novels are a type of menu based adventure game, I don't understand why so many people think of Snatcher as an RPG. Same with Zelda games, they're action adventure games, not RPGs.

"Visual novel" is not a genre. It's a text based RPG. How is it anything else? Literally the only difference between Snatcher and most other text based RPGs are that Snatcher has graphics and the occasional shooting sequence.