Morality, ethics, steals and deals of collecting

[Gameguy]

I don't see how it's any of your business what a customer does with the product that you're selling. I've bought and sold games before, but I never ask a person what they are going to do with it.
Then why do some major retail stores impose limits on the number of items you can buy? Like sale offers that limit the number you can get(limit 4 per person, etc), in theory they shouldn't care who buys it as long as they get their asking price. They do it to discourage people from buying all the stock and flipping it for a quick profit.

Anyway, all that it affects for me is the amount I ask for, if anyone is going to make any money on a game, why shouldn't it be me instead of that reseller? I'm not against people who make a living buying and selling games, a friend of mine is a vendor and I try to help him out whenever I can. He's always been honest with me and plenty of times he's offered me more for games than dedicated collectors have, even when he tells me he just wants the game to sell again. I'd rather sell a game to him than some other guy who'd just ebay it. He's a great guy, unlike some other collectors who ask to haggle something down and then sell it across the room 30 seconds later for more than my original asking price.

[jb143]

Then why do some major retail stores impose limits on the number of items you can buy? Like sale offers that limit the number you can get(limit 4 per person, etc), in theory they shouldn't care who buys it as long as they get their asking price. They do it to discourage people from buying all the stock and flipping it for a quick profit.


They really don't care, and many places will let you get more than the limit. It all goes in their pockets anyways so it doesn't matter to them. The only reason they do that is because people who get there late would complain that they're out otherwise. Stores don't like complainers. Ask anyone who works in retail...more often than not the complainers end up getting what they want. So the stores put imaginary limits on things so the complaining customers will be happy that there are still sale items left.

[yoshilime53]

Ok, Here's what i think:

it terms of getting a steal, its fine. If you get say, Nintendo World Championship 1990 for 5.50, would you say to the seller "hey man, this is worth millions, can you raise the price for me?" isnt it just the same as when you buy food on sale at the supermarket? in terms of site glitches, im not sure. in terms of karma and feeling right, i wouldnt do it.

[Diatribal Deity]

Just an update on the Microsoft Store glitch...

Evidently (as documented on some other forums and sites) there were a bunch of others who were aware of the glitch and put in their orders. Multiple copies of the games were shipped along with the live cards. However, the systems were oversold and many just received the freebies and no system. Because they were charging for the system, those that were delayed have not gotten charged yet. It will be interesting to see what happens if they are unable to obtain any more systems. Contacting different store reps have resulted in varying responses ranging from ""you can just keep them unless you cancel your order" to escalated responses to those who canceled and were told they "can keep them anyway as it was the store's error". Alternate bundles with additional games and discounts have also been offered apparantly on an individual basis.

Bottom line is you could have ended up with $700 (msrp) in freebies with an outside chance they could cancel your order and let you keep them, or worst case scenario offer an alternative bundle with additional games and a discounted price.

What a mess...

[Icarus Moonsight]

It's Microsoft, they specialize in profiting from screwing stuff up. They'll come out ahead somehow.LOL

[Cornelius]

I buy cheap games all the time with the point of reselling them. Seriously, who actually still plays old consoles except for collectors and for nostalgia? It isn't like some kid who's main console is the Saturn that has been looking everywhere for DragonForce.

Not Saturn maybe, but plenty of kids still buy and play n64 games. Those seem to me to be the 'old' games that are still in demand by the (poor) gaming public (not counting last gen stuff that still fits the Modern category).

I still buy any type of game that is worth flipping, though. It is a lame argument, but if I pass on it odds are another flipper will just snag it anyway. I know that's just the old 'everyone else is doing it' line, but if I knew that Mario 64 cart was going to get bought by a kid that'd play it, I'd be a lot more inclined to leave it. On the other hand, Harvest Moon 64 or Ogre Battle is coming home with me either way.

I'll also echo others' sentiments about pricing stuff I sell. I price things trying to hit the range that will turn any reseller away, but will still be a good deal for the end consumer compared to eBay. And if it is clearly someone that is going to play the games and doesn't care if it is an expensive game or not, I'll often throw in extras. Yesterday I gave a girl SNES Lion King since it was on her list, she just had a fixed amount of money; helped her NOT buy Yoshi's Safari since it is a Scope game. I definitely give repeat customers breaks, too. This is on CL, on eBay I tend to do auctions with a .99 starting price, or if it may go pretty low, then at a starting price I'll be satisfied with.

[nebrazca78]

i must be if i dont agree with you right? at least i give others the maneuvering room to live their lives as they see fit, i dont preach to others and condemn them because they wont think like i think, i dont have that right, no one does, but u seem to think its ok to dictate what is right and what is wrong in absolute terms. my way is not the only way, it is as the name implies...MY way, i dont pass out judgements to anyone that deviates from my way of thinking but its ok fof you tho, cuz im going to hell and you're going to heaven so it'll all work itself out in the end amirite?

Not everyone that I disagree with is a scumbag. But you seem to be. Where do you draw the line on "maneuvering room"? You say you don't pass out judgments to people who deviate from your way of thinking, does this include murderers and rapists? Or are you one yourself? Whether or not I think you're going to hell, which I don't, doesn't matter anyway. But I am allowed an opinion, which I have already stated. You remind me of Eric Cartman.



pffffffft, wheres your morality now :angel:

Same place as it was before. Right here.





low by your standards, finders keepers


and for the sake of clarity, i dont mean like some guy dropping a hundred dollar bill and i hop over a counter run full speed and tackle him out of the way like "mine mine!!!"

but if he drops it and i see him drop it, and he walks away, pffffft, fuck that guy, its my money now chump :(

Total Cartman move.




/last non-game related post in this thread

[TRM]

Eh, I have mixed feelings on these kinds of things.

If I was at a yard sale, thrift, etc and I bought a game console which had a game inside it, I would not think a thing...I would figure that it just came with the console, not necessarily that the seller forgot to remove it, and this may very well have been the case. I mean, it seems reasonable to sell the stuff as a package deal, imo.

Taking advantages of glitches online or people who play the system, I don't think that this is really so honest. I personally despise people who do this sort of thing. I remember reading a few days ago about people who "bought" tons of dollar coins from the US mint, charged them to their credit card to receive tons of frequent flier points, and then returned all of the coins to the bank so that they could pay off their credit card bills. The programme was designed so to get the dollar coins in circulation (gotta love parts of Europe and Canada!), but these people were just using and abusing the system to benefit themselves...when I first read this I thought to myself, why didn't I think of this, as I love to travel and am poor, but on the same time, I was pissed because I get tired of seeing people playing the system.

Eh, games in thrifts and fleas and the like. If I can grab it for cheap and it is worth something, I will do so, and then try to flip it. Usually I don't run into anything good in my area anyway, but if I do, I also use the justification of "If I don't grab it, someone else will grab and flip it." I really don't like the practice of flipping, and get sick of seeing people on eBay for example, listing items way above market price, sitting for months on end for sale, when I just want to play the game and pay a fair price. However, I need my beer money so if I can make an extra $30 here or there, then so be it. My one exception tends to be with really young children and older folks. I really don't care what others think on the matter, but to exploit people in these categories is horrible. If you are a teenager or a middle aged person, then you should know better, but young children and the elderly...well that is a different story.

[jaekwon15]

is it unethical to purchase a game that is mislabled. i thought i was getting a good deal on Haunting Ground (used) for ps2. it was marked as six dollars. but when it rang up at the register, thats when i noticed it was marked as a NASCAR game.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Some would say it's completely ethical, as long as it was Gamestop... :D

Paying marked prices, even when improperly marked falls into aesthetics. Either way, you're fine ethically. Point out the error if you like, or just buy it without saying anything. You can even raise a stink if they notice the error and attempt to correct it at point-of-sale, since it's a little dishonest to ask one price on the shelf and another at the register. Do whatever makes you happier.

[Zthun]

is it unethical to purchase a game that is mislabled. i thought i was getting a good deal on Haunting Ground (used) for ps2. it was marked as six dollars. but when it rang up at the register, thats when i noticed it was marked as a NASCAR game.

Normally, it's good store policy to give the customer the deal if an item is mislabeled.

[pseudonym]

Eh, I have mixed feelings on these kinds of things.

If I was at a yard sale, thrift, etc and I bought a game console which had a game inside it, I would not think a thing...I would figure that it just came with the console, not necessarily that the seller forgot to remove it, and this may very well have been the case. I mean, it seems reasonable to sell the stuff as a package deal, imo.

Taking advantages of glitches online or people who play the system, I don't think that this is really so honest. I personally despise people who do this sort of thing. I remember reading a few days ago about people who "bought" tons of dollar coins from the US mint, charged them to their credit card to receive tons of frequent flier points, and then returned all of the coins to the bank so that they could pay off their credit card bills. The programme was designed so to get the dollar coins in circulation (gotta love parts of Europe and Canada!), but these people were just using and abusing the system to benefit themselves...when I first read this I thought to myself, why didn't I think of this, as I love to travel and am poor, but on the same time, I was pissed because I get tired of seeing people playing the system.

Eh, games in thrifts and fleas and the like. If I can grab it for cheap and it is worth something, I will do so, and then try to flip it. Usually I don't run into anything good in my area anyway, but if I do, I also use the justification of "If I don't grab it, someone else will grab and flip it." I really don't like the practice of flipping, and get sick of seeing people on eBay for example, listing items way above market price, sitting for months on end for sale, when I just want to play the game and pay a fair price. However, I need my beer money so if I can make an extra $30 here or there, then so be it. My one exception tends to be with really young children and older folks. I really don't care what others think on the matter, but to exploit people in these categories is horrible. If you are a teenager or a middle aged person, then you should know better, but young children and the elderly...well that is a different story.

I agree with you, but I don't see how it's any less moral to exploit children or the elderly than teens or the middle-aged. If you see that $50 game that they're asking $10 for, and you say, "I'll give you $5 for it", it's still pretty low no matter the age IMO.

[TRM]

I agree with you, but I don't see who it's any less moral to exploit children or the elderly than teens or the middle-aged. If you see that $50 game that they're asking $10 for, and you say, "I'll give you $5 for it", it's still pretty low no matter the age IMO.

Sure, I would agree with that. My bias for protection of children and elderly probably comes from having a grandmother, who has been taking advantage of over the phone by some magazine companies a few times over the past few years. Why would my non-business oriented grandmother subscribe to Entrepreneur magazine? Yet it showed up at the door step...

I guess what I am saying is that these two groups of people I find to be more easily exploited than teens and middle aged people, as a whole anyway, and thus I think they need a little more protection.

[portnoyd]

If you see that $50 game that they're asking $10 for, and you say, "I'll give you $5 for it", it's still pretty low no matter the age IMO.

Really? Based on this and other posts, I am glad I pled the

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[Cornelius]

When dealing with children, yes, the rules are different. Society simply has different ethical standards with children, as it is generally acknowledged that they need to be afforded extra protections. If an 8 year old child is selling his grandma's antique/valuable silver for pocket change, it is incumbent upon you to make sure their parent/guardian is aware of what is happening. Yes, the parent should be and if they aren't aware, well, that's probably bad parenting, but it is still no grounds to take advantage. If the parents are cool with it, fine, clean them out. Otherwise I'd consider it a hair away from stealing. Video games are the same, although often the kids know more about their value than the parents. At garage sales, sometimes kids will have their own little tables they are manning, and I'll always make sure an adult is paying attention or ask if their parents know they are selling their gameboy stuff.

[jaekwon15]

When dealing with children, yes, the rules are different. Society simply has different ethical standards with children, as it is generally acknowledged that they need to be afforded extra protections. If an 8 year old child is selling his grandma's antique/valuable silver for pocket change, it is incumbent upon you to make sure their parent/guardian is aware of what is happening. Yes, the parent should be and if they aren't aware, well, that's probably bad parenting, but it is still no grounds to take advantage. If the parents are cool with it, fine, clean them out. Otherwise I'd consider it a hair away from stealing. Video games are the same, although often the kids know more about their value than the parents. At garage sales, sometimes kids will have their own little tables they are manning, and I'll always make sure an adult is paying attention or ask if their parents know they are selling their gameboy stuff.

i was visiting my 15 year old cousin when i noticed he had Prototype for 360. its a game ive always wanted to play but didnt have the cash to buy it when it came out.

anyways, i asked if i could play it and he said, "that game sucks. ill sell it to you for 10 dollars." i knew that was a great deal, and he was must have really needed the money, so i gave him 15 dollars. prior to the final purchase i did ask his parents if it was okay for him to sell it to me. they didnt mind.

i got a rather new game for a price that no one would currently sell it for. but i gave him 15 which is what he would get in store credit at game stop. and i got permission from his parents. i think the whole thing was perfectly ethical.

btw, the next day i found out he chews tobacco, and that he needed the money to buy more chew. if i had known thats what he needed the money for, i wouldnt have bought it off of him. or at least give him a good lecture about it before buying it.

thanks for the responses Icarus and Zthun. i wasnt sure if it was ethical, but when you put it that way, it makes perfect sense.

[TonyTheTiger]

btw, the next day i found out he chews tobacco, and that he needed the money to buy more chew.

Who does that anymore? That reminds me of the time I saw a kid in my college dorm smoking a pipe. I was like "lolwut?"

[jaekwon15]

Who does that anymore? That reminds me of the time I saw a kid in my college dorm smoking a pipe. I was like "lolwut?"

lol. you'd be surprised. my cousin lives in a small town where kids often chew. my bro and i grew up there and started chewing around the same age. i guess its easier to hide than smoking cigarettes.

[dbiersdorf]

I'll go ahead and post a story of my own, which might cause some people to look down on my reputation, but I'd like to hear what people think about it.

A couple years ago I found someone who was selling a rare Nintendo 64 controller, I never had any desire to own one but I knew they were worth a bit of money. I'm not sure if the seller really knew the true value of it because they are so uncommon and have little info on the internet about them. I managed to buy it from him for about $60... meanwhile I had found someone online who had been looking for one for a while and I told him that I had obtained one. He was willing to pay $200. So I had the new buyer pay, me which I in turn used to pay the original seller. I just simply gave the new buyers address to the other guy and he mailed it directly to him (while thinking it was my address). In the end it ended up fine on all ends and everyone was pleased with the results without knowing they were actually doing a transaction with one another.

Was being an agent like position wrong? Should I have told them what was actually going on?

[BetaWolf47]

Was being an agent like position wrong? Should I have told them what was actually going on?

Depends on the original seller's thoughts about getting a mysterious $200 payment in the mail if you ask me...

[dbiersdorf]

Depends on the original seller's thoughts about getting a mysterious $200 payment in the mail if you ask me...

No it wasn't like that, basically I was paid $200 via PayPal, I PayPal'd the original seller $60 and I pocketed $140. That's why I thought maybe the ethics would come in to question.

[Gameguy]

No it wasn't like that, basically I was paid $200 via PayPal, I PayPal'd the original seller $60 and I pocketed $140. That's why I thought maybe the ethics would come in to question.
Only thing that bothers me with that is you arranged to sell something that wasn't in your possession at the time.

Reminds me of some local reseller, he kept buying games off me because he arranged to sell them to other people first. He was like, "I need to pick those up from you right now!! I'm supposed to meet with the guy later tonight!!." It just got on my nerves that I'd have to rush and meet with him whenever he contacted me because he already arranged to meet with someone else later. It was like every couple of days, or even a few days in a row when I'd have to keep meeting with him. I didn't mind him reselling the games since they were really worn loose Genesis games and he'd get several at a time, but I didn't let him return any when people backed out on him or give him any further discounts since he'd already be profiting on them. If they were still working, he could sell them himself if he didn't want them anymore, not try to return them to me. I haven't sold anything to him in ages, I don't think he kept up with reselling.

[TRM]

Only thing that bothers me with that is you arranged to sell something that wasn't in your possession at the time.

Reminds me of some local reseller, he kept buying games off me because he arranged to sell them to other people first. He was like, "I need to pick those up from you right now!! I'm supposed to meet with the guy later tonight!!." It just got on my nerves that I'd have to rush and meet with him whenever he contacted me because he already arranged to meet with someone else later. It was like every couple of days, or even a few days in a row when I'd have to keep meeting with him. I didn't mind him reselling the games since they were really worn loose Genesis games and he'd get several at a time, but I didn't let him return any when people backed out on him or give him any further discounts since he'd already be profiting on them. If they were still working, he could sell them himself if he didn't want them anymore, not try to return them to me. I haven't sold anything to him in ages, I don't think he kept up with reselling.

Yeah that would be my only concern as well. The more people involved in a transaction, the easier it is that something can go wrong, and then someone is stuck.

[pseudonym]

portnoyd: I'm not up to date on these new-fangled image macros, so I'm not entirely sure what that means. Everyone's free do it as they see fit, it's just not something I would do myself.

When I've arrive at a flea market/yard sale/etc. late and I see the someone trying to haggle with the seller over an item that's already a good deal, I've gotten the item before by offering to pay what the seller wanted in the first place. It's probably shady by some people's standards, maybe that's another moral issue for this thread...

[Icarus Moonsight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxE_oQBwrdU

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Not everyone that I disagree with is a scumbag. But you seem to be. Where do you draw the line on "maneuvering room"? You say you don't pass out judgments to people who deviate from your way of thinking, does this include murderers and rapists? Or are you one yourself? Whether or not I think you're going to hell, which I don't, doesn't matter anyway. But I am allowed an opinion, which I have already stated. You remind me of Eric Cartman.



Same place as it was before. Right here.




lol then wtf would u suggest? i start a nationwide manhunt to track down the guy and give him back his fuckin hundred dollar bill he probably didnt even realize he dropped till he got home? or maybe i should give it to the lost and found guy in the hopes that he wont just keep it for himself and spend it all on hookers?

lol get the fuck off your moral high horse


p.s. i never said you werent allowed an opnion, but u seem to be under the impression that yours is the only one that matters, what you believe is the absolute right, the world isnt black and white, every rule has exceptions, i acknowledge that fact, you do not, because in your make believe fairy tale land, you can do no wrong, and everyone else isnt worthy of breathing the same air as you


Total Cartman move.




/last non-game related post in this thread



ol then wtf would u suggest? i start a nationwide manhunt to track down the guy and give him back his fuckin hundred dollar bill he probably didnt even realize he dropped till he got home? or maybe i should give it to the lost and found guy in the hopes that he wont just keep it for himself and spend it all on hookers?

lol get the fuck off your moral high horse


p.s. i never said you werent allowed an opnion, but u seem to be under the impression that yours is the only one that matters, what you believe is the absolute right, the world isnt black and white, every rule has exceptions, i acknowledge that fact, you do not, because in your make believe fairy tale land, you can do no wrong, and everyone else isnt worthy of breathing the same air as you

[Ed Oscuro]

ol then wtf would u suggest? i start a nationwide manhunt to track down the guy and give him back his fuckin hundred dollar bill he probably didnt even realize he dropped till he got home?
For starters, you could not have been a thieving little bastard in the first place (let alone make it a point of pride).

[TonyTheTiger]

the world isnt black and white, every rule has exceptions, i acknowledge that fact, you do not, because in your make believe fairy tale land, you can do no wrong, and everyone else isnt worthy of breathing the same air as you

Second, you could stop trying to rationalize actions that are, yes, black and white criminal behavior. You can't pull the "gray area" card when it's plainly obvious why it's a crime.

[Daria]

Ok. I have a confession that's pretty bad. AT least by this thread's standards.

I was at a flea market once and spotted a Game Gear. I picked it up, was looking it over and the lady told me it was $50. So I said no thanks and handed it back to her. As I did so, I "palmed" the cart that was in the system and slid it out as she took the Game Gear back. My friends and I got a couple booths down before I even looked to see what game I had grabbed. Turned out to be Bust a Move (edit: sorry sometimes I get Bubble Bobble and Bust A Move confused).

It was some real slight of hand shit. And because we'd hadn't slept the night before it had seemed like the funniest shit ever at the time. But yeah... not so much now.

[TonyTheTiger]

Considering the size of Game Gear carts, that's actually pretty impressive. Very wrong. But impressive.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I think everyone goes through a phase where they test the bounds of conventional morality in some shape or form. A group of friends and I became quite good shoplifters...

The problem I see, is the existing moral code itself, or specifically, the laws that are claimed to be based on moral arguments. There are many contradictions within them. Young people realize this, whether they can cite them explicitly or not, and with the prevailing winds of nihilism and postmodern materialist philosophies, people just stop caring about what is right. Because we are told that there is no such thing after having poor moral instruction from the beginning. And at one point, some of us actually believe it. Then some never grow out of it...

[LaughingMAN.S9]

For starters, you could not have been a thieving little bastard in the first place (let alone make it a point of pride).

why not?





Second, you could stop trying to rationalize actions that are, yes, black and white criminal behavior. You can't pull the "gray area" card when it's plainly obvious why it's a crime.


a guy dropping a hundred dollar bill then walking away is black and white? so by that train of thought, anyone who has ever found anything ever, anywhere at anytime should be held without trial and executed by firing squad. yes? this is moral now correct? wasnt theirs to begin with, they didnt purchase it? yes? am i in the clear now?

[gum_drops]

a guy dropping a hundred dollar bill then walking away is black and white?

What if it wasn't cash but instead say an ipod, and they didn't drop it but left it behind at a park bench and started walking off. Would you take it or pick it up and go return it to them?

I am just curious where you draw the line, that is assuming there is a line.

[TonyTheTiger]

a guy dropping a hundred dollar bill then walking away is black and white?

If you see him do it, yes. End of story. Unless you can prove that he willingly abandoned the property. And, considering the value of a $100 bill, you'll never be able to do that. This isn't like just finding money on the street with no idea of where it came from. That's the key difference you seem to be ignoring.


so by that train of thought, anyone who has ever found anything ever, anywhere at anytime should be held without trial and executed by firing squad. yes? this is moral now correct?

lolstrawman.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

What if it wasn't cash but instead say an ipod, and they didn't drop it but left it behind at a park bench and started walking off. Would you take it or pick it up and go return it to them?

I am just curious where you draw the line, that is assuming there is a line.


there are no black and whites for me, everything is case by case, there are alot of factors.

including but not limited to:
1. what generation ipod?
2. how much storage space?
3. was it a kid or someone comparable that would evoke the same feelings? (read, cripples, poor people etc.)
4. do i prefer cowon to apple?
5. was it a girl who dropped it? if so, was she cute, if answer is yes, could i use the flagging down and pointing out of said "abandoned" ipod as a jumping off point to start conversation that will lead to sex?



the list goes on, but in general, if it looks like its a guy who could probably afford one, im taking it, fuck that guy, if its a kid, i'd give it back, cuz even satan celebrates christmas every now and again, if its a girl, i swear to god im not joking about this, if she's not what i deem physically attractive, once again, that shit is mine, if they look poor, i'll give i'd probably give it to them....unless i knew someone who wanted one then i'd probably just give it to them instead :(



THE END.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

If you see him do it, yes. End of story. Unless you can prove that he willingly abandoned the property. And, considering the value of a $100 bill, you'll never be able to do that. This isn't like just finding money on the street with no idea of where it came from. That's the key difference you seem to be ignoring.



lolstrawman.



no my friend, YOU seem to be the one to be ignoring the time tested maxim, of "finders keepers, losers nazis" i seriously and personally do not care if they dropped it by accident or on purpose, point is, THEY dropped it, i didnt physically go into their pockets to pull it out, that would be a clear cut case of petty larceny/theft whatever.


im not arguing whether or not its a law, i dont even wanna argue the merits of that law as i feel i've made my feelings on it abundantly clear, whether or not its a law is not going to stop me from going for it because THAT particular law can suck THIS particular dick.


that has to be one of the most bullshit laws in history, laughingman does not agree and thus laughingman will not comply, hundred dollars on the streets, its anybodys grab. i'd only give it back if i thought they looked like they really needed the money, they seemed like nice people, they were children, or they were eskimos, cuz those fuckin eskimos tend to get the shit end of the stick more often than not, its about time they caught a break, and thats just my 2 cents...in eskimo money :(

[Gameguy]

no my friend, YOU seem to be the one to be ignoring the time tested maxim, of "finders keepers, losers nazis" i seriously and personally do not care if they dropped it by accident or on purpose, point is, THEY dropped it, i didnt physically go into their pockets to pull it out, that would be a clear cut case of petty larceny/theft whatever.
It is stealing if you know who it belongs to, if they dropped their wallet or forgot their briefcase you couldn't just keep it. Life isn't an adventure game where you can take anything that isn't nailed down. It's like stealing a bike and saying it wasn't stealing because it wasn't locked up, it was just left in front of a store "abandoned".

[Ed Oscuro]

anyone who has ever found anything ever, anywhere at anytime should be held without trial and executed by firing squad. yes? this is moral now correct? wasnt theirs to begin with, they didnt purchase it? yes? am i in the clear now?
I think the moral of the story is that you're not going to be welcome in the trading section because you're obviously a scumbag. Maybe not a liar, but I wouldn't be surprised if you pulled some outrageous stunt and then went "I DON'T SHIP FIRST LAW OF THE JUNGLE BITCH"

[LaughingMAN.S9]

woops double post

[Diatribal Deity]

Alas...like GITS:SAC The Movie this derailment has gone on a bit too long. Your point is ultimately there but the filler is pretty dry. I think most of us identify your view and somewhat "different from the norm" rationale. Given some desparate motivation or perhaps more jaded view of life, I'm sure your not alone. It's what makes us all individuals.

There are alot of "good" people out there who did or continue to do shady things. It does not make one person better than another, just opens you up to a more radical perception when you start spilling your views publicly. Hell, there are plenty of people out there that put in the situation, would hope they would act one way...but when it comes down to it may not make the perceived "right" decision. We are all human and fallable. The fact that you understand and have rationalized your view already is admirable. A bit sad and scary to many if not the majority, at least demonstrates a more street wise eye opening mentality.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

I think the moral of the story is that you're not going to be welcome in the trading section because you're obviously a scumbag. Maybe not a liar, but I wouldn't be surprised if you pulled some outrageous stunt and then went "I DON'T SHIP FIRST LAW OF THE JUNGLE BITCH"


glad we're on the same page



It is stealing if you know who it belongs to, if they dropped their wallet or forgot their briefcase you couldn't just keep it. Life isn't an adventure game where you can take anything that isn't nailed down. It's like stealing a bike and saying it wasn't stealing because it wasn't locked up, it was just left in front of a store "abandoned".


ok how about this scenario, im in the middle of a flea market, theres a 20 dollar bill on the floor, lets say im in the food court where the concentration of people in close proximity to each other is relatively higher


now the 20 dollars is on the floor, i never saw it fall out of the guys wallet, all i see is money on the floor 2 feet behind some random guy? am i safe then? could be his, probably is his, but chances are, anyone i ask within 5 feet of the 20 dollars, is going to claim its theres regardless, for the sake of the story, lets say they all SOMEHOW have less scruples than I.

would it be ok for me THEN to just claim it for myself as theres no real way to verify? or am i still an asshole for not taking down depositions and fingerprinting everyone within a hundred block radius???



Alas...like GITS:SAC The Movie this derailment has gone on a bit too long. Your point is ultimately there but the filler is pretty dry. I think most of us identify your view and somewhat "different from the norm" rationale. Given some desparate motivation or perhaps more jaded view of life, I'm sure your not alone. It's what makes us all individuals.

There are alot of "good" people out there who did or continue to do shady things. It does not make one person better than another, just opens you up to a more radical perception when you start spilling your views publicly. Hell, there are plenty of people out there that put in the situation, would hope they would act one way...but when it comes down to it may not make the perceived "right" decision. We are all human and fallable. The fact that you understand and have rationalized your view already is admirable. A bit sad and scary to many if not the majority, at least demonstrates a more street wise eye opening mentality.



finallllyyyyy, someone who gets it, i wasnt asking anyone to agree or disagree with me, i was simply pointing out that because YOU think its right, doesnt make it so, there is no such thing as wrong as far as im concerned for that would imply that we had a clear definition of what right is.

the extreme polarities of right & wrong existing as black & white in absolute terms only exists in movies, the real world is moral gray, deal with it.


i dont agree with rape or child molestation, but im sure a child molester wouldnt agree with my feelings towards the matter, as much as it disgusts u or me, my opinion weighs just as much as his, right and wrong are 2 unquantifiable abstracts that vary from person to person. i dont have to like what you believe in to acknowledge your right to believe in it.

u think im a scumbag, i think people who believe in god are idiots, my little brother believes drinking fruit punch out of a star wars commerative cup gives him super human abilities, and the world keeps on spinning. we're all right and we're all wrong.


now lets man-hug this shit out like gentlemen and agree to disagree so we can get back to the original topic of this thread....celebrating mtv's awesome new reality show, the jersey shore, AITE


wednesday night cant get here fast enough ^_^

[Gameguy]

ok how about this scenario, im in the middle of a flea market, theres a 20 dollar bill on the floor, lets say im in the food court where the concentration of people in close proximity to each other is relatively higher


now the 20 dollars is on the floor, i never saw it fall out of the guys wallet, all i see is money on the floor 2 feet behind some random guy? am i safe then? could be his, probably is his, but chances are, anyone i ask within 5 feet of the 20 dollars, is going to claim its theres regardless, for the sake of the story, lets say they all SOMEHOW have less scruples than I.

would it be ok for me THEN to just claim it for myself as theres no real way to verify? or am i still an asshole for not taking down depositions and fingerprinting everyone within a hundred block radius???
If you don't know who it belongs to and there's no way to know who it belongs to, there's really no way to return it to the proper owner. You originally said you saw someone drop the money, if you saw the person drop the money then you would know who it belongs to and it should be returned to them. This shouldn't be that hard to understand.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

If you don't know who it belongs to and there's no way to know who it belongs to, there's really no way to return it to the proper owner. You originally said you saw someone drop the money, if you saw the person drop the money then you would know who it belongs to and it should be returned to them. This shouldn't be that hard to understand.


i cant be blamed if some people are careless, i dont see how u can equate my luck with theft, i had no hand in it, am i exploiting the situation? sure i am, no more than the average person who sees a really great deal on craigslist severely underpriced due to seller ignorance/stupidity and still cashes in.


i didnt cause those chain of events to unfold the way they did, right place, right time, the majority of you in opposition strike me as the relatively impressionable sort, the kind that believe every single law is a good law, tsk tsk :(