NayusDante is developing an 8-bit RPG

[jb143]

DNF's problem was that the creators kept trying to keep up with new technology. We can't really say for sure whether they kept waffling on ideas.


I have a book of interviews from game designers from 10 (or so) years ago. In it they interview DNF designers and they say they didn't use a design doc and were pretty much making everything up as they went. Sure it's only speculation, but the fact that they kept trying to keep up with the latest tech could have been kept to a minimum if they had a sense of direction going in. Not that any of this is really applicable to NayusDante's game. I'm just saying that sometimes it makes sense to have the game design figured out in advance so you know what it is your programming.

[ProgrammingAce]

there have been many, many indie RPG projects, some with all kinds of extensive planning and ambitious scripts, that have died completely because in the end the programming was too difficult for the people on hand.

And that's his choice though. Honestly, if he gets the entire game going inside this engine with the artwork, the maps, the quests, the gameplay all finished and he just needs a few hours of programming to get everything finished, he won't have a hard time finding someone to help.

It's not like he has a game design, but no engine. He has an engine, he knows how to work within it's boundaries, and if possible he wants to make a few improvements. The hard part for this game will be the design work. Finish that, show you're willing and able to complete the project, then find someone who can add the patches you're looking for.

[Arkhan]

Just look at Arkhan - though admittedly that might not be the best example.

Yeah that is a pretty bad example, haha.... because....
..
.
Euh.... the programming wasn't difficult! I just got bored of doing it in Allegro/Verge and then DirectX. Like I said, If I am going to make a RPG of the 16-bit era, I'd rather do it for the actual machines. :D If I spent probably about 6 months tweaking and dicking around, I could probably get the Ys-style RPG finished up for PC, and moving it to the 360 would be a snoozer.... but it's not my cup o' tea. The potential market is flooded in a sea of crap, the target audience is spread all over the place, and I'm too cheap to subscribe to XNA, etc. to even bother. ;)

I'm more concerned with PC-Engine and MSX coding. Already bashed out one game in <year, and then starte........... oh, just click the link in my signature, LOL.

ANYWAY,

A design document is crucial. You should ALWAYS spend awhile planning your project out on paper, making sure it all makes sense.

Its alot easier to erase something with a pencil, or hit backspace for a bit and rework things, than it is to fumble around with C/C#/ASM/Something to change an idea around.

Especially an RPG. If you get halfway in and realize you left out crucial design elements, that'll be a bitch to deal with :D. Won't happen as often, or be as bad, if you planned out the game to the point where you can play it start to finish in your head and read your design docs like a walkthru!


Maps, Towns, Scripts, menus, battle systems, all of that.... great to plan out.


Which Nayus seems to have been doing and at this point all it's boiled down to is fine tuning maps, which is simple. And then fiddling with the engine and putting the pieces together.

Nothing beats having the privilege of using an already - in - place engine to get you started, lol.

Having to work out all of the engine stuff on your own, is a PITA.

and its at the point where its presentable enough (I think?) that if you were to show some people and say you are looking for coders, a helpful coder wanting to get involved will show up and assist.

[Jorpho]

and its at the point where its presentable enough (I think?) that if you were to show some people and say you are looking for coders, a helpful coder wanting to get involved will show up and assist....

No, wait, I said I'd be quiet now.

[NayusDante]

So I really wanted to work on maps tonight, but I was really tired by the time I got home from work. I've got all weekend though.



I had an interesting idea today for the dream sequences. Do you dream in 8-bit? As the player progresses into the game, it begins to manifest in his daily thoughts and eventually his dreams. I'm not sure how much I want to use this technique, but I think it would work rather well.

Quick mock-up:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4547317926_0f24f45c06_o.png

As long as there's no legal issues, I can use the Doom engine to do machinima, and just use our tilesets as textures. I think I could do some neat stuff with the sprites too. This is probably a better idea than my last one, which may have involved filming sprite-puppets on popsicle sticks...

[Arkhan]

I don't believe the doom engine was open sauced.

The build engine was though IIRC. You can be all KENS LABYRINTH on it, :D

but, OpenGL + XNA are not friendly. Youd be better off just lifting an open source FPS engine thats out there already, and locking the Y axis....

or writing your own raycasting engine :D

[NayusDante]

Doom, or "id Tech 1" as they call it now, is GPL. Build just looks like it's free for non-commercial use. That's a shame, because Ken's Labyrinth might be closer to the look I'm going for. Still, I might actually use the Y axis for some shots.

This isn't a gameplay idea though, I'm talking about recording video of it for cutscenes. That's what's got me kinda confused, since I'm not modifying the code at all, yet I'm making a derivative work.

[Jorpho]

So, what's happened to this now?

[NayusDante]

It's complicated. It turns out that my friends lack any kind of enthusiasm forthe project. All of the content we actually finished was done by myself and one of my friends, while the other three just wanted to hang out. I called it off when one of them started being a real jerk to me. I'd rather not ruin friendships over this project.

I'm still interested in continuing, but I'm going to have to switch directions a bit. Rather than five people, it would be a team of two. XNA is out of the question for now, but the engine I've been messing with is open-source and MUCH better for what I have in mind. It might be ported to Android, or I might look into an XNA port down the road. The idea of it telling the story about the player is up in the air, but I definitely want to use that idea someday. There's also the chance that it might not be strictly 8-bit, but that depend on how things go.

I've been meaning to update this thread, but haven't gotten around to it. Once things get rolling again, I'll post some of what we had and also show what's changing, etc.

[Arkhan]

It'd be easier to port to XNA than it would be to Android.

but yes, you officially hit the standard homebrew RPG roadblock. :( Sorry! ^^;

[NayusDante]

Yes, I have. That's actually been pretty obvious to me for some time now. Still, I'm learning from all of this, and I'm yet determined to have SOMETHING to show for all this.

In terms of content, I have lots of maps, monster encounter tables, etc. The basic story was done, but I'm making a new overworld map and rewriting it to fit. I'm on my phone now, returning from vacation, but I'm going to spend the better part of tonight organizing a summary of the project up until now along with where it's going.

[Jorpho]

Gee, I never knew you replied to this one again.


the engine I've been messing with is open-source and MUCH better for what I have in mind.Which engine is that?

[NayusDante]

OHRRPGCE (http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/index.php/Main_Page.html) - It's built around console-style RPGs, and has a full scripting language for extensibility. One guy wrote a variant of Triple Triad into his game, others make sidescrollers and non-RPGs.

I'm continuing a worklog thread (http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3801) over at SlimeSalad, the OHR community forum. They're having an RPG contest and the due date is late November, so I'm trying to get this done by then. Normally, they do this thing called the "terrible games contest," but this is going back to their roots as an RPG engine.

I'm actually almost done constructing the world. All that's left is houses, shops, airship interior (if I go with that idea), and the last dungeon. Once I finish all of that and put it into the game, I'll start writing the dialog and scripting all of the events. I have a little story document that I'm happy with, so it's just a matter of telling the story in detail using the world I've put together. I've been too busy with school these past two weeks to get anything done, but I should get some time to finish the maps soon. Ideally, I'll have the game playable and fully scripted by the end of September, leaving October and November for graphics, music, and stat balance (monster encounter tables, items, etc).


I really wanted to use the XNA kit, but it simply isn't a good starting point for much of anything. It's not designed for tile-based movement, but rather, it's Chrono Trigger style. I modified it to have tile-based movement, but then the portal system gets screwed up, and random encounters aren't calculated properly. OHR is currently limited to Windows/Linux, or DOS if I use an older version of the editor (which might be fun). It was originally done in QBasic, but migrated to FreeBasic, and they're talking about long-term plans for a C++ port, and with it the possibility of iOS and Android. For now, though, I just want to prove to myself that I can finish a project, even if it's just PC freeware.

[Jorpho]

That engine sounds vaguely familiar. I think I might have seen screenshots of it long, long ago. I assume people have indeed made complete, entertaining games with it before - but their screenshot selection sure doesn't look too pretty. Was there something in particular that you saw that impressed you?

[NayusDante]

For a long time, the OHR graphics suite of choice was apparently MSPaint, so there's no shortage of bad looking games. What attracts me to the engine, however, is the gameplay. They've implemented pretty much all the features that you'd find in an SNES-era RPG, so you have animated tile support, scripted events, and even vehicles.

Basically, everything I need is already there, and if it's not, there's a script example of it on the wiki. OHR has the feel of a retro RPG engine, where the XNA kit did not. It also has a more refined battle system, while the XNA kit was about as basic as you could get.