Nintendo 3DS - Official Thread

[poloplayr]

So, Nintendo's next console will be the Nintendo 3DS.

Who saw that one coming? And more importantly, anyone excited at the prospects of this thing?

Looks like this year's E3 could be very interesting for handheld gamers like myself!

http://kotaku.com/5499697/nintendo-announces-new-hardware-the-nintendo-3ds

[Oobgarm]

http://wsilva.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/polar-bear-face-palm-thumbnail.jpg

PASS.

[Swamperon]

I can't say I'm entirely excited for the idea of 3D games. 3D movies haven't seemed that great really (and I'm including Avatar in that, "the" 3D movie) and I prefer seeing them in regular 2D. Still, it could prove to be great... and of course every game doesn't have to use the 3D function.

[SPAZ-12]

Unless it comes with a stand and eyeshade, and has the option to view every game in red monochrome, pass. When will this current 3D craze just die!?

[ScourDX]

PSP in Japan is selling like hotcake. It is even beating DSi. This comes to no surprise why Nintendo planning to launch new DS with 3d capability. PSP already done it few years ago. I think this will truly mean real 3d handheld war.

[kupomogli]

When will Nintendo ever come up with their own ideas? /sarcasm.

Nintendo fanboys have been saying it ever since Sony announced six axis, then motion control, and then about Microsoft when announcing the Natal. Now you see Nintendo announcing a system with 3d capabilities which Sony has been working on to be integrated into the PS3 for years now.

I could honestly care less about 3d, but yeah. Just thought I'd bring that up.

[jcalder8]

So does that make the DSi and DSi XL this generation's Sega CD/32X?

[skaar]

It's like a portable gamecube!

... or like two gamecubes in the same box!

Do they have a massive backlog of gamecube parts or something?

[phreakindee]

If it's got the head-tracking/eye-tracking tech similar to what the DSi has (and supposedly it does) color me very intrigued...

Possible Nintendo 3DS effect - DSi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5QSclrIdlE)

Not having a DS or DSi, and being backwards compatible, I'd consider it.

[WCP]

I think the theory is that Nintendo will use a fixed parallax barrier, such as a lenticular lens array for the screens. I'm not sure how it's going to work in person, and how lighting and such will effect the experience. Also, you have to wonder if there will be a pretty good percentage of people who won't be able to enjoy it. I have a good buddy that has a problem with one of his eyes, and he can't "see" 3D. I'm not sure whether he'll be able to see 3D on this device or not. I know those people are definitely in the minority, but still....

[WCP]

I know this might sound crazy, but why not a new version of the Virtual Boy? Now that they are going to do the Nintendo 3DS, it would seem that they would be more open to trying something even more out of left field. The idea of trying to enjoy a 3D experience on a tiny handheld just seems kinda goofy. But give me a full size Virtual Boy, in color, with more advanced technology, and I'd definitely want to try it out.

I'm wondering if VR headsets will ever return to the consumer market? Maybe it's just too much of a health/side-effects issue or something. Still, I'd love to see what a modern day Virtual Boy would look like with the latest and greatest technology under the hood.

[jcalder8]

I think the 3DS IS what the modern virtual boy would look like.

[Slate]

Well it doesn't look bad, Tilting the system to look around wasn't my first thought when I heard of this though. Can you leave the system on a table then move around the system to look around in the game? Probably not. I think this will sell better than Virtual Boy though, Nintendo didn't advertise the VB much and the 3D effect wasn't as obvious. Also, When they had the VB at E3 (Or whatever shows they may have been marketing at) The common passerby couldn't see the 3D effect unless they tried it out. With all that said, I'd buy one if I was in the market for a DS.

Edit - The video title doesn't say 3DS, it says DSI. BTW, Don't you think this is somewhat gimmicky?

[Rickstilwell1]

Maybe we can finally get a remake of VB Wario Land and Mario Clash in color with enhanced graphics and render the VB even more obscure?

[Garry Silljo]

Or the could team up with Sega and do holograms again.

[jb143]

Or the could team up with Sega and do holograms again.

You mean reflecting a standard TV off a curved mirror?

It would be intersting to see someone try something like this again though. The technology is certainly there now...unlike 15 years ago. And head tracking is much better and cheaper now as well.

But it's much more likely that more games will continue to support 3D TV's as they become mainstream.

[Push Upstairs]

I'm wondering if VR headsets will ever return to the consumer market?

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/pop_albums/cov200/drc800/c827/c8277864in2.jpg



I just think the idea of consumer VR helmets is not only passe, but that the internet kinda stole a lot of VR's thunder. I mean, people are addicted to WoW without expensive VR helmets.

[Bojay1997]

You mean reflecting a standard TV off a curved mirror?

It would be intersting to see someone try something like this again though. The technology is certainly there now...unlike 15 years ago. And head tracking is much better and cheaper now as well.

But it's much more likely that more games will continue to support 3D TV's as they become mainstream.

Actually, Sony has some patents on a fairly advanced holographic display system which basically displays content in a cylinder shape on top of a display table and you can walk around the entire projection cylinder and view the objects inside from all angles. The cost makes it very difficult to use in consumer applications, but I could see it being a reality 5-10 years from now.

[Arthur-Otaku]

This is a simple question, nintendo just don't wanna anything with virtual boy name, this system was a total shame for nintendo

Personally, I like very much virtual boy, games are good, 3d visuals are good but kill my spine

[portnoyd]

Apparently, March 23rd is the new April 1st.

[jb143]

Actually, Sony has some patents on a fairly advanced holographic display system which basically displays content in a cylinder shape on top of a display table and you can walk around the entire projection cylinder and view the objects inside from all angles. The cost makes it very difficult to use in consumer applications, but I could see it being a reality 5-10 years from now.

Do you have a link or anything to that? I'm intersted in checking it out to see exactly what you're describing. I'm pretty interested in this stuff but as it turns out, most "advanced holographic" stuff out there isn't using holograms at all, and at the very least, are only using the term with an artistic license.

[old_skoolin_jim]

BARF!
*drops 75 cents and disappears*

[Leo_A]

It better have a 2d mode. There's a significant percentage of people, including myself, that can't see in 3d.

[jb143]

I think the theory is that Nintendo will use a fixed parallax barrier, such as a lenticular lens array for the screens. I'm not sure how it's going to work in person, and how lighting and such will effect the experience. Also, you have to wonder if there will be a pretty good percentage of people who won't be able to enjoy it. I have a good buddy that has a problem with one of his eyes, and he can't "see" 3D. I'm not sure whether he'll be able to see 3D on this device or not. I know those people are definitely in the minority, but still....

That's what I was thinking as well. It works like those 3D DVD cases and whatnot that have the grooved plastic, only much finer and much better 3D effect. My guess is that it will pretty much be a DSi but with a screen that allows for games to utilize a 3D effect. If you only have 1 good eye, then it will look like a standard 2D game.

[Gameguy]

Unless it comes with a stand and eyeshade, and has the option to view every game in red monochrome, pass. When will this current 3D craze just die!?
How long did it take for 3D movies to die off in the 50's before they came back recently? I honestly don't know, but once people get tired of the new effects they'll die off.

It's nice Nintendo announced this before the XL got released, imagine if people went out and bought the XL instead of waiting for this new 3D system. Nintendo just saved people a lot of money at their own expense. Thanks big N.

[somesortofrobot]

Okay, no... this is lame. I'm sorry. Not every new system needs a gimmick.

[Enigmus]

http://wsilva.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/polar-bear-face-palm-thumbnail.jpg

PASS.


I agree. I'm okay with their past gimmicks, but 3D? Really, Nintendo? Now we can play Mario games with 8% less Virtual Boy style shame?

And ANOTHER DS? After one came out last year?

Methinks Nintendo is whoring out.
Either that or the DS is the Octomom of portables.

[jb143]

I think it's just one of those "have to wait and see it for ourselves before forming an opinion" things. To me, a mobile platform seems much better suited for something like this than a console.

[The 1 2 P]

So does that make the DSi and DSi XL this generation's Sega CD/32X?

To your point, why are they bringing this up now? Couldn't they have waited for the DSI XL to have some retail time to itself without the overlooming threat of new replacement hardware? I suppose they have a master plan for all of this though.

[Leo_A]

Where's the surprise? We didn't see the backlit SP ("SP2") and Micro until after the DS was on store shelfs and the DS Lite was announced and was just a handful of months away from hitting store shelfs.

The DSi XL was never portrayed as the next generation of Nintendo handhelds. It was a refinement of the Nintendo DS platform that has a larger screen to appeal to those that desired that. It's the Game Boy Micro of the DS generation that is catering towards a niche in the marketplace.

If anything, it's a classy move on Nintendo's part to let consumers know a new generation is on it's way and will be backwards compatible. That way, consumers don't feel burned buying the latest revision of the DS thinking they'll be set for the next couple of years only to see a new generation of Nintendo handheld hitting the marketplace relatively soon.

And I'm unsure what relationship the Sega CD and 32X have with the upcoming DSi XL. The DSi XL is a revision of an existing platform, just like the top loading NES, 4 switch and Jr. 2600 models, the revised SuperNes, the Sega Genesis 2 and 3, PSOne, slim PS2 and PS3, and numerous Nintendo handhelds before this.

[Bojay1997]

Do you have a link or anything to that? I'm intersted in checking it out to see exactly what you're describing. I'm pretty interested in this stuff but as it turns out, most "advanced holographic" stuff out there isn't using holograms at all, and at the very least, are only using the term with an artistic license.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/19/sonys-3d-display-unveiled_n_325732.html

I know the basic technology was developed at SPAWAR in San Diego which is a US Navy affiliated lab and Sony licensed some of their patents and then created some of their own. I don't know that even SPAWAR created a fully working prototype, but the technology does seem to be real, if prohibitively expensive.

[Hari Seldon]

I'll wait for the 3DS lite before I make a purchase. :)

[Voliko]

Interested? No.

[VG_Maniac]

How long did it take for 3D movies to die off in the 50's before they came back recently? I honestly don't know, but once people get tired of the new effects they'll die off.

3D also came back in the early 80's and than died off. It seems like everyone goes nuts over 3D for a short time...but than they quickly loose interest in it. 3D disappears for awhile, than they bring it back for a new generation. It sticks around for a little bit, people grow tired of it again, and it disappears for another 20 or 30 years.

[scooterb23]

Apparently, March 23rd is the new April 1st.

Quoted since no one seemed to read it the first time.

Also: "According to Nintendo, the product will go on sale between April 2010 and March 2011."

Really? Sometime between next week...or a year from now... they aren't even trying and people still get sucked in.

[deltoidsteep]

Maybe I'm just not cynical enough but I think this is going to be fantastic. In all honesty, Nintendo has never disappointed me, and their hardware is always topnotch. I always thought it was sad that the virtual boy didn't get the love it deserved. But then again I never got headaches or anything from playing it. Here hoping Nintendo has better luck on their second 3D outing.

[scooterb23]

Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary?

[joshnickerson]

Color me interested. I'm not exactly sure what they aim to accomplish with a 3-D screen, but then again, I wasn't sure what they were going to do with two screens or motion control.

[whoisKeel]

I think if it is well done, it has promise. The fact that it will be glasses free might be the thing that saves it. 3-D + glasses = failure.

[scooterb23]

As I understand it, Sony's portable 3D system will have 3 screens, 3 analog nubs, 3 sets of buttons and 3 memory card ports... It'll be called the PSPSPSPD, and it will cost the same as 3 PSPs. Also, there will be an adapter allowing you to hook 3 old school PSPs together to get the same effect.

http://gracethespot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/duct-tape-3m.jpg

The adapter will cost $29.99 and will be available at Sony Style stores sometime between tomorrow, and December 21, 2012.

[PapaStu]

I merged the two threads that were running along....

I'm all for this, particularly because my DS collection will be usable on this system and I have just a *few* DS games.

[Steve W]

The concept of "3D" in a portable is sound. All you'd have to do is put several layers of very clear LCDs in a stack and project images onto all to create a parallax style 3D depth image. It would take a lot of horsepower to run five or six LCDs, though. But it's still possible. The device would have to be a bit thick. Not as thick as a Game Gear or Lynx, of course, but thicker than a DS.

[jb143]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/19/sonys-3d-display-unveiled_n_325732.html

I know the basic technology was developed at SPAWAR in San Diego which is a US Navy affiliated lab and Sony licensed some of their patents and then created some of their own. I don't know that even SPAWAR created a fully working prototype, but the technology does seem to be real, if prohibitively expensive.

Interesting stuff. I seriously doubt that it's a hologram though. They only say hologram in the headlines and reporters can rarely be trusted with things like this. My guess (going by layout and seeing similar other things) is that there's something spinning in there that is being projected onto at exactly the correct time by a synced computer.
[/derail]

Back on topic...For all the naysayers out there... a new 3D DS won't really be 3D at all, it will just create the illusion of 3D. If you close 1 eye, you'll have your old 2D DS back. I wouldn't be surprised if they let you adjust and turn off the feature.


The concept of "3D" in a portable is sound. All you'd have to do is put several layers of very clear LCDs in a stack and project images onto all to create a parallax style 3D depth image. It would take a lot of horsepower to run five or six LCDs, though. But it's still possible. The device would have to be a bit thick. Not as thick as a Game Gear or Lynx, of course, but thicker than a DS.

I don't think that's what's going on here (though I do think there was a line of LCD games that worked like that). What this will more than likely be, is a display that renders a right eye view that only the right eye can see and a left eye view that only the left eye can see, thus fooling your brain into seeing a 3D image.

[Ze_ro]

If this were to happen, I'd buy it:

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/03/500x_nintendo_3ds_hologramz.jpg

--Zero

[swlovinist]

I am going to wait to show judgement until I see the new system in person, and see what games are being made for it.

When I first saw the DS, I hated it. The DS lite came out and I really enjoy the system. The DS eventually will need a successor, and it looks like this will be finally be it.

I am hopeful for this, as long as the price is right.

[lagartija_nick]

Lets face it this thing is going to be another monster for Nintendo.

OF course Nintendo is whoring out, but they do so because they can. The public loves whatever the company puts out. Why would they ever stop when the public sends them such postive feedback for 3 variations of the same hardware?

I already feel sorry for the PSP2. If Sony has improved graphics and no gimmick this time around I think Sony is going to be stomped on once again by Nintendo.

Nintendo oddly raised the price for each variation of the DS. You would think each varation would lower the price, but somehow Nintendo has managed to pull this off without a hitch. This did not work at all for the PSP Go however.

I am wondering since this is new hardware altogether if Nintendo is considering bringing this device out for a minimum of $250. If people really buy the DSI XL FOR $200 its not really that much of a stretch that Nintendo may ask for that amount of money for new hardware.

[Jehusephat]

This thread is overwhelmingly negative, and I'm actually kind of surprised. I was excited enough about this that I assumed a lot of other people would be, too. I guess 3D gaming is going to be one of those things that most people from the current gaming generation either don't get or absolutely hate, but then our kids will grow up viewing it as something completely natural and entertaining. In my opinion, this technology needed a helping hand from Nintendo if it was going to become mainstream, and I'm really glad they're taking the risk. It's something I think will be similar to the transition from black-and-white television to color television--sure, the shows are the same on both sets, and you're really not gaining much useful information by viewing them in color, but how many people watch black-and-white televisions now? If there isn't some kind of horrible drawback to the technology--like massive headaches or something--then I can only view it as a good thing. I can't wait to see what game developers choose to do with the system's additional features. I thought the DS was pretty useless for a year or two after it came out, but once game developers really figured out how to use the system's full potential there were a lot of good games for it that couldn't have been made for any other system.

[Therealqtip]

They already did this like 14 years ago, and I think they did an excellent job at it then.

[kedawa]

I hope it has one large screen with two layers for the 3D effect. The info released is so vague.
Nintendo probably wouldn't make the screens act as one without extending the touchscreen to the upper half, so it could end up very tablet-like.

[lagartija_nick]

This thing is backwards compatible right with the DS right?

Do you think its possible to have one large screen and still play your old DS games?

Actually that sounds really cool if possible.

I guess it could be done but then I assume that the unit will not be foldable.

[Letiumtide]

Considering it still carries the branding DS, I would assume it's still Dual Screen.

I'm not sure what to think, though I've never been an early adopter of any system. So I'll probably sit, wait, see what they come out with. However, I am reluctant to criticize it so readily, most people were really harsh with both the Wii and the DS when it came out. Seeing that, I'm willing to let Nintendo show it's stuff.

[jb143]

I'd think they'd still use dual screens as well. If both are 3D or not would be anyones guess, but to keep costs down, probally not.

And I'd almost be willing to put money on them using a lenticular display. Most of the problems those have are solved by being in a handheld format.

More info on how that technology works can be found here...
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/3d-tv5.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostereoscopy

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't see anything wrong with the concept itself. It's Nintendo's saturation-minded business that gives me pause. They're killing the DSi XL before it gained any steam. That's bad. Not because the XL was going to be that amazing but because it shows that Nintendo is starting to suffer from the kind of hubris that people crucified Sony for back during the PS3 launch. This "we can afford to peddle new shit with incremental improvements at mach 3 with little regard for our other products since people will buy our shit anyway" style of marketting is risky in the long run.

[DuckTalesNES]

I was glad I hadn't bought a DSi when I heard they were coming out with a DSi XL. Now I'm glad I haven't bought a DSi XL.

It isn't as annoying for me since I have disposable income and can buy these things, but it has to completely suck for the little kid who saved up a bunch of birthday money to buy a DSi XL to hear news like this.

[lagartija_nick]

Buying a Nintendo handheld is the equivalent of buying something from Apple. Inevitable buyers remorse because you know the product will be updated soon enough. You have to live with that knowledge or you will never buy anything from Nintendo or Apple.

At least Nintendo is kind enough to offer some warning before the product ships. Apple makes an announcement and the product is in the store that day in most cases. Even the press is left in the dark.

[Leo_A]

I was glad I hadn't bought a DSi when I heard they were coming out with a DSi XL. Now I'm glad I haven't bought a DSi XL.


Not me

This sounds like it will be the best way to play DS titles. What I've read indicates that the screens on the 3d successor will be smaller and who knows if they will be as nice of quality for normal 2d DS titles due to the 3d technology incorporated into them.

The DSi XL should be the SP2 for the Nintendo DS.

[Hari Seldon]

Let's not forget this is supposed to cost under 200 bucks. So either nobody is using this technology right now or it's gonna be one of those technologies thats impressive only for the first 30 minutes.

[Letiumtide]

I've decided that I still want a DSiXL, primarily because I hate that i can play my PSP without wearing my glasses, but still have to wear them for playing my DS lite.

It's also going to be my birthday in a few weeks, so I'll pool a portion of my haul to pay for it. I did the same with my 60gb PS3 last year.

[Mimi Nakamura]

This could be really interesting, Nintendo are the kings of portable systems, I can't see them doing anything stupid.

I think people are confusing the 3D aspect with the stupid 3D TV phenomenon that seems to have gathered huge interest in some sections of American media. 3D TV is a gimmick as it doesn't enhance TV programming in any way, however a 3D element in portable games could change the way we play games.

I'm quite sure it will be perspective 3D using a sensor. The effects with perspective 3D are very impressive, far better than the unconvincing 3D glasses nonsense.

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

[jb143]

I doubt it would use head or eye tracking. It's a handheld so it wouldn't make as much sense as on a TV. It would also add too much cost/complexity. I guess it's possible they could add eye tracking but even that would be a stretch.

I also have some issues with the guy in that video making it sound soo easy to add this to games(Boom Blox was supposedly going to but they cut it). In his examples, everything is either vertical or horizontal to the screen. For more complex shapes, it would take a completely different rendering engine to render everything in the correct perspecive view. Also, with a handheld, the "3D" effect wouldn't be as good since your eye's would be too close(You would have to close 1 eye for it look right).

I'm still sticking with a lenticular lens (or parallax barrier) over an LCD since that's a technology currently in use to do the same exact thing Nintendo is suggesting.

[InsaneDavid]

They already did this like 14 years ago, and I think they did an excellent job at it then.

Well said.

[jb143]

I was having a hard time describing myself so I whipped up this description of how I feel this will more than likely work.

First off...Sorry for the crudity of my model, I didn't have time to paint it or to build it to scale.

For most modern 3D games there is a virtual camera, and its view is rendered to the screen like so...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii12/jeremy_burk/3d1.jpg

To get 3D, you need a view for each eye. So you render 2 camera views, one slightly to the right, and one slightly to the left. Each image would be slightly different and would be something (sorta) like this...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii12/jeremy_burk/3d2.jpg

When it's rendered to the screen, each row of pixels would alternate which image it comes from. Viewing it like this, the 2 images would appear to simply overlap. But by putting a lenticular lens or parallax barrier over the display, then each eye would only be able to see the rows of pixels from either the right or left camera rendering. Like so...
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii12/jeremy_burk/3d3.jpg

This would fool your brain into seeing a 3D image coming out of and going into the screen giving the illusion of depth, sort of like (but much better than my crummy image edit of) this...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii12/jeremy_burk/3d4.jpg

[/lesson on 3D displays]

[kupomogli]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii12/jeremy_burk/3d4.jpg

The image looks like it's really coming out of the screen!

[Mimi Nakamura]

I doubt it would use head or eye tracking. It's a handheld so it wouldn't make as much sense as on a TV. It would also add too much cost/complexity. I guess it's possible they could add eye tracking but even that would be a stretch.

I also have some issues with the guy in that video making it sound soo easy to add this to games(Boom Blox was supposedly going to but they cut it). In his examples, everything is either vertical or horizontal to the screen. For more complex shapes, it would take a completely different rendering engine to render everything in the correct perspecive view. Also, with a handheld, the "3D" effect wouldn't be as good since your eye's would be too close(You would have to close 1 eye for it look right).

I'm still sticking with a lenticular lens (or parallax barrier) over an LCD since that's a technology currently in use to do the same exact thing Nintendo is suggesting.

Now you're just making stuff up regarding costs / complexity, seems as we've already seen an example of sensor perspective 3D it with the DSi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5QSclrIdlE

How can 3D not be as good close up when using sensor technology? That makes no sense... You'd have to close one eye for it to look right? Why do you think that? The screen image changes depending on your position - it's not 3D lens technology.

[jb143]

Watch that video again. All the objects are either parallel or 90 degrees to the screen. And they are all flat...like they are paper cutouts. That makes the calculations easy. Anything not 0 or 90 degrees to the screen gets complicated. Also, your looking at it through a camera (1 eye). With 2 eyes you can tell that it's just an image changing on the screen because that's where your eyes have to focus to see the image. There's no stereoscopic vision. I've done the Wiimote experiment myself and can tell you for a fact that's how it feels. Its still cool but you can tell it's not 3D unless you close one eye (or squint).

I'm 99% sure that the setup I described up above is what they will do.

Now, combining the 2 technologies, that would be the most immersive..

[Zap!]

I was glad I hadn't bought a DSi when I heard they were coming out with a DSi XL. Now I'm glad I haven't bought a DSi XL.

It isn't as annoying for me since I have disposable income and can buy these things, but it has to completely suck for the little kid who saved up a bunch of birthday money to buy a DSi XL to hear news like this.

Why? That little kid has at least a year to save, and probably can get half or more of what he paid for the DSiXL by selling it.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I honestly don't know what to think about it at this point. I have to have it in hand before I can be sure either way. Riding the fence on this one...

Pessimist says;

Though, I do somewhat fear this could be VB2. They've boofed it before... Depends on the execution, completely.

Optimist says;

Personally, I would love to see some visual depth given to hand drawn sprites and some legacy titles getting the "3D" treatment. Imagine a port of Super Metroid, where the sprites 'pop' and the environments have depth of field. :o

[Mimi Nakamura]

Watch that video again. All the objects are either parallel or 90 degrees to the screen. And they are all flat...like they are paper cutouts. That makes the calculations easy. Anything not 0 or 90 degrees to the screen gets complicated. Also, your looking at it through a camera (1 eye). With 2 eyes you can tell that it's just an image changing on the screen because that's where your eyes have to focus to see the image. There's no stereoscopic vision. I've done the Wiimote experiment myself and can tell you for a fact that's how it feels. Its still cool but you can tell it's not 3D unless you close one eye (or squint).

I'm 99% sure that the setup I described up above is what they will do.

Now, combining the 2 technologies, that would be the most immersive..

Wait, so now you're going back what you said previously about sensor technology being expensive / complex to implement?

The DS game that uses the exact same technique as the Wii demo - you don't need to close one eye for it to work, I'm not sure why you think this? It's a real DSi game, not a demo, it works.

[jb143]

Wait, so now you're going back what you said previously about sensor technology being expensive / complex to implement?

The DS game that uses the exact same technique as the Wii demo - you don't need to close one eye for it to work, I'm not sure why you think this? It's a real DSi game, not a demo, it works.

[Sigh]...I didn't go back on anything. I was simply stating that it would be cool if they did both.

The Wii(remote) demo(it's running a PC program using the Wii remote's IR camera through bluetooth connection and don't even use a Wii) makes you wear an IR LED headset. Are you honestly suggesting that the 3DS is going to make players do that?

Ok, I'm going to try to explain this simply to make it easy to understand(sorry, not my strong suit). Yes, you can get a cool looking perspective effect using head/eye tracking. What happens is that the computer renders the view from the perspective of the angle of your eye looking at the screen. With 1 eye, this can be very convincing and look almost holographic. The problem is that we have TWO eyes, and to really see something in 3D it has to render a view for each eye. Otherwise the viewer would be quite aware that they are looking at a flat 2D image that is just changing as you move the screen around. The reason it looks so good in the videos is because it's tracking a camera(1 eye). Now, if you are far enough from the screen(like across the room looking at a TV), the difference in angles your eye's have to focus on isn't as great so you can almost get away with it(I found it helps if you squint). But for a handheld? The screen is just a few feet from your face. The difference in angles between your eyes is going to be much greater if an object is supposed to move just an inch or 2 "into" the screen.

Do this...Hold up 1 finger from each hand about a foot away from your face and focus on them. Now move 1 finger about 2 inches away and focus on it the whole time. Notice how closer finger looks like it spits in 2? This is the effect that you would get from an autostereoscopy display. With just head tracking, if a virtual object were to move farther the the screen if you focus on it, you would still be focusing on the screen itself, no matter how close or far it is from the screen.

Also, according to this article (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27779/Nintendo_Announces_New_Nintendo_3DS_Portable_Syste m.php), some cell phones in Japan already use this technology for 3D displays(have you seen any by any chance?). If it's a current technology already in use for handheld displays then it would only make sense to use the same thing for a handheld game. Ecpecially if they are presenting it as having a 3D display and not tracking tricks having nothing to do with the display.

[Mimi Nakamura]

[Sigh]...I didn't go back on anything. I was simply stating that it would be cool if they did both.

The Wii(remote) demo(it's running a PC program using the Wii remote's IR camera through bluetooth connection and don't even use a Wii) makes you wear an IR LED headset. Are you honestly suggesting that the 3DS is going to make players do that?

Ok, I'm going to try to explain this simply to make it easy to understand(sorry, not my strong suit). Yes, you can get a cool looking perspective effect using head/eye tracking. What happens is that the computer renders the view from the perspective of the angle of your eye looking at the screen. With 1 eye, this can be very convincing and look almost holographic. The problem is that we have TWO eyes, and to really see something in 3D it has to render a view for each eye. Otherwise the viewer would be quite aware that they are looking at a flat 2D image that is just changing as you move the screen around. The reason it looks so good in the videos is because it's tracking a camera(1 eye). Now, if you are far enough from the screen(like across the room looking at a TV), the difference in angles your eye's have to focus on isn't as great so you can almost get away with it(I found it helps if you squint). But for a handheld? The screen is just a few feet from your face. The difference in angles between your eyes is going to be much greater if an object is supposed to move just an inch or 2 "into" the screen.

Do this...Hold up 1 finger from each hand about a foot away from your face and focus on them. Now move 1 finger about 2 inches away and focus on it the whole time. Notice how closer finger looks like it spits in 2? This is the effect that you would get from an autostereoscopy display. With just head tracking, if a virtual object were to move farther the the screen if you focus on it, you would still be focusing on the screen itself, no matter how close or far it is from the screen.

Also, according to this article (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27779/Nintendo_Announces_New_Nintendo_3DS_Portable_Syste m.php), some cell phones in Japan already use this technology for 3D displays(have you seen any by any chance?). If it's a current technology already in use for handheld displays then it would only make sense to use the same thing for a handheld game. Ecpecially if they are presenting it as having a 3D display and not tracking tricks having nothing to do with the display.

The 3D phones don't work very well at all, you have to view them from a specific angle for the effect to work, and even then it's unconvincing... If Nintendo uses this technology, they'll have to improve the quality of the screens.

Having played Rittai Kakushi e Attakoreda, I can tell you that IT WORKS! Naturally, you can't hold the DSi too close to your face to play it, but who plays games in that way?

[jb143]

Having played Rittai Kakushi e Attakoreda, I can tell you that IT WORKS!

No, but I have played with TrackIR/Freetrack (and the Wii remote experiment you mentioned above) which is basically the same thing your talking about but for PC's. The thing is, that's not 3D. If the Nintendo 3DS is just using head tracking then they might as well call them all 3D since they can play FPS's, or games using paralax scrolling. And if it's already possible to do it with the camera in the DSi, then why even bother?


If Nintendo uses this technology, they'll have to improve the quality of the screens.

Oh, I'm sure they will. Cel phones are generally designed to be cheap. As you said before. Nintendo isn't likely to mess up in the handheld market.

I guess all we can really do is wait for June.

[rbudrick]

Lolz at folks who say "this is only the illusion of teh 3Ds cuz closing one eye makes it 2D1!!1!"

That works in real life too. Folks with one eye have no depth perception. That's why we have two.

-Rob

[jb143]

Lolz at folks who say "this is only the illusion of teh 3Ds cuz closing one eye makes it 2D1!!1!"

That works in real life too. Folks with one eye have no depth perception. That's why we have two.

-Rob

Not sure if that's directed at me but your description of depth perception just isn't true. People with only one good eye do have depth perception through things such as motion paralax, size differences, or more importantly, the ability to focus on objects at different "depths" letting the brain judge that distance.

It's stereopsis that having only 1 eye will not provide. Binocular vision...which is only one small part of depth perception. It is what gives the actual illusion of 3D though...as in coming out of, or going into the screen.

[rbudrick]

Not sure if that's directed at me but your description of depth perception just isn't true. People with only one good eye do have depth perception through things such as motion paralax, size differences, or more importantly, the ability to focus on objects at different "depths" letting the brain judge that distance.

It's stereopsis that having only 1 eye will not provide. Binocular vision...which is only one small part of depth perception. It is what gives the actual illusion of 3D though...as in coming out of, or going into the screen.

No, no, definitely not directed at you. I've heard other folks making similar remarks elsewhere, not just here. Didn't mean to appear to single you out.

I stand corrected on many points you made, and I was hasty in posting (perhaps I was simply quoting something I've heard my whole life instead of properly researching it, and once having done so, it's a bit of an "oh yeah, duh" moment), but I would argue binocular vision is the most important part of depth perception (not a small part) and with one eye, this is gone, severely limiting the ability to perceive depth. I would also argue depth perception of any kind in the real world is an illusion (a trick of our senses to help us understand our surroundings), making any 3D high-tech sometimes no worse.

-Rob

[scooterb23]

http://kotaku.com/5505112/this-isnt-how-the-nintendo-3ds-will-work

Somehow, I still believe the whole 3DS thing is an elaborate hoax...