Biggest failure of a console

[M15fit]

In sega's case, Both the Saturn and the Dreamcast did pretty well in Japan as opposed to say the Original Xbox which would be considered a failure there. Here in Australia, The NES and SNES and the N64 where all quite big, where as both the 32x and Saturn are still the least likely 2nd hand game's/systems to be found. It's not uncommon to come across DC stuff though. Australia is an extremely small part of the Market, though many of these failures are territorially based imho.

The 3do was a universal Failure, The need for speed and road rash where an attraction but the price was ridiculous.


Many of the other failures, Mainly Atari, Only reached the shores here in limited quantity or not at all.

[ConsoleAddict]

You know, I loved the Dreamcast. I thought it was an awesome console with tons of great games.

I wonder if things would have been different if:

a) it didn't suffer from the rampant piracy so early on in its life cycle?
b) they had better controllers and memory cards developed for it?
c) if they did have a built-in DVD player? They had thought about including it.
d) EA developed games for it?
e) Sega hadn't destroyed their customer base with their prior gaffes?

It's too bad. It was a bad omen when they were lowering the price of the DC so soon after release. It didn't deserve to be branded as a failure.

[Aswald]

Lies, lies, lies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSinFyg6Y5Q

whys the Adam get so much shit man


Because it deserved it.

[ConsoleAddict]

Dragon's Lair, for what it was worth, looked pretty good for a tape-based ADAM game.

I wish I could play Dragon's Lair. I have heard that the Blu-Ray version of the game is excellent and much better than any DVD version from the past.

[Marriott_Guy]

Bandai was about to be bought by Sega because of their failure with the Pippin, but then they came out with the Tamagotchi.

Very true... but they did come out of it ;)


Konix Multisystem, Halcyon, Nuon, somebody said the M2. I'd barely even qualify those as actual systems. If the system doesn't get released or sold in mass, it's not much more than a prototype.

I am not sure I totally agree with your point on this. I didn't consider those developmental units (Konix in your list), but if they financially destroyed a company, then I guess they should be considered. Regardless if a unit sold in mass, if it was released at all it should definitely be included in this discussion IMHO (NUON, RDI, M2 from your list - yes, I am aware of the RDI debate).

[j_factor]

M2 didn't financially destroy a company, though. 3DO sold the design to Panasonic for a boatload of money. Smartest thing they ever did, and probably responsible for keeping the company afloat. Bad move for Panasonic, but it didn't seem to effect them that much, since they're so big.

[Arkhan]

Because it deserved it.

it gets hate for nonsense reasons. I don't think I have ever seen anyone give a GOOD reason for why they hate the Adam.

The games that were released on it were pretty good, it played Coleco games, and did things comparable to every other computer at the time.

[j_factor]

it gets hate for nonsense reasons. I don't think I have ever seen anyone give a GOOD reason for why they hate the Adam.

The games that were released on it were pretty good, it played Coleco games, and did things comparable to every other computer at the time.

It's pretty stupid that it has to draw power via the printer as a passthrough. This makes the printer a required part of computer, and it drove up the base cost to over $700. Not everyone wanted a printer. Also, on this side of the pond floppy disks were far more popular than datasettes (in general), but the Adam came with a cassette drive standard and the sold-separately floppy drive wasn't produced in large numbers. Not a great move there. Plus it doesn't have BASIC built-in, you have to load it off a tape. And from what I gather it had a high defect rate.

[Astrocade]

And from what I gather it had a high defect rate.

This is the main reason I hate it. If you're lucky enough to find a working one, it probably won't be working long after you get it.

[Arkhan]

It's pretty stupid that it has to draw power via the printer as a passthrough. This makes the printer a required part of computer, and it drove up the base cost to over $700. Not everyone wanted a printer. Also, on this side of the pond floppy disks were far more popular than datasettes (in general), but the Adam came with a cassette drive standard and the sold-separately floppy drive wasn't produced in large numbers. Not a great move there. Plus it doesn't have BASIC built-in, you have to load it off a tape. And from what I gather it had a high defect rate.

yeah, but there was also Expansion Module 3, which was pretty cool, pretty useful, and pretty reliable...

considering too that the stuff came out in early 80s, the flak it gets isn't sensible to me. Commodore's first wave of C64s and 1541s were pretty problematic too but noone hates on that as much :)

Buck Rogers man! Game is awesome.

[Peonpiate]

Jaguar. The games looked like 16 bit games, and the attempts Atari did at 3d were hideous. There was little to no reason to own one outside of Tempest 2000 or the later released AvP...But still, just two great titles and a decent Doom release.

Also it killed Atari, so the Jag earned its position by being known for shitty games and killing its company.

32x/Virtualboy would be a tie for second place. 32x was a waste of time, Sega would have done better by sticking to its VSP chips to compete with Super-FX than waste piles of money [and split its market] on a second addon. virtualboy was just flawed from the get-go. Any device that has a slight chance, no matter how small, of blinding you is a horrible system.

3Do. This one is intermediate to me, it was a flop yes. But it also had a decent library of games, more so than the Jag. It had EA support aswell which showed up with a great version of Road Rash, Madden and Fifa. Aswell as good versions of Sf2, Return fire and Gex. It didnt live up to 3Dos expectations but it wasnt as horrible as the 32x or Jag.

[Sonicwolf]

32x/Virtualboy would be a tie for second place. 32x was a waste of time, Sega would have done better by sticking to its VSP chips to compete with Super-FX than waste piles of money [and split its market] on a second addon. virtualboy was just flawed from the get-go. Any device that has a slight chance, no matter how small, of blinding you is a horrible system.

The VirtualBoy can't be considered a big failure because it didn't destroy Nintendo. Sure it was a disaster and had a sparse amount a games and very limited sales but so many other consoles have destroyed entire companies. Same for the 32X. Limited game library and sales but Sega was not totally destroyed by it.

IMO, a console in the category of "Biggest Failure Ever" should have had immediate, devastating and long-lasting effects on the company which produced it.

[zektor]

The Dreamcast killed Sega's already damaged reputation AND ruined the company once and for all. I would have to say, because of that, the Dreamcast is the sing biggest company-affecting failure in hte industry, ever.

;)


That statement seems like it is from somebody who read something about the history *somewhere*....but was not actually there ;)

Sega's rep was damaged slightly from the Sega CD and 32X...and then the Saturn. The Dreamcast didn't kill Sega's rep. If anything, their rep was sour at the start. But, as the Dreamcast proved itself in the beginning, people started to believe in Sega again.

As far as I recall, the Dreamcast had one of the best launches in history, and the system saw some of the greatest games ever created.

People were actually sad that the system was cancelled as early as it was, and people to this day keep petitioning for a "Dreamcast 2" (which will mostly likely NEVER happen).

If you can call that a failure of a console, I don't know what to tell you.

Atari XE probably gets the spot in my book as the failed console. Not that it didn't have a GREAT library (I am a huge fan of the 800), but it just didn't work as a sell at the time.

I remember the commercials in which Atari made the attempt to sway people away from the NES with this very dated console. There was no way it could have ever competed (and won) with the NES in those days.


And if we are talking handhelds:

Gizmondo

I actually liked this handheld. I worked on some homebrew projects (launcher) and got some unreleased titles out there for the masses too. But as a retail prospect, what a freakin' failure. It ended in a car crash, jail time, and I am sure some "pocket pool" while he was incarcerated :)

[agent57]

Come now, that daisy wheel printer was awesome, especially compared to the dot-matrix printers of the time.

No, not at all actually. The Atari 1027 daisy wheel printer I already owned for my Atari 800 printed twice as fast while doing so at about a quarter of the volume. The Adam printer was average, at best.

[agent57]

Lies, lies, lies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSinFyg6Y5Q

whys the Adam get so much shit man

Uh, because it was a turd? Did you actually own one or are you actually impressed by that version of Dragon's Lair? (I wasn't)

[Aswald]

it gets hate for nonsense reasons. I don't think I have ever seen anyone give a GOOD reason for why they hate the Adam.

The games that were released on it were pretty good, it played Coleco games, and did things comparable to every other computer at the time.

1) It was rushed out. They literally hammered some plywood tables together and hired anyone off the street to work on the ADAMs. No ultra-clean measures, no anti-static electricity safeguards, no real training- this was why so many were defective.

2) The stupid tape drive. Not a regualr one, no, you HAD to buy the tape cassettes THEY sold. Large, clumsy, and without the benefits of a disk drive, yet without the cheap readiness of a regular drive (like the Commodore computers- any tape cassette from the store would do). This made it an oddball, and so unattractive to other companies.

3) Strange programming. The word processor was truly weird.

4) Apple-like- yet not Apple. So why not just get an Apple?

5) In order for a computer to stand out in those days, it had to offer something against IBM, Apple, Atari, Commodore, etc. Those were established computers. ADAM was too awkward and oddball to do it, and so it barely got lukewarm attention from other companies.

6) It drew money and effort from the ColecoVision.

7) It bankrupted Coleco. Why did they believe the nerds and "experts" who kept on about how "video gaming was dead?"

[diskoboy]

The Jaguar killed Atari's already damaged reputation AND ruined the company once and for all. I would have to say, because of that, the Jaguar is the single biggest company-affecting failure in the industry, ever.

Atari was dead long before the Jaguar. The two main people responsible for it's demise were Ray Kassar and Steve Ross.

Atari became the poster child for poor quality, after Warner Communications took over.

First came the Pac-Man debacle. Then came Steve Ross paying an astronomical fee for the rights of ET, only to come up with what is now widely known as one of the worst games of all times, only because Atari rushed it to market to cash in on Christmas '82. Then came Swordquest. Then came the flood of poor 3rd party games. Then came the 5200 which spelled the end of Atari as we knew it in the VCS era.

If you ask me, Atari was killed by the god-awful 5200. The console was just a nightmare to own. Even the Atari enginners didn't want it released. The 5200 had no redeeming qualities, whatsoever.

[tomaitheous]

are you actually impressed by that version of Dragon's Lair? (I wasn't)

Actually, for 1984 that game looks pretty decent.

[Aswald]

Atari was dead long before the Jaguar. The two main people responsible for it's demise were Ray Kassar and Steve Ross.

Atari became the poster child for poor quality, after Warner Communications took over.

First came the Pac-Man debacle. Then came Steve Ross paying an astronomical fee for the rights of ET, only to come up with what is now widely known as one of the worst games of all times, only because Atari rushed it to market to cash in on Christmas '82. Then came Swordquest. Then came the flood of poor 3rd party games. Then came the 5200 which spelled the end of Atari as we knew it in the VCS era.

If you ask me, Atari was killed by the god-awful 5200. The console was just a nightmare to own. Even the Atari enginners didn't want it released. The 5200 had no redeeming qualities, whatsoever.


No, that wasn't it.

What killed Atari was the 2600.

The problem was this: the 2600 was, by far, the most successful of the early consoles. Nothing came close. Any TWO consoles put together couldn't match it.

The result was that Atari had a huge success, a great moneymaker, and was #1.

Problem was, arcade games- the main thing back then for home games- were rapidly evolving in the 1980s. Within a few years we'd gone from Pong and crude driving games to Zaxxon and Robotron.

As a result, the 2600 could no longer handle it. Traditionally, home consoles are always behind arcade technology, if only because of size and relative costs and the need for home consoles to be versatile.

This was where the ColecoVision came in. It was a massive success, because it brought home games the likes of which we'd never seen before at home. Cosmic Avenger. Ladybug...graphics and such like never before.

Atari, if it wanted to put up a fight, had to come up with a new console. Now, some say that originally the 7800 was supposed to have been that console, but the CV forced Atari to put out something FAST, and so the 5200- based on the existing 400 computer- was rushed out. This was why early 5200 games had mainly solid colors, and were not as good as the first batch of CV games. It is also interesting that the 1982 5200 was not backwardly-compatible with the 2600, but the 1984 7800 was. And two years was very significant back then.

Now, here was where things became interesting.

Unlike Coleco, Atari had two consoles out. On the one hand, the 5200 was supposed to have been the next step, yet, because the 2600 was still popular, Atari did not want to abandon it. This caused many people to wonder whether or not to get a 5200- if Atari wasn't going to get right behind it, why should they? They could feel the, well, "indecisive vibes" from Atari. That's not quite it, but it's hard to explain- you have to remember that home consoles did not have the history they do now, it was still recent. The whole mentality and atmosphere was different than it is now. If you were there, you know what I mean.

So Atari was supporting two consoles. And since most of the games for the 5200 were also being made for the 2600, there was less reason to make that move up to the 5200.

Coleco did not have this problem.

They also failed to come out with announced games- Tempest being the prime example. Atari needed popular games that were solidly 5200; "...ONLY for the 5200!"

Atari, already reckless with its spending- the E.T. fiasco is an example- then made the worst move ever: they dropped the 5200 after just less than 18 months.

Now, I've tried to make this point at Atari Age, and maybe the mentality is different today, but back in those days, you didn't dump one system in favor of another that quickly and expect customers to trust you. Especially when the first batch of games for the 7800 were pretty much the same as for the 5200 and 2600!

Some still insist that the 7800 was originally meant to take on the CV, since at that time the CV was the only player in town, really.

But each time Atari came out with a console, it did more poorly than the one before it.


The 5200 was not a bad system. It was a really good one. True, the controllers were a bad joke, but it was so easy to get around that, had Atari wanted to. That left the games, and it had many good ones, and was capable of many more. Tempest, for example. Scrolling games. Xybot-style games. RPGs. It just never got a chance.

As for Ross- no argument. But remember that Kassar was outranked by Ross, and even though he knew that E.T. could not be done, he had no choice. So don't blame him too much for that and other things as well.

[Nature Boy]

the 360 is definitely a failure. i ont even want to buy one until i know it'll last a few years.

I thought about going this route, but it's hard to call the 360 a failure when, even though they've left money on the table because of their hardware problems, they've *got* to be very financially sound. Games on 360 sell like hotcakes (mmm, hotcakes), so in the end I disagreed with this idea.

I thought about and dismissed the N64 too. It's commonly known that Nintendo didn't lose any money with the N64, but their stubbornness sticking with the cartridge platform opened the door for Sony and Microsoft and two generations of hardware that didn't sell the way NES and SNES sold. But it still made money and it sure hasn't hurt them anymore now, so I disagree with this too.

The Dreamcast argument presented is flawed, because I think it was the Saturn that killed Sega's hardware ambitions. Which brings me back to the 360: If I posit that the Saturn killed the Dreamcast, I wonder if the 360's well known hardware problems could spell similar problems for the next generation Xbox. Time will tell.

My vote would go to the 3DO. Way too pricey. FMV was an interesting idea that just totally failed to work. And no real game support (though I did love FIFA and Road Rash back in the day)

[Arkhan]

Uh, because it was a turd? Did you actually own one or are you actually impressed by that version of Dragon's Lair? (I wasn't)

I own one. I own that game too.

Compared to the C64 version (yknow the computer everyone goes OMG ITS SO GLORIOUS etc. etc.), it is superior on all fronts.

The animation is smoother,the control are more responsive,the colors are brighter, and the overall presentation is better.

the music is better on the Adam one to me, but some may prefer the C64 one. I think the C64 sounds thin, the sfx are kinda podunk, and the music isn't as upbeat and epic.

If you aren't impressed by that game on that set of hardware, from 1984, what DO you like from back then in that time frame/for that hardware? That game is pretty kick ass, and has alot of unique elements and game sequences.


as for the tape drives, eh, most companies from back then are guilty of trying some new, eventual disaster of a storage medium.

[Jorpho]

Any device that has a slight chance, no matter how small, of blinding you is a horrible system.Oh come on. If the device was actually capable of blinding people it would have never been sold. You might as well say that all video games should be taken off the market because they might induce epileptic seizures.


No, not at all actually. The Atari 1027 daisy wheel printer I already owned for my Atari 800 printed twice as fast while doing so at about a quarter of the volume. The Adam printer was average, at best.Can't say I've heard of that device before. Was it common?


3) Strange programming. The word processor was truly weird.Back before conventions were well-established a lot of word processors were pretty weird, no?


5) In order for a computer to stand out in those days, it had to offer something against IBM, Apple, Atari, Commodore, etc. Those were established computers. ADAM was too awkward and oddball to do it, and so it barely got lukewarm attention from other companies.This does not differentiate the ADAM from the whackload of other computers coming out at the same time.

[PapaStu]

NGPC?

It never got a real chance to go. It was destroyed by the GBA and its death killed SNK America and brought SNK to its knees in Japan. SNK did come back, but once aquired by Playmore it was never the same.



The Dreamcast wasn't a Sega Killer, the poor support/cost of a Sega CD, 32X and Saturn that all fell so quickly painted Sega into a corner. The Dreamcast when it launched was already facing the 'Sega is going to screw you over' rumors. Because of that, consumers didn't bite in as big of droves. The PS2 then launched and though many of the DC games looked better than any of the launch PS2 games the buzz behind the PS2 was almost too big to overcome. Sega didn't think they could compete and pulled support of the system (when at least here in America the DC was holding its own at the time, Japan was a different story). The PS2 also got real lucky with the release of GTA 3 and GT3. If those hadn't launched when they did and Sega actually kept pushing and fighting, it might have had a chance. The lack of EA didn't help things, but their biggest titles at the time (Madden, NBA Live, MLB) all had major competition from the then smoking 2K lines.

The VB just wasn't a great system. Is it a portable? Is it a tabletop/home unit. It didn't know what it was and that made it hard for the consumer to know what to do with it. Besides, why get that big ol clunky thing when you've got a GB that can actually be carried around w/o needing a suitcase. It was by no means the biggest failure though.

[Arkhan]

Back before conventions were well-established a lot of word processors were pretty weird, no?

Yeah. Pretty much all word processors up til Amiga were pretty weird. The Commodore had plenty of crap ones too, so did apple. Rose Tinted GlassesTM



This does not differentiate the ADAM from the whackload of other computers coming out at the same time.

:) yeah. There were far worse ones out there.

Also it did offer something the Commodore, etc. didn't.

You could get the EM #3, and turn your game console into a computer. It played all your Coleco games. talk about incentive to upgrade :)


not to mention depending how you slice it, the games were just as good and the unit was as expensive as an Apple.

I think they just got unlucky and the computer didn't catch on like they had hoped.

[zektor]

Actually, for 1984 that game looks pretty decent.

I was actually VERY impressed!

[Rob2600]

The Dreamcast when it launched was already facing the 'Sega is going to screw you over' rumors. ... The PS2 then launched and though many of the DC games looked better than any of the launch PS2 games the buzz behind the PS2 was almost too big to overcome.

I worked at Electronics Boutique at the time. Most customers were ridiculously brainwashed by Sony's PS2 hype. I tried selling Dreamcasts to people, but they refused and would say things like, "Who cares if the Dreamcast is only $99, has built-in four player support, and has better sports games, fighting games, and first person shooters? The PS2 can launch missiles!"

It made no sense whatsoever, but that's how the hype machine works.


A few customers said, "I'll wait for the PS2 because it can play DVDs."

I'd reply, "True, but you can buy a Dreamcast and a real DVD player for less than the price of a PS2."

"But...it can launch missiles."

A year later, I quit retail.

[Arkhan]

I worked at Electronics Boutique at the time. Most customers were ridiculously brainwashed by Sony's PS2 hype. I tried selling Dreamcasts to people, but they refused and would say things like, "Who cares if the Dreamcast is only $99, has built-in four player support, and has better sports games, fighting games, and first person shooters? The PS2 can launch missiles!"

I was a proud owner of Dreamcast on day 1

and by day 1 I mean, my parents bought it on day one and "hid it" for xmas

Little did they know that when I got home from school I opened that fucker every day and played it, LOL.



It made no sense whatsoever, but that's how the hype machine works.


A few customers said, "I'll wait for the PS2 because it can play DVDs."

I'd reply, "True, but you can buy a Dreamcast and a real DVD player for less than the price of a PS2."

"But...it can launch missiles."

A year later, I quit retail.

I worked at gamestop for a year. Thats all I could take.

What you describe is the standard annoying-gamer subculture made up of people who think they have to make weird, stupid, "nerdy" comments on purpose in order to be cool, or whatever.

they're also the ones complaining about poor programming, and hardware flaws, but don't actually know a damn thing about what they're talking about.

They are just quoting the guy in the magazine who also didn't know what he was talking about.

BUT ITS OK, BECAUSE THEY CAN LAUNCH MISSILES.

hehe


I tried selling PS3s to people all the time. They would come in asking what I preferred and I would tell them PS3 because:

--Bluray won
--The hardware looks and feels nicer
--The connectivity / HD upgrades rule
--I like the game selection, and the upcoming titles at the time were lookin good.

and then I would explain that the PSN store was pretty cool, and that you can set it up really easily to stream stuff from PC to PS3, etc. etc.......


the usual reply was "oh, ok, I'll take the 360".

to which I would reply with "Oh, how come?"

and they would go "Because its got *insert game that is also on PS3*"

or

"Because Sony is stupid"

*shrug*, their loss. lol

[danny_galaga]

Actually, Neo Geo also, because the price was so expensive it was a complete joke. My friends and I had yet another chuckle on that one.

I don't think the NEO GEO can be considered a failure. I believe it holds the record for longest production run of any console. It was expensive, but so are Ferraris, neither are intended to sell by the truck load...

[Gavica]

Neo Geo

noobs will be noobs

[Aswald]

Oh come on. If the device was actually capable of blinding people it would have never been sold. You might as well say that all video games should be taken off the market because they might induce epileptic seizures.

Can't say I've heard of that device before. Was it common?

Back before conventions were well-established a lot of word processors were pretty weird, no?

This does not differentiate the ADAM from the whackload of other computers coming out at the same time.


There was weird and truly weird. To the point of too weird. ADAM was just that.

And those went down, down, down, too. As failures.

[Jorpho]

Yeah. Pretty much all word processors up til Amiga were pretty weird. The Commodore had plenty of crap ones too, so did apple. Rose Tinted GlassesTMI was thinking PaperClip would be the answer, actually. What did the Amiga have?

[TheChristoph]

Hmm, how about the Gizmondo. What'd that sell, about 2000 units? :P (I remember seeing a sales number somewhere, but it was ridiculously low, less than 200K I think)

But yeah, awful system. Tiger can put that down with the R-Zone and Game.Com

Tiger Telematics (Gizmondo) and Tiger Electronics (R-Zone and Game.com) are different, unrelated companies.

I don't think the Gizmondo was supposed to succeed. Seemed like it was just a huge money sink to embezzle investment capital. I guess if it did succeed, they could have kept the scam going for awhile longer.

I wonder if we'd have the 360 today if the Xbox was put out by anyone but Microsoft. Say it was SNK's glorious return to consoles. Did it do well enough to continue the project?

[camarotuner]

Tiger Telematics (Gizmondo) and Tiger Electronics (R-Zone and Game.com) are different, unrelated companies.

I don't think the Gizmondo was supposed to succeed. Seemed like it was just a huge money sink to embezzle investment capital. I guess if it did succeed, they could have kept the scam going for awhile longer.

I wonder if we'd have the 360 today if the Xbox was put out by anyone but Microsoft. Say it was SNK's glorious return to consoles. Did it do well enough to continue the project?

If the 360 was made by Nintendo, the company would now be bankrupt and purchased by Larry Flynt so it could make mario/peach porn. It's lost a reported 4+ Billion dollars. Very very few companies in the world can eat that kind of loss and keep running with it. MS however, can.

[Jorpho]

It's lost a reported 4+ Billion dollars.Yeah, you're going to need a citation for that.

[camarotuner]

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/26/forbes-xbox-lost-microsoft-4-billion-and-counting/

That is actually a rather old article citing forbes magazine on the loss of revenue caused by the original xbox, not the 360.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/07/05/msft-xbox-charge-tech-media-cx_rr_0705techmsft.html

1 billion in lost revenue in 2007 regarding 360 warranty issues. These were supposed to be "greatly improved" by the upcoming revisions to the hardware.

Current estimates range anywhere from 20-50% failure rate on 360's. Let's be nice and call that 25% under warranty. That puts it on par with the 2007 levels. That's 3 more years (and counting) of 25% defective rate 360's. That's a lot of friggin money. Given the original xbox lost them 4 billion and was a rather solidly built piece of machinery with a much lower defective rate, yep.

Oh and NATAL

http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?40441-Investors-slam-MS-over-Project-Natal-thinks-they-should-do-an-IBM

isn't winning over the investors who see it as a bad idea. Time will tell on that one.

[Jorpho]

1 billion in lost revenue in 2007 regarding 360 warranty issues. These were supposed to be "greatly improved" by the upcoming revisions to the hardware.

Current estimates range anywhere from 20-50% failure rate on 360's. Let's be nice and call that 25% under warranty. That puts it on par with the 2007 levels. That's 3 more years (and counting) of 25% defective rate 360's. That's a lot of friggin money. Given the original xbox lost them 4 billion and was a rather solidly built piece of machinery with a much lower defective rate, yep.Considering we have no idea how that 1 billion dollar figure was calculated, multiplying it by four to obtain a projection is highly specious. Nor does the article suggest how the original Xbox lost 4 billion.

Seriously, if MS sold 400 million XBox 360s (a gross exaggeration), that would mean that each one cost Microsoft $1,000 apiece - and even more if you factor in the retail cost paid by the consumer!

[SEgamer]

The worst of all time in my book has to be the Memorex VIS. It did have a few (literally) titles that were actually video games, so it's not entirely an "edutainment" system.

[Arkhan]

I was thinking PaperClip would be the answer, actually. What did the Amiga have?

bunch of stuff!

Word Perfect, Amiga Writer, and Shakespeare are the ones I have disks for..

there was a ton of other ones, including ones that had integrated stuff like pen pal, and even had LaTeX support. and VIM!


Amiga was the first truly productive computer for the masses I think. The PC had the industrial/business setting by the balls... but in the home man, Amiga had all kinds of nice shit to work with. Too bad it all fell apart.

[MachineGex]

The 360 failure rate has cost MS money, but how much has the 360 earned the company? If they lose 4 billion on repairs/hardware failure but make 20 billion on sales, that isn't an overall lose. I would like to see how much they have really made and loss....including everything from sales to licensing/etc. NO way I beleive MS is in the RED on the 360, if they are, someone is cookin' the books.

[ConsoleAddict]

The Xbox 360 will never be considered a failure, regardless of the numbers. All the teenage boys whose entire social lives revolve around it get enough abuse already.

[Jorpho]

The 360 failure rate has cost MS money, but how much has the 360 earned the company? If they lose 4 billion on repairs/hardware failure but make 20 billion on sales, that isn't an overall lose. I would like to see how much they have really made and loss....including everything from sales to licensing/etc. NO way I beleive MS is in the RED on the 360, if they are, someone is cookin' the books.But of course. I was interpreting "lost revenue" as "net loss", and that wouldn't be right at all.

[Arkhan]

The 360 failure rate has cost MS money, but how much has the 360 earned the company? If they lose 4 billion on repairs/hardware failure but make 20 billion on sales, that isn't an overall lose. I would like to see how much they have really made and loss....including everything from sales to licensing/etc. NO way I beleive MS is in the RED on the 360, if they are, someone is cookin' the books.

Wasn't it proven that they lose money on every 360 they sell, but make up for it in game sales?

[camarotuner]

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/04/23/microsoft_s_entertainment_division_shows_strong_pr ofit

165 million dollar profit margin for 1st quarter. But that includes the entire entertainment division and unfortionately doesn't break it down any further.

MS could have beat the ps3 and killed blu-ray with the 360 if they hadn't of screwed it all up. It would have put them in a position of dominance in the industry. Instead they will finish 3rd and be left scratching their heads wondering how the whole thing slipped away. To me that's a bigger failure than the rest of them because it could have legitimately been the king of the hill and instead will finish last.

[j_factor]

Wasn't it proven that they lose money on every 360 they sell, but make up for it in game sales?

I don't think that's true anymore.

[Arkhan]

I don't think that's true anymore.

you sure?

I'd figure with all the RROD fixes/replacements, and the fact that the system is cheaper now....

:D


i didnt like the 360. I got it, got a few games, beat them, got bored and sold the thing for 300$ + some D&D books. PS3 was then purchased. Much better experience with that beast.


everyone rags on the ps3, but I dont see what the problem is :)

[Jorpho]

MS could have beat the ps3 and killed blu-ray with the 360 if they hadn't of screwed it all up. It would have put them in a position of dominance in the industry. Instead they will finish 3rd and be left scratching their heads wondering how the whole thing slipped away. To me that's a bigger failure than the rest of them because it could have legitimately been the king of the hill and instead will finish last.Yes, it is truly a mournful tragedy that Microsoft failed to obtain a monopoly in another business sector..?

[ConsoleAddict]

MS could have beat the ps3 and killed blu-ray with the 360 if they hadn't of screwed it all up. It would have put them in a position of dominance in the industry. Instead they will finish 3rd and be left scratching their heads wondering how the whole thing slipped away. To me that's a bigger failure than the rest of them because it could have legitimately been the king of the hill and instead will finish last.

The big problem with Microsoft is that for all the people who love them, they also have a lot of people who hate them. I don't think anybody hates MS due to having a monopoly in the OS business, though those "I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea" commercials are quite arrogant. Most of the hatred stems from faulty product shoved out the door before it's been bug-tested, out-sourcing their customer/technical support and making huge profits yet laying off people for no reason other than more profit.

While that mindset did little to stop the MS onslaught in their other avenues, it doesn't work for gaming. It frightens me how so many people are willing to over-pay for online play, peripherals and games (especially here in Canada) and deal with the E74 and RRoD and yet still see the white tampon as a masturbatory idol. I'm frightened for E3; I can't wait to read the comments from lemmings who want to waste even more of their money on Project Natal. It will be a huge flop. I don't think PS Move will be successful, either, but they won't be pushing it like MS is with Natal. You're not going to be called a loser if you don't own one.

Maybe someday, the Americans and British will wake up and realize that they were taken for a ride. However, don't hold your breath waiting for that day. Nothing like having paid off websites preaching how great the Xbox 360 is despite the myriad of problems it has. Again, teenage boys with zero social lives outside of the Xbox 360 don't need to have their feelings hurt.

[Arkhan]

those "I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea" commercials are quite arrogant.

The OSX commercials are of course arrogance free.
/sarcasm

and really, Windows 7 is pretty kickass, so they're allowed to brag.



Most of the hatred stems from faulty product shoved out the door before it's been bug-tested, out-sourcing their customer/technical support and making huge profits yet laying off people for no reason other than more profit.

More hatred comes from ignorant users who experience crashes/problems and don't realize its all like that. It isn't just M$ with buggy software.

The grass is always greener on the other side and then you climb over the fence and step in cow shit.



Maybe someday, the Americans and British will wake up and realize that they were taken for a ride. However, don't hold your breath waiting for that day. Nothing like having paid off websites preaching how great the Xbox 360 is despite the myriad of problems it has. Again, teenage boys with zero social lives outside of the Xbox 360 don't need to have their feelings hurt.

Lol, :D I remember when everyone got 360s on day one and were like OMG OMG OMG OM GOM GOMGOMGOM and crap, flailing around like morons, getting on live and going OMG PROFILES, OMG ACHIEVMENTS O M F G

I didn't even get one :)

my xbox 360 is called a PS3.

I still have a launch model 20gb one. Only right after opening it I turned it into a like, 250gb. HDMI, sleek black finish, 250gb HD. It's like the 360 elite, only I did it first.

I'm an Arkhan and Xbox 360 Elite was MY IDEA.

:D

[ConsoleAddict]

@ Arkhan

Touche.

EDIT: Apparently, the new name for Project Natal is "Kinect". Wow.

[camarotuner]

Yes, it is truly a mournful tragedy that Microsoft failed to obtain a monopoly in another business sector..?

Well, since we are discussing business failures, yes. MS had an oppurtunity to grab a stranglehold of ANOTHER business sector and blew it through a crappy system. Instead, they built a system with the reliability of a ugo that is costing them billions, let blu-ray win, and will end up third in a three team race.

[Jorpho]

Well, since we are discussing business failures, yes. MS had an oppurtunity to grab a stranglehold of ANOTHER business sector and blew it through a crappy system. Instead, they built a system with the reliability of a ugo that is costing them billions, let blu-ray win, and will end up third in a three team race.You keep talking like this is a bad thing for everyone and not just for Microsoft.

[camarotuner]

Well, if we're going to play poker let's play with our hands exposed.

I work as a manager from Gamestop. As far as modern gaming goes, I simply don't care. I'm only concerned with the business aspect of this industry. When I sit down to play games, crack me out my atari 2600, nes, snes, and all the toys I had when I was a kid. But on a day to day basis, all I am concerned with is business since it's my job. That being said...

I wanted the Wii to win. Nintendo's DS system and the Wii system have shown MS and Sony that casual gaming, innovation, and general fun in gaming can beat "better" systems. As a direct result we get games like little big planet, which is awesome. Nintendo does the retro mario type games and viola Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is coming out! So yay Nintendo and their way of doing things.

But honestly? If people are buying video games, I've got a job. I don't care if people buy MS, Sony, Nintendo, or whoever/whatever else comes down the pipe. People spend money on games, gamestop makes money, I get to keep playing with video games for a living.

But the original point to the thread was "worst failure of a console". Given what it had to gain and had a legitimate shot at doing, put me down for the 360. Because at no point was any of the other systems on this list in a legitimate position to dominate the industry and lost it.

[ConsoleAddict]

I agree with you, camarotuner. Every point you made is valid and truthful.

It's sad that so many people have drunk Microsoft's Flavor-Aid and don't care to think that the Xbox 360 was a lost opportunity for MS. Anyway, I'm glad they are failing. They have some great games and some great ideas in regards to the 360 but that's not enough to cover the huge errors and idiotic decisions. However, they did succeed in raising their lemming userbase despite this. Which is why part of me doesn't see the 360 as a failure.

I really like the Wii but I wish there was a more consistent stream of software for it. I've bought 4 Wiis because I sold 3 of them due to lack of interest.

[Poofta!]

I think there are three types of failures.

1. I would put systems like Colecovision, 5200, Dreamcast in the same category. Good systems with potential though some flaws, but ruined by a series of bad decisions/actions by the company.

2. Systems like the 32X, Jaguar, 3DO, Astrocade, might have had potential, but the games mostly were hideous, and were laughed off the shelves.

3. Systems that either had terrible hardware, poor concepts, or absurd pricing that would never allowed for success. Odyssey 2, Neo Geo, Amiga CD32, VirtualBoy.

Konix Multisystem, Halcyon, Nuon, somebody said the M2. I'd barely even qualify those as actual systems. If the system doesn't get released or sold in mass, it's not much more than a prototype.



wow.... what a great way to put it! i... i.... i agree completely!




You know, I loved the Dreamcast. I thought it was an awesome console with tons of great games.

I wonder if things would have been different if:

a) it didn't suffer from the rampant piracy so early on in its life cycle?
b) they had better controllers and memory cards developed for it?
c) if they did have a built-in DVD player? They had thought about including it.
d) EA developed games for it?
e) Sega hadn't destroyed their customer base with their prior gaffes?

It's too bad. It was a bad omen when they were lowering the price of the DC so soon after release. It didn't deserve to be branded as a failure.


you know what? im an open dreamcast hater (even though im a huge 16bit sega fan), but youre right.

thing is, all the things you mentioned, thats like 80% of the system right there. after those 5 things, what else is the dreamcast? sega 1st party titles and (at the time) arcade quality board (hence awesomeness of soul calibur, crazy taxi and marvel vs capcom).

so i guess what im saying, if you have a system that failed for an entire laundry list of reasons, of course fixing each one would make it a winner.

i feel i hate that system so much cause the system hurt me so much. i had such high hopes, and seeing one terrible decision after another, and know the console's future before i even bought mine (a month after release), makes me sad. so much potential, yet such a failure

[grolt]

Well, since we are discussing business failures, yes. MS had an oppurtunity to grab a stranglehold of ANOTHER business sector and blew it through a crappy system. Instead, they built a system with the reliability of a ugo that is costing them billions, let blu-ray win, and will end up third in a three team race.

The Genesis has had similar coulda/shoulda/woulda woes, but you won't see anyone calling that a failure. The reality of the situation is that regardless of whether or not the 360 will be overtaken by the PS3 (and I'm not entirely holding my breath for that, either) it has enjoyed a lengthy and very successful run, both hardware and software wise, as the premiere hardcore gamers' console. The SNES eventually overtook the Genesis, but again...failure? The 360 is doing just fine.

[Poofta!]

double post

[Poofta!]

That statement seems like it is from somebody who read something about the history *somewhere*....but was not actually there ;)



dude... did you even read the blurb i quoted?

man ive been gaming & collectiong for over 2 decades. i know wtf happened. i was there facepalming on the sideline.



Sega's rep was damaged slightly from the Sega CD and 32X...and then the Saturn. The Dreamcast didn't kill Sega's rep. If anything, their rep was sour at the start. But, as the Dreamcast proved itself in the beginning, people started to believe in Sega again.

no one began to believe in sega. evidence of this was everyone and their mother waiting off on buying the dreamcast because they were waiting on the ps2 to see what would happen...




As far as I recall, the Dreamcast had one of the best launches in history, and the system saw some of the greatest games ever created.


you recall wrong. maybe it was SEGA's best launch ever, but thats not saying much. and your 'greatest games ever created' blurb is as laughable as much as it is an opinion.



People were actually sad that the system was cancelled as early as it was, and people to this day keep petitioning for a "Dreamcast 2" (which will mostly likely NEVER happen).


most people will defend their investments to the death. if sega kept running with the DC it wouldve been bankrupt. and yeah, DC2 will never happen, for good reason.



If you can call that a failure of a console, I don't know what to tell you.


i can, and it is.

failure commercially in terms of sales
failure economically in terms of profit
failure as a competitor
failure to be worth owning even as a hindsight (99% of everything worth playing was ported long since)

it pains to look at, its deafening to turn on and the controller probably causes carpel tunnel, as if anyone is willing to hold it long enough to prove it.


the ONLY good thing to come out of the DC:
multiplatform SEGA games.

P.S. if anyone here brings up that it was the first net-connected system, youd only be half right, since x-band did it 2 gens prior. all the DC did was bring it back at a time where bandwidth was beginning to become cheaper, it's only pioneering effort in this category is bundling it w/ a modem from the get-go.

[buzz_n64]

360 has it's flaws, but IN NO WAY is a failure, games sell, best online gaming experience, and many other great features. If the system was a true failure, it either would have only lasted a few years, or Microsoft's next system would've been out already. Just because you might not like the system for one reason or another doesn't put it at Nuon or Virtual Boy status.

[Poofta!]

I tried selling PS3s to people all the time. They would come in asking what I preferred and I would tell them PS3 because:

--Bluray won
--The hardware looks and feels nicer
--The connectivity / HD upgrades rule
--I like the game selection, and the upcoming titles at the time were lookin good.

and then I would explain that the PSN store was pretty cool, and that you can set it up really easily to stream stuff from PC to PS3, etc. etc.......


the usual reply was "oh, ok, I'll take the 360".

to which I would reply with "Oh, how come?"

and they would go "Because its got *insert game that is also on PS3*"

or

"Because Sony is stupid"

*shrug*, their loss. lol




wow really? there are still people here who thing the ps3 is a better *game* console? i mean its fighting really hard TODAY to even compete w/ the 360, but a year or two ago? man the 360 was just decimating sony. hell i doubt sony will ever surpass MS in this generation. we'll see though.

this is is coming from a guy who has both consoles, and is a complete ps1 fanboy. i dont hate sony by any means, hell i own 3 psps with like 90 games!

[Poofta!]

MS could have beat the ps3 and killed blu-ray with the 360 if they hadn't of screwed it all up. It would have put them in a position of dominance in the industry. Instead they will finish 3rd and be left scratching their heads wondering how the whole thing slipped away. To me that's a bigger failure than the rest of them because it could have legitimately been the king of the hill and instead will finish last.

egh, thats a little misleading as well as wild speculation.

wii may have most sales, but the people buying them wont keep the gaming industry afloat. most of the sales are for younger kinds who get it with shovelware or older people who barely ever buy a game. how many people who call themselves 'Gamers' would trade a ps3 or 360 away for the wii.

as for ps3, 360 still has more sales. period. most people i know have both (including me) and use the ps3 as a bluray player. i suspect a lot of people are buying it because its a bluray player PLUS (and all the sales from it being the cheapest/best bluray player no longer exist, since bluray players dropped to ~100$). you remind me of a typical gamestop employee.

the 360 has a much larger and stronger market presence, which of course is thanks to MS's deep, deep coffers.


The big problem with Microsoft is that for all the people who love them, they also have a lot of people who hate them. I don't think anybody hates MS due to having a monopoly in the OS business, though those "I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea" commercials are quite arrogant. Most of the hatred stems from faulty product shoved out the door before it's been bug-tested, out-sourcing their customer/technical support and making huge profits yet laying off people for no reason other than more profit.

While that mindset did little to stop the MS onslaught in their other avenues, it doesn't work for gaming. It frightens me how so many people are willing to over-pay for online play, peripherals and games (especially here in Canada) and deal with the E74 and RRoD and yet still see the white tampon as a masturbatory idol. I'm frightened for E3; I can't wait to read the comments from lemmings who want to waste even more of their money on Project Natal. It will be a huge flop. I don't think PS Move will be successful, either, but they won't be pushing it like MS is with Natal. You're not going to be called a loser if you don't own one.

Maybe someday, the Americans and British will wake up and realize that they were taken for a ride. However, don't hold your breath waiting for that day. Nothing like having paid off websites preaching how great the Xbox 360 is despite the myriad of problems it has. Again, teenage boys with zero social lives outside of the Xbox 360 don't need to have their feelings hurt.

im not a teenage boy, and i own a 360 (2 in fact). i never had problems and it provides a superior gaming experience than my ps3, in every way.

i love my purchase, the only time i had to call MS support i was greeted by a southern fella who helped me out, i enjoy the fact that all of my friends and new people i meet, have a 360 and we can all talk online while we game together. $35 a year (standard going price for xboxlive) is a very cheap price to pay for the service so well designed and easy to use. i spend more a week on beer.

your generalized opinion is humorous.


I agree with you, camarotuner. Every point you made is valid and truthful.

It's sad that so many people have drunk Microsoft's Flavor-Aid and don't care to think that the Xbox 360 was a lost opportunity for MS. Anyway, I'm glad they are failing. They have some great games and some great ideas in regards to the 360 but that's not enough to cover the huge errors and idiotic decisions. However, they did succeed in raising their lemming userbase despite this. Which is why part of me doesn't see the 360 as a failure.

I really like the Wii but I wish there was a more consistent stream of software for it. I've bought 4 Wiis because I sold 3 of them due to lack of interest.

dude you cannot possibly believe the 360 is a failure. thats just ludicrous. also, MS didnt lose anything, the wii isnt competing w/ ps3/360 so its irrelevant. MS doesnt care about bluray (or any physical media actually). the 360 makes MS loads of money and software sales are insane. no company does things without making mistakes, and sure MS had many (and still some) but it really doesnt matter when they, in the end of the day, provide the best gaming experience. reading your posts makes me feel like i have to lose IQ just to understand you. either way, haters will be haters. i cant take the stupidity in the last page or so anymore (how the hell is ANY console in the last 2 gens a failure since they all went on to make new & better ones?!). im out.

[dbiersdorf]

i love my purchase, the only time i had to call MS support i was greeted by a southern fella who helped me out, i enjoy the fact that all of my friends and new people i meet, have a 360 and we can all talk online while we game together. $35 a year (standard going price for xboxlive) is a very cheap price to pay for the service so well designed and easy to use. i spend more a week on beer.

Your individual experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I owned a 360 for a little over a year and a half and went through four systems. Does that make me think all of them broke? No, but it's pretty clear from reports online the system has a high failure rate. And you're making a very ignorant statement to think that it's some small vocal minority. It doesn't mean the system is a failure, but when that can retract from sales from people who consider the risk too high - you have a problem.

Further more, why are discounting the Xbox Live price? You might be able to find a year subscription for $35 if you're a smart shopper, hell if you wanted you easily pull off never paying if you simply took advantage of the many ways to get free month cards, but that doesn't take away from the fact that 95% of the time you walk into a brick and mortar store the price is $50.



the wii isnt competing w/ ps3/360 so its irrelevant. MS doesnt care about bluray (or any physical media actually). the 360 makes MS loads of money and software sales are insane. no company does things without making mistakes, and sure MS had many (and still some) but it really doesnt matter when they, in the end of the day, provide the best gaming experience. reading your posts makes me feel like i have to lose IQ just to understand you. either way, haters will be haters. i cant take the stupidity in the last page or so anymore (how the hell is ANY console in the last 2 gens a failure since they all went on to make new & better ones?!). im out.

The Wii isn't competing with the PS3 or 360? People still feed into that bullshit? What is Kinect and Move? They are attempts to capitalize and compete on the Wii's market. When internal funds are moved to focus on these products it goes to show that yes they are competing and in fact they got man handled by Nintendo because the market changed and they didn't adapt accordingly.

Furthermore, since when is the 360 such a huge cash cow? The entire Xbox brand hasn't been profitable until (finally) the past year or two. Although that has been Microsoft's choice in order to penetrate the market that doesn't necessarily make the system an undeniable success. Is it a failure? Not even close. I'm not arguing that, but I've read this thread and you clearly have a biased opinion on the matter, not to mention posts filled with inaccurate information. Stop taking people's opinions personally and acting like a child.

[danny_galaga]

Why is 360/PS3/Wii even being discussed? They are patently not failures. They all make a net profit for their respective companies (when you include software sales, which is after all a necessary part of the equation).

I think I'm leaning towards Gizmondo after reading this thread. Certainly a quite spectacular end to what could have been a promising product. It's underworld ending makes me think of Delorean LOL

[ConsoleAddict]

@ Poofta

You may not be a teenager but you sure type like one. Honestly, what adult types everything in lower-case? Or are you 12?

[Aswald]

I'd certainly put the Atari 7800 here.

For one thing, it was not released when it was supposed to have been: 1984. Tramiel-Atari waited until a few years later, after the NES was hopelessly #1.

It was mostly technically outmatched by both the NES and SMS. True, it had certain strong points, but overall, it was o.k. But not great. The CV and 5200 were too close to it, overall.

The games it had were hopelessly outmatched by what the NES and even SMS had to show.

And of course, one always had the feeling that the support for it was half-hearted at best.


But another problem it had was that, unlike the VCS and 5200, Atari was no longer Atari. Gone were the days when one could expect an "Atari" arcade game to automatically be available for an Atari home system (Atari Games, Atari).

Really, what did it have going for it? Almost every disadvantage.

[ConsoleAddict]

@ Aswald

I remember reading through an issue of Electronic Games back in 1984 where they put the Atari 7800 through its paces. They reviewed the console and all 18 games that were going to be launched with it. Throughout the entire article, I found their enthusiasm to be lukewarm at best. With that kind of attitude permeating through the story, you could tell the Atari 7800 was going to have a rocky experience throughout its life cycle right from the start.

I don't remember which month the issue came out. I sure would like to read a scan of it somewhere.

[Vectorman0]

@ Aswald

I remember reading through an issue of Electronic Games back in 1984 where they put the Atari 7800 through its paces. They reviewed the console and all 18 games that were going to be launched with it. Throughout the entire article, I found their enthusiasm to be lukewarm at best. With that kind of attitude permeating through the story, you could tell the Atari 7800 was going to have a rocky experience throughout its life cycle right from the start.

I don't remember which month the issue came out. I sure would like to read a scan of it somewhere.

What was EG enthusiastic about back then, around the same time?

[Rob2600]

360 has it's flaws, but IN NO WAY is a failure, games sell, best online gaming experience, and many other great features. If the system was a true failure, it either would have only lasted a few years

Try finding a properly functioning Xbox 360 ten years from now.

[tom]

Good thing about DC was that the gaming library of good titles outweight the not-so-good/bad titles. That's rare with any given console, especially from Japan.

[BetaWolf47]

As a collector, I consider Xbox 360 to be a failure. Let's compare here. Most people here hate any sort of downloadable content. It doesn't have any face value, and if it has DRM, it's gone if something goes wrong.

When I buy a system, I want to be able to keep playing it a decade down the road. There's no guarantee that an Xbox 360 I buy will always be working. If something isn't going to be around in 10 years, it's worthless to begin with.

[Rickstilwell1]

Try finding a properly functioning Xbox 360 ten years from now.

Unless the redesign fixes things. (Crosses fingers)

[ConsoleAddict]

What was EG enthusiastic about back then, around the same time?

PC Gaming!

[Aswald]

@ Aswald

I remember reading through an issue of Electronic Games back in 1984 where they put the Atari 7800 through its paces. They reviewed the console and all 18 games that were going to be launched with it. Throughout the entire article, I found their enthusiasm to be lukewarm at best. With that kind of attitude permeating through the story, you could tell the Atari 7800 was going to have a rocky experience throughout its life cycle right from the start.

I don't remember which month the issue came out. I sure would like to read a scan of it somewhere.


I have both the Electronic Games and Electronic Fun issues from that time.

I don't think there were 18 games for it; maybe a dozen at best- and except for Galaga and Desert Falcon (which wasn't even properly named yet!), the games had all appeared on the 5200. Some just a year earlier!

The review was actually favorable, calling the 7800's abilities the best out there for a console, but- and I cannot stress this enough!- the attitude that "video gaming is dead; computers are the future," put forth by nerds and know-nothing marketers, was already a self-fufilling prophesy. If not for Nintendo and the NES, it's unlikely that, beyond homebrewers like Opcode and Newcoleco, and hardware pros like Sean Kelly, there would even be anything after 1984. This is probably why you remember the "lukewarm" part- they mentioned this.

I bought the thing in 1988. By then, the NES was solidly #1, only the VCS had it beat in its own time. They had little access to popular games, and some, like Double Dragon, were inferior to the SMS and NES versions overall. Dark Chambers was NOT going to match Guantlet for those systems. Joust and Xevious, as well as DK and DKJr., were on the NES anyway. I bought it mainly for Joust; I did not know it would soon be on the NES.

In fact, had the CV version been completed and released, as well as Dig Dug and Pac-Man, I would not have bought the 7800. The 7800 version is great, but- so is the NES version. And the CV version was close to them.

At no point did I ever get the feeling the Tramiels were really trying. Every time it looked as though it might work- Tower Toppler and Crossbow- they would crash and burn the whole works.

So the 7800 had to deal with the NES' popularity, crummy incompetence, and gamers with a bad feeling from the abandonment of the 5200. The 7800 cartridges and instructions were often cheap-looking, and the whole operation had "second-rate half-baked" written all over it.

I prefer my 5200 (especially since NOW it completely works- after 12 years!) over the 7800. Wonder what versions of Joust and Dig-Dug, as well as Xevious and Pole Position, it could really do...

[Auto-Fox]

As a collector, I consider Xbox 360 to be a failure. Let's compare here. Most people here hate any sort of downloadable content. It doesn't have any face value, and if it has DRM, it's gone if something goes wrong.

When I buy a system, I want to be able to keep playing it a decade down the road. There's no guarantee that an Xbox 360 I buy will always be working. If something isn't going to be around in 10 years, it's worthless to begin with.

FINALLY someone who agrees with me!

That said, I'd say the biggest failure of a game console thus far would have to be the Xavix.
What's the Xavix, you might ask?
Exactly.
The Xavix was an early motion-control console from the PS2/XBOX/Gamecube era. It relied on a series of peripherals for control, but apparently had decent responsiveness.
Of course, despite its advanced technology, it was pretty much marketed only as a fitness device, and thus nobody bought it, really.

[buzz_n64]

Xbox 360- is the #10 best selling console of all time worldwide 39 million systems sold, outselling the Genesis/Mega Drive and PS3.
Small portion of it's games are download only, mainly indie games. Plus the other current gen systems all have it as well.
The new slim console has fixed red ring of death issue, no longer an excuse for calling it a failure.
It is the preferred console for online gaming.
People don't buy it primarily as a media player like they do with the PS3, for it's Blu-ray.
Quit bitching Xbox haters, you want it to be a failure, but you damn well know it's not.

[ConsoleAddict]

Xbox 360- is the #10 best selling console of all time worldwide 39 million systems sold, outselling the Genesis/Mega Drive and PS3.
Small portion of it's games are download only, mainly indie games. Plus the other current gen systems all have it as well.
The new slim console has fixed red ring of death issue, no longer an excuse for calling it a failure.
It is the preferred console for online gaming.
People don't buy it primarily as a media player like they do with the PS3, for it's Blu-ray.
Quit bitching Xbox haters, you want it to be a failure, but you damn well know it's not.

Yeah, so it's O.K. to be an Xbox 360 fanboy? The hypocrisy from people like yourself is pathetic.