View Full Version : Composite vs. RGB vs. S-Video vs. Component vs. HDMI vs. RF vs. VGA
If your PS1 games play fine via component on your PS2, then that means that your TV supports 240p via component, which is what most (all?) pre-PS2 systems output.
There are a handful of PS1 games that output at 480i, which was interesting for me to discover. Tekken 3 is the one I personally came across.
At first I had just a black screen. Then I tried the switch on the SCART/RGB cable (does anyone know what that does), and got this:
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx188/mkennedy999/lowrescomponentonlcd.jpg
if its the pcenginesales cable, that switch is for stereo / dual mono or something like that.
Ed Oscuro
07-15-2010, 10:54 AM
I haven't personally run all these options but I'll just share my understanding of the relative strengths of the video types:
Composite vs. RGB vs. S-Video vs. Component vs. HDMI vs. RF vs. VGA
Composite (assuming three-plug stereo RCA or RF) - easy and cheap video capture but poorer quality
RGB - good video capture options but expensive, cables required, mods often also; some confusion due to various scan rates (15KHz for classic arcade and some consoles / computers i.e. X68000 / FM Towns; 24KHz for "medium resolution" such as the Sega System 24 (Crack Down, Scramble Spirits); 31KHz also (VGA runs at this scan rate).
S-Video - good balance between ease of capture, good audio sync options (afaik), and good quality; good support among legacy consumer systems
Component - good picture, ease of video capture, more expensive
HDMI - good picture quality, some reasonable video capture options. Downside: many sources (i.e. the PS3) disallow capture via HDCP.
VGA - actually a form of analog video more or less similar to RGB. Good picture quality up to a certain rate, still one of the most cost-effective ways to get high resolutions due to ubiquitous hardware. Cons - no audio information sync, video (or even stills) capture is expensive. Similarly look at DVI, which seems to already be at the end of its short life.
Gavica
07-15-2010, 11:44 AM
If your PS1 games play fine via component on your PS2, then that means that your TV supports 240p via component, which is what most (all?) pre-PS2 systems output.
There are a handful of PS1 games that output at 480i, which was interesting for me to discover. Tekken 3 is the one I personally came across.
cool, just tested ps1 games on ps2 with component and worked great on my lcd
Oldskool
07-16-2010, 12:45 AM
That's good. Did you test several? Because on mine a few actually do work, but the majority doesn't.
What kind of TV do you have. I wonder if it's one that's OK with low res component. I wish I had another way to test this thing. Man I wish it would have worked on the LCD, it would have been beautiful.
Gavica
07-16-2010, 02:10 AM
That's good. Did you test several? Because on mine a few actually do work, but the majority doesn't.
What kind of TV do you have. I wonder if it's one that's OK with low res component. I wish I had another way to test this thing. Man I wish it would have worked on the LCD, it would have been beautiful.
tested 2 games, worked when I hooked it up thru my receiver (that outputs to the TV via HDMI) and also when I hooked it up directly to the TV.
Its a 46inch Sony, about 3 years old
KDL 46v2500
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Bravia-KDL-46V2500-46-Inch-1080p/dp/B000HGSL4E
Oldskool
07-16-2010, 02:23 AM
Ahh good ole' Sony. Can't go wrong with that. Mines just a cheap Polaroid I got for $598 on Black Friday a couple of years ago. I guess I should expect it to not have that feature.
otaku
07-16-2010, 12:02 PM
I tend to go for the best connection I can case in point my ps3 is HDMI
tested 2 games, worked when I hooked it up thru my receiver (that outputs to the TV via HDMI) and also when I hooked it up directly to the TV.
Its a 46inch Sony, about 3 years old
KDL 46v2500
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Bravia-KDL-46V2500-46-Inch-1080p/dp/B000HGSL4E
The tv is probably not being actually tested for 240p stuff here, since your reciever is the one taking in and converting (at least analog to digital, dont know about if you have it set to do any upscaling) your ps2's signal to hdmi.
Gavica
07-16-2010, 05:13 PM
The tv is probably not being actually tested for 240p stuff here, since your reciever is the one taking in and converting (at least analog to digital, dont know about if you have it set to do any upscaling) your ps2's signal to hdmi.
I also tested it directly to the tv and it worked
totally missed that part, my bad =/
Gavica
07-21-2010, 03:24 PM
I have one of those 3 in 1 S-Video Cables (SNES/GC - Dreamcast - Xbox 1) and it works great, the quality of the picture of great on svideo on my snes, no issues there.
So Lately I've been thinking of doing the rgb/scart to component thing for my consoles.
I went ahead and first bought this cable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170508772756&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Then I bought this thing so I could get the Audio out of the cable
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250652226516&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
The last step was to buy the rgb/scart to component coverter which I haven't yet.
So in the meantime I wanted to test if the rgb/scart cable worked so I used it with that adapter, which you can see from the pics it has S-Video out.
So I did, the problem is the colors and quality looked poor, like a cheap RF signal.
So I was wondering, could it be because the rgb/scart cable I bought was a cheap piece of crap?
I would of thought that the Picture Quality would of been the same as with my regular S-Video 3in1 cable.
I am no afraid to buy the component adapater and wasting like $50 if the quality will look bad.
Gavica
07-21-2010, 04:50 PM
Here is Pic, first one is with 3in1 S-Video
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/761/img0565kl.jpg
Second with the rgb/scart to svideo
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5104/img0567xe.jpg
The Manimal
07-22-2010, 09:17 AM
Oh yeah, Odin Sphere looks BEAUTIFUL on my PS2 using Component cables to the LCD tv.
One thing I noticed though, if I try to play PS1 games on my PS2 using the component cables, half the time the graphics are all messed up on the screen. Not sure what's going on there.
On my normal PS1 (phat) I use the official Sony S-Video cable and it looks fantastic. Symphony of the Night in component looks NICE.
One thing I don't understand, why are people composite and even S-Video modding their old Atari 2600/5200/7800? How much better can a block really look? Never understood that. I do understand not having RF interference on the screen though. My Radio Shack switch box is horrible about that. I am gonna pick up one of those RCA ---> RF pass through adapters. Supposed to clean it up quite a bit I hear.
The RF video output on those Ataris is awful.
Ed Oscuro
07-22-2010, 11:10 AM
rgb/scart to svideo
What? How is this actually connected?
And three cheers for s-video with 480p and lower resolutions. It's not RGB but it's generally been good enough for me - heh, I gamed with three-jack composite for years so just getting rid of dot crawl was good enough for me.
Gavica
07-22-2010, 11:55 AM
What? How is this actually connected?
And three cheers for s-video with 480p and lower resolutions. It's not RGB but it's generally been good enough for me - heh, I gamed with three-jack composite for years so just getting rid of dot crawl was good enough for me.
check the scart passthru I posted, it has svideo out, but gives bad svideo
Ed Oscuro
07-22-2010, 12:41 PM
Sorry, I missed that part. So that's actually simpler than I thought. I'm not sure what your options are, outside of finding a television that still has the classic SCART connector, or finding some upscaling hardware (a bit expensive).
Gavica
07-22-2010, 12:49 PM
Sorry, I missed that part. So that's actually simpler than I thought. I'm not sure what your options are, outside of finding a television that still has the classic SCART connector, or finding some upscaling hardware (a bit expensive).
I just need to buy one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220624087499&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Ed Oscuro
07-22-2010, 12:52 PM
Have you looked into lag? That's always the killer with these devices I find.
RGB -> YUV Transcoding is not going to introduce lag from what I've been told, especially not in the millisecond range (unless perhaps its a particularly terrible transcoder) . Scaling or A/D conversions are what usually introduce lag w/ converters.
edit: Fudoh update his webpage recently, it has a lot of info on converters, upscalers, etc, including some new ones on the cheap end of the spectrum you can find on ebay - http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
edit: I would reccomend getting cables from pcenginesales on ebay - she normally sells snes rgb cables for euro snes's, but will switch out the necessary components to make it compatible with ntsc snes's if you need it. I got one of a batch of higher quality cables they had just got in, and it finally got rid of the diagonal jailbars I would get on my snes.
Oldskool
07-22-2010, 06:50 PM
Yeah that's odd about the S-Video output on that pass through. There is some sort of incompatibility somewhere, obviously. I wouldn't hesitate to think that the picture would look damn near perfect with the right converter however. That's the same converter I have for the X'Eye and it looks great. I still need to take some pictures of composite vs. rgb/component on the X'Eye once I get it all hooked back up in the game room.
Maybe the cable you got was not ntsc compatible? I don't know much about the SNES running RGB, I just know that they have scart cables for it.
skaar
07-22-2010, 09:01 PM
Vectorman linked this on IRC and I think it might be of interest to people in this thread:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
A really good writeup by someone with an insane amount of time on their hands.
Vectorman linked this on IRC and I think it might be of interest to people in this thread:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
A really good writeup by someone with an insane amount of time on their hands.
look up =)
I did not know digitpress had an IRC room though, would you mind telling me the server / channel (EDIT: NM, googled it)
skaar
07-23-2010, 01:38 PM
I must have missed it if you posted it Zapf - sorry.
#vbender on EFnet.