2D franchises ruined by 3D sequels

[parker311]

3D is not just all the rage. 3D is the foreseeable future. It almost makes sense, until you remember how pissed off you were when you read that the sequel to one of your favorite 2D games was in full 3D.

Classic franchises have been ruined by this change-over, all too common, both because the developers wanted sales and figured no one buys 2D games anymore, or because they simply wanted to "modernize" their franchise, forcing a style of game play to work in a 3D environment. Here, they are basically forcing a square peg into a round hole, or else completely changing the game play, alienating the core audience that supported their franchise in the first place.

I as many game players, remember that watershed moment of going to pick up the sequel of my favorite game and getting pissed off at realizing beautiful 2D rendered graphics had been replaced by overly used 3D polygons. Here is a partial list, and anyone who has similar memories should contribute.

Classic 2D franchises that should have stayed 2d:

Castlevania

Contra

Sonic the Hedgehog

Newer franchises that should have remained sprite-based:

Alundra -- Alundra 2 is an ugly wart on an otherwise great franchise (spiritual prequels include Dark Savior on the Saturn, Landstalker (and LadyStalker) on the Genesis, and later Dual Hearts on the PS2.

Gex -- The original was actually a fantastic platformer, although a little stale at times. Enter the Gecko and the others have aged very poorly and had a very short shelf life.

Out of This World - Fade to Black, anyone?

Rayman -- Fully took advantage of the PSX's (sorry, PS1 now) 2D capabilities to create a very successful game commercially and critically that was marketed as the zenith of 2D game creation with its fully animated, lush visuals. The subsequent Ray(men?) have exhibited none of this because they have deviated from the entire point of the character and series.

There it is, all formatted and spell-checked for the trolls and haters. Contributions (instead of spiteful remarks) welcome.

[Auto-Fox]

Don't forget Earthworm Jim, though honestly, Earthworm Jim 3D could have been worse.

Bubsy as well, though it's debatable whether the 2D entries to the franchise were that good to begin with.

[Arkhan]

3D is not just all the rage. 3D is the foreseeable
Out of This World - Fade to Black, anyone?

There it is, all formatted and spell-checked for the trolls and haters. Contributions (instead of spiteful remarks) welcome.

You mean Flashback, not Out of this World

[Smashed Brother]

I thought that Rayman 2 was actually a great game, at least on the DC :(

You could add TMNT to this list. The old 2D games were fantastic games that bring back great memories, but when it transitioned to 3D? Good God, man! At least the more recent GBA game was a step in the right direction.

[goatdan]

Rayman -- Fully took advantage of the PSX's (sorry, PS1 now) 2D capabilities to create a very successful game commercially and critically that was marketed as the zenith of 2D game creation with its fully animated, lush visuals. The subsequent Ray(men?) have exhibited none of this because they have deviated from the entire point of the character and series.

If you liked the 2D outing, you should check out the GBA 2D game Rayman 3. I didn't think it was quite as great as the first game was, but it is a VERY solid overall title.

[phreakindee]

Duke Nukem 3D - simultaneously saved and killed by 3D. Duke 3D brought the franchise to new heights, and its success killed the whole thing - with the never-ending development of Duke Nukem Forever. The pursuit of constantly "better" 3D graphics just got out of control. And of course, who can forget those subpar N64 and PS1 games...

Also, how about Mortal Kombat? Or Megaman? Thankfully, neither are "Dead" but WOW were there some terrible 3D titles.

[TRM]

I actually liked the 3D Castlevania games for the N64, though I felt that the first one was rushed, and due to that, was basically revamped and expanded for the second one. No need in owning both.

[Enigmus]

Pac Man- Pac Man World was fun, PMW2 was good, PMW3 was meh, and the racing game was a cheap cash-in. Honestly, it should've stayed 2D. Championship Edition was how Pac Man should have stayed- arcade gameplay with twists and challenges to make it more exciting.

[Kaboomer]

Um, pretty much all of them :) Except for Mario of course.

[T2KFreeker]

Rayman -- Fully took advantage of the PSX's (sorry, PS1 now) 2D capabilities to create a very successful game commercially and critically that was marketed as the zenith of 2D game creation with its fully animated, lush visuals. The subsequent Ray(men?) have exhibited none of this because they have deviated from the entire point of the character and series.


I hate to burst bubbles here, but Rayman on the Playstation was a port, as was the Saturn release which was superior even to the Playstation version. In order to play the original Rayman with all of the animation frames and all of the parallax scrolling, you need to play it on the Jaguar, the system the game was developed on originally. You all might not like that this is true, but it is. Rayman was a Jaguar game from the beginning, period.

[Ze_ro]

The important thing is to make sequels exactly like the original, because new things are scary and I don't like things that are different.

--Zero

[Oldskool]

Super Mario Bros
Zelda
Metroid
Castlevania
Metal Gear
Contra
Rygar
Blaster Master
Rocket Knight Adventures
Punch Out
Alien Crush
R-Type
Thunder Force
Sonic
Ninja Gaiden
Splatterhouse, if it ever comes out
Kid Icarus
Bomberman
Final Fantasy
Dragon Warrior
Phantasy Star
Warcraft
Command & Conquer
Prince of Persia

Basically if it existed then, and does now or has turned 3D - then it's been ruined.

[gamedude45]

wow, no one's mentioned bubsy 3d yet.

[todesengel]

I actually liked the 3D Castlevania games for the N64, though I felt that the first one was rushed, and due to that, was basically revamped and expanded for the second one. No need in owning both.
Same here, I thought the 3D Castlevania's were ok and not as terrible as everybody makes them out to be. Curse of Darkness got really boring fast though with how the level layout was.


wow, no one's mentioned bubsy 3d yet.
I think it wasn't mentioned because nobody wants to be reminded of that game.

[Oldskool]

You just did. LOL

[dgdgagdae]

The Monkey Island series.

[Sniderman]

wow, no one's mentioned bubsy 3d yet.

Psst. Read the second post.


I think it wasn't mentioned because nobody wants to be reminded of that game.

You too.

[Pk116]

I am not crazy about 3-D action, action/adventure, or platforming games.

[buzz_n64]

Blaster Master: Blasting Again was horrible!!! I have all the games in the series (except for the Wii Ware title) and that Playstation game is the worst.

Rocket Knight is more like 2.5D, which I really like, I think that's the way all retro revamps are going nowadays.

I don't think games series going from 2d to 3d in itself is the reason why the 3d game may suck. In most cases, in the mid and late 90's 3D models and gameplay were sub-par, especially on the Playstation, regardless if it was an original game, or sequel.

[gamedude45]

Psst. Read the second post.

ahh, thanks. I don't know how I missed that.^^;

[rimsky82]

When Metroid went 3d, they were good games but were missing the magic. I'm excited to see what Team Ninja has done to the franchise with the 2d-3d blend.

I think Nintendo ingeniously did Mario right by making 2d and 3d versions of the franchise. NSMB Wii was incredible, serving mostly the original generation of Nintendo players, while the galaxy series is justly serving the 3d crowd. I think they picked up on NSMB success, which is why so many of the games at e3 were remakes of old series, staying true to the original gameplay, and making only the improvements necessary to make satisfying sequels. EG. Donkey Kong Country Returns. Can't freakin' wait.

[kupomogli]

Castlevania
Mega Man

Except most of these games were good in 3d.

For Mega Man it was 2d titles that ruined the series. Zero 2, 3, 4, and the EXE series. Although that's opinion as the EXE series has a pretty big fanbase seeing how they've come out with around 10 games for it.

[old_skoolin_jim]

Except most of these games were good in 3d.

For Mega Man it was 2d titles that ruined the series. Zero 2, 3, 4, and the EXE series. Although that's opinion as the EXE series has a pretty big fanbase seeing how they've come out with around 10 games for it.

I was actually a pretty big fan of Mega Man Legends too... Never got a chance to play the 2nd one, sadly, but I do own the first and think it's a fun little action/rpg.

[todesengel]

You too.
Ah must have glossed over it.

[Aussie2B]

I wasn't pissed off when I heard my favorite classics were going 3D, I was excited. I was amazed by the prospect of 3D gaming when it was new, and Super Mario 64 blew me away. In fact, contrary to most gamers' outlooks, I feel I'm more attracted to those early years of 3D in which development was exploratory and new than modern, derivative 3D games.. As I've gotten jaded to 3D development, yeah, there were some occasions in which I groaned at the idea of a classic going 3D because of preconceptions of how it would result, but the base concept isn't offensive to me at all.

There are a lot of ways in which developers can alienate their core base, and I think polygons themselves are the least of their worries. 3D doesn't have to mean free-roaming, so when you talk about straightforward 2D action games, there's a part of the problem. Some games probably are better suited to staying side-scrolling, but 3D within those restrictions can result in some impressive effects, like in Goemon's Great Adventure and Kirby 64. I love that the games are side-scrolling, but the stages wrapped around and have a lot of depth.

But even if you change how a game plays compared to past titles, that's not the fault of the graphics nor is it even necessarily a bad thing. Super Mario 64 isn't about going left to right and reaching the end of a stage, but it was so awesome that it doesn't matter that it's different. In fact, it's valuable to tread new ground.

However, when you do want a concept to stay the same, you don't need to change the graphics to muck it up. I'd argue that the Castlevania series switching nearly all of its games to SotN-style adventure games with RPG elements has done more to alienate the fans of the classic games than the 3D ones. I think Legacy of the Darkness is a really good game, and while it doesn't play like the older titles either, at least it offers action and challenge, which is more than can be said for the 2D handheld games.

[Arkhan]

I don't think Final Fantasy was ruined by going 3D.

Shitty junctioning/sphere systems, and whiney main-characters would have happened in 2D as well.

at least FF13 is repairing the damaging mess FF12 left behind. :)



heres another one: Mario.

Mario 64 sucked. Revolutionary 3D my ass. They should have done like Enix and make a Mischief Makers lookin Mario for N64.

It wasn't until the new super mario bros that I gave a left nut about mario again.


and Oddworld was ruined with that Xbox game. Munch's Odyssey was lolfail.

[Voliko]

I hated Donkey Kong 64. After playing through all the Country games this game just left me wanting more than another clone of Nintendo and Rare's succesful 3-D platformers.

[Baloo]

I hated Donkey Kong 64. After playing through all the Country games this game just left me wanting more than another clone of Nintendo and Rare's succesful 3-D platformers.

At the time Rare was just making one happy cheery platformer after another. Conker was going to be the same thing before they realized "Wait a minute, this doesn't look too good, let's make it stand out". And the problem with Donkey Kong 64 is that it didn't have the innovation Banjo-Kazooie had when it came to gameplay.

As for my preferences, I've realized that just about all game franchises played a LOT better in 2D than they did in 3D, even if they did that "3D on a 2D plane shit". The 2D plane with 3D graphics makes the physics feel all floaty. Only one game ever pulled that off right, and it was NiGHTS into Dreams... for Saturn.

Mario's long-ass adventure games are not nearly as fun as the original side-scrolling platformers. Even New Super Mario Bros. Wii just wasn't that much fun in the end.

Street Fighter IV is the WORST Street Fighter game next to the original Fighting Street on TG-16. Bland graphics, bland music, bland gameplay. *Yawn* Give me 3rd Strike or Alpha 3 any day.

And Sonic, well that kind of gameplay just doesn't transfer well to 3D. Really, no franchises transferred well to 3D, they all became either drastically different, sucked, or both. You can't go to 3D and keep that same great gameplay that's found in 2D. IMO, they should all just go the Castlevania route and stay 2D.

[Push Upstairs]

heres another one: Mario.

Mario 64 sucked. Revolutionary 3D my ass. They should have done like Enix and make a Mischief Makers lookin Mario for N64.


I just can't get into Mario free roaming, punching, and butt stomping things. I know everyone claims its the best game ever, but it doesn't even feel like a Mario game.

Sonic is the same way, only worse. If it wasn't his toned down attitude, or the 3 billion "friends", it was the fact *his* games seem to be light on the speeding. Never mind that Sonic's games seems to be scattershot gimmicks with werehogs and talking swords. O_O

[Rob2600]

Rayman

Rayman 2 was a very highly-rated game:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/n64/rayman2thegreatescape?q=rayman%202

[Icarus Moonsight]

I was not sold on 3D Mario until Galaxy myself.

What I considered pure sacrilege was KoF gone 3D... Even ruined the year naming scheme to such a degree, they used roman numerals to re-differentiate after reverting back to 2D.

The 3D Shinobi on PS2 was pretty good and very challenging.

Sands of Time is my favorite Prince of Persia game, ever.

I look at the current gen and I know 2D is not totally forgotten or dead (though I feel, as an old fart, 2D & 2.5D is underutilized and overlooked in favor of full 3D). 3D production has just gotten better and grown into it's own. Each has a unique visual style and suits certain gameplay characteristics better than the others (a point that sometimes is ignored, resulting in some degree of disaster). And also, just because a project goes one way or any of the others itself, does not set the quality of the output, for better or worse. That is up to design and execution, completely.

[BetaWolf47]

I'm really surprised how many people dislike these critically acclaimed games. Rayman 2, Super Mario 64, Donkey Kong 64, Duke Nukem 3D, and even Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness all did decently well in terms of media reviews. Try Bomberman or something.

[SamuraiSmurfette]

I've had this discussion with friends numerous times before.
The only game franchise that we have come up with that is BETTER in 3D, than in 2D is
Grand Theft Auto.
There are other games that are GOOD in 3D (like the aforementioned Mario series), but you can't say Mario Galaxy or whichever are better than Mario World (or mario 3 for that matter)

edit: ooh. someone mentioned Prince of Persia. I think I might have to add that to the list. The new ones were really good.

[crux]

Can we change the thread title to "2D franchises definitively ruined by 3D sequels"? We all know opinions are subjective by definition, so for god's sake, Mario 64 has no place on this list. I still enjoy the game and it was even more amazing upon its release. Someone even cited Zelda. Sure, they're running the series to the ground, but Ocarina of Time is still a great game to this day, whether you like it or not!

The fact is, some people will be stuck on 2D and others can enjoy the transition. The fact of the matter is, it's actually impressive how many 3D conversions came out surprisingly well. Maximo - the spiritual sequel in the Ghosts 'n' Goblins series - is very well developed. Many people are incredibly frustrated with the game because of how well developed it was - it was frustratingly difficult just like its precursors! People speak of Mega Man losing its luster after turning 3D, despite the fact that the series had to go ALL the way back to its Mega Man 2 roots just to find itself again! Acting as if Legends was purely at fault is silly. 3D Castlevania only gets guff simply because of how great the 2D games eventually became - which is really a consequence of them emulating Super Metroid.

3D transitions are rarely the only thing at fault. What's really at fault in these transitions is developers forgetting what made their series successful in the first place. The fact is that 2D is far from the only thing they were forgetting.

[tpugmire]

Metroid.

To me, Metroid was always more of an adventure game, with lots of exploration. I absolutely loved all the Metroid games until Metroid Prime. The Metroid Prime series killed it for me. Why they tried to turn it onto a FPS, I'll never know. I'm cautiously optimistic about Other M, but I don't have great expectations. Oh yeah, the pinball one was lame too...

[rimsky82]

Metroid.

To me, Metroid was always more of an adventure game, with lots of exploration. I absolutely loved all the Metroid games until Metroid Prime. The Metroid Prime series killed it for me. Why they tried to turn it onto a FPS, I'll never know. I'm cautiously optimistic about Other M, but I don't have great expectations. Oh yeah, the pinball one was lame too...

It was sad waiting through the entire n64 generation for a new metroid game,
only getting Samus in smash bros. The Prime series, which was basically a game with 2 expansions, had the classic explore and upgrade formula and characters, but other than that was a different series for a different crowd. The GBA Metroids were a breath of fresh air for the 2d fans, but you were still playing on a 3in. screen.

Basically, the only games that worked the best for 3D were the top-scrolling games like Zelda and FF that were trying for a 3D feel to begin with. Side scrollers should stay that way.

[jonebone]

Can we change the thread title to "2D franchises definitively ruined by 3D sequels"? We all know opinions are subjective by definition, so for god's sake, Mario 64 has no place on this list. I still enjoy the game and it was even more amazing upon its release. Someone even cited Zelda. Sure, they're running the series to the ground, but Ocarina of Time is still a great game to this day, whether you like it or not!


Thank God someone said it before me. The inclusion of Mario and Zelda is preposterous and makes you seem like a NES / SNES fanboy and nothing else. Sure maybe you didn't like the game but when the 3D counterpart continually gets rated higher than the 2D ones by well-known gaming companies / mags / sites, then you are certainly in the minority and just a disgruntled retro gamer.

It amazes me the amount of people who bad mouth the current generation of games. Games didn't get any worse, you just got old and became an artifact. Some people evolve with technology and others try to shun it because they can only handle an A and B button before their brain explodes.

[j_factor]

How about Ultima? Ultima IX was a travesty. I did like Underworld, but that doesn't really count.

Also, Golden Axe.

[Famidrive-16]

I'd say NARC was the only one "ruined" in 3D. Maybe Final Fight too.

Most mentioned otherwise here I'd highly disagree with.


Street Fighter IV is the WORST Street Fighter game next to the original Fighting Street on TG-16. Bland graphics, bland music, bland gameplay. *Yawn* Give me 3rd Strike or Alpha 3 any day.

What about the EX series?

[BetaWolf47]

I'd disagree about Metroid Prime being a different game for a different crowd. It's definitely got the charm of the original. The only way to make a game true to its 2D roots is to make it in 2D, after all.

[tom]

Mario 64 for sure and Missile Command 3D

[tom]

It amazes me the amount of people who bad mouth the current generation of games. Games didn't get any worse, you just got old and became an artifact. Some people evolve with technology and others try to shun it because they can only handle an A and B button before their brain explodes.

Well, that's something for you to look forward to then.

[buzz_n64]

Mario 64 for sure and Missile Command 3D

Really, Mario 64 killed the Mario franchise? Let me see, best selling game for the N64, inspired other companies, and was fun to boot. Thanks to the success of Mario 64, we now have Mario Galaxy and Mario Galaxy 2, VERY, VERY highly rated games as well. I love 2D Mario games just as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to go overboard and call the transitional 2D-3D Mario game, a game that killed the franchise. It boosted it.

[tom]

Wolfenstein 3d as well, I always preferred the first two games

[Rob2600]

It amazes me the amount of people who bad mouth the current generation of games. Games didn't get any worse, you just got old and became an artifact. Some people evolve with technology and others try to shun it because they can only handle an A and B button before their brain explodes.

8-bit and 16-bit sports games are arguably more fun than Xbox 360 and PS3 sports games.

[kupomogli]

Really, Mario 64 killed the Mario franchise? Let me see, best selling game for the N64, inspired other companies, and was fun to boot.

Everything in this thread is opinion only, but I for one have always thought Mario 64 sucked. It's got one of the worst cameras in gaming history, every level is incredibly small and the only reason it has any replay value is because you're going back through the same levels over and over again either collecting 100 coins, getting the red coins, or stomping on a specific spot to recover a star, etc.

A collectathon with a terrible camera.

[Push Upstairs]

It amazes me the amount of people who bad mouth the current generation of games. Games didn't get any worse, you just got old and became an artifact. Some people evolve with technology and others try to shun it because they can only handle an A and B button before their brain explodes.

It must be the hip thing to assume that because someone doesn't like 3D game "A" that all they do is hate every single 3D game ever made.

[Ze_ro]

How about Ultima? Ultima IX was a travesty. I did like Underworld, but that doesn't really count.
I'd say that Ultima IX's 3D graphics were probably the best part of the game. The problems with the game went far, far deeper than it's presentation.

--Zero

[Ze_ro]

Rocket Knight Adventures
Punch Out
Alien Crush
R-Type
Thunder Force
Splatterhouse, if it ever comes out
Kid Icarus
Final Fantasy
Dragon Warrior
Phantasy Star
Warcraft
Command & Conquer
Okay, so you're complaining about a bunch of games where the 3D is completely irrelevant, and other games that haven't even been released yet? Way to be a huge whiner.

I can understand people not liking Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time... the gameplay was changed enough that I can accept that as a matter of preference... but how did Punch-Out Wii "ruin" the franchise by being in 3D?

--Zero

[Arkhan]

How about Ultima? Ultima IX was a travesty. I did like Underworld, but that doesn't really count.

Also, Golden Axe.

The 3D aspect isn't what ruined Ultima IX, seriously.

Ultima VIII was just as big a pile of shit. If EA hadn't been all herpy derpderp about Ultima (rushing the game, allowing buggy shit to get sold, cutting stuff), then 8 and 9 would have been just as good as the rest.

[Eduardo]

Sonic Adventure is a real hassle to play.

[Sonicwolf]

Sonic Adventure is a real hassle to play.

You can't really consider that game a franchise-ruiner. It was heralded at the time and was seen as a welcome update to a franchise which, at that time, was already languishing through the Saturn years.

I think Bubsy 3D is a fine example of a 2D to 3D conversion which tanked the entire franchise.

[Oldskool]

Okay, so you're complaining about a bunch of games where the 3D is completely irrelevant, and other games that haven't even been released yet? Way to be a huge whiner.

I can understand people not liking Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time... the gameplay was changed enough that I can accept that as a matter of preference... but how did Punch-Out Wii "ruin" the franchise by being in 3D?

--Zero

It's just a matter of personal opinion. I am an Oldskool gamer, and it will always be that way. Nothing can beat the classics, for me. And I will never change.

Reason why I added games that aren't even out yet (Kid Icarus, Splatterhouse), is because I'm sure it will just follow the trend like the others and be no where near as good as the originals.

Not being a whiner, just stating my opinion that's all. Everyone has a right to their opinion. And Punch Out, well I just threw that up on the list to illicit a response, I have actually yet to play it and it does look pretty good - I'm sure though that when I do - I won't like it as much as I like the original.

Most of the games on my list I truly believe went to crap. Hell look at Rygar. Garbage. Prince of Persia, Garbage. It's all just a bunch of garbage. Sorry that's just my opinion.

Now I do have to admit, that some of the games going to 3D were "somewhat ruined", but not "definetely" ruined. I'd say half of those games on the list were actually decent in 3D. Just not as good.

Has anyone tried the new Blaster Master for Wiiware? I've been thinking about nabbing it as it looks like the traditional 2D style game just with better graphics. Would I be sorely dissapointed.. again?

I'm just a grumpy old gamer, what can I say?

... runs back to the game room and pops in some Super Metroid...

[Dire 51]

Splatterhouse, if it ever comes out
Way to jump on the bandwagon. I've seen so many people slamming Splatterhouse after seeing a handful of screenshots or a video of the beta version displayed at E3, for example, and it's getting to the point where I just want to tell all of these self-styled critics to shove their opinions straight up their asses and shut the hell up until they've actually played the game. I've played it, can any of these "critics" say the same? Until they have, they're not even remotely qualified to say anything about it other than maybe "I don't like how it looks."

For that matter, I don't recall seeing a single negative comment from anyone that played the E3 demo. Hmmm.

[ReTrO-pLaYeR]

It's been said time and time again, but Bubsy 3D was a franchise murderer at its worst. The original 2D adventures have gained a cult following of sorts, but everybody ALWAYS feel sick when playing that particular outing. The entire game felt like it was in its alpha stage, from the sickly controls to the highly bland and polygon based graphics.

In a way, Rayman was also ruined by the 3D transition. Everything went great up until Ubisoft decided to throw in the maniacal Rabbids. The original Raving Rabbids proved to be a neat little diversion from the typical Rayman outing, but then Ubisoft decided to take the worst plan of action. They completely annihilated Rayman as the star of the show, replacing him with the Rabbids in some more mediocre mini-game mashups. I even wrote a letter to Nintendo Power a year or so back about the issue, and it even got printed into the paper. I can't remember what volume, but Red Steel 2 was on the cover. Not that it matters- I'm glad Rayman's at least coming back for a short bit with Origins on the way.

[Oldskool]

Way to jump on the bandwagon. I've seen so many people slamming Splatterhouse after seeing a handful of screenshots or a video of the beta version displayed at E3, for example, and it's getting to the point where I just want to tell all of these self-styled critics to shove their opinions straight up their asses and shut the hell up until they've actually played the game. I've played it, can any of these "critics" say the same? Until they have, they're not even remotely qualified to say anything about it other than maybe "I don't like how it looks."

For that matter, I don't recall seeing a single negative comment from anyone that played the E3 demo. Hmmm.

There is a Splatterhouse jumping bandwagon? I apparently had no idea of this. I am not a bandwagon jumping person, I base my own opinions from my own experience. Who knows, it might be the best game ever, but if history ever taught me a thing or two, it's that it probably won't be good.

No need to get personal and talk about shoving things up my ass. I'm not being hostile am I?

... runs back into the game room and pops in some Splatterhouse on the Turbografx...

[Arkhan]

all the splatterhouse haters are morons.

and, sonic adventure was good stuff. I played the hell out of it on Dreamcast.

The whole game was just you flying around slamming into shit to power metal, lol. Whats the problem!

more action than Unsuper Mario 64

[badinsults]

You can't really consider that game a franchise-ruiner. It was heralded at the time and was seen as a welcome update to a franchise which, at that time, was already languishing through the Saturn years.

I think Bubsy 3D is a fine example of a 2D to 3D conversion which tanked the entire franchise.

I would say that Bubsy 2 ruined the franchise. What a pile of crap. Not that Bubsy 1 was all that great to begin with.

[Oldskool]

You know me Ark, I am for sure not a Splatterhouse hater and that's the truth.

I have to admit, that the first Sonic Adventure was pretty good. I kind of think that after SA 2 that it just kind of went downhill from there.

As far as SMB64 goes. It *IS* a good game. Never said that it was not. It's just that, when I compare it to the classics it doesn't hold a candle. No Mario beats Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, and Yoshi's Island and I don't care what anyone says. Maybe once I try out some Galaxy my opinion will change. I should rent it or something, give it a chance.

Maybe I am stuck in the 80's, maybe I am close minded. I don't give a crap. Give me 2D and sprites or give me death! haha

[buzz_n64]

and, sonic adventure was good stuff. I played the hell out of it on Dreamcast.

The whole game was just you flying around slamming into shit to power metal, lol. Whats the problem!

more action than Unsuper Mario 64

*cough* BIG THE CAT *cough*

[Dire 51]

There is a Splatterhouse jumping bandwagon? I apparently had no idea of this. I am not a bandwagon jumping person, I base my own opinions from my own experience. Who knows, it might be the best game ever, but if history ever taught me a thing or two, it's that it probably won't be good.

No need to get personal and talk about shoving things up my ass. I'm not being hostile am I?
Sorry, that actually wasn't directed at you. I'm talking about all of those self-styled "critics" that I see commenting on every bit of news about the game, the ones that dismiss it as shit after looking at a handful of screenshots or a video, or the ones that constantly feel the need to compare it to other games when they haven't as much as played a demo. My apologies if my mini-rant came off as being aimed at you specifically.

And to be fair, once I get my hands on my review copy, I intend to give it a fair a review as possible. I haven't accepted any corporate money from Namco Bandai, just a handful of images, swag, etc. plus that VIP invite. If for some reason the game turns out to suck, I'll tell it like it is.

[Ze_ro]

In a way, Rayman was also ruined by the 3D transition. Everything went great up until Ubisoft decided to throw in the maniacal Rabbids.
Okay, so obviously that had nothing to do with going 3D.


and, sonic adventure was good stuff. I played the hell out of it on Dreamcast.

The whole game was just you flying around slamming into shit to power metal, lol. Whats the problem
The later levels had some really terrible camera angles. I think that left a bad taste in people's mouths. First half of the game was amazing though.

The new Splatterhouse looks good to me. Turning it into a 3D brawler is about the only way to go with it. The look of the main character is a bit odd, but as long as the action is there, who cares.

--Zero

[Aussie2B]

I base my own opinions from my own experience.

...it probably won't be good.

One of these things is not like the other.

Haha, what "experience"? The "experience" of finding out a game is in 3D and automatically stating that it sucks? Sure, everyone has a right to their opinions, but some are more respectable opinions than others. And opinions on the quality of a game that one hasn't even played (or anyone, for that matter) are about the bottom of the barrel.

[Oldskool]

One of these things is not like the other.

Haha, what "experience"? The "experience" of finding out a game is in 3D and automatically stating that it sucks? Sure, everyone has a right to their opinions, but some are more respectable opinions than others. And opinions on the quality of a game that one hasn't even played (or anyone, for that matter) are about the bottom of the barrel.

That didn't make any sense. Why would I automatically assume or say that the game sucks JUST because I found out that it's 3D? What, you don't think I don't give it a chance? Of course I am going to play a game for a while, or even a long while - then base my opinion of it.

When I say from my experience, I am talking about the 30 years of gaming that I have done. That's enough experience to know when a game is good or not, but again it's just a personal opinion - it's not your opinion or anyones.

Sure I have not played the new Kid Icarus, or Splatterhouse, I just feel that if it's been like anything else it's not going to live up to the original.

I know I am not the only one that feels that way. I know there are some other gamers that's been around long enough to feel the same way I do. If you think my opinion is the bottom of the barrel, well I just don't really give a shit. :moon:

[kupomogli]

Zelda
Castlevania
Metal Gear
Rocket Knight Adventures
Punch Out
Splatterhouse, if it ever comes out
Kid Icarus
Final Fantasy
Dragon Warrior
Phantasy Star
Warcraft
Command & Conquer
Prince of Persia

Basically if it existed then, and does now or has turned 3D - then it's been ruined.


I think I'll quote this list as well. A lot of these games have 3d iterations that are much better or 2d iterations that just suck.

Most 3d Final Fantasy games are good and if it does suck then it's definitely not due to graphics. I also haven't played a 3d Dragon Quest I didn't like, with Dragon Warrior 3 and 7 tied as my two favorite games in the series(one 2d, one 3d.)

Have you ever played Phantasy Star Online? Phantasy Star 1, 2, and 4 are great games, but Phantasy Star Online, 2, and Blue Burst are the best. That's not saying I wouldn't want a regular Phantasy Star game again someday.

Last. I just recently played the demo or Rocket Knight. I honestly thought it looked like crap and that it would suck. After playing the demo, I thought it was really good and if it wasn't for the $15 price and being DLC only I'd have purchased it right then. Sparkster for Genesis is the only game in the series that sucks in my opinion.

[ScourDX]

Metal slug 3d. Good thing it was never ported.

[Oldskool]

Yeah, I've played the hell out of Phantasy Star Zero on the DS. Also have some time in on Blue Burst. And while they are great games, I just didn't seem to enjoy them as much as I did playing through Phantasy Star IV.

The new RKA does indeed look good, and so does Sonic 4. If they maintain the 2D gameplay it might be worth a play. I do hate DLC content as well, but it still may be worth checking it out.

I really don't mind a good 2.5D game. The 3D Thunderforce and R-type games are a great example. While I prefer the originals over the 3D versions, at least they are 2.5D so they maintain the proper gameplay.

The new Castlevania appears that it's gonna be a God of War ripoff. I still prefer the Castlevanias on the NES and the GBA and DS versions. Now THOSE are some good games. I like a game that's got a methodical approach to them, the new Castlevania looks like it's gonna be a total no brains hack and slash type game to me. I guess I like games that I can sit the controller down for a second or scratch my forehead for a second without dying immediately, if that makes any sense. Maybe that's why I don't like the new Prince of Persia games either. They just don't have that relaxing puzzle/action gameplay that they used to have. I personally don't like to be on the edge of my seat every time I play a game.

Now as someone mentioned, I have to agree that the 3D versions of GTA are WAY BEYOND better than the older versions.

Thing is, the new generation of gamers prefer mad action, and I guess I can't blame them. When they see the old school style games they think they are too slow and what not.


I think I'll quote this list as well. A lot of these games have 3d iterations that are much better or 2d iterations that just suck.

Most 3d Final Fantasy games are good and if it does suck then it's definitely not due to graphics. I also haven't played a 3d Dragon Quest I didn't like, with Dragon Warrior 3 and 7 tied as my two favorite games in the series(one 2d, one 3d.)

Have you ever played Phantasy Star Online? Phantasy Star 1, 2, and 4 are great games, but Phantasy Star Online, 2, and Blue Burst are the best. That's not saying I wouldn't want a regular Phantasy Star game again someday.

Last. I just recently played the demo or Rocket Knight. I honestly thought it looked like crap and that it would suck. After playing the demo, I thought it was really good and if it wasn't for the $15 price and being DLC only I'd have purchased it right then. Sparkster for Genesis is the only game in the series that sucks in my opinion.

[rimsky82]

Does the new splatterhouse really qualify as a continuation of a series? It seems they made a new game, and used the SH name and guy with a mask to capitalize on the retro gamers excited for a remake. Since there was one game, and it consisted of a masked guy splattering enemies with a chainsaw and what-not, one can hardly say that 3D ruined anything.

It looks good nonetheless, although I may not really be interested when it comes out unless it gets rave reviews.

[Dire 51]

Does the new splatterhouse really qualify as a continuation of a series? It seems they made a new game, and used the SH name and guy with a mask to capitalize on the retro gamers excited for a remake. Since there was one game, and it consisted of a masked guy splattering enemies with a chainsaw and what-not, one can hardly say that 3D ruined anything.
There were three games, four if you include Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti for the Famicom. 1 and 2 were identical gameplay-wise, and 3 took the series in a different direction (it played more like Streets of Rage or Final Fight, compared to 1 and 2's Kung Fu Master-style gameplay), one that the new game actually seems to be the next logical step up from. The genuine horror atmosphere of the original games is something that endeared itself to the fans over the years.

But no, Splatterhouse '10 is not a continuation of the original series at all. That was completed with the end of 3. SH '10 is more or less a reboot of the series, retelling Splatterhouse 1's story. The story is fleshed out, the Mask's powers are showcased and there's finally a dialogue between Rick and the Mask right from the start.

Where most of the fan complaints come from is the damage BottleRocket did. They were pretty much throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the game because it was "cool," even if it didn't fit in with the whole Splatterhouse theme. That's how we ended up getting cybernetic chimps, giant wicker men, airplane hangars and all sorts of stuff that didn't come close to matching the atmosphere the original games had. The original trilogy was a Japanese take on American horror and slasher flicks, the new game under BottleRocket's direction was going to be The Mark of Kri 3 starring Rick Taylor. When Namco Bandai took it back they started addressing the issues the fans had with it - I've been told maintaining strong ties with the fanbase is something they want to keep doing - and changing it back to more of a rotting, diseased, gooey horror type of game that featured more undead stuff and horror locales than whatever the hell BottleRocket had in mind.


It looks good nonetheless, although I may not really be interested when it comes out unless it gets rave reviews.
Like I said, I intend to give it a fair review. Namco Bandai isn't paying me off so I'll write a glowing review of the game, so no worries there. If there are issues, I'll address them. If it flat out sucks, I'm going to say so, even if it costs me my working relationship with the company. I may be biased as a Splatterhouse fan, but I will not praise the game if it doesn't deserve it.

[rimsky82]

Thanks. I had no idea the game I used to play on the tg16 had such a strong story or fanbase. It all makes more sense to me now why there are such strong opinions about it. I also didn't know there were three games in the series.

Hopefully you'll find the new game nostalgically satisfying and fun.

[kedawa]

I've always felt that 2D games should get 2D (or 2.5D) sequels.
I don't have anything against 3D games, but what's the point of taking a classic 2D game, stripping it of everything that defines it, and slapping it into a 3D engine?
Just come up with a new property instead of running a classic one into the ground.

Mario 64 is a great game, but in no way is it a sequel to SMB4/SMW. It's a 3D spinoff that's great in its own right, but lacks almost everything that made SMB so endearing.

[Dire 51]

Thanks. I had no idea the game I used to play on the tg16 had such a strong story or fanbase. It all makes more sense to me now why there are such strong opinions about it. I also didn't know there were three games in the series.
The story was developed even more in the sequels (both for the Genesis). The games themselves (including the Famicom game) have had a legacy built up around them over the years, especially in the horror communities out there. Splatterhouse was the first game to cater specifically to their tastes and it's something they appreciated. It's also something they want to see replicated.


Hopefully you'll find the new game nostalgically satisfying and fun.
I hope so too. The demo I played I enjoyed quite a bit, I can tell you that - plus the sidescrolling sections look like tributes to the original games (they even added the wall-splat), although with quite a bit more platform action involved.

Even if the new one turns out to be not all that great, the original trilogy is included as unlockables (arcade version of 1, Genesis 2 & 3). That alone makes it worth the purchase - but then, as long as I've been championing the idea of a Splatterhouse compilation, it only makes sense for me to say that. LOL

But hey, since you've never heard of the other ones until now, you'll be able to check them out at a much lower price than you'd pay if you were try to buy them on eBay.

[Oldskool]

That's pretty cool that you are working with Namco on that, how did you fall into that?

[alec006]

Sonic The Hedgehog seires,I'm sorry but how the hell did Sonic get on Earth,what happend to Mobius huh? I mean they had the right idea for Sonic Jam with its limited 3D world, Sonic R despite the weird controls, Sonic 3D Blast,it was alright, and Sonic Xtreme....wait..that didn't come out...it should have,it would have been a great 3D Saturn game,maybe even a Dreamcast game. Granted Sonic Adventure is abit fun,but who in Sega decited to give them voices?! And lets face it,every single year we get a new character,if it's not that emo black hedgehog,it's some stupid retarted fat cat chasing around his frog and yelling froggy the entire game! That's not fun at all,that's not Sonic The Hedgehog!!

[jonebone]

It amazes me the amount of people who bad mouth the current generation of games. Games didn't get any worse, you just got old and became an artifact. Some people evolve with technology and others try to shun it because they can only handle an A and B button before their brain explodes.

I gotta quote myself because man I hit the nail on the head with OldSkool, it's clear he has a retro bias like none other.

We don't respect your opinion because it comes off as "fanboyish" with respect to console generation, biased toward retro.

I never argue in the X360 vs. PS3 debates unless the comments are made by someone who owns both consoles. They have a more objective opinion because they can relate to each. I have no interest in hearing a bunch of MS guys telling me that Sony has no games and I have no interest in a bunch of PS guys telling me that the 360 is nothing but a red ring failure.

So similarly, I have no interest in hearing someone that is stuck in the past tell me how bad 3D games have become when 99% of their gaming experience is on 2D systems. Of course you won't like the 3D because it is different and most people dislike change.

I can appreciate games from old to new since I've owned them from NES to X360. And I can honestly say that most games and genres have actually improved from the 3D transition, but to each their own.