Kinect pricing official, plus bundles

[Dobie]

$150.00 bundled w/ Kinect Adventures. No surprise there.

Bundled w/ a 4GB Arcade (w/ no other controller), $299.00.

So you can buy it separately for nearly the cost of the console or you can buy it bundled with a system and then have to purchase a controller to play their existing library of games. Doesn't scream "buy me." But to each their own I suppose.

EDIT: Correction, it apears that the console bundle DOES in fact have a controller. Initial images and descriptions I saw lacked one. Apparantly I was mistaken. Apologies!

[skaar]

The system bundle is odd but makes sense in a twisted sort of way... I guess.

I wonder if they have an onscreen keyboard for entering registration info :D

[nebrazca78]

Does any one else think Kinect is going to be a flop? I mean it costs as much as a Wii just for the Kinect apparatus. I agree with the OP, I don't see a reason to buy this and I don't think too many other people will either. Plus with the Wii every system sold comes with motion detection. With the Kinect you are going to have a very small installed user base for the foreseeable future. Point being how many developers are going to take the time to make Kinect games or even add Kinect support to games when hardly anyone is going to have one?

[portnoyd]

It's going to be a gigantic flop, as will the Move. Both will be seen as 360 and PS3's version of the 32X.

[nebrazca78]

It's going to be a gigantic flop, as will the Move. Both will be seen as 360 and PS3's version of the 32X.

More like M$ and Sony's versions of The Activator.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm trying SO HARD to wrap my brain around the idea of a game console shipping without a standard controller where 90% (maybe more at Kinect launch) of the console's software requires a standard controller.

I hate to make really polarized and/or blanket statements about ballsy decisions by game companies ... but this, this just doesn't make any real sense to me.

... or what little sense it does make seems to be that Microsoft knows that they need to purposefully PREVENT users who buy this bundle from having access to anything other than Kinect software or else they'll lose the consumer to the arguably superior side of the software/hardware that standard controls present.

[Dobie]

I'm trying SO HARD to wrap my brain around the idea of a game console shipping without a standard controller where 90% (maybe more at Kinect launch) of the console's software requires a standard controller.

I hate to make really polarized and/or blanket statements about ballsy decisions by game companies ... but this, this just doesn't make any real sense to me.

... or what little sense it does make seems to be that Microsoft knows that they need to purposefully PREVENT users who buy this bundle from having access to anything other than Kinect software or else they'll lose the consumer to the arguably superior side of the software/hardware that standard controls present.

To be fair, I was incorrect on the controller. I've since corrected the original post. My (huge) mistake.

[kedawa]

The bundle should be a good deal for people who want an arcade console and have a friend that wants kinect, since there's a $50 savings to split between them, but I have a feeling the kinect will get knocked down to the bargain bin pretty quick.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

To be fair, I was incorrect on the controller. I've since corrected the original post. My (huge) mistake.

Oh.

Well, there you go then. It would've made no sense.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Microsoft truly is the new Sega, hardware fiasco-wise. But also much more corporate asshole-ish and lame. Oh, and Sega could make games... Hurts to have to put that in the past tense, but there it is.

[Nature Boy]

Does any one else think Kinect is going to be a flop?

I think it will be very underwhelming to start, as the launch lineup doesn't exactly have anybody clamoring to spend money on the hardware.

Long term I have my doubts, but it's really dependent on how the device is supported and what types of games or applications support it and how well it's received, etc, etc.

[sixwayshot]

It's going to be a gigantic flop, as will the Move. Both will be seen as 360 and PS3's version of the 32X.

1994: Sega: We're releasing an add-on for the Genesis called the 32X! It'll cost $150 and it requires its' own special games that are BETTER 'CAUSE THEY HAVE TEH GRAFX OMG.

2010: Microsoft: We're releasing an add-on for the Xbox 360 called Kinect. It'll cost $150 and it requires its' own special games that are BETTER CAUSE U DONT USE NO CONTROLLERZ OMG

2010: Sony: We're releasing an add-on for the Playstation 3 called the Move. It'll cost $50 per remote, $25 for a special add-on remote, and $150 for the Playstation Eye that you totally didn't buy three years ago. It requires its' own special games that are BETTER CAUSE WE ARE BEING REALLY ORIGINAL HERE AND THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER ALTERNATIVES OMG

2010: Nintendo: We're releasing new games for the Wii. Everything you've ever wanted and more. We're also releasing a 3D handheld console that does 3D without glasses and it makes our competition look like assholes for requiring glasses.

Ugh.

I'm not that sold on Kinect. I think it'll flop pretty hard. The Move looks promising, but it's nothing I don't have on my Wii.

But, who knows. Maybe it'll be a hit. Move does have a lot of potential, but it's still way too effin' expensive right now. If they dropped the price or bundled everything you need in a package, I'd seriously consider buying it.

[kupomogli]

Oh, and Sega could make games... Hurts to have to put that in the past tense, but there it is.

Sega was in a slump for quite awhile but they did release some good stuff alongside all that crap as well as being one of the best developers/publishers in the past year.


It'll cost $50 per remote, $25 for a special add-on remote, and $150 for the Playstation Eye that you totally didn't buy three years ago.

You can use a standard PS3 controller instead of using the nunchuk ripoff. The Playstation Eye is also $40. There's also a bundle with the Move, the PS Eye, and a game for $99.

Also. I totally didn't buy the Playstation Eye three years ago. The exact same that's going to happen with Move as well.

[Shingetter]

I hate motion crap on the wii, why would I spend any more money on more motion crap I didn't like the first time? (rhetorical question)

[Bojay1997]

Sega was in a slump for quite awhile but they did release some good stuff alongside all that crap as well as being one of the best developers/publishers in the past year.



You can use a standard PS3 controller instead of using the nunchuk ripoff. The Playstation Eye is also $40. There's also a bundle with the Move, the PS Eye, and a game for $99.

Also. I totally didn't buy the Playstation Eye three years ago. The exact same that's going to happen with Move as well.

The idea that people are gonna use the PS3 controller instead of the Nav controller is total BS. It is very unfortable to do so and while it's possible, it's not practical. Also, there are some games like The Fight which require two Move controllers (one for each hand) per player. Really, if you want to have the full range of options for one player, it's closer to $200 to start and another $80-$100 for an additional player.

[portnoyd]

I hate motion crap on the wii, why would I spend any more money on more motion crap I didn't like the first time? (rhetorical question)

All kinds of this.

[Greg2600]

When did motion control because this massive "game changer?" The Wii made a big splash with it, and because MS/Sony sat on their butts, Nintendo reaped all the rewards. The novelty has worn off. But I still think it was wise for MS and Sony to offer something. I think the Kinect has potential to differential itself, but in reality this is Microsoft just looking to shore up their own base.

Comparison to SEGA is not exactly 1 to 1, because SEGA released new machines and almost immediately ceased support of the old ones, leaving those users basically SOL.

[Nebagram]

I've got the Move pre-ordered (largely as I already have the Eye) but I honestly can't see me spending anything more than £40 on Kinect- which will likely be about 3 months after launch if this level of enthusiasm for it is maintained. The sooner this motion-sensitive crap is dispensed with and people realise there's a reason standard controllers with buttons and joysticks have been the norm for 35 years, the better.

[The 1 2 P]

I think Kinect has alot of potential(both in future games and in voice-command applications) but $149 is alittle too much to be paying for "future potential". I also don't think either it or Move will be a flop out of the gate. Why? Because people are pretty idiotic when it comes to holiday shopping and they are more likely to splurge during that time than any other time of the year.

Now if we're talking after the holidays, then yeah--Kinect and Move are both going to be struggling then. Unless one of them becomes a surprise hit like the $90 Wii Fit balance board. I would have never pegged that as being such a huge success either but we all know how that ended up.

[Dangerboy]

Between the 2, I think Kinect has the most potential, especially since you could use the controller in league with it. For $150, you're done. No more nunchuks, navigation controllers, Motion Pluses, etc.

The $300 bundle is the best trojan horse I've seen as far as getting what you want into the consumers' home. High def game system, motion control, dvd player, wireless network, etc.

I fear for the Move. It's been confirmed that the boxing game Sony shows in the Kevin Butler ad requires two moves. Meaning you need TWO $50 controllers to play 1 game. Plus the Navigation Controllers a la Nunchuks (I can't imagine the Sixaxis being a suitable stand-in), and truth be told, Sony's pack in is a Wii Sports Resort / Play rip off to tee.

I have a Kinect pre-ordered, and I'll pick up for the Novelty, just like the Wii. And just like the Wii, I'm sure there will be some amazing niche games for it (I'd kill for a Zach and Wiki Kinect).

[skaar]

Honestly, I would use the Kinetic's yoga/trainer stuff over the Wii stuff any day. I was actually quite impressed with it - I learned some Tai Chi Chuan!

[TonyTheTiger]

When did motion control because this massive "game changer?" The Wii made a big splash with it, and because MS/Sony sat on their butts, Nintendo reaped all the rewards. The novelty has worn off. But I still think it was wise for MS and Sony to offer something. I think the Kinect has potential to differential itself, but in reality this is Microsoft just looking to shore up their own base.

I think this is even more of a novelty than the Wii. I honestly don't think the Wii was a success because of the motion controls. That may have been a nifty draw but the success came because the Wii was by far and away offering inexpensive and accessible games. The motion controls were incidental to that.

Here you have MS and Sony, who already have an established core, trying to expand into motion controls. I think what a lot of companies haven't figured out is that while consumers may be willing to take a chance with a new machine that offers something unique (Wii) they're less willing to take the machines they're already familiar with into unfamiliar territory.

People get comfortable. They knew what the Wii was when they first bought it and got used to it for what it is. But they also knew what the 360 was when they first bought it. After being conditioned that the 360 was what it was, the release of a new peripheral that wildly changes the interactivity just doesn't look as appealing. They already "know" what the 360 is good for and what games are worthwhile. So deviations are meant more often than not with indifference.


Comparison to SEGA is not exactly 1 to 1, because SEGA released new machines and almost immediately ceased support of the old ones, leaving those users basically SOL.

Yeah, Sega's fumbling with the 32X isn't quite the same thing. I think both Kinect and Move will be getting ample support alongside the traditional 360 and PS3 software. It's just that they'll need to either pump out lots of really good games or find a way to drop the entry fee or not a whole lot of people will take the plunge.

And there's the catch-22 of expensive peripherals. The entry fee is too high for most people unless there's a solid library. But publishers won't invest in the peripherals unless the userbase is there. MS and Sony need to do the unthinkable to really get this to take off. They need to convince at least a couple of publishers to release flagship titles for Kinect and Move. Like they need to convince EA to do something with Madden. Nobody is going to spend $150 to pet a baby tiger.

[garagesaleking!!]

I have no interest at all in the kinect, and that was before I even saw the price, after seeing the price the zero interest I had dwindled to laughing at it. I own a 360 because I like playing with a controller. I have seen what the Wii offers and dont like it. It is good for a few games here and there, but nothing more. I would rather bank my money away for the xbox 3 which will surely launch in the near future after kinect flops.

[Enigmus]

When I first saw both Kinect and Move, me and every one of my friends knew it was an overpriced cash-in. The color-changing bulb on the Move has become a joke between us all due to the stupidity of it. It may be able to tell lighting in a room, but why did they need to make it a light-up ball? Even worse, my 24 year old sister said the Kinect sounded like a good thing, and she's the type who's into Farmville of all things. Expect to see this in the bargain bin by Q3 2011, right after Microsoft finally announces a replacement to the 360, which has already been around half a decade.

Also, when comparing Microsoft to SEGA, keep in mind that the reason Xbox production ended soon was because Nvidia stopped production of its GPU in 2005, meaning that they had to release the 360 soon or else the worldwide supply of Xboxes would run dry atleast a year later and leave consumers dissatisfied with Microsoft's handle on the video gaming market.

[Dobie]

Honestly, I would use the Kinetic's yoga/trainer stuff over the Wii stuff any day. I was actually quite impressed with it - I learned some Tai Chi Chuan!

The fitness games like the Yoga and Tai Chi are what interest me also. In all seriousness, this is something I could use every day. I take a Yoga class a couple times a week, and it would be nice to be able to get a similar experience at home if I want. I can see scenarios with these games being the killer app for the house mom and fitness concious set, much like Wii Fit is. But MS needs to win over the core consumers first, and Zumba Dance Party isn't going to do it.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

... the Move has become a joke between us all due to the stupidity of it. It may be able to tell lighting in a room, but why did they need to make it a light-up ball?...

Move is a visual technology.

It's a sphere because a sphere doesn't change shape when viewed from any angle and scales in size as it moves closer to/away from the camera without actually having a "forced perspective" on the image plane. (Allowing for tracking in 3D space)

And the reason that the sphere changes color is primarily so that the camera system can recognize/interpret multiple users at the same time. (as well as other aesthetic things like purposefully changing color to diferentiate itself from the objects around it in the space).

I'm not really sure what's stupid about any of that ... it's actually the most technicaly complex of any of the motion control options.

[stonecutter]

Bundle Kinect with some good Leisure Suit Larry.

[Enigmus]

Move is a visual technology.

It's a sphere because a sphere doesn't change shape when viewed from any angle and scales in size as it moves closer to/away from the camera without actually having a "forced perspective" on the image plane. (Allowing for tracking in 3D space)

And the reason that the sphere changes color is primarily so that the camera system can recognize/interpret multiple users at the same time. (as well as other aesthetic things like purposefully changing color to diferentiate itself from the objects around it in the space).

I'm not really sure what's stupid about any of that ... it's actually the most technicaly complex of any of the motion control options.

Thanks, man. I was trying to find a reasonable explanation behind the pricing on Move and the strange bulb, and this helps explain part of the pricing, with the other part being a tactic to take advantage of narrow-minded casuals.

Still, Kinect looks a bit bad. What if something blocks one of the cameras, such as dust? And how good does it work when people inconveniently walk past the camera while you're playing? I'd give it at least two months before finally saying it either sucks or works.


Bundle Kinect with some good Leisure Suit Larry.

Considering modern LSL has come down to this, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_office_bust) that gives Kinect the same lifespan as the 32X.

[stonecutter]

Thats not good LSL lol, we need old school popularity or a bit of a re-write. I never played the game linked to, but isn't that his nephew.

[WCP]

I have no interest at all in the kinect, and that was before I even saw the price, after seeing the price the zero interest I had dwindled to laughing at it. I own a 360 because I like playing with a controller. I have seen what the Wii offers and dont like it. It is good for a few games here and there, but nothing more. I would rather bank my money away for the xbox 3 which will surely launch in the near future after kinect flops.

Wow.... Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way. A $150 price is absolutely ridiculous. It would have still been ridiculous even if Dance Central was a pack-in, but it's definitely more insane that MS didn't work out a deal with Harmonix to have that as the pack-in. It's the only thing even remotely resembling a killer app for Kinect.

I also was expecting like 2 or 3 different games to be bundled with Kinect. I was thinking Ricochet, Kinect Sports and one other game. But only one game? That's pretty lame.

It's unbelievable that MS is trying to get $150 for this thing, when you can't even sit down while playing it. They are truly bold to think this is going to fly.

[kupomogli]

And how good does it work when people inconveniently walk past the camera while you're playing?

You could say the same with the Wii or Move though.

The Wii sensor bar is what makes the Wii extremely inaccurate. You can't very well put the sensor bar in the middle of your tv so if you put it above your tv you need to aim higher or if it's below your tv you need to aim lower.

Like on a Time Crisis game where it asks you to point to the middle of the screen you can do that with the Wiimote, but a lot of the time when you do that, the Wiimote happens to lose connection with the sensor bar because it's not visible by the sensor bar. Retarded technology.

The Move seems like it's actually an accurate Wiimote. Don't get me wrong, it's still going to be a piece of shit, but it's going to be a piece of shit that works like the developers want. Reason I think it'd be accurate is the camera is going to cover a wide area, so unless people walk by or you're not in the same room, then it would be displayed.

The Kinect is the same as the Move. Unless you're not in the same room or someone walks in front of you, then the connect seems like it would be accurate. Needing no controllers is the best part about Kinect though. You can get anything and use it as an accessory. When Ace Combat Kinect comes out you can use your penis as a flight stick. Flight simulation that a man and woman can enjoy together.

[swlovinist]

What a joke, this add on is going to fail. $150 for an add-on during these economic times?

[Icarus Moonsight]

Move is a visual technology.

It's a sphere because a sphere doesn't change shape when viewed from any angle and scales in size as it moves closer to/away from the camera without actually having a "forced perspective" on the image plane. (Allowing for tracking in 3D space)

And the reason that the sphere changes color is primarily so that the camera system can recognize/interpret multiple users at the same time. (as well as other aesthetic things like purposefully changing color to diferentiate itself from the objects around it in the space).

I'm not really sure what's stupid about any of that ... it's actually the most technicaly complex of any of the motion control options.

Is it controller or LiteBright!? I dunno...

Move Glowstick Hero is going to pwn.

[Nature Boy]

I honestly don't think the Wii was a success because of the motion controls. That may have been a nifty draw but the success came because the Wii was by far and away offering inexpensive and accessible games. The motion controls were incidental to that

I totally disagree, because I'd argue that it's the motion controls that make it accessible in the first place. If the Wii uses a traditional controller as it's main interface there's *no way* it sells the way it did and still does.

[TonyTheTiger]

The PS2 pretty much did it. So did the DS. The Wii's controller is incidental to all the other factors that made it a draw. Had the machine been motion controlled but cost as much as a PS3 it probably would have sold about as much as the PS3. Actually, far less considering it would lack the bells and whistles of the PS3.

[atarikurt]

Kinnect will bomb. Demo it at Macys where you can stroke Skittles in front of your friends. The huge D-bag in purple sweat pants and mirror rimmed glasses that is in charge of it makes me want to puke.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

I got a chance to actually try out the Kinect in the Microsoft Store here in Scottsdale, AZ. I found it unimpressive. It's nothing different than I'd see on the Wii except that it's 360-graphics instead of Wii-graphics. A kid was "trying" to play Kinect Adventures with his father and, in my opinion, the game seemed as responsive as the Wii. They were also REALLY trying to get me to preorder the thing there...

As for the Move, it seems like a more accurate Wiimote. I only want it right now for the Big 3 Gun Shooting game (One disc = Razing Storm, Time Crisis 4 and DeadStorm Pirates!). Hopefully the accuracy on light gun games is way better than the Wi...

[Enigmus]

The Wii sensor bar is what makes the Wii extremely inaccurate. You can't very well put the sensor bar in the middle of your tv so if you put it above your tv you need to aim higher or if it's below your tv you need to aim lower.

Like on a Time Crisis game where it asks you to point to the middle of the screen you can do that with the Wiimote, but a lot of the time when you do that, the Wiimote happens to lose connection with the sensor bar because it's not visible by the sensor bar. Retarded technology.

I agree with that. Every time I try to use their internet browser or pretty much anything, it either jitters on the keyboard screen, disappears when it hits the left side of the screen, or, even worse, the batteries die during gameplay. I even had to finally buy rechargeable Energizers just to combat that. If only all menus and channels used the Classic Controller for control instead of the Wii Remote, then it'd be fine, but once your cat or anything dare tries to knock the sensor bar one millimeter to the right, then say hello to the seizure raving form of the remote cursor.


The Kinect is the same as the Move. Unless you're not in the same room or someone walks in front of you, then the connect seems like it would be accurate. Needing no controllers is the best part about Kinect though. You can get anything and use it as an accessory. When Ace Combat Kinect comes out you can use your penis as a flight stick. Flight simulation that a man and woman can enjoy together.

I've read reports of mass bannings from Xbox Live for people on Uno Live exposing themselves, so if there's a mode where it can show other players that you're on and it all of a sudden pops up on your friends' TVs with that, then you're pretty much warranting a ban from Live doing that. Still, I can't wait for the stories coming from Kinect users talking about how they got banned from Live for stroking something other than Skittles LOL.


Kinnect will bomb. Demo it at Macys where you can stroke Skittles in front of your friends. The huge D-bag in purple sweat pants and mirror rimmed glasses that is in charge of it makes me want to puke.

Even worse, your description of the operator reminded me of this person:

http://www.spock.com/i/NNL1lyWNh/Mc-Hammer.jpg

Yeah, it's going to bomb. Even MC Hammer's awesomeness cannot save such an expensive, faulty device. Expect a massive tidal wave of $20 Kinects no one will buy until they appear on eBay alongside all the 32Xes.

[TonyTheTiger]

You do realize that an MC Hammer game would actually be awesome, right?

[Enigmus]

You do realize that an MC Hammer game would actually be awesome, right?

Yeah, that would help sell the Kinect, actually. I'm actually waiting for a DJ Hero for Kinect because it allows for the possibility of using anything as a fake turntable- dishes, serving trays, even other DJ Hero controllers if you're not up to the challenge of scraping your nails against a plate. That, and it'd be worth it to have MC Hammer on there. There wasn't much of his music in the first game, which is sorta sad. Good thing they made up for it with all the Daft Punk mixes.

Also, don't mention Guitar Hero for Kinect being possible. Air guitar is annoying enough, using it to play Guitar Hero is worse.

[chicnstu]

I got a chance to actually try out the Kinect in the Microsoft Store here in Scottsdale, AZ. I found it unimpressive. It's nothing different than I'd see on the Wii except that it's 360-graphics instead of Wii-graphics. A kid was "trying" to play Kinect Adventures with his father and, in my opinion, the game seemed as responsive as the Wii. They were also REALLY trying to get me to preorder the thing there...

As for the Move, it seems like a more accurate Wiimote. I only want it right now for the Big 3 Gun Shooting game (One disc = Razing Storm, Time Crisis 4 and DeadStorm Pirates!). Hopefully the accuracy on light gun games is way better than the Wi...

I'm not understanding what you are talking about when you say the Wii Remote isn't accurate. I see zero, absolutely no lag when using the IR pointer on the Wii Remote. That's why it works so well for shooters. Where I have seen lag, though, is in videos of Move. It is just a video and not me trying it in person, but in the videos I've seen where it shows the person standing in front of the screen using the Move, I notice lag that is about the same as or slightly worse than Wii Motion Plus. Natal lag? Of course, that's there too.

I've been a member for almost 6 years, but I haven't been enjoying DP lately. It seems DP is back to "Nintendo Hate Mode". It was Sony hate before now, and before the Sony hate, it was Nintendo hate. Lose the hate DP!

[Zthun]

Don't forget that the kinect automatically allows 4 player control upon purchase, while the move only allows 1. So if you wanted to set your ps3 up for 4 move controllers, you'd have to shell out 200 bucks alone for 4 moves.

The wii is still the cheapest for 4 player setup, since if you had to buy 4 raw wiimotes, you'd spend about 120 bucks. Most people spend 90 since 1 wiimote already comes with the system.

I wish it was like it was back in the day when you could get an NES console with all cords, two games, two controllers, and the zapper for $100.

And MC Hammer sucked. Yeah, I said it. Anyone wanna go?

[exit]

I can see both the Kinect and Move bombing, but if I had to choose I'd pick the Move since I already have an eyetoy for my PS3.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

I'm not understanding what you are talking about when you say the Wii Remote isn't accurate. I see zero, absolutely no lag when using the IR pointer on the Wii Remote. That's why it works so well for shooters. Where I have seen lag, though, is in videos of Move. It is just a video and not me trying it in person, but in the videos I've seen where it shows the person standing in front of the screen using the Move, I notice lag that is about the same as or slightly worse than Wii Motion Plus. Natal lag? Of course, that's there too.

I've been a member for almost 6 years, but I haven't been enjoying DP lately. It seems DP is back to "Nintendo Hate Mode". It was Sony hate before now, and before the Sony hate, it was Nintendo hate. Lose the hate DP!

Well, it is for me. The Wiimote is not as accurate as a lightgun, nowhere near it. While it IS doable, there has always been some lag, whether it be small or large. It feels more like I am dragging a cursor rather than shooting like in Ghost Squad but it's less noticeable for me in HotD 2 & 3 and Overkill. As for how well the Move will do, I just hope it "feels" more like a light gun than the Wiimote...

As for your second comment, I am in no way a fanboy of ANY company and have never been on my 25 years of gaming now. I still see the good...and bad...in what every company does....

[Enigmus]

Don't forget that the kinect automatically allows 4 player control upon purchase, while the move only allows 1. So if you wanted to set your ps3 up for 4 move controllers, you'd have to shell out 200 bucks alone for 4 moves.

The wii is still the cheapest for 4 player setup, since if you had to buy 4 raw wiimotes, you'd spend about 120 bucks. Most people spend 90 since 1 wiimote already comes with the system.

I wish it was like it was back in the day when you could get an NES console with all cords, two games, two controllers, and the zapper for $100.

And MC Hammer sucked. Yeah, I said it. Anyone wanna go?

Yes, but the Kinect is camera controlled, so unless the room your Kinect is in is spacious, it'll screw up from having four different people play. It's controlled by two cameras that, as Bojay said, can scan up to two people, not a 3D laser scanning system that can detect where a person is at in the room. Depending on how the software handles when it finally comes out, it might be able to handle four people really well, but I doubt it for now. The Wii is able to do it best right now because its system runs on IR sensing and accelerometers in the remote and the Motion Plus thing you plug on the end And don't we all wish it was as simple as the classic two controllers and a light gun package, which can't happen anymore due to production costs and the price of such a bundle with today's inflation and pricing from overall contents? Sorry for being a downer on that, but it's pretty much true.

[Bojay1997]

Don't forget that the kinect automatically allows 4 player control upon purchase, while the move only allows 1. So if you wanted to set your ps3 up for 4 move controllers, you'd have to shell out 200 bucks alone for 4 moves.

The wii is still the cheapest for 4 player setup, since if you had to buy 4 raw wiimotes, you'd spend about 120 bucks. Most people spend 90 since 1 wiimote already comes with the system.

I wish it was like it was back in the day when you could get an NES console with all cords, two games, two controllers, and the zapper for $100.

And MC Hammer sucked. Yeah, I said it. Anyone wanna go?

Actually, that Kinect info is not correct. It will recognize movements from up to two players at once, although the camera can actually track (i.e. just loop their image onto the screen in games like Dance Central) up to four players. So, I would say that it's about the same price as two Move controllers and the Eye Toy camera at roughly $140 outside of a bundle. Yes, for some games, you'll want to add the Nav controller (I'm sorry, nobody will use the Dualshock, it's too bulky) or a second Move per player. So, in theory the Move could be more expensive for some configurations. The Wii is still the cheapest option by far because you get the console, two really good games, a controller and motion plus for under $200 now. It also still has a much larger library of excellent motion games.

[Press_Start]

It isn't Kinect that worries me as much as the class action lawsuit slamming MS from their new "Wii-crowd" when their 360 RROD's for the 5th time.

One thing I've learned this generation is gamers (especially PS360Wii fanboys) act both benevolent and spiteful....or beneviteful....or spitvolent or whatever.
The formula is usually:
360 gamer FORGIVE rrod, HATE ps3 and wii.
PS3 gamer FORGIVE early lack of exclusives, HATE 360 and wii.
Wii gamer FORGIVE....forgive...lack of...HD support?...and jealous the DS has a better library?

Bottom line is MS should fix their old problems before their new audience screws them. And yes, I've heard they "fixed" the rrod in the slim model but didn't they say that for the elite?

[ubersaurus]

Kinect could get something going with the proper releases for it. I have a friend who works for Microsoft, and they've had a lot of fun with the thing even in its prototype state. It's just a matter of getting games out that use it effectively, and that is the question.

As for the Move, well. Shoehorning Move controls into existing games is fine and all for new system owners, but I don't see the market for people to just pick up the controller and replay their old stuff with it.

[Bojay1997]

Kinect could get something going with the proper releases for it. I have a friend who works for Microsoft, and they've had a lot of fun with the thing even in its prototype state. It's just a matter of getting games out that use it effectively, and that is the question.

As for the Move, well. Shoehorning Move controls into existing games is fine and all for new system owners, but I don't see the market for people to just pick up the controller and replay their old stuff with it.

Yes, but it's a quick and easy way to build a huge library for their motion controller right out the door. Frankly, I'm curious to at least try Heavy Rain and RE5 Gold with motion control and assuming it is very inexpensive or free to get the Move patch for both, I will readily do so. As for Kinect, I will pick one up, but like a lot of people, only because of its future potential. The launch titles look completely horrible and I don't believe it will ever be able to deliver precision control like Wii or Move.

[chicnstu]

Well, it is for me. The Wiimote is not as accurate as a lightgun, nowhere near it. While it IS doable, there has always been some lag, whether it be small or large. It feels more like I am dragging a cursor rather than shooting like in Ghost Squad but it's less noticeable for me in HotD 2 & 3 and Overkill. As for how well the Move will do, I just hope it "feels" more like a light gun than the Wiimote...

You must be playing in a room with lots of lighting or other interference. I can even shake the Wii Remote really fast and I see no lag and it doesn't feel at all like the cursor is dragging behind my own motions. It feels perfect and just as responsive as buttons. But, when using my mom's Wii, I notice a good amount of lag and shakiness because the room it is in is full of lights, windows, mirrors, and curios.

I don't expect the Move to be any better than the Wii Remote's IR, I still expect it to be about the same as Wii Motion Plus. With the Move, the technology for swinging a sword is the same as the technology used to aim a gun - the camera. That means whatever lag you notice (the PGA Tour E3 demo is a good example), you'll see in a shooter. But for games besides shooters, Move surely works as well as a Wii Remote. Here is a page that really stood out to me:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/playstation-move-controller-lag-analysis-blog-entry

More on topic: I'm not seeing the potential of Kinect yet. I'm just not seeing how most of the traditional games can be played as well as they could if they were played with Wii Remote + Nunchuck or Move + Sub-controller. It just doesn't seem as versatile. It seems that, for traditional games (like a shooter or platformer), smaller things would be best. Like waving your hand for Biotics in Mass Effect 3, but the rest of the game controlled with the 360 controller.

[kupomogli]

The Wii is still the cheapest option by far because you get the console, two really good games, a controller and motion plus for under $200 now. It also still has a much larger library of excellent motion games.

If you already own a 360 or PS3 then the Wii isn't the cheapest. And the Wii being under $200. Oh wow, a whole penny. If I buy a Wii for its current price I'll send you my savings through Paypal. You might want to put it in the bank and collect interest.

I think the whole PS360 market concept is to mainly try and get people who don't have a Wii already as well as hoping their existing user base picks up the accessories.

Also for two players the Kinect is less than the Move if you're adamant about getting the Nav controllers so $150 really isn't a high price when you think about it. Besides. Like someone else said, both Kinect and Move are going to drop in price within a few months more than likely, so why not just wait until then to pick them up, or wait until they go on sale.

*edit*

Kinect with free shipping is only $90 before tax if you preorder at Toys R Us today only. Diatribal Deity posted it but I'm copying it here for some that may be interested but might not look over in the deals section today. I tested it out to see if it works. It seems that it's also free shipping because shows the shipping costs and then minus' them off. In error more than likely because right below taking off the shipping charges it states not for video game consoles, games, and accessories.


40% Off Microsoft Kinect - Toys R Us deal added to OP. May or may not remain valid.

(07/22/2010 ONLY) 40% Off Microsoft Kinect - Toys R Us ENTER CODE 939406 (Please note: this may or may not remain valid.)

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1746803#post1746803

[Icarus Moonsight]

If you already own a Ferrari, a bicycle isn't cheap either.

If you already own a summer residence/vacation property, time-share is not at all appealing...

If you already own a pair of bowling shoes, you're not going to rent.

If you already ate, you're not going to be hungry.

If the sun is up, you don't need a flashlight.

[Lerxstnj]

My 360 is not Kinect ready... Fail!
I don't want it anyway.

[Dobie]

My 360 is not Kinect ready... Fail!
I don't want it anyway.

All 360 systems work w/ Kinect. There's just not a dedicated port for it on the older models. Failure in MS marketing, definitely. I think the "Kinect Ready" messaging on the box of the new SKUs is confusing to consumers, and may actually hurt sales of both the Kinect and their console.

[Enigmus]

All 360 systems work w/ Kinect. There's just not a dedicated port for it on the older models. Failure in MS marketing, definitely. I think the "Kinect Ready" messaging on the box of the new SKUs is confusing to consumers, and may actually hurt sales of both the Kinect and their console.

Finally, the Xbox line finally got the Microsoft curse permanently. I'm going to laugh at all the talks between people about how they bought a $150 webcam and their Xbox didn't have a port for it from now on. The 32X is finally returning, at long last! LOL

[Bojay1997]

If you already own a 360 or PS3 then the Wii isn't the cheapest. And the Wii being under $200. Oh wow, a whole penny. If I buy a Wii for its current price I'll send you my savings through Paypal. You might want to put it in the bank and collect interest.

I think the whole PS360 market concept is to mainly try and get people who don't have a Wii already as well as hoping their existing user base picks up the accessories.

Also for two players the Kinect is less than the Move if you're adamant about getting the Nav controllers so $150 really isn't a high price when you think about it. Besides. Like someone else said, both Kinect and Move are going to drop in price within a few months more than likely, so why not just wait until then to pick them up, or wait until they go on sale.

*edit*

Kinect with free shipping is only $90 before tax if you preorder at Toys R Us today only. Diatribal Deity posted it but I'm copying it here for some that may be interested but might not look over in the deals section today. I tested it out to see if it works. It seems that it's also free shipping because shows the shipping costs and then minus' them off. In error more than likely because right below taking off the shipping charges it states not for video game consoles, games, and accessories.



http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1746803#post1746803


Not sure what that tone is about. I have both Move and Kinect already pre-ordered, but I'm not an average consumer. The difference in my view with Wii is you get a whole console including the motion control technology built-in, two great games and a controller for $200, plus a huge existing library with some excellent games already available. With Move and Kinect, all you are getting is the controller and possibly one pack-in game if you buy the proper bundle, so I don't necessarily understand why an average consumer, PS3/360 owner or not would walk into a store and think Kinect or Move is a particularly good deal.

[Dobie]

Finally, the Xbox line finally got the Microsoft curse permanently. I'm going to laugh at all the talks between people about how they bought a $150 webcam and their Xbox didn't have a port for it from now on. The 32X is finally returning, at long last! LOL

LOL. I didn't even think about how hard MS screwed themselves with Windows and its 1000 different SKU levels and feature sets. But yeah, they are kind of doing it again, maybe not on the same level. "Kinect Ready" implies you old kit won't work, which it does, but you have to plug Kinect into its own power source, unlike the new 360 which has a proprietary connection for power and data.

They should have put "Kinect works with your existing Xbox 360." But then again, MS hasn't announced how they're packaging the extra power supply for original Xbox 360 owners. Hopefully that's not an extra $20-30 accessory. Would they do it? Doubtful. Would I put it past them? No.

[WCP]

I wouldn't mind "renting" Kinect for a month. I honestly think it would be a good bit of fun, but that it would get real old... real quick. It's been a very long time since Blockbuster has rented hardware, but it would be cool if you could rent Kinect and a couple Kinect games from Blockbuster for a weekend. I'd definitely try it out.




But actually buying the thing for $150 plus tax? Absolutely not. If you got the coin to just drop $163 (after tax) on it, then more power to you. I don't have that kind of money to blow. I really think Kinect should be $99, and should include a demo of Dance Central. I'd have no problem buying it at that price. I just can't fade a buck fifty.

[Therealqtip]

people care about kinect?

[portnoyd]

People care about watching it fail.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'll never understand people celebrating failure.

[portnoyd]

Figure that out and you'll be able to stop rubbernecking delays on highways.

[DonMarco]

I don't understand all the negativity surrounding the Kinect. For years we've been waiting for a new console and MS has offered us a new 360 model and a cool 360 accessory to breathe new life in the system. If the Kinect does poorly, MS isn't packing up and leaving the industry. If the Kinect succeeds then good for them. Being released so close the the holidays surely won't hurt sales as a $150 new video game thing that isn't a Wii (which MANY households already have) and half the cost of a PS3.

For those people that want one, there are 360+Kinect bundles, standalone sales and a dozen new games at launch. It's cooler that the Wiimote and Move. It's being utilized by the dashboard, video chat, and voice recognition. It's one thing to buy instead of one unit per player. Even for all the faults it has and will have (like not working well with skirts), there were similar problems with the Wii (strap breaking, TV smashing). And on the plus side, it's all software, which means patching such an issue would be quicker and cheaper than physically building new units.

For those people that don't want one. They can buy just a regular 360 (new design) or ignore the launch all together. In no way will the Kinect impact your life. Gear of War 3 will not require it to play (although it would be cool if it did use it for a "casual mode"). You can still use the Xbox dashboard and watch Netflix and send messages. Point and laugh until it sells well enough and years later you pick up one for $100 or when its bundled in with new units. Or when it fails miserably and is price-slashed to $50, like what happened to the HD-DVD drives.

At $150 a pop, MS is making money off every unit sold. They're appealing to an audience that wants to play games in a new way. Be it the Wii's casual crowd, overactive kids, people with arthritis, people that can't grip controllers... Many of whom aren't people who are as likely to be posting online (here) in the first place.

[portnoyd]

The negativity is because the Kinect is a day late, a buck short. It's still motion control and the Wii crowd already has a Wii so who exactly are they going to sell it to? It was created for the sole purpose of taking market share from the Wii's established userbase for more than a Wii costs.

From the non-casual crowd, it attempts to be original but the lot of us have been flailing around like idiots every time a good Wii game comes out. Frankly we're exhausted and we just want to sit around and play.

Anyway, the negativity is because computing was all about point-and-click, the Internet is about point-and-laugh. Nelson from the Simpsons is the patron saint of the Internet.

[Bojay1997]

I don't understand all the negativity surrounding the Kinect. For years we've been waiting for a new console and MS has offered us a new 360 model and a cool 360 accessory to breathe new life in the system. If the Kinect does poorly, MS isn't packing up and leaving the industry. If the Kinect succeeds then good for them. Being released so close the the holidays surely won't hurt sales as a $150 new video game thing that isn't a Wii (which MANY households already have) and half the cost of a PS3.

For those people that want one, there are 360+Kinect bundles, standalone sales and a dozen new games at launch. It's cooler that the Wiimote and Move. It's being utilized by the dashboard, video chat, and voice recognition. It's one thing to buy instead of one unit per player. Even for all the faults it has and will have (like not working well with skirts), there were similar problems with the Wii (strap breaking, TV smashing). And on the plus side, it's all software, which means patching such an issue would be quicker and cheaper than physically building new units.

For those people that don't want one. They can buy just a regular 360 (new design) or ignore the launch all together. In no way will the Kinect impact your life. Gear of War 3 will not require it to play (although it would be cool if it did use it for a "casual mode"). You can still use the Xbox dashboard and watch Netflix and send messages. Point and laugh until it sells well enough and years later you pick up one for $100 or when its bundled in with new units. Or when it fails miserably and is price-slashed to $50, like what happened to the HD-DVD drives.

At $150 a pop, MS is making money off every unit sold. They're appealing to an audience that wants to play games in a new way. Be it the Wii's casual crowd, overactive kids, people with arthritis, people that can't grip controllers... Many of whom aren't people who are as likely to be posting online (here) in the first place.

From my personal perspective, my negativity stems from having been very excited about the original rumors and announcement of Natal, only to be seriously disappointed when I actually used Kinect at E3 and at the Microsoft Store. I am also very, very disappointed in the launch game selection and the fact that almost nothing has been announced as coming in the post-launch period that would make it seem like Kinect at least has a bright future ahead. I know I have said this before, but this camera based motion control technology which Microsoft is using is just not accurate enough to replace the controller based technology Wii and Move are using at this point, at least not at a consumer friendly price point. Having said that, I am an early adopter and have it pre-ordered along with the Move, even though I suspect both will meet with very limited success.

On your other point, it actually does impact people who have no interest in it. Microsoft has put a ton of resources into Kinect and that will likely mean fewer A-list titles and a lot less focus on more traditional gamers for at least the next year or two. That has the potential to hurt gamers and potentially surpress the innovative development of new IP. As such, I fully understand and appreciate the negativity a lot of people including myself have towards Kinect and Move.

[TonyTheTiger]

Even if the thing is a disaster, all the doom and gloom isn't justified. The end result will be an expensive peripheral nobody buys until it's tossed in the GameStop bargain bin.

Whenever a company tries something new, daring, innovative, stupid, etc. there's always talk of it hurting gamers. But has anything since the crash ever actually hurt gamers?

There's always talk about harm to gamers in the future tense but is it ever used in the past tense?

[Bojay1997]

Even if the thing is a disaster, all the doom and gloom isn't justified. The end result will be an expensive peripheral nobody buys until it's tossed in the GameStop bargain bin.

Whenever a company tries something new, daring, innovative, stupid, etc. there's always talk of it hurting gamers. But has anything since the crash ever actually hurt gamers?

There's always talk about harm to gamers in the future tense but is it ever used in the past tense?

Sega's collapse as a result of the failure of 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast hurt gamers as it insured that it's risk taking in the US market was far more limited, meaning more mainstream and in my opinion boring games from a company that led the way for many, many years. I think the failure of the Lynx and Sega Game Gear similarly hurt handheld gamers by not providing viable alternatives to Nintendo, essentially allowing Nintendo to use relatively old technology in all of its handheld systems. The problem is, it's hard to prove what might have happened which is probably why you don't hear a lot about harm to gamers in the past tense.

[TonyTheTiger]

Those are all failures, though. Usually when people talk about things hurting gamers it concerns either the possible success or the mere existence of something. I can't think of one instance where something succeeding or merely existing ever hurt gamers.

I suppose you could flip it and say that Nintendo's success with the Game Boy led to its monopolizing the market which resulted in the original GBA having a terrible screen because who was going to complain, right? I think that's kind of a stretch though.

[portnoyd]

The only thing that would "hurt gamers" would be another crash. Being as the crash was caused by untold amounts of shit flowing from every orifice, I don't think we're at risk for that ever again, even with the Wii library as a whole staring us in the face. Too much mainstream money in it as well.

[DonMarco]

I know I have said this before, but this camera based motion control technology which Microsoft is using is just not accurate enough to replace the controller based technology Wii and Move are using at this point, at least not at a consumer friendly price point. Having said that, I am an early adopter and have it pre-ordered along with the Move, even though I suspect both will meet with very limited success.
I've never been impressed with the wiimote. Even when it worked well and felt natural in the gameplay, the simple ergonomics of it always bug me. No PS3 for me so my Move interests are very low (but I am looking to get a system shortly, hopefully before the Demon's Soul's servers go offline).

I'm not going to be a day one adopter this time. I'm most likely to get a Kinect with a new 360 console as a birthday or Xmas present to myself. Whenever the RRoD should be. Should I be blown away by demo units at the mall, I would not be against buying a stand-alone Kinect and a new 360 later on down the road.


On your other point, it actually does impact people who have no interest in it. Microsoft has put a ton of resources into Kinect and that will likely mean fewer A-list titles and a lot less focus on more traditional gamers for at least the next year or two. That has the potential to hurt gamers and potentially surpress the innovative development of new IP. As such, I fully understand and appreciate the negativity a lot of people including myself have towards Kinect and Move.
Outside of their big releases (Halo, Fable, Gears) and exclusives (Deathsmiles, Crackdown) I'm sure MS has enough on it's plate to secure financing for new games. In fact, I'd wager releasing a new accessory like the Kinect actually creates more IPs. New series that are built around the Kinect's capabilities.

You think that there will only be one Kinectimals? No more cute animals out there besides wild cats? You think there will only be one fitness game from Ubisoft if the first one sells well? Nobody at Activision pitching "Air Guitar Hero" to their boss this very instant? The guy standing behind him waiting to pitch "Air Guitar Hero: Rock Ballads vol. 1".

I'm sure there's still plenty of money flowing around for new IP development and XNA contests and Xbox Live games. More to buy exclusivity contracts (such as early Call of Duty DLC) and keep awesome games like Left 4 Dead away from the competition.

[Shingetter]

This might be a little off topic, if so sorry about that.
The only good thing I see out of the whole business is, maybe Microsoft finally put out a console reliable enough for me to stop avoiding buying games for their system. I'm a collector mostly, but damn it, if I want to play some RCA studio II, you better believe the one I'm pulling off the shelf is gonna work. So Move this, Kinect that, I don't care. Spend the time and money making some hardware that works and will continue to work (which hopefully this new 360 will do) instead of reinventing the wheel.

[stonecutter]

My son used his money from his paper route to get the new slim, and he is already saying how he wants to get kinect when released so I am sure it will be in my household as well. So I am keeping an open mind and I won't rain on his parade.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'll never understand people celebrating failure.

In other words,

Lulz

How do they work?

The best answer, I can think of, is that failure is celebration worthy because it is a necessary precondition for success. In order to win, fail must be a possibility. (Insert Life/death or cyclical-nature referent cliche here) Everyone is familiar with failure, some are familiar with success. Failure is universal.

[Gameguy]

I can't think of one instance where something succeeding or merely existing ever hurt gamers.
What about digital distribution? That seems to be catching on. Won't that hurt the used game market and make it harder to collect games in the future?

What about games with DRM?

[kupomogli]

I can't think of one instance where something succeeding or merely existing ever hurt gamers.

Piracy also. Not created by the game companies, but technically allowed due to poor design on the companies half, like Sony making the PSP open source when it was first released.

Piracy is the main reason the Dreamcast went out way earlier than it normally would have and the PSP gets less releases than it would and less games that are released are actually brought over to the US.

Obviously this is all speculation but I'm pretty sure I'm correct. I don't want this to get all off topic, but here's an example of piracy on some AAA Wii, DS, and PSP titles. These are actual numbers taken from a few torrent sites. This was a couple months ago and while Dissidia is the highest in amount pirated, I think that Phantasy Star Portable 2 gets the worst of it considering it's yet to be released outside of Japan and the ratio at which it was pirated is the highest.

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/comparison_chart.jpg