The black sheep in a series that you'll stand up for.

[Drixxel]

Also another game I really enjoy that seems to not be popular in the franchise by fans, Castlevania IV on the Super Nintendo… this game is really amazing and I love the things that you are able to do with the whip, why this has NEVER been implemented in any other Castlevania title is beyond me! CVIV really makes the SNES sound shine with its amazing music, and the graphics aren't too bad, sure they may be a bit on the large side, but the game plays and looks fine!

I don't know, whenever SCIV gets brought up on a forum like this it's met by nearly universal praise and it's not uncommon to be mentioned as a favourite of the franchise. I've only ever heard criticism for the game on a handful of occasions, mainly dealing with a distaste for the "limp whip" mechanics and the less challenging enemy placement compared to previous Castlevanias (as baddies may appear in highly vulnerable places given that you can bring destruction from all directions). It's something of a stretch to call it a black sheep when something like Simon's Quest and the N64 Castlevanias are undisputedly the most popular recipients of series bashing. There are certainly no disagreements from me, though, as to this game's awesomeness.

I would happily defend the following less-than-loved entries in their respective franchises:

- Donkey Kong III
- Dragon's Lair, SNES version (anything beyond the original and part II kind of share black sheep duty, really)
- Metroid 2 (while it would benefit from a remake, what's there on Game Boy is good)

[Malon_Forever]

Ever had that one -supposedly- awful game in a series that you can't help but like, or even love? The one that most people seem to rail on or say is terrible. That weaker entry in the series.

Mine are:

Megaman 6. I hear a lot of people telling me this is the worst nes Megaman, it's too easy, forgettable, or not fun. I disagree. The difficulty hits at a good point (not as hard as some of the others, but I wouldn't say easy either), the graphics are nice for nes, and the powers are actually pretty useful. It even has a fair amount of replay value if you haven't found the additional chips/items. There's some great soundtrack selections to be had. I legitimately like this game.

Castlevania 2. We all know about this one. I hated it back then but, now that I know a few of the 'weird' things and flaws (the infamous crouching for a tornado) I find enjoyment in the rpg aspects and the free-roaming. It's not perfect, but they tried something that used CV gameplay and added new elements. It has some awesome music as well. I think it deserves a bit more play.

Mario Kart: Double Dash. I know people who would not play this game. In retrospect, I think it's better than the Wii version. Again, they tried something new. When you learn the characters, switching around is not a bad mechanic and creates a good 'co-op' mode for 2-4 players. I thought the combat modes involving two teams of two got really fun and competitive. I dunno, I just hear a lot of people not liking it or preferring another MK.


What are yours?

All of this. Those are some of my favorite games.

[kedawa]

- Metroid 2 (while it would benefit from a remake, what's there on Game Boy is good)
Aside from the lack of a map, I've never read a single disparaging word about this game. Most of the time it's mentioned as the next best thing to Super Metroid.

[Drixxel]

Aside from the lack of a map, I've never read a single disparaging word about this game. Most of the time it's mentioned as the next best thing to Super Metroid.

I may be wrong to refer to Metroid 2 as a "black sheep", as it's not the butt of all jokes or anything, but it seems to me to be the least mentioned game of the series and an early divergence in style. It certainly is a touch weird compared to the rest - the ongoing Metroid hunt feels a fair bit different than any other entry. What's the black sheep of the Metroid series if not part 2? Well, maybe Metroid: Other M. Admittedly, it is a fair bit more polarizing and was mentioned earlier in the thread (as was Metroid 2, anyway).

[Rickstilwell1]

Oh yeah, I always felt Virtual Boy Wario Land is the black sheep of the Wario Land series just because of the system it's for. I actually like this game more than the rest of the series, although I haven't played the Wii game yet.

[kedawa]

I may be wrong to refer to Metroid 2 as a "black sheep", as it's not the butt of all jokes or anything, but it seems to me to be the least mentioned game of the series and an early divergence in style. It certainly is a touch weird compared to the rest - the ongoing Metroid hunt feels a fair bit different than any other entry. What's the black sheep of the Metroid series if not part 2? Well, maybe Metroid: Other M. Admittedly, it is a fair bit more polarizing and was mentioned earlier in the thread (as was Metroid 2, anyway).
I'm not sure if Metroid really has a black sheep. Personally, I think if any game deserves that title, it's Fusion.

[aryoshi]

I personally love Mega Man 6 and Castlevania II. Mega Man 6, well, I happen to love every Mega Man game on the NES regardless of a lot of the things people pick on it for. Castlevania II, I find the only reason this game gets put down is a reason I can understand and agree with, the lack of better hints and cryptic, poorly translated dialogue. But once you work around that, it really is a great game, needless to say short, but still great.

As for other black sheep games, I liked Zelda II, Super Mario Bros. 2 (American version), Final Fantasy V (I've actually heard people say that this game doesn't even deserve to call itself a Final Fantasy game, I disagree), I fail to think of any more at this current point. Reading above, I did see Secret of Evermore and I agree with that one. People commonly mistake it as the American sequel to Secret of Mana (which it isn't for we never got an offical sequel to it) so in the mindset that it is, I loved it all the way through, not to mention it introduced me to Jeremy Soule. But I can't really count it since it's a stand-alone game and not part of any series.

[bangtango]

NES Bases Loaded II. Most people mention the original Bases Loaded as the best of the series, but all four have their good and bad points. BL2 has the worst graphics, worst soundtrack (continuous loop of "hell no, we won't go" rhythm) and relatively few pitchers. Also bad was it's ants homerun sequence.

Most people hate BL2's side-view fielding screen, but I think it's an improvement over BL1 and the best in the series. BL1's fielding had a lemmings quality where the player's would start running off the field after every play, and were constantly running around like lemmings. BL2 streamlined their movements while enhancing the simulation quality of the original. BL3 and BL4 reduced the batted ball and basethrowing outcomes.

A lot of people also hate the player biorhythms, but it adds realism of hot streaks and slumps when you're playing through a 162-game season making you evaluate batter lineups for every game. BL4 used a star ratings system that was supposed to improve on the biorhythms, but instead made it so that all you had to do was strike out a few batters the first inning to build your pitcher's stars to 3, then your pitcher would be untouchable the rest of the game. BL3 rudely beeps at you every time you make a mistake according to it's perfect game criteria.

The original took nearly an hour to play because of the lemmings-induced downtime and scoreboard that would display between action. BL2 reduced the game time and is one of the few vintage video baseball games where the ref doesn't yell "safe" if it's obvious the runner reached base in time.

BL2 has good pitching, batting, baserunning and stealing, like the original. BL3 and BL4 made it too easy to strike out computer batters without varying your pitches. Also, BL2 has short 7-letter passwords. It's probably the best game for someone looking for a baseball simulation on the NES (better than Baseball Stars).

The fielding takes some getting used to but I also consider Bases Loaded 2 to be the best of the NES series.

[kupomogli]

Aside from the lack of a map, I've never read a single disparaging word about this game. Most of the time it's mentioned as the next best thing to Super Metroid.


I'm not sure if Metroid really has a black sheep. Personally, I think if any game deserves that title, it's Fusion.

I really enjoyed Fusion. I think Metroid 2 is the worst in the series. I've originally went through and beaten Metroid 2, but it was when I was younger and one of my only Gameboy games which is the reason why I did so. The game just feels so lifeless and boring. I even like the original NES version better, and while I've never beaten the NES version because of the difficulty, it just felt fun going through.

[Casati]

The fielding takes some getting used to but I also consider Bases Loaded 2 to be the best of the NES series.

My Bases Loaded 2 scores can vary widely between pitchers duels and high scoring games, so it just seems to have the right balance. The only obvious gameplay weakness is it's too easy to pick off computer base stealers by throwing to 1st base then trapping, but I usually avoid doing that. The fielding is challenging but most balls are catchable, it's just the players are quite small.

[bangtango]

My Bases Loaded 2 scores can vary widely between pitchers duels and high scoring games, so it just seems to have the right balance. The only obvious gameplay weakness is it's too easy to pick off computer base stealers by throwing to 1st base then trapping, but I usually avoid doing that. The fielding is challenging but most balls are catchable, it's just the players are quite small.

For the time period, the biorhythm thing was very inventive and ahead of its time. A lot of baseball games in recent years use a similar format for hot and cold. Nobody ever gives the game credit for it, though. I would expect you'd also agree with that.

I also liked the rosters/teams the best in #2. Other than the inclusion of "Paste" and the whole beanball scene from the original game, I see no reason to recommend the first Bases Loaded over the second.

[crazyjackcsa]

NHL 95 on The Genesis. At the time it was decried as a step back from 94, but I always liked it.

[Aussie2B]

If any game deserves to be the Metroid black sheep, it's Other M. What a corny, ridiculous plot, and what a waste of a good system and nice graphics on a game that's so stupidly restrictive. It's everything that a Metroid game shouldn't be. Fusion was one step in that wrong direction, but Other M is worst yet.

Metroid II, on the other hand, is a really good game, but, yeah, I have seen a lot of disparaging comments on it in recent years. Once stuff like the GBA and DS came out, kids look back on Metroid II and call it "unplayable" because it's black and white and doesn't have a map. I see a lot of interest in a remake of it, but those same people refuse to play it in its current state.

It can be a confusing game, but if you actually pay attention, it's actually more straightforward than many of the other Metroid games, given the limitations that the lowering acid/lava/water/whatever places on you. You just tackle one area at a time, and I'd say they have pretty interesting design. Amazing atmosphere too. Truly the scariest Metroid game. If you don't jump out of your seat a little when a Metroid appears, then you're just not playing the same game.

[kupomogli]

Fusion was one step in that wrong direction

This is really the only thing I didn't like about Fusion, it wasn't until the end that you were actually able to explore. You were on a set path and you couldn't go anywhere except where you were supposed to. Then at the end once you could explore, you were forced to listen to that annoying music rather than the music change based on each area like the rest of the game. But regardless, extremely fun going through the game even with the limitations.

But in the same sense, you couldn't explore on Metroid 2. You go down each level, go to the right, go on the set pathway, kill all the Metroids in the area, the lava lowers, you go down and left into that section, kill all the Metroids, the lava lowers, go right, etc, repeat. The areas had a pretty set path exploration wasn't even there. Also, wasn't Metroid 2 one of the few games on the Super Gameboy that had its own specific color combo so it can be played in color. So if there were people who wished to play the game in color, then it could be done.

[Aussie2B]

It was more straightforward, but the key difference between Metroid II and Fusion is that you weren't TOLD where to go. And you didn't have a map either. You had to make mental note of where it looked like you could go after another earthquake. And once you got into an area, many of them were pretty open, especially after you got the spider ball and could roll around all over the place. I think it struck that perfect balance where it's doable without a map but not so restrictive that you don't even have to use your brain.

As for the people who want a remake, I think they want both color and extra detail in order to make the rooms more distinctive from one another because they can't be assed to put the effort into figuring out the areas.

[XYXZYZ]

I love the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles NES game. The one everyone constantly complains about because they play it and discover that they suck at video games. I find it much more entertaining than those simple beat-em up clones that came after it. And I do like the arcade game, but the port not so much.

[NBaco]

Honestly, I never heard any complaints about the first TMNT game on NES until AVGN made a video about it. Then all of a sudden everyone hated it.

[Patney]

I'm not sure if Metroid really has a black sheep. Personally, I think if any game deserves that title, it's Fusion.

Ummm... Other M anyone? The only people who (somehow) enjoyed that game seems to be people who hasn't played any other Metroids.

[Drixxel]

Also, wasn't Metroid 2 one of the few games on the Super Gameboy that had its own specific color combo so it can be played in color. So if there were people who wished to play the game in color, then it could be done.

Regrettably, there's no souped up SGB mode for Metroid 2. This came up in a thread not too long ago, if I recall, but any colourized screenshots of Metroid 2 used in the SGB marketing (on the front of the box, even) are not referencing an actual colourized mode. It defaults to a really ugly preset that tries to recreate the Samus chozo suit colours at the expense of the environment. Why a preset was decided on that didn't make for a black backdrop is beyond me.


Honestly, I never heard any complaints about the first TMNT game on NES until AVGN made a video about it. Then all of a sudden everyone hated it.

Definitely. The AVGN is certainly an influential guy as far as encouraging negative hindsight on games that were deemed otherwise "okay" at worst. The true black sheep of the NES TMNT games is, in my opinion, TMNT: Tournament Fighters, and that's a game I honestly kind of dig.

[kupomogli]

Honestly, I never heard any complaints about the first TMNT game on NES until AVGN made a video about it. Then all of a sudden everyone hated it.

Also the first time I've heard people complain about Castlevania 2, Fester's Quest, and Zelda 2 as well. Gaming wasn't nearly as popular then so more than likely these people never played the games until they saw James' videos.

Many games are praised even though people have never played them, as well as many games are hated on even though people haven't played them. While there are many reasons for such, one of the reasons is word of mouth. Final Fantasy 7, Zelda 2, Rondo of Blood, Duke Nukem Forever, etc. Using Rondo of Blood as an example, what happens when they hear everyone ranting about how amazing of a game it is. They might re-iterate what they've heard despite never playing the game. Then once DXC comes out and these people finally play the game, they complain because the game is too hard(and by hard I mean easy but they're noobs) then change their opinions.

Basically, everyone jumping on the bandwagon, following anothers opinion like sheep, etc. I wish I could think of a single word to describe it, but you get the idea.

[Garry Silljo]

Ummm... Other M anyone? The only people who (somehow) enjoyed that game seems to be people who hasn't played any other Metroids.

I enjoyed it, and I've played all the non portable Metroid games. I really don't know what all the crying was about.

[NBaco]

Regrettably, there's no souped up SGB mode for Metroid 2. This came up in a thread not too long ago, if I recall, but any colourized screenshots of Metroid 2 used in the SGB marketing (on the front of the box, even) are not referencing an actual colourized mode. It defaults to a really ugly preset that tries to recreate the Samus chozo suit colours at the expense of the environment. Why a preset was decided on that didn't make for a black backdrop is beyond me.



Definitely. The AVGN is certainly an influential guy as far as encouraging negative hindsight on games that were deemed otherwise "okay" at worst. The true black sheep of the NES TMNT games is, in my opinion, TMNT: Tournament Fighters, and that's a game I honestly kind of dig.


Also the first time I've heard people complain about Castlevania 2, Fester's Quest, and Zelda 2 as well. Gaming wasn't nearly as popular then so more than likely these people never played the games until they saw James' videos.

Many games are praised even though people have never played them, as well as many games are hated on even though people haven't played them. While there are many reasons for such, one of the reasons is word of mouth. Final Fantasy 7, Zelda 2, Rondo of Blood, Duke Nukem Forever, etc. Using Rondo of Blood as an example, what happens when they hear everyone ranting about how amazing of a game it is. They might re-iterate what they've heard despite never playing the game. Then once DXC comes out and these people finally play the game, they complain because the game is too hard(and by hard I mean easy but they're noobs) then change their opinions.

Basically, everyone jumping on the bandwagon, following anothers opinion like sheep, etc. I wish I could think of a single word to describe it, but you get the idea.

I watch (and like) many of AVGNs videos, but as you guys mentioned, he ends up influencing people far too much. A good example being a friend of mine who annoys the crap out of me with the way he regurgitates everything James Rolf/AVGN says and hates on every game that AVGN has ever reviewed negatively. This includes Top Gun, Festers Quest, TMNT, Godzilla, Castlevania 64, Castlevania 2 and Street Fighter 2010. It's annoying because I know he's never played any of these games, but I never say anything to him because I figure it's not worth wasting my breath. Watching a video and actually playing the game are two different things.

Far as Other M goes, that game got some pretty wide-spread hate mostly because it depicted Samus more personally, and I think most people already had her personality set in their minds. It seems the fanbase considered Samus a cold-hearted killer, ignoring the fact that both the intro and the manual for Super Metroid made it clear that Samus felt sorry for the baby metroid. *opens up the manual* "Even this hardened bounty hunter could not destroy the larva". Now, I never played Metroid Other M, so I'm just trying to rationalize the hate it gets. As someone who posts on Gamefaqs, I can pretty much tell you for a fact that the way Samus was portrayed has a lot to do with the hate the game itself got. If you need more evidence, read some of the reviews it gets on Amazon.com. One was titled "Metroid Other M: A Lifetime Original Movie" just to give you an idea of what to expect.

[Aussie2B]

That Lifetime movie comparison is apt. It may seem petty to complain about how Samus is portrayed, but that's because that's all the game really is. The gameplay system is completely squandered. The whole game just feels like endless story sequences and waiting to be allowed to use your abilities. And there's a huge range between cold-hearted killer and what we got. She's supposed to be a normal, empathetic person, yes, but Other M turned her into an overemotional drama queen wimp that only does what she's told. That could all be ignored if there was awesome gameplay outside of that, but the gameplay is centered around it too. The whole sense of real exploration, the cornerstone of Metroid games, is lost. Everything about the game is limiting and restrictive. They may as well have made the whole game completely linear with no ability to backtrack.

[kedawa]

TMNT was always hated, especially after the arcade game got ported. In fact, this thread is the first place I've ever read any praise for the game. Without the license, it's just another stupidly frustrating platformer.
Now, Fall of the Foot Clan, that's a good TMNT game.

I haven't played Other M, but from what I gather, the story just doesn't belong in a Metroid game, and Samus is not a very strong character in it. I've heard conflicting things about the actual gameplay.

[TonyTheTiger]

Also the first time I've heard people complain about Castlevania 2, Fester's Quest, and Zelda 2 as well. Gaming wasn't nearly as popular then so more than likely these people never played the games until they saw James' videos.

How old do you think AVGN actually is? We're not talking the dark ages here. All of those games had gotten their share years before James Rolfe made his videos.

[kupomogli]

How old do you think AVGN actually is? We're not talking the dark ages here. All of those games had gotten their share years before James Rolfe made his videos.

I'm aware of that, but before AVGN, even when I was on the internet, I never heard of people bashing on Zelda 2, CV2, Fester's Quest, TMNT, etc. It wasn't until James' videos that bashing these games not only became common, but became popular to do so. Want to talk about a shitty game? Let's not talk about a legitimate crap game, let's spew out bs like "Castlevania 2 is the worst game I've ever played" or something equally as stupid. If you don't think it's true, then Google it.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm surprised you've had that experience, or rather lack thereof. Negativity about all those games was pretty common since the dawn of emulation and the Funco Land era when everybody started re-living the NES days and playing catch up on all the ones they missed. TMNT in particular was notorious for "That fucking water level!"

I remember Zelda II hate back during Ocarina of Time since everybody was on a Zelda high and wanted to catch up on the old ones.

[bangtango]

I'm surprised you've had that experience, or rather lack thereof. Negativity about all those games was pretty common since the dawn of emulation and the Funco Land era when everybody started re-living the NES days and playing catch up on all the ones they missed. TMNT in particular was notorious for "That fucking water level!"

I remember Zelda II hate back during Ocarina of Time since everybody was on a Zelda high and wanted to catch up on the old ones.

Agree with you at least halfway. I'm 31 and know that the general dislike of Zelda II dates back to the 1990's, so it was well before AVGN.

However, I will disagree with anyone who says it dates back to the first couple of years that Zelda II was on store shelves.

Same thing with Simon's Quest. Especially in monthly publications. Every magazine around at the time remarked how Castlevania III was a refreshing return to the roots of the series when compared to Simon's Quest.

Most monthly magazines (other than Nintendo Power) have also never been that kind to Zelda II, at least not since the early 1990's.

It would take multiple hands to count the less than flattering remarks I've read about Zelda II in EGM, Game Informer, Next Gen, etc. during the 1990's and early 2000's.

[kupomogli]

"That fucking water level!"

And also the foot base level, yes. But I've never heard the hate they're getting now. Infact, everyone that I knew hated the foot level and some hated the dam but still thought the game itself was good. I've always thought the dam level, even back then, was the easiest part in the game but that's personal opinion.

But now it's not just criticism on a certain level, etc. It's "insert game here" is the worst game ever made" or "insert game here" is one of the worst games ever made." The amount of hate the games are getting now are just from people who have never played the games and just watched a review.


I remember Zelda II hate back during Ocarina of Time since everybody was on a Zelda high and wanted to catch up on the old ones.

Unfortunately I can't really comment on Zelda fans playing catch up. Most of my friends owned a PSX only, and those that did own a N64 usually only played Goldeneye/Perfect Dark or wrestling games(WCW/NWO vs the World, then Revenge, then Wrestlemania 2000) whenever others were over.

*edit*

And as bangtango commented, didn't remember any of the magazine hate. I guess it could also be coincidence that my friends and I all happened to like the games.

[Aussie2B]

I'm a firm believer in the sheep that take the word of the AVGN and his ilk as gospel, without ever playing the games. Zelda II and Castlevania II criticisms have definitely increased tenfold since the popularity of those types of videos began, and don't get me started on 14-year-old kids ranting about E.T. being the worst game ever made when they've never even seen an Atari. This phenomenon isn't new, though. The mindless flock was worshiping Seanbaby just as much 10+ years ago, and you couldn't go to any classic gaming forum without people saying that Deadly Towers is the worst NES game ever made. Now that Seanbaby is old news, nobody even mentions Deadly Towers anymore.

But in the case of TMNT and Fester's Quest, I definitely saw criticisms of those before AVGN and the like. I'd say Fester's Quest deserves it, since people compare it to the far superior Blaster Master. TMNT is a good game, though, and just gets ragged on by chumps that have conniptions over the dam level, even though practically every gamer I know in person can beat that stage with ease. A lot of gamers, especially those approaching old games these days with no patience, are just sissies. They'll call a game bad just because it's too hard for them when it would only take a moderate amount of practice. They say the dam level is "impossible", they say the same for the level 3 bike stage in Battletoads, etc. Gimme a break.

[Gameguy]

I watch (and like) many of AVGNs videos, but as you guys mentioned, he ends up influencing people far too much. A good example being a friend of mine who annoys the crap out of me with the way he regurgitates everything James Rolf/AVGN says and hates on every game that AVGN has ever reviewed negatively. This includes Top Gun, Festers Quest, TMNT, Godzilla, Castlevania 64, Castlevania 2 and Street Fighter 2010.
I've played most of those games before watching any of the AVGN videos and I don't really like them that much, the only one I haven't played is Castlevania 64. They may not be the worst games ever, but I have dozens of games I'd rather play instead so I see no reason to play those ones. Should I play them just to say I can get through them if I try hard enough? I have better things to do with my time.

Even when he started out he just reviewed games from his childhood that he didn't like, he didn't even plan on posting the early reviews anywhere and just did them for fun. It's not like he worked hard on finding things that were bad about them, he just talked about what he personally hated with them. Some of the later reviews might be stretching it but the early ones were pretty straight forward.

[kedawa]

I'm a firm believer in the sheep that take the word of the AVGN and his ilk as gospel, without ever playing the games. Zelda II and Castlevania II criticisms have definitely increased tenfold since the popularity of those types of videos began, and don't get me started on 14-year-old kids ranting about E.T. being the worst game ever made when they've never even seen an Atari. This phenomenon isn't new, though. The mindless flock was worshiping Seanbaby just as much 10+ years ago, and you couldn't go to any classic gaming forum without people saying that Deadly Towers is the worst NES game ever made. Now that Seanbaby is old news, nobody even mentions Deadly Towers anymore.

But in the case of TMNT and Fester's Quest, I definitely saw criticisms of those before AVGN and the like. I'd say Fester's Quest deserves it, since people compare it to the far superior Blaster Master. TMNT is a good game, though, and just gets ragged on by chumps that have conniptions over the dam level, even though practically every gamer I know in person can beat that stage with ease. A lot of gamers, especially those approaching old games these days with no patience, are just sissies. They'll call a game bad just because it's too hard for them when it would only take a moderate amount of practice. They say the dam level is "impossible", they say the same for the level 3 bike stage in Battletoads, etc. Gimme a break.
Swing your dick around a little more, why don't you?
People hate TMNT because it's needlessly frustrating and not all that fun. It's not a difficult game overall, but there are parts where people get stuck because the difficulty suddenly ramps up from cake walk to completely unforgiving due to poor design.

[Aussie2B]

I don't have a dick to swing. :P

It's quite the opposite actually. I don't think I'm that great of a player, so if people bitch endlessly about a part that didn't take me that much effort to master, then I know they're just being lazy. TMNT is a challenging game, but the dam isn't the height of it. In fact, the dam is forgiving enough. You can take some hits, you just have to practice enough to not get hit constantly.

And even if a game is kicking my butt, I'm not one to automatically think "hard = bad". Not every game out there needs to be at the same difficulty level. It would sucks if they were. Some games are a bit too easy, but they're good if you want something relaxing. Others are moderate, and some are just crazy, like the Ghosts 'n' Goblins series, but are still great games nonetheless.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think difficulty alone as a measuring stick is shortsighted. Whether something is easy or hard says nothing of it's fundamental design. Bad design isn't limited to being either easy or hard. So it's not especially prudent to use "it's not that hard" to imply "it's well-designed" any more than using "it's too hard/easy" to imply "it's poorly designed." They're two completely separate scales.

Something could technically be only moderately difficult but at the same time be far less worth putting effort into simply because it's badly conceived. Meanwhile something could be bitch hard but worth revisiting over and over again because it's beautifully crafted.

When it comes to game difficulty, there's a difference between offering a challenge and wasting the player's time. Even very easy things can be guilty of the latter. And despite being easy the fact that they're a waste of time makes them not worth revisiting.

[nebrazca78]

Phantasy Star III- It's not on par with the games before it, or the final one if the storyline after it, but it's not nearly as bad as some make it out to be. The music sounds like it's a bit too loud, the enemy designs and their "animation" are silly at times, and it really has a loose connection to the main storyline, but the story itself is fine, the gameplay's good, the musical compositions are done well, and it has some nice twists over the generic RPG formulas of the time (like playing through three generations in the game).

Black sheep? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's not worth playing.

This is my pick too.

.

[bangtango]

The mindless flock was worshiping Seanbaby just as much 10+ years ago, and you couldn't go to any classic gaming forum without people saying that Deadly Towers is the worst NES game ever made. Now that Seanbaby is old news, nobody even mentions Deadly Towers anymore.

It is one mere example but there were people out there who thought Deadly Towers was one of the worst games in the NES library long before Seanbaby showed up.

There was a popular series of tip books way back in the day, more than likely How To Win At Nintendo Games or something along those lines, and in it the writer gave reviews on all of the games in addition to tips and strategies. Whatever book it was did say that Deadly Towers was one of the worst games on the NES.

This was back in the late 80's.

[Aussie2B]

Oh, no doubt. Deadly Towers is a flawed game and deserves some level of criticism. It's just that, in that time period, it was widely regarded as unequivocally THE worst NES game, and it's painfully obvious that Seanbaby was the cause of that view. Most people giving it that title probably had never even played it. I've played a lot of shitty NES games, and there are definitely plenty that are less playable than Deadly Towers. I could see a stray person here and there regarding it as the worst, but there's no way that so many people were independently coming to that conclusion, not in the presence of so many games that look, sound, control, and play worse.

[Brianvgplayer]

Pac-Man 2600 is one that comes up a lot, but I like it. It doesn't hold up compared to other versions of Pac-Man, but it's still a pretty good game in its own right.



TMNT was always hated, especially after the arcade game got ported. In fact, this thread is the first place I've ever read any praise for the game. Without the license, it's just another stupidly frustrating platformer.
Now, Fall of the Foot Clan, that's a good TMNT game

I didn't remember it being hated when I was younger, but that was also before the internet. I like the game, myself, though it does get frustrating with harder enemies appearing at times. However, so far, I think I like the game it as designed after, Getsu Fuuma Den, much better. I like Fall of the Foot Clan too.

[old man]

I think negativity has become really rampant in the past ten years or more. Actually I think it started in the 90's when the playstation came out and you had a ton of non gamers suddenly take up the controller because it was a cool thing all their friends were doing. Honestly, I don't understand why so many people who don't like video games keep playing them.

[Emperor Megas]

Mario Kart: Double Dash. is actually my favorite of the series. I really enjoyed the tag team dynamic.

Final Fantasy X2 is another one I enjoyed, though I didn't play it through very far, admittedly (not for a lack of interest).

Fantasy Zone: The Maze is one of my all time favorite games. My oldest friend from 5th grade and I still play it, competitively, whenever we get together.

Zillion II: The Triformation is another SMS favorite of mine. I don't know many people who enjoy this game, especially those who've played the original, but I enjoy the simple game play and ridiculously short length.

Alex Kidd: High Tech World is a game I'm convinced I'm the only person who enjoys it. Well, besides maybe the programmers...maybe. I never bothered ending it, and I've only played it a few times, but I enjoyed the quirkiness of it and appreciated how they continued to mix up the Alex Kidd formula.

Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars, same thing.

Street Fighter, the original arcade game (and the Turbo CD port, Fighting Street). My friends all loved this game growing up. I remember the first time I saw it, with it's 2 huge pressure sensitive buttons before the 6 button conversion. It can't compare to any of the sequels of course in terms of game play (or anything else, really), by it's still an old favorite of mine, and it always will be.

[aryoshi]

On the topic of Zelda II, I actually recall that Zelda II had very positive reception during the time it had first come out before A Link to the Past, at least of what I've researched. For example, in the Nintendo Power magazines it was a fairly high rating in their "top" charts. Also, thinking about it, it was only the second in the series and there was no true set style of any Zelda game yet, so people accepted the variety an experiment. I don't think it was until after A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening that people started to pick on Zelda II, but we have to remember, it was an experimental title and they didn't know what they were going to do with Zelda quite yet.


Oh, no doubt. Deadly Towers is a flawed game and deserves some level of criticism. It's just that, in that time period, it was widely regarded as unequivocally THE worst NES game, and it's painfully obvious that Seanbaby was the cause of that view. Most people giving it that title probably had never even played it. I've played a lot of shitty NES games, and there are definitely plenty that are less playable than Deadly Towers. I could see a stray person here and there regarding it as the worst, but there's no way that so many people were independently coming to that conclusion, not in the presence of so many games that look, sound, control, and play worse.

I discovered Action 52 completely on my own years ago (I used to help run an emulation site a long time ago) and I was curious, played it, and I found that it's the worst game I've ever played. I've played some bad games in my life, many in fact, but I always come back to Action 52 being the worst for me. Most "terrible" games are somewhat playable; E.T. is playable to a point once you know what to do. When I play it now, it seems like any other Atari game to me. Superman 64, while pretty crappy, still can be beaten. Big Rigs, it's hard to take it seriously so I come to it for comedic reasons, it's almost like they made it that way on purpose. But, Action 52 is really the worst I've played. They tried to take it seriously and tried to make all of these plans for The Cheetahmen but playing it, it's obvious they wouldn't have come 5 miles from what they were aiming for. Deadly Towers is a mediocre game at worst to me.

[nouserever]

dick tracy. its not in a series but i think its a good game.

[bangtango]

Oh, no doubt. Deadly Towers is a flawed game and deserves some level of criticism. It's just that, in that time period, it was widely regarded as unequivocally THE worst NES game, and it's painfully obvious that Seanbaby was the cause of that view. Most people giving it that title probably had never even played it. I've played a lot of shitty NES games, and there are definitely plenty that are less playable than Deadly Towers. I could see a stray person here and there regarding it as the worst, but there's no way that so many people were independently coming to that conclusion, not in the presence of so many games that look, sound, control, and play worse.

Without the cheap deaths and the penchant for your character to take too much damage from enemies, I might have enjoyed Deadly Towers.

Growing up, I always thought Hydlide was the worst NES game I'd ever played personally. My father rented it for me one night sometime in the late 80's or so. Held that opinion about Hydlide until the late 90's or 2000's. Athena was a close second. Deadly Towers was third.

However, I've since had the chance to play many more NES games which helped to take Hydlide, Deadly Towers and Athena off that list.

My vote for the worst NES game today is King Neptune from Color Dreams. Deathbots is second. Never played Action 52.