The black sheep in a series that you'll stand up for. [Archive]

burn_654

08-26-2011, 12:51 PM

Ever had that one -supposedly- awful game in a series that you can't help but like, or even love? The one that most people seem to rail on or say is terrible. That weaker entry in the series.

Mine are:

Megaman 6. I hear a lot of people telling me this is the worst nes Megaman, it's too easy, forgettable, or not fun. I disagree. The difficulty hits at a good point (not as hard as some of the others, but I wouldn't say easy either), the graphics are nice for nes, and the powers are actually pretty useful. It even has a fair amount of replay value if you haven't found the additional chips/items. There's some great soundtrack selections to be had. I legitimately like this game.

Castlevania 2. We all know about this one. I hated it back then but, now that I know a few of the 'weird' things and flaws (the infamous crouching for a tornado) I find enjoyment in the rpg aspects and the free-roaming. It's not perfect, but they tried something that used CV gameplay and added new elements. It has some awesome music as well. I think it deserves a bit more play.

Mario Kart: Double Dash. I know people who would not play this game. In retrospect, I think it's better than the Wii version. Again, they tried something new. When you learn the characters, switching around is not a bad mechanic and creates a good 'co-op' mode for 2-4 players. I thought the combat modes involving two teams of two got really fun and competitive. I dunno, I just hear a lot of people not liking it or preferring another MK.

What are yours?

skaar

08-26-2011, 12:53 PM

I'm going to say Zelda II and then duck out of this one, because I don't think we need to go over that one again.

buzz_n64

08-26-2011, 12:58 PM

Super Mario Bros. 2: Yes, it was originally Doki Doki Panic, and not a Mario game, but it become a Mario game. Made by the creator of Mario, this title wasn't too far off of the Mario formula at the time. Every game in the series had been different up to then. Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. All different styles. Super Mario Bros. 3 finally set the Super Mario. style into place in 1990. I find Super Mario Bros. 2 to be the best Mario game for the NES in my opinion.

Swamperon

08-26-2011, 12:58 PM

I was going to say Sonic and the Secret Rings but Sonic 2006 is clearly the black sheep. And that game is indefensible. I also defend Sonic Shuffle usually.

PSO III is usually ignored but it's great for a card game. OST is awesome to boot.

Tempest

08-26-2011, 01:01 PM

NBaco

08-26-2011, 01:27 PM

Blitzwing256

08-26-2011, 01:38 PM

Final fantasy 8 is number one on my list (i've gone so far as to have a squall costume + lifesized gunblade replica)

also super hydlide and super pitfall I'll stand behind 100%

bangtango

08-26-2011, 01:39 PM

Megaman 6. I hear a lot of people telling me this is the worst nes Megaman, it's too easy, forgettable, or not fun. I disagree. The difficulty hits at a good point (not as hard as some of the others, but I wouldn't say easy either), the graphics are nice for nes, and the powers are actually pretty useful. It even has a fair amount of replay value if you haven't found the additional chips/items. There's some great soundtrack selections to be had. I legitimately like this game.

In performance, there is nothing wrong with Mega Man 6 for NES.

At the time of release, though, wasn't Capcom running some contest through Nintendo Power asking fans to help name the robots for the game?

Capcom took some heat at the time for appearing as if they had run out of ideas and were choosing names of robots for the Mega Man series out of a hat.

After all, they did reuse "Air Man" (as Wind Man) and created some robot named "Yamato Man" for this particular sequel, right?

I read a review for Mega Man 6 during this time period that sarcastically suggested robot names such as "Repair Man", "Minute Man", "Elephant Man", "Ice Cream Man", "Mail Man," etc. for the next Mega Man game.

The same review also said that Capcom would have used "Spider Man", "Bat Man", "Super Man", etc. for an NES Mega Man game if they had any confidence in themselves being able to get away with it without being sued.

kafa111

08-26-2011, 01:59 PM

any sonic game dreamcast and before i will defend :D (pshh some people dont like sonic shuffle, or Sonic adventure 2)
Zelda II, and Windwaker
thats all i can think of :|

burn_654

08-26-2011, 02:44 PM

Capcom took some heat at the time for appearing as if they had run out of ideas and were choosing names of robots for the Mega Man series out of a hat.

Well, that's a common complaint with Mega Man. I could trace noting that kind of thing as far back as...Hard Man...Dust Man, and so on. Even more recently, Sheep Man. Although I appreciate Sheep Man because of the pun. (He's an electric sheep...a pun on Phillip K. Dick's 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' if I'm not mistaken.)

I at least give MM6 a little credit for making the robot designs and levels have connections to real-world countries. Generalized yes, but it works ok with the 'Worldwide Competition' story.

edit: wrong author.

LaughingMAN.S9

08-26-2011, 03:13 PM

Snapple

08-26-2011, 03:19 PM

If Mario 2 counts as a black sheep, then that. But who honestly hates that game? Any classic gamer putting down Mario 2 needs to reco'nize.

Satoshi_Matrix

08-26-2011, 03:29 PM

Yeah, but which one? There's a big difference between Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Bros. USA.

Rickstilwell1

08-26-2011, 03:55 PM

Yeah, but which one? There's a big difference between Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Bros. USA.

I'll defend both games because both are good. I prefer 2j over Mario 1 anyday. Mario 1 just became too easy for me so 2j actually is fun because it matches my skill level better.

Tempest

08-26-2011, 03:59 PM

any sonic game dreamcast and before i will defend :D (pshh some people dont like sonic shuffle, or Sonic adventure 2)
Zelda II, and Windwaker
thats all i can think of :|
I don't like Sonic Shuffle because the computer CHEATS! Makes the game no fun unless you have a bunch of friends who are willing to play.

Tempest

Steven

08-26-2011, 04:00 PM

-Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
Often gets bashed. But I quite like it and think it does its job well as a starter kit RPG. It was even advertised as such. Game has great music, decent visuals (I like how enemies' animation change as they weaken), and a fast-paced story. Very ideal for 1st time RPG'ers who may be a bit intimidated by the menus and whatnot

-Final Fight 3
I've seen some bash this game, but I think it's actually the best of the FF games on SNES. It does play quite well, IMO. It just doesn't get enough credit

-Mega Man 7
I'm shocked to have read all the complaints of this game over the past couple years. I thought it was really cool that Capcom brought back the original MegaMan on SNES even when X already launched. It was a welcomed sight from where I sit, and I just really enjoyed MM7. Moreso than most people it'd seem. I'll always defend it though

Scissors

08-26-2011, 05:16 PM

Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter seems to be the least liked game in the series, but it is my favorite. It has nice graphics and sound, a unique battle system, and a less generic story than the other BoF games. Most people complain it's too hard, but I think it's pretty well balanced. My only gripe is that you have to replay the game multiple times to see all the story sequences and access all the areas.

also super hydlide and super pitfall I'll stand behind 100%

I thought that Super Hydlide was the most liked game in the series. People usually criticize Hydlide and Virtual Hydlide.

old man

08-26-2011, 05:58 PM

Castlevania: Dracula X - Yea, it's no match for the TGCD game, but taken on it's own merrits it's not a bad game at all.

Metroid 2 - It seems like many people don't like this one, but, again, it's not that bad when you stop expecting it to be something else. Really wish this one had gotten a zero mission style remake.

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island - I don't know why this one gets ragged on so much, but it seems like a number of people love to hate this one. As a nintendo game it really isn't that hard either, unless your trying to max out the levels. It really isn't that hard to keep a hold on baby mario.

I'll second Wind Waker as well. People got mad because it became cartoony, but IMO it's the best zelda since a link to the past, and link's awakening.

spongerob

08-26-2011, 06:58 PM

Zelda II, FFVIII, LoZ The Wind Waker, Final Fantasy X (not so much a black sheep, just hated on blindly), Silent Hill 4, SMB 2.

frogofdeath

08-26-2011, 07:04 PM

I'll second Double Dash. Playing bob-omb blast (or whatever it is named) on flat, retro Mario map is some of the most fun I've ever had playing Mario Kart.

Bloodreign

08-26-2011, 07:28 PM

Gradius IV, it gets dogged for not being original, and a step down from Gradius Gaiden on the PSX, but it's still Gradius, it's still hard as nails, and it's still fun.

Boltorano

08-26-2011, 07:37 PM

It's only ever been on "the Internets" that I've heard dislike for Double Dash. Personally, I loved it. Everybody I knew who played it loved it. It's my personal favorite out of the ones I've played (original, 64, DD, DS) and felt it was a marked improvement over Mario Kart 64, which is my least favorite.

I just don't understand where all the hate comes from. Although, I would be perfectly fine if I didn't have to hear the words "Hi, I'm Daisy!" again for the rest of my life.

The Coop

08-26-2011, 08:18 PM

Phantasy Star III- It's not on par with the games before it, or the final one if the storyline after it, but it's not nearly as bad as some make it out to be. The music sounds like it's a bit too loud, the enemy designs and their "animation" are silly at times, and it really has a loose connection to the main storyline, but the story itself is fine, the gameplay's good, the musical compositions are done well, and it has some nice twists over the generic RPG formulas of the time (like playing through three generations in the game).

Black sheep? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's not worth playing.

kupomogli

08-26-2011, 08:21 PM

Mega Man 6, Zelda 2, Castlevania 2, Super Mario Bros. 2, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, and Final Fantasy 8.

I like these games.

Here are some other games that I like which people generally dislike because differences in the game compared to the rest of series.

Final Fantasy 2. The most common complaint on FF2 is that you have to attack yourself to gain stats, which you can, but really not required as the game is managable without doing so, especially the GBA version where your weapon skills are increased much quicker. FF3 on the other hand is garbage.

Secret of Evermore. Not really in the Seiken Densetsu series but it's obvious it was named as such because of Secret of Mana. Basically an identifier because of similar gameplay. I like Secret of Evermore far better than the game it was based on. They fixed a number of annoying flaws found on Secret of Mana, yet because it was developed by Squaresoft USA and it wasn't Secret of Mana, it frequently gets bashed. The only bad thing about the game is that it's not multiplayer(unless you use a romhack.)

Castlevania Circle of the Moon. Aside from CV2, Circle of the Moon is my favorite exploration CV. It's a new style CV title but it stays true to the older games by having a balanced difficulty throughout the game, and while there are no death pits, there's also a good amount of platforming required. If you finish the game on the standard mode, there are four extras that you can play through, Thief mode being similar to SotN's luck mode with lower stats and gains in every aspect except for luck.

Castlevania Adventure, Legends, Castlevania 64/LoD, Castlevania Lament of Innocence, Devil May Cry 2, Strider NES, Dirge of Cerberus FF7, etc.

Not sure if you'd call FF10-2 a black sheep, but the game is much better than FF10. Great game.

spongerob

08-26-2011, 08:27 PM

Not sure if you'd call FF10-2 a black sheep, but the game is much better than FF10. Great game.

You could hold a needler to my head and I wouldn't agree with that. It's a fun game but FFX itself to me is underrated.

I'll always have good things to say about MGS2 even though everyone seemed to hate it. The problem was with us, not the game.

djshok

08-26-2011, 09:38 PM

I'll say Bare Knuckle III, everyone is so in love with Streets of Rage 2 and won't admit that BKIII is better. Well fuck it all, I'm standing up for it, always have. Though the American SOR3 sucked, but the Japanese version is way awesome. And there's a fan translation patch for it now, so really there's no excuse to not love this game. It does everything that part 2 did it, but it does it better.

i also want to throw sonic spinball into the pot, i liked it, maybe it gets shitty towards the end i dont know, but i remember liking it alot and being confused to why everyone else was shitting on it back in the day

I'll second that one too, if for nothing else than the awesome music. I used to really hate that game as a kid, but in recent months I've developed a whole new appreciation for it.

Smashed Brother

08-26-2011, 09:58 PM

I'm gonna have to third (or fourf) the vote on Wind Waker! This is my favorite game in the Zelda series by far and probably my second favorite GC game (right behind Smash Bros Melee)!

retroguy

08-26-2011, 10:07 PM

Super Mario Sunshine

Everyone bashes this game for not being as good as Mario 64, but I actually think it's better. It has better and more creative level design and is much more challenging (the FLUDDless levels in particular give Super Mario Bros. 2j a run for its money). And ya gotta love that tropical theme! It's the perfect game to play when you feel like you need a vacation.

Gamereviewgod

08-26-2011, 10:08 PM

I'll say Bare Knuckle III, everyone is so in love with Streets of Rage 2 and won't admit that BKIII is better. Well fuck it all, I'm standing up for it, always have. Though the American SOR3 sucked, but the Japanese version is way awesome. And there's a fan translation patch for it now, so really there's no excuse to not love this game. It does everything that part 2 did it, but it does it better.

SoRIII has some fancy moves, but SoR2 has tighter combos that just hit harder. The third one felt soft, and the music? Bleh. So there.

I'll add to the thread and say Final Fight 2. The new characters were fun, the visuals had a nice pop, and it's mechanically as sound as the first. Not big on the character designs as they went increasingly goofy (way off the charts by the third), but 2 is a proper sequel.

And did someone say Yoshi's Island earlier? There's a segment of the gaming populace who doesn't care for it? What a beautiful game to hate.

allyourblood

08-26-2011, 10:19 PM

Castlevania Circle of the Moon. Aside from CV2, Circle of the Moon is my favorite exploration CV. It's a new style CV title but it stays true to the older games by having a balanced difficulty throughout the game, and while there are no death pits, there's also a good amount of platforming required. If you finish the game on the standard mode, there are four extras that you can play through, Thief mode being similar to SotN's luck mode with lower stats and gains in every aspect except for luck.

Woah, I had no idea people didn't care for this one. I love CotM!! Can't even imagine why anyone would complain. I certainly prefer it over Harmony of Dissonance, that's for sure.

Super Mario Sunshine

Everyone bashes this game for not being as good as Mario 64, but I actually think it's better. It has better and more creative level design and is much more challenging (the FLUDDless levels in particular give Super Mario Bros. 2j a run for its money). And ya gotta love that tropical theme! It's the perfect game to play when you feel like you need a vacation.

This game was being discussed in another thread very recently. I think SMS is awesome. It controls well, it looks gorgeous, and it's way fun. I've played this game through about 3 times, and I'm sure I'll play it again soon. I thought the water gun was a neat idea and was used well. I also am a big fan of the tropical vibe in the game; the music and colors are very relaxing.

Oh, and I choose Metal Gear Solid 2. I thought it was an excellent follow up to the first game, and it plays well on its own. That it was completely, insanely absurd and bananas just added to the fun.

j_factor

08-27-2011, 01:25 AM

Streets of Rage 3, even the US version. I never understood why people say the Japanese version is so much better. I'm not saying the Japanese version isn't better, but the differences are pretty minor. I don't really care that much about the plot, and I can do without the gay stereotype boss. I think the soundtrack is great, by the way.

Nirvana

08-27-2011, 01:36 AM

Final Fantasy VIII. It's very underrated and one of my favorite of the series. I absolutely love the card mini-game and that it's actually vital to getting some of the better weapons. Good plot (minus the whole orphanage flash back), amazing cut scenes (for the time anyway), and good playability. It's one of my favorite PS1 games.

Tempest

Damn straight! I also was quite fond of FF8 and actually prefer it to the much-loved FF7. I think FF8 hate has tapered off now since most Final Fantasy fans are much too busy hating on FF13 to hate on 8.

Final fantasy 8 is number one on my list (i've gone so far as to have a squall costume + lifesized gunblade replica)

also super hydlide and super pitfall I'll stand behind 100%

Wow, that's amazing. I clicked on this topic immediately thinking Final Fantasy VIII. Seriously, a lot of people bashed the game. Whether it was the drawing system or the storyline, some people just didn't like it. It's as if they wanted a carbon copy of FFVII, which is a masterpiece. But FFVIII was incredible, and I'll always defend it.

alec006

08-27-2011, 02:25 AM

Luigi's Mansion, sure it was a launch title, but it's not really a bad game. Took abit of time to complete it and I really liked the look and feel of the game.

NBaco

08-27-2011, 07:29 AM

-Mega Man 7
I'm shocked to have read all the complaints of this game over the past couple years. I thought it was really cool that Capcom brought back the original MegaMan on SNES even when X already launched. It was a welcomed sight from where I sit, and I just really enjoyed MM7. Moreso than most people it'd seem. I'll always defend it though

Yeah, I've seen MM7 get bashed a bit. I consider it one of the best games in the series right up there with MM2, MM3, and MMV on GB. How could anyone not like the ending? DIE WILY!

I'd also like to throw Mega Man 8 into the ring here at this point. Again, it got some hate but I thought it was a fun game. Astro Crush rules!

Robocop2

08-27-2011, 08:19 AM

One for sure I know is Twisted Metal 3. I've played them all and found 1 and 2 to be much less enjoyable than TM3. Of course it was my first Twisted Metal game so that may color my response some but really imo its the best PS1 entry.

Patney

08-27-2011, 08:43 AM

Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarters is one of my favorite games ever... I was excited to play it, and like many others, was left severely disappointed because it had changed so much from the usual BoF formula. At that point I was pretty young, which may have had something to do with it too. Later on, about three years ago, I found the game cheap (after having sold the original copy) and bought it on a whim, and after giving it a second try knowing how different it was, I absolutely loved it. Nothing felt wrong, and I would say it's on par with BoF 3. People who hate the game should give it a second chance and stop thinking "WHY ISN'T THIS LIKE THE OLD GAMES". I thought what they did with Breath of Fire: DQ was very interesting, and the combat system is excellent.

burn_654

08-27-2011, 09:44 AM

I can definitely agree with MGS2. A lot of people gave it flack ('most of the game you don't play as snake!' etc.) but screw it, it was a very cool game and I really enjoyed it. I don't think I liked MGS3 as much as I did 2 imo. Plus it was a good follow-up to possibly one of the best games out there, Metal Gear Solid.

I don't think I've ever heard hate for Yoshi's Island...in truth a lot of gamers I know haven't actually tried it. (They jumped ship for the next gen around that time.) It's one of the prettiest 2d titles I can think of.

bangtango

08-27-2011, 10:13 AM

-Final Fight 3
I've seen some bash this game, but I think it's actually the best of the FF games on SNES. It does play quite well, IMO. It just doesn't get enough credit

Given the multi-player and the number of playable characters, I agree it is the best Final Fight game on the SNES system.

Patney

08-27-2011, 10:15 AM

Luigi's Mansion, sure it was a launch title, but it's not really a bad game. Took abit of time to complete it and I really liked the look and feel of the game.

I had no idea that was a hated game. It's a really solid title.

Frankie_Says_Relax

08-27-2011, 10:20 AM

I really really enjoyed Castlevania Legends on Gameboy.

Not sure if I'm tuned-in enough to the "weaknesses" of any game in the series, but I never got all the hate that the game got when I compared it to the first two GB games or any of the other traditional 8-bit entries.

goatdan

08-27-2011, 11:12 AM

Luigi's Mansion, sure it was a launch title, but it's not really a bad game. Took abit of time to complete it and I really liked the look and feel of the game.

I was thinking of the same thing. I don't know if it is a black sheep, as it is the only game of it's type in the 3D Mario world and it isn't really Mario, but I like it a bazillion times better than any 3D Mario game I have ever played.

Tempest

08-27-2011, 11:35 AM

I was thinking of the same thing. I don't know if it is a black sheep, as it is the only game of it's type in the 3D Mario world and it isn't really Mario, but I like it a bazillion times better than any 3D Mario game I have ever played.
I think Super Mario Sunshine is generally considered to be the black sheep of the the modern Mario's. Luigi's Mansion is sort of a side game from the series.

That being said, I loved Sunshine when I got it with my Cube. The FLUDD-less levels in particular were great fun to me (if a little frustrating). Oddly enough I absolutely hated Mario 64, maybe because I didn't play it until it was a Wii download and it felt very dated.

Tempest

GameNinja

08-27-2011, 05:35 PM

I too loved Castlevania CoM and every CV fan I know (small list of...2) likes it a lot as well. It was dark (litereally) but it was a bit spookier than the other ones as well. If there is a "black sheep" of the recent CV GBA/DS games it would probably be Harmony of Dissonance (but I liked that one too and most fans probably do as well!)

Edmond Dantes

08-27-2011, 07:32 PM

If I'm honest, I thought ALL Mega Man games before X5 were pretty good.

I've heard people bash the original Battle Network basically for not being a traditional Mega Man game (same happened to Legends), but honestly, even though I don't like how that series overshadowed the original and I never played the sequels, I thought the first one was pretty fun, and liked the battle system.

Also seconding Metal Gear Solid 2. I've heard plenty of "deep, meaningful" stories in my time, but this is one of the few games that actually lived up to the claim and made you think (if anything, just as a defense mechanism against going completely insane), and if a game is gonna tell me a story then it has to challenge me like that, or I'm just not interested. As a previous poster said, the problem was the mindset of the critics, not any fault with the game itself. Gameplay-wise it was an improvement in every way over MGS1, and easily better than fan-favorite MGS3 (which I consider the worst in the trilogy).

Finally, I've seen some people diss on R-Type Leo for not being like the rest of the series. While the change of pace is a little odd, I still find the game to be solid entertainment.

Patney

08-27-2011, 08:24 PM

I think MGS2 is better than MGS1, but MGS3 is still my favorite, no contest. All of the gameplay mechanics blend really well and I love the setting. And some of the moments are just... strongly touching. Few games makes this impact on me.

To be honest the only Metal Gear Solid I dislike is MGS4. It added a lot of cool gameplay mechanics, but I felt like you never got a chance to explore them.

cynicalhat

08-27-2011, 08:31 PM

kupomogli

08-27-2011, 08:49 PM

I've always had a place in my gamespace for JAWS on the NES. It's a simple game that can be beat in 15 minutes. Perfect to bust out for a bit of fun IMO. Defend it all day.

Although its not a series its, a movie licensed game, and those always get flack.

Black sheep in a series basically means a game in the series that's widely regarded as the worst games in the series for some reason or another. Examples being Final Fantasy Legend 3(being the only SaGa game that doesn't play like a SaGa game and is only just decent for being a standard RPG,) Phantasy Star 3, Zelda 2, etc.

leatherrebel5150

08-27-2011, 09:13 PM

Donkey Kong Country 3, I hear alot of people rag on this one but I find it just as fun as the other two. It might not be the best one but is definatley is not bad.

I would have disagreed with some above me and said I didn't like Super Mario Bros. 2 but I started playing the hell out of it at the beginning of this week and have really grown to love it. Once you get used to some of the oddities like throwing the enemies rather than stomping them its become really enjoyable. Except there is one thing that will always annoy the hell out of me and that is the eagle head at the end of every level you walk through. I just don't get it.

j_factor

08-27-2011, 09:53 PM

Donkey Kong Country 3

This is by far my favorite of the DKC trilogy. I don't know why anyone prefers the first two. The third has the best level design. I understand why people don't like Kiddie Kong, but it's not like he talks or anything, so who cares?

Patney

08-27-2011, 10:06 PM

I like the game, but it lacks this "something extra" the first two games had. It tries too hard to evolve the series but still feels uninspired and bland... I can't quite explain it. The second game also has the objectively best soundtrack of all time. (http://youtu.be/73n7HTcmb5g) (Just kidding at objectively, but dayumn if it isn't good) I never heard a song like that from DKC3, nothing really stood out.

j_factor

08-27-2011, 11:20 PM

I won't argue that DKC2's soundtrack was worse, but DKC3 had a good soundtrack too IMO. How about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XAWhFZ5mzI) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfrYto7BJg)?

The first DKC was the only one that felt uninspired and bland (gameplay-wise) to me. A lot of the levels are very basic. It tries to cover that up with Rare's (then-new, now signature) multiple collection nonsense, but fails, at least for me, because I refuse to pay attention to that stuff. With DKC2 and 3, I still don't pay attention to all the different coins and whatnot, but I can still have fun, because they're well-designed games.

Famidrive-16

08-27-2011, 11:51 PM

Rocket Knight 2010 was so much better than what people gave it.

Kirby's Dream Land 3 is also really great, but got ignored.

Singletriad

08-28-2011, 02:21 AM

SpaceHarrier

08-28-2011, 02:52 AM

Metroid: Other M

I can't help it.. I just had so much more fun with this one than the rest of the series. Though I was never the biggest Metroid fan, mind you. I have played them all, minus the original gameboy iteration.

Also, +1 more for FFVIII and Castlevania Dracula X

Cryomancer

08-28-2011, 02:58 AM

Knuckles Chaotix for me.

I also agree with Secret of Evermore, that's a good game that gets flak it doesn't deserve.

Aussie2B

08-28-2011, 03:06 AM

The first DKC was the only one that felt uninspired and bland (gameplay-wise) to me. A lot of the levels are very basic. It tries to cover that up with Rare's (then-new, now signature) multiple collection nonsense, but fails, at least for me, because I refuse to pay attention to that stuff.

What "multiple collection nonsense"? The only thing the first game had was "collecting" percentage points by discovering secrets. Unless you count bananas, but they're no different from collecting coins with Mario or rings with Sonic. Same concept with the KONG letters.

I really like all three DKC games. I don't think any of them go overboard with collecting things. Rare didn't start taking that to extremes until the N64. I mean, just to beat Banjo-Kazooie at all, you have to collect almost EVERYTHING in the game. In any of the DKC games, you can basically skip collecting anything and just work your way to the exit of each stage (but you won't get the true final boss and best ending).

I've never understood people that hate DKC3 if they love DKC2 since it plays basically exactly the same. I can get that it's more cartoony, has lame music, and Kiddy is a joke, but big whoop. It's still an excellent platformer.

Some other "black sheep" mentioned in this topic that I like:

Castlevania II
Castlevania Adventure
Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
Zelda II
Super Mario Bros. 2
Sonic Spinball
Super Mario Sunshine
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
Secret of Evermore

Also, Star Ocean 3 and 4.

I'd also rank Final Fantasy II (the real 2) above the first Final Fantasy and VII, but I'm not that crazy about any Final Fantasy.

Ackman

08-28-2011, 05:04 AM

I like DKC3 but it has some really awkward stages, that aren't particularly fun. DKC2 is more straightforward action, most of the DKC2 stages are extremely replayable and fun.

kupomogli

08-28-2011, 05:44 AM

Rocket Knight 2010 was so much better than what people gave it.

Other than Infamous 2 as it didn't come out that long ago, this is the only demo on my PS3 that I've kept since the initial download. I sometimes go back to it even. It's a really fun game. For the stages you get to play, I think it's more fun than Sparkster Genesis, but RKA and Sparkster SNES are better.

I would purchase it, but I'm anti digital content and even then $14.99 for a downloadable title is just too much for me, even with how much I've enjoyed it. I've been waiting for it to go on sale and drop to atleast $10 before I pick it up but it still hasn't happened. I might make an except to the anti digital thing for Harmony of Despair though.

crazyjackcsa

08-28-2011, 06:44 AM

Earthworm Jim 3D for the N64. In hindsight, it's probably only because I'm a huge EWJ fan.

Patney

08-28-2011, 08:34 AM

I won't argue that DKC2's soundtrack was worse, but DKC3 had a good soundtrack too IMO. How about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XAWhFZ5mzI) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfrYto7BJg)?
Good songs and all, but I still think they are pretty basic, as opposed to the musical themes of playing the very first stage and you're on this wrecked ship on an island with promises of many adventures (http://youtu.be/PwyipDW-t4Q), traversing deep icy mines (http://youtu.be/S8Z8T3skJkE), exploring this weird forest (http://youtu.be/hRR47I88RJ8), being trapped in a honey-overflowing bee hive (http://youtu.be/_rg6Ua-UYOM), frantically trying to get out of the water before it turns into red murder water for no good reason (http://youtu.be/WuF1hvF3A6c), shooting yourself through the clouds... and tons of dangerous thorns (http://youtu.be/HaSkYXbMAFc), and climbing the trap-filled and slightly claustrophobic castle of K. Rool (http://youtu.be/CP0nFpV_fd8).

I know I went a bit overboard linking to music here but that's just how flawless I think this masterpiece is. My point is, while DKC2 has tons of these tracks that stick with you, DKC3 has none, at least for me.

heybtbm

08-28-2011, 09:33 AM

Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
Super Mario Sunshine
Zelda: Wind Waker
Final Fantasy VIII

Love all those games and have never understood the dislike/hate directed towards them.

NBaco

08-28-2011, 10:21 AM

Windwaker and Castlevania 64.

I never played any Castlevania game before the 64 one, so I can actually like it (not held back by the "its different from the old ones so its bad" way of thinking)
I loved the game but never beat it. I hope to replay it again soon and beat it then

I have a hard time defending Wind Waker because of the horrid Triforce quest, but I'll defend CV64 (and Legacy of Darkness) till I go to my grave. They're honestly not that bad. Yes, they're different from the originals but different doesn't mean it's bad. Once you get passed the Mansion, CV64 starts to really take shape.

Another one I'd like to throw out there is a Fullmetal Alchemist game for PS2 called "The Curse of the Crimson Elixer". I'm not even a hardcore fan of the anime and I still can't understand why all the hate this game gets. I think people look at it as an action-rpg and end up being very disappointed. I look at it as a beat-em-up game. In that respect, it actually does a pretty good job. You just run around beating the hell out of various enemies, using weapons, dodging attacks, etc. The DS game "Dual Symphony" also gets ragged on pretty hard and ironically it too is a beat-em-up. I guess people don't like the beat-em-up genre too much.

EDIT: Just thought I would elaborate on the fact that yes, the FMA games are indeed a "series". They started out as JRPGs over in Japan, which is why I think many people disliked the beat-em-up FMA games. They probably expected them to be RPGs or Action-RPGs.

Gameguy

08-28-2011, 12:45 PM

kupomogli

08-28-2011, 01:10 PM

Besides Sonic Spinball I like Sonic 3D Blast, it's far from the best Sonic game out there but it's really not that bad. It just plays slower than most other Sonic games. I haven't really played it for hours on end though so I'm not sure if it would start to annoy me by that point.

Two more games I enjoy. I dislike the Sonic series, but these two games are the only ones I can really play without getting bored. I actually mentioned this in the "games you can't understand the appeal of" thread.

Vlcice

08-28-2011, 03:03 PM

Glad to see some Wind Waker love in this thread. I'm playing it for the first time and loving the crap out of it. It's definitely my favourite 3D Zelda game. The game world is so much fresher than any of the other ones; I love that it avoided trying to retread the themes of the other games to try something new. The ship exploration is also very fun, and reminds me a lot of Skies of Arcadia.

I never gave Sonic Spinball a fair chance when I first played it, but my boyfriend convinced me to give it another go and I'm a convert now. I'd love to see more games try that kind of pinball/platformer hybrid.

More recent: I like King of Fighters XII a lot. I can see why it turned people off since it's such a major departure from the rest of the KOF series, and is missing many classic KOF characters. Taken as its own game, though, the mechanics are actually really excellent - the physics, mechanics, and game flow make it feel more like a Fatal Fury/Garou:MOTW sequel than a KOF game, and I enjoyed that.

KOF XIII is excellent, but I can't agree with people who call it the "real" or "fixed" version of KOF XII because they're completely different games.

substantial_snake

08-28-2011, 04:04 PM

MGS 2
Knuckles Chaotix
Final Fantasy VIII
Medal of Honor (reboot)
Tokyo Xtream Racer 3
Twisted Metal 3
Sonic Rush Series

It looks like I share the same sentiment with a lotta people in this tread. These are just games that I always thoroughly enjoy playing regardless of what reviewers or their own fan bases think of them.

Personally FFVIII is the one I will get the most defensive about since I really loved that game when it came out. It sits with Xenogears (and a few others) as the few RPGs that I go back and play every few years or so. It certainty has faults but I could never wrap my brain around all of the hate it tends to receive.

allyourblood

08-29-2011, 12:04 AM

I would purchase it, but I'm anti digital content... I might make an except to the anti digital thing for Harmony of Despair though.

No! Don't do it! United we stand, blah blah blah...

But seriously, back away!

Haoie

08-29-2011, 02:24 AM

Devil May Cry 2 wasn't that bad!

Although it's easily the worst for the PS2.

Ackman

08-29-2011, 07:56 AM

I liked DMC 2, It was a pretty good game. It was much better than Hunter and Gungrave Overdose, probably loads of other PS2 action games.

If only it had a different main character and name I don't think it would have got such a bad rap. It's definately more shooter orientated than the other DMC games. I think Shinobi on the PS2 is awesome but I'll admit it is far from a perfect game, still it's just so damn awesome.

TurboGenesis

08-29-2011, 09:26 AM

I LOVE the three "2's" of the NES� Super Mario 2, Zelda II, and Simon's Quest. These are my favorite of their respective franchises even to this day! I liked how they took the original game, and created something new and fresh, while keeping some core elements of the originals they were based upon� these games were very refreshing to play when they came out after playing and enjoying the originals!

another game that I enjoy, that gets alot of dislike, is Defender 2000 on the Atari Jaguar� I understand that Defender (and Stargate) are well liked games and were very popular for their time, and I love them too� but Defender 2k gets flack for being a "sub-par" game� I really love it and I place it up there with Tempest 2k� It's a really nice game and Minter did a fine job with it!

Also another game I really enjoy that seems to not be popular in the franchise by fans, Castlevania IV on the Super Nintendo� this game is really amazing and I love the things that you are able to do with the whip, why this has NEVER been implemented in any other Castlevania title is beyond me! CVIV really makes the SNES sound shine with its amazing music, and the graphics aren't too bad, sure they may be a bit on the large side, but the game plays and looks fine!

I could name more if given more time, I am an odd fellow, and I usually like games that most hate� I usually am drawn to things that are hated in general� I guess I am able to look deeper and find quality in someone elses rubbish�

Casati

08-30-2011, 11:27 AM

NES Bases Loaded II. Most people mention the original Bases Loaded as the best of the series, but all four have their good and bad points. BL2 has the worst graphics, worst soundtrack (continuous loop of "hell no, we won't go" rhythm) and relatively few pitchers. Also bad was it's ants homerun sequence.

Most people hate BL2's side-view fielding screen, but I think it's an improvement over BL1 and the best in the series. BL1's fielding had a lemmings quality where the player's would start running off the field after every play, and were constantly running around like lemmings. BL2 streamlined their movements while enhancing the simulation quality of the original. BL3 and BL4 reduced the batted ball and basethrowing outcomes.

A lot of people also hate the player biorhythms, but it adds realism of hot streaks and slumps when you're playing through a 162-game season making you evaluate batter lineups for every game. BL4 used a star ratings system that was supposed to improve on the biorhythms, but instead made it so that all you had to do was strike out a few batters the first inning to build your pitcher's stars to 3, then your pitcher would be untouchable the rest of the game. BL3 rudely beeps at you every time you make a mistake according to it's perfect game criteria.

The original took nearly an hour to play because of the lemmings-induced downtime and scoreboard that would display between action. BL2 reduced the game time and is one of the few vintage video baseball games where the ref doesn't yell "safe" if it's obvious the runner reached base in time.

BL2 has good pitching, batting, baserunning and stealing, like the original. BL3 and BL4 made it too easy to strike out computer batters without varying your pitches. Also, BL2 has short 7-letter passwords. It's probably the best game for someone looking for a baseball simulation on the NES (better than Baseball Stars).