Wii U Only as Powerful As Current Gen Consoles?

[Griking]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/03/does-it-matter-if-the-wii-u-only-has-current-generation-hardware-power.ars


"We'll have a few new features for sure, but I think visually, for the most part, it'll be pretty much the same," Donald said of the Wii U version of Darksiders 2, which is being planned as a launch title for the system. "So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generation, so, based on what I understand, the resolution, textures, polygon counts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."

I'm can't say that I'm surprised but I can't lie, I am a bit disappointed.

[NayusDante]

I feel bad for this Donald fellow. He said one thing about Wii U capabilities and the entire Internet goes crazy about it.

"On par" doesn't necessarily mean the same as "performance capped." We already know it's at least as powerful as PS3/360. His statement reiterates that. We won't know how much breathing room there is above that spec until later.

If you want a real analysis of raw capability, go petition Epic to do a UE3 benchmark on all the platforms including Wii U.

[kupomogli]

I'm already getting one as I don't own a Wii and I'll use it as a console as well as a portable console since you can play it anywhere there's a power outlet without the need for a tv.

If it's not much more powerful than the current gen consoles, that's a huge fanbase Nintendo is going to lose. It's already going to be more expensive than one of two systems most people already own, so aside from exclusives, why purchase the system when you can play the exact same game with the exact same quality on another console. Like the Wii, I see a lack of good exclusives for the Wii U, so good thing I'll be picking up the games I've missed to have some good games when the system comes out.

Also, depending on my opinion of the controller playing a regular game, I may or may not start purchasing my exclusives for the Wii, even if it does get a better version. Unless of course there's compatibility with that one classic controller pro which is like a SNES controller with R2/L2.

[RCM]

I'm not interested in Wii U in the slightest at this point. If Nintendo wants my attention (and $) stop talking horsepower and start talking innovation beyond drawing Dreamcast logos on Tekken characters' faces. Wii U might be the first Nintendo console I skip completely unless they really knock my socks off with their launch line up. And no, Mario and Zelda don't do it for me anymore.

[Emperor Megas]

I'm not interested in Wii U in the slightest at this point. If Nintendo wants my attention (and $) stop talking horsepower and start talking innovation beyond drawing Dreamcast logos on Tekken characters' faces.Wait, what? What are you talking about, exactly? I don't know anything about the Wii U so that was lost on me.

[RCM]

Wait, what? What are you talking about, exactly? I don't know anything about the Wii U so that was lost on me.

From the initial Wii U sizzle reel (I believe) showing us what we can do with the "power" of Wii U.

http://s15.postimage.org/hmz27i1l3/tekken_wii_u_tag.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/hmz27i1l3/)

[Emperor Megas]

From the initial Wii U sizzle reel (I believe) showing us what we can do with the "power" of Wii U.

http://s15.postimage.org/hmz27i1l3/tekken_wii_u_tag.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/hmz27i1l3/)Ahahaha!

[Rob2600]

Maybe I'm mistaken or misunderstood, but I thought Nintendo said the Wii U will run games natively in 1080p (whereas most Xbox 360 and PS3 games are upscaled to 1080p from 540p-640p). Am I wrong?

From a different Ars Technica article (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/06/report-wii-u-50-percent-more-powerful-than-ps3.ars):

"Industrygamers.com scored the following quote from Sterne Agee analyst Arvind Bhatia: 'Some of the developers we spoke to indicated to us that the console will have 50 percent more processing power compared to the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360. This is yet to be confirmed by Nintendo.'"

So at this point, who knows?


Also, a comment from the article in the original post:

"I think its only appropriate to remember that another member of the same company Vigil Games already contradicted that:

When we asked Bonstead if he thought it was possible that the Wii U version of Darksiders II would be the best version of the game, he said, "Yeah, just because the hardware is more powerful and it will have some extra features that I think will actually be useful to people playing the game. With it’s controller, [the Wii U version of Darksiders II] might be the best version of the game."

[kupomogli]

Maybe I'm mistaken or misunderstood, but I thought Nintendo said the Wii U will run games natively in 1080p (whereas most Xbox 360 and PS3 games are upscaled to 1080p from 540p-640p). Am I wrong?

Most PS3 and 360 games run at 720p. Very few games run at sub hd resolution.

[Rickstilwell1]

If they keep the Wii U name and the system turns out that it stinks, maybe people who don't like it will call it the Pii-U. hahaha

[The 1 2 P]

I'm personally less interested in it's power output and more interested in it's future games. So far I haven't seen much to get me interested in this system but I'm waiting for E3 to get some more info.

[j_factor]

Maybe I'm mistaken or misunderstood, but I thought Nintendo said the Wii U will run games natively in 1080p (whereas most Xbox 360 and PS3 games are upscaled to 1080p from 540p-640p). Am I wrong?

PS3 does not upscale PS3 games. They all run at 720p minimum (requirement by Sony), and some run at 1080p. With 360, however, you are correct, many games are running at a lower resolution and upscaled. Also I don't think any 360 games run at 1080p -- the system couldn't even output 1080p until a firmware update about a year after launch.


Most PS3 and 360 games run at 720p. Very few games run at sub hd resolution.

All PS3 games run at 720p, but, tons of 360 games don't. Off the top of my head, I know that Halo 3 runs at 600p, and Tomb Raider Legend runs at 576p.

[Rob2600]

PS3 does not upscale PS3 games. They all run at 720p minimum (requirement by Sony), and some run at 1080p. With 360, however, you are correct, many games are running at a lower resolution and upscaled. Also I don't think any 360 games run at 1080p -- the system couldn't even output 1080p until a firmware update about a year after launch.

All PS3 games run at 720p, but, tons of 360 games don't. Off the top of my head, I know that Halo 3 runs at 600p, and Tomb Raider Legend runs at 576p.

Thanks for clarifying. So even *if* the Wii U produces the same level of graphics as the Xbox 360 and PS3, but every game runs in 1080p at 60fps, that would already be a nice step up. I have a feeling the graphics will end up being even a bit better though. Probably not a huge leap forward, but a noticeable improvement from what's out now.

And if the Wii U costs less than $300, that's a fantastic balance between technology and affordability.

[substantial_snake]

The idea of the tablet controller hybrid is interesting and I can see a lot of ways it could bring interesting features to games.

However I hope that being around as powerful (probable significantly more so) then the current consoles really allows for more cross pollination in terms of games. Despite all the advanced graphics or innovation features a particular console has its really about the games...period. I am not interested in another console to just play Mario and his many spinoffs, Zelda, Smash Brothers, with the occasional Metriod and Starfox with months of downtime in between the next Nintendo hit and the occasional standout third party offering.

I'm curious to see weather the gap is shortened enough to still provide the same relative experience as the other big console manufactures provide once their next machines come along. I think that time a year or two after the Wii U is released will really be telling weather the system will be another Wii for third party publishers or if its going to really compete again for the older market. I'll also be interesting to see whether Nintendo can convince the huge market they have made with the Wii to pick up the next "wii".

[kupomogli]

Not all PS3 games run at 720p. Also, while the 360 can upscale all games to 1080p, the PS3 can upscale some but it has to be developed that way.

Brutal Legend is 720p on the 360 but around 700 on the PS3 version. Battlefield 3 is the same way on both consoles. Chronicles of Riddick is sub HD on the PS3. Grand Theft Auto 4, one of my favorite games this gen is sub hd on the PS3, although the Episodes From Liberty City titles are 720p.

I know that Episodes From Liberty City can be upscaled to 1080p on the PS3. I'm sure there are also other games.

[j_factor]

Brutal Legend is 720p on the 360 but around 700 on the PS3 version.

Brutal Legend on PS3 runs at 1152x720 -- slightly less than standard 720p resolution, but only horizontally.


Battlefield 3 is the same way on both consoles.

Battlefield 3 is (slightly) letterboxed. It's still "720p" but running in a slight window (1280x704).


Chronicles of Riddick is sub HD on the PS3.

Just like Brutal Legend, it's only smaller horizontally. Still 720 progressive lines -- 1024x720.


Grand Theft Auto 4, one of my favorite games this gen is sub hd on the PS3, although the Episodes From Liberty City titles are 720p.

You're right. GTA4 apparently only runs at 640p natively and scales. So I guess I stand corrected -- PS3 games merely have to support 720p, and Sony doesn't care how the game gets there. But, the PS3 doesn't upscale, the game has to do it in software. That's still different from the 360, where they can simply release a game at any resolution and the console will upscale it. There's got to be fewer sub-HD games on PS3 as a result.

[Genesaturn]

I'm pretty sure Epic already talked about the Wii U and there is suppose to be a tech demo of the Samaritan running on it and looking beautiful , so if that's true then Wii U will be more than on par with current consoles.

[Leo_A]

The Xbox 360 has the occasional game that can natively run in 1080p. Going off a list from early 2010, the 360 had a half dozen or so retail games that could do it to about 15 on the PS3.

Not many on either console unless a lot has changed over the past two years.

Edit - Found another source from around the same time that said it's 5 versus 30. Not a huge number either way and there are no huge names on the list.

[Gamevet]

The Xbox 360 has the occasional game that can natively run in 1080p. Going off a list from early 2010, the 360 had a half dozen or so retail games that could do it to about 15 on the PS3.

Not many on either console unless a lot has changed over the past two years.

Edit - Found another source from around the same time that said it's 5 versus 30. Not a huge number either way and there are no huge names on the list.

I know Wipeout HD is 1080p and it looks pretty good.

[Ryudo]

I can't find this anywhere else. Plus reports keep being conflicting.

Some devs say it has a CPU of Xbox 360. Some say the CPU is the one powering Watson. Some say it's 50% more powerful. Some say it has over 700MB of ram and others say 1GB of ram.

So I have come to the conclusion to not believe anyone outside Nintendo at this point or Ifixit when they get a hand on it. Til then no one can agree how powerful it is.


Me personally I don't care. I just await to see what Monolith Soft is making for it.

[Griking]

I can't find this anywhere else. Plus reports keep being conflicting.

Some devs say it has a CPU of Xbox 360. Some say the CPU is the one powering Watson. Some say it's 50% more powerful. Some say it has over 700MB of ram and others say 1GB of ram.

So I have come to the conclusion to not believe anyone outside Nintendo at this point or Ifixit when they get a hand on it. Til then no one can agree how powerful it is.


Me personally I don't care. I just await to see what Monolith Soft is making for it.


I find it hard to not take the word of someone who's currently designing a game for it.

[Ryudo]

I find it hard to not take the word of someone who's currently designing a game for it.

Other devs making games for it have said what I just mentioned. SO some devs conflict what he is saying. Esp when someone of his own team conflicts what he said. Go read up if you have not kept up with the Wii U news It ranges from some devs at 50% more powerful and some say it has 700MB of ram some say it's 1GB and some devs said the early dev units were underclocked to help them dev easier for it



So the point is no developer can agree to how powerful the system actually is.

[Trebuken]

I think Nintendo has not announced the final specs because they are monitoring the costs of of the Wii-U and will likely not finalize the hardware until it gors to manufacturing for a Christmas launch. The dev units likely do not operate at 100% the capacity of the final product, but they represent the final hardware sufficiently that they will scaale to the actual system. I imagine they could add a faster CPU or GPU that is compatible with the ones in the dev unit.

[kedawa]

I imagine that's what's happening as well.
It's hard to properly evaluate hardware performance without mature software, so I imagine some decisions on the hardware spec won't be made until they have put the prototype hardware though its paces with a near-finished game, and have the benefit of feedback from developers.

[j_factor]

I think Nintendo has not announced the final specs because they are monitoring the costs of of the Wii-U and will likely not finalize the hardware until it gors to manufacturing for a Christmas launch. The dev units likely do not operate at 100% the capacity of the final product, but they represent the final hardware sufficiently that they will scaale to the actual system. I imagine they could add a faster CPU or GPU that is compatible with the ones in the dev unit.

This seems right. Not to mention, a port being on par with the current generation doesn't mean much. Xbox 360 had some last-gen ports that were pretty on par with the other versions.

[Gameguy]

I'm not sure if it will really matter all that much if the new Nintendo console is only as powerful as current gen stuff. In that other thread on the new PS4 it said that the console will be capable of displaying resolutions that most modern TVs can't even display. What's the point if you can't even take advantage of the new features? Usually consoles become more powerful so the graphics can be improved, it seems like there's nowhere left to go with graphics for what displays people have available to them.

[j_factor]

I'm not sure if it will really matter all that much if the new Nintendo console is only as powerful as current gen stuff. In that other thread on the new PS4 it said that the console will be capable of displaying resolutions that most modern TVs can't even display. What's the point if you can't even take advantage of the new features? Usually consoles become more powerful so the graphics can be improved, it seems like there's nowhere left to go with graphics for what displays people have available to them.

There's definitely room for improvement within 1080p. Comparing recent PC games to their console brethren shows this. I do agree that 4k resolution is silly; not only do people not own 4k TV sets, they're not likely to in the near future either. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in resolution (or would barely be able to) unless the screen is massive.

[Rob2600]

it seems like there's nowhere left to go with graphics for what displays people have available to them.

Even if every last ounce of the PS3's power were devoted to a game running in 480i, it *still* wouldn't look like a real movie or TV show. Bump the resolution up to 720p or 1080p, and a lot of that horsepower is lost, making games look even *less* like real movies or TV shows.

So yeah, there's still room for improvement. I'm not saying video games *need* improved graphics, but technically there is still room. And it's not just about higher polygon counts. It's more advanced lighting/shading, shadows, animations, texturing, hair, physics, etc.

[Trebuken]

There's definitely room for improvement within 1080p. Comparing recent PC games to their console brethren shows this. I do agree that 4k resolution is silly; not only do people not own 4k TV sets, they're not likely to in the near future either. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in resolution (or would barely be able to) unless the screen is massive.

I believe the first 4k set went on sale a couple of years ago. Also there are receivers and devices that upconvert to 4k (or some semblance of it).

I do not think 4K is silly. If you have ever seen a true IMAX presentation at a museum for example (not the stuff at your local theatre) you can see a distinct improvement over anything in 1080p. I think it may take 4k to achieve that in the home. I also believe that when they are convert 'older' films to digitail they often go the 4k route for preservation (though 4k is a little overkill).

I think 4k will be the sweet spot for movies eventually, but I doubt games will get there as fast as film. PC monitors are overdue for an increase in resolution. For the longest time the only way to achieve a higher resolution has been to purchase a larger screen (generally speaking).

I think people would notice a difference in 4k. It would be similar to DVD versus Blu-Ray (some people don't see the difference). The material presented in 4K would have to be shot in 4K though. Why not 4K3D?

I think the real IMAX films are actually higher resolution than 4K, but of course with such a large screen it needs to be.

[Bojay1997]

I think you would be surprised at how minimal the visible difference is between 1080P and 4K displays in the home environment. The human eye is only capable of detecting a very limited amount of information. Having worked with 4K displays on a professional level for the past few years, I think the benefit to the consumer is pretty minimal at much above 1080P and many people cannot even appreciate the improvement in 4K over 1080P at all, even on large displays.

You're right that there are receivers and soon Blu Ray players from Sony and other manufacturers that will upconvert to 4K. Having said that, ultimately its not true 4K but rather doubling of the resolution lines with the same information just like an upconverting Blu Ray player does to SD DVDs. The biggest problem with 4K is that it takes significantly more bandwidth and storage space than 1080P content. Literally, even with the best compression techniques currently available, it would take a bunch of Blu Rays to store a 4K movie currently.

There's a great article on the various myths and different ways companies claim to have 4K products when they are really focusing too much attention on things like pixels which people can't even really see beyond a certain level.

http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of-pixels



I believe the first 4k set went on sale a couple of years ago. Also there are receivers and devices that upconvert to 4k (or some semblance of it).

I do not think 4K is silly. If you have ever seen a true IMAX presentation at a museum for example (not the stuff at your local theatre) you can see a distinct improvement over anything in 1080p. I think it may take 4k to achieve that in the home. I also believe that when they are convert 'older' films to digitail they often go the 4k route for preservation (though 4k is a little overkill).

I think 4k will be the sweet spot for movies eventually, but I doubt games will get there as fast as film. PC monitors are overdue for an increase in resolution. For the longest time the only way to achieve a higher resolution has been to purchase a larger screen (generally speaking).

I think people would notice a difference in 4k. It would be similar to DVD versus Blu-Ray (some people don't see the difference). The material presented in 4K would have to be shot in 4K though. Why not 4K3D?

I think the real IMAX films are actually higher resolution than 4K, but of course with such a large screen it needs to be.

[Gameguy]

There's definitely room for improvement within 1080p. Comparing recent PC games to their console brethren shows this. I do agree that 4k resolution is silly; not only do people not own 4k TV sets, they're not likely to in the near future either. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in resolution (or would barely be able to) unless the screen is massive.
I pretty much agree with you entirely. It's not that graphics can't be improved it's just that I don't see people upgrading their TVs so soon when most HDTVs were purchased just a few years ago to take advantage of the PS3 and/or Blu Ray technology. It's just one generation ago(still current generation), I really feel bad for people who bought 3D TVs. People upgrade their PCs every few years anyway, but having to upgrade your TV too just as often? Forget it, I'm still using a standard CRT TV and have no plans to upgrade it in the near future. I'd rather spend all that money on new DVDs and watch them on what I already have.


Even if every last ounce of the PS3's power were devoted to a game running in 480i, it *still* wouldn't look like a real movie or TV show. Bump the resolution up to 720p or 1080p, and a lot of that horsepower is lost, making games look even *less* like real movies or TV shows.

So yeah, there's still room for improvement. I'm not saying video games *need* improved graphics, but technically there is still room. And it's not just about higher polygon counts. It's more advanced lighting/shading, shadows, animations, texturing, hair, physics, etc.
If video games ever got that realistic I think I'll avoid playing them entirely. I might as well just watch a live action movie instead. I actually enjoy watching animation more than live action because each piece can have it's own unique style, I don't complain that they don't look like real live people or animals or anything like that. Even with live action films, I tend to hate any with CGI which is what video games are becoming entirely. If people start complaing about Super Mario Bros because his jumps are too high for a real person and thus not realistic I'll switch hobbies.

[Rev. Link]

What about that report that came out a few weeks back from someone at Microsoft, talking about Durango? He said Durango would be about 6 times more powerful than the Xbox 360, and in turn that it would be about 20% more powerful than the Wii U.

So doesn't that make the Wii U roughly 5 times more powerful than the 360? (Forgive my sloppy math)

It would be pretty dumb for Nintendo to come out with a new system that's only as strong as what's already out. I know they've done some dumb things lately, but I can't picture this. Hell, back when the PSX came out, Nintendo leap-frogged everyone by jumping from 16 bit to 64 bit.

[Gamevet]

What about that report that came out a few weeks back from someone at Microsoft, talking about Durango? He said Durango would be about 6 times more powerful than the Xbox 360, and in turn that it would be about 20% more powerful than the Wii U.

So doesn't that make the Wii U roughly 5 times more powerful than the 360? (Forgive my sloppy math)

Do you have a source?

The last I've heard was that the Wii U was only slightly more powerful than the current 360 and PS3.


It would be pretty dumb for Nintendo to come out with a new system that's only as strong as what's already out. I know they've done some dumb things lately, but I can't picture this. Hell, back when the PSX came out, Nintendo leap-frogged everyone by jumping from 16 bit to 64 bit.

The bit wars have been pretty misleading. The Atari Jaguar was said to be 64-bit, but none of the software proved it to be superior to the Saturn or Playstation. The N64 may have been 64-bit, but very few titles showed that the system was superior to the Playstation or Saturn, especially when the cart format held back the potential of the hardware.

The Intellivision was a 16-bit system, but the software didn't look better than what was being offered on the 8-bit computers of that era.

[Rev. Link]

Do you have a source?



I don't have a link, but it was on IGN a few weeks back, back when Durango was first being talked about. I don't even think they were calling it Durango yet.

[duffmanth]

It'll probably just turn out to be another Nintendo system with the same franchises that Nintendo has been milking for 20 years and a bunch of third party shit games.

[Trumpman]

It'll probably just turn out to be another Nintendo system with the same franchises that Nintendo has been milking for 20 years and a bunch of third party shit games.

Yup, I got burned by the Wii but they're not going to fool me again.

[Griking]

It'll probably just turn out to be another Nintendo system with the same franchises that Nintendo has been milking for 20 years and a bunch of third party shit games.

This is what bugs me about new consoles and why I won't buy them right away.

[Rob2600]

The N64 may have been 64-bit, but very few titles showed that the system was superior to the Playstation or Saturn

I agree with you that "bits" are often misleading...BUT the N64 did have better graphics than its competition. Just one example: play any of the All-Star Baseball or NFL Quarterback Club N64 games and you'll immediately see a *huge* graphical improvement over the PlayStation and Saturn.

[Gamevet]

I agree with you that "bits" are often misleading...BUT the N64 did have better graphics than its competition. Just one example: play any of the All-Star Baseball or NFL Quarterback Club N64 games and you'll immediately see a *huge* graphical improvement over the PlayStation and Saturn.

Like I said, very few titles showed a huge advantage, especially those that had a lot of fog and horrible anti-aliasing. I thought Madden was much better on the N64, as was Ridge Racer. S.F. Rush 2049 (I hate that series) was better looking than the Playstation version, but Gran Turismo 2 was miles better than that title on any system.

[Rev. Link]

Yup, I got burned by the Wii but they're not going to fool me again.

I had thought the same way for a while, but then I went hunting for cheap Wii games to add to my collection and was surprised to find the system actually has a number of decent games. The thing that sucks is the crappy motion controls. Plus, tough to go back to SD graphics, but that's just nitpicking.

If you take some time and look, you can find a good handful of games that use the classic controller that are pretty good.

[Ryudo]

It'll probably just turn out to be another Nintendo system with the same franchises that Nintendo has been milking for 20 years and a bunch of third party shit games.

Is it true what they say? Ignorance is bliss?

[phantomfriar]

I believe the first 4k set went on sale a couple of years ago. Also there are receivers and devices that upconvert to 4k (or some semblance of it).

I do not think 4K is silly. If you have ever seen a true IMAX presentation at a museum for example (not the stuff at your local theatre) you can see a distinct improvement over anything in 1080p. I think it may take 4k to achieve that in the home. I also believe that when they are convert 'older' films to digitail they often go the 4k route for preservation (though 4k is a little overkill).

I think 4k will be the sweet spot for movies eventually, but I doubt games will get there as fast as film. PC monitors are overdue for an increase in resolution. For the longest time the only way to achieve a higher resolution has been to purchase a larger screen (generally speaking).

I think people would notice a difference in 4k. It would be similar to DVD versus Blu-Ray (some people don't see the difference). The material presented in 4K would have to be shot in 4K though. Why not 4K3D?

I've seen comments from people who have really studied 4K set-ups that stress most human beings will be unable to perceive any difference between 4K and standard HDTV unless your set is something like 70 inches and higher. So if you think the enhancement is going to be like DVD and Blu-Ray, I'd have to disagree with you.

Beyond that, HDTV sales have hit their plateau and failed to grow this past quarter for the first time. That shows for people who went from standard-definition to HDTV for the first time, that most of them have made that upgrade.

3DTV is like an added feature of new sets -- it's pretty clear from the numbers that 3D alone isn't driving mainstream consumers to upgrading AGAIN for a new TV. Look at how little content is actually available and selling. For that reason, I think 4K is going to be a niche-driven item for high-end users and nothing more for a long, long time to come. It's going to be costly for studios to do specific 4K scans of films unless it's a new movie when it can be done initially. Blu-Ray itself, while "successful," hasn't become the massive format-changer studios hoped it would, with some folks happy with their cable/sat/streaming options. Do you think 4K -- which is going to be even more costly and require yet ANOTHER hardware upgrade for the masses -- is going to be able to do what Blu-Ray hasn't? That's seriously, seriously doubtful. How 4K content is going to be delivered is another big issue another poster mentioned too.

As for the WiiU, I'm hesitant because personally I didn't get much use out of my Wii...but I think if the new PS and Xbox consoles truly DO shun used games or go digital-download-only, that could be a huge plus for Nintendo and a potential "game changer" for the WiiU. One thing's for sure: E3 is going to be very interesting this year, and hugely important for Nintendo.

[duffmanth]

Is it true what they say? Ignorance is bliss?

Hey man their last two consoles have been just that.

[phantomfriar]

Hey man their last two consoles have been just that.

And yet the Wii has managed to outsell every console on the market...have to give Nintendo credit at least for that. I wasn't crazy about the Wii, but for some consumers and especially families it was the console of choice this gen.

[Gamevet]

And yet the Wii has managed to outsell every console on the market...have to give Nintendo credit at least for that. I wasn't crazy about the Wii, but for some consumers and especially families it was the console of choice this gen.

Yeah, because most of the people that bought the console were ignorant about videogames.

I skipped the Wii, because I was not impressed with the shitty software, was tired of Mario and really didn't think the motion controller was anything worth getting excited about. I gave Nintendo 1 more chance after being burned by the N64 and even though the Gamecube was alright, the Wii needed to be a lot better than it. It wasn't, and I feel the Gamecube actually had a better selection of software than the (BC doesn't count) Wii.

[kedawa]

Wii has some great games in spite of the waggle, and not because of it. That's why I never got on board.
I can't think of a single high quality game on Wii that wouldn't have been better with traditional controls.
Most of the games I'm interested in can use the classic controller anyway, so they could have easily been Gamecube games.
Light gun games work ok, but not as well as they do with an actual light gun.
Despite being designed with the Wii motion controls in mind, Super Mario Galaxy controls better with a mouse.

At least the Wii U offers something that could actually improve gameplay or offer different usage scenarios.
It's not much, but the tablet screen is more exciting than waggle ever was.

[Ryudo]

So Wii has nothing right?


Ok I will just list the games I have want and look forward to.


A Boy and His Blob
de Blob
Endless Ocean
Endless Ocean: Blue World
Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon
Godfather, The: Blackhand Edition
Klonoa
Last Story, The [Limited Edition]
MadWorld
Mario Kart Wii
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Okami Capcom 2008
One Piece: Unlimited Adventure
Rygar: The Battle of Argus
Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing
Sonic Colors
Super Mario All-Stars: 25th Anniversary Edition
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Ultimate All-Stars
Xenoblade Chronicles [Classic Controller Pro Pack]
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure


Games I still plan to get for it.

Earthseeker
Captain Rainbow
Little Kings Story
Lost in Shadow
House of the dead overkill
Zangeki Reginleiv
Epic Mickey
Fatal Frame 4 (ther is an english patch)

Ones I have on Pre-order
Pandoras Tower

Ones coming out I look forward to
Epic Mickey 2
Dragon Quest X
Rhodea Sky Soldier
The Last Story US version
Xenoblade US version
Fatal Frame II


There is more than plenty on the system.


You can call me a fanboy if you want except I have 19 different consoles. I bet I have more Sega systems than anything else.

My friend who works at R* also a collector and good friend his fave system this gen is Wii.


The system has alot to offer but people live in ignorance and give it a bad rep when it doesn't deserve it.
I know I left soem names out like big Nintendo ones like Kirby,Mario Galaxyand Zelda as I don't have those nor have interest. Also shows it has more to offer.

[Gamevet]

So Wii has nothing right?


Ok I will just list the games I have want and look forward to.


A Boy and His Blob
de Blob
Endless Ocean
Endless Ocean: Blue World
Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon
Godfather, The: Blackhand Edition
Klonoa
Last Story, The [Limited Edition]
MadWorld
Mario Kart Wii
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Okami Capcom 2008
One Piece: Unlimited Adventure
Rygar: The Battle of Argus
Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing
Sonic Colors
Super Mario All-Stars: 25th Anniversary Edition
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Ultimate All-Stars
Xenoblade Chronicles [Classic Controller Pro Pack]
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure


Games I still plan to get for it.

Earthseeker
Captain Rainbow
Little Kings Story
Lost in Shadow
House of the dead overkill
Zangeki Reginleiv
Epic Mickey
Fatal Frame 4 (ther is an english patch)

Ones I have on Pre-order
Pandoras Tower

Ones coming out I look forward to
Epic Mickey 2
Dragon Quest X
Rhodea Sky Soldier
The Last Story US version
Xenoblade US version
Fatal Frame II


There is more than plenty on the system.


You can call me a fanboy if you want except I have 19 different consoles. I bet I have more Sega systems than anything else.

My friend who works at R* also a collector and good friend his fave system this gen is Wii.


The system has alot to offer but people live in ignorance and give it a bad rep when it doesn't deserve it.
I know I left soem names out like big Nintendo ones like Kirby,Mario Galaxyand Zelda as I don't have those nor have interest. Also shows it has more to offer.

I didn't say the Wii doesn't have good titles, it just didn't have a lot of good titles for the first couple of years. In a way, it's a lot like the N64, with the first couple of years being pretty bad.

I had bought my N64 at launch, played through Pilot Wings 64, Wave Race 64 and Mario 64, after that I had to wait awhile for Shadows of the Empire and Turok. It took about 2 years before a decent flow of good titles came out for the N64 and the same could be said for the Wii. If I had bought a Wii, it would have played out just like it did for the N64, with the other 2 consoles getting the lion's share of my gametime and the Wii getting dusted off every 3 months.

I've bought Sin & Punishment for $5. I'll probably buy several other titles (Bloom Blox looks interesting) should they have a good price. I just won't buy a Wii until I can get one for $50.

[j_factor]

I can't think of a single high quality game on Wii that wouldn't have been better with traditional controls.

Metroid Prime is a lot better with the Wii controller IMO, and the same goes for RE4.


Most of the games I'm interested in can use the classic controller anyway, so they could have easily been Gamecube games.

Most Xbox 360 games could easily have been Xbox games, just with a lower resolution and trimmed polygon counts. Not sure what that has to do with anything. The Gamecube died and people moved on. I was annoyed that Super Paper Mario was moved to Wii, but that's about it. I was also annoyed when Kameo was moved to 360, although the game ended up sucking anyway.


Light gun games work ok, but not as well as they do with an actual light gun.

But the PS3's "light gun" works the exact same way as the Wii controller, and Xbox 360 doesn't even have one.

[duffmanth]

And yet the Wii has managed to outsell every console on the market...have to give Nintendo credit at least for that. I wasn't crazy about the Wii, but for some consumers and especially families it was the console of choice this gen.

Well when your console is half the price of the competition, it's gonna sell huge. If Sony wasn't so fucking stupid when they released the PS3 at $600, the Wii still might have sold more than the PS3, but I don't think it would be as far ahead as it is? Hey I would love to see Nintendo release a console that had the awesome selection of games that the NES and SNES had, but their last 3 consoles have been huge disappointments to me at least.

[RPG_Fanatic]

Hey I would love to see Nintendo release a console that had the awesome selection of games that the NES and SNES had, but their last 3 consoles have been huge disappointments to me at least.

Well said. Nintendo hasn't done that good on the whole console thing since the SNES and I think the whole wave the controller sucks ass so I know I won't be buying the Wii U.

[Bojay1997]

Did you seriously cite Rygar and Godfather which are terrible ports as great Wii games? Seriously? Wow. I mean the Wii has some great games, but putting those two on the list really kills your credibility.


So Wii has nothing right?


Ok I will just list the games I have want and look forward to.


A Boy and His Blob
de Blob
Endless Ocean
Endless Ocean: Blue World
Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon
Godfather, The: Blackhand Edition
Klonoa
Last Story, The [Limited Edition]
MadWorld
Mario Kart Wii
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Okami Capcom 2008
One Piece: Unlimited Adventure
Rygar: The Battle of Argus
Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing
Sonic Colors
Super Mario All-Stars: 25th Anniversary Edition
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Ultimate All-Stars
Xenoblade Chronicles [Classic Controller Pro Pack]
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure


Games I still plan to get for it.

Earthseeker
Captain Rainbow
Little Kings Story
Lost in Shadow
House of the dead overkill
Zangeki Reginleiv
Epic Mickey
Fatal Frame 4 (ther is an english patch)

Ones I have on Pre-order
Pandoras Tower

Ones coming out I look forward to
Epic Mickey 2
Dragon Quest X
Rhodea Sky Soldier
The Last Story US version
Xenoblade US version
Fatal Frame II


There is more than plenty on the system.


You can call me a fanboy if you want except I have 19 different consoles. I bet I have more Sega systems than anything else.

My friend who works at R* also a collector and good friend his fave system this gen is Wii.


The system has alot to offer but people live in ignorance and give it a bad rep when it doesn't deserve it.
I know I left soem names out like big Nintendo ones like Kirby,Mario Galaxyand Zelda as I don't have those nor have interest. Also shows it has more to offer.

[kupomogli]

So Wii has nothing right?


Ok I will just list the games I have want and look forward to.


A Boy and His Blob
de Blob
Endless Ocean
Endless Ocean: Blue World
Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon
Godfather, The: Blackhand Edition
Klonoa
Last Story, The [Limited Edition]
MadWorld
Mario Kart Wii
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Okami Capcom 2008
One Piece: Unlimited Adventure
Rygar: The Battle of Argus
Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing
Sonic Colors
Super Mario All-Stars: 25th Anniversary Edition
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Ultimate All-Stars
Xenoblade Chronicles [Classic Controller Pro Pack]
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure


Games I still plan to get for it.

Earthseeker
Captain Rainbow
Little Kings Story
Lost in Shadow
House of the dead overkill
Zangeki Reginleiv
Epic Mickey
Fatal Frame 4 (ther is an english patch)

Ones I have on Pre-order
Pandoras Tower

Ones coming out I look forward to
Epic Mickey 2
Dragon Quest X
Rhodea Sky Soldier
The Last Story US version
Xenoblade US version
Fatal Frame II

So where are the good games?

[Ryudo]

So where are the good games?

Obvious troll is obvious

[Ryudo]

Did you seriously cite Rygar and Godfather which are terrible ports as great Wii games? Seriously? Wow. I mean the Wii has some great games, but putting those two on the list really kills your credibility.

Didn't say they were good. Just said I owned them. Even games I don;t like on any system I have I just tend to keep. For some reason I just can't sell or trade games. When I got them they were dirt cheap and was years ago.

[Griking]

I can't argue that the Wii didn't have some good games however it certainly had a much larger good game to shovel ware ratio than the other two consoles. What ever happened to the days of the Nintendo Seal of Quality?

[JSoup]

Yeah, because most of the people that bought the console were ignorant about videogames.

Or because they wanted to mod the thing for free games and fun times. Such as myself.

[Gamevet]

Or because they wanted to mod the thing for free games and fun times. Such as myself.

yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of the Wii consoles were sold to modders.

[Ryudo]

I can't argue that the Wii didn't have some good games however it certainly had a much larger good game to shovel ware ratio than the other two consoles. What ever happened to the days of the Nintendo Seal of Quality?

Common misconception.

It never really meant quality of the games. After all all those LJN games on NES. The seal was just something there to say back in the 80's these are official licensed Nintendo cartridges/Discs. Mainly as at that time after the crash of 83 was mainly because anyone could make a game for Atari. Nintendo avoided that trap. At the same time for years Nintendo was not friendly to 3rd parties. (Similar to Sony was not PSone-PS2 era) This lead as many developers to abandon Nintendo in favor of others. When Iwata took over he removed the "of quality" as it was a misconception. His mistake is being too loose with the policy. Why so much garbage.

[Gamevet]

I remember seeing the Wii version of the Barnum & Bailey Circus, while I was attending a show. I'm surprised there isn't a Kool-aid man game for the system, because it reminds me so much of the 2600 when everyone decided to make games for it.

[Griking]

Here's another article about not so impressed developers.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/game_developers_diss_wii_us_graphics_system_prefer _ps3_and_xbox_360

[duffmanth]

I can't argue that the Wii didn't have some good games however it certainly had a much larger good game to shovel ware ratio than the other two consoles. What ever happened to the days of the Nintendo Seal of Quality?

It got lost 20 years ago.

[Rob2600]

Here's another article about not so impressed developers.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/game_developers_diss_wii_us_graphics_system_prefer _ps3_and_xbox_360

Something tells me this anonymous "developer" is a Microsoft or Sony employee spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

[TonyTheTiger]

Honestly, I'd say that part of what hurt the Wii was the sterile Ikea presentation. Even great games could be hard to identify by a passerby. Nintendo arguably implied such when they made New Super Mario Bros. Wii bright red. I really don't think the Wii had a remarkably larger number of bad games when compared to older Nintendo consoles. It just seems that way because the store shelf looks like a sea of white boxes and generic text.

[Gamevet]

Honestly, I'd say that part of what hurt the Wii was the sterile Ikea presentation. Even great games could be hard to identify by a passerby. Nintendo arguably implied such when they made New Super Mario Bros. Wii bright red. I really don't think the Wii had a remarkably larger number of bad games when compared to older Nintendo consoles. It just seems that way because the store shelf looks like a sea of white boxes and generic text.

It's no different than the white packaging they use for the DS, and I believe most seem to think the DS has a solid library.

[Ryudo]

I recall last year at E3 someone said maybe a dev or Nintendo. That the hardware was not finalized yet and dev kits were out. Also that some dev kits were underclocked to help devs devlop for it quicker for launch titles. Last few months we have heard conflicting rumors to the power of this thing. That leads me to believe that Nintendo has sent out unfinished hardware and the specs vary from one dev to another.

Early DS kits were basically a GBA with two screens and a SNES controller. before they got the final hardware. Early Wii dev kits were Gamecube dev kits before getting the final hardware. So this must be the case.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's no different than the white packaging they use for the DS, and I believe most seem to think the DS has a solid library.

Which is weird since the DS has just as much shovelware as the Wii. Maybe it's because the DS is measured up to the PSP while the Wii has the 360 and PS3 to contend with? I really don't know. Just throwing it out there.

[kupomogli]

Which is weird since the DS has just as much shovelware as the Wii. Maybe it's because the DS is measured up to the PSP while the Wii has the 360 and PS3 to contend with? I really don't know. Just throwing it out there.

The difference between the DS and Wii is that the DS actually has way more than just a few good games. I'm at 80+ DS games, most of them very good. On the other hand, I own three Wii games, very few others I'm even interested in purchasing that aren't on other consoles already.

[j_factor]

The difference between the DS and Wii is that the DS actually has way more than just a few good games. I'm at 80+ DS games, most of them very good. On the other hand, I own three Wii games, very few others I'm even interested in purchasing that aren't on other consoles already.

You don't count.

[Gamevet]

Which is weird since the DS has just as much shovelware as the Wii. Maybe it's because the DS is measured up to the PSP while the Wii has the 360 and PS3 to contend with? I really don't know. Just throwing it out there.

Yeah, but the DS has a bunch of Dragon Quest games, several Zelda titles, Pokeman, Golden Sun, Professor Leyton (started on the DS), Pheonix Wright series, Mario & Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story, Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, Kirby's Canvas Curse, Scribblenauts, Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, Nintendogs, WarioWare: Touched, Radiant Historia, Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword, Plants Vs. Zombies, Kingdom Hearts RE: Coded, Mario Kart DS, Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days, Diddy Kong Racing, Mario Vs. Donkey Kong, Cooking Mama, Sonic Colors, Sonic Rush, Animal Crossing, Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, 9 persons-9 hours- 9 doors, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and countless other titles that are hard to keep up with.

The PSP is actually more popular in Japan and it's still a top 3 seller there. I own PSP, but I've been seriously thinking about getting a DS XL, because of just how many great titles the handheld has.

[Griking]

I think that both the DS and the Wii have tons of shovel-ware titles. I'm not saying that there haven't been a fair amount good games as well but it seems as if Nintendo has been willing to let anyone release any game for their systems lately where in the past it seemed like they were a lot pickier IMO. Now their consoles are flooded with flash game quality mini games, motion controlled dancing games and hundreds of uninspired kids games.

[Gameguy]

I think that both the DS and the Wii have tons of shovel-ware titles. I'm not saying that there haven't been a fair amount good games as well but it seems as if Nintendo has been willing to let anyone release any game for their systems lately where in the past it seemed like they were a lot pickier IMO. Now their consoles are flooded with flash game quality mini games, motion controlled dancing games and hundreds of uninspired kids games.
All of their previous systems were like that(most systems are like that unless they have a small library), it's just that the good games were more memorable so you don't pay attention to the bad games as much. Out of the 700+ NES games how many are worth playing? It's not the majority of them. The good games on the DS are also more memorable than the good Wii games, that's another reason why people are more forgiving with the DS.

[Ryudo]

You don't count.

I like this guy. Thumbs up!:)

[Rob2600]

Like I said, very few titles showed a huge advantage

Graphically (N64 vs. PS):

1080 Snowboarding > Cool Boarders
Wave Race 64 > Jet Moto
All-Star Baseball > Triple Play
NFL Quarterback Club > Gameday & Gameday
Rayman 2 > Rayman 2
Shadow Man > Shadow Man
Rainbow Six > Rainbow Six
WWF Warzone > WWF Warzone
WWF Attitude > WWF Attitude
Resident Evil 2 (in-game graphics) > Resident Evil 2
any N64 James Bond game > any PS James Bond game
any N64 Star Wars game > any PS Star Wars game
Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine > any PS Tomb Raider game
Conker's Bad Fur Day > any PS Crash Bandicoot or Spyro game
etc. etc.

So yeah, the N64 was definitely capable of better graphics than the PS.

[Bojay1997]

Graphically (N64 vs. PS):

1080 Snowboarding > Cool Boarders
Wave Race 64 > Jet Moto
All-Star Baseball > Triple Play
NFL Quarterback Club > Gameday & Gameday
Rayman 2 > Rayman 2
Shadow Man > Shadow Man
Rainbow Six > Rainbow Six
WWF Warzone > WWF Warzone
WWF Attitude > WWF Attitude
Resident Evil 2 (in-game graphics) > Resident Evil 2
any N64 James Bond game > any PS James Bond game
any N64 Star Wars game > any PS Star Wars game
Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine > any PS Tomb Raider game
Conker's Bad Fur Day > any PS Crash Bandicoot or Spyro game
etc. etc.

So yeah, the N64 was definitely capable of better graphics than the PS.

I actually own all but a few of those games on both platforms and I really don't agree with your analysis at all. The N64 is great at certain types of graphic effects while the Playstation is superior in others. Certainly, the fact that the Playstation was a disc based system allowed for much more efficient music and cut-scene storage. On the other hand, the N64 was great at rendering fairly detailed 3D environments. I think most people would be hard pressed to call the N64 superior graphically to the PSOne, especially when comparing the games you listed.