VITA owners UNITE!

[Oldskool]

I read that a huge percent of Vita owners already previously owned a PS3. After reading this I realized that I must be one of the few that have a Vita but no PS3. Am I doing things backwards? I think the appeal of the Vita to PS3 owners is the cross-play feature - and that would explain why so many PS3 owners get a Vita. I personally got it because it looked like an absolutely amazing handheld (which it is). I don't even know if I will ever own a PS3, I am pretty happy with my Xbox 360.

Is there any other Vita owners here that do not own a PS3? What was your appeal to the Vita?

Personally I think the Vita is an amazing handheld, I am floored by it. It's that good. It's hard to impress me when it comes to games, but the Vita does that. I don't understand everyone's grief with it. Yeah the price is a little high but is it? Hell I payed about the same amount for my Nomad when it first came out. I'm sure the price will drop soon as well.

Also I don't understand people's complaints about the game selection. It seems to me there are games coming out for it quickly enough, whether on store shelves, through the Playstation Store, or with all the PSP and PS1 ports. There are literally hundreds of games you can play on it, RIGHT NOW. I think a lot of the people that complain about it are the younger generation that are used to 20 games or more being released on a system per month. When I was growing up playing Genesis or SNES and NES games if 5-10 games came out in one month that was considered pretty good. I think the younger generation of gamers are getting spoiled with millions of releases for consoles. But the reality of it is - is anyone really going to play all the games, and have the time to go through and beat every one of them anyways? I just feel like people expect way too much out of a console these days. If the Vita got 5 games a month I would be perfectly ok with that. I can only handle so many games - I'm just one person.

That aside, I am very satisfied with the games currently available, they are pretty much ALL quality titles, the quality of games ratio seems about as good as the Turbografx. Nearly every game released for it is very good or at least good. So far I have not run into a game that I feel is complete crap on the Vita.

I know this sounds like a rant, but I am ranting FOR the Vita! What's gonna happen is the media and everyone is complaining about sales, lack of games, price, etc etc - and it's going to be a catalyst and then there really will be a problem. If people would just pick one up and try it and maybe even take the plunge I think it would get the rep that it deserves.

Also, I think people are underestimating how popular it's going to be. It may be slow to start but I have a feeling it's going to be quite a success.

You know, I was looking at the game selection of the 3DS and the Vita at my local Walmart and Target, and honestly the 3DS didn't seem to have much more games on the shelve. Not only that, but pretty much all of the 3DS games looked like crap while the Vita games all looked awesome.

VITA owners - what are your thoughts on this awesome console (I mean handheld that plays like a freakin' PS3)? I think it's going to be a hot item this Christmas. If people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for an iPhone5 and things like an iPad I don't see why anyone should hesitate paying half that for an AWESOME handheld that would blow away any games on any tablet or mobile phone.

[Emperor Megas]

I think the appeal of the Vita to PS3 owners is the cross-play feature - and that would explain why so many PS3 owners get a Vita.

What's the cross-play feature?

[Blitzwing256]

I've put 100s of hours into my vita, awesome system with an amazing screen.
Modern gamers are generally a bunch of whiny bitches who complain about everything under the sun.
Disgaea 3 alone has consumed most of those hours, but with all the psn games, ps1 classics (no load time!) and new games coming out all the time, it's now getting more use then my shitty 3ds would ever have dreamed possible.

[kupomogli]

What's the cross-play feature?

Unavailable for most games, but the ability to play some games online on the Vita against PS3 owners. Wipeout 2048 and Playstation All Stars Battle Royale are the only two I know of. With Wipeout, it's its own game so has all of its own tracks, and it also comes with three or four tracks of HD which are the only ones that can play against PS3 owners who own HD. It was around six months later that they released HD/Fury add on content that allowed you to download the DLC to play the rest of the tracks, so if you have that, then you can play all tracks against PS3 owners, and if you owned the PS3 versions of those games already, the DLC is free.

Dragon's Crown for PS3/Vita should also support cross-play as well.

-

Having already have owned a PSP, hundreds of PSX games, and being against digital, none of the digital content on the Vita really does anything for me. Because really you get what you pay for, atleast for the most part. There are two digital games I'm interested in picking up at some point. Aqua Kitty and Retro City Rampage.

When it comes to big release Vita titles, like Oldskool mentioned, almost all of them are good or very good. I say almost, because out of all the Vita games or demos of games I've played, the only two that I've played that are piece of sh** games are Little Deviants and Dynasty Warriors. A lot of games do add forced touch screen/touch panel functionality, something you would have seen on a lot of early DS titles, but most developers use it very well, so it's not much of a problem. Uncharted is probably the only game where it's an annoyance because of all the touch screen crap when finding secrets.

I'll also agree with the Vita having better games than the 3DS. The 3DS has so many more games, but there are fewer good releases. The last few couple games that have came out that I've been interested in are New Super Mario Bros 2, Code of Princess, and Resident Evil Revelations. I don't own Code of Princess yet, but I'll be getting it once it gets a sale. It won't be until March of next year that I'll get anything else, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, and by that time, I'll have gotten Ragnarok Odyssey, Assassin's Creed 3 Liberation, and Playstation All Stars.

I also have emulated custom firmware on my Vita for right now, but honestly. I was thinking. I have my PSP. What's the point. So next update on the Vita, I'm not going to care whether or not the exploit gets disabled, since it's too much of a hassle to transfer stuff over to the Vita in comparison to the PSP when it can only do the same thing as a fat PSP(PSP emulation lacks the ram the slim PSP has.)

Anyways. My favorite games on the Vita.

Wipeout 2048 with the Wipeout HD/Fury Add On content. One of the greatest racing games ever made.
Little Big Planet Vita. An amazing game on its own, but also includes a creation tool with new levels being posted on an almost daily basis. While Little Deviants was a terrible game, one LBP level replicates the only good level that Little Deviants had to offer. The one level where you jump out of a helicopter and free fall collecting things and going in the point circles until you parachute when close to the ground. The LBP level also uses tilt control to control where you're moving to on screen while you free fall.
Unit 13. Mission based Call of Duty like game. It's got a score system for each mission giving you incentive to replay the mission and try for a higher score.
Gravity Rush. Still have played only the demo, but it's an amazing experience. I'm still waiting for a price drop or trying to find a sale since it's been out for so long before I tried the game. I know one is coming soon.

[RCM]

VITA owners - what are your thoughts on this awesome console (I mean handheld that plays like a freakin' PS3)? I think it's going to be a hot item this Christmas. If people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for an iPhone5 and things like an iPad I don't see why anyone should hesitate paying half that for an AWESOME handheld that would blow away any games on any tablet or mobile phone.

Unless things change (price cut, great exclusives) this may be Vita's last holiday season. I love the actual hardware, but console ports, a lack of exclusive killer apps, and shovelware along with a high price for hardware and memory cards isn't doing the system favors.

I'd say the criticism is largely warranted and I like Vita.

[kupomogli]

Unless things change (price cut, great exclusives) this may be Vita's last holiday season. I love the actual hardware, but console ports, a lack of exclusive killer apps, and shovelware along with a high price for hardware and memory cards isn't doing the system favors.

I'd say the criticism is largely warranted and I like Vita.

Most of these "console ports" you speak of aren't really "ports." They're multiconsole. When the game comes out at the same time, it's multiconsole. When it comes out afterwards. It's a port. The Vita has some ports for sure, but most of what everyone is calling ports aren't ports at all.

Also where is all this shovelware you speak of? There's no shovelware when it comes to retail releases and I don't know anyone who would expect most digital games to be worth a damn.

[duffmanth]

The $250 price of the Vita is fine by me, it's the price of the memory cards and lack of games that interest me personally that's keeping me from getting one right now.

[Bojay1997]

Most of these "console ports" you speak of aren't really "ports." They're multiconsole. When the game comes out at the same time, it's multiconsole. When it comes out afterwards. It's a port. The Vita has some ports for sure, but most of what everyone is calling ports aren't ports at all.

Also where is all this shovelware you speak of? There's no shovelware when it comes to retail releases and I don't know anyone who would expect most digital games to be worth a damn.

I think you don't understand the concept of a port. A port has less to do with timing of the release and more to do with the source material. There are many games that are available on multiple platforms that may share the same name and basic source material, but are in fact different games completely. There are also games that are ported from one platform to another but are released in close time proximity. A port is just an adaptation of a piece of software for a particular platform rather than starting completely from scratch. In this era, developers typically choose one platform as the lead and then use various middleware tools to port that code to the other platforms. ACIII on the Vita is not a port, it's a completely different game. Rayman Origins on the Vita is clearly a port. As such, there are quite a few "ports" on the Vita, although many of them have enhancements from the console or handheld software from which they have been adapted.

[Bojay1997]

Most of these "console ports" you speak of aren't really "ports." They're multiconsole. When the game comes out at the same time, it's multiconsole. When it comes out afterwards. It's a port. The Vita has some ports for sure, but most of what everyone is calling ports aren't ports at all.

Also where is all this shovelware you speak of? There's no shovelware when it comes to retail releases and I don't know anyone who would expect most digital games to be worth a damn.

You don't think games like Dungeon Hunter Alliance or Spy Hunter are shovelware? Admittedly the shovelware hasn't been as bad as the Wii or 3DS, but it's still there without a doubt.

[RCM]

Most of these "console ports" you speak of aren't really "ports." They're multiconsole. When the game comes out at the same time, it's multiconsole. When it comes out afterwards. It's a port. The Vita has some ports for sure, but most of what everyone is calling ports aren't ports at all.

Also where is all this shovelware you speak of? There's no shovelware when it comes to retail releases and I don't know anyone who would expect most digital games to be worth a damn.

Off the top of my head I would class stuff like Rayman Origins, Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, and Street Fighter X Tekken as ports. Solid games, but ports all the same (by your definition). I'd like exclusive stuff of the same quality, not ports.

I use shovelware as a broad term for product I simply don't like or don't find compelling. Shovelware is a subjective term anyway. Even the solid ports I mentioned fall into this to an extent in the sense that they aren't a compelling reason for *me* to own the system. I'm far from alone on that...

[RCM]

I think you don't understand the concept of a port. A port has less to do with timing of the release and more to do with the source material. There are many games that are available on multiple platforms that may share the same name and basic source material, but are in fact different games completely. There are also games that are ported from one platform to another but are released in close time proximity. A port is just an adaptation of a piece of software for a particular platform rather than starting completely from scratch. In this era, developers typically choose one platform as the lead and then use various middleware tools to port that code to the other platforms. ACIII on the Vita is not a port, it's a completely different game. Rayman Origins on the Vita is clearly a port. As such, there are quite a few "ports" on the Vita, although many of them have enhancements from the console or handheld software from which they have been adapted.

This too...

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I like my Vita a lot.

I think that the system is showing signs of getting out of a very prolonged first year full of growing pains.

Personally I've been playing it almost daily since they went live with PSOne classics (just using that as a jumping-off point for increased usage, I'm not strictly playing PSOne games on it, though I am doing that too).

I don't think that the future of the Vita is AS grim as some are presently predicting. I think Sony has a penchant for supporting hardware through lean LEAN times, and they'll figure something out for Vita in the future.

If this isn't occurring already behind the scenes with developers, I'm thinking that it might get some WiiU type functionality with PS3 games as an initiative once the WiiU launches, leading to Sony even having a PS3 bundle with a Vita.

Also, I don't even think it needs as much of a hardware price drop as it needs one for the proprietary memory cards.

I'm a very pro-digitial-download kinda guy and when I'm hampered by storage limitations on my device, I hesitate on spending money on digital content. If I could afford the larger memory cards, I'd spend more on the PSN store and even buy the full-fledged games digital at launch.

[Leo_A]

Unless things change (price cut, great exclusives) this may be Vita's last holiday season. I love the actual hardware, but console ports, a lack of exclusive killer apps, and shovelware along with a high price for hardware and memory cards isn't doing the system favors.

That's nonsense, there's zero chance that the Vita is going away anytime soon.

The 3DS also went through a rough opening stretch but things are starting to look up compared to just ten or eleven months ago. There's several major releases now available with several in the pipeline and it's starting to build some significant momentum.

I see no reason why in a year or so that the Vita won't be enjoying a similar position of excitement and growth at the same point in its lifecycle. They both got off to unfortunate slow starts, but it's foolish to be predicting the imminent demise of something that is still a fair ways away from even celebrating its first birthday anywhere in the world (And 1/3 of a year away in the United States).

[RCM]

That's nonsense, there's zero chance that the Vita is going away anytime soon.

The 3DS also went through a rough opening stretch but things are starting to look up compared to just ten or eleven months ago. There's several major releases now available with several in the pipeline and it's starting to build some significant momentum.

I see no reason why in a year or so that the Vita won't be enjoying a similar position of excitement and growth at the same point in its lifecycle. They both got off to unfortunate slow starts, but it's foolish to be predicting the imminent demise of something that is still a fair ways away from even celebrating its first birthday anywhere in the world (And 1/3 of a year away in the United States).

Is it nonsense?

Vita sales have been lackluster in all major markets and it hasn't been selling a lot of software. Third party developers aren't flocking to it either. I wasn't so bold to say this *will* be the Vita's last holiday and you probably should've considered the facts before you stated there's zero chance it won't be. Sony isn't the company it was when it green lit Vita and the game market isn't nearly the same either. On top of that, Sony is worried about this system and rightfully so.

3DS got a lift due to aggressive price drops and bundles, especially during the Holiday season. But Nintendo hasn't totally turned the tides. According to the latest reports (Example: http://www.edge-online.com/news/nintendo-takes-another-loss-but-shows-signs-of-recovery-as-new-super-mario-bros-2-sells-3m/) they're still taking a loss.

What I was saying is that for Vita to improve it needs compelling content along with a compelling price. Is that really nonsense?

[Bojay1997]

Is it nonsense?

Vita sales have been lackluster in all major markets and it hasn't been selling a lot of software. Third party developers aren't flocking to it either. I wasn't so bold to say this *will* be the Vita's last holiday and you probably should've considered the facts before you stated there's zero chance it won't be. Sony isn't the company it was when it green lit Vita and the game market isn't nearly the same either. On top of that, Sony is worried about this system and rightfully so.

3DS got a lift due to aggressive price drops and bundles, especially during the Holiday season. But Nintendo hasn't totally turned the tides. According to the latest reports (Example: http://www.edge-online.com/news/nintendo-takes-another-loss-but-shows-signs-of-recovery-as-new-super-mario-bros-2-sells-3m/) they're still taking a loss.

What I was saying is that for Vita to improve it needs compelling content along with a compelling price. Is that really nonsense?

I normally don't agree with doom and gloom predictions, but Sony itself has been very clear that it has been disappointed with the Vita's sales performance and lack of third party support.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/178437/PlayStation_Vitas_biggest_challenge_Convincing_dev elopers.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+Ne ws%29#.UGhe8xhNCu5

While I don't think this will be its last holiday season, if something doesn't change drastically, I doubt it will be around as long as the PSP was. The competition from other mobile gaming devices like smartphones and iPads and presumably the new iPad mini is making handheld gaming a tougher and tougher business model. Selling a $250 gaming device that isn't also a smartphone or a particularly good web surfing or more general media player device is tough in any economy, let alone one that is still recovering from such a damaging worldwide crisis.

[RCM]

I normally don't agree with doom and gloom predictions, but Sony itself has been very clear that it has been disappointed with the Vita's sales performance and lack of third party support.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/178437/PlayStation_Vitas_biggest_challenge_Convincing_dev elopers.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+Ne ws%29#.UGhe8xhNCu5

While I don't think this will be its last holiday season, if something doesn't change drastically, I doubt it will be around as long as the PSP was. The competition from other mobile gaming devices like smartphones and iPads and presumably the new iPad mini is making handheld gaming a tougher and tougher business model. Selling a $250 gaming device that isn't also a smartphone or a particularly good web surfing or more general media player device is tough in any economy, let alone one that is still recovering from such a damaging worldwide crisis.

I wasn't trying to antagonize anyone in terms of 3DS' or Vita's somewhat gloomy outlook, but the industry is clearly shifting to other devices. I've heard several major publishers privately state the future is not with the traditional industry. Look at where they're investing and developing now. I tend to agree with them, but I don't think we'll see traditional games and systems go away any time soon.

[Leo_A]

I wasn't so bold to say this *will* be the Vita's last holiday and you probably should've considered the facts before you stated there's zero chance it won't be.

I never said you said it will happen. You said it could happen. Hence my disagreement since I see zero chance it could outside of Sony itself failing.

You're stretching things about as far as you can in making a claim that the Vita could possibly disappear next year and acting like it's more than just a crazy outside chance that's just theoritically possible. Predictions don't come much more outlandish these days in videogaming than stating that a major console/handheld manufacturer that has a major stake in just about every electronics/media business there is out there is suddenly going to discontinue a major system at age 1 just because it was a bit slow out of the gate.

The only way it could possibly happen were to be if Sony itself implodes and the company disappears or they have to take drastic measures to trim most of the company off in a last ditch attempt to save something out of the rubble with the Vita being a victim.


Sony isn't the company it was when it green lit Vita and the game market isn't nearly the same either.

I think if you were to actually check the facts, Sony's corporate issues go back well over half a decade. Their situation hasn't changed that drastically over the past three or four years.


On top of that, Sony is worried about this system and rightfully so.

I really doubt they ever said anything of the sort. I've seen quotes expressing some disatisfaction with where they currently are with it. But nothing that suggests that they're anything but confident that it's in for a successful life when all is said and done.

And if they did, I'm sure they'd be fighting harder. For instance if they really thought that, there's no way that they'd be all but silent during E3 just a few months after launch. Instead what I witnessed to me suggests that Sony expected and was prepared for the thing to have a slow opening few months.

If anything shocked them, I bet it has been Japan's reluctance to leave their beloved PSP behind and upgrade. And I doubt they're losing any sleep over a slow start in a territory that was never that huge of a market to begin with that has been in a decline for years where videogaming is concerned.


3DS got a lift due to aggressive price drops and bundles, especially during the Holiday season. But Nintendo hasn't totally turned the tides. According to the latest reports (Example: http://www.edge-online.com/news/nintendo-takes-another-loss-but-shows-signs-of-recovery-as-new-super-mario-bros-2-sells-3m/) they're still taking a loss.

People that like making bold predictions like how we're nearing a new crash, that console's are going away, that handhelds are going away, that AAA games are going extinct, that we're going to an all streaming model in the near future, that physical media is going to disappear years before internet infrastructure would be anywhere close to making it viable, were still regularly making such claims about the 3DS earlier this year almost before the plastic had even had a chance to cool on the first unit manufactured last year. Instead the 3DS is nearing the end of 2012 on an uptick with what appears to be a promising future. And certainly premature death has ceased to be something people bring up (as if it was ever a real concern).

And be aware that Nintendo is more than just a handheld company. I suspect if I were to investigate their latest financial reports that I'd see most of the reasons why they're in their current financial situation being directed towards the slow start the 3DS enjoyed, poor performance of their legacy systems, financial market issues out of their control like currency exchange rates, and it having been almost absent in the console world for an extended period until next month's Wii U launch.

I suspect that they're pretty pleased at where the 3DS is now.


What I was saying is that for Vita to improve it needs compelling content along with a compelling price. Is that really nonsense?

No, but that's also not what you stated that I called nonsense.

[RCM]

You weren't so bold when you stated that? You're stretching things about as far as you can in making that claim. Predictions don't come much more bold these days than stating that a major console/handheld manufacturer that has a major stake in just about every electronics/media business there is is going to discontinue a major system at age 1.

The only way it could possibly happen were to be if Sony itself implodes and the company disappears or they have to take drastic measures to trim most of the company off in a last ditch attempt to save something out of the rubble with the Vita being a victim.



I think if you were to actually check the facts, Sony's corporate issues go back well over half a decade. Their situation hasn't changed that drastically over the past three or four years.



I really doubt they ever said anything of the sort. I've seen quotes expressing some disatisfaction with where they currently are with it. But nothing that suggests that they're anything but confident that it's in for a successful life when all is said and done.

And if they did, I'm sure they'd be fighting harder. For instance if they really thought that, there's no way that they'd be all but silent during E3 just a few months after launch. Instead what I witnessed to me suggests that Sony expected and was prepared for the thing to have a slow opening few months.

If anything shocked them, I bet it has been Japan's reluctance to leave their beloved PSP behind and upgrade. And I doubt they're losing any sleep over a slow start in a territory that was never that huge of a market to begin with that has been in a decline for years where videogaming is concerned.



People that like making bold predictions like how we're nearing a new crash, that console's are going away, that handhelds are going away, that AAA games are going extinct, that we're going to an all streaming model in the near future, that physical media is going to disappear years before internet infrastructure would be anywhere close to making it viable, were still regularly making such claims about the 3DS earlier this year almost before the plastic had even had a chance to cool on the first unit manufactured last year. Instead the 3DS is nearing the end of 2012 on an uptick with what appears to be a promising future. And certainly premature death has ceased to be something people bring up (as if it was ever a real concern).

And be aware that Nintendo is more than just a handheld company. I suspect if I were to investigate their latest financial reports that I'd see most of the reasons why they're in their current financial situation being directed towards the slow start the 3DS enjoyed, poor performance of their legacy systems, financial market issues out of their control like currency exchange rates, and it having been almost absent in the console world for an extended period until next month's Wii U launch.

I suspect that they're pretty pleased at where the 3DS is now.



No, but that's also not what you stated that I called nonsense.

I stand by my comments, but thanks for stopping by.

[Bojay1997]

People that like making bold predictions like how we're nearing a new crash, that console's are going away, that handhelds are going away, that AAA games are going extinct, that we're going to an all streaming model in the near future, that physical media is going to disappear years before internet infrastructure would be anywhere close to making it viable, were still regularly making such claims about the 3DS earlier this year almost before the plastic had even had a chance to cool on the first unit manufactured last year. Instead the 3DS is nearing the end of 2012 on an uptick with what appears to be a promising future. And certainly premature death has ceased to be something people bring up (as if it was ever a real concern).



Two years ago I would have fully agreed with you, but I now believe there is no doubt that the video gaming industry is changing (note, not crashing) and it is pretty inevitable that physical media and mid-budget niche titles are going to be the first casualties. Heck, the new iMac doesn't even come with an optical drive. I also don't see a viable path for handhelds 4-5 years from now, especially when I see lots of eight year old kids with iPhones and iPads and other devices.

[kupomogli]

I think you don't understand the concept of a port. A port has less to do with timing of the release and more to do with the source material. There are many games that are available on multiple platforms that may share the same name and basic source material, but are in fact different games completely. There are also games that are ported from one platform to another but are released in close time proximity. A port is just an adaptation of a piece of software for a particular platform rather than starting completely from scratch. In this era, developers typically choose one platform as the lead and then use various middleware tools to port that code to the other platforms. ACIII on the Vita is not a port, it's a completely different game. Rayman Origins on the Vita is clearly a port. As such, there are quite a few "ports" on the Vita, although many of them have enhancements from the console or handheld software from which they have been adapted.

There are "ports" and "ports." Most PS3 games are 360 ports, yes, which you've explained, but what most people mean when they say "port" is just a rerelease. It's called a homonym.

[Bojay1997]

There are "ports" and "ports." Most PS3 games are 360 ports, yes, which you've explained, but what most people mean when they say "port" is just a rerelease. It's called a homonym.

I don't know about most people, but when the term "port" is used in the video game industry, it has a pretty specific meaning and it's not how you have defined it.

[Leo_A]

Two years ago I would have fully agreed with you, but I now believe there is no doubt that the video gaming industry is changing (note, not crashing) and it is pretty inevitable that physical media and mid-budget niche titles are going to be the first casualties.

We've been seeing the decline in games that you could categorize between budget and AAA for years now (It's why space shooters are gone, traditional rally racer's are almost gone, and countless other genres and franchises that used to enjoy healthy fringe lifes in this industry are gone). But I'm still far away from believing it could go away.

If anything the longer generation we're now in, the time developers have had to become used to HD, and the growth in a few licensable engines that dominate much of the industry is going to help matters. It's pretty widely held that ballooning game development cost such as the adoption of HD were greatly responsible for this decline we saw this generation in particular when developers could no longer afford to go after smaller subsections of this industry when expected revenues and profits weren't rising in tune with cost. So the more that happens to help stabilize things is just going to help matters rather than hurt them if revenues have a chance to do a bit of catching up so you don't need a runaway hit just to make money from a project with a healthy sized budget.

But that's not what I said. An increasingly number of people are now jumping off the deep end and proclaiming that AAA game development is an endangered species and that gaming in the future is going to be dominated by Angry Birds style experiences...

And while I subscribe to it being inevitable that physical media is endangered, it's still going to require internet infrastructure to be in a certain state before it really becomes a possibility for the handheld and console world (Among a range of other things that have to gradually happen as well for it to be smoothly accepted). The fact that things like bandwidth caps are becoming more common and that many people are getting close to hitting them just by being an avid user of streamed standard definition video content from places like Netflix should suggests that the capacity for an all download future for videogaming is still quite some ways off.

Yet we still get the nuts that suggest everytime when we get even a hint of a rumor of a console revision that Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft will be doing it without an optical drive for existing platforms. And the same with upcoming platforms including the Wii U.

The fact of the matter is the infrastructure to allow it just isn't in place yet and won't be for quite sometime. So that's our physical media guarantee for the next few years and at least through this upcoming console generation. I'm really quite sure it's not going to be this switch they just hit like some people seem to expect. There's no way we're going to go from physical game distribution being their primary distrbituion system one generation to being nonexistent the next.


Heck, the new iMac doesn't even come with an optical drive.

Computers are an entirely different matter. Consumers themselves have been abandoning optical drives in the computer world for years, file sizes are often reasonable enough for many programs where it's not a real problem even with bandwidth caps to download many programs, etc. And the convenience of Steam and the many inconveniences publishers like Ubisoft always seem to be placing upon their physical PC game releases has driven many devotees of PC gaming gradually towards downloads.

And it hasn't been an overnight transition. It has been a long and gradual one with a long road ahead before 100% downloading and no optical drives becomes commonplace. And I expect the console world to do likewise. We saw the birth of digital distribution in the previous generation, we saw it grow into a practical and important secondary form of distribution with this current generation, and I expect we'll see it be on a equal footing with physical this upcoming generation (where it's confirmed on the Wii U and all but a guarantee on the Xbox 720 and Playstation 4).

Then, I'm even willing to wager that physical media will have at least one more run out of the gate in the console world afterwards as a secondary distribution method while they convert the large minority that hasn't yet fully embraced downloading (With optical drives perhaps even being optional add-ons or nonstandard across all SKU's).


I also don't see a viable path for handhelds 4-5 years from now, especially when I see lots of eight year old kids with iPhones and iPads and other devices.

I think there will still be a place for handheld gaming devices dedicated to playing games.

Of course I think the large section that traditionally went this route for portability will continue to shift towards devices they're already taking with them that can do a multitude of other tasks in addition to gaming. But many gamers playing handhelds never took them out of the house and appreciate the advantages for gaming that a dedicated system provides. Just witness the popularity of tv/out options in the past for some evidence of that segment of handheld gamer's being significant

Handhelds don't necessarily equate to portability. I suspect many a 3DS and Vita has never even left home and that segment isn't going to go away. I'm sure the days of 100-150 million handhelds is part of the past, but I see no reason why these two handhelds and future handhelds can't pull console like install bases.


I stand by my comments, but thanks for stopping by.

As do I...

It won't be long if you're right before we hear about many publishers jumping ship, hardware manufacturing being discontinued, hardware and software disappearing from stores, etc.

Yet somehow I think I'll be able to walk into any retailer that carries videogames six months or a year from now and buy a new Vita and buy games from a selection of new releases. ;)

[RCM]

As do I...

It won't be long if you're right before we hear about many publishers jumping ship, hardware manufacturing being discontinued, hardware and software disappearing from stores, etc.

Yet somehow I think I'll be able to walk into any retailer that carries videogames a six months or a year from now and buy a new Vita and buy games from a selection of new releases. ;)

Just keep ignoring what I originally stated...

[kupomogli]

I don't know about most people, but when the term "port" is used in the video game industry, it has a pretty specific meaning and it's not how you have defined it.

Rarely does anyone use the term port for its intended purpose. It's very commonly used as rereleasing the game over on another console after its original release. Why the term "enhanced port" then, since additional content is added and it's not exactly a port then is it?

Even with all the shitty 360 to PS3 ports we get, people don't ever use the term port when describing a multiconsole game. It's always used about a game that is being ported over to a device at a later time.


The issue that happened with PSP is we got overrun with ports. It became very difficult for us to define what made PSP unique. The content development became a bit unstructured or decentralised, in that we got a lot of content that was on PlayStation 2 and got thrown over to the handheld

Seems like John Kohler's using the term just as I described it.

[Leo_A]

I stand by my comments [About the Vita being at risk of not seeing a second Christmas season]
It won't be long if you're right before we hear about many publishers jumping ship, hardware manufacturing being discontinued, hardware and software disappearing from stores, etc.

Yet somehow I think I'll be able to walk into any retailer that carries videogames six months or a year from now and buy a new Vita and buy games from a selection of new releases. ;)
Just keep ignoring what I originally stated...

Was I?




Unless things change (price cut, great exclusives) this may be Vita's last holiday season.
That's nonsense, there's zero chance that the Vita is going away anytime soon.

Is it nonsense?

I largely agree with you. Sony needs to be doing better with the Vita, they've gotten off to a slow start, and this market itself isn't what it once was and is providing them with extra challenges as a result.

But worst case scenario, this thing struggles along for several years being a disappointment before discontinuation. Failure is an option but a disappearance in 2013 simply isn't. That suggestion that it could go away in the next few months is all I ever was contesting and you did state it.

Unless Sony itself implodes, the Sony Vita will still be on store shelfs a year from now with new hardware and games still being produced. It's not at any risk of disappearing anytime soon.

[RCM]

@Leo. Here's my original statement:

"Unless things change (price cut, great exclusives) this may be Vita's last holiday season."

Nowhere does it say PS Vita *won't* be around next Holiday. Get it?

[Leo_A]

I never suggested that you ever said that it absolutely won't be here for Christmas 2013. But you're stating that it's a legitimate possibility that it might not make it.

And that's what I was contesting. Disappearance next year isn't in the cards unless Sony itself dies. And as far as I know despite a rocky road over the past few years, that doesn't seem to be a possibility anytime soon.

But I suppose we could always wake up tomorrow with a shock. That's how Penn Central went 40 years ago after the CEO and board had spent several years trying to hide the truth before it simply became impossible and the world saw its largest bankruptcy in history up to that time. I suppose even in today's tightened corporate world that a large company like Sony could be far worse off than they appear to the outside world and could be the next Penn Central, Enron, etc.

[RCM]

I never suggested that you ever said that it absolutely won't be here for Christmas 2013. But you're stating that it's a real possibility that it might not make it.

And that's what I was contesting. Disappearance next year isn't in the cards unless Sony itself dies. And as far as I know despite a rocky road over the past few years, that doesn't seem to be a possibility anytime soon.

But I suppose we could always wake up tomorrow with a shock. That's how Penn Central went 40 years ago after the CEO and board had spent several years trying to hide the truth. I suppose even in today's tightened corporate world that a large company like Sony could be far worse off than they appear to the outside world.

"Rocky Road" is a diplomatic way of putting it. They reported a $6.4 billion dollar loss earlier this year: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/11/business/global/sony-revises-expected-loss-to-6-4-billion.html?_r=0. Sony as a whole is not doing well and they are dabbling with the app market with their PS Mobile initiative. It's smart and a way to continue competing in the mobile market. With Sony continuing to take losses it is a real possibility that they could decide to cut under performing platforms like Vita or let them die slow deaths like PS Move. They'd still have PS Mobile to fall back on, at least.

[Gamevet]

"Rocky Road" is a diplomatic way of putting it. They reported a $6.4 billion dollar loss earlier this year: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/11/business/global/sony-revises-expected-loss-to-6-4-billion.html?_r=0. Sony as a whole is not doing well and they are dabbling with the app market with their PS Mobile initiative. It's smart and a way to continue competing in the mobile market. With Sony continuing to take losses it is a real possibility that they could decide to cut under performing platforms like Vita or let them die slow deaths like PS Move. They'd still have PS Mobile to fall back on, at least.

It's not Sony's videogame division that is posting those losses though. They've lost a huge amount of market share in the television market, that they once dominated.

[Bojay1997]

It's not Sony's videogame division that is posting those losses though. They've lost a huge amount of market share in the television market, that they once dominated.

You are 100% incorrect. The Consumer Products and Services Division which houses the Playstation as well as television unit posted a substantial portion of this loss. Sony specifically cited the cost of price cuts for its Playstation 3 hardware and increased marketing costs for Playstation as factors in the loss. Were losses due to declining TV market share a factor and possibly a larger proportion of the loss? Absolutely. That doesn't mean the Playstation division was profitable or not a part of the loss.

[Gamevet]

You are 100% incorrect. The Consumer Products and Services Division which houses the Playstation as well as television unit posted a substantial portion of this loss. Sony specifically cited the cost of price cuts for its Playstation 3 hardware and increased marketing costs for Playstation as factors in the loss. Were losses due to declining TV market share a factor and possibly a larger proportion of the loss? Absolutely. That doesn't mean the Playstation division was profitable or not a part of the loss.

According to the article it isn't.


Mr. Kato said that tepid sales of TVs, especially in the United States, Sony’s biggest market, were hurting profitability most at the manufacturer. But he also blamed the strong yen, which has battered Sony’s profitability abroad, as well as the lingering effects of damage from the tsunami in Japan last year and flooding in the manufacturing hub of Thailand.


Analysts also point out that Sony needs to focus its resources on its strengths, like its entertainment and video games units, and abandon areas, like televisions, in which it is no longer competitive. But Mr. Hirai has previously denied that Sony would go so far, saying the company was not prepared to give up on such a central and time-honored business.

Sony was losing money on every PS3 sold, but it's been sold at a profit since 2010. The Vita might be a different story though.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-ps3-now-profitable/


This year is the first time that we are able to cover the cost of the PlayStation 3," Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony’s Worldwide Studios, told IGN. "We aren’t making huge money from hardware, but we aren’t bleeding like we used to."

Sony most recently updated PS3 hardware earlier this year, shipping new consoles with smaller and more cost efficient graphics chips as part of its long-running bid to reduce manufacturing costs and boost profitability. And now that it’s making money on the hardware, the company isn’t thinking of cutting the PS3’s retail price in the near future.


The PS3 hardware has been scaled down again, so it should be even more profitable than it was with the introduction of the slim.

[Bojay1997]

According to the article it isn't.



Sony was losing money on every PS3 sold, but it's been sold at a profit since 2010. The Vita might be a different story though.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-ps3-now-profitable/



The PS3 hardware has been scaled down again, so it should be even more profitable than it was with the introduction of the slim.

You're using outdated and vague sources. Here is a specific citation to the most recent quarterly report. The games division alone lost $45 million US or 29 million GBP.

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1517042/sony_games_division_posts_29m_loss_as_ps3_ps_vita_ sales_decline.html

Also, to your point, it doesn't matter if they make money on each PS3 or Vita sold or not. All that net profit can be wiped out by marketing costs, development costs on the next generation, poor software sales, losses from piracy, etc...Similarly, it wouldn't be a problem if they lost tons of money on the hardware as long as their software or digital services were highly profitable which unfortunately they are not right now, at least not enough to make a net profit.

[Gamevet]

You're using outdated and vague sources. Here is a specific citation to the most recent quarterly report. The games division alone lost $45 million US or 29 million GBP.

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1517042/sony_games_division_posts_29m_loss_as_ps3_ps_vita_ sales_decline.html

Also, to your point, it doesn't matter if they make money on each PS3 or Vita sold or not. All that net profit can be wiped out by marketing costs, development costs on the next generation, poor software sales, losses from piracy, etc...Similarly, it wouldn't be a problem if they lost tons of money on the hardware as long as their software or digital services were highly profitable which unfortunately they are not right now, at least not enough to make a net profit.

But you're overlooking the big picture; The games division wasn't Sony's loss leader. The company lost $ 6.5 billion across the board, with a paltry $45 million being from the games division. The losses from the game division were accounted to 400k less in sales of the PS2 and PS3, and 400k less in sales of its portables, compared to the previous fiscal year.




Sony's games division posted an operating loss of $45 million (£29m), citing declining demand for consoles and games.

Falling PlayStation sales were somewhat hidden, with Sony lumping PS3 and PS2 sales together (2.8 million, down from 3.2 million the previous year) and the combined PSP and PS Vita unit sales down to 1.4 million from 1.8 million the previous year.

The PSP is actually doing very well in Japan, with software sales. It's a money maker in their country, but with the devalue of the Yen, their sales in North America are actually hurting profit.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/1209/game120927d.shtml

http://seekingalpha.com/article/378191-japanese-yen-likely-to-lose-value-faster-than-the-dollar



At this moment it seems likely that the Yen will lose value faster than the Dollar, hence justifying a long position in the USD/JPY currency pair. It does not necessarily mean that the Dollar itself will appreciate, but it will gain relative strength as the Yen declines. Seeing paper currencies in relative, not absolute, strength is the striking characteristic of currency pairs.

Let's not forget Nintendo, that is nearly 100% videogames, reported much larger losses.

http://www.webpronews.com/nintendo-reports-more-losses-as-3ds-doesnt-perform-as-expected-2012-10



Nintendo shocked the world earlier this year by announcing the first annual loss in the company’s history. The loss was attributed to sluggish 3DS sales, but the company had hoped to return to profitability this year. That doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

Nintendo announced today that its annual net profit forecast has been cut by 70 percent. It’s due in part to first-half losses of $351 million which is 40 percent more than expected. Now the company expects to bring in $75 million in profits this fiscal year, a far cry from the original forecast of $251 million.

[ifkz]

I love my Vita. To me it is like being able to own a TurboExpress back in 1991. Nothing else can touch the tech, the screen is nice, the game selection is great. I can't think of a knock against the Vita, really. I got mine during a GameStop $250 bundle special that added on a free game of my choice (Wipeout) and an offical Sony case. $20 for a 4GB card wasn't so bad. Looking at Slickdeals, I was able to pick up Mortal Kombat for $12 or so too. $200 of the trade credit was all thanks to a good timed 3ds trade in, the most over hyped handheld I've owned.

I also really like the remote desktop like feature of the Vita and PS3. It is fun being able to play any PS1 game, like Raiden Project or R-Types, on the Vita from the couch. Give me a good enough coffee shop or library connection and I'd bet I could play them away from home.

The Vita is the handheld gaming experience I've always wanted. Even if it gets discontinued tomorrow, I could see myself tracking down the software that's been released so far for a complete collection. I'm hoping to add Gravity Rush and Marvel vs. Capcom 3 sometime. I would love a port of Fallout 3 on the unit.

[WCP]

First off, let me just say that if anybody wants a Vita, it shouldn't be very hard to find one on Craigslist for $150 cash money. I've bought several at that price. (I have 3 vita's at my house, one for me and two for my two boys). We bought all of our Vita's off Craigslist, and each time I got them for $150. Also, you can get most of the games for $15 via Craigslist or $20 via Ebay. I just recently got Madden 13 on Ebay for only $10.13 shipped. Normally it goes for closer to $15 to $21 shipped, but I got lucky. There are tons of great games on the Vita. I think the Hot Shots Golf is absolutely outstanding. One of the most addictive portable games I've ever played. Wipeout on Vita is damn impressive. I'm a huge Wipeout fan, and the Vita version is well worth the price of admission (especially cause you can find the game for $19.99 places).

Fifa Soccer on the Vita is another example of a top notch Vita game. Easily the best portable version of soccer in existence. When I play that game on my Vita, it's like holding a miniature sized PS3 with a copy of Fifa 12 running on it. Yeah, I know the new Fifa Soccer 13 is a ripoff, because they basically took the last version and only added a roster update. Forget Fifa 13. Just get the first one, you can probably find it for $15 or less on Craiglist or Ebay. Trust me, the game is fucking brilliant. Playability out the ying yang. There are lots of fun demos to play on PSN as well. Super Stardust is awesome. Montezuma, the match 3 game is fun to play once per day. It's one of those freemium games.

GameStop had Mortal Kombat vita for $10. I'm not sure what the price is now, but so many of them were sold at that price, that it shouldn't be hard to get from somebody else for $10 to $15. It's well worth that. It's a damn good game. Lots of good games to get on the cheap.

[Bojay1997]

But you're overlooking the big picture; The games division wasn't Sony's loss leader. The company lost $ 6.5 billion across the board, with a paltry $45 million being from the games division. The losses from the game division were accounted to 400k less in sales of the PS2 and PS3, and 400k less in sales of its portables, compared to the previous fiscal year.





The PSP is actually doing very well in Japan, with software sales. It's a money maker in their country, but with the devalue of the Yen, their sales in North America are actually hurting profit.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/1209/game120927d.shtml

http://seekingalpha.com/article/378191-japanese-yen-likely-to-lose-value-faster-than-the-dollar




Let's not forget Nintendo, that is nearly 100% videogames, reported much larger losses.

http://www.webpronews.com/nintendo-reports-more-losses-as-3ds-doesnt-perform-as-expected-2012-10

I'm sorry, but now you're just trying to redirect the argument despite the fact that you were factually proven to be wrong. You claimed the gaming division wasn't part of the reason for the loss and was in fact profitable. You were wrong about that. The fact that Nintendo or anyone else suffered a bigger loss is irrelevant. Unlike Sony, Nintendo has very few places to go if its video game business goes bust. The company would basically cease to exist at that point. As such, Nintendo is going to stick it out regardless of the outcome.

Sony lost money on its game division last quarter and has lost money in the gaming division for at least the past few years. If those losses get worse or continue for too long, Sony will do what it has done in other divisions and cut unprofitable product lines. Does that mean Sony will get out of video game hardware completely? Probably not, but anyone that thinks they will let Vita go on for as long as PSP if it's not profitable is ignoring Sony's own history and its recent actions in other divisions.

[Gamevet]

I'm sorry, but now you're just trying to redirect the argument despite the fact that you were factually proven to be wrong. You claimed the gaming division wasn't part of the reason for the loss and was in fact profitable. You were wrong about that. The fact that Nintendo or anyone else suffered a bigger loss is irrelevant. Unlike Sony, Nintendo has very few places to go if its video game business goes bust. The company would basically cease to exist at that point. As such, Nintendo is going to stick it out regardless of the outcome.



Nope, I said:


It's not Sony's videogame division that is posting those losses though. They've lost a huge amount of market share in the television market, that they once dominated.

The videogame division isn't posting huge losses. The rest of the company accounts for over 99.9% of the losses. The videogame division isn't what is wrong with Sony's profit margin, it's the rest of the company that is hemorrhaging cash.


Yeah, the launch of the Vita was a big part of the $48 million profit loss for the videogame division of Sony, but I've clearly pointed out that Nintendo suffered bigger losses with the launch of the 3DS. The PS3 caused much larger losses for Sony's videogame division, than the Vita has, so I see no reason why Sony would cut and run on the Vita so soon.

[kupomogli]

nevermind

[Bojay1997]

Nope, I said:



The videogame division isn't posting huge losses. The rest of the company accounts for over 99.9% of the losses. The videogame division isn't what is wrong with Sony's profit margin, it's the rest of the company that is hemorrhaging cash.


Yeah, the launch of the Vita was a big part of the $48 million profit loss for the videogame division of Sony, but I've clearly pointed out that Nintendo suffered bigger losses with the launch of the 3DS. The PS3 caused much larger losses for Sony's videogame division, than the Vita has, so I see no reason why Sony would cut and run on the Vita so soon.

I'm sorry, but you are misrepresenting your own statements. To my comment "That doesn't mean the Playstation division was profitable or not a part of the loss." You said "According to the article it isn't." "It isn't" is a direct denial of my claim that the Playstation division was part of the loss. You also stated that "It's not Sony's videogame division that is posting those losses though." I never said anything in there about the losses being "huge" and neither did you. Your clear representation was that the videogame division has not been posting losses. It has been and is still posting losses as of the last quarterly report.

As for the other part of it, nobody really knows how much appetite Sony has for further losses. Sony was much more profitable when the PS3 launched, having come through two successful previous console releases and in an era when they still led in television and other consumer electronics sales. As such, they were probably much more willing to stick things out for the long term assuming that the PS3 would eventually be profitable. While I don't think they will "cut and run" after this holiday season, I certainly don't think they will let things go on for several more years if the losses continue. It's a publically traded company, so at some point shareholder pressure will force a change.

[Leo_A]

A 48 million loss for videogaming at Sony is almost nothing. Unless Sony itself goes under, I don't see the videogaming division being a target for draconian cuts. It has traditionally been a very profitable enterprise for Sony and it seems as if they've done much over the past 5 years to get the ship righted and headed back in that direction after scores of poor decisions in the middle half of the past decade.

I have to think that the Vita is an important aspect of their plans for the future. But who knows, they sure don't seem to be trying particularly hard on the software side of things. So maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

I think it would be a shame, a poor business decision, and would greatly hurt their reputation in this industry if they were to let this thing just wither on the vine.

[Bojay1997]

A 48 million loss for videogaming at Sony is almost nothing. Unless Sony itself goes under, I don't see the videogaming division being a target for draconian cuts. It has traditionally been a very profitable enterprise for Sony and it seems as if they've done much over the past 5 years to get the ship righted and headed back in that direction after scores of poor decisions in the middle half of the past decade.

I have to think that the Vita is an important aspect of their plans for the future. But who knows, they sure don't seem to be trying particularly hard on the software side of things. So maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

I think it would be a shame, a poor business decision, and would greatly hurt their reputation in this industry if they were to let this thing just wither on the vine.

I agree that $48 million is not massive in relation to a company the size of Sony. At the same time, that's a quarterly loss, so if that continues and becomes $200 million for the fiscal year, that would be a substantial concern. The fact also remains that this isn't a one time event and the video game division has either lost money or produced very minimal profit since the time of the PS3 launch almost six years ago now. Personally, I consider myself a Sony fan and every TV and DVD and Blu Ray player in our house is a Sony (well except for my Samsung and Toshiba Nuons) and I own a PSOne, PS2, PSP, PSP Go and Vita.

I am very concerned about the apparent lack of support for both the PS3 and Vita on the exclusive software side. I'm not super excited about products like Wonderbook, LBP Karting or Playstation All Stars Battle Royale and I'm holding out hope that some of the PS3 games that were shown at E3 this year will be released fairly early in the year to offset what has been a fairly disappointing few months. I guess I expected more when Sony announced that there would be a consistent flow of software coming out for the Vita, but it turns out that it's really been about the same as the PSP.

[Gamevet]

I'm sorry, but you are misrepresenting your own statements. To my comment "That doesn't mean the Playstation division was profitable or not a part of the loss." You said "According to the article it isn't." "It isn't" is a direct denial of my claim that the Playstation division was part of the loss. You also stated that "It's not Sony's videogame division that is posting those losses though." I never said anything in there about the losses being "huge" and neither did you. Your clear representation was that the videogame division has not been posting losses. It has been and is still posting losses as of the last quarterly report.

My initial comments were that the videogame division wasn't posting those (being the $6.5 billion) losses. If you look back at the launch of the PS3, Sony was posting losses in excess of $200 million, which was directly connected to the costs of that hardware. The same cannot be said of 2012, where the loss leader for Sony is their Televisions and small electronics that have been on the decline since early 2000s. Even if Sony videogame division was posting profits that were equal to the @ $800 million they were generating per-year with the PS2, they'd still be $5.7 billiion in the hole this year.

So when I said this: "It's not Sony's videogame division that is posting those losses though."

Your comments of me being 100% wrong was total f'en bullshit.



As for the other part of it, nobody really knows how much appetite Sony has for further losses. Sony was much more profitable when the PS3 launched, having come through two successful previous console releases and in an era when they still led in television and other consumer electronics sales. As such, they were probably much more willing to stick things out for the long term assuming that the PS3 would eventually be profitable. While I don't think they will "cut and run" after this holiday season, I certainly don't think they will let things go on for several more years if the losses continue. It's a publically traded company, so at some point shareholder pressure will force a change.

It's not Sony's videogame division that is killing them. In the past they were able to hide their losses behind the success of the Playstation brand; it was their most profitable product. Sony has been bleeding huge amounts of money in the television area, where their over-priced units are collecting dust, because of competition from Samsung, LG and Vizio. Their computer sales have been nose-diving, along with Dell, because of the popularity of smart pads and cheap laptops. Their Walkman is almost a forgotten product, with Apple owning that market as well.

I have 3 Sony CRTs in my home. When it came time to buy an LCD in 2009, I went with Samsung, because they were selling a 52" 120hz television for less than what I would have paid for Sony's 46".

[Bojay1997]

My initial comments were that the videogame division wasn't posting those (being the $6.5 billion) losses. If you look back at the launch of the PS3, Sony was posting losses in excess of $200 million, which was directly connected to the costs of that hardware. The same cannot be said of 2012, where the loss leader for Sony is their Televisions and small electronics that have been on the decline since early 2000s. Even if Sony videogame division was posting profits that were equal to the @ $800 million they were generating per-year with the PS2, they'd still be $5.7 billiion in the hole this year.

So when I said this: "It's not Sony's videogame division that is posting those losses though."

Your comments of me being 100% wrong was total f'en bullshit.



It's not Sony's videogame division that is killing them. In the past they were able to hide their losses behind the success of the Playstation brand; it was their most profitable product. Sony has been bleeding huge amounts of money in the television area, where their over-priced units are collecting dust, because of competition from Samsung, LG and Vizio. Their computer sales have been nose-diving, along with Dell, because of the popularity of smart pads and cheap laptops. Their Walkman is almost a forgotten product, with Apple owning that market as well.

I have 3 Sony CRTs in my home. When it came time to buy an LCD in 2009, I went with Samsung, because they were selling a 52" 120hz television for less than what I would have paid for Sony's 46".




That was for the ending quarter (the slowest part of the year) of Fiscal year 2012; It's in the books. The quarter also saw Sony reducing prices on the Move and games dedicated to it, PSP softwere, as well as clearing out the PS3 3D television.

We are now starting the fiscal year 2013, that will include the upcoming holiday season.

I have literally in my time on this board never known anyone to make so many repeated false statements of fact and refuse to acknowledge that they are just plain wrong. Sony is on an April 1 to March 31st fiscal year and the $45 million loss was in Q1 of 2012.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/02/sony-q1-2012/
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html

They will release their Q2 2012 results in a week or two as they always do. They obviously use a delayed reporting schedule which is common for Japanese companies. They won't enter FY2013 until April 1, 2013.

[Gamevet]

I have literally in my time on this board never known anyone to make so many repeated false statements of fact and refuse to acknowledge that they are just plain wrong. Sony is on an April 1 to March 31st fiscal year and the $45 million loss was in Q1 of 2012.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/02/sony-q1-2012/
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html

They will release their Q2 2012 results in a week or two as they always do. They obviously use a delayed reporting schedule which is common for Japanese companies. They won't enter FY2013 until April 1, 2013.

Yeah, I erased that. For North America that is true.

Why don't you go check out the state of the LCD industry and its 8 year effect on Sony.

And I'm appalled that you twist someone's words to have a different meaning. Not everything is black and white.

[Bojay1997]

Yeah, I erased that.

Why don't you go check out the state of the LCD industry and its 8 year effect on Sony.

And I'm appalled that you twist someone's words to have a different meaning. Not everything is black and white.

Ok, is it fair to assume you erased it because you were wrong and had posted incorrect information that you hadn't bothered to check before you posted it? I have no doubt that Sony's problems with its television line have had a very significant contributory impact on its financial problems and in some quarters may have even been the most significant cause of its losses. That doesn't mean that the video game division hasn't contributed to those losses or that they can be ignored. Publically traded corporations don't have the luxury of distracting shareholders by pointing to billion dollar losses only to mask multi-million dollar losses. The billion dollar losses may get the most immediate attention and the most radical action from management, but you can bet that every loss will be scrutinized going forward and if any division continues to lose money with no prospect of turning things around, Sony will not hesitate to either shut it down or eliminate products just like they have done this year in televisions.

[Gamevet]

Ok, is it fair to assume you erased it because you were wrong and had posted incorrect information that you hadn't bothered to check before you posted it?

I was going by the North American fiscal year. Big deal! Either way, it should still be a more profitable quarter than the last.

I get the impression you like to sensationalize little things, to make it appear like a bigger deal than it is.




I have no doubt that Sony's problems with its television line have had a very significant contributory impact on its financial problems and in some quarters may have even been the most significant cause of its losses. That doesn't mean that the video game division hasn't contributed to those losses or that they can be ignored. Publically traded corporations don't have the luxury of distracting shareholders by pointing to billion dollar losses only to mask multi-million dollar losses. The billion dollar losses may get the most immediate attention and the most radical action from management, but you can bet that every loss will be scrutinized going forward and if any division continues to lose money with no prospect of turning things around, Sony will not hesitate to either shut it down or eliminate products just like they have done this year in televisions.

Yeah, Kaz just cut 10,000 jobs, with a good portion being in the television sector.

Yeah, their videogame division isn't pulling profit like it did with the previous 2 generations, but it hasn't exactly worked out well for MS either; they had to write off a $1 billion for the RROD with the 360. Still, it's not like Sony hasn't been having profitable quarters with their videogame division in the past couple of years. 2010 was a profitable year for that division, while their music, television and entertainment divisions have been on a continual downward spirtal.

Long story short, they aren't making a lot of profit with sold products in North America, because of the strength of the dollar vs. the yen. And when it comes to cutting their losses, their videogame division isn't at the top of the list of money losing products.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

So it's decided then, there will be no uniting of Vita owners.

[kupomogli]

Nah. Just Bojay hopping into every Sony thread and acting like an ass.

[Bojay1997]

Nah. Just Bojay hopping into every Sony thread and acting like an ass.

I think of it as being rational and bringing facts to the table rather than the blind advocacy and misinformation some people seem to always post in these threads assuming that nobody will bother to check the details. Sony is not your friend just like Microsoft and Nintendo aren't your friends. They are corporations with a singular goal of making money. If you enjoy any or all of their products, that's great. That being said, the ridiculous loyalty that some people have for any of the big three video game companies is really just silly.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I think of it as being rational and bringing facts to the table rather than the blind advocacy and misinformation some people seem to always post in these threads assuming that nobody will bother to check the details. Sony is not your friend just like Microsoft and Nintendo aren't your friends. They are corporations with a singular goal of making money. If you enjoy any or all of their products, that's great. That being said, the ridiculous loyalty that some people have for any of the big three video game companies is really just silly.

Yea.

While it's clearly still an issue, I think the "they really care about ME" type personalization/personification of video game companies (mainly those that produce hardware) has diminished in this generation, either through the non-stop games journalism and social media dedicated to following/detailing every single solitary aspect of a company down to their manufacturing processes, financial reportings etc. (things like that remove a lot of the mystery/secrecy/blissful ignorance that some have) or through the varied missteps that all three major companies have made/dedicated users may have considered slights against their fandom.

There's still a lot of blind following that occurs, but in general I think that in this extra long console generation wrought with disruptions, even a lot of so-called "fanboys", have felt their dedications strained.

[kupomogli]

I think of it as being rational and bringing facts to the table rather than the blind advocacy and misinformation some people seem to always post in these threads assuming that nobody will bother to check the details. Sony is not your friend just like Microsoft and Nintendo aren't your friends. They are corporations with a singular goal of making money. If you enjoy any or all of their products, that's great. That being said, the ridiculous loyalty that some people have for any of the big three video game companies is really just silly.

It's not about being a fanboy. You came in the thread and made three different arguments with three different people. I posted about the more common expression of port and you come in being some pompous douchebag about how ports are in reality moving code from one system to another, which is true, but NFL 13 on PS3 and NFL 13 on 360 usually not called ports but rather multiconsole. I even even posted a quote from "someone in the industry" to throw it in your face that it's used how I explained it. So commonly used that I found that quote in two seconds.

Don't care much about what you were arguing about with everyone else, just that it always seems that you never fail to jump into a Sony thread to talk crap.

[RCM]

It's not about being a fanboy. You came in the thread and made three different arguments with three different people. I posted about the more common expression of port and you come in being some pompous douchebag about how ports are in reality moving code from one system to another, which is true, but NFL 13 on PS3 and NFL 13 on 360 usually not called ports but rather multiconsole. I even even posted a quote from "someone in the industry" to throw it in your face that it's used how I explained it. So commonly used that I found that quote in two seconds.

Don't care much about what you were arguing about with everyone else, just that it always seems that you never fail to jump into a Sony thread to talk crap.

Isn't this the second time you've popped in to insult Bojay? I certainly don't agree with everything he has expressed on this forum but he seems to be more informed than most who still care to post on DP. As for his posts I've read in this thread, I generally agree with what he stated.

[Bojay1997]

It's not about being a fanboy. You came in the thread and made three different arguments with three different people. I posted about the more common expression of port and you come in being some pompous douchebag about how ports are in reality moving code from one system to another, which is true, but NFL 13 on PS3 and NFL 13 on 360 usually not called ports but rather multiconsole. I even even posted a quote from "someone in the industry" to throw it in your face that it's used how I explained it. So commonly used that I found that quote in two seconds.

Don't care much about what you were arguing about with everyone else, just that it always seems that you never fail to jump into a Sony thread to talk crap.

This is a discussion forum. I take the approach that if I agree with something that someone else posts, I will try to add something helpful to the discussion. Similarly, if I disagree with something, I post my opinion and try to provide logical and factual support for my opinion. The sad fact is that people have largely abandoned this forum and moved on to other places like Atari Age because the level of discourse and logical discussion that used to occur here has all but disappeared. People post opinions or inaccurate facts and pass them off as the truth and refuse to acknowledge that they were wrong when someone calls them on it. It seems like every other post now is some fanboy rant about how great Sony or Nintendo is (I haven't seen a similar post about Microsoft that I can recall, but if it exists I will concede the point) or how crappy Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft is. Sometimes to add a little variety, someone posts about a specific game either calling it great or crap, usually with no explanation or other thought given to the opinion and certainly no acknowledgement that someone could disagree and have a different opinion than their own.

Personally, I own all of the consoles and handhelds from this generation and most from every generation going back to the original Odyssey and I think they all have strengths and weaknesses. I get that not everyone can afford every console and handheld and I have been very fortunate to make a good living, but I would never look down on someone or attack them for the choices they make in their console, handheld or gaming purchases.

I'm sorry that you would rather have a forum where everyone shares the same opinion and never questions erroneous facts. For as long as I'm a member here, however, I am going to continue to share my own opinion and correct inaccurate facts wherever they are posted.

[Oldskool]

So it's decided then, there will be no uniting of Vita owners.

I know right. That's what I was thinking. I didn't expect my thread to escalate into this. I wonder if most of the people in this thread even has a Vita. All I have to say is that if people would stop analyzing Sony and their practices and stop debating whether they are going to fail or win, and just pick one up and play it then all of this wouldn't really be a concern. Way too much over analzing in here.

OK, so to those who OWN a Vita. What are your thoughts on it and what made you decide to purchase it? What is your favorite game, and what game is the one you are looking the most forward to? I personally can't wait for Phantasy Star on the Vita. I was thoroughly addicted to PSO on the DS, and it wasn't even that good of a game. On the Vita it can be just as sweet as the PC version, or even better.

Other than the free AR games and now the free Frobisher Says game, I own Madden 13 (bundle), Wipeout, Hot Shots Golf, and Rayman. Of those I have played the most of Hot Shots golf, for ANYONE with a Vita, I HIGHLY recommend this game, you don't even have to be a golf fan to love it, it's just FUN. Next favorite of the games I own would have to be Rayman, BEST Rayman game EVER since the original PSX release - if you ask me. It's the formula Rayman should have stuck with. Yeah it's a port but big deal, it's awesome. Wipeout is freaking amazing I admit, I've just been too busy playing Hot Shots and Rayman to put much time into it - same for Madden 13, it's a GOOD game. I am just so consumed with Hot Shots and Rayman I haven't given it a chance.

[Oldskool]

This is a discussion forum. I take the approach that if I agree with something that someone else posts, I will try to add something helpful to the discussion. Similarly, if I disagree with something, I post my opinion and try to provide logical and factual support for my opinion. The sad fact is that people have largely abandoned this forum and moved on to other places like Atari Age because the level of discourse and logical discussion that used to occur here has all but disappeared. People post opinions or inaccurate facts and pass them off as the truth and refuse to acknowledge that they were wrong when someone calls them on it. It seems like every other post now is some fanboy rant about how great Sony or Nintendo is (I haven't seen a similar post about Microsoft that I can recall, but if it exists I will concede the point) or how crappy Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft is. Sometimes to add a little variety, someone posts about a specific game either calling it great or crap, usually with no explanation or other thought given to the opinion and certainly no acknowledgement that someone could disagree and have a different opinion than their own.

Personally, I own all of the consoles and handhelds from this generation and most from every generation going back to the original Odyssey and I think they all have strengths and weaknesses. I get that not everyone can afford every console and handheld and I have been very fortunate to make a good living, but I would never look down on someone or attack them for the choices they make in their console, handheld or gaming purchases.

I'm sorry that you would rather have a forum where everyone shares the same opinion and never questions erroneous facts. For as long as I'm a member here, however, I am going to continue to share my own opinion and correct inaccurate facts wherever they are posted.

I agree with you - good intelligent debates and conversations seem like a rarity these days on discussion forums. But I do want to mention that I am not a fanboy or anything trying to start a fanboy thread. I just merely created this thread for Vita owners or owners to be to discuss the wonderful handheld that it is. I noticed very little threads (that are current) devoted to Vita discussion, especially amongst owners. To be honest with you I love all video games. No particular fanboy here but Sega is my favorite, especially Genesis.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I know right. That's what I was thinking. I didn't expect my thread to escalate into this. I wonder if most of the people in this thread even has a Vita. All I have to say is that if people would stop analyzing Sony and their practices and stop debating whether they are going to fail or win, and just pick one up and play it then all of this wouldn't really be a concern. Way too much over analzing in here.

OK, so to those who OWN a Vita. What are your thoughts on it and what made you decide to purchase it? What is your favorite game, and what game is the one you are looking the most forward to? I personally can't wait for Phantasy Star on the Vita. I was thoroughly addicted to PSO on the DS, and it wasn't even that good of a game. On the Vita it can be just as sweet as the PC version, or even better.

Other than the free AR games and now the free Frobisher Says game, I own Madden 13 (bundle), Wipeout, Hot Shots Golf, and Rayman. Of those I have played the most of Hot Shots golf, for ANYONE with a Vita, I HIGHLY recommend this game, you don't even have to be a golf fan to love it, it's just FUN. Next favorite of the games I own would have to be Rayman, BEST Rayman game EVER since the original PSX release - if you ask me. It's the formula Rayman should have stuck with. Yeah it's a port but big deal, it's awesome. Wipeout is freaking amazing I admit, I've just been too busy playing Hot Shots and Rayman to put much time into it - same for Madden 13, it's a GOOD game. I am just so consumed with Hot Shots and Rayman I haven't given it a chance.

Heh, I was just cracking wise, but it's a bit frustrating when even just overtly positive, optimistic discussion about something that's not setting the sales charts on fire catches static from those who like to illustrate things like the current consumer/developer landscape and the potential bleak future for a device like a Vita or a 3DS.

I mean, at the end of the day I'm a realist, I'm not saying that there's no possibility for failure, but generally I like to have positive, optimistic discussions. Games are a hobby that I really enjoy, so even though there's tons of reasons to be defeatist/negative about things, I don't see much of a point wasting breath on listing all the reasons why a portable/handheld system won't weather the storm of the changing industry. That's just me though, anybody else who wants to, well that's all good as long as they don't make things personal.

I've got a few physical games and a shit-ton of downloads that carried over from digital purchases and PLUS downloads on PSN on my Vita, as well as all the free stuff that has been offered. I think the system is amazingly engineered, it has lots of potential, Sony seems to have the store/compatibility with things like PSOne games sorted out and I think that it's just subsisting in the market in a tough time. Cross-play titles and ones that you buy on PS3 and get on Vita and vice/versa are awsome. I'm hoping that it'll get through this and I'm counting on Sony being as scrappy with it as they have been with the PSP. Once a few franchise/tent-pole titles come out that are bundle-worthy it might move more units. If not, maybe they will eventually slash the price and take the hit to get units to the public.

I have very few complaints about the device overall other than the slow pace of new full-fledged titles rolling out at retail, but, I've got PLENTY to play with on it in the way of PSP/PSOne/Minis, so. Yeah. Vita is good.

[Gamevet]

I'm holding off on the Vita for now. I really like the hardware and would love to play Uncharted, but the rest of the library doesn't excite me. Plus, I've only had my PSP for about 2 years, so I've been busy putting together a solid collection for it.

[swlovinist]

I am not Vita owner, although I have played one several times along with several games. Of the four other friends of mine that have owned one, only one remains owning one. I do own a PSP and about 80 games. I mostly bought the system for all the obscure RPGs and oddball titles. I bought many of the games when the system was on it way out. I plan to do the same with the Vita.

The Vita itself is a fine system. The problem is that the system has been marketed by a barrel of monkeys. Also, owning a dedicated portable game system now has less incentives. While I see that the Vita is getting some games, I think that I will wait till the system is cheaper new along with more games. I am fine with waiting.

This is my stance on the 3DS well. I will buy one but only down the road. I am fine with waiting. I find myself caring less about portable games in general, even though I know that there are some great games out there.

I think that Sony itself has a major image problem. I think that they could do alot more to advertise their systems better as well as promote the great products that they do have.

Bottom line, I guess I will be like alot of other people that are fine with waiting on the system. I do plan on getting one.

[Dangerboy]

It also doesn't help there's only 12 games for the system to pre-order, and of the 12, 3 are next year.

[kupomogli]

It also doesn't help there's only 12 games for the system to pre-order, and of the 12, 3 are next year.

It would be 12 if Gamefaqs information was correct.

[Dangerboy]

Going off GameStop's list. Considering you can reserve console games slated for 2014, I'm pretty sure their view of the upcoming list is a bit better.

[kupomogli]

Okay then. Both Gamestop and Gamefaqs is wrong then. Where's Dragon's Crown, Killzone Mercenary, and Tearaway. Those are coming out 2013 and aren't listed.

While this is for the PS3 version, as the Vita version is digital only, Ratchet and Clank Full Frontal Assault also isn't shown on either release page. It's coming out 11/27. Looks boring as hell if you ask me though.

For those that miss the thread in the deals page. 3G version of Vita is $179 at Target now.

http://www.target.com/p/playstation-vita-hardware-3g-bundle-with-8gb-memory-and-at-t-data-connect-black-playstation-vita/-/A-14007120#prodSlot=medium_1_2

[substantial_snake]

I know right. That's what I was thinking. I didn't expect my thread to escalate into this. I wonder if most of the people in this thread even has a Vita. All I have to say is that if people would stop analyzing Sony and their practices and stop debating whether they are going to fail or win, and just pick one up and play it then all of this wouldn't really be a concern. Way too much over analzing in here.

OK, so to those who OWN a Vita. What are your thoughts on it and what made you decide to purchase it? What is your favorite game, and what game is the one you are looking the most forward to? I personally can't wait for Phantasy Star on the Vita. I was thoroughly addicted to PSO on the DS, and it wasn't even that good of a game. On the Vita it can be just as sweet as the PC version, or even better.

Other than the free AR games and now the free Frobisher Says game, I own Madden 13 (bundle), Wipeout, Hot Shots Golf, and Rayman. Of those I have played the most of Hot Shots golf, for ANYONE with a Vita, I HIGHLY recommend this game, you don't even have to be a golf fan to love it, it's just FUN. Next favorite of the games I own would have to be Rayman, BEST Rayman game EVER since the original PSX release - if you ask me. It's the formula Rayman should have stuck with. Yeah it's a port but big deal, it's awesome. Wipeout is freaking amazing I admit, I've just been too busy playing Hot Shots and Rayman to put much time into it - same for Madden 13, it's a GOOD game. I am just so consumed with Hot Shots and Rayman I haven't given it a chance.

thatesclatedquickly.jpg

So anyways I've owned a Vita since launch and love the thing. I picked one up because the PSP was my personal favorite portable last cycle and I hope that the Vita will delivered that same experience of a wide arrange of titles with an ease of importing the stuff we don't get here, thus far its doing exactly that. Combined with some nice PSP emulation options and PS1 titles and PSN minis make it a great portable system, I do wish there were more games on the horizon to look forward too but the few coming up look fantastic. As has been said over and over the hardware is amazing but personally my favorite feature is the D-pad, really one of the best I have ever used for all game types and if it holds up over time I really hope that Sony starts using it on its controllers because its really really good. lol

My current collection stands at:
Rayman Origins
Uncharted: GA
Disgaea 3
Mortal Kombat
Wipeout 2048
Unit 13
BlazeBlue
Gravity Rush
LBP
Project Diva F

This isn't mentioning the "core" PS1 RPG library about 20 PSP games like Dissidia 2, God Eater Burst, Disgaea 1-2, etc. and downloaded games like RCR and the like. The console really has a ton of content available on it that's nice to have all in one place with the great hardware controls of the console. I think my favorite game thus far has been Gravity Rush and I really hope we see a sequal that ties the story up and polishes up the game somewhat. The artstyle coupled with the world they created really sucked me in and I'm sure the majority of the time I spent ingame was just enjoying the sensation of flying around the city. I just wish that combat was more indepth then it ended up being and that they utilize the open world aspect better if/when they do a sequel. The city was fun to fly around just had little to do outside of that.

I'm most looking forward to Killzone Mercenary and AC III Liberation. KZ:M's short clip looked great and as a fan of the series I am anways interested in the next installment. A solid FSP game on the handheld would be great too as Burning Skies seemed rather lackluster and I don't really have high hopes for Blops Vita so far. I haven't played an AC game before but the character and setting of Liberation look very interesting, pending reviews I might pick that one up too.

I seriously doubt that this will revive this thread but if you do own a vita get a Hori Grip. I've bought and thrown away pretty much every other amazon grip avaliable and this is the best one IMO. Keeps your hands off the rear touch pad when you don't want them there but keeps in it easy reach when you do. Also has handles that slide up for a more compact package...seriously buy it if you have any issues using the thing.

[WCP]

I own Madden 13 (bundle), Wipeout, Hot Shots Golf, and Rayman. Of those I have played the most of Hot Shots golf, for ANYONE with a Vita, I HIGHLY recommend this game, you don't even have to be a golf fan to love it, it's just FUN. Next favorite of the games I own would have to be Rayman, BEST Rayman game EVER since the original PSX release - if you ask me. It's the formula Rayman should have stuck with. Yeah it's a port but big deal, it's awesome. Wipeout is freaking amazing I admit, I've just been too busy playing Hot Shots and Rayman to put much time into it - same for Madden 13, it's a GOOD game. I am just so consumed with Hot Shots and Rayman I haven't given it a chance.

I feel pretty much exactly the same way. Hot Shots is the killer app. Fifa is amazing, you should try that. The first Fifa is perfectly fine, so just find a used one for $15 or less. Wipeout is great, but hard. Madden 13 is surprisingly decent after that patch, and it can be had on Ebay for about $17, which is real nice. Super Stardust Delta is awesome. It's a great downloadable title.

Also, that Montezuma game, the freemium game... I play that game A LOT. I've never paid any money to play it. I just did the free games, and that's it. Still, I enjoy playing it.


As for Rayman, that's a game that I need to find somewhere for like $15. I'd buy it in a second. I'm also interested in the new Need For Speed game. I've heard some strange things about the Assassin's Creed game, so not sure about that. I've also heard that the Call of Duty game is really lame. (same guys that did the crappy Resistance vita game)

[kupomogli]

I've also heard that the Call of Duty game is really lame. (same guys that did the crappy Resistance vita game)

I'm no fan of Call of Duty, but the new Call of Duty bashing just because the Resistance game may or may not have sucked is just another case of sheep following the herd. The game isn't out for another three weeks so how do these people know how good or bad the game is?

We've all been collecting for awhile, so I'm assuming we've all been gaming for awhile, but who here hasn't seen developers that may have developed a bad game and then their next title was a much better game. We've also seen developers who have made amazing games, and then release some garbage afterwards. It happens.

One thing that's weird is just how some games professional reviewers just seem to feel the need to hold on a much higher pedestal than others. If you've watched any reviews of Resistance, every one of them mentions that it's not a bad game, it's just a completely average shooter that doesn't live up to the rest of the series. So it's an average shooter and instead of the normal scores you usually see average games getting, it just gets raped when it comes to scoring. Metacritic has a 6/10 average and that's really not a bad score if you're actually scoring it properly(3/5,) but then Binary Domain has a 7.3 average, and has all the exact same complaints, that it's also too average of a shooter. How Binary Domain got a 7.3 average is beyond me. It's so average that there's nothing to the game other than killing a few enemies here and then proceeding to the next area to do the same thing against the same exact enemies the entire game. There are literally three variations of the same robot all six chapters, a robot that uses a mini gun, and then some stages there are a couple small robots that are just and not even a threat . All the enemies have the most stupid AI where they just stand in the same spot letting you kill them. I'm not that great at shooters, and playing the hardest difficult, I died twice on the game and both times it was the exact same boss because my allies are retarded.

Seriously though. Certain games get slammed and then everyone just follows the crowd like a bunch of sheep. Resident Evil 6. The game sucks ass, but I'm sure that most of the people bashing it probably didn't even play atleast the demo before hand. They just saw everyone else hated it and then just used someone elses opinion as their own.

[WCP]

I'm no fan of Call of Duty, but the new Call of Duty bashing just because the Resistance game may or may not have sucked is just another case of sheep following the herd. The game isn't out for another three weeks so how do these people know how good or bad the game is?




I listen to a ton of gaming podcasts. A couple of different podcasts have had guys on them that have actually played the Vita version, and their first impressions were NOT good. Sure, maybe somehow the game ends up dramatcially better than when they got a chance to play it, but I'm not holding my breath... I mean, just play Resistance: BS and see what a mean. BS should stand for something different, lol... Still, I wouldn't mind trying the game out, but no way in hell I'm paying full pop for it. I'll have to pick it up on the cheap..

[Bubble_Man]

Unless things change (price cut, great exclusives) this may be Vita's last holiday season. I love the actual hardware, but console ports, a lack of exclusive killer apps, and shovelware along with a high price for hardware and memory cards isn't doing the system favors.

I'd say the criticism is largely warranted and I like Vita.

Agreed. The hardware is certainly impressive, but it has too many ports and not enough exclusives. I'm interested in the Vita, but will not place any serious consideration into getting one until/unless these issues are resolved.

[Dangerboy]

Unless things change (price cut, great exclusives) this may be Vita's last holiday season.

It would be the Vita's only [American] holiday season - it launched in February of this year.

As staunch opponent, but respectful of the deck's fixes from the PSP, since day 1, I finally acquired one with Uncharted, Metal Gear, and Mortal Kombat.

Most of my fears (which posts have since been eradicated from the internet by a devious mod on another forum) have come true in my first 5 hours of messing with the system.

a. The user interface is atrocious, period.

b. The library is pitiful and delusional. The amount of true exclusives is dire and most are all ready being bargain binned by Sony (most games are now half-price of launch day and it's not even been a full year of release).

c. The graphics are amazing, sure. Uncharted looks amazing, and Mortal Kombat's characters look respectable. But there has to be more to it than that. If graphics were all it meant we'd all be playing Neo Geo 360s right now.

d. The system suffers the same mind numbing issues the PS3 has when it comes to functionality. I have a new game, but there's updates I need to sit through, but first let's install the game. Uncharted even turned off a feature on me that I didn't want turned off. The hell?

e. The analog nubs are in the worst location, just like the PSP. I know I'm probably in the minority hear, but no matter how I hold the system, my wrists begin to hurt after a half hour or so.

f. Three different items that should be cross compatible (i.e. bought on PSN to PS3, then transfer that to PSV) have either not worked or needed some bizarre fix / re download to work right. The Vita's PSN store front is even more atrocious than the original PS3's one.

For such a powerful system, ironically just like the PS3, the Vita has some serious issues (price, interface, library, usability) that Sony doesn't seem to think need fixxing aside from "We'll just toss in a game and a memory card...unless you're madden LOL." Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see this thing bounce back like the PS3 did, but there's this dark shadow over it that isn't going to disappear anytime soon.

[kupomogli]

e. The analog nubs are in the worst location, just like the PSP. I know I'm probably in the minority hear, but no matter how I hold the system, my wrists begin to hurt after a half hour or so.

I also have problems with the controls similar to this reason but also another. Now for the most part, the analog sticks work amazingly well, but the problems I have deals with the right analog stick and the size of the buttons. With the analog sticks, they're just too close to the buttons for my liking. If they were slightly further away, then it'd be fine, but when playing a game like Wipeout 2048, while it doesn't happen often, I might be in an elimination match, only for my car to flip around 360° because I slightly touched the right analog.

The other problem is the face buttons are very small and spaced in such a way it forces me to change the way I play using the system. When playing video games on most systems I use the inner joint of my thumb for one button and the top portion of my thumb for the other button. Almost every single console since the NES the controls were spaced perfectly to do as such. With the Vita, I can't do that because of the spacing and size of the buttons, having to use the top of my thumb to press one and the middle portion of my thumb above the joint to press the lower button. When you've been playing games for so long one way, and then forced to do so a completely different way on a similar controller. It's such a small issue, but at the same time it's a major annoyance. Although it's not nearly as bad as how uncomfortable it is to play a game that utilizes the L and R buttons on the 3DS, so from DS to 3DS, even Nintendo screwed up(pressing select and start sucks ass on the 3DS as well.)

[WCP]

The library is pitiful and delusional. The amount of true exclusives is dire and most are all ready being bargain binned by Sony (most games are now half-price of launch day and it's not even been a full year of release).



The library is pitiful and delusional ? Really ? Come on now...

Look, the game selection might not cater to your specific tastes, but there are many, many good games on Vita. Sure, they might not be the brand new releases that you're craving for, but many of the original launch games are quite good. Here is a list of games that I think are all outstanding:


1. Hot Shots Golf - Probably the single best game on Vita. If you have zero interest in a super fun, super casual golf game, well... I can't help you there. The game is Golf. Some people just might not be able to get into Golf. However... If you can bring yourself to try it, you'll probably fall in love with this game. It's pretty hard not to have a good time with it, once you get the feel of things.

2. Fifa Soccer - I have not played the newest version of this game, but have heard that it's mostly just a roster update. If that's the case, then forget about Fifa 13 and just find the original one for cheap. This is the best portable soccer game in the history of portable videogaming. PERIOD. Now again, you may have zero interest in playing a soccer game, but if you gave this game a chance you would see that it's oozing with great playability and gameplay. This version is so close to the PS3 version that it's a bit scary. Only negative thing I can say about this game is the lack of ad-hoc support.

3. Wipeout 2048 - Wipeout is the Vita's graphical and audio tour de force. If you've played Wipeout HD on the PS3, then you'll quickly find your groove with this game. You'll be awed by the amazing visuals and great sound design. The only downside, is that this game is quite hard. Much harder than the PS3 version, at least it seems that way to me. But, this is clearly one of the premier games on Vita. I think it's a must own for anybody that has ever enjoyed a combat racing game.

4. Rayman Origins - I actually don't own this game personally, but I have played the demo, and have heard from others that say that this game is a dream come true on the Vita. One thing you can tell from the demo is that the playability and control is spot on, and the visuals are breathtaking. I'm pretty sure this is one of the Vita games that run at the native res, and you can tell by how gorgeous this game is. Sure, it's just another port of Rayman Origins, but for anybody that has never played the 360 or PS3 versions, they are in for a huge treat with this portable version.

5. Super Stardust Delta - For those that enjoyed Super Stardust HD on the PS3, this version is an absolute no brainer. It's very similar to it's big brother PS3 version, but it plays very well on the portable. Well worth every penny of the $9.99 that Sony is charging.

6. Uncharted: Golden Abyss - Certainly, this is the game that was made to show off the power of the Vita. It's not identical to the Uncharted games on PS3, but the visuals and sound are pretty close. It's quite a feat for the programmers to get the Vita to come this close to producing a PS3 quality game on the go.

7. Tales from Space: Mutant Blobs Attack - I don't own this game, and haven't played a demo (don't think one is available). Everything that I've heard about this game tells me that this game should at least be ranked as the 7th best Vita game. It probably deserves to be ranked much higher... Just go check out some videos for this game, and you'll know what I'm talking about.

8. Virtua Tennis 4 - Again, I have to admit that I've never actually played this game myself, but from everything I've heard, it's the bee's knees. Yes, it's a sports game. I know there are people that have zero interest in a sports game, much less a tennis game, but I just think it's one of those things where if you actually tried the game, you just might find yourself enjoying it quite a bit. There have been some really good Tennis games over the years, and a portable one could be pretty cool

9. Little Big Planet Vita - I was in the beta for this game. I could see right away that this is going to be a great Vita game. The user created levels are going to be really cool. So many inventive levels in the beta, I can only imagine how much better it is now that it's available to everybody.

10. Mortal Kombat - I got this game because GameStop was selling it for only $9.99 at one point. Let me tell you, that was one of the best 10 bucks I've spent. This game is extremely close to the PS3 version. Do the graphics suffer a bit ? Sure, they do. They aren't PS3 perfect, but the game plays very well. It's fast, and fun. The visuals might not be absolutely perfect but all the fun of the console versions made it thru to the Vita version intact.

11. MLB 12 The Show - I'm not really that big into baseball games, but this is a very good version of this game. This one is very similar to Fifa, in terms of them translating a PS3 game to the Vita, and doing a damn fine job of it. Quite possibly the best portable baseball game ever made. That might not mean too much if you can't stand baseball games, but it's there for those that can appreciate it.

12. Madden 13 - When the demo first came out for this game, and I tried it out, I thought that the graphics were very impressive, but the game was just way too glitchy. Later, I heard the game got a patch. Then I found out you could get this game on Ebay for about $17 or so. I picked one up, got the patch and I'm happy to say that this game is much better than the demo would have you believe. Probably the best portable football game of all time. Certainly, for those out there that have no interest at all in playing any sports games, then this doesn't really help you out, but for anybody looking for a next-gen football experience on the go, it's here for the taking.

13. Treasures of Montezuma Blitz - This is one of those freemium games. It's free to play, but you have to pay for extra plays if you run out of turns for that day. I've been playing this thing quite a bit, ever since it's come out. I haven't paid a red cent to Sony for this. I've only used the free plays, and have built up enough jewels to pretty much be able to play as much as I want to. Whenever I turn on my Vita, I will always fire up this game for a few quick plays. It's very addicting, but don't spend any money on it. Just use the free daily plays.


Honerable Mentions:

Sound Shapes
Gravity Rush
Lumines
Unit 13
Resistance: Burning Skies
ModNation Racers Road Trip
BlazBlue
Marvel vs. Capcom

[Dangerboy]

WCP: Thank you for completely glossing over the 'true exclusives' part of my statement.

None of those games are exclusives, and in most cases (note *most*) are just hand me downs. Uncharted, while an original / sequel game, has the original 3 that can be played on a system most people all ready own.

Where are the Professor Laytons, the Phoenix Wrights, the Brain Ages, the Advance Wars - the games that aren't hand me downs from big brother. The ones you would *need* to buy the system to play? That's what Sony is missing, and missing in a bad way.

Is no one else confused as to how NBA 2K13 was released on PSP and not the Vita? Do you really think 'Smart As..." is the best game for the holiday season? 12 or so games confirmed for release compared to the 3DS' 100 or so? These are the things that need to be looked at.

I would be surprised if it doesn't just become a pack-in 'controller' for the PS3 and Orbis and Sony just re-invents itself as a Wii U killer.

[Bojay1997]

WCP: Thank you for completely glossing over the 'true exclusives' part of my statement.

None of those games are exclusives, and in most cases (note *most*) are just hand me downs. Uncharted, while an original / sequel game, has the original 3 that can be played on a system most people all ready own.

Where are the Professor Laytons, the Phoenix Wrights, the Brain Ages, the Advance Wars - the games that aren't hand me downs from big brother. The ones you would *need* to buy the system to play? That's what Sony is missing, and missing in a bad way.

Is no one else confused as to how NBA 2K13 was released on PSP and not the Vita? Do you really think 'Smart As..." is the best game for the holiday season? 12 or so games confirmed for release compared to the 3DS' 100 or so? These are the things that need to be looked at.

I would be surprised if it doesn't just become a pack-in 'controller' for the PS3 and Orbis and Sony just re-invents itself as a Wii U killer.

In fairness, Brain Age (it was called Big Brain) and Advance Wars both had Wii versions and by your standards, every Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda or other marquee Nintendo game on the 3DS would be a "hand me down" as well. While I agree with you that the Vita library lacks diversity, it does have some fairly niche recent or upcoming titles like Ragnarok Odyssey and DJ Max Technika. While the 3DS may have more scheduled upcoming titles on the docket, it's also starting to get more than its share of shovelware. Even Nintendo is releasing some junk like Crosswords Plus, Freakyforms and Style Savvy. Nintendo also delayed Luigi's Mansion 2, Fire Emblem and Animal Crossing until next year. Layton, Paper Mario Sticker Star (which looks pretty lame by the way), Scribblenauts Unlimited and the new Epic Mickey seem to be the only major holiday 3DS releases since Castlevania got pushed.

[Leo_A]

Paper Mario Sticker Star (which looks pretty lame by the way)

I haven't read or watched videos about it extensively. But everything I have seen has been very reminiscent of the N64 and GCN games (And for a time it was even thought it was going to be a remake of the N64 original). And to many of us including myself that loved the first two entries in the series, that's a positive sign after a disappointing Wii game.

About all that I've seen that has been changed significantly has been the turn based attacks themselves (Instead of unlimited commands like jump commands, you instead utilize your stickers you've accumulated in your album to attack with). Everything else seems like minor differences (Stickers instead of badges to gain special capabilities) or positive changes like leveling up by accomplishing tasks that enhance your abilities with the appropriate stickers instead of just gaining experience fighting enemies as you go. The only thing I'm not terribly pleased about that I'm aware of is the departure of the partner based system of the earlier games.

What were your opinions of the first two games? If you enjoyed those, what's wrong with this upcoming game?

[Enmity]

On a side note from everything here.

I picked up Ragnarok Odyssey the other day and have been playing the hell out of it. Personally I love the game and it is a great addition to my Vita library.

[WCP]

My son has a 3DS XL, and I've played a number of 3DS games on it. I love the hardware of the 3DS XL, and there are certain 3DS game that I really like, but honestly I think the Vita has a much better library of high quality games. I'd say that the 3DS has about 7 or 8 games that are worth playing and I think the Vita has more than that. Sure, they might be ports from other systems, or what have you, but I still think the library is just better.

Don't get it twisted, I really wish the 3DS had more big games like Luigi's Mansion and stuff like that. Unfortunately, that game is delayed to who knows when. Sure, the 3DS has WAY more games coming out this holiday, but how much of it is just shovelware for a quick buck ? I'd say most of it. The Vita has it's share of crappy games too, but the 3DS has a way larger percentage of it's library as total crap.