Exposing VGA (Video Game Grading Authority)

[badinsults]

Dangerboy, a long time contributor to DP, has put up a great video showing how VGA is nothing more than a pyramid scheme, and does nothing to actually perserve games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BbHDMXxm04

If you look at VGA auctions, most of them do not sell for any more than a regular sealed copy of the game, let alone the $100+ extra it takes to actually grade the game. If you look at the supplemental video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWWeCteSTgc), it also shows how easy it is to create a fake misprint, something that VGA actually graded. Also shown in the video is that the item itself was damaged after being sealed in the case, proving that the cases do not actually provide full protection for the game.

And let's face it, people who use VGA are not interested in preservation. Take this auction (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-NES-Trog-Prototype-Cartridge-Pre-Production-Sample-VGA-Archival-1991-/200927121502?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2ec830905e) of a NES prototype. The seller explicitly states that the ROM image of the prototype has not been dumped. How can you justify sealling up a prototype without dumping the binary? The memory on EPROMs do not last forever, especially when they are allowed to be exposed to open light like they are in this auction.

[bb_hood]

Wow, nice video. I found the part about the ventilation in the cases kinda shocking, I always assumed they were air-tight.
If they were encasing them professionally Id think they would all wear gloves and do the procedure in an area with humidity control. I mean, that seems very basic to me. OF COURSE if air can get in so can more moisture. OF COURSE it will oxidize over time.

Ive never understood the point in getting anything graded, but I also have never understood the outrage against doing it.
Lets face it, most of the people here own more video games than they have time to play. Placing sealed copies of video games in plastic tombs at 50-100$ each will not make opened video games scarce by any means. Quite frankly I really dont care what people do with their money, if someone wants to waste tons of $$ building a VGA collection or getting games graded I dont see how that affects me at all. I dont see how some chump spending hundreds or thousands on a sealed nintendo game will make a loose playable cart more expensive. Totally different buyers; hardcore collectors with alot of money to blow looking to build museum-like libraries are not gonna care about loose/used games, and simple player/collectors (aka people with brains) who have absolutely no intention on spending over 15$ for contra/mario/or any other game.

And most importantly, those cases can be opened. Just give me 5 minutes alone with one and Im sure I can get it open

[TonyTheTiger]

As much as I've grown tired of the VGA ordeal, this is a good video that clearly and concisely points out most of the problems with the whole thing. It sums up pretty much everything that needs to be said in under 20 minutes.

I'm just waiting for the day someone pays to get a game graded, cracks open the case, resubmits it, and gets a completely different grade. I'm convinced there's no meaningful quality assurance going on that can't be reproduced by any semi-diligent consumer. It's unbelievable how an organization could claim a particular expertise, forgo actually explaining said expertise (likely by filing their actual methodology under "trade secrets"), and then convince people to actually trust them based on their word alone.

[bb_hood]

I'm convinced there's no meaningful quality assurance

Thats the problem, there is no quality assurance or proof of expertise by the graders.
Now you can argue that the case will preserve the seal or condition, but I think one major reason people have stuff graded or buy graded games is they think the grade PROVES that the games are authentically sealed. If you buy a sealed game on ebay how the hell can you tell the seal is genuine by just looking at pictures or reading a description? You cant ever be 100% sure. I think people see the grading and think 'well this game was checked by some kind of expert, so the seal has to be legit'. The fact that there is proof of VGA grading open games and grading opened games that have been re-sealed is evidence that 1), the VGA encasing is no guarantee of an authentic seal; 2) there is a good chance they will grade anything (within reason) for money; and 3) THEY ARE NOT EXPERTS IN ANYTHING IN ANY WAY. Like seriously, where the hell do you go to get training on looking at shrink wrap thats 10-20 years old and giving a definite answer to whether the game is authentically sealed or not?

[Panzerfuzion]

I've heard rumors that VGA is a guy in his garage. The fact that they "SLAB" opened items such as the NWC Gold is a joke.

[Tanooki]

I can imagine how many peoples heads would implode if this was up on NA.

Sure it's opinion, but isn't that the point of an investigative reporting when you can not get the target of your piece to cooperate and explain things? I've always had a problem with VGA and he added some reasons. I never realized how that pricing tier chart worked and how it works much like a pyramid scheme. I do realize clearly they're full of shit when they're too afraid to post what their standards are and who their qualified reviewers are establishing exactly why they're experts. I've seen people at NA I'd trust far more who are friendly and super into pristine sealed stuff I'd trust far more than that smoke shrouded service for authentication. And what is up with the blister packed VGA cased MGS thing on that video? Clearly, that's a fucked up book and look at the lettering of the grading. And what of the qualified (open but not used) Namco PS1 CD. Claimed opened but not used, he makes a great point anyone could submit the same 'case or manual' art error and get themselves a unique cased gem too which is fraud.

He makes a great point about the air hole there and oxidation with old cartridges, it really is a glorified sneeze guard. If you fear oxidation or sweat, wouldn't creating a true airless vacuum in the case stop the sweats as there would be no environment inside the case so you couldn't get water with no air (H20, no 0 no water.)

[wiggyx]

I've heard rumors that VGA is a guy in his garage. The fact that they "SLAB" opened items such as the NWC Gold is a joke.

I doubt it. Considering that the company grades a large variety of items and in seemingly pretty large volume, it would be REALLY tough to do as a one or two man show.

[Atamos]

Great video, I see more and more prototypes getting graded recently, this is just wrong and even more if the game has not even been dumped.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Great video, I see more and more prototypes getting graded recently, this is just wrong and even more if the game has not even been dumped.

... is this a joke?

Are they really slabbing prototypes? What the fuck is wrong with these people?

[Ryaan1234]

... is this a joke?

Are they really slabbing prototypes? What the fuck is wrong with these people?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-NES-Trog-Prototype-Cartridge-Pre-Production-Sample-VGA-Archival-1991-/200927121502?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2ec830905e

It just boggles my mind why the seller had this prototype SEALED IN PLASTIC to preserve it, but didn't even dump the data on it. EPROMs are not a permanent method of data storage! If you look at the images, the VGA didn't even cover the UV window on the chip; so much for them being the experts. I hope he got that extra UV protection on the case.

[tom]

Wow, so what if you want to play that game and it doesn't work. He mentions it's tested, but does he have this in writing? You're screwed out of 50K if it's broke.

[Gameguy]

I hope he got that extra UV protection on the case.
Even if he did it wouldn't stop the damage. These cases are made to breath, that opening lets in regular light. It's like dealing with undeveloped film, any bit of light will damage it.

[Atarileaf]

I can imagine how many peoples heads would implode if this was up on NA.



Go post the link over there and lets see what happens :D

[Panzerfuzion]

VGA Wants that money. They will slab anything you pay them enough.

[o.pwuaioc]

Perfect video! VGA has long been bullshit, but this is proof-positive it's nothing but a scam.

[wiggyx]

Send rare item to VGA. List on eBay for way more money than it'll ever sell for. Profit?

Derp.

[FrankSerpico]

I hang around with a fair amount of people into the retro gaming scene and they aren't even aware that the VGA exists. I suspect the whole enterprise is only being kept alive by circle jerking morons from the NA forums.

[bigbacon]

capitalism at its best.

Like it or not, long as people pay the money, they'll continue. They attempted to fill an odd niche market. These types of things exist all over the place in other markets.

[Kiddo]

Is the plastic really as indestructible as the video makes it look?

That's scary to think about....

[jperryss]

I hang around with a fair amount of people into the retro gaming scene and they aren't even aware that the VGA exists. I suspect the whole enterprise is only being kept alive by circle jerking morons from the NA forums.

It wouldn't be a stretch to think that it's run by someone at NA, even if just a lurker.

[Dangerboy]

Is the plastic really as indestructible as the video makes it look?

That's scary to think about....

I embellished a little bit for the sake of comedy. In reality, the case *is* durable on 3 of the 4 sides (the back panel that acts as the venting piece is / was fairly thin. With the use of a flathead screwdriver, a hammer, and the sealing point where the bottom meets the sides however, resulted in a wonderful, 'shattering' experience.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/983822_572286089458253_1945085251_n.jpg

[wiggyx]

Smashing open VGA coffin: + 3,000 gamer points

[FieryReign]

I still don't understand the point of people getting their games encased in those things. Do people really get enjoyment out of LOOKING at a game's packaging, rather than PLAYING the games inside? Are they trying to impress people and show them off? To whom? I would laugh my ass off if someone showed me a game in one of those things in person. These aren't baseball cards or comic books. I find it hilarious...

[Rev. Link]

Even comics sealed up like this are ridiculous to me. Maybe baseball cards I can understand, since you can turn it over and still see both sides, but a comic sealed up can never be read, just like a game could never be played. It's beyond stupid.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

A well stated video but even IF VGA's grading services add no legitimate value or protection to a service, I don't think that the term "pyramid scheme" is accurate.

Yes, they're advertising a potential increased return on your game investment through giving it the VGA service, but VGA are not enlisting buyers of their services to go out and recruit others to have their games VGA graded for some type of tiered or incentivized pay-out.

So, clearly some questionable practices examined, but I don't think it's a "pyramid scheme" proper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

Personally, I don't have any vested interest in VGA or VGA related activities since I'm not a sealed game collector and I don't ever have any valuable sealed games to sell.

Also, I wish the VGA would be more public/transparent about themselves and the services that they offer. Not sure if that would make anything better ... but being clandestine about stuff like this and professing to be an "authority" while simultaneously not participating in industry events or public things ... you're going to rustle up your critics pretty quickly.

[xelement5x]

Also, I wish the VGA would be more public/transparent about themselves and the services that they offer. Not sure if that would make anything better ... but being clandestine about stuff like this and professing to be an "authority" while simultaneously not participating in industry events or public things ... you're going to rustle up your critics pretty quickly.

Agreed, how they have managed to get so many people to buy into it with such a thin brand and almost no information about the process is disturbing to me. If there was a person who was the face of the VGA and talked about what they do they might actually get a bit of credibility. As people have learned with other collectibles like cards and coins, a grade is only as valuable as the credibility of the organization doing the grading.

[Graham Mitchell]

Dangerboy, you touched on the one major complaint I have with VGA grading, which is the inherent selfishness of sealing away a game so that it can no longer be enjoyed by anybody. There are only so many Panzer Dragoon Sagas or Snatchers out there. If people keep slabbing them and pulling more and more of them out of circulation, they'll become harder to come by, and more expensive as a result. The only purpose of it is to boost the fragile ego of the collector and put them in an exclusive "neenerneenerneener" club.

It's just my opinion, but I feel games are meant to be played, not hoarded and sealed away. Unfortunately, this practice does just that.

[Greg2600]

I've always felt sealed game collectors needed their heads' examined, more so than the rest of us simple gaming pack rats. However, I admire their tenacity. The VGA stuff I KNOW was garbage from day one, because I lived it in the sports card hobby, which is now actually dead in part thanks to grading services. It's a racket, nothing more. I don't approve of it one iota.

[bb_hood]

Dangerboy, you touched on the one major complaint I have with VGA grading, which is the inherent selfishness of sealing away a game so that it can no longer be enjoyed by anybody. There are only so many Panzer Dragoon Sagas or Snatchers out there. If people keep slabbing them and pulling more and more of them out of circulation, they'll become harder to come by, and more expensive as a result. The only purpose of it is to boost the fragile ego of the collector and put them in an exclusive "neenerneenerneener" club.

It's just my opinion, but I feel games are meant to be played, not hoarded and sealed away. Unfortunately, this practice does just that.

Sega CD systems will play burned games, and so will my Saturn thanks to a 30$ mod chip. If you really 'just want to play' these expensive games there are alternatives to buying sealed copies and opening them. If you cant afford an opened/used copy then download and burn your own.
I own 1 copy of snatcher and Ive made a copy of it to play for myself. I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.
Also, the cases can be opened so the argument that 'slabbing' them takes them out of circulation is not a good one. If someone wanted to play a slabbed game its not impossible, just take it out of the stupid case.

[Bojay1997]

Sega CD systems will play burned games, and so will my Saturn thanks to a 30$ mod chip. If you really 'just want to play' these expensive games there are alternatives to buying sealed copies and opening them. If you cant afford an opened/used copy then download and burn your own.
I own 1 copy of snatcher and Ive made a copy of it to play for myself. I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.
Also, the cases can be opened so the argument that 'slabbing' them takes them out of circulation is not a good one. If someone wanted to play a slabbed game its not impossible, just take it out of the stupid case.

Strongly agree. There is no practical difference between someone owning a slabbed game, a sealed game, a CIB game or a loose game with respect to its impact on the overall quantity in circulation. I know plenty of collectors who regularly play their collections but still own more games than they will ever play and plenty of collectors who have multiple copies of games simply because they are too lazy to put them back into circulation by selling or giving them away. I personally think VGA grading is silly, but I don't have some moral or ethical issue with people who choose to use the service nor do I think they are hurting me personally or the greater collector community or the hobby by doing so.

[JakeM]

Comics being sealed I can understand from a preservation point, prevents wear an tear, plus acid on our fingers destroys the ink and paper after decades. 16 century paper will still be around and most things printed within the last 100 years will decay to dust.

I really enjoyed that video, video games being sealed up is beyond stupid. A game isnt worth anything if it cant be played for whatever reason.

I posted the video on NA, but Im not going to go back there.

I had a friend in high school who was still playing NES and he really never left that phase of his gaming life, I bet now he has a copy of NWC, at least a reproduction, but I hate him now so I hope he cries when he watches that video. SOB owes me two concert tickets he stole from my girl friend at the time (I still like her, and were buddies now), dont ask what band it was. Ive sense learned my ways musically.

[Graham Mitchell]

Sega CD systems will play burned games, and so will my Saturn thanks to a 30$ mod chip. If you really 'just want to play' these expensive games there are alternatives to buying sealed copies and opening them. If you cant afford an opened/used copy then download and burn your own.
I own 1 copy of snatcher and Ive made a copy of it to play for myself. I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.
Also, the cases can be opened so the argument that 'slabbing' them takes them out of circulation is not a good one. If someone wanted to play a slabbed game its not impossible, just take it out of the stupid case.

Despite what everyone tells you, burned discs put a lot of stress on those old lasers. Even following all the recommendations (discs with a certain type of reflective surfaces, slow burn speeds, reburing multiple times) I've had problems with burned discs.

I have made several PC-Engine backups that just will not play. You can hear the laser searching and searching and loading sometimes in excess of 3 minutes before anything comes up, there are frequently problems with audio skipping, FMV-hiccups and general crashing. I had a burned Sega CD-Snatcher that locked up consistently 30 minutes in, every time. And, the most unfortunate of all my examples, the motor on my Amiga CD-32 completely died due to using burned discs. They're not benign to the machine, and they were never designed to use anything but the appropriately manufactured disc.

We can agree to disagree, but this is my experience. Later machines, like Saturn and Playstation may tolerate it better, but I've never really experimented with them due to my experience with the older machines.

[Bojay1997]

Dangerboy, you touched on the one major complaint I have with VGA grading, which is the inherent selfishness of sealing away a game so that it can no longer be enjoyed by anybody. There are only so many Panzer Dragoon Sagas or Snatchers out there. If people keep slabbing them and pulling more and more of them out of circulation, they'll become harder to come by, and more expensive as a result. The only purpose of it is to boost the fragile ego of the collector and put them in an exclusive "neenerneenerneener" club.

It's just my opinion, but I feel games are meant to be played, not hoarded and sealed away. Unfortunately, this practice does just that.

The problem with your argument is that most collectors who use VGA only collect sealed games anyway, so whether they use VGA or just keep the game sealed, it's still never going to be played. There are lots of non-sealed copies of PDS and Snatcher out there, certainly many, many times more than the relatively small number of sealed copies out there and the even smaller number that get VGA'd. Ultimately, I think collectors like yourself are just upset that prices on good, older games are going up across the board. It's just what happens when the growing population of gamers hit their prime income earning years and become willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money for games. Eventually the bubble will burst, but until then it doesn't make any sense to spend time blaming things like the VGA that while they may be annoying and uncessary for most of us, have little or no impact on prices or supply.

[JakeM]

Ultimately, I think collectors like yourself are just upset that prices on good, older games are going up across the board. It's just what happens when the growing population of gamers hit their prime income earning years and become willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money for games. Eventually the bubble will burst, but until then it doesn't make any sense to spend time blaming things like the VGA that while they may be annoying and uncessary for most of us, have little or no impact on prices or supply.

I think people who dont have much money to collect and want the real copies of games can be mad about this organization. Sure, its not forever sealing the vault on these games, because theres emulation that people can turn to to play older expensive games. But a ton of people dont like emulation, and they dont have the money to get games like Guardian Heroes (in english) and whatnot. This grading company is making retro collecting a luxury, and theres just something wrong about that when its about childhood memories. Too many people who are into this sort of thing are drunk/high on nostalgia, and its a little creepy theyll spend this kind of money just to have those things SEALED UP in a slab for them to look at, and as the video points out, its not air tight, so it is in fact a total waste of money. All this price gauging for nothing.

[T2KFreeker]

We in the Comic Book world have been dealing with this crap for years. CGC has been offering the same thing for comics for over 10 years now. Thing is, if you got something super rare like an Action Comics #1, okay, I get the point of "Slabbing" it. The damn thing is ultra rare and very fragile. Still, it just seems ridiculous to me, not to mention that it can easily be counterfeited these days. Video games though? Man, they are meant to be played. Slabbing a game just seems like such a waste to me. Bunch of Shelf Monkeys showing off their perfectly pristine and Germ free collection. Yeah, you look at your box gallery in plastic and I'll enjoy playing my games, thanx'.

[FieryReign]

I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.

Yes it does make you a hoarder, look up the definition. Most people could care less if you want to waste your money on something as retarded as getting a game "graded" and put in some plastic case, by some mysterious "authority". It won't stop me from laughing at you and making fun of your stupidity.

[Bojay1997]

I think people who dont have much money to collect and want the real copies of games can be mad about this organization. Sure, its not forever sealing the vault on these games, because theres emulation that people can turn to to play older expensive games. But a ton of people dont like emulation, and they dont have the money to get games like Guardian Heroes (in english) and whatnot. This grading company is making retro collecting a luxury, and theres just something wrong about that when its about childhood memories. Too many people who are into this sort of thing are drunk/high on nostalgia, and its a little creepy theyll spend this kind of money just to have those things SEALED UP in a slab for them to look at, and as the video points out, its not air tight, so it is in fact a total waste of money. All this price gauging for nothing.

Again, it has zero impact on you. Just because a small group of people are buying and selling VGA games at outrageous prices, it doesn't mean that a non-sealed or cartridge only copy of Guardian Heroes is suddenly super expensive. The reality is that many more people are collecting and playing older games than have ever done so before and as a result, prices have gone up as supply has shrunk and demand has increased. It's as simple as that. 99% of older games out there are not sealed and of that 1% that are, fewer still are sent to VGA. I understand that people want someone or something to blame, but maybe a better use of your time is to find a less expensive hobby or a better way of earning a living so you can afford the ever increasing prices because even if VGA folded tomorrow, game prices on older, good games will continue to rise.

[bb_hood]

I think people who dont have much money to collect and want the real copies of games can be mad about this organization. Sure, its not forever sealing the vault on these games, because theres emulation that people can turn to to play older expensive games. But a ton of people dont like emulation, and they dont have the money to get games like Guardian Heroes (in english) and whatnot. This grading company is making retro collecting a luxury, and theres just something wrong about that when its about childhood memories. Too many people who are into this sort of thing are drunk/high on nostalgia, and its a little creepy theyll spend this kind of money just to have those things SEALED UP in a slab for them to look at, and as the video points out, its not air tight, so it is in fact a total waste of money. All this price gauging for nothing.

If people dont like emulation and want to play hundreds of dollars for one game, that is their prerogative.
Flash carts are an excellent option, and instead of paying 400$ for a loose little samson go buy a powerpak for 145$ and play Samson, Stadium Events and almost any other nes game you may wish.
The company is not making collecting or playing games a luxury. They grade SEALED GAMES, nothing opened.

And think about this, if VGA did not even exist, these hardcore collectors who spend 50$-100$ each to slab games would have alot more money to blow. What would they spend THAT money on? MORE GAMES, then THAT might cause games to become harder to find.

And yeah, people who have large collections of sealed game with the idea that they have shrinkwrapped gold will have no intention on opening them. Therefore placing them in a plastic tomb isnt gonna change anything.

You are right, this price guaging is for nothing because the fine folks at VGA are not experts or specialists. This type of shit will only 'ruin' classic gaming and collecting if you let it bother you. There are many alternatives to buying collecting sealed games.


Yes it does make you a hoarder, look up the definition. Most people could care less if you want to waste your money on something as retarded as getting a game "graded" and put in some plastic case, by some mysterious "authority". It won't stop me from laughing at you and making fun of your stupidity.

And this.. just retarded. So I own a (one copy) video game that Im not constantly playing.. Im a hoarder? The same could be said about everyone here. Laugh all you want.

[o.pwuaioc]

If people dont like emulation and want to play hundreds of dollars for one game, that is their prerogative.
Flash carts are an excellent option, and instead of paying 400$ for a loose little samson go buy a powerpak for 145$ and play Samson, Stadium Events and almost any other nes game you may wish.
The company is not making collecting or playing games a luxury. They grade SEALED GAMES, nothing opened.

And think about this, if VGA did not even exist, these hardcore collectors who spend 50$-100$ each to slab games would have alot more money to blow. What would they spend THAT money on? MORE GAMES, then THAT might cause games to become harder to find.

And yeah, people who have large collections of sealed game with the idea that they have shrinkwrapped gold will have no intention on opening them. Therefore placing them in a plastic tomb isnt gonna change anything.

You are right, this price guaging is for nothing because the fine folks at VGA are not experts or specialists. This type of shit will only 'ruin' classic gaming and collecting if you let it bother you. There are many alternatives to buying collecting sealed games.

Fact check: http://www.vggrader.com/about_whatwegrade.aspx

"Qualified Grading Scale (items are accompanied by documentation) for opened package with new contents video games, consoles and accessories from all years "

[bigbacon]

how much money other collectors have at their disposal to spend is of not care to other collectors or VGA. Thats the way it goes. If you don't have a lot of money, you can't collect like others with money can.

Think of example like classic cars. If you have money, you'll have nice, mint cars and probably put lots of money into them or spent lots of money to just buy them out right. the people selling the cars don't care if I want to buy it but can't afford it, there is someone out there who will. If they can't sell it at their asking price, they'll lower it until someone can buy it.

So if you cant afford the asking price, it doesn't change anything until no one can afford or is willing to pay the asking price.

Look at ebay, there are some pretty ridiculous pricing going on. Look at completed bundles. I was seeing like a SNES bundle with like 2 or 3 games and 2 controllers and they are selling in the 300+ range... I looked really hard today after looking on ebay of just cataloging everything I have and tossing it up on ebay for some stupid amount, and I'm pretty sure someone would buy it and I don't even have a huge collection of games for the consoles I own. Heck, I own a gamecube and don't even have any games for it.

I mean, dont understand the butt hurt over VGA. They have a service that peopel are obviously willing to pay for. Then people are obviously willing to pay the high prices for good. VGA may not be 'experts' but then who is? Who defines who the experts are? Mayber they are experts because obviously they are doing it and making money of it. Why don't some of you start a competing company doing something similar if you think you are better than they are? You can even do it for free and I suspect you'd get bored quickly and start charging and then be hooked on monies.

[JakeM]

find a less expensive hobby or a better way of earning a living so you can afford the ever increasing prices

I just wanted to quote what you said there, and not really comment on that.

Comics and sports cards have already been brought up, and its more than likely that video games are going down the same route. Its only going to continue as more and more people get into collecting just to collect, and not to play the games as well. This type of collecting does take the fun out of these games by putting them into these slabs, theyre not toys anymore, theyre collectibles. I took my younger brother to Toy Story 2, and that was a good movie that applies to this very well.

And if bb_hood had watched the video he would have seen the Namco "misprint" that was graded. Also should see the sealed games that are being opened and slabbed to show the contents are in them. Yeah, think about that.

[Graham Mitchell]

Fact check: http://www.vggrader.com/about_whatwegrade.aspx

"Qualified Grading Scale (items are accompanied by documentation) for opened package with new contents video games, consoles and accessories from all years "

Right, and in Dangerboy's video he explains that the Namco Museum "misprint" was opened, and somebody could have easily swapped the manual out.

Look, I'm not trying to offend anybody, and I'm sorry if any of my comments were hurtful. I've had a shitty week as my house was burglarlized and over $10K worth of stuff was stolen (thankfully the only video game stuff they took was common and replaceable except for a modded SNES.) As such my manners are not what they should be today, and I apologize. I have plenty of games that I don't intend to play so my venom at the whole thing doesn't make any sense, and is a product of personal crap.

The point of my posting really was that my ONLY concern about VGA grading was taking working games out of comission. And though I do pretty well for myself, there are some games out there that my friends will never afford, and that's unfortunate. While this practice may not be directly correlated with rising prices, as some of you have pointed out, it probably isn't helping with that.

[badinsults]

I still don't understand the point of people getting their games encased in those things. Do people really get enjoyment out of LOOKING at a game's packaging, rather than PLAYING the games inside? Are they trying to impress people and show them off? To whom? I would laugh my ass off if someone showed me a game in one of those things in person. These aren't baseball cards or comic books. I find it hilarious...


I think there is little evidence that people who use VGA are doing it for aethetics. This is about money, plain and simple. The perception is if something is "graded", that it is somehow more authentic, and therefore worth far more. The only problem with that mentality is that there are actually very few games, even now, that command the $100+ that would be required to justify the cost of grading the game (as pointed out by Dangerboy).

I don't know why I care about the VGA thing, since I haven't collected video games in years. I guess I do care about proper preservation, and I was never convinced that leaving games sealed amounted to preservation. The fact that they encased an undumped prototype and the gold NWC without even covering the EPROM windows really does show that the people running this outfit don't know shit about preservation.

[bb_hood]

I just wanted to quote what you said there, and not really comment on that.

Comics and sports cards have already been brought up, and its more than likely that video games are going down the same route. Its only going to continue as more and more people get into collecting just to collect, and not to play the games as well. This type of collecting does take the fun out of these games by putting them into these slabs, theyre not toys anymore, theyre collectibles. I took my younger brother to Toy Story 2, and that was a good movie that applies to this very well.

And if bb_hood had watched the video he would have seen the Namco "misprint" that was graded. Also should see the sealed games that are being opened and slabbed to show the contents are in them. Yeah, think about that.

I did watch the video, and I think the point is they are not experts at what they grade.
If you think this type of collecting takes the fun out, then dont do it. Getting upset over what other people do with inanimate objects is pointless. Just because someone has nostagic feelings toward a copy of Guardian Heroes or any other expensive game does not give them exclusive rights to owning a copy or being able to buy a copy for 5$. Seriously, these are just toys. If you want them and cant afford them get a job.


Right, and in Dangerboy's video he explains that the Namco Museum "misprint" was opened, and somebody could have easily swapped the manual out.

Look, I'm not trying to offend anybody, and I'm sorry if any of my comments were hurtful. I've had a shitty week as my house was burglarlized and over $10K worth of stuff was stolen (thankfully the only video game stuff they took was common and replaceable except for a modded SNES.) As such my manners are not what they should be today, and I apologize. I have plenty of games that I don't intend to play so my venom at the whole thing doesn't make any sense, and is a product of personal crap.

The point of my posting really was that my ONLY concern about VGA grading was taking working games out of comission. And though I do pretty well for myself, there are some games out there that my friends will never afford, and that's unfortunate. While this practice may not be directly correlated with rising prices, as some of you have pointed out, it probably isn't helping with that.

I dont think anyone is offended, I sure am not. I am sorry your house was burglarized, that is terrible.
I just disagree when people say they are taking games out of commision, I mean the cases CAN be opened. If someone is gonna pay to get it slabbed they probably wouldnt open it to play it anyway. If someone has no intention on selling said game encasing it in plastic wont make any difference.

[o.pwuaioc]

I mean, dont understand the butt hurt over VGA. They have a service that peopel are obviously willing to pay for. Then people are obviously willing to pay the high prices for good. VGA may not be 'experts' but then who is? Who defines who the experts are? Mayber they are experts because obviously they are doing it and making money of it. Why don't some of you start a competing company doing something similar if you think you are better than they are? You can even do it for free and I suspect you'd get bored quickly and start charging and then be hooked on monies.

This is quite honestly the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum. I dare you to take this to any other field and see how it holds up. "So what if charlatan X isn't a real doctor. Who defines who real doctors are? Mayber they are experts because obviously they are doing it and making money of it."

Totally legit.

[wiggyx]

I did watch the video, and I think the point is they are not experts at what they grade.
If you think this type of collecting takes the fun out, then dont do it. Getting upset over what other people do with inanimate objects is pointless. Just because someone has nostagic feelings toward a copy of Guardian Heroes or any other expensive game does not give them exclusive rights to owning a copy or being able to buy a copy for 5$. Seriously, these are just toys. If you want them and cant afford them get a job.



I dont think anyone is offended, I sure am not. I am sorry your house was burglarized, that is terrible.
I just disagree when people say they are taking games out of commision, I mean the cases CAN be opened. If someone is gonna pay to get it slabbed they probably wouldnt open it to play it anyway. If someone has no intention on selling said game encasing it in plastic wont make any difference.

Really? Seriously, that makes you sound about 12 years old.

[sloan]

I think there is little evidence that people who use VGA are doing it for aethetics. This is about money, plain and simple.

The real heart of the matter, and it serves to do nothing but artificially drive prices upward.



I mean, dont understand the butt hurt over VGA. They have a service that peopel are obviously willing to pay for.

Faulty logic. Using that line of reasoning, it could be justified that just about anything that people are willing to pay for is somehow legitimate and ethical. There is demand for illicit narcotics, but what about the people hurt in the addictions and crime associated?

Basically, if a process exists for nothing more than inflating prices on a given category of consumer goods, then that process is nefarious in nature. VGA grading is nothing more than a means of gaining 'return on investment' for speculators who are ruining the market (and fun factor) for so many others.

[JakeM]

Graham Mitchell, I am very sorry to hear youve been robbed.



Getting upset over what other people do with inanimate objects is pointless. Just because someone has nostagic feelings toward a copy of Guardian Heroes or any other expensive game does not give them exclusive rights to owning a copy or being able to buy a copy for 5$.
I wont make a sex toy joke hahahaha. But you have to say that were all getting shafted by $130 collector grade copies on ebay for that game. Someone up there was talking about classic cars.....comparing collecting classic video games with classic cars, I really didnt think Id read here. I just never thought when I was a kid that these games would be so inflated in price.



If you think this type of collecting takes the fun out, then dont do it. Seriously, these are just toys. If you want them and cant afford them get a job.
Interesting how you and Bojay went directly to me not having a good enough job as reasons for me being pissed about higher video game prices. I dont have a job right now, and maybe not having disposable income has made me more wise than others on what I spend my money on. Ill buy a classic game, but not one I cant play that has a 95 rating inside a plastic case.

[sloan]

I posted the video on NA, but Im not going to go back there.


I went over there to see what kind of reactions it was getting, but I did not see the thread anywhere. You sure you posted it at NA?

[JakeM]

I went over there to see what kind of reactions it was getting, but I did not see the thread anywhere. You sure you posted it at NA?

http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=104142

so then i followed that guys link to the video thread and posted it and then got this only reply. i was too obviously trying to stir shit with the vga lovers. theyre not biting. i joined just to post that. not effective at all. i just dont really have an interest in a forum only dedicated to one company.


Just to make it clearer, megaevilman first posted the video here: http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=...

I don't get your urge to become a member without introducing yourself, and just posting this youtube video. What are you expecting, starting some major shit stirring around? Sorry dude, but your intervention is written TROLL all over it, and we're usually not interested in these kind of behaviours.

On a side note, while this guy is trying really hard to make a logical discourse to discredit completely VGA, his whole argumentation is incredibly flawed and one-sided. He uses the stupidiest examples to prove his points, and he's definitely out of the line to discuss sealed collecting. Really, there's no need to go on about this video cause it is almost totally meaningless.

This said, the guy is probably a nice dude and should join this forum.

[Bojay1997]

Graham Mitchell, I am very sorry to hear youve been robbed.



I wont make a sex toy joke hahahaha. But you have to say that were all getting shafted by $130 collector grade copies on ebay for that game. Someone up there was talking about classic cars.....comparing collecting classic video games with classic cars, I really didnt think Id read here. I just never thought when I was a kid that these games would be so inflated in price.



Interesting how you and Bojay went directly to me not having a good enough job as reasons for me being pissed about higher video game prices. I dont have a job right now, and maybe not having disposable income has made me more wise than others on what I spend my money on. Ill buy a classic game, but not one I cant play that has a 95 rating inside a plastic case.

Look, nobody who has posted in this thread as far as I know has any VGA games or has used VGA or ever will use VGA. That's the point you keep missing. Most collectors don't use VGA and don't buy VGA games and don't care about it. Similarly, most collectors don't buy or sell sealed games. That doesn't change the fact that older, great games are steadily increasing in price in line with supply and demand. I have no idea about your personal job or financial situation and frankly I don't care about it. The reality is that more and more people are buying and playing or buying and collecting older, good games and that has resulted in higher prices. You can either pay the higher prices or wait out the market or move on to something else. Bitching about some unrelated foolish thing like VGA isn't going to make the games you want any cheaper and it certainly isn't going to convince people who use VGA to stop using it.

[bb_hood]

Interesting how you and Bojay went directly to me not having a good enough job as reasons for me being pissed about higher video game prices. I dont have a job right now, and maybe not having disposable income has made me more wise than others on what I spend my money on. Ill buy a classic game, but not one I cant play that has a 95 rating inside a plastic case.

I dont know anything about your situation and my comment is not meant to be personal. Im unemployed as well.
I dont see the point in complaining about prices when it comes to used vintage games (especially the rare highly-sought after stuff). Ive never understand why some people have no qualms about spending 40-60$ on a new release xbox/ps3 title (which is readily available in most chain stores), but paying 90$-120$ for a sega saturn game that has been out of print for 14+ years that many people want is so unheard of.

There is always a cheaper option than buying a mint complete in box copy of whatever on ebay.


That's the point you keep missing. Most collectors don't use VGA and don't buy VGA games and don't care about it. Similarly, most collectors don't buy or sell sealed games. That doesn't change the fact that older, great games are steadily increasing in price in line with supply and demand. I have no idea about your personal job or financial situation and frankly I don't care about it. The reality is that more and more people are buying and playing or buying and collecting older, good games and that has resulted in higher prices. You can either pay the higher prices or wait out the market or move on to something else. Bitching about some unrelated foolish thing like VGA isn't going to make the games you want any cheaper and it certainly isn't going to convince people who use VGA to stop using it.

Exactly. The prices people ask for VGA rated games has nothing to do with used game values. Totally diff subject.
Arguing that other peoples' use of VGA's grading system is affecting you or me is just nonsense.

[JakeM]

I have no clue why you replied to me then. By having that tone when talking to me, I thought you took offense to me saying those people were high/drunk on nostalgia or something. I have no clue why youre talking to me if were both not buying VGA stuff.

Prices are going up in general, but they are going up more with "authenticating them" like in other collectors markets, cant you see that? Just like with toys, comic books, cars and antiques. Except these guys have proven themselves to be greedy idiots, and THATS why I have a problem with them. Theyre artificially increasing prices based on nothing, and the slabs are crap. Theyre making people jack up their prices for games they want to sell. I met a guy once who took pride in his game being a 85, and I told him I would have given him a 90 for half the price.

Stop going after someone because they have an opinion when you dont even have the opposite of it. I can say what I want about prices being unfair.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

You know, where "perceived value" is concerned, tangential to the VGA issue, as a Nintendo Game & Watch collector eBay is a massive fucking double-edged sword.

On one side, it's great to have a global marketplace to hunt for items like G&W games that were more heavily marketed, manufactured, distributed and were much more successful in regions OTHER THAN North America.

On the other side you've got eBay sellers with virtual storefronts that allow them to have Buy it Now auctions that last 30 days and then automatically re-list.

Similar to the outrageously priced VGA game listings on eBay that will never sell, you've got Game & Watch sellers that list their items at two or three hundred percent of the current eBay fair market value (ending auction values of G&W games that actually sold) - let them sit endlessly at that price, and then, to novice sellers who search listing prices and not ending sold auction values - create this inflated "perceived" value.

You've got users with though processes like - "Hey, look at that Super Mario Bros. Game & Watch listed at $299.99! I've got one of those, I'll list it for the same price!" where the actual fair value on that game is closer to $60.

It's insane and it makes it all but impossible to find resonably priced BIN Game & Watch games and every auction winds up being a wild fight and final second sniping war.

I'm sure that this is a common problem with a lot of collectibles on ebay, but I've noted that it's a particular problem on eBay, sellers themselves causing inflated sense of value based on ridiculously over-priced listing.

[badinsults]

http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=104142

so then i followed that guys link to the video thread and posted it and then got this only reply. i was too obviously trying to stir shit with the vga lovers. theyre not biting. i joined just to post that. not effective at all. i just dont really have an interest in a forum only dedicated to one company.


You are not going to get an effective debate on Nintendo Age on this issue. There are too many influential people there invested directly into VGA. Especially since everyone's "get games at any cost" mentality is really the driving force behind the recent increase in the price of games. VGA is just a subset of the whole deal there.



A well stated video but even IF VGA's grading services add no legitimate value or protection to a service, I don't think that the term "pyramid scheme" is accurate.

Yes, they're advertising a potential increased return on your game investment through giving it the VGA service, but VGA are not enlisting buyers of their services to go out and recruit others to have their games VGA graded for some type of tiered or incentivized pay-out.

So, clearly some questionable practices examined, but I don't think it's a "pyramid scheme" proper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

Personally, I don't have any vested interest in VGA or VGA related activities since I'm not a sealed game collector and I don't ever have any valuable sealed games to sell.

Also, I wish the VGA would be more public/transparent about themselves and the services that they offer. Not sure if that would make anything better ... but being clandestine about stuff like this and professing to be an "authority" while simultaneously not participating in industry events or public things ... you're going to rustle up your critics pretty quickly.

Perhaps not a pyramid scheme, but their pricing scheme is dependent on the "value" of a game. A lot of these VGA auctions are done by people directly involved with the company. If they make it "appear" that a particular sealed game sold for a high value, then they can charge more for a game. Why is grading not a flat rate? And there is the fact they nickel-and-dime on everything. What some photographs of your game? $5-$12. Clean the game? $3. Summary of the grade? $5-$15. Why the hell would you have to pay extra for an explanation of the grading?


All things considered, if you look at the EBay history for VGA games, they don't really sell for more than their un-graded counterparts, aside from a few oddities ($10,000 for a VGA sealed copy of Super Mario 3D Land (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mario-3D-Land-VGA-U100-Nintendo-3DS-NEW-SEALED-NES-SNES-N64-GC-GB-Wii-/130862793873?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1e7807c491), a game still available in stores? Yeah right (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mario-3D-Land-VGA-U100-Nintendo-3DS-NEW-SEALED-NES-SNES-N64-GC-GB-Wii-/130863043306?)). Though we rant and rave about this, I don't think that VGA actually is affecting the prices of games. Obviously the service is limited by how fast they can pump out graded games, and their backlog of many weeks to months indicates that they are a pretty small-time operation.

[Bojay1997]

I have no clue why you replied to me then. By having that tone when talking to me, I thought you took offense to me saying those people were high/drunk on nostalgia or something. I have no clue why youre talking to me if were both not buying VGA stuff.

Prices are going up in general, but they are going up more with "authenticating them" like in other collectors markets, cant you see that? Just like with toys, comic books, cars and antiques. Except these guys have proven themselves to be greedy idiots, and THATS why I have a problem with them. Theyre artificially increasing prices based on nothing, and the slabs are crap. Theyre making people jack up their prices for games they want to sell. I met a guy once who took pride in his game being a 85, and I told him I would have given him a 90 for half the price.

Stop going after someone because they have an opinion when you dont even have the opposite of it. I can say what I want about prices being unfair.

I can't tell if you're mentally challenged or just really young and immature. There is no requirement that someone have an opposite opinion from someone else to raise valid points and arguments on this forum. If you aren't interested in people challenging your statements, don't post here. This isn't a black and white issue and there aren't just two possible points of view. Nobody has attacked you in any way. If you can't handle open and honest discussions, this isn't the forum for you.

[JakeM]

You are not going to get an effective debate on Nintendo Age on this issue. There are too many influential people there invested directly into VGA. Especially since everyone's "get games at any cost" mentality is really the driving force behind the recent increase in the price of games. VGA is just a subset of the whole deal there.

I wasnt trying to get a debate, just posted it after someone posted heads would implode if it showed up there. Ive heard and see some stupid things about the fanatics there.

[badinsults]

I wasnt trying to get a debate, just posted it after someone posted heads would implode if it showed up there. Ive heard and see some stupid things about the fanatics there.

Heads won't explode. It is like arguing with a brick wall, shouting as hard as you can to make it tumble down. It is not going to work. It is an exercise in futility, and whether you are posting such things just to troll, or out of legitimate concern about the hobby. You don't see me posting over there, for instance.

[JakeM]

Ok, i found that one comment i saw to be funny at least. I dont need to go back there again.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

...Perhaps not a pyramid scheme, but their pricing scheme is dependent on the "value" of a game. A lot of these VGA auctions are done by people directly involved with the company. If they make it "appear" that a particular sealed game sold for a high value, then they can charge more for a game. Why is grading not a flat rate? And there is the fact they nickel-and-dime on everything. What some photographs of your game? $5-$12. Clean the game? $3. Summary of the grade? $5-$15. Why the hell would you have to pay extra for an explanation of the grading?

Yeah, I don't discount that there are some unexplained and eyebrow-raising practices that the VGA does not appear to have any interest in publicly explaining or being transparent about, but Dangerboy threw the term "pyramid scheme" around more than a few times and I really don't think that that's a good fit for what may be occurring here.

A pyramid scheme is a very specific set of circumstances with a small group of people getting a larger group of people to pay them membership for access to services that will allegedly pay out if a greater number of individuals are recruited into the pay-up-the-pyramid for membership/access. It's pretty formulaic, THIS if anything is just an organization creating the perception of value based on an allegedly authoritative grade.

[otoko]

Do they have a slab big enough for arcades? I want them to grade those too!

http://www.sincerelychris.com/pichost/IMG_0080small.jpg

It is also a prototype so it should be slabbed... Right?

[swlovinist]

Informative video. Just want to first say that I am not a supporter of VGA, although there are several folks here I consider good collector friends I know do it. If people want to collect/slab/"coffin" VGA and that is their thing, good for them. In my game collection which is rather extensive I don't have a single VGA item. It is a personal choice. There is no doubt the aspect that the market of these items long term is questionable, the reason why I have not done it. I would just like to say and have said in the past, collect what you are passionate about. I personally don't have a problem with re sellers, as my game collection needs to thank many of them . Bottom line like others have said: If you think something is silly, ridiculous, over priced, or not your thing...don't buy it.

[Ryaan1234]

There appear to be posts missing that were here yesterday. I think somebody is censoring this thread. I thought I'd put that out there.

[skaar]

There appear to be posts missing that were here yesterday. I think somebody is censoring this thread. I thought I'd put that out there.

I'd rather this stay on topic, but I did chuckle at the removed post last night. It's funny how some things never go away.

[Panzerfuzion]

The bottom line is, VGA is a plight on the gaming community. Weather you can afford it or not VGA goes against everything that is right in the world. Video games were created as a distraction from the truth of reality... The reality that we are all going to die. When you package that truth up into a peice of plastic you are packing up a peice of a child's soul. You're taking away from the psychokinetic energy that makes us whole. Without video games we are only a partial peice of are true self walking the plaines lost. Don't let the evils from within package up your souls, don't let them trap your childhood into a peice of plastic.

[Emuaust]

There appear to be posts missing that were here yesterday. I think somebody is censoring this thread. I thought I'd put that out there.


I think you need to relax

[jonebone]

I collect VGA games, I didn't watch the video, but I also loathe VGA Qualified grading. It certainly is a joke and people have frankensteined items together (taking a Mint box and then finding Mint contents). It's a joke and some people just use it to profit. I have no desires to own any Qualified games.

And personally, sealed games have been an acquired taste. I started out as a CIB guy and still own at least 1,000 CIBs and a few sets. But CIBs are pretty easy for the most part if you can afford them. Sealed collecting adds an extra dimension of difficulty. It's like the difference between Mario and Ninja Gaiden, both are great games, but Mario is generally a cakewalk while Ninja Gaiden may make you break controllers. And if you're brand new to video games, you probably would start with Mario. Same thing applies to collecting, some people want to collect more difficult stuff for the fun.

And also, for the record, I do believe games are meant to be played. However, as a married adult with adult responsbilities, I simply don't have the time to play games like I would want to. Collecting is a nice adult hobby that keeps me in tune with video games, even if I don't have enough time to play them all.

VGA has some flaws but I'm comfortable paying for the service they provide.

[Buyatari]

The bottom line is, VGA is a plight on the gaming community. Weather you can afford it or not VGA goes against everything that is right in the world. Video games were created as a distraction from the truth of reality... The reality that we are all going to die. When you package that truth up into a peice of plastic you are packing up a peice of a child's soul. You're taking away from the psychokinetic energy that makes us whole. Without video games we are only a partial peice of are true self walking the plaines lost. Don't let the evils from within package up your souls, don't let them trap your childhood into a peice of plastic.

This Pinocchio syndrome is so out of control.

Games are not meant to do ANYTHING. In most cases we are talking about plastic,paper some cardboard and a circuit board. No heart beat. No brainwaves. No hopes and dreams. No soul.

[Buyatari]

Do they have a slab big enough for arcades? I want them to grade those too!

It is also a prototype so it should be slabbed... Right?

If you can document the origin they might agree to it. Seems almost anything video game related is fair game these days.

Here is a megaman sketch (not mine) that they just authenticated.

http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u630/sealed99/mm3_zpsac987fdb.jpg

[JakeM]

I collect VGA games, I didn't watch the video, but I also loathe VGA Qualified grading.

VGA has some flaws but I'm comfortable paying for the service they provide.

SO you just want them to put your games in plastic boxes?

[Buyatari]

SO you just want them to put your games in plastic boxes?

Plastic in plastic !

[jonebone]

SO you just want them to put your games in plastic boxes?

What part of grading do you not understand? It's more about A) Assigning an independent grade that is regarded as "Fact" (even though it's not, but that's another thread) and B) Authenticating that the seal is legit.

The acrylic cases are just a fancy bonus. And it certainly takes the guesswork out of the word "MINT". You buy the same game from 100 different sellers described as Mint and you probably get grades from anywhere to 75 to 90 if you're lucky.

[JakeM]

What part of grading do you not understand? It's more about A) Assigning an independent grade that is regarded as "Fact" (even though it's not, but that's another thread) and B) Authenticating that the seal is legit.

The acrylic cases are just a fancy bonus. And it certainly takes the guesswork out of the word "MINT". You buy the same game from 100 different sellers described as Mint and you probably get grades from anywhere to 75 to 90 if you're lucky.


I collect VGA games, I didn't watch the video, but I also loathe VGA Qualified grading. It certainly is a joke... VGA has some flaws but I'm comfortable paying for the service they provide.

So.....if you hate their grading, then all youre getting from them that you like is putting your games in plastic boxes. Id do it for half the price for you without the grading stickers. You should watch the video, it shows that the boxes arent air tight so theres no preservation, they are sneeze guards as he said.

And Earthworm Jim, games are more special than toys, they come alive on your tv and do fancier stuff, which is why the idea of putting them in plastic is so weird to some, including myself.

[Bojay1997]

So.....if you hate their grading, then all youre getting from them that you like is putting your games in plastic boxes. Id do it for half the price for you without the grading stickers. You should watch the video, it shows that the boxes arent air tight so theres no preservation, they are sneeze guards as he said.

You obviously have no understanding of what people are discussing here. Qualified grading is different than sealed grading. A VGA qualified game is one that is theoretically new, but not factory sealed. Sealing something in an airtight container is not necessarily the best way to preserve it either, depending on what it is as there is still air trapped inside the case and inside the packaging which can allow oxidation. Although I don't personally have any graded games and never would buy or sell them, there are some people that want a third party to certify the condition and authenticity of what they have for resale or simple peace of mind. Just because you don't see the value in something doesn't mean it doesn't have value to others.

[Buyatari]

So.....if you hate their grading, then all youre getting from them that you like is putting your games in plastic boxes. Id do it for half the price for you without the grading stickers. You should watch the video, it shows that the boxes arent air tight so theres no preservation, they are sneeze guards as he said.

And Earthworm Jim, games are more special than toys, they come alive on your tv and do fancier stuff, which is why the idea of putting them in plastic is so weird to some, including myself.

He said he hates the QUALIFIED grading.