NES Reproduction Ethics

[wiggyx]

You we're trying to sell Zelda rerpos before.

You smoke pot.

Point?


I have been in communities where not only cease and desist letters were sent but I have seen arrests and fines from it.

I know a few people from an XBOX ISO site where members have gotten fines and some arrested.

So no it's not SO infinitesimal, SO niche, and SO off the fucking radar that they couldn't be bothered with the time to do anything. Because sometimes they will.


https://ap.nintendo.com/report/

https://ap.nintendo.com/

NES/SNES are totally in the same ballpark as 360 games. Selling burned DVDs of modern games is so exactly the same thing O_o


Based on the date this article was published April 2005 it's at least 2 console generations old. So I would say it's retro.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/120446/article.html


Not to mention I can keep getting older articles of arrest about older games if it keeps pleasing you.


Nicholas Goodness-Glory, 31, pleaded guilty in February to importing and selling modification chips and swap discs that allow pirated video games to be played on Sony PlayStation, Nintendo Wii and Microsoft xbox consoles. The mod chips and swap discs enabled the user to defeat the security measures built into the consoles to protect the manufacturers' copyrighted intellectual property.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/124759569.html?id=124759569


Not to mention there is no statue of limitations for copyright infringement. It's still illegal even if the games are old.

There is most certainly a statute of limitations in which a claim must be filed. Also, copyright has a lifespan of 60 years. After that it becomes public domain and anyone can do with it as they please.

So mod chips are repro games?

What the fuck man? If you're not even able to comprehend what we're talking about, then just leave and let the big (and sober) kids talk.

[needler420]

You smoke pot.

Point?



NES/SNES are totally in the same ballpark as 360 games. Selling burned DVDs of modern games is so exactly the same thing O_o



So mod chips are repro games?

What the fuck man? If you're not even able to comprehend what we're talking about, then just leave and let the big (and sober) kids talk.


Never said mods chips are repros. Not that it makes a difference repros are still illegal.

I don't smoke pot any more. I used too. And there is no point to me smoking pot. Do you know how many people smoked pot before? I think it's like 30-40 % of Americans. I am not on the site trying to sell pot.

I and others know you tried selling repros on here before.


And as I told the last person it doesn't matter how old the game is, it's still illegal to sell repros.

Makes no difference if it's an xbox 360 ISO or a 20 year old ROM they are both illegal and you can't seem to comprehend that. You seem to think using personal attacks against my 420 user name is helping your case and now the tables are turning on you.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Never said mods chips are repros. Not that it makes a difference repros are still illegal.

I don't smoke pot any more. I used too. And as I told the last person it doesn't matter how old the game is, it's still illegal to sell repros.

Makes no difference if it's an xbox 360 ISO or a 20 year old ROM they are both illegal and you can't seem to comprehend that.

Sorry, I wouldn't and I don't consider mod chips and Playstation 1/2 disk copies to be the same thing as retro cart rom hack/translation/localization repros.

And if the article and the action is 5+ years old, the crime, at the time, was not to do with "retro".

If you feel strongly that modern companies and license holders would be apt to do so, I challenge you to find me an article or arrest record for a hobbyist/retailer that got arrested and charged for making the types of homebrew/hack classic cartridges (NES/SNES/Genesis era) that we're discussing here.

Nobody is claiming that the act isn't strictly "legal" - I'm just saying that based on the volume of activity, the small group of people that they're producing/for and selling to that the rights holders if they're aware ARE NOT CONCERNED.

[needler420]

Sorry, I wouldn't and I don't consider mod chips and Playstation 1/2 disk copies to be the same thing as retro cart rom hack/translation/localization repros.

And if the article and the action is 5+ years old, the crime, at the time, was not to do with "retro".

If you feel strongly that modern companies and license holders would be apt to do so, I challenge you to find me an article or arrest record for a hobbyist/retailer that got arrested and charged for making the types of homebrew/hack classic cartridges (NES/SNES/Genesis era) that we're discussing here.



You keep trying to justify an illegal act. Of course it's going to be extremely hard to find an article on an arrest of older games made in smaller quantities. Guess what though repros are still illegal.

Just because I can't find an article doesn't change it's legality.


I would assume on smaller scale things like this it would involve more lawsuits and fines and cease and deist letters while arrests are on a larger scale are more so with modern gaming.

[wiggyx]

Never said mods chips are repros. Not that it makes a difference repros are still illegal.

I don't smoke pot any more. I used too. And there is no point to me smoking pot. Do you know how many people smoked pot before? I think it's like 30-40 % of Americans. I am not on the site trying to sell pot.

I and others know you tried selling repros on here before.


And as I told the last person it doesn't matter how old the game is, it's still illegal to sell repros.

Makes no difference if it's an xbox 360 ISO or a 20 year old ROM they are both illegal and you can't seem to comprehend that. You seem to think using personal attacks against my 420 user name is helping your case and now the tables are turning on you.

But repros are what we're talking about, so it might help if you stayed on topic. I can post articles about people being arrested for selling bootleg, China-made DVDs, but it has little to do with what we're talking about.

Blah blah blah. Again, has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nobody actually cares whether or not you "used to smoke pot" or still do and the percentage of Americans that smoke pot has NOTHING to do with its legality. Moot.

I don't sell anything related to my business on this site. Never have. I sell via my own sites and have a thread here that I use to promote said sites.

No shit. Who's arguing that they're legal? Show me?

Again, no shit.


Right, the "tables are turning on me". Who besides yourself is calling me out on anything I did or do? I think calling out your hypocrisy is helping the (not just my) cause. Nobody takes a hypocrite seriously once they've been caught, and the replies of others here seem to support that. There's absolutely no point in engaging you because you can't even provide responses that accurately address the topic at hand. It's like you just completely ignore what's been said, and then type the first thing that pops into your mind, over and over and over again.


Last I checked marking it as a repro doesn't make it legal.


It's illegal to sell repros/bootelgs.


That the Zelda hacks are still illegal.


It's still illegal even if the games are old.


NNot that it makes a difference repros are still illegal.

[Bojay1997]

You keep trying to justify an illegal act. Of course it's going to be extremely hard to find an article on an arrest of older games made in smaller quantities. Guess what though repros are still illegal.

Just because I can't find an article doesn't change it's legality.


I would assume on smaller scale things like this it would involve more lawsuits and fines and cease and deist letters while arrests are on a larger scale are more so with modern gaming.

You've made your point. Nobody cares. You're posting on a site that was built on preserving the history and legacy of video games. If you really want to stretch things, many items a lot of people have in their collections (including the Video Game History Museum for that matter) were probably not lawfully removed from the companies they used to belong to. Certainly many of the prototypes of games that exist today were not obtained in a strictly lawful manner. It doesn't change the fact that but for that unlawful act, the items and games likely would not exist today. As someone who works in the entertainment industry for a large studio that has a video game division as well as various film and television divisions, I can state with certainty that there are just some IP uses that companies don't care about even if they could go after the handful of people buying and selling them. If you're so concerned about this, perhaps you should go to law school and then you can start filing lawsuits against people selling a couple of hundred repros and making next to nothing for doing so. Obviously, nobody would pay you to file those lawsuits as there is no financial or deterrent benefit to doing it.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

You keep trying to justify an illegal act. Of course it's going to be extremely hard to find an article on an arrest of older games made in smaller quantities. Guess what though repros are still illegal.

Just because I can't find an article doesn't change it's legality.


I would assume on smaller scale things like this it would involve more lawsuits and fines and cease and deist letters while arrests are on a larger scale are more so with modern gaming.

No. I'm not trying to justify it.

Follow with me here. I'll type slowly.

Reproduction video games are illegal. You're illegally reproducing copyrighted materials and selling them for profit.

I acknowledge that. I accept that, and I have never claimed anything to the contrary.

However, the point that I'm attempting to hammer home to you is the reality that what we're discussing - 8/16 bit era repro games on cartridges, mostly using modified or donor materials for games that were never released or have been modified from their original retail state (hacks, homebrews, translations, localizations, etc.) are a very VERY small market both for producers and buyers.

Rights holders typically take action when the scope and scale of a counterfeiting operation matches or tops the production of the goods that they're copying, and even then, only where there is a substantial, measurable impact of the profits on the legitimate product.

Whether it's a perceived justification or not - the REALITY is that Nintendo is NOT having people arrested for selling copies of Zelda Outlands on NES cartridge. It's simply NOT. WORTH. THEIR. TIME/MONEY.

If you want to rally against piracy in the current generation, where it REALLY DOES matter and it REALLY DOES have a measurable impact (and even then there are people who would debate the true effects of piracy on new game sales) go nuts, but being so wound up over retro repros is fucking ridiculous and I have no idea how you can't see that this is a forum that by and large tolerates it.

[needler420]

But repros are what we're talking about, so it might help if you stayed on topic. I can post articles about people being arrested for selling bootleg, China-made DVDs, but it has little to do with what we're talking about.

Blah blah blah. Again, has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nobody actually cares whether or not you "used to smoke pot" or still do and the percentage of Americans that smoke pot has NOTHING to do with its legality. Moot.

I don't sell anything related to my business on this site. Never have. I sell via my own sites and have a thread here that I use to promote said sites.

No shit. Who's arguing that they're legal? Show me?

Again, no shit.


Right, the "tables are turning on me". Who besides yourself is calling me out on anything I did or do? I think calling out your hypocrisy is helping the (not just my) cause. Nobody takes a hypocrite seriously once they've been caught, and the replies of others here seem to support that. There's absolutely no point in engaging you because you can't even provide responses that accurately address the topic at hand. It's like you just completely ignore what's been said, and then type the first thing that pops into your mind, over and over and over again.




Here is a article that talks about your modding services and well as your illegal repro of Zelda Parallel Worlds.

I have screen shots when you had them listed on here. Not to mention Xander admitted in a previous post that you were trying to sell them and I'm sure other have seen it to.

Now you are really going to shoot yourself in the foot by lying to the community. I guarantee some people from here saw you trying to sell them. The only people who will support you are the people who support your repros.

You were trying to sell them on CAG but they don't tolerate piracy as much and a mod shut you down when I made them aware.



Here is a article about your illegal repros.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/03/interview_wiggy_design_on_breathing_life_into_old_ systems



Here is few people who talk about the illegal repro you made..

I think there a legal issue with selling games that contain other companies assets and trademarked character without a license or their permission.




Response

I'm pretty sure that's true, but so far we have not seen anything done about them. Nintendo probably do not care all that much about somebody selling a Beta version of a game, or selling a game like Clock Tower, that never made it in the US or even a game like The Legend of Zelda : Parralel world, who is more of a massive Rom Hack than an actual new title.
If they try to sell stuff like Super Mario World reproduction carts, I'm sure that would be more of a problem than using rom and putting them inside a game cartridge. They are pretty much selling games that never existed.


source http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501466

[wiggyx]

I have screen shots when you had them listed on here.

Again, I've never sold anything related to my business here.

Please show me screen shots of me selling them or trying to sell them on this site.


Not to mention Xander admitted in a previous post that you were trying to sell them and I'm sure other have seen it to.


And nobody could mistake his repros with the real original games, since they were hacks of Zelda:ALTTP. I don't see any contradiction in wiggyx statement, what was your intent with that last post needler420?

Show me where? Please.

[needler420]

Again, I've never sold anything related to my business here.

Please show me screen shots of me selling them or trying to sell them on this site.


Another post from you in your interview.

I'm also working on reproduction carts for the SNES. They're such a touchy subject on many forums and I'm trying to not cause trouble for anyone, least of all myself.

Source http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/03/interview_wiggy_design_on_breathing_life_into_old_ systems


You called me a liar the other day when I said repros were bringing you trouble? Am I still lying?

At this point I will no longer prove anything to you. I will keep letting you dig your hole.


As I stated others have saw you trying to sell them.

[wiggyx]

Another post from you in your interview.

I'm also working on reproduction carts for the SNES. They're such a touchy subject on many forums and I'm trying to not cause trouble for anyone, least of all myself.

Show me the pics.




You called me a liar the other day when I said repros were bringing you trouble? Am I still lying?

Yup. Sold them a while ago, without incident.




As I stated others have saw you trying to sell them.

Who and where? Pics or proof.

[needler420]

Show me the pics.

That is the only thing you have at this point in your favor.

I do not have them.


I did screen shot them the day you had them in your modding thread but don't remember when I deleted them.


You really are a fool though to challenge me with the pics because it's not like others didn't see that so you are straight up lying to the community now and I'm sure some people who are against repros saw the post. I just don't have proof.

For the sake of you trying to run a video games business you probably shouldn't lie.
Not good business if you ask me.

[wiggyx]

So you lied?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aV7CoZ84fM

[needler420]

So you lied?

About currently having a pic yes.


You're about to get caught in a lot more worse lies though.

[wiggyx]

About currently having a pic yes.


You're about to get caught in a lot more worse lies though.



When?

[needler420]

When?


And nobody could mistake his repros with the real original games, since they were hacks of Zelda:ALTTP. I don't see any contradiction in wiggyx statement, what was your intent with that last post needler420?


When the people who saw you make the post that day come and read the last few previous posts.:vamp:

[ApolloBoy]

You're about to get caught in a lot more worse lies though.
LOL internet tough guys

[wiggyx]

When the people who saw you make the post that day come and read the last few previous posts.:vamp:

When will that be? Is there anything I can do to speed the process along? I don't want to be waiting all day for this to happen.

[needler420]

When will that be? Is there anything I can do to speed the process along? I don't want to be waiting all day for this to happen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM_OWaItNJM

Got you where I want you!

[wiggyx]

Then strike.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Jr. internet police meet fun police.

And, as much fun as this discussion may be, any valid point that needs to be made has been made and the rest is just static.

Move along, nothing else to see here.