Digital Preservation of Videogames! (Crowdfunding Campaign)

[The Adventurer]

In this case, why should I donate when 1/4 of what I donate will go to buying stuff for OTHER donators? Because if you donate less than 60$ that is what is happening.

Well, then don't donate. Or donate at the minimum levels where all your money will go to the project. That's always your choice. If the project budgets right, those who pay for higher priced reward tiers pay for their rewards themselves.

I think you might be understating how much people actually enough crowdfunding rewards, and their draw.

[bb_hood]

I think you might be understating how much people actually enough crowdfunding rewards, and their draw.

Maybe, but I refuse to believe that people need to be tempted with 'prizes' in order to donate to a good cause. If you wanna donate I dont care I just dont think that money that is donated for the cause should go towards t-shirts & posters. And 25% seems like alot to be spending on posters and t-shirts.
Look at the marathons done by Awesome Games Done Quick. They offer prizes that are raffled off to donators, and all the prizes are donated. None of the proceeds go toward buying junk.

If the cause is good enough people will fork over money without expecting something in return.

[Bojay1997]

Maybe, but I refuse to believe that people need to be tempted with 'prizes' in order to donate to a good cause. If you wanna donate I dont care I just dont think that money that is donated for the cause should go towards t-shirts & posters. And 25% seems like alot to be spending on posters and t-shirts.
Look at the marathons done by Awesome Games Done Quick. They offer prizes that are raffled off to donators, and all the prizes are donated. None of the proceeds go toward buying junk.

If the cause is good enough people will fork over money without expecting something in return.

Strongly agree. It's different if it's a commercial product that's being funded like a game or a movie in which case giving out the product itself and unique physical items makes sense. In this situation, it's designed to be a database that would purportedly benefit video game players and collectors. I'm not seeing why anyone would want or need shirts and other physical junk for supporting that.

[JSoup]

Strongly agree. It's different if it's a commercial product that's being funded like a game or a movie in which case giving out the product itself and unique physical items makes sense. In this situation, it's designed to be a database that would purportedly benefit video game players and collectors. I'm not seeing why anyone would want or need shirts and other physical junk for supporting that.

Posters, t-shirts and other crap are what you offer after your site/community/whatever has been successful and has an established viewer base. As I said before, if they are cocksure that they are going to have the large community they thing they are, then the best thing to offer as far as a reward is community status symbols. People eat crap like that up.

[HappehLemons]

Hey digitpress, I'm going to say that a lot of aspects of the campaign could definitely be explained better and our roadmap and direction isn't easy to follow from the outside since we're trying to do so much. Our team has been working this week to give everyone a better idea of where Archive is now, some of the first steps well be taking after launch and where we plan to go as well as make it very clear for everyone the benefit of the website, and how other communities will benefit from us as well. All I can say is hang tight, we really do appreciate what everyone has been saying, negative and positive, because in the end it will make our project better for everyone.

I can understand that people wonder why we're asking money if the project is going to be finished anyway. Originally I though this would be clear, but since it's not I have no problem breaking it down. Archive is currently a hobby project with 7 people. All of us work full time jobs and can only put time into Archive when we free, this means we not only have a very variable time when it will be finished, but it means we all have very little time do dedicate to Archive and very little time polish our product. We want to hire a professional staff, as well as pay our current staff so the situation will be non-variable, we will be able to set dates and create a solid product with a dedicate team whos only focus will be to build Archive. Overall with a dedicate staff we would create a not only faster product, but a better one for community everywhere to use. This is the difference from what would be a hobby project, to an actual financially backed project.

[Rickstilwell1]

I didn't read through your entire website, but will list some of my wants in a video game database.

1. Full and hi-res label scans. For obvious reasons. Many of these games, especially rare ones, will eventually be lost for all time. Get the scans sooner rather than later.
2. Full and hi-res manual scans. See point 1.
3. Full and hi-res controller overlay scans. See point 1.
4. Scans and complete list of all originally packed-in materials, including leaflets, maps, hints books, etc.
5. Full and hi-res scans of all clamshell/jewel case inserts. See point 1.
6. Complete scans of all original boxes, all 6 sides.

I want these too. Not for scamming purposes but just so I can look at everything without having to buy the games in complete form to do so. It is so much cheaper to buy cart only or disc only. I really only want to buy the games I really like but would still like to see what the rest looks like. Reading tons of manuals would be fun.

Having a list of all leaflets etc when games were opened from new would be great because when buying CIB I prefer getting the more expensive copy that has all the extras that not everyone keeps, collects or looks for. They're an interesting historical bonus. Like Genesis games came with posters showing the current hot titles on the back.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

*Deleted*

[Greg2600]

First of all, you don't get any physical rewards until the 60 dollar level, so I really don't know what everyone is bitching about. And that's a poster that costs a few cents to make. 75 for a t-shirt, probably costs them $8-10 at most. To be honest, I think this crowdfund has some of the least amount of rewards I've ever seen, which may not be a good thing. I cannot see how 25% of the take goes to these.

In hindsight, while this may not have been possible, I think it would have been better if this team were closer to launch before doing the crowd fund. Because this is not a "hot button" type of project, and it's always tough to support something with a lot of money if you're unsure of completion. I gave $10 for solidarity.

[badinsults]

Hey digitpress, I'm going to say that a lot of aspects of the campaign could definitely be explained better and our roadmap and direction isn't easy to follow from the outside since we're trying to do so much. Our team has been working this week to give everyone a better idea of where Archive is now, some of the first steps well be taking after launch and where we plan to go as well as make it very clear for everyone the benefit of the website, and how other communities will benefit from us as well. All I can say is hang tight, we really do appreciate what everyone has been saying, negative and positive, because in the end it will make our project better for everyone.

I can understand that people wonder why we're asking money if the project is going to be finished anyway. Originally I though this would be clear, but since it's not I have no problem breaking it down. Archive is currently a hobby project with 7 people. All of us work full time jobs and can only put time into Archive when we free, this means we not only have a very variable time when it will be finished, but it means we all have very little time do dedicate to Archive and very little time polish our product. We want to hire a professional staff, as well as pay our current staff so the situation will be non-variable, we will be able to set dates and create a solid product with a dedicate team whos only focus will be to build Archive. Overall with a dedicate staff we would create a not only faster product, but a better one for community everywhere to use. This is the difference from what would be a hobby project, to an actual financially backed project.


But you could say that about any fan made website. Hell, if someone were to give me $25,000, I would dedicate weeks to my website to do archive work (I actually have enough stuff in my offline archive to keep me busy for months, stuff that is actually not currently available on the Internet). That said, I doubt you are going to get many good quality staff with such a low budget. Hiring a professional website designer and maintainer probably would be more than double what you need. All for a project with questionable merit. Throughout this entire exchange, you fail to understand why there is so much criticism. You are offering nothing new, and begging for money from an indifferent community. The fact that you haven't even bothered to contact some of the big names in video game archiving before you even started this project really indicates a lack of planning on your part.

[HappehLemons]

But you could say that about any fan made website. Hell, if someone were to give me $25,000, I would dedicate weeks to my website to do archive work (I actually have enough stuff in my offline archive to keep me busy for months, stuff that is actually not currently available on the Internet). That said, I doubt you are going to get many good quality staff with such a low budget. Hiring a professional website designer and maintainer probably would be more than double what you need. All for a project with questionable merit. Throughout this entire exchange, you fail to understand why there is so much criticism. You are offering nothing new, and begging for money from an indifferent community. The fact that you haven't even bothered to contact some of the big names in video game archiving before you even started this project really indicates a lack of planning on your part.

We already have an awesome professional staff. Almost all of our members have linked-in profiles that you can look up full of history in their field. For example our current web designer, David, is one of the lead designers at twitch.tv. We love our staff, and they are great but a couple people working full time combined with our current staff would help us move forward, we will be able to delegate them to tasks that have already been started and have a clear path forward (Removing a lot of work for them). I can understand the website not being for everyone in the world, there is no such website that exists today but If you're saying that we're offering nothing new I feel as if you haven't even read the campaign page, or you're simply ignoring points. It's not that I don't understand your criticism, it's that you're simply misinformed.

We have had lots of support during our campaign and there are many people who have reached out to me who love the idea of our website and can't wait for our relaunch. Even if these people don't support us by contributing, this is still extremely meaningful and important to us. Thank you to all those people!

[Bojay1997]

We already have an awesome professional staff. Almost all of our members have linked-in profiles that you can look up full of history in their field. For example our current web designer, David, is one of the lead designers at twitch.tv. We love our staff, and they are great but a couple people working full time combined with our current staff would help us move forward, we will be able to delegate them to tasks that have already been started and have a clear path forward (Removing a lot of work for them). I can understand the website not being for everyone in the world, there is no such website that exists today but If you're saying that we're offering nothing new I feel as if you haven't even read the campaign page, or you're simply ignoring points. It's not that I don't understand your criticism, it's that you're simply misinformed.

We have had lots of support during our campaign and there are many people who have reached out to me who love the idea of our website and can't wait for our relaunch. Even if these people don't support us by contributing, this is still extremely meaningful and important to us. Thank you to all those people!

Actually, you haven't had lots of support. Virtually every forum you have posted on has provided the exact same feedback to you and while I applaud your enthusiasm, you seem unwilling or unable to understand the message people are sending. The beauty of crowdfunding is that the success or failure of a goal is pretty well linked to whether or not the public at large is interested in something to the point that they are willing to pay for it. Clearly, having only raised a little more than $300 ($71 of which came from a member of your staff) with all the effort you have put in to date is a fairly strong message that your website is not something people want to pay for, at least right now. Maybe instead of continuing to waste your time and energy on debating with people here and elsewhere, it's time to close the campaign and simply build whatever it is you're building and then let people decide if it's something they want to support. It's a model that worked for Digital Press and Atari Age and every other major video game website out there.

[bb_hood]

I can understand the website not being for everyone in the world, there is no such website that exists today but If you're saying that we're offering nothing new I feel as if you haven't even read the campaign page, or you're simply ignoring points. It's not that I don't understand your criticism, it's that you're simply misinformed.



There are too many DEDICATED sites out there already. You claim the website will be different but I really dont see how you can offer new or better content without leeching off other sites. For example, if I wanted information about an atari game why should I go to your site instead of going right to AtariAge? Will your site have rarity guides and information regarding label variants? I dont see how you can offer better or more accurate content than whats already out there without TAKING/USING whats already out there. And if you are just taking the info from other sites that have been around for many years, why should I pay and support you?

[HappehLemons]

There are too many DEDICATED sites out there already. You claim the website will be different but I really dont see how you can offer new or better content without leeching off other sites. For example, if I wanted information about an atari game why should I go to your site instead of going right to AtariAge? Will your site have rarity guides and information regarding label variants? I dont see how you can offer better or more accurate content than whats already out there without TAKING/USING whats already out there. And if you are just taking the info from other sites that have been around for many years, why should I pay and support you?

This is a good example. As you can see, this poster is being pretty negative and seems pretty angry at us. Summarized, he's simply saying that our website is impossible to make, if we have the information we must of stolen it and that he already has a database website he likes to go to. This user doesn't want change using another database and sees no way possible that any other website that we could be better then current databases legitimately.

Not only does he not support us (Which is of course fine, trusting a new database like this by and donating money isn't for everyone. It is seen as a risk to any level headed person as we can only say to much to push doubts aside. There is of level of trust involved that no everyone is willing to make) but he, as many other users find it impossible for us to be a contender and seemly hasn't even bothered to look at our page, because we give users plenty of reason to support us (And obviously no one is forced to pay us, but at least understand our message). Some users may not believe us or trust us, but this is a very different story.

Yes, we have requested money, but we're not forcing anyone to donate. If you see a future with us and you want to contribute all I can say thank you, and your money will be put to good use, no matter what the amount. Maybe this isn't a risk many people are willing to take. If you think that you don't see a future in our website or you wont get a function our of it that's also fine (Although we're dead set on proving you wrong!) If you don't want to contribute to Archive it's fine. But why all this hate? According to the the users who don't like us very much, worse case scenario is fizzle away. But neutral/good/best case scenario is we bring the community together and contribute content for everyone to freely use. We have been learning a lot from the more constructive users but this kind of talk does nothing for anyone.


Actually, you haven't had lots of support. Virtually every forum you have posted on has provided the exact same feedback to you and while I applaud your enthusiasm, you seem unwilling or unable to understand the message people are sending. The beauty of crowdfunding is that the success or failure of a goal is pretty well linked to whether or not the public at large is interested in something to the point that they are willing to pay for it. Clearly, having only raised a little more than $300 ($71 of which came from a member of your staff) with all the effort you have put in to date is a fairly strong message that your website is not something people want to pay for, at least right now. Maybe instead of continuing to waste your time and energy on debating with people here and elsewhere, it's time to close the campaign and simply build whatever it is you're building and then let people decide if it's something they want to support. It's a model that worked for Digital Press and Atari Age and every other major video game website out there.

This is mostly feedback that is misinformed, and a lot of it is just needless bashing that's primarily from the same group of users across all boards. I will say that some of the feedback and messages people have been giving me (even if it is negative) has helped shape us and zone in on our goals and realize a lot of things. I am not continually posting here to raise money for Archive, but I hardly see responding to that users here a waste of time. People have questions and issues with our website. I'm doing my best to clear them up and not leave this thread with users having a sour taste in their mouths or give anyone a bad impression as a lot of the users here could quite easily be great contributors to us one day. Money rasied or not, our intentions are good, we want to create a website that everyone can benefit from.

[Bojay1997]

This is a good example. As you can see, this poster is being pretty negative. Summarized, he's simply saying that our website is impossible to make, if we have the information we must of stolen it and that he already has a database website he likes to go to. This user doesn't want change using another database and sees no way possible that any other website that we could be better then current databases legitimately.

Not only does he not support us (Which is of course fine, trusting a new database like this by and donating money isn't for everyone. It is seen as a risk to any level headed person as we can only say to much to push doubts aside. There is of level of trust involved that no everyone is willing to make) but he, as many other users find it impossible for us to be a contender and seemly hasn't even bothered to look at our page, because we give users plenty of reason to support us (And obviously no one is forced to pay us, but at least understand our message). Some users may not believe us or trust us, but this is a very different story.

Yes, we have requested money, but we're not forcing anyone to donate. If you think that you don't see a future in our website or you wont get a function our of it that's also fine (Although we're dead set on proving you wrong!) If you don't want to contribute to Archive it's fine. But why all this hate? According to the the users who don't like us very much, worse case scenario is fizzle away. But neutral/good/best case scenario is we bring the community together and contribute content for everyone to freely use. We have been learning a lot from the more constructive users but this kind of talk does nothing for anyone.

The problem I have with your argument is that you are coming to existing forums and websites where this content already exists and where those websites were built purely with volunteer efforts and asking those community members for money and to allow you to be paid for time away from work. You then have completed ignored what these same people are saying to you. This isn't your website or forum where people are posting negative things, it's an existing community that you joined for the purpose of seeking funding for your own personal venture. Nobody asked you to post about your venture here, you chose to do so. As such, you shouldn't be surprised when people are honest with their feelings about it.

My other problem with this whole thing is that you're acting like your campaign somehow has traction. You have raised around $230 dollars after weeks of trying. That's terrible. It's frankly embarrassing. I received literally twice that in gift cards from friends for my birthday last year and I'm not even the most popular person in the world. If people liked the concept of what you were trying to build, they would have made contributions. The truth is that few if any people see any need for what you're building and the few that do are only willing to contribute very minimal amounts to your project.

I'm not saying you should give up or that your project has no future. I'm just saying that your crowdfunding effort is a failure and it's time to go back to the drawing board to figure out what people really want and then build it in such a way that doesn't require outside funding. Your pitch started off as optimistic and charming, but the more I read your responses on this forum and others, it becomes clear to me that what you are really pushing is the same tired argument that you have professional writers and coders and designers and therefore your site is going to be superior to everything out there. Sometimes the best design and technology doesn't win the race. Sometimes the amateur hobbyist is actually the better source of information like this and frankly, sites like Digital Press, Mobygames, Atari Age, and many others have been around for a long time and will still be around long after you and your buddies have moved on to other ventures.

[HappehLemons]

The problem I have with your argument is that you are coming to existing forums and websites where this content already exists and where those websites were built purely with volunteer efforts and asking those community members for money and to allow you to be paid for time away from work. You then have completed ignored what these same people are saying to you. This isn't your website or forum where people are posting negative things, it's an existing community that you joined for the purpose of seeking funding for your own personal venture. Nobody asked you to post about your venture here, you chose to do so. As such, you shouldn't be surprised when people are honest with their feelings about it.

My other problem with this whole thing is that you're acting like your campaign somehow has traction. You have raised around $230 dollars after weeks of trying. That's terrible. It's frankly embarrassing. I received literally twice that in gift cards from friends for my birthday last year and I'm not even the most popular person in the world. If people liked the concept of what you were trying to build, they would have made contributions. The truth is that few if any people see any need for what you're building and the few that do are only willing to contribute very minimal amounts to your project.

I'm not saying you should give up or that your project has no future. I'm just saying that your crowdfunding effort is a failure and it's time to go back to the drawing board to figure out what people really want and then build it in such a way that doesn't require outside funding. Your pitch started off as optimistic and charming, but the more I read your responses on this forum and others, it becomes clear to me that what you are really pushing is the same tired argument that you have professional writers and coders and designers and therefore your site is going to be superior to everything out there. Sometimes the best design and technology doesn't win the race. Sometimes the amateur hobbyist is actually the better source of information like this and frankly, sites like Digital Press, Mobygames, Atari Age, and many others have been around for a long time and will still be around long after you and your buddies have moved on to other ventures.

Our model is without a doubt different then the other databases that currently stand. We're trying something a little different, and maybe it won't go as planned. But this isn't a personal venture, and it isn't just something I'm doing for me, or our team just doing it for our team. I'm not sure why it bothers you that we have a positive outlook on things despite us not hitting our target funding range. In our eyes this campaign is a success regardless of the amount of money it raises.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

This isn't your website or forum where people are posting negative things, it's an existing community that you joined for the purpose of seeking funding for your own personal venture.

Wow, he joined Digital Press in 2009 to ask for crowd funding on IndieGoGo in 2013?

That's one LONG con!

[bb_hood]

This is a good example. As you can see, this poster is being pretty negative and seems pretty angry at us. Summarized, he's simply saying that our website is impossible to make, if we have the information we must of stolen it and that he already has a database website he likes to go to. This user doesn't want change using another database and sees no way possible that any other website that we could be better then current databases legitimately.

Not only does he not support us (Which is of course fine, trusting a new database like this by and donating money isn't for everyone. It is seen as a risk to any level headed person as we can only say to much to push doubts aside. There is of level of trust involved that no everyone is willing to make) but he, as many other users find it impossible for us to be a contender and seemly hasn't even bothered to look at our page, because we give users plenty of reason to support us (And obviously no one is forced to pay us, but at least understand our message). Some users may not believe us or trust us, but this is a very different story.

Yes, we have requested money, but we're not forcing anyone to donate. If you see a future with us and you want to contribute all I can say thank you, and your money will be put to good use, no matter what the amount. Maybe this isn't a risk many people are willing to take. If you think that you don't see a future in our website or you wont get a function our of it that's also fine (Although we're dead set on proving you wrong!) If you don't want to contribute to Archive it's fine. But why all this hate? According to the the users who don't like us very much, worse case scenario is fizzle away. But neutral/good/best case scenario is we bring the community together and contribute content for everyone to freely use. We have been learning a lot from the more constructive users but this kind of talk does nothing for anyone.


So instead of answering my questions I guess Im just a negative person who is angry. Im not the one with hands open asking for thousands of dollars in the form of donations. If you are gonna ask for so much money to be given to you you better be able to respond to criticism with serious answers or else no one will support your site.

I was really hoping you would answer my questions I posed before. Will you have features like rarity guides, and if so where would the info come from? Would you just make it up yourselves? And if so would it be better than guides on Atariage or Digital Press?

[InsaneDavid]

wow, he joined digital press in 2009 to ask for crowd funding on indiegogo in 2013?

That's one long con!

Indeed! ROFL ROFL ROFL

[Bojay1997]

Wow, he joined Digital Press in 2009 to ask for crowd funding on IndieGoGo in 2013?

That's one LONG con!

Amazing. Out of everything that has been argued and discussed here, this is the point you decide to highlight? You're right, this guy participated off and on here for the last few years, with lots of sale and wanted posts and no mention of his amazing desire to contribute to the community. On AtariAge, he also joined a while ago and over half of his posts since he joined are related to this Indiegogo campaign with the rest being sales posts. It's the epitome of the attitude I discussed before that he could be here for four years, never offer to contribute to this or any of the other sites he is a member of and then turn around and decide only he and his crack professional team have the brilliance to build something the rest of us were too stupid to know we needed. Give me a break. If you and the handful of others who keep hopping in here to defend the project are so gung-ho on the project, why haven't you contributed hundreds of dollars each to move it closer to its goal? I suspect the answer is that you realize that this isn't something that would be particularly useful to most people and certainly not worth paying a group of people none of us really knows to take off work to build.

[Gameguy]

Wow, he joined Digital Press in 2009 to ask for crowd funding on IndieGoGo in 2013?

That's one LONG con!

http://i44.tinypic.com/30t076f.jpg



I'm wondering why so many people are having a problem with this project but nobody brings up the donations that were asked for the Digital Press traveling museum/side-show-carnival, or whatever it was supposed to be. It's been so long since I've heard anything about that I can't remember the details, I do remember that part of the funding was used for storage lockers which were broken into at some point. Besides that who knows. Maybe it bothered me more that he barely posted here at all anymore but just showed up to ask for donations, and then just left again. To be fair, all of these museum/database type projects seem unnecessary. I like video games but they're just a hobby, these big projects seem to be making them come across more important than they really are. I could see a smaller type of endeavour like a roadside attraction working, more like the Brantford Computer Museum which is basically run by just one person opening his collection to the public. That museum is supposedly the largest collection of personal computers in Canada, and it's not even open full time. It's open around once a month.

As for HappehLemons, I believe I've watched a few of his youtube videos including a detailed look at the various versions of Mickey Mania with comparisons between them. It seems to me that he is into games and does put work into sharing that with others. Maybe he's a bit busy which is why he hasn't posted here as much as others, some people have lives outside of the internet. I don't think he's just here for a cash grab.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Amazing. Out of everything that has been argued and discussed here, this is the point you decide to highlight? You're right, this guy participated off and on here for the last few years, with lots of sale and wanted posts and no mention of his amazing desire to contribute to the community. On AtariAge, he also joined a while ago and over half of his posts since he joined are related to this Indiegogo campaign with the rest being sales posts. It's the epitome of the attitude I discussed before that he could be here for four years, never offer to contribute to this or any of the other sites he is a member of and then turn around and decide only he and his crack professional team have the brilliance to build something the rest of us were too stupid to know we needed. Give me a break. If you and the handful of others who keep hopping in here to defend the project are so gung-ho on the project, why haven't you contributed hundreds of dollars each to move it closer to its goal? I suspect the answer is that you realize that this isn't something that would be particularly useful to most people and certainly not worth paying a group of people none of us really knows to take off work to build.

Dude, the reason that I highlighted that is because it's just ... just fucking ridiculous.

I mean, do you REALLY believe what you said there?

That he joined the forums FOUR YEARS AGO with THIS crowd-funding project as the end-game?

And as far as my level of support of the project, I donated $5 as a show of support and respect to a fellow member of the gaming community.

I don't know where you're getting that I'm some kind of passionate flag-waver for the project. Does not shitting all over it and wishing a motivated group of individuals good luck make me that? If so ... whatever!

Frankly, I don't care if it's redundant in the face of other game databases or if it will be useful or successful, I just gave what I could afford to give because I fucking wanted to.

You know, charity? I donate to lots of things that I don't have a huge vested interest in and I don't feel the need to research and pour over details, statistics, of the chance of success for whatever the cause is. I just give a few dollars and say "good luck!" to those causes because I want to.

[JSoup]

I suspect the answer is that you realize that this isn't something that would be particularly useful to most people and certainly not worth paying a group of people none of us really knows to take off work to build.

I think the more reasonable answer for most of the interested people who haven't contributed is "I don't have the money".

[badinsults]

Wow, he joined Digital Press in 2009 to ask for crowd funding on IndieGoGo in 2013?

That's one LONG con!

You are completely missing the point (yet again). HappehLemons may have joined this forum years ago, but until this thread started, what exactly has he contributed here? Why should we get excited about some random person coming in and asking for $25,000 for a video game website that fills absolutely no niche? So he made some Youtube videos comparing a Mickey Mouse game? I don't see that as being a huge contribution to the community. I don't claim to have a large number of contributions, but probably half the SNES prototype releases during the past 10 years have passed through my site, which I think is a much more interesting contribution than another monolithic Gamefaqs clone. It is pretty bold to come around here, asking for money, and then when there is legitimate comments questioning the viability of the project, dismiss them by stating "we have a professional staff". The fact that they have not raised any money in the past two weeks really hammers home the point that no one is interested in this.

And before you accuse me of not donating to worthy video game documentation projects, I present The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748556728/the-untold-history-of-japanese-game-developers). This is a project by one of the most highly respected video game journalists out there, working on a project that has not even been attempted by people in Japan. He set out a layout of his intended goals, including people he lined up to interview, and included all costs in his estimate (flights, insurance, translators). I had no problems backing this project, as did 1500 others. Like I said, this is all about finding a niche. If HappehLemons was presenting some innovative project that has never been successfully attempted by others, he would have no problem getting support. But the fact is, he has not convinced us that this project is going to be all that different from existing websites such as Gamefaqs, Atari Age, Moby Games, Nintendo Age, etc.

Frankie, I would love to go through life with your permanently placed rose-coloured glasses. As a scientist, I cannot consider something like this in anything but a critical lens. I would love to see more preservation projects go ahead, but I think it is better to support those doing the grunt work, like byuu's SNES preservation project (http://byuu.org/snes/preservation/), the aforementioned history of Japanese video games book, or my own work on video game prototypes. I see little point in another website that is merely a repository of already available information. This is the point I have made throughout this thread, and obviously it has not sunk in.

Hell, I'll even give a suggestion. At the moment there is no bibliography of information found in video game magazines. As a researcher, that would be incredibly useful. If HappehLemons were planning to do something like that on their site, I would be more than willing to help. Retromags (http://www.retromags.com/) has even made things easy by providing scans of hundreds of magazines. There just needs to be people to do the laborious task of putting everything in a database. I sort of did up a proof of concept on a spreadsheet with an issue of EGM (http://www.snescentral.com/lists/Electronic%20Gaming_Monthly_Issue_042_January_1993 .xlsx), and on my website (see the bottom of this page (http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=0000)). It would be awesome to have a database of when a particular game appeared in game magazines. I know that such a project would not be sexy, nor would you likely find anyone to fund it, but it would be very useful.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

You're damn right I'm not like you. I'm thankful every day that I'm not like you.

I don't need anybody in this hobby to "prove" anything to me about their alleged "contributions" to "the community" to provide some basic charity and respect.

I'm not "missing" the points that those who are down on this (and every other crowd-funding project presented on this site) have made, I simply don't allow that negativity to alter my willingness to show optimism and support.

Hate me for it. I give no fucks.

[JSoup]

I don't need anybody in this hobby to "prove" anything to me about their alleged "contributions" to "the community" to provide some basic charity and respect.

You keep saying charity, but I feel that's the wrong word to use here. This isn't the cancer awareness center were every dollar given goes to making the better world a better place and your reward is a warm sunny feeling about the whole thing. In this case, the money is going to make a product, a product that is going to be handed to you once it's completed. If you want to think of it as some selfless charity, that's perfectly fine, but let's call an apple an apple.



Hate me for it. I give no fucks.

Well, you give at least enough fucks to respond and explain yourself. That's pretty much enough for anyone itching for an argument.

[bigbacon]

Still don't get why you need 25,000 bucks to start a website?

[98PaceCar]

You're damn right I'm not like you. I'm thankful every day that I'm not like you.

I don't need anybody in this hobby to "prove" anything to me about their alleged "contributions" to "the community" to provide some basic charity and respect.

I'm not "missing" the points that those who are down on this (and every other crowd-funding project presented on this site) have made, I simply don't allow that negativity to alter my willingness to show optimism and support.

Hate me for it. I give no fucks.

Real nice Frankie, you do realize that the newer members here probably look up to you as a "leader" in this community and follow your example on how to act, right??

This isn't charity, this is someone trying to get other people to absorb the cost and risk of playing in their chosen hobby. Simple truth, there's not a person here that wouldn't love to have a crowdfunded year of salary to "contribute" to the classic gaming community, professional or not. Not unlike what the admin here tried to do with the DP app he proposed on Kickstarter. This will likely end up the same way that did.

That said, if there were anything in this proposal that was new or innovative, I'd be willing to give it a shot. But when there are already a dearth of sites, some dedicated and some general, that serve this type of information to the community having a new one start up is redundant. The idea of a central site is noble, but they will either be starting with little to no content or will be in a position where they have to beg/borrow/steal content from other sites, so the end result is either no content or the same content I've already seen. I have my established places that I go to where I know I can get the answers I need, regardless of the question. The experts in their various topics have found sites to either host their information or have forums where discussions should happen and without attracting those experts, what will this new site bring to the table? Is there a plan to offer things to prolific posters on other sites to attract their participation? From where I'm sitting, it appears that the plan is nothing more than "build it and they will come". The part that seems to be ignored is that it was already built and they are already there.

[The Adventurer]

Still don't get why you need 25,000 bucks to start a website?

Probably because you don't understand that content and article contributors like to be paid for their work. Not to mention designing a searchable database takes paid expertise to do it right.

[bigbacon]

Probably because you don't understand that content and article contributors like to be paid for their work. Not to mention designing a searchable database takes paid expertise to do it right.

except in an already overly saturated internet of these things you might as well find people that are passionate enough to get it started without the capital needed. Not getting far with 25k anyway if you need to hire designers, architects, DBAs, etc.

just seems like an idea that is doomed to failure because its already been done, a bunch of times.

[JSoup]

Probably because you don't understand that content and article contributors like to be paid for their work.

Yeah, just look at all the salary demands the contributors at GFAQs, GameSpot, Retrogaming Roundtable, Nintendo Age and MobyGames submit. Oh, wait....


Not to mention designing a searchable database takes paid expertise to do it right.

Not really. A database is a fairly simple thing to design and can be done with a limited knowledge of coding. What takes expertise is adding a bunch of bells and whistles that aren't really necessary.

[Aussie2B]

You're damn right I'm not like you. I'm thankful every day that I'm not like you.

I don't need anybody in this hobby to "prove" anything to me about their alleged "contributions" to "the community" to provide some basic charity and respect.

I'm not "missing" the points that those who are down on this (and every other crowd-funding project presented on this site) have made, I simply don't allow that negativity to alter my willingness to show optimism and support.

Hate me for it. I give no fucks.

Wow, you know this place is turning into a shithole when even the mods (the only one who's around much at all) are throwing childish insults at long-time, respected members who have contributed so much to the game collecting scene. A member who had been a part of this community for FOUR YEARS before said mod even joined.

Where on earth did anybody say that they hate you for contributing? Where on earth did anybody say that you're not allowed to donate or speak positively on this project? How does people arguing their cases get twisted into this ridiculous insecurity?

I'm really getting sick and tired of this shit. Where is ANY other mod or admin of this board to take control of the nonsense that's been going on around here? Trolls are being allowed to run amok (when in the past, actual valuable members were banned for FAR less), and now our one and only regularly active mod is behaving like a child.

[JSoup]

I think too much is being read into Frankie's outburst there. A few select people have been making a point to argue everything he posts in every damn discussion over the last year or so. Every person has a limit.

[InsaneDavid]

I think too much is being read into Frankie's outburst there. A few select people have been making a point to argue everything he posts in every damn discussion over the last year or so. Every person has a limit.

I have to agree completely with this.

[ProgrammingAce]

You're damn right I'm not like you. I'm thankful every day that I'm not like you.

I don't need anybody in this hobby to "prove" anything to me about their alleged "contributions" to "the community" to provide some basic charity and respect.

I'm not "missing" the points that those who are down on this (and every other crowd-funding project presented on this site) have made, I simply don't allow that negativity to alter my willingness to show optimism and support.

Hate me for it. I give no fucks.

Someone should begin a kickstarter to buy you some more quote marks. You're going to go broke using this many.

[T.A.P.]

I just realized the title misspelled "Preservation."

Not a good sign.

[portnoyd]

I think too much is being read into Frankie's outburst there. A few select people have been making a point to argue everything he posts in every damn discussion over the last year or so. Every person has a limit.

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/uploads/gallery/1286767207/gallery_86316_34174_10985644984cb48aa3689d9.jpg

Fwiw, I'm thankful I'm not Canadian too. Then I realize they have ketchup chips and that makes me sad so I'm not.

See what I did there? I made a post that's as worthwhile as the last 2-3 pages of this thread.

[JSoup]

Post by port and prog never fail to make me smile.

[T.A.P.]

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/uploads/gallery/1286767207/gallery_86316_34174_10985644984cb48aa3689d9.jpg

Fwiw, I'm thankful I'm not Canadian too. Then I realize they have ketchup chips and that makes me sad so I'm not.

See what I did there? I made a post that's as worthwhile as the last 2-3 pages of this thread.

You can get Ketchup chips in America.

[JSoup]

You can get Ketchup chips in America.

I see them in cans all the time at $1 stores.

[portnoyd]

You can get Ketchup chips in America.

My bad, let me elaborate:

http://www.taquitos.net/im/sn/doritosketchup.jpg

American citizen or these? Hmmm, tough call.

[Aussie2B]

I think too much is being read into Frankie's outburst there. A few select people have been making a point to argue everything he posts in every damn discussion over the last year or so. Every person has a limit.

I cherry-pick topics to look at based on if they catch my interest, so I very well could be unaware of feuds between individual members. I just took things at face value, so I apologize if I'm commenting on things without having the whole picture. On the other hand, I do think mods/admins need to be held to higher standards, and I'll never hesitate to call one out for acting badly.

Anyway, who gives a fuck? Talking about chips is way more interesting than any of the other stupid crap in this topic. Let's all eat some Tim's Cascade-style potato chips and be happy. :P http://timschips.com/index.php

[RP2A03]

My bad, let me elaborate:

http://www.taquitos.net/im/sn/doritosketchup.jpg

American citizen or these? Hmmm, tough call.

On the other hand, if you were Canadian you would be drinking your milk from a bag.

[Baloo]

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/06-Herrs-Heinz-Ketchup-062810-lg-66043450.jpg

[Atarileaf]

Fwiw, I'm thankful I'm not Canadian too.

Says the guy from New Jersey ;)

[JSoup]

On the other hand, if you were Canadian you would be drinking your milk from a bag.

People joke about that, but it's actually pretty good. Spending a few weeks with my cousins up there once, I was amazed to find just how much plastic jugs alter the flavor of the milk. The bagged milk was just so much sweeter, I loved it.

[Gameguy]

On the other hand, if you were Canadian you would be drinking your milk from a bag.
We have cartons and plastic jugs too, it's just that the bags are sold cheaper so a lot of people just buy those. We personally buy the plastic jugs, it's cheaper than cartons but you don't have to deal with open bags of milk in the fridge so it's worth the slight extra cost.

America has Pepsi throwback year round which is pretty cool, but we have healthcare so it kind of balances out.

[badinsults]

No, you guys are getting it wrong. These are the only ketchup chips that are worthy of this Canadian.

6939

Australia has ketchup chips, or "tomato sauce" chips, but like everything in Australia, they are bland and tasteless.




BTW, Aussie2B, you were bang on in your assessment. The current administration of this board has always had certain level of belligerence towards many of the long time members of this board, going back to when many of us criticized Joe's mythical "museum" that he was starting up. His kickstarter deserved the same level of scrutiny that the OP in this thread is getting, but because of Joe's stature in the community (which was rightfully earned), many gave him the benefit of the doubt. If you read between the lines, he was never intending to actually have a physical museum, just a travelling roadshow that would be on display at events like E3 (and that has happened), plus maybe a small display at a store he wanted to open on the west coast. Ever since then, this forum has kind of gone to crap, as many of the long time members have left, with no leadership amongst the moderators. I mean, does Frankie, the administrator of this board, even care about video game collecting? I somehow doubt it. Look at his response to my long post, where I not only criticized the OP about his project, but gave suggestions on ways they could contribute to the community in a beneficial way. Instead of coming up with legitimate flaws in my reasoning, I get the whole Bennet Brauer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LOPIJa3O4) routine.

[pauljh]

Hey all! Me and a team of people have gotten together to make a website dedicated to creating the largest searchable database of videogames in the history of the planet!

I never post and never comment, and don't want to cause offense, but there is http://videogamegeek.com/ which is back by an amazing engine behind the scenes and is trying to be just what you suggest....

[JSoup]

I never post and never comment, and don't want to cause offense, but there is http://videogamegeek.com/ which is back by an amazing engine behind the scenes and is trying to be just what you suggest....

I always forget about that database. It's been around for a while and I recall it being a tad tough to use around 2002, but it's really come into it's own.

[GarrettCRW]

BTW, Aussie2B, you were bang on in your assessment. The current administration of this board has always had certain level of belligerence towards many of the long time members of this board, going back to when many of us criticized Joe's mythical "museum" that he was starting up. His kickstarter deserved the same level of scrutiny that the OP in this thread is getting, but because of Joe's stature in the community (which was rightfully earned), many gave him the benefit of the doubt. If you read between the lines, he was never intending to actually have a physical museum, just a travelling roadshow that would be on display at events like E3 (and that has happened), plus maybe a small display at a store he wanted to open on the west coast. Ever since then, this forum has kind of gone to crap, as many of the long time members have left, with no leadership amongst the moderators. I mean, does Frankie, the administrator of this board, even care about video game collecting? I somehow doubt it. Look at his response to my long post, where I not only criticized the OP about his project, but gave suggestions on ways they could contribute to the community in a beneficial way. Instead of coming up with legitimate flaws in my reasoning, I get the whole Bennet Brauer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LOPIJa3O4) routine.

Frankie thought that the GEDA was a real thing (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?135757-Geda-VX690HD-the-No-1-MP4-of-the-World-Has-Landed-with-a-Strong-Storm&p=1611579&viewfull=1#post1611579), so he can't be all that bad. :D

[bigbacon]

Yeah, just look at all the salary demands the contributors at GFAQs, GameSpot, Retrogaming Roundtable, Nintendo Age and MobyGames submit. Oh, wait....



Not really. A database is a fairly simple thing to design and can be done with a limited knowledge of coding. What takes expertise is adding a bunch of bells and whistles that aren't really necessary.

exactly....this is what I was getting at by saying what do you need 25k for.

you don't need 25k to get started on something like this. You fnd passionate people who will work for free because there is a huge supply.

25k isn't going to get you a professionally built website, a DBA, and everything else anyway.

[Greg2600]

BTW, Aussie2B, you were bang on in your assessment. The current administration of this board has always had certain level of belligerence towards many of the long time members of this board, going back to when many of us criticized Joe's mythical "museum" that he was starting up. His kickstarter deserved the same level of scrutiny that the OP in this thread is getting, but because of Joe's stature in the community (which was rightfully earned), many gave him the benefit of the doubt. If you read between the lines, he was never intending to actually have a physical museum, just a traveling roadshow that would be on display at events like E3 (and that has happened), plus maybe a small display at a store he wanted to open on the west coast. Ever since then, this forum has kind of gone to crap, as many of the long time members have left, with no leadership amongst the moderators. I mean, does Frankie, the administrator of this board, even care about video game collecting? I somehow doubt it. Look at his response to my long post, where I not only criticized the OP about his project, but gave suggestions on ways they could contribute to the community in a beneficial way. Instead of coming up with legitimate flaws in my reasoning, I get the whole Bennet Brauer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LOPIJa3O4) routine.

First of all, Joe's museum project is still ongoing, and he has every intention to find a permanent home. His kickstarter doesn't pay for his travels, he used some of it to purchase better storage equipment and showcases, for those types of events. Plus he was pretty open that the money would not be spent immediately on leasing a building somewhere. You can't setup a museum for 30 grand, it takes a lot more. As for those who no longer frequent this board, that's fine with me. I found them to be like angry jilted lovers and really any community is better served without their constant negativity. The museum did not push them away, they largely stopped posting here years ago, and continued to fester their vitriol for an otherwise good natured person (Joe) on the vBender IRC or whatever that was instead. And the others who stopped coming here, either they grew up and out of the hobby, or they got sick of those aforementioned malcontents attacking everything.

As for Frankie's collecting interest, give the Digital Press Podcast (http://dpvideogames.com/webcasts) a watch, and you'll see! Shameless plug. LOL. However, I STILL agree with your concerns about this project, both in terms of completion possibility, and use of material against someone's wishes. I'm just not willing to tar and feather the OP. That said, I think Frankie's aggravated with a largely lopsided bashing of the project by members here. He's actually trying to DEFEND the forum and the OP from being flamed out. There's been several beat downs of crowdsource projects here lately and that's not really welcoming to the greater community.

[Aussie2B]

Honestly, I think it might be wise if a new "Plug your shit!" (not in those exact words, haha) section was created. I think some of the negativity probably stems from this ("Classic Gaming") being a discussion section, where topics should exist purely for the sake of discussion, yet it feels like every other topic starts with somebody advertising their Kickstarter, Youtube videos, blog, or whatever. It's like staying up late, enjoying a Twilight Zone marathon only to have the marathon cut out for a couple hours for early morning infomercials. It's just irritating. If there was a designated section, these types of topics would have a place where they belong, and people who are actually interested in discovering new things to follow and support can take a look if they so desire.

[portnoyd]

First of all, Joe's museum project is still ongoing, and he has every intention to find a permanent home. His kickstarter doesn't pay for his travels, he used some of it to purchase better storage equipment and showcases, for those types of events. Plus he was pretty open that the money would not be spent immediately on leasing a building somewhere. You can't setup a museum for 30 grand, it takes a lot more.

http://valleywag.gawker.com/kickstarter-project-canceled-after-dude-spends-all-the-912176282?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29

He better watch his ass or some annoyed backers might sue his ass. Those PAX/E3/GDC/8 Months of Nothing updates probably won't keep those people at bay if the lawsuit trains hits Kickstarter town.


As for those who no longer frequent this board, that's fine with me. I found them to be like angry jilted lovers and really any community is better served without their constant negativity. The museum did not push them away, they largely stopped posting here years ago, and continued to fester their vitriol for an otherwise good natured person (Joe) on the vBender IRC or whatever that was instead. And the others who stopped coming here, either they grew up and out of the hobby, or they got sick of those aforementioned malcontents attacking everything.

It's hilarious that you twist what actually happened to make Joe look like a saint and everyone else look like the devil.

Joe's habit of using and discarding people to further his own goals is no secret. It all finally made sense what Etler told me 10 years ago, why the crew at AA doesn't like him, etc.

Oh, what's that? You don't know what I'm talking about?

Wait. You'll be next.

[JSoup]

It's hilarious that you twist what actually happened to make Joe look like a saint and everyone else look like the devil.

Joe's habit of using and discarding people to further his own goals is no secret. It all finally made sense what Etler told me 10 years ago, why the crew at AA doesn't like him, etc.

Oh, what's that? You don't know what I'm talking about?

Wait. You'll be next.

I never really got into the whole community infighting thing, so I'm sensing a few interesting stories behind this post that are new to me.

[Emuaust]

I really wish people would read the logs from what happened on IRC before they formed the opinion that all of vbender where the assholes. Do you want a copy pasta here or somewhere else on the forums?

[badinsults]

First of all, Joe's museum project is still ongoing, and he has every intention to find a permanent home. His kickstarter doesn't pay for his travels, he used some of it to purchase better storage equipment and showcases, for those types of events. Plus he was pretty open that the money would not be spent immediately on leasing a building somewhere. You can't setup a museum for 30 grand, it takes a lot more. As for those who no longer frequent this board, that's fine with me. I found them to be like angry jilted lovers and really any community is better served without their constant negativity. The museum did not push them away, they largely stopped posting here years ago, and continued to fester their vitriol for an otherwise good natured person (Joe) on the vBender IRC or whatever that was instead. And the others who stopped coming here, either they grew up and out of the hobby, or they got sick of those aforementioned malcontents attacking everything.

Good natured? If you wonder why a lot of us soured on Joe, there is a good reason for it. He came into #vbender a few times, absolutely piss drunk and looking to fight. I had to actually ban him from #vbender due to his belligerence. Then afterwards, nz17, the person who is now the webmaster of this website, came in and attempted to troll #vbender many times.

I didn't donate to the museum because I didn't think it would happen, and I let people know about it. Some people are less diplomatic about it, but come on, after the way he acted can you blame them? Would you have donated to the museum after reading this (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?154983-Museum-post-not-related-to-sticky&p=1832666&viewfull=1#post1832666)?

The fact is, any kickstarter worth committing to has a worthwhile purpose, and a plan to accomplish that purpose in a reasonable amount of time. The kickstarter that the OP has set out fails to meet the first criteria, even if their plans to accomplish their goal seemed attainable. That is why nobody is donating. The Digital Press museum failed the second criteria, which is why after two years there is still no advancement in opening a museum. Joe said "within 8 years", which to me meant "probably won't happen". $50,000 is certainly not enough to set up a museum, and in reality it wasn't even their goal. But if their kickstarter had said "raise money to buy unsecured shipping containers in Las Vegas to store display items for E3", I doubt anyone would have went for it.

I still come to this forum, as there are still people here who love to discuss classic games and the oddities of the past generations. I would still love this place to be a "go to" spot for classic gaming and collecting, but perhaps that ship has sailed.

[Greg2600]

It's hilarious that you twist what actually happened to make Joe look like a saint and everyone else look like the devil.

Joe's habit of using and discarding people to further his own goals is no secret. It all finally made sense what Etler told me 10 years ago, why the crew at AA doesn't like him, etc.

Oh, what's that? You don't know what I'm talking about?

Wait. You'll be next.

Well I've known him "off-line" for over 7 years now, and have never had any issues with him. He's very generous at the NAVA events, which you once attended, allowing others to play his personal game systems, some of which are rare. It's his dime that keeps this forum up, the same one you're presently posting on, despite your being irate with him. There are many NAVA attendees and industry veterans who have known Joe since the 90's. I won't run through the names because I don't want them to be put through the ringer along with Joe. I guess he hasn't finished "using them" either? That's all I can go on, since that's how we've interacted.

As for Atari Age, you can buy many homebrews that Al/AA sells at the DP store, so all is well there.

[Gameguy]

http://valleywag.gawker.com/kickstarter-project-canceled-after-dude-spends-all-the-912176282?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29
Wow. There was an article linked off of the page you posted that discusses putting an end to "Online Panhandling", and somehow it seems Joe's museum and the project from this thread are listed as examples. Either that or it's a weird coincidence.

http://gawker.com/5858118/end-online-panhandling-forever



In recent weeks Gawker Media sites have run posts on all sorts of Kickstarter campaigns:

- A toilet paper attack documentary
- a fish tank for jeyllfish
- a book of picture of ugly action figures
- a videogame history museum
- the aforementioned pocket grill
- transplanting a Chevy V8 truck engine into a Mazda Miata
- video camera rollerskates
- a Chris "Leave Britney Alone!" Crocker documentary
- and Yet Another Videogame Website

Yes, some of this stuff sounds kinda neat. And we have no qualms with the site itself, which is reasonably run and, at the right scale, a reasonable tool. But as it grows, Kickstarter is becoming a curse, particularly for people who work in fields where the site has carved a big niche (HELLO independent filmmakers!).

[JSoup]

I still come to this forum, as there are still people here who love to discuss classic games and the oddities of the past generations. I would still love this place to be a "go to" spot for classic gaming and collecting, but perhaps that ship has sailed.

This was brought up a few months ago in one of nz17 site update topics. A few people kept bring up the guide as being the supposed "crown jewel of the site" or some such and that it was outdated as all hell. Others (including me) offer that the main page of the site is full of broken links and outdated information. I submit, for the second time in so many months, that if you all want this community to thrive again, all that crap from the last two sentences needs to be fixed.

I'm not horribly concerned about it in either direction, really. I'm here for the forum. It's not uncommon for me to bookmark a directly link to any given forum I'm using and never look at the main page/main site again.

[badinsults]

This was brought up a few months ago in one of nz17 site update topics. A few people kept bring up the guide as being the supposed "crown jewel of the site" or some such and that it was outdated as all hell. Others (including me) offer that the main page of the site is full of broken links and outdated information. I submit, for the second time in so many months, that if you all want this community to thrive again, all that crap from the last two sentences needs to be fixed.

I'm not horribly concerned about it in either direction, really. I'm here for the forum. It's not uncommon for me to bookmark a directly link to any given forum I'm using and never look at the main page/main site again.

That's the thing though, without a strong presence within the forum, the main website will never be updated. The rarity lists were the result of the collaboration of many people, most of whom are no longer active on this forum. The Digital Press website will never be revived without increasing the presence on the forums with people who are passionate enough to drive content creation. This is another reason why the OPs plan will never work - they intend to create a user driven website without first creating a community who will be willing to do the ground work. As it is now, if people want to get a good rarity guide for Nintendo games, they will probably go to Nintendo Age, which has an active community of people who are willing to keep things up to date. I'm sure you can find examples for other systems as well. Earlier today, I was looking up some information on SNES unreleased games, and remembered this thread (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?11231-SNES-ID-Codes-missing-from-Rarity-List), where people were looking for missing serial codes. These were the kind of threads that drove this site, and led to the games database being as good as it was 10 years ago.

I don't have the time or drive to maintain a monolithic website like Digital Press, but I am willing to help out wherever I can. I try to make a post about my site updates, which should be of interest to many people here. In fact, I am working on a page right now, and I'll be posting it in the next day or two.

[Greg2600]

Unfortunately, regardless of inaction, action or subtraction at Digital Press, console/manufacturer specific forums have sprung up and grown over the last 8 or 9 years. I guess people don't trust that someone posting on Sega-16 knows anything about the Super Nintendo? You're not going to stop creativity or stop people from deciding to start their own forum or whatever. Even if DP were 100% ideal it would still occur. In terms of DP specifically, like I said the negativity has literally driven almost everyone I know personally away. Plus the series of major server issues, both hardware and software, a few years ago, pretty much KO'd it for quite a few more people.

[JSoup]

With lovely trolls and know-it-all jerks like Needler and TheRetroVideoGameAddict, can you really be that surprised with all the negativity?

Maybe it's time to downsize the site. Become a forum only, move anything salvageable from the main site to here. If the forum is pretty much the only aspect of DP that is still functional, may as well own it.

[Tupin]

How did I know, from the second Kickstarter became a "thing," that it would create things like this?

When did "I'll give you money to help get your project off of the ground but expect no ownership/continued profit in return if/when it is successful, just a "free" version of the product itself" become an acceptable business tactic, anyway?

Oh, and if you just want an online site where you beg for money, then this site is much better suited than Kickstarter or Indiegogo. (https://begslist.org/)

[Aussie2B]

With lovely trolls and know-it-all jerks like Needler and TheRetroVideoGameAddict, can you really be that surprised with all the negativity?

That's why I keep repeating that this board needs some actual leadership from its mods/admins. It's just stupid how disruptive and disliked certain members can be without so much as a warning or a topic lock, let alone a ban. I've seen the writing on the wall time and time again with certain new members basically from the second they showed up, yet we have to deal with them dragging down the board for months until somebody in power finally drops the ban hammer. Many years ago, we lost quite a few valuable members who were actually intelligent, contributed to the scene, and cared about the community, just because they had a tendency of being outspoken and cantankerous. It's absolutely ridiculous that the board took such a hardline approach with them, yet lets the dumbass, childish trolls get away with bothering the whole damn board for months on end these days, to the point that when an long overdue ban comes everybody is saying "Finally!" This is not how you keep your members happy and sticking around. Maybe the extreme leniency is out of desperation to retain membership, but I think it's only going to have the opposite effect. I think we can spare a jerk here and there.

[The Adventurer]

When did "I'll give you money to help get your project off of the ground but expect no ownership/continued profit in return if/when it is successful, just a "free" version of the product itself" become an acceptable business tactic, anyway.[/URL]

Way to completely miss the purpose of crowdfunding.


At any rate, whenever I kick in to crowdfunding projects I do with the assumption that their is always a possibility that the product may never materialize and I'll be out my $15-30. Frankly, if you're not prepared to loose a couple of bucks on a dud crowdfunding project, you shouldn't contribute at all.

Crowdfunding is an investment opportunity, and not all investments bear fruit.

[Bojay1997]

Way to completely miss the purpose of crowdfunding.


At any rate, whenever I kick in to crowdfunding projects I do with the assumption that their is always a possibility that the product may never materialize and I'll be out my $15-30. Frankly, if you're not prepared to loose a couple of bucks on a dud crowdfunding project, you shouldn't contribute at all.

Crowdfunding is an investment opportunity, and not all investments bear fruit.

I don't know, I think a lot of the people who have been throwing projects up on Kickstarter lately have missed the "purpose of crowdfunding". When it started, it was generally for things that had little or no commercial viability and which had small but rabid fan bases. People weren't looking to be paid or to support projects that were intended to generate revenue or to be profitable. As soon as essentially commercial video games and films and other projects started going up, it started to become a substitute for companies getting loans or seeking venture capital or even some weird pre-order system. As it stands now, I'm not always sure how to take most projects that go up. Crowdfunding is not an investment opportunity, it's more like a donation with an expectation that you will receive what you are promised as a reward for your generosity. I think we will see some litigation related to failed projects very soon as there have been at least a few scams and/or failures recently with some hint of intentional fraud and/or negligence.

[The Adventurer]

At any rate, if you don't trust crowdfunding initiatives. Don't donate. It's really that simple.

And if you do donate have realistic expectations.

[Bojay1997]

At any rate, if you don't trust crowdfunding initiatives. Don't donate. It's really that simple.

And if you do donate have realistic expectations.

I think that's sound advice. I would also advise people seeking to start their own ventures using crowdfunding to have realistic expectations, to understand that they are subject to significant and justified scrutiny from the people they are seeking to receive funding from just like any charity and to understand that there are some projects and endeavors that should not be pursued via crowdfunding. I think the campaign that started this whole thing is a perfect example of that.

[Greg2600]

I just checked, and between Kickstarter and Indiegogo, I have thrown mainly small $$ at a number of projects the last couple years, and very few have actually completed their stated goal! So like you are saying, I suppose it's not warranted any longer. I do agree that it works best for really far out of the box kind of stuff (like Ouya), or stuff that is technically shovel ready (Veronica Mars), but those are the minority.

[JSoup]

Looking at my list, I've only backed four projects. Of them, one was completed within a week, another one will have part one out this Fall (supposedly), the other two are steadily getting there.

[Baloo]

Kickstarter is a joke, easy way to get free money and publicity online. Who wouldn't vote down funding "projects" where everyone throws in $5 for something to be completed in the "distant" that they'll probably forget about in a few months, and after the kickstarter is funded take the cash and nobody can really do anything about it when the project doesn't come to fruition.

[SegaAges]

Just wanted to say that not everybody who sticks around VBender is an asshole. I just wanted to throw that out there

[JSoup]

So, about 20 hours left on this thing. Got just a hair over $400 so far.

[TheRedEye]

Aw, no need to rub it in.