RIP RetroVGS/Coleco Chameleon: Retro Console Epic Disaster (2015-2016)

[celerystalker]

This all seemed pretty cut and dry, but since I hadn't personally looked deeper into the situation, I had declined to weigh in. Today I had time while my son was napping.

Sweet lord.

Everyone still associated with this debacle needs to re-evaluate how they make life decisions. The gall it takes to put something like that out for display at a toy fair where people can see it is astronomical. One would think that the core consumer for a device like this would be the die hard classic gamer who is sorely missing cartridge gaming, and would like to play new content in the classic style. That kind of player, though, can see through this sort of bullshit without effort... but to compound it, you're only drawing more attention to the lack of new hardware when you aren't showcasing new software that utilizes it.

I have to believe that the core customer they're actually targeting is a combination of rube and some fictional casual consumer who misses the good old days but doesn't really know anything about them.

The fact that they are doing literally anything at all other than apologizing is insulting and shameful.

[Tanooki]

I have to believe that the core customer they're actually targeting is a combination of rube and some fictional casual consumer who misses the good old days but doesn't really know anything about them.

The fact that they are doing literally anything at all other than apologizing is insulting and shameful.

Point.
Set.
and Match.
(On both lines.)

Line 1: Duh. :) It's the same reason all those shitty clone boxes for like 15 years now have existed from the god awful Yobo products to the Retrobit and Hyperkin crap on a chip setups. They're priced for rubes and casuals who remember the old days when they bought/got cartridge games or their family hand me downs and enjoyed that stuff and want to pass that onto their kids or relive it again. Even the well working $130-140 Retron5 (which at least 99% of the time represents very well and beyond in HDMI) still looks cheap to the rube when you could end up buying 3 clones or a GBA+NES(+honeybee), SNES, and Genesis for far more cash. They have no clue the things are shit, and having not played in like 10+ years they won't even realize in most cases the audio or visuals are off, or think a game that fails is just an old turd and take it back for a swap out. It's clear this is meant for all those 2nd tier shops who resell goods whether it's just games or a combo ma/pa or half price books like shop. You see all the used games of the 80s/90s, then you see this flashy new 'safe' product versus the higher(usually) priced originals you may stupidly feel may break anytime over age and undetermined use being used (or horrid price of a new out of box one.) You're all in when you can not only re-live the era with old stuff, but whoa the Chameleon shows up and has 'new' old stuff. WIN WIN.

They need to do far more than apologize I think at this rate, but that would be a friendly start. The mystifying bit to me is how they're screwing with people who know better. At least be semi-honest with them so you can get the funding as the rube isn't going to even know probably what a kickstarter is let alone one exists unless they accident upon some google top story link or some video game page with an article about it. THey need to piss off the retro gamers AFTER they get the cash, not before hand because the rube won't even know or care at this rate as it's not in a shiny box at the store to buy.

[stardust4ever]

What's a "rube?" :p

[fluid_matrix]

What's a "rube?" :p

^^this

also, somebody should seriously take their SNES Jr. and stick it in a Jag shell and sell it as the only known Chameleon prototype on eBay. Profit!

[stardust4ever]

^^this

also, somebody should seriously take their SNES Jr. and stick it in a Jag shell and sell it as the only known Chameleon prototype on eBay. Profit!
I assumed by the usage in Tanooki's post, it was someone who didn't understand what was going on, ie noob.

So I looked it up. I wasn't far off the mark,
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rube


Simple Definition of rube
Popularity: Top 30% of words
: an uneducated person who is usually from the country


Full Definition of rube
1
:* an awkward unsophisticated person :* rustic
2
:* a naive or inexperienced person

As for SNES Mini in a Jag case, at least one AtariAge member has partially disassembled their Jag and SNES Mini for a photo op. It's buried in the Chameleon thread and I don't feel like digging through dozens of pages atm.

EDIT:
http://i.imgur.com/ylscAyR.jpg

[Tanooki]

Meaning #2 was it. The local unknowing bumpkin they can sucker with the console. Funny observational humor pic.

[fluid_matrix]

As for SNES Mini in a Jag case, at least one AtariAge member has partially disassembled their Jag and SNES Mini for a photo op. It's buried in the Chameleon thread and I don't feel like digging through dozens of pages atm.

I was aware somebody had already put one in the Jag shell. I'm saying somebody should actually sell one on eBay as the prototype. Some dolt would probably be dumb enough to pay big bucks for it.

[Tanooki]

I could see that actually work, and worse, I don't think a good enough case could be made for fraud as the seller could just point to the images in the Atari Age thread and the news around online about them using a SNES inside a Jag shell to prototype show off that thing at the Toy Fair. It would be an interesting battle of deceit.

[Gameguy]

I have to believe that the core customer they're actually targeting is a combination of rube and some fictional casual consumer who misses the good old days but doesn't really know anything about them.
Sounds like hipsters.

[stardust4ever]

I was aware somebody had already put one in the Jag shell. I'm saying somebody should actually sell one on eBay as the prototype. Some dolt would probably be dumb enough to pay big bucks for it.

Sounds like a good waste of plastic and retro game systems to me. To complete the illusion, they would want to hack a Super Mario World PCB into the Jag shell.

[bb_hood]

The RetroVGS protable is a atari lynx shell with gameboy guts

[celerystalker]

The RetroVGS protable is a atari lynx shell with gameboy guts

I think you mean an FPGA system with a "working Game Boy core."

[stardust4ever]

I think you mean an FPGA system with a "working Game Boy core."

I think MIST has one.

[Niku-Sama]

I think you mean an FPGA system with a "working Game Boy core."


I think MIST has one.

oh I just watched something about fpgas and Gameboys last night. lemme find it!

found it!

https://youtu.be/IimFxG-n8O8

[Tanooki]

Ooooh gameboy got to watch it. ;)

I can't wait until this bubbles over though the frothy ride to that point is amusing. At this rate a shovel won't even do for the grave being dug as only a back hoe could keep up now, but for how long?

[stardust4ever]

oh I just watched something about fpgas and Gameboys last night. lemme find it!

found it!

https://youtu.be/IimFxG-n8O8

Nice!

[triverse]

Okay, I think I collected all of the facts in one place for anyone that is interested in knowing what is going on without having to sift through nearly 100 pages on AtariAge's forums, RETRO's website, some tech blogs and Google Images.

http://retrogamingmagazine.com/2016/02/22/coleco-chameleon-at-new-york-toy-fair-snes-mini-under-glass/

Thoughts on this?

[PrimordialHelios]

Not sure if anybody's mentioned this, but when showing off the Chameleon at a trade show, it was (judging by video stills) running a SNES flashcart electrical taped to a Jaguar cart to try and hide it.

[fluid_matrix]

So, about that Kickstarter that was supposed to start today.

http://i.imgur.com/JnSda8k.jpg

[celerystalker]

So, about that Kickstarter that was supposed to start today.

http://i.imgur.com/JnSda8k.jpg

I legitimately giggled out loud at this.

[Tanooki]

Sad but potentially true piece of future observational comedy. :)

[buzz_n64]

Just posted 3 hours ago on their Facebook page-

"We’re delaying the Kickstarter for the Coleco Chameleon to make it even better!

Last week during Toy Fair in New York, we had the opportunity to demonstrate the Coleco Chameleon to the industry, gamers and retailers for the first time. Their response was beyond anything we’d imagined. Major retailers provided feedback on the product and expressed real interest in carrying the product for the 2016 holiday season. And, very importantly, major game companies expressed interest in providing games for our system, which meant we’d need more time to solidify those partnerships and maximize the content.

Our team’s overriding goal has always been to deliver the best possible system and experience for gamers. If there’s ever anything we can do to enhance the product, we believe the extra time is worth it. Therefore, we have decided to delay the pre-sell, i.e. Kickstarter, campaign in order to finalize our prototype and work with developers on having the best possible content. This delay will not affect our overall launch date for the Coleco Chameleon.

There has also been a whirlwind of interest, speculation and curiosity regarding the insides of the Chameleon. We are delighted by this and happy to confirm that we will be releasing photographs of the system now on our Facebook page, and we’ll focus on turning our prototype into a production-ready product.

We’ll keep you posted on any major news on our Facebook page and will let you know when we launch a pre-sell program leading up to the Christmas season. Stay tuned, and thanks for your continued support."





Hilarious!

"Major retailers provided feedback on the product and expressed real interest in carrying the product for the 2016 holiday season. And, very importantly, major game companies expressed interest in providing games for our system"

I find this hard to believe.

"There has also been a whirlwind of interest, speculation and curiosity regarding the insides of the Chameleon. We are delighted by this..."

Keep digging your own grave guys. Note- Looks like the console on their page is a different one than that which they demonstrated at the NY Toy Fair.

[Tanooki]

What interests me on this is the simple fact a kickstarter is used to fund a project, or at least the development of the materials on a mass scale someone can not afford to do. Here they're curiously not wanting money because of so called promises from others they'd support it if they had a working prototype to check it out. I'd think you'd be more interested in kickstarting to have a slush fund of cash to rapidly get something ready to show to various suits to get investors and game makers behind it. Seems like a big twisted lie to me.

[Daltone]

Just posted 3 hours ago on their Facebook page-

"We’re delaying the Kickstarter for the Coleco Chameleon to try to make it work

Corrected.

[Steven]

Really though, is anyone surprised? Not me. In fact I expected nothing less. The magazine has been delayed so much, why not the system too?

I think they anticipate a Kickstarter now to bomb so that message is their way of saving face. It's the only prayer they got... to string along those blind folks still invested in this system.

[buzz_n64]

OH MY GOD! I found out through Pat's Facebook that over at Atariage, they found out what the latest Coleco Chameleon prototype actual is.

It's a HICAP50B DVR Capture Card. A freakin' capture card!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcbqbTMVAAAWGGC.jpg

At this point I'm thinking maybe Mike is trying to troll people, I just don't get it. This is the most awkward, weird, deceptive game system story to date.

[Steve W]

Man, if this doesn't kill this project off, nothing will. A random bit of circuit board slapped into a transparent case being pawned off as a prototype console? They obviously don't have any hardware to show at all, this is an elaborate financing scam.

[celerystalker]

This has really gone off the rails. It's no longer embarrassing or sad; it's flatly a desperate scam. I hope Coleco has cause to sue them for breach of contract or defamation or something just to teach the lesson that this is so completely unacceptable in the business world. It's starting to feel predatory.

Edit: I don't mean to imply that it's no longer funny. I just also would like a nice big cathartic ending to it all. This story needs a climactic, brutal ending.

[portnoyd]

It's being gentle calling this a trainwreck. It's like a goddamn meteor crashed into the trainwreck.

[Gentlegamer]

The lulz train rolls on!

[Tanooki]

Wow there's nothing amusing or even sad about this. That's a straight up scam and I guess I shouldn't be surprised they'd be that goddamn stupid to throw a capture card into a see through shell and throw a few plugs in the front and back to make it look like a working console. I mean begging for money and embarrassing Coleco like that at a trade show with this crap would even make a used car salesman sleazeball flinch.

Please someone sue them, preferably Coleco screwing with their image they're trying to resurrect as this is downright fraud and deception.

[Steven]

Speechless. Mike Kennedy has officially ruined whatever small good will he had in the retro community. This whole thing has been bizarre. I actually interacted with him a few times in 2013/14. Always thought he was a good guy. Now? Not anymore. I have not seen such a train wreck as this before. I think we will never see the Kickstarter and I think his Retro magazine dies a sad slow death based on the fact that his name is attached to it. Whole thing is sad, really. And again, bizarre.

[Tanooki]

At this rate the only plausible good way to save it, pop up with a true prototype and pretty quick. Not on video, not a controlled environment, but one where an unbiased set of media people can flick the power, watch it start up, and play stuff -- then inspect the cartridge and console itself having some concept of electrical engineering or what things just need to be to be right, and flatly say 'no shenanigans, it's real.' I just don't see the odds of that being better than nil at this point.

[NinSEGA]

And I was made out to be the bad guy for pointing out that these guys are just scam artists. Him and his racketeering buddies Michael Thomasson and Piko Interactive. Fuck them all.

[Tanooki]

Dude, don't, Piko is honest, don't even go there. I'll stand by him, you call him a crook then I'm a scam artist too. I think it would be safe to say if he had or hadn't seen anything of yet, due to the tentative agreement to supply games he would be under a NDA. As such one with that would not and could not be allowed to say if anything being thrown around is right or wrong because of a potential legal backlash. It's fairly standard in the gaming industry to lock anyone under those so things don't get out.

[NinSEGA]

Yeah, fucking no. I'll leave the detective work to AtariAge (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/247145-coleco-chameleon-hardware-speculations/page-159) and NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1158941). Piko is just as scummy as the rest.

[Tanooki]

I don't usually do this on here, but go fuck yourself you clown. Put up or shut up. I'd like some solid evidence or clam up as you're bordering on libel/slander.

You have nothing but bullshit and speculation on his part. Mike, guilty as hell as it looks at this rate, but Piko, no.

[triverse]

NinSega, what is your proof that Piko Interactive have any involvement in this scam? They have been quite honest and upfront with everyone over on AtariAge and on their site (they have a blog section). Their story has not changed depending on what day of the week it is, they have not bounced around the topic and have stated matter of factually where an NDA contract was in place and they could not discuss further.

I have been covering the RETRO Video Game System/Coleco Chameleon for over a year now. I have covered Piko's games for longer than that. I remember when the original crowdfunding campaign was due to start- it was on IndieGoGo. The day before, may have been day of, the campaign to start, Piko backed out due to concerns with something they learned from the team involved in making the console. They stood up, said no, and stepped out rather than continuing on knowing there were problems with that iteration of the console (I cannot say the same for CollectorVision).

Piko joined the project again, as they were prior- just a third party selling games for a console. They posted their thoughts on the Toy Fair unveiling and since then over on AtariAge.

I have yet to see a post anywhere complaining that Piko Interactive never delivered their game. There are posts all over the place from people that bought Jaguar shells from Mike but had nothing but problems (incomplete orders, or not receiving anything at all). Same for backing the Kickstarter for Mike's magazine- people not happy about the lateness in the issues coming.

I personally run a site called Retro Gaming Magazine and sometimes, 3 or 4 a month, I get an e-mail from a mad subscriber to Mike's magazine. I reply with the explanation that they have the wrong retro magazine, give them the proper one and send them on their way. It is a shame as it appears as the console took away so much from the magazine, which was at one time the perceived high watermark for retro gaming publications.

So please, explain what your reasoning is that they are scam artists like RVGS Inc?

[TonyTheTiger]

This story needs a climactic, brutal ending.

Needs one? I'm actually afraid it could have one. Credibility has been lost. I would like it to stop there if you catch my drift. Mike just needs to stop. Just stop right here and move on. We don't need a "brutal ending."


At this rate the only plausible good way to save it, pop up with a true prototype and pretty quick.

Not even. It's done. No good can come from any further pursuit in this endeavor even if a prototype magically manifested right this second. It just needs to stop for everyone's benefit.

[celerystalker]

Needs one? I'm actually afraid it could have one. Credibility has been lost. I would like it to stop there if you catch my drift. Mike just needs to stop. Just stop right here and move on. We don't need a "brutal ending."



Not even. It's done. No good can come from any further pursuit in this endeavor even if a prototype magically manifested right this second. It just needs to stop for everyone's benefit.

At first, I'd have agreed. After two fake Chameleon prototypes, one at a trade show, this has become fraud. If they are leveraging non-disclosure agreements to keep developers from talking legally, they deserve legal repercussions for the intentional use of fraudulent materials in order to gain financial backing and build partnerships.

[Flamdini]

Obviously it's a Kickstarter (where everything gets suspected of being a scam, despite the fact that usually only the most obvious of scams end up actually being scams) and we don't have much information and it's the internet where everything gets overblown, but I think you guys are overreacting. I realize this is hardly the only site that is defecating itself over this.
Before anybody calls me a plant, know I have my own reservations, despite the fact this is right up my alley (more for the 'chameleon' than the cartridges- we'll have to see just how open this sucker is because I don't have much interest in the steam games and homebrew they have on board right now, I'm more looking at it for the emulation, and not the Retron5 because of their disgusting theft of hard work however high quality of a product they pumped out (and also I have like 5 other devices I could run RetroArch off of) and no ROM support, I have no love for cartridges, I'm just not a very nostalgic person I suppose, I prefer digital myself). I've used this site as a research and lurked it for 5+ years.
The PCBs don't look that similar, to be honest. It's kind of all silicon to me but I still see a few points of divergence- and even one is enough to discredit the hypothesis that it's a capture card. Firstly is the light- why would they even bother with it if it's just a PCB? Secondly is the cartridge- am I supposed to believe it's just resting on the capture card? Third is our white box near the bottom next to the big black chip on the bottom- it stands taller on the prototype. Fourth are the yellow port lookin'-thingies- where are they? Fifthly, I don't know what's near the front there but it's definitely not on the capture card.
You have to remember that people had to go digging through patent archives to find something that resembled it. It wasn't like someone saw it, and thought, "Hey, if that doesn't look like a dang ol' HICAP50BCCTVDVR CAPTURE CARDTM?" Someone reached REALLY hard to find that capture card. And now I'm wondering why they wouldn't just use the SNES Jr. PCB again.
RE: supposed SNES Jr. prototype; that seems like a more interesting story to me, but I still don't buy it yet. Even if it was an SNES board, it would be extremely easy to find and would probably be pretty convenient for use as a power supply and such. We don't even know if there IS a Jr. board in there and we sure as hell don't know if it's JUST a Jr. board. Kennedy said he would sort this out, so we'll let him sort it out. He (or whoever is taking care of the Twitter) also said they would prove the games were running off of their prototype I believe yesterday. Everyone just needs to give them some breathing room. If they don't come through with anything or more bullcrap then we can put the X on them.
Trust, but verify. I'd also like to remind everyone that this is the same internet that craps itself every time a 3DS game gets announced because "OMG the graphics look horribal!!" because they don't understand how resolution scaling works. The same internet that crapped itself when a new Metroid game got confirmed because it wasn't Prime 4. Not because it WAS Prime 4 and it looked horrible, but because it WASN'T Prime 4.
Yeah. They could've announced Dread and Prime fanboys probably would have still whined.

[TonyTheTiger]

He probably used a capture card because that's probably what he had laying around. I've been sensing an increasing case of raw panic in the shenanigans since the first "prototype" video. Everything makes sense once you imagine a solo non-tech savvy guy putting together whatever he can hours before his homework is due.

On the bright side, while he pissed off a lot of people by lying to them and wasting their time he hasn't actually swindled anyone. If he ends the charade now and doesn't move forward with the Kickstarter at the very least he can bow out without ever having taken a dime.

I'll give the first Indiegogo the benefit of the doubt as a big dream gone sour without any ill intent, meaning he can at least maintain the dignity that would come from cancelling his new Kickstarter plans and not try to take money from people while now knowing for sure that he can't deliver. At this point a Kickstarter would certainly fail but given the recent events it would be a failed swindle. I hope he has the integrity to at least stop at the point of engaging in a bald-faced scam.

[Flamdini]

Well on the bright side, while he pissed off a lot of people by lying to them and wasting their time he hasn't actually swindled anyone. If he ends the charade now and doesn't move forward with the Kickstarter at the very least he can bow out without ever having taken a dime.

I'll give the first Indiegogo the benefit of the doubt as a big dream gone sour without any ill intent, meaning he can at least maintain the dignity that would come from cancelling his new Kickstarter plans and not try to take money from people while now knowing for sure that he can't deliver. At this point a Kickstarter would certainly fail but given the recent events it would be a failed swindle. I hope he has the integrity to at least stop at the point of engaging in a bald-faced scam.

He isn't scamming anyone, and we don't know if he's lying or wasting anyone's time. He even SAID it was only the power supply and video that weren't finished and that's why the ass end of a SNES was stuck on there. I imagine he said as much if anyone asked him about it at the show.
RE: the PCB size comparisons- PCBs tend to be pretty samey in size and I wouldn't take them seriously.

EDIT: You mean the one with the messy desk? They fired that guy. He was the reason why it was going to cost more than a Wii U and not $150 like it does now. They have multiple people on their team, even if Kennedy isn't "tech savvy". It's not a one man operation. They've been trying at this way too hard for it to be a scam.

[celerystalker]

This has to be some sort of trolling. New account with 2 posts, both defending some of the most obvious fakes imaginable. PCBs are not kind of "same-y." They have easily identifiable components that have well-defined functions. Trying to enforce ignorance on people won't work. There are engineers here as well as hobbyists. When I look at an arcade pcb I have to fix, I don't have to guess at which one I grabbed off of the shelf, even if they have the same edge connector.

There are so many ways the team could have put this all to rest. Photos of the pcb from multiple angles. Hell, they only left the cart in the shell on the latest one to cover up that there's not even a cartridge slot on that pcb. They are well aware of the criticisms and have chosen not to address them. That's why this is obvious trolling. No one being objective is that dumb.

[Flamdini]

This has to be some sort of trolling. New account with 2 posts, both defending some of the most obvious fakes imaginable. PCBs are not kind of "same-y." They have easily identifiable components that have well-defined functions. Trying to enforce ignorance on people won't work. There are engineers here as well as hobbyists. When I look at an arcade pcb I have to fix, I don't have to guess at which one I grabbed off of the shelf, even if they have the same edge connector.

There are so many ways the team could have put this all to rest. Photos of the pcb from multiple angles. Hell, they only left the cart in the shell on the latest one to cover up that there's not even a cartridge slot on that pcb. They are well aware of the criticisms and have chosen not to address them. That's why this is obvious trolling. No one being objective is that dumb.
I'm actually not trolling, and it dismays me that someone would assume I'm trolling for having a difference of opinion (though of course this is the same forum in which someone took an april fool's day joke about a butter monster personally so that's neither here nor there).
They're hardly "some of the most obvious fakes imaginable". This thing is much further along than, say, the Phantom.
PCBs are VERY same-y. They're silicon with random pillars and bumps on the top. But regardless, I was referring to size, which is all the conspiracists had to go off of.
You don't know there's not a cartridge slot.
Just wait. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not even standing by what I'm saying very firmly here.

[shawnphase]

'just wait' - said the scameleon team NEVER

[Gentlegamer]

SoCalMike has a new alt.

[celerystalker]

If nothing else, there's a similar lack of understanding of electronics. The only way those posts are legit are if they are written by someone who not only has no idea what they're looking at with a pcb, but has chosen not to look any deeper as well. If it's trolling, it's silly and transparent. If it's honest, it's sad. There is literally nothing random about a printed circuit board.

[Flamdini]

SoCalMike has a new alt.
Man, you genius. You complete genius. You did a good job there, implying I'm a plant. That was really original of you. Your mom must be so proud, I'm actually proud by proxy already. You're a genuine credit to the race.
You're right about one thing- I don't know much about PCBs, but I know enough to say the resemblance isn't enough to jump to conclusions.

'just wait' - said the scameleon team NEVER
Your point?

[Flamdini]

Yeah, this will probably be my last post because I had underestimated just how stoogey this board actually was. Later.

[celerystalker]

Man, you genius. You complete genius. You did a good job there, implying I'm a plant. That was really original of you. Your mom must be so proud, I'm actually proud by proxy already. You're a genuine credit to the race.
You're right about one thing- I don't know much about PCBs, but I know enough to say the resemblance isn't enough to jump to conclusions.

Your point?

You don't know enough to sat that. Every single component on every pcb is specific in both placement and function. The capacitors are holding charge to keep specific nearby components functioning properly. The resistors are regulating the flow of electricity to keep the current within acceptable range. Edge connectors exist to allow connection to other components, and so on. A console pcb and a capture card perform far too different functions to share that many components and placement. It's not jumping to a conclusion in this case. It's a factual observation that the pcb in that shell is in no way a console pcb.

The burden of proof on a project like this is on the development team trying to use these fakes to build funding and business partnerships, and it would be the simplest thing in the world for them to take five minutes and shoot photos of the functioning prototype from multiple angles and upload them. It would take literally less than five minutes to shut the whole world up. They don't because they can't. They can't deny that the new prototype contains a capture card. They can't deny that the toy fair unit was a Super Nintendo, because that's what they are. It's not up for debate, so they don't debate it. They delete, skirt the issue, and say, "just wait, it's going to be awesome."

What would have been awesome would have been not using fraudulent materials to try and build a business. People would have waited. People wanted to believe, and to support this project. The backlash is so vehement because of the flippant disregard for the intelligence of the potential backers to insultingly think that none of us were going to recognize the problems with the hardware. Retro gaming enthusiasts repair broken hardware. We rebuild arcade pcbs and cabinets. We flash roms to replace corrupted ones, we remove lockout chips, and we build gaming PCs. This tech isn't a mystery. It's stuff people recognize because they are familiar with it. Your lack of familiarity does not make them wrong. You're choosing to ignore it because you don't understand it or just so badly want it to all be real that you're ostensibly closing your eyes, putting your hands over your ears, and singing the national anthem.

[Emperor Megas]

You're choosing to ignore it because you don't understand it or just so badly want it to all be real that you're ostensibly closing your eyes, putting your hands over your ears, and singing the national anthem.Which nation?

[celerystalker]

Which nation?

I like to think it's Strong-badia. I haven't watched Homestar Runner in ages. Come toooo the place where tropical breezes bloooooow...

[triverse]

EDIT: You mean the one with the messy desk? They fired that guy. He was the reason why it was going to cost more than a Wii U and not $150 like it does now. They have multiple people on their team, even if Kennedy isn't "tech savvy". It's not a one man operation. They've been trying at this way too hard for it to be a scam.

I don't know anymore than anyone else posting on this, none of us were there, but I am currently interviewing John Carlsen and will have the interview available sooner than later. I brought up the cost of the system originally, the infamous YouTube video, etc and well, it is not what we were led to believe. Take that as you will because at the end of the day, it is the word of each against the other. The point is, Mr. Carlsen breaks his silence soon.

[Tanooki]

Good for him I'd like to hear more. All said what is out there is damning, and will be hard to bounce back off of for those already set in their minds about it. But say for argument they go ahead with it, somehow get the funding, get this to market not so much just online but at all those 2nd hand and some new gaming item shops around the US and beyond, they'd probably do fine if and only if it's cheap and the games are too (I'm talking like $20-30 carts) which ooze quality.

[shawnphase]

Your point?

my point is that you are fucking drunk on snake oil.

[Herb Tarlek]

Which nation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4pTejRBxSc

[badinsults]

Yeah, this will probably be my last post because I had underestimated just how stoogey this board actually was. Later.


Alrighty then Mike. You had a good thing going with your Gamegavel and Retro Magazine ventures, but you can only milk the retro gaming community so much. You should just admit that you don't have the first idea about how to actually put out a piece of hardware, and stop trying to pull off what has become an increasingly pathetic scam. No one is going to give you any benefit of the doubt anymore, and it is especially laughable that you think we will fall for this shill account that you have made. Before the Toy Show convention, we could have at least said you were just a naive fool with your head in a cloud, but it is pretty clear now that you are wilfully trying to scam people. When Coleco Holdings inevitably pulls your funding, you better hope they don't sue your ass for trying to misrepresent your hardware displays.

[fluid_matrix]

They're hardly "some of the most obvious fakes imaginable". This thing is much further along than, say, the Phantom.


By "Phantom", I assume you mean the Infinium Phantom? THIS (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/07/ars-reader-so-a-guy-walks-into-my-shop-with-an-infinium-phantom-console/) Infinium Phantom where an ACTUAL (not faked) prototype was discovered last year?

[Flamdini]

You don't know enough to sat that. Every single component on every pcb is specific in both placement and function. The capacitors are holding charge to keep specific nearby components functioning properly. The resistors are regulating the flow of electricity to keep the current within acceptable range. Edge connectors exist to allow connection to other components, and so on. A console pcb and a capture card perform far too different functions to share that many components and placement. It's not jumping to a conclusion in this case. It's a factual observation that the pcb in that shell is in no way a console pcb.

The burden of proof on a project like this is on the development team trying to use these fakes to build funding and business partnerships, and it would be the simplest thing in the world for them to take five minutes and shoot photos of the functioning prototype from multiple angles and upload them. It would take literally less than five minutes to shut the whole world up. They don't because they can't. They can't deny that the new prototype contains a capture card. They can't deny that the toy fair unit was a Super Nintendo, because that's what they are. It's not up for debate, so they don't debate it. They delete, skirt the issue, and say, "just wait, it's going to be awesome."

What would have been awesome would have been not using fraudulent materials to try and build a business. People would have waited. People wanted to believe, and to support this project. The backlash is so vehement because of the flippant disregard for the intelligence of the potential backers to insultingly think that none of us were going to recognize the problems with the hardware. Retro gaming enthusiasts repair broken hardware. We rebuild arcade pcbs and cabinets. We flash roms to replace corrupted ones, we remove lockout chips, and we build gaming PCs. This tech isn't a mystery. It's stuff people recognize because they are familiar with it. Your lack of familiarity does not make them wrong. You're choosing to ignore it because you don't understand it or just so badly want it to all be real that you're ostensibly closing your eyes, putting your hands over your ears, and singing the national anthem. Well OK genius, why don't you take the PCB and plug it in and watch it be a capture card? You seem to know everything. Keep in mind how hard people had to look to find a match. I hate to put it so bluntly, but a very large portion of people on boards like this and AtariAge are immature and insociable cretins.


I don't know anymore than anyone else posting on this, none of us were there, but I am currently interviewing John Carlsen and will have the interview available sooner than later. I brought up the cost of the system originally, the infamous YouTube video, etc and well, it is not what we were led to believe. Take that as you will because at the end of the day, it is the word of each against the other. The point is, Mr. Carlsen breaks his silence soon.I'll be watching. I'll also be doubting; there's no way a regular old console could tally up to $300, at the very least I believe Kennedy's claims that Carlsen drove the price up by adding a bunch of extra crap. If anything, two versions of the same story will AT LEAST give us more insight.


By "Phantom", I assume you mean the Infinium Phantom? THIS (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/07/ars-reader-so-a-guy-walks-into-my-shop-with-an-infinium-phantom-console/) Infinium Phantom where an ACTUAL (not faked) prototype was discovered last year?Same one that faked a prototype at E3.

[celerystalker]

Well OK genius, why don't you take the PCB and plug it in and watch it be a capture card? You seem to know everything. Keep in mind how hard people had to look to find a match. I hate to put it so bluntly, but a very large portion of people on boards like this and AtariAge are immature and insociable cretins.

I'll be watching. I'll also be doubting; there's no way a regular old console could tally up to $300, at the very least I believe Kennedy's claims that Carlsen drove the price up by adding a bunch of extra crap. If anything, two versions of the same story will AT LEAST give us more insight.

Same one that faked a prototype at E3.

If the "prototype" were in my possession, I gladly would turn it on, take pictures, and put an end to all of this nonsense. It didn't take forum members much "hard work" at all. It looked like a capture card, so they started Googling capture card images. Thanks for calling me a genius, though. I'll make sure to walk around with false bravado all day.

[Tanooki]

Whoa Flamdini slow your roll. I get what you're pissed, but try and understand you just signed up, and all you're doing is pointing out how everyone is on the murder mike internet gang bang against his project trying to defend him. Admirable, but think about it, it looks pretty damning to sign up and only protest the other side on a thread like this no matter which site it may be. To get hot and throw out the classic 'I should have figured the site sucked even more' type line does no favors either.

You could in theory be right, it could be wrong, hell it oculd be that in the box wired to a board under to capture info or it could be in there to cover up the real board since all they had was a clear shell. No one knows but those on the inside who have a NDA related to hardware, not the games.

[FieryReign]

It's just beating a dead horse at this point. Haha, point and laugh. Pile it on. Cool thing to do. We get it.

Retrogame community is vicious, they should have predicted that, just from browsing forums or youtube comments. Not sure how it started as a love letter to the old school gamers, yet did a complete 180 in the process, and pissed them off?

I get the feeling no type of retro console like this could ever exist. Probably because the intended audience is so fickle and vitriol, the manufacturer would literally have to fed ex blowjobs to kickstart supporters just to ease their minds. Yet, Sony and M$ could literally put a broken piece of equipment in a pretty box, and y'all flock to that shit like green flies?

Whatever, whatever. Soflomike did this and that. Yeah, yeah. Phony prototypes. Phony talk. Blah, blah. Ok. They failed. We get it. If I hear one more philosophical comment from some business minded gamer who thinks he knows everything, my head will explode.

[Emperor Megas]

Well OK genius, why don't you take the PCB and plug it in and watch it be a capture card? You seem to know everything. Keep in mind how hard people had to look to find a match. I hate to put it so bluntly, but a very large portion of people on boards like this and AtariAge are immature and insociable cretins.I guess it wasn't your last post after all.

[rmaerz]

Does Digital Press plan on continuing their affiliation with Game Gavel as seen on the home page?

[bb_hood]

I hate to put it so bluntly, but a very large portion of people on boards like this and AtariAge are immature and insociable cretins.


Yeah, thats gonna happen when you 'make' a fake non-working video game system and ask for millions of dollars.



I'll be watching....
-_-

[celerystalker]

I just hate it being treated like some kind of witch hunt against the RetroVGS team, like the world is out to get them. Most people were either indifferent or hopeful that this might be an interesting system to play. It's been their own fault the way it's transpired. If they'dve just not tried to show anything until they had a good, working prototype, they wouldn't be getting such backlash. The already territorial retro gaming community was insulted by these bizarre moves, as they make people feel like the RetroVGS team thinks they must be stupid and gullible.

Players are used to delays. They would have accepted delays. I don't know what financial or whatever burden has caused all of these strange moves, because they make no sense unless they're running out of money or something else that's forcing a timeline they can't keep.

[fluid_matrix]

Same one that faked a prototype at E3.

So has it been later shown that the prototype found was faked then? If so, I didn't see/couldn't find an updated story. Can you link me the updated story since you apparently have the insight on the matter?

[Gentlegamer]

Keep in mind how hard people had to look to find a match.

It took them about 3 minutes, and then 10 minutes after that for you to delete the pic from Facebook.

[portnoyd]

This is a pretty incredible thread. I can't believe we actually invoked SoCalMike (or more likely, Chris Cardillo) to come and attempt to defend this travesty. Amazing.

[TonyTheTiger]

This was never a witch hunt or even a particularly aggressive "movement" against Mike Kennedy. People were just reacting to what the RVGS/CC team was putting out there and the more absurd the story got, the more vocal people became. After the Indiegogo ended the whole thing fell pretty silent. People didn't start getting fired up until they saw a Super Nintendo in a Jaguar shell. The capture card just added more fuel. But, truthfully, I think even now people would be happy to just let it end if Mike Kennedy came clean. Sure, his credibility is shot after all the shenanigans but very few people, if any, are asking for his head on a platter. Nobody has any interest in spending their time bullying this guy. He could probably close shop now, end the charade, and nobody would bother him about it anymore provided he doesn't try to do it again.

[badinsults]

It's just beating a dead horse at this point. Haha, point and laugh. Pile it on. Cool thing to do. We get it.

Retrogame community is vicious, they should have predicted that, just from browsing forums or youtube comments. Not sure how it started as a love letter to the old school gamers, yet did a complete 180 in the process, and pissed them off?

I get the feeling no type of retro console like this could ever exist. Probably because the intended audience is so fickle and vitriol, the manufacturer would literally have to fed ex blowjobs to kickstart supporters just to ease their minds. Yet, Sony and M$ could literally put a broken piece of equipment in a pretty box, and y'all flock to that shit like green flies?

Whatever, whatever. Soflomike did this and that. Yeah, yeah. Phony prototypes. Phony talk. Blah, blah. Ok. They failed. We get it. If I hear one more philosophical comment from some business minded gamer who thinks he knows everything, my head will explode.


This is a ridiculous accusation. Have you been paying attention since the beginning? There were tons of people who supported this venture at the start, and it really only started to go downhill when the Indiegogo was launched. Hell, even I, a person who thought that Kennedy's idea of launch a cart-based system was a dumb idea from the beginning, wrote a relatively positive article (http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=1085) about it after the indiegogo. This was not taken down by people out to get Kennedy. This project failed because they were trying to commit outright fraud. If you can ignore that, I don't know what else to say. Kennedy lies in the bed he made, and no one should ever give him money to do something ever again. If Kennedy just went away, this whole thing would die down pretty quickly, but he keeps posting more ridiculous lies, so it is like the gift that keeps on giving.

[Flamdini]

So has it been later shown that the prototype found was faked then? If so, I didn't see/couldn't find an updated story. Can you link me the updated story since you apparently have the insight on the matter?
I believe you misunderstood me, there was a prototype later but the one shown at E3 was a phony.

It took them about 3 minutes, and then 10 minutes after that for you to delete the pic from Facebook.

This is a pretty incredible thread. I can't believe we actually invoked SoCalMike (or more likely, Chris Cardillo) to come and attempt to defend this travesty. Amazing.
There's that young ol' dang ol' plant accusation again. It's like whenever you say something contrary to the contrarians on Youtube comments and get called a troll, only this place thinks it has some sort of quality control.

This was never a witch hunt or even a particularly aggressive "movement" against Mike Kennedy. People were just reacting to what the RVGS/CC team was putting out there and the more absurd the story got, the more vocal people became. After the Indiegogo ended the whole thing fell pretty silent. People didn't start getting fired up until they saw a Super Nintendo in a Jaguar shell. The capture card just added more fuel. But, truthfully, I think even now people would be happy to just let it end if Mike Kennedy came clean. Sure, his credibility is shot after all the shenanigans but very few people, if any, are asking for his head on a platter. Nobody has any interest in spending their time bullying this guy. He could probably close shop now, end the charade, and nobody would bother him about it anymore provided he doesn't try to do it again.
See, you keep saying this but they already offered an explanation for the SNES gambit (power supply and video, like I speculated!!!) and I'm sure they'll have an explanation for this. You act like it's 100% CONFIRMED GUYS EXPOSED EXPOSED and it's not.

This was not taken down by people out to get Kennedy. This project failed because they were trying to commit outright fraud. If you can ignore that, I don't know what else to say. Kennedy lies in the bed he made, and no one should ever give him money to do something ever again. If Kennedy just went away, this whole thing would die down pretty quickly, but he keeps posting more ridiculous lies, so it is like the gift that keeps on giving.
It's not fraud.
Here's something-

Chameleon Product: We are thankful to have a large group of passionate engineers and retro game enthusiasts who follow Coleco and other product lines. It has come to our attention that the community has certain concerns over the prototypes involving the Retro VGS model. The team at Retro remains confident that their product is developed to the extent as describe; HOWEVER, in order to confirm or debase these concerns, Coleco has demanded to inspect the prototype units within a seven day time frame. At which time, independent engineers will review their findings and determine if those units are up to our standards. We will report some or all of those findings to the community so as long as they do not interfere with proprietary information. We remain hopeful that the community's concerns are merely speculations, but if there is merit to the concerns, then we have no choice but to abandon the project rather than release a sub-par product. During this time, we ask that the community allow us time to complete these inspections. Time extensions will only be granted if requested by the independent engineer. Time extensions and results will be posted here.
Off of Coleco Holdings' Facebook from yesterday. Wait for March 9th for nothing to happen before you flip out.

[celerystalker]

I believe you misunderstood me, there was a prototype later but the one shown at E3 was a phony.


There's that young ol' dang ol' plant accusation again. It's like whenever you say something contrary to the contrarians on Youtube comments and get called a troll, only this place thinks it has some sort of quality control.

See, you keep saying this but they already offered an explanation for the SNES gambit (power supply and video, like I speculated!!!) and I'm sure they'll have an explanation for this. You act like it's 100% CONFIRMED GUYS EXPOSED EXPOSED and it's not.

It's not fraud.
Here's something-

Off of Coleco Holdings' Facebook from yesterday. Wait for March 9th for nothing to happen before you flip out.

The reason you've been called a plant, as Tanooki very politely stated, is that you jumped right into this thread with a new account immediately defending a project that clearly doesn't have the good faith of the community. No introduction in the sticky thread that is there for that purpose, no attempt to join in on any other part of the conversation in any other thread on the site... just a "hey, come on guys, give it a chance" following hot on the heels of another photographic fiasco. Even if you are 100% innocent here, it still looks absolutely ridiculous. This thread wasn't any more active than the occasional eyeroll recently until you showed up and started citing what the Chameleon team says as the support to your statements.

I'm not even going after the lack of understanding of electronics anymore. You don't care, and that's fine. If you knew how simple it is to get power in and video out on a system, you'd understand why using the back end of an SNES makes no sense, and furthermore, either way it's stealing proprietary technology and calling it their own.

If Coca-Cola wants to get a new soft drink into stores, they don't slap a new label on a bottle of Mountain Dew and say, "Hey, Wal-Mart, you should pre-order a pallet for every store. It's basically gonna be this right here, but even more awesome, just you wait!" No. They create the product. They do focus group testing. They test market it in different areas to find their target demographics. Then, they create a presentation inculuding the test market results, projected sales and best potential placement strategies, and then they have the buyers for the retailer and usually some board members taste the product during the presentation.

Coleco/Retro has not shown a single shred of functioning unique technology, nor have they shown a single unique game running on that hardware. There is nothing here at all other than hope bolstered by misdirection. Nobody wants anybody drug out and publicly flogged. They just want the nonsense to stop. If you don't have a real product, don't try to show it until you do. I hope that audit on the 9th is legit and puts this all away. I just want to talk about video games that exist.

[Gentlegamer]

Mike, the guys at Atari Age were able to 100% recreate the Toy Fair fraud with a SNES mini board and a Jaguar shell. Every thing matched up.

The thread is too big or I'd go find the pics.