RIP RetroVGS/Coleco Chameleon: Retro Console Epic Disaster (2015-2016)

[portnoyd]

http://www.retrovgs.com/

If you haven't heard, our dear old SoCalMike, fresh off Kickstarting a magazine, decides he's qualified enough to make his own game console.

Wait, it gets better. It gets so much better.

Let's just do a checklist, in no particular order:

1. Was originally going to be funded on Kickstarter, but had to switch to Indiegogo because they do not have a working prototype. Total bullshit that Indiegogo is "courting" them, when Indiegogo couldn't give a shit. Just like how you had "conversations" with Konami and Capcom?

2. SoCalMike has begun deleting negative comments from the system's Facebook page because the blowback has been getting worse and worse.

3. The system will cost $300, $100 less than a PS4 or Xbone, or as much as a WiiU.

4. Two words: Cardboard PCB (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3316391)

5. Here's the current game selection, look out guys, Super Noah's Ark, courtesy of the nitwit at Pika Interactive! Games List (http://www.retrovgs.com/games.html)

6. Should be number one, but they are using the Jaguar die to make the system shells. Sure, let's get our system off the right start by using the shell of a total failure game console.

7. SoCalMike and his team do not have even have a board layout. An inside source has been cited as saying "Every time I talk to them, the design was 100% different".

If you can read all this and still confidently give SoCalMike your money for this system, then there is no hope for you.

The AA thread is also gold.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-48

[Tanooki]

I agree with you on a lot of this, but that cardboard you linked wasn't a working model just a really shitty mock up, and Piko isn't an idiot. The rest of the stuff you're spot on and criticism is deserved especially when you dick with people removing honest questions to downright negative feedback and charging $300 for that is a joke. Even as bad off as the WiiU has been and will remain, at least you can fairly more confidently justify that price given the big ass tablet controller and the library of stuff from Nintendo alone that's quality enough to make it look even worse. To want to take money from people when you don't even have a working proto and to find idiots in the indiegogo people to help you push that potential scam is even more distasteful and puts a sickening questionmark on trusting that site in the future too.

I'd be lying if I didn't say I was interested and I am still curious, but the price is garbage even if it comes to market I won't pay anywhere near that. You may get a few new experiences there, but most of it, not a chance. If you want to piss over $100 on a console, at least get a Retron5 as it has 2 decades worth of games to screw around with over 10 systems (soon 11 when SMS is added.) That thing is going to go up in flames if it comes out without some serious reorganization of things.

[Berserker]

It almost feels like the whole thing is set up to appeal to people who are going to want to buy it whether they think it's going to be sustainable or not, which to me isn't unthinkable considering the target audience are collectors and people who play dead consoles. Or it could be that he simply promised the moon to himself along with everyone else.

Regardless, there just doesn't seem to be anything real there. I think if it does manage to leave the gate, it's only going to limp out a few steps before collapsing into a pile of cardboard and regret. It's just a shame other people are going to be stuck with the bill.

[Greg2600]

I can't get past the Jaguar cases. RETRO have been blasted pretty well globally among the classic gaming community. I don't really want to pile on. I'm just not certain a market exists the way they thought it did. Even if this console came to market at $99 using a custom/new design, and fully functional, who will buy it? I cannot imagine it could sell more than 1,000 units. This was my issue from day one, I just don't perceive a niche even. All the other stuff, including the recent stuff is kind of irrelevant.

[Pikointeractive]

http://www.retrovgs.com/

If you haven't heard, our dear old SoCalMike, fresh off Kickstarting a magazine, decides he's qualified enough to make his own game console.

Wait, it gets better. It gets so much better.

Let's just do a checklist, in no particular order:

1. Was originally going to be funded on Kickstarter, but had to switch to Indiegogo because they do not have a working prototype. Total bullshit that Indiegogo is "courting" them, when Indiegogo couldn't give a shit. Just like how you had "conversations" with Konami and Capcom?

2. SoCalMike has begun deleting negative comments from the system's Facebook page because the blowback has been getting worse and worse.

3. The system will cost $300, $100 less than a PS4 or Xbone, or as much as a WiiU.

4. Two words: Cardboard PCB (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3316391)

5. Here's the current game selection, look out guys, Super Noah's Ark, courtesy of the nitwit at Pika Interactive! Games List (http://www.retrovgs.com/games.html)

6. Should be number one, but they are using the Jaguar die to make the system shells. Sure, let's get our system off the right start by using the shell of a total failure game console.

7. SoCalMike and his team do not have even have a board layout. An inside source has been cited as saying "Every time I talk to them, the design was 100% different".

If you can read all this and still confidently give SoCalMike your money for this system, then there is no hope for you.

The AA thread is also gold.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-48


Hi,

I did not wanted SNA3D on Retro VGS. I rooted for Dorke and Ymp as is a great game and original IP. however I just showed Retro VGS our library of games and they picked SNA3D for some reason.

Thanks for the compliment though, shows class.

[Tupin]

Where is the market for this even if it were cheap and not vaporware?

[The Adventurer]

Where is the market for this even if it were cheap and not vaporware?

It is trying to fit a very strange niche. I mean the Ouya was able to handle retro style games, and emulate older systems. And that tanked.

[Tanooki]

I think it's trying to appeal to the Nintendo/Sega cart fan who wants something new who probably blew through the stuff they didn't consider crap on those old systems already, but the price is well beyond prohibitive into comical at $300. Also given what Piko just posted, they're stupid on that front too taking that old SNES joke of a cart and wanting that over far better options like Dorke and Ymp. Why have something from the period that's new when you can have a panned turd people over pay for because it's hard to find?!

[o.pwuaioc]

Even as bad off as the WiiU has been and will remain, at least you can fairly more confidently justify that price given the big ass tablet controller and the library of stuff from Nintendo alone that's quality enough to make it look even worse.

Even I would be a Wii U before this PoS.

[Steven]

RETRO have been blasted pretty well globally among the classic gaming community.

Hate to say it as I was a proud year 1 AND year 2 backer, but the latest RETRO issues have not been good, or rather, have not interested me much. I thought they were showing some improvements in like issues 5, 6 and 7. But the last two in particular have been meh to me at best. They've gone back to plain white or black backgrounds and the design of the magazine is so bleh. Also, I'd like a better focus on retro games and there really isn't much. Unless things get better in the next couple issues, I don't see myself funding them for a 3rd year. Also, the incredible delay in the magazine has annoyed me. It's supposed to come out every other month, but they've fallen behind this BIG time. And I don't see them catching up. When a company or brand can't keep its word, I immediately grow weary of longevity and quality. I'd be more forgiving if the issues were amazing for the extra delay but they are honestly very forgettable. Maybe I'm expecting too much but Retro has been a disappointment, especially in the last 6 months (i.e. last 2 issues) or so. Also, look at the Kickstarter comments -- so many subscribers missing issues and not receiving them. It's frankly embarrassing and makes Mike and his team look very bad in general. Why are so many people missing issues? How hard could it be to get the shipping right?

The Retro VGS? To be kind, I like Mike but the general mishandling of RETRO (perhaps not on Mike but his name is a big part of the project) and the red flags surrounding this system leaves me with very little faith that this thing will even reach the levels of "semi-moderate success and customer satisfaction." Shoot, I'll just stick with the tried and true SNES. I wish them the best but I have my doubts, and I'm not going to pay money for this particular project.

[sfchakan]

The Indiegogo has been launched (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retro-vgs), despite the project having no working prototype.

Over $23,000 USD from about 60 people fairly quickly. Only 1% funded.

[portnoyd]

Thanks for the compliment though, shows class.

Well, you are in fact a nitwit.

Also, $2 million dollars? Bwahahahahahahahaha

[Pikointeractive]

Well, you are in fact a nitwit.

Also, $2 million dollars? Bwahahahahahahahaha

Says the guy insulting people in a forum behind a keyboard thousands of miles away lol.

[portnoyd]

Says the guy insulting people in a forum behind a keyboard thousands of miles away lol.

Says the guy who signed up to our forums just to insult someone who called you out on your idiocy.

[Pikointeractive]

Says the guy who signed up to our forums just to insult someone who called you out on your idiocy.

Been in this forum forever. Mostly lurk than post ;)

[Tanooki]

Ok you two, hug, tongue hockey and make nice. :P


that said, this guy is on coke if he thinks with all the bad press he got (and likely even without that) people would just throw $2M at this especially without even a working unit. Being on paper, and physically ready with one working system are entirely two different things.

As to his magazine, I never saw the appeal as it just looked like a play for cash both years. I'm sorry but if they can't fund a magazine, especially in year 2, that they again have to beg for a lot of cash on top of paid subs, there's no viable market for it or they have no damn clue how to not mismanage money and resources and shouldn't be trusted. And if they can't keep a piddly gaming magazine in digital or real print, that says nothing to having any confidence to be begging for $2M to fun that box of theirs. I mean I like the idea of it, hell if it were Retron 5 priced, actually existed, and the games were cheap like $20-30 (gameboy era) I'd be on board if I liked the software line up. As it stands now, they're this sad dying thing that doesn't know it's a corpse to be.

[JSoup]

Been in this forum forever. Mostly lurk than post ;)

Join Date: Mar 2013

[portnoyd]

Been in this forum forever. Mostly lurk than post ;)

Not these forums.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15347671/poka.png

Regardless, it looks like they dropped Super Noah's Ark 3D from the line up anyway, which is really the best possible outcome for you.

Current pace for the Indiegogo is to fail by a large margin. GigantiLOL.

[Pikointeractive]

Not these forums.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15347671/poka.png

Regardless, it looks like they dropped Super Noah's Ark 3D from the line up anyway, which is really the best possible outcome for you.

Current pace for the Indiegogo is to fail by a large margin. GigantiLOL.

Meh ok, yeah that one I did. Mar 2013 is when I made an account but had another old account; I started to read up gaming forums in 2012 though. I collected on my own without information before that.

And I do agree portnoyd, seems Noah's is out which is good. According to crowdcharts the project will not get funded:

http://crowdcharts.com/campaign/retro-vgs

[Tanooki]

Hate to sound mean, but the realist in me says it NEEDS to fail. Not because it's a bad idea, not because it's a cartridge console in the 21st century, but because Mike and crew are super sketchy and string people along on fairy dust and moon beams with not one grain of anything truthfully solid to back the claim this actually functionally exists yet having the huge brass balls to panhandle for 2 million dollars. That's my big issue.

If they did this right, had a working proto, got the community more interested and lined up some solid games and didn't just pick and choose random turds or lesser things while making a cardboard circuit board with crap glued to it I'd say it would deserve a fighting chance. Right now it along with their failed magazine that needs not just a subscription from people but also begged for dollars to keep in print on top both need to just go vaporware and disperse into the winds.

[Pikointeractive]

Hate to sound mean, but the realist in me says it NEEDS to fail. Not because it's a bad idea, not because it's a cartridge console in the 21st century, but because Mike and crew are super sketchy and string people along on fairy dust and moon beams with not one grain of anything truthfully solid to back the claim this actually functionally exists yet having the huge brass balls to panhandle for 2 million dollars. That's my big issue.

If they did this right, had a working proto, got the community more interested and lined up some solid games and didn't just pick and choose random turds or lesser things while making a cardboard circuit board with crap glued to it I'd say it would deserve a fighting chance. Right now it along with their failed magazine that needs not just a subscription from people but also begged for dollars to keep in print on top both need to just go vaporware and disperse into the winds.

Seems like Kevtris had already done a proto of something similar, even better:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199

[megasdkirby]

$300...wow, just wow.

And with the Playstation 4 dropping to $300...and that the Xbox One being $350 (and possibly $300 to counter Sony)...I see no real reason to own this.

$300...





$300!!!!!!!!!





Wut.

[bb_hood]

Only the first 500 limited edition consoles are 300$. After that the price is 350$...

[portnoyd]

http://crowdcharts.com/campaign/retro-vgs

Also needs to be mentioned that this expectation is steadily dropping. Was at $1.2m, now at $1.1m. These crowdfunding initiatives are front and back loaded. You burst onto the scene and use up all your, to be blunt, social media whoring and then at the end, the perception of "I'm going to miss it!" kicks in and there is some more. Day one of this and still at 2%. Very bad sign.

[megasdkirby]

Only the first 500 limited edition consoles are 300$. After that the price is 350$...

Damn, makes me want to get one right away! Only $50 more!

BARGAIN!

Thanks for the link...it literally blew my mind...

This thing is dead.

[Tanooki]

Wow kev there, now he's got a far better idea going there and look at all the systems for less money. Retro is almost surely doomed to failure.

[Kokonoe]

http://www.retrovgs.com/

If you haven't heard, our dear old SoCalMike, fresh off Kickstarting a magazine, decides he's qualified enough to make his own game console.

Wait, it gets better. It gets so much better.

Let's just do a checklist, in no particular order:

1. Was originally going to be funded on Kickstarter, but had to switch to Indiegogo because they do not have a working prototype. Total bullshit that Indiegogo is "courting" them, when Indiegogo couldn't give a shit. Just like how you had "conversations" with Konami and Capcom?

2. SoCalMike has begun deleting negative comments from the system's Facebook page because the blowback has been getting worse and worse.

3. The system will cost $300, $100 less than a PS4 or Xbone, or as much as a WiiU.

4. Two words: Cardboard PCB (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3316391)

5. Here's the current game selection, look out guys, Super Noah's Ark, courtesy of the nitwit at Pika Interactive! Games List (http://www.retrovgs.com/games.html)

6. Should be number one, but they are using the Jaguar die to make the system shells. Sure, let's get our system off the right start by using the shell of a total failure game console.

7. SoCalMike and his team do not have even have a board layout. An inside source has been cited as saying "Every time I talk to them, the design was 100% different".

If you can read all this and still confidently give SoCalMike your money for this system, then there is no hope for you.

The AA thread is also gold.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-48

Never heard of this until now, but I went ahead and checked it out and I don't agree with some of your statements.

1. I feel this part is rather irrelevant, yeah they may have wanted Kickstarter without a working prototype, but Kickstarter is the main source of revenue for these kind of projects these days. Having to go to indiegogo is similar to having to go to DailyMotion instead of Youtube, although not as bad.

2. I don't agree with deleting negative comments as it's not a good idea, but it's not exactly uncommon for a company to do this.

3. The price being 300 is something I can see an issue being, this price is an issue as it'll stop the console from having a mainstream appeal. It's hard to say why they are making it that price. Perhaps the hardware is expensive to produce for them? Or, they could be being cheapskates, but I'd wait to see someone open it up first.

4. Cardboard PCB is a demonstration.

5. Lack of games is a criticism I can understand, although I feel it's to be expected for a platform like this.

6. I thought of this too, using a shell of a failed game console probably isn't the best idea, but they could market it as something that'll redeem the design? I understand their choice, though. To save money.

7. This doesn't concern me, although I don't back things without a clear release date.

I will note I know nothing of SoCalMike or how he is and using my only impressions.

[SparTonberry]

I for one welcome a new era of cardboard-based video games. :D

[Tanooki]

I for one welcome a new era of cardboard-based video games. :D

You missed the revolution, kind of -- http://www.wowwee.com/en/products/paper-jamz >:]


To the post directly above yours. That's what I pointed out too, it's not real it's a demo board. The price is awful and I remember them talking about (into another point) that they saved a big pile of money by finding and buying the old injection molds for the jag and the jag carts which since they can do them themselves in house makes the shell itself very cheap for them to make. I have no issue with it. So what if the Jag failed. Let's be real, most people have no idea what the hell an Atari Jaguar is let alone probably never seen the actual hardware either. I think it was a smart move taking those molds. But also let's be realists and see what others are doing with far more advanced (assuming here) FPGA chips and other pieces of hardware in existing stuff, including what kevtris there made that supports far more than even the android box Retron 5 does. I think at $300 they're being cheap unless they have some very crappy and terrible part suppliers or some quirky unique part(s) they're using. If that's the case, they need to redesign or find someone less slimy to get cheap parts in bulk from. The lack of games is a given, they don't have hardware so it's kind of hard to promise something based on essentially somewhere between vaporware and a lie at this rate. No system = no solid kit which = no good way to develop anything at all.

As far as Mike removing bad posts, I don't like it, but considering the hell coming down on them at this rate for this debacle in progress I can hardly begrudge them it either as it makes it all the harder to find anyone who would and could commit some cash and resources to the thing and that's about the last thing they need right now.

[Gameguy]

That's what I pointed out too, it's not real it's a demo board.
I think the issue most people have is that there should be an actual functional prototype existing at this point, not just mock ups of what it could possibly look like.

Just imagine what Apple could have shown when introducing their latest Powerbook to the public. Would this have worked?

http://i61.tinypic.com/dfa72x.png

[celerystalker]

Can I preorder that? Not the Retro VGS; that sounds ridiculous. That powerbook looks fantastic and versatile.

[fluid_matrix]

I think the issue most people have is that there should be an actual functional prototype existing at this point, not just mock ups of what it could possibly look like.

Just imagine what Apple could have shown when introducing their latest Powerbook to the public. Would this have worked?

Honestly? For the Apple sheep? Yes, yes it would.

[SparTonberry]

Oh, I sort of remember reading about the P-p-powerbook scam.
Something about an ebay seller scamming (what they were sure was) a scam buyer.

[jperryss]

Oh, I sort of remember reading about the P-p-powerbook scam.
Something about an ebay seller scamming (what they were sure was) a scam buyer.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/p-p-p-powerbook

The original page is worth a read if you can find it.

[Tanooki]

Ahh that classic, I forgot about that one. Good overseas community job screwing that scammer. I'm sure the import dues on the PPPPowerbook was fun too. :D

[Kevincal]

Well if the thing ever is released it wont sell well and it will become incredibly rare in the future and worth big bucks probably. So buy one new when the price goes way down and then save it for 20 years and flip it for big bucks.

[Tanooki]

Perhaps rename it to the NA-Box. They can just ultimately do a numbered release and a select few people who are ok putting up that much initially can then barter it back and forward for an increasing amount of money based on condition from being new in box to mint but used and so on down the line. :)

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I'd like to support this, but it's very very bad timing for me. I'm back in school, lots of games are coming out this time of year that I want to buy, and.....$300 is a tough sell to play indie games I can already play on consoles I already own.

That being said, I trust Kennedy, and if this gets funded, I don't believe it'll be vaporware. If it was, the backlash against his other endevours would be immense and retro gamers would be eternally pissed off.

The challenge is getting it funded. Getting 2 million dollars is going to be difficult to say the least. Even the highly successful Ouya kickstarter lead by people with experience in the gaming industry only had a goal of nine hundred fifty thousand.

I don't there are enough people interested in this globally to collectively fund a a two million dollar project, even over the extended time period indiegogo provides over the 30 day period kickstarter uses.

Still, I'm going to support this because I like the concept.

How does indiegogo work? Is it like kickstarter where you're only billed if the project is successful?

Because I have a feeling this won't be successful if Kennedy's only going to do this if he reaches 2 million dollars. I feel like reaching even half of that would be amazingly impressive, as that would amount to more money than the extremely successful Ouya campaign, and people who backed Ouya were a lot of casuals. The VGS is targeted towards the hardcore retro gamer only, so it's very difficult to imagine a receptive audience even the same size, much less bigger.

[Mayhem]

How does indiegogo work? Is it like kickstarter where you're only billed if the project is successful?
On IndieGogo, you actually have a choice there. You can choose to only bill if you reach the total (like Kickstarter), or fund with all of the money actually pledged regardless of the amount. They've opted for the former here.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

So just to make sure --- if I pledge $300 for one of these and it turns out that it doesn't successfully reach the 2 million goal, I'm not billed at all?

[Gameguy]

The original page is worth a read if you can find it.
For those curious there's a PDF version of the page backed up with the internet archive. I'll post a link to it below. The original links and sites are all dead.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060214025445/http://chat.carleton.ca/~kfennell/thepowerbook.pdf

[Steven]

It's sad to see this trainwreck unfold, but can't say I'm shocked. I think pretty much everyone saw this coming. 1.9 million goal was insane, and at this point, it looks like they'll struggle to reach 100,000 much less 1.9 million.

Wondering how much longer before Mike pulls the plug and heads back to the drawing board. Can you imagine being in his shoes and how depressed he must feel after seeing the lack of support? But this can't be blamed on the fans or the "nay sayers." The project has changed so much and a lot of less-than-noble things have taken place to deter would-be and on-the-fence backers. It's a shame, really, how this whole thing has gone.

[celerystalker]

You know, what I really don't like about this project even more than the dubious business plan is that its library is essentially loaded with games readily available on other systems, many even in cartridge form. Even Tiny Knight started development as an SNES homebrew. GunLord is on Dreamcast or Neo Geo, as is Last Hope. Super Noah's Ark was a sloppy SNES game that I can't imagine being better here... Knight's Chance is on Neo Geo. Hell, for $300, just buy a modded Neo Geo AES, or even better, an MVS cab. Pier Solar was on Genesis, and is coming to Dreamcast if you want a physical copy... next thing you know, maybe wr can finally have a way to pay for Beats of Rage. No lawsuits there, right?

It's shameful to have such a high price without the promise of unique content instead of carts for games on other systems. They should be embarrassed to come to a collector's market that is conversant in game history and try to sell a system on its own merits instead of its unique offerings. These guys should look at each other honestly and discuss what it is they're really trying to achieve. If it's to say, "We did it!" it's the wrong thing. If it's to dupe the initial buyers in order for a quick cash out, it's the wrong thing. If it's to create a true alternative platform with any sort of sustainable future, they need to stop, find a handful of UNIQUE titles to show the promise of what could be, and put everything into building success around those experiences in order to have something to show to potential developers as a viable revenue stream. As is, there is zero future even with completion of the fundraiser, just a pop and a fizzle. This plan is even worse than buying the rights to just manufacture new Jaguars and homebrews. At least there's a healthier development scene there.

[Niku-Sama]

digging the card board pcb, way to keep it green.

I actually want a shell though, red with black lettering would be a cool replacement for the jag or a fun project

[Satoshi_Matrix]

You know, what I really don't like about this project even more than the dubious business plan is that its library is essentially loaded with games readily available on other systems, many even in cartridge form. Even Tiny Knight started development as an SNES homebrew. GunLord is on Dreamcast or Neo Geo, as is Last Hope. Super Noah's Ark was a sloppy SNES game that I can't imagine being better here... Knight's Chance is on Neo Geo. Hell, for $300, just buy a modded Neo Geo AES, or even better, an MVS cab. Pier Solar was on Genesis, and is coming to Dreamcast if you want a physical copy... next thing you know, maybe wr can finally have a way to pay for Beats of Rage. No lawsuits there, right?

It's shameful to have such a high price without the promise of unique content instead of carts for games on other systems. They should be embarrassed to come to a collector's market that is conversant in game history and try to sell a system on its own merits instead of its unique offerings. These guys should look at each other honestly and discuss what it is they're really trying to achieve. If it's to say, "We did it!" it's the wrong thing. If it's to dupe the initial buyers in order for a quick cash out, it's the wrong thing. If it's to create a true alternative platform with any sort of sustainable future, they need to stop, find a handful of UNIQUE titles to show the promise of what could be, and put everything into building success around those experiences in order to have something to show to potential developers as a viable revenue stream. As is, there is zero future even with completion of the fundraiser, just a pop and a fizzle. This plan is even worse than buying the rights to just manufacture new Jaguars and homebrews. At least there's a healthier development scene there.

Development of unique games that are worth a damn costs money. Generally speaking, the better and more complex the game, the more money required. This is why the Retro VGS isn't iniitally getting exclusives and why it isn't likely to see many in it's future unless it becomes a runaway success. In many ways, the Retro VGS faces the same challenges as the Ouya and just like the Ouya, the most it can hope for is to try to co-exist with much more popular options and get the same games they get. I happen to love the Ouya, but the point is as an indie developer you want to get the most exposure you can to build up your recognition and move up the latter in the industry. The best way to do that is to make your games available on as many platforms as you possibly can - steam, android/ios, Ouya, WiiU, PS4, Xbox 360, etc.

Therefore, what you are saying is invalid. You somehow want the VGS to magically come up with exclusives out of thin air that are worth a damn and THEN launch the fundraiser to gain support.

That's not realistic in the least because where is that money going to come from? Kennedy himself? He's already footing a huge bill for the design of the console itself. He's not a tycoon billionaire that can just throw money at a problem and create something new out of thin air.

That being said, I do agree that it sucks the VGS - if it actually does come to fruition - will mostly play games available on other consoles with very few actual exclusives. Kennedy is hoping that the novelty of getting those games on physical cartridges will be enough reason to choose the VGS versions over the digital-only versions found on the others, but I think for the vast majority of people, thats not even remotely a problem.

As a retro gamer, I do kind of long for the days when I could get physical copies of whatever game comes out, but at the same time, the price difference between a digital-only release and a cartridge one is so great that even if I could get physical versions of every digital-only game that comes out, I think the adoption rate would only be around 25% at the most. The Metal Slug-like PSN game on PS4 called Mercenary Kings is an excellent $15 digital-only game. Would it be a $50 worthy physical cartridge on the VGS? Mayyyyybe....but the point is that would be something I'd have to really think about. And assuming it was, what about the next game? and then the next? One of the side effects of digtial only games being so cheap is that I buy more of them. There are lots of games I'm willing to try for $10 as digital-only that I probably wouldn't give a chance if they were $50 cartridges.


For me personally, if I bought a Retro VGS, I'd only end up buying games for it that I was 100% sure of -- meaning, games I had already bought for other platforms...meaning that right off the bat the only reason to own a VGS would be to put the games on the shelf and look at them in that way, since if I actually wanted to play them, I could just fire up whatever mainstream console it is that already has that game.

I predict that the 2 million dollar fundraiser will fail, but I hope that doesn't mean the Retro VGS will die on the vine. Like I said before, I love my Ouya and I am okay with it not having many exclusives. In the same regard, I am okay with the Retro VGS also not having many exclusives. I want one to own a physical Shantae Pirate's Curse. Physical Megaman 9 and 10. Physical Steamworld Dig. All these games I already own. Is that silly? I guess so. Doesn't change how I feel though.

[Tanooki]

It's sad to see this trainwreck unfold, but can't say I'm shocked. I think pretty much everyone saw this coming. 1.9 million goal was insane, and at this point, it looks like they'll struggle to reach 100,000 much less 1.9 million.

Wondering how much longer before Mike pulls the plug and heads back to the drawing board. Can you imagine being in his shoes and how depressed he must feel after seeing the lack of support? But this can't be blamed on the fans or the "nay sayers." The project has changed so much and a lot of less-than-noble things have taken place to deter would-be and on-the-fence backers. It's a shame, really, how this whole thing has gone.

Yeah it is sad, but you know what I don't even think he's at the drawing board looking at that mess with the cardboard. He's more at the have the preschooler work with some macaroni and string stage of design.

[celerystalker]

Development of unique games that are worth a damn costs money. Generally speaking, the better and more complex the game, the more money required. This is why the Retro VGS isn't iniitally getting exclusives and why it isn't likely to see many in it's future unless it becomes a runaway success. In many ways, the Retro VGS faces the same challenges as the Ouya and just like the Ouya, the most it can hope for is to try to co-exist with much more popular options and get the same games they get. I happen to love the Ouya, but the point is as an indie developer you want to get the most exposure you can to build up your recognition and move up the latter in the industry. The best way to do that is to make your games available on as many platforms as you possibly can - steam, android/ios, Ouya, WiiU, PS4, Xbox 360, etc.

Therefore, what you are saying is invalid. You somehow want the VGS to magically come up with exclusives out of thin air that are worth a damn and THEN launch the fundraiser to gain support.

That's not realistic in the least because where is that money going to come from? Kennedy himself? He's already footing a huge bill for the design of the console itself. He's not a tycoon billionaire that can just throw money at a problem and create something new out of thin air.

That being said, I do agree that it sucks the VGS - if it actually does come to fruition - will mostly play games available on other consoles with very few actual exclusives. Kennedy is hoping that the novelty of getting those games on physical cartridges will be enough reason to choose the VGS versions over the digital-only versions found on the others, but I think for the vast majority of people, thats not even remotely a problem.

As a retro gamer, I do kind of long for the days when I could get physical copies of whatever game comes out, but at the same time, the price difference between a digital-only release and a cartridge one is so great that even if I could get physical versions of every digital-only game that comes out, I think the adoption rate would only be around 25% at the most. The Metal Slug-like PSN game on PS4 called Mercenary Kings is an excellent $15 digital-only game. Would it be a $50 worthy physical cartridge on the VGS? Mayyyyybe....but the point is that would be something I'd have to really think about. And assuming it was, what about the next game? and then the next? One of the side effects of digtial only games being so cheap is that I buy more of them. There are lots of games I'm willing to try for $10 as digital-only that I probably wouldn't give a chance if they were $50 cartridges.


For me personally, if I bought a Retro VGS, I'd only end up buying games for it that I was 100% sure of -- meaning, games I had already bought for other platforms...meaning that right off the bat the only reason to own a VGS would be to put the games on the shelf and look at them in that way, since if I actually wanted to play them, I could just fire up whatever mainstream console it is that already has that game.

I predict that the 2 million dollar fundraiser will fail, but I hope that doesn't mean the Retro VGS will die on the vine. Like I said before, I love my Ouya and I am okay with it not having many exclusives. In the same regard, I am okay with the Retro VGS also not having many exclusives. I want one to own a physical Shantae Pirate's Curse. Physical Megaman 9 and 10. Physical Steamworld Dig. All these games I already own. Is that silly? I guess so. Doesn't change how I feel though.

It's not an invalid statement to say that unique games are vital to any long-term success for this thing. An uphill battle? Sure. A huge financial commitment? Definitely. That doesn't make it any less important to giving a system that is already in the shell of another an identity. Companies like Super Fighter Team have gone the hard route to officially have the rights to games never published in the west, and Brandon Cobb is not a tycoon billionaire, and neither are the folks who developed a unique title like Pier Solar. Making a financial exclusive publishing arrangement for these kinds of products is not an impossibility, especially with their talk of being able to mimic other systems on the VGS hardware. Find an indie developer who wants to try something different. Negotiate for the rights to a cheap, dead IP that has a reputable translation patch, and include that translator in a profit sharing program as a short-term model.

It is not impossible, nor is it invalid. It's the challenge for an effort of this scale to succeed.

[Guntz]

I'm holding out for the RETRO CD to be announced.

http://i.imgur.com/hZQpZ8P.jpg

[portnoyd]

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/883655458370392

The first comment really nails it. I wonder if he'll even leave the campaign up for the full 45 days. It's as dead as GameGavel.

@Kokonoe: That's the thing - he has NOTHING in the way of a hardware design. The cardboard PCB was so bad because after months of prostrating that they were doing the funding drive, that was all they had to show for it? A cardboard design that was missing components?

[TonyTheTiger]

If this were a vanity project where they wanted to produce a few dozen units with four or five games and then put it out there to the community for whoever wanted to make games for it, if they wanted to make games for it, then I could have seen it working under that limited scope. But this sounds like they wanted to get it in stores, court major publishers, and be relatively mainstream, which is just bananas.

[gameofyou]

I actually think this is a really cool idea. I would love to see a system like Retro VGS succeed!

[Tanooki]

I think there are many here who would want it to, or at least did want it to.

The problem is all the scheming and manipulation with the cardboard mock up, dissolved kickstarter, other fairy dust, and the horribly overpriced fantasy they want for an MSRP both on it and the games if that upwards of $50 price tag is real.

I'd love to own one, at around no more than $100 and maybe $30 a game max. They're really offering nothing where it's at now but predestined failure.

[sfchakan]

Cardboard shenanigans? (http://gfycat.com/MiserlyOrnateArrowworm)

[Tanooki]

Sad thing is with your link, it's very likely more functional than whatever they've got built so far.

[portnoyd]

I cannot possibly keep up with the comedy goldmine that this is turning into. The AA thread linked in the OP catches just about everything that transpires, from the person who has a stake in GameGavel (omg so valuable) throwing SoCalMike under the bus to the negative dollar funding to the multitude of damage control attempts that happen on a daily basis.

[Tanooki]

I can't either, and it is a tragic comedy for sure. I'm glad that link to AA was supplied as I had no idea the layers of stupid stunts, bad decisions, and deceit were going on with it. My interest is shot unless there's a radical design change and price tier with a huge drop on it. I'd view this thing value wise around what a cartridge console clone (system on a chip no less) will get or like Ouya which I think was $100 wasn't it?

[Gatucaman]

Oh goodie!

More Fucking Hipster Posers co-opting and sterilizing the retro game culture even more, they arent satisfied by fucking up the retro game price for all eternity due to greed, exploitation and stupidity, now they are fucking the consoles as well, first the shill my stolen emus wife retron 5, then let's butchers actual NES and famicom boards with the NT that does even do up-scaling right, and now this.

FUCK THEM!

[Steven]

It gets worse and worse. It's gone from feeling sorry for those guys involved to now just questioning their ethics and true motives. It's gone from sad to downright embarrassing. Mismanagement and miscommunication from top to bottom has doomed this project. It's like they're sabotaging themselves purposely, almost. That's how bad it's become.

[PizzaKat]

Has anyone listened to the interview Gamester81 did with Mike?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmapDzXBA70

I've been watching Gamester since 2009 I believe and his channel is just shilling crap most of the time.

[kai123]

Has anyone listened to the interview Gamester81 did with Mike?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmapDzXBA70

I've been watching Gamester since 2009 I believe and his channel is just shilling crap most of the time.

I stopped watching Gamester after he had a video talking about how it isn't fun to really collect anymore due to price and then has a video with his friend that buys as many games as possible then puts them on ebay for more. It just annoyed me and then most of his videos as you say are him shilling all the time. Still seems cool but I have plenty of other options on youtube so it isn't a big deal.

[Atarileaf]

I stopped watching Gamester after he had a video talking about how it isn't fun to really collect anymore due to price and then has a video with his friend that buys as many games as possible then puts them on ebay for more. It just annoyed me and then most of his videos as you say are him shilling all the time. Still seems cool but I have plenty of other options on youtube so it isn't a big deal.

That friend is Joe from Atari2600.com who has almost completely ignored his online store to concentrate on ebay. So many people contact him about his site and they get no response or they place an order and get nothing and have to try to get their money back. Gamester seems to be aligning himself with some unpopular people right now.

[Tanooki]

Well if he's doing that odds are there's some form of compensation involved unless he's a total fool and doesn't think people will catch on to his soured rep and stop watching. That is pretty bad that one guy has a site and won't run it just to do ebay. Close it if it's that much of a problem.

[sfchakan]

I have the same opinion on Gamester81. It seems like most of his videos are shilling, either his new products or someone he knows. Very rarely does anything else make it to the channel.

[Tanooki]

Honestly, I thought that was the point of his channel. Isn't it?

I've watched maybe 5 videos of his and the reason they popped up was I was unsure about a product/game whatever it was and did a google-video search and he'd pop right up in the youtube offerings. I'd kind of fast forward though some of the mindless yapping and just get to what I was trying to find out for whatever I was looking up. I think that's all I've ever seen was product being covered, none of the shilling for friends, just product. If he's supposed to be some informed game reviewer or someone talking up the past, I've not see much evidence of intent the little I came across him. I figured companies thought he was a trust 'retro' gaming reviewer of products and companies just mailed him free junk to review and hope he'd be positive about it. I did it well over a decade ago a few times for stuff like the n64 adaptoid when it was still made and an earlier gameboy type flash kit. I got the item for free, and the supplier got an honest review and I did point out shortcomings and flaws around all the good.

[sfchakan]

Go back to his earlier videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/Gamester81/videos?flow=grid&sort=da&view=0) and it's just another guy talking about random retro games and hardware. He'd pull a random console off a shelf and do a video on it.

[Tanooki]

Well then I guess it's maybe just a clear case of someone who got enough subscribers he ended up making a nice side job out of it being paid in cash or with a nice constant flow of free stuff he'll turn around and talk up/review on his spot there as compensation. He's a paid shill.

[Graham Mitchell]

Met him at CGE a few years ago. Seemed like kind of a douche.

As for the RetroVGS, I'm not all caught up on the drama, but even without the BS I thought this thing was gonna go the way of the Ouya the second it was announced. I bet all these games will be on PSN anyway. And NG:DEV and their Amiga games aren't gonna help anything.

They need talent on the level of 80's-90's Capcom or Konami in their stables, and exclusive rights to the games. Otherwise, put a fork in 'er.

[JSoup]

Reposting from vbender, which reposted it from elsewhere:

Backing history:

Day 03 (09/21): 172 backers, $60041 raised
Day 04 (09/22): 186 backers, $66188 raised, +$6147
Day 05 (09/23): 187 backers, $65956 raised, -$232
Day 06 (09/24): 193 backers, $67580 raised, +$1624
Day 07 (09/25): 192 backers, $65970 raised, -$1610
Day 08 (09/26): 188 backers, $64920 raised, -$1050
Day 09 (09/27): 191 backers, $65145 raised, +$225
Day 10 (09/28): 192 backers, $63825 raised, -$1320

[Tanooki]

Hah wow a week and up 3800 and with all those losses. I've never seen such a response before to a kickstarter type panhandling thing like this but they really were asking for blow back. It seems each time something fresh and ugly hits the press you can watch the money promises get revoked. With that trending over a K a day loss, perhaps if people just kept finding more gems to have out there within a month they'll have nothing to show for it.

[nusilver]

From their Facebook page:

Hey Everyone! It’s clear, in its current state the RETRO VGS Indiegogo campaign is dead in the water and thusly will be shut down early. Once the Indiegogo team explains to us how we can do this, the plug will be pulled and all of you who have contributed will receive a refund post haste. Or you can go in and request a refund from Indiegogo right now.

The good news is we aren’t giving up and have made some adjustments to our hardware team, which includes the involvement of other hardware gurus who were part of our venture in the very beginning. We will also be lowering the price while maintaining most of the cool features you all want.

We will be back in the near future with a prototype RETRO VGS system, front-and-center playing our games on our cartridges and with our USB controller. Sit tight, be patient and RETRO VGS will return.

Thanks again for your support, patience and understanding while we regroup and prepare for the relaunch of a crowdfunding campaign on Kickstarter.

[Tanooki]

Hmm hopefully they actually listened and aren't just blowing smoke.

[Gentlegamer]

I've been following this project at Atari Age. My reaction:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpddaZB9bcI

[DreamTR]

This isn't a "new" idea as others have been done before but the following up was the issue at hand.

KevTris's old idea would be great; he just didn't realize people actually would purchase the thing.

The problem is for a console like this with not even a prototype it's easily 2 years out and then the issue of the games being released are pure waste. There is no way people will spend the amount of money on that system unless you've got the rights to something that would ONLY be on that system (Socks the Cat or something weirder) that people "possibly" may purchase.

It is so obscure that no one is going to care except for hardcore collectors. People keep giving money to people that keep starting these things, so in all honesty SoCal Mike is actually a pretty smart guy when his own money is not being utilized. Everyone is paying for his time and his work.


When the Generation NEX came out new games were to be developed and released for the Famicom part of the system. The company just didn't have enough fundage and the Generation NEX took so long to come out in the first place there were so many QC issues and at that point the decision was made to shut it down, but it had a lot of promise. That would have been a better option because of the Famicom games coming out in the US on store shelves (retro stores) and it already having built in wireless that could have been used for rumble in games and a built in library of almost 2,000 Famicom and NES games.

I have been out of the loop on a lot of stuff for awhile. Each time I dig back into it I see a lot of things that are funny to me:

Hipster NES kids
Hipster YouTube people that review games and don't even know that you can't use Zappers on LCDs
People that like "craft" beer, burgers, and arcades, but only go once in a blue moon to something that has all that
Angry garage salers that hate resellers only to resell themselves
People that ask stupid questions on Facebook groups about buys of possible retro and arcade stuff
People that post "finds" all the time and get mad if someone else calls them out and shows them up
People that use Kickstarter/indiegogo/gofundme for things like this and everyone keeps falling for it and others like it.

[Tanooki]

Nice seeing you, and yeah you pretty much caught up well with those last few lines of your post :D

It's a shame KevTris didn't realize it, as his costs were far less than this mess that just imploded. I kind of forgot about Generation NEX but that did have a lot of potential to do some good but they just couldn't sustain it as the damage was done, kind of like how Dreamcast was a great thing but Sega was already well beyond not dying.

[Berserker]

Had they come with anything that appeared remotely credible, with a more reasonable price and funding goal, people would've been all over it. But there was never any clear picture of what they wanted to do other than that of cartridge-shaped things being put into a console. It was like everything else was thought of on the spot to fill in the gaps.