Nov 3 - I got a Genesis, now about those games? (was the CDX was it worth it thread)

[Tanooki]

Thanks for the suggestion, well aware of Shining, but not a chance. I actually hate tactical/strategy RPGs. Aside from Ogre Battle (SNES which I have a guide for), Fire Emblem (3DS since it has help), Advance Wars 1 (which I had a guide too), Nectaris (tg16/pc) and I think that may be it I can't stand the format. The pathing/logic they put into it with the sketchy AI that can kind of do it's own thing outside of the rules as many do just makes me mad as it ends up being a huge time waster I can't progress in so I avoid them.

I noticed that about Shining in the Darkness after the fact. I'm going to give it a fair shot, but it was a $5 shot in the dark too as it looked interesting. At worst I can sell it and get my $5 back, not a deal breaker you know? I felt Phantasy Star2 was weaker than 1 as well, but maybe it's because the pacing was quite different. PS1 I felt like I was going somewhere while the sequel was so slow I felt stuck. The dungeons were boring, that's no feeling, they're just drab as hell and confusing to get around along with the overkill encounter frequency rate. It was an early example of throwing too much bloat at an RPG to fill time/space. Of the four I've messed with the first two a good bit, read up a lot on the others, and really I'm not sure if I'd put PS2 in 3rd or 4th place as the most problematic, sure it cemented the style of the series but the problem it has kind of also deserves some cement shoes.


I have my pile of Genesis games I got off racketboy coming in the mail today, also someone near by was selling EXILE which will show up too. I never got to play that on TG16 and now I will, always wanted to. The other lot of games has both the Illusion mickey titles, Castlevania, Zero Tolerance, MK1, and Ghouls n Ghosts -- can't wait to clean them up and have a crack at the things. I've only had Castlevania and GnG before so it'll be mostly fun and fresh (though I had Mk1 on SNES, this one will be bloody not sweaty.) :D

At this rate I'm slowing up, I got a good variety spread to play with, but I do want to snag Virtua Racing, not sure why as I don't like F1 stuff but I like that game.

[Az]

Thanks for the suggestion, well aware of Shining, but not a chance. I actually hate tactical/strategy RPGs.

I can count the number of RPG's I've played on one hand. I've got no love for them and even less for tactical or strategy games. That being said, I love Master of Monsters. The only thing I've ever played that I'd consider close to it was Nectaris, so if you like that I can see you digging MoM. The music is fantastic, nice art, and it's extremely, extremely easy to get into. It may sound strange for a guy that hates RTS or RPGs to recommended one but MoM is worth it IMO. It's simple enough that hardcore genre fans might be put off by it's simplicity or lack of "strategery" depth and consider it bare bones but that is the exact point I'm attracted to.

[Edmond Dantes]

Man, next January, if you have any Genesis RPGs you wanna part with, shoot me a PM.

Phantasy Star 2 and 3 are among the "used to own them but sold them and now I regret it" camp, especially as my copy of II included the hint book and everything... I'd be happy with a cart-only copy but ideally I'd want the entire package back. Also nowadays you can get repros with fan-retranslations of at least the first two games. I'm not sure what the point is... apparently the text was major simplified or something? I highly doubt this fixes the game's underlying problems but it might be interesting to look into.

[Tanooki]

Master of Monsters -- Looking it up I will do, maybe a youtube video or give it a round or two though that Fusion emulator. I liked Nectaris alright enough because it was just that, bare bones and the AI wasn't cheating or rigged where you had to follow some narrow peabrained path only to victory or you inevitably lose. If this one lacks all the overkill fluff and AI cheapness to be 'hard' and more so called strategy based it could be good.


I only actually ever owned Phantasy Star 2 with the smash pack PC release like 15-20 years ago and played as far as I did with it on my own as I had no hint book or guide to mess with. The story really got to me to keep going as long as I did but I will never get why people fall so in love with a game with so many design shortfalls and problems with the core mechanics and layouts in the game. The games just like how stuck up Square fans get their panties all twisted over have the same limited ROM space so you get a more interpretive and shortened translation to fit the allotted space given on the cart. If they were re-translated it was just for those who want to be all perfectionist about it and get this entitled feel of being robbed back in the day and want it right. It's not really experiencing anything new, just a different here and there interpretation of the text. Reading stuff like FF2 SNES then how they redid it with more space on FF4 Advance you still get the same plot but you get some differing words with similar/same intent and larger vocabulary since there's more room to fit it. I just don't get bent out of shape over something that petty. Now if it's just a blown to be broken in places translation like CV2 famously was on the NES, I can see doing a hacking fix on that.

[SparTonberry]

It's been so long since I have played but I recall FF2US actually did have some minor plots details cut to save space. I recall when you first meet speak to Kain at the beginning of the game, he had a lot more backstory to tell originally. Just one example.
Plus the translation was based more towards the beginners "Easy Type" so lots of items (mostly item versions of spells) and some abilities were cut, and 3 spells. The gameplay change was the bigger thing.
People were excited for the re-translation then, but looking back now the actual text (fan) "re-translation" reads more like an amateur ROM hack with unnecessary foul language and pop-culture references (the most famous edit being a William Shatner, but there was also one with some late '90s pop song I forget, and I somehow doubt that in the original Japanese text Rydia REALLY threatened to cut off Cecil's d*** if he didn't let her join the party for the attack of Zeromus' lair). I read the guy who ACTUALLY translated the text from Japanese does know his stuff but it was the teen ROM hackers on the project that littered his translations with "cool" alterations in the released work.
Tomato (of Mother 3 fan-translation fame) has been comparing FF4 the past couple years and it sounds like the PS1 version especially was somehow sadly littered with some of that crap too.

Chrono Trigger and FF6, are not known to have had significant alterations.
Even the translator of the FF6 fan-translation I read though has now become experienced in Japanese and said his own FF6 work was pretty crappy.

[Tanooki]

Seems all kinds of time period hit and miss. I know there were dummied items and some skills like the Wave skill of Cecils, that skill and the like I'd consider the only fair losses. The translation isn't awesome but it's by far not the worst either and it's definitely not SNK level engrish either. The point was usually these translations aren't that great and people get butt hurt over the company works and set out on some crusade to do it right and ultimately, perhaps it takes time after, you see it really wasn't all that good nor worth it. Removal of stuff like in FF2/4 is one thing, that sucks, but translation pick and choose is pretty lame.

[Edmond Dantes]

Nitpick, but I will never understand why people insist on using terms like "FF2US" to refer to Final Fantasy IV. It's an obsolete, needlessly confusing term--especially since both the real FF2 and the real FF4 have been re-released on many different platforms under their correct numberings, and I have literally seen people who thought they were the same game due to fans who insist on using terms like "FF2US." I simply see no reason to treat the SNES as if its the norm and all the re-translations as if they're the oddballs.

Anyway, back on topic.

I'm almost finished with the PSP version of Final Fantasy IV (after which I may tackle its two sequels, included on the PSP release) and I'm having the exact same sentiments as Tanooki. To be fair this translation gets across some nuances and subtleties that were lost in the SNES take--Edge's flirting came off as just weird "huh?" moments on the SNES, and the PSP makes it clear that Rydia is exasperated with his efforts--but in general, if you know the story one way, all that really changed was a choice of word here and there. Gameplay is another matter as the game is slightly more complex... slightly. That said I do like the PSP version for a number of little things, such as it actually having descriptions of weapons and armor including letting you know what benefits and effects they might have, such as absorbing magical attacks or whatever, whereas the SNES version you had to experiment and were never entirely sure. The PSP version really is the definitive version of the game if you ask me.

As for Phantasy Star II I actually played the retranslation once, and I remember the text seeming.... well, a little more dignified somehow, and also characters having completely different names (Rolf was called Eusis), but I never got far enough in either version to really appreciate any major differences. There's a re-translation of the first Phantasy Star too, which I'll need to check out. Supposedly the big change there is that Noah was actually a guy named Lutz in the Japanese version... which in my opinion means Sega's original localization might be better, because I kinda dislike the thought of Alis being the only girl in the group (though then again, is Myau a male or a female? Who knows?)

Incidentally I just learned that there's a Taiwanese pirate version of Phantasy Star IV... on the NES! Scroll to the bottom (http://www.pscave.com/dow/rom/fantranslated.shtml) Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a re-translation of Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom.

[Tanooki]

It's a valid nitpick, but the problem is I wasn't even thinking that. My problem is that ever since they released FF2 the famicom game on the US GBA it has been a source of confusion, just as it has been with FF3US vs the 3 on DS in Nintendo circles and a little earlier with the PS1 CDs.

Yeah that tweak to the later FF4 versions GBA and I think PS1 included did put +/- ratings on a row of all the players in your party and they'd do the victory dance if it was equippable and a worth adding. That's more of a time than a space thing as it's just a product of its age. FF1 does this, but 1+2 on GBA shows the perks as well. I totally understood that Edge was hitting on Rydia from the get go in the game, and I never found it creepy, she just seemed entirely disinterested and not weirded out by it on the SNES. I know they detailed it more to be a little weirded out in later releases but it was just a change that really didn't make a difference.


Crazy taiwanese and their later games back ported to the NES will never cease to amaze me. PStar4 that one is my list eventually for Genesis. I feel honestly 2 and 3 are just too crusty to keep my interest at this point, and 4 I think I might be able to sit through enough to validate the purchase.

I finally got the last of my Genesis games that were currently out in the mail today DUNE, but I can't mess with it now as the kid just woke up and wanted to use my tv for cartoons. :\ This keeps up I'll need a Nomad again as it was my primary system back in the days.

[MidnightRider]

I usually can't stand random battle games(that aren't in the Suikoden series), and I went through Phantasy Star IV twice in one month. I never feel like playing an RPG a second time around that soon.

[Tanooki]

You're tempting me dude. I can't do it either. The only game I came close to doing that with was Final Fantasy II on the SNES back int he day. I didn't re-run it immediately but within the year, and then yearly through the point of the N64 coming out, and every few years after that on it or later (PS1/GBA) releases. I just keep seeing people say PStar4 is where they really got it right to not feel clunky or have some problem to complain about that it feels like something the popular SNES RPG lot would have seen from Square or Enix.

[MidnightRider]

Well, That's how I took to it anyway. I couldn't tell you how you'll like it. I feel like they pulled off a certain scene much better than the most popular JRPG tried to. I also like that if you know how, weaker characters can contribute to battle by using specific weapons as items, while wearing shields, which boost their defense about as high as the other characters. Then there's the "MACRO" system, which allows you to program actions, outside of battle, so you don't have to select something for each character for every round(though boss battles will most likely still go that way). It's rare, but sometimes your characters will respond directly to an NPC, which helps the world feel a bit more lively, like the Grandia series. Plus they can communicate with each other, which helps you remember your current goal, if you haven't played in a while, or something.

It's not just an improvement over the rest of the series, it's ahead of it's time in a lot of ways, and like Chrono Trigger, it's a shame of lot of it's elements weren't/aren't used more often.

[kupomogli]

I'd recommend picking up Dark Wizard now that you can play Sega CD games. It has balancing issues the player can take advantage of making it a worse game than Brigandine, a game I deem as a spiritual successor, but's a good TRPG that is relatively cheap because most people don't know about it.

[celerystalker]

If you're talking Sega CD, there are a few more worth playing. Not all of these are worth the going rate, but just in case you stumble across them:

Robo Aleste (basically MUSHA II)
Android Assault
Keio Flying Squadron
Flink
Dungeon Explorer
Popful Mail
Lunar
Lunar 2
Sol Feace
Silpheed
SoulStar
Dark Wizard
Sonic CD
Snatcher
Rise of the Dragon
Lords of Thunder
Shining Force CD (it's essentially a special edition collection of the Game Gear games, and has a more brisk pace as a result)
Road Avenger
Time Gal
Revenge of the Ninja

[Tanooki]

I hope you're not talking to me about SCD as I said it was gone and after looking at the prices on anything even semi-decent I don't even want to bother and went with a non-protection chip launch Genesis instead.

[celerystalker]

That was what I thought, but then I read the post above about Dark Wizard and thought I'd missed something.

[Tanooki]

Just got lucky today as some stuff went up with an obo on ebay. Guy posted a few really decent games, some complete, some just nice carts. Ended up getting 1/3 off the value for both Truxton and Wings of Wor. Those two I anticipate will be fun but not easy in the least bit.


Hey I saw some info about it through google leading back here, but what's the deal exactly with the Tengen games and some of them randomly just imploding so the PCBs fail (but not the chips?) Is it all but like the Sega run Pit Fighter or what, and like what's the odds of getting a crap cart? I'm not saying I'm going to buy Grind Stormer unless some ROM time sells me on it, but I do like Gauntlet IV and both those Dragon's Fury/Revenge games are perfect for me but I fear them being blown. I can barely solder stuff as it is, like wires and battery replacements, but popping and swapping a chip I don't think I could make a solder ball small enough not to bridge a connection, and i also don't have the equipment or supplies to remove it cleanly in the first place.

[celerystalker]

Both of those are great, and Wings of Wor has that crazy Choaniki feel to it. Great pickups.

[Tanooki]

Thanks. I have been hitting hardcoregaming 101 heavily along with Sega-16 as a backup resource to learn about the games, not just straight reviews and I'm learning of things I think I'd enjoy so I went for them. You're right about the goofiness of WoW, it looks like up my alley to tolerate the abuse for the screwball value of the scenery I noticed in stills. The other I'm aware of with the arcade game of it and it being a fun title, saw it at a flea market 2 weeks back from this reseller who recently setup shop who asks the high pay ebay value even on beat up stuff (and his $45 truxton was ripped and scrapped up pretty bad.)

See my edit for my last post, I'm curious about those Tengen PCBs.

[celerystalker]

I've never experienced any issues with my Tengen games, including Grind Stormer. I don't know if there was a bad batch, but I've not encountered any personally.

With Genesis shooters, you'll do well with pretty much anything Toaplan. Truxton, Grind Stormer, Fire Shark... good stuff. If you haven't yet, I know a lot of people mentioned Phelios from Namco, which is a load of fun.

[Tanooki]

Fire Shark and Phelios are on that list I whipped up. The two I nabbed today were not officially but I wasn't blind to a good deal and $50 for the pair is good.

I am not entirely certain but I think as far as the more expensive stuff goes the higher end stuff I'd like now more or less tops out around $40 for a pretty looking quality cart. Stuff like Alisia Dragoon, both Splatterhouses, Phantasy Star IV. Crusader of Centy is on there, but only as an in the wild pipe dream as i'm not paying that on a game anymore than I would equally so for MUSHA. I didn't grow up sega so my mind is clear and not attached to fanboy sentiment so they're easily avoided.

[FieryReign]

Beyond Oasis is a cheaper alternative to Centy, if you're looking for a Zelda-alike. That game gets slept on. Could never get into Centy, it just felt off and confusing on where to go to next.

[Tanooki]

That's on my list too. I swear I've played it before, probably on that atgames handheld I had a few years back. I can't remember if it was default installed or I tossed it on there, probably should check the MK model I picked up. Yes that was the motivation a SOM/Zelda-esque type overhead adventure RPG style game.

[FieryReign]

It's crazy about the prices of Centy. Actually owned that game back around the millennium. Right when the prices were on the rise. The old collecting days when things like Turbozone Direct still had new old stock of games for reasonable prices. And before asshats on youtube ruined it. Paid 40 bucks, pretty expensive even back then.

So disappointing to finally get a game you've been wanting to play for years and it turns out you don't like it very much. Another reason I gave up collecting, hunting at flea markets and such. Just not worth it as you get older.

[Tanooki]

It's crazy about the prices of Centy. Actually owned that game back around the millennium. Right when the prices were on the rise. The old collecting days when things like Turbozone Direct still had new old stock of games for reasonable prices. And before asshats on youtube ruined it. Paid 40 bucks, pretty expensive even back then.

So disappointing to finally get a game you've been wanting to play for years and it turns out you don't like it very much. Another reason I gave up collecting, hunting at flea markets and such. Just not worth it as you get older.

Used to love that site, I got quite a few badass TG16/CD games off it from Ninja Spirit, Godzilla, Panic Bomber (J), Cotton, and quite a few others and as you said quite a bit of new things. $40 was a lot, but as I viewed it, it was new and TG16 was still alive somewhere in the world so paying actual period reasonable retail I was happy to given the lack of N64 games worth a crap and me bitterly wanting nothing to do with PS1.

I still collect and hunt, but as you said, it gets stupid as you get older, so I do it for a large selection of things and to get out with some exercise and fresh air away from the house since I've worked at home for 6 years now. If I can see fun stuff and enjoy it cool, if I get something I'd like for myself or if need be something I can sell yet again to get something I need or want, all the better, but it's not going to make or break that day either. If my wife wasn't with her condition and could work a 40 hour week and we had an actual savings account I'd probably still do it, just less regularly as I like the vintage/antique hunting but the games I'd ignore, and I'd go to more expensive stuff or weekend auctions and have the stuff in better shape come to me and not feel nauseous trying to justify a purchase over $20. So as it is stuff like this I do because it's all my shitty budget allows for anymore which is depressing. I can't get another 40hr job on a 2nd shift as I physically wouldn't last long sleeping all the rest and never being around for the kid and my own interests too so I'm stuck.

[Edmond Dantes]

Man, I wouldn't mind owning Centy.... if anyone wants to sell me one at a discount in January (maybe in December?)...

I never had a problem knowing where to go next. Actually not even sure how that's possible in a game with an overworld map that only lets you visit key points. But hey, if you don't like the game.... ;)

[Tanooki]

Centy isn't off my list, but price wise it can suck it. I'm actually waiting on a few things Genesis shooter fans get tinglies over it. I did a dual OBO deal and got both Wings of Wor and Truxton both for $10 off their going rates which are consistent, and then I also have a potentially(likely) bad PCB copy of Grind Stormer in the mail now as well I got cheap. I'm hoping that one isn't dead, but if it is I'm going to need to try and repair it myself or find someone who can do it for me as I'd like to play it.