New Zelda bonus disc coming for GameCube!!!

[zmeston]

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[Jorpho]

(Egads, this thread is still going!)

Do you think Nintendo really would leave the NES Zelda games untouched? They could probably use the same emulation system that let them put all those games into Animal Crossing. (Speaking of which, has it ever been confirmed that Zelda is available in AC?)

Then again, Nintendo did have that remake on the Bandai Satellaview which had 16-bit graphics. But would they bother giving The Adventures of Link the same treatment? It is surprising that they don't simply try to bury that one further.
________
Anal Fucking (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/88/fucking/videos/1)

[Mayhem]

Not your DVD compatibility comment, but the out-of-nowhere "the PS2 has mediocre DVD playback!" (which depends on what you mean by "mediocre" -- the video quality?) comment. Unless you meant the Xbox as well?

Compared to a dedicated player, yes the PS2 and Xbox DVD playback is mediocre. I've seen it with own eyes...

[sisko]

I thought the same thing, but it's really not; a single charge via that groovy adapter lasts for all but the most epic of trips, and the built-in battery keeps the SP wonderfully light and streamlined. Also, the battery has a long enough overall life that, unless you're playing the SP for absurd amounts of time each day (in which case, stop traveling so much!), you won't kill it for many years, by which time Nintendo will have presumably shipped its next (last?) portable.

The gripes about no headphone jack are slightly more warranted, although I often play portable systems with no sound at all, accompanied instead by the car stereo. (I use noise-cancelling 'phones on airplanes, but I very rarely fly anymore.)

-- Z.

True the lack of a headphone jack is annoying...but I can live without that, and if I really wanted it, I could buy the stupid adapter to compensate.

But the battery....I want to go to Japan and the battery won't hold up the whole trip! Plus if I go on a really long car trip (and I do) and the battery dies, it kinda bites!

Also what do you do when the Li-ion (I'm pretty sure its Li-ion battery anyway) battery dies? Just because it is rechargeable doesn't mean it lasts forever! I've never taken one apart so I don't know how feasible it is to replace.

[zmeston]

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[zmeston]

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[hezeuschrist]

My main gripe with the PS2 DVD playback (dunno about Xbox) is not the video quality, rather the ONE SPEED of fast forward. Really annoying.

[badinsults]

Interesting... it will be awesome when I eventually get a gamecube and get these great games (probably won't happen until I get my undergraduate degree). In all likelyhood, the version of The Legend Of Zelda will be the SFC remake that was made for the Satellaview.

[SoulBlazer]

I'm glad we've been able to have these debates without things getting personal -- or TOO personal. :D

Zach, I wish I had more solid 'proof' for you, but just today I was talking to a long time friend of mine who said that her PS2 played DVD's in much lower quality then a normal DVD player (a Sony, as a matter of fact). She tested the quality and preformance on both of them with about a dozen DVD movies, and found the visual sharpness to be lower and the load time to be slower on the PS2. So the PS2 does'nt have as good a DVD player as Sony could put in there. (not to mention her DVD player was only $100).

Frankly, I hope Nintnedo does'nt get out of the gaming hardware business for another reason -- that would bring Sony close to a monoply on the market (I know some of you say Sony allready has one, I mean MORE then right now). Having only one company control 95 percent of the market again like Nintendo did back in the late 80's would be bad. VERY bad. For everyone concerned.

Since we've mostly bashed Sony and Nintendo to death, what do people think about Microsoft's aproach and their long term chances? I think MS is doing okay and the right thing. They started slowly, carefully studied the market, and have targeted games to a small but popular group of gamers. I think MS is content to learn from the XBox experience and make their next console better. They are willing to spend money, as long as they need to, to get better in the video game market. There's no real game out right now that would convience me to buy a XBox (some I am interested in are being ported to PC) but that does'nt mean I would'nt ever buy a XBox.

Gamers and consumers alike should hope three companies keep making gaming consoles. It's for the best for everyone.

[zmeston]

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[Duncan]

(Speaking of which, has it ever been confirmed that Zelda is available in AC?)

Yes, it is there. And it is glorious. :)

Supposedly, there's some calendar-and-achievement-related event that gives you the game as a present. It's also supposed to be an incredibly rare occurrence, which is why no one really knows how to get it.

Or, if you're dirty and dishonest like me, you can just buy an Action Replay cheater system (only $29.99 at most stores) and have Zelda "mysteriously" sent to your house along with Super Mario Bros. and Punch-Out.

Funny thing is, after I unlocked Zelda, I took a day or two to beat it again -- and I haven't really played Animal Crossing since. Odd, huh?

Duncan :D

[Anonymous]

Just as an aside, the GBA SP battery has no 'memory' (no worries about not charging properly), is good for 300 charges (that's 3 years of non stop playing-charging-playing-charging; and 300 charges is when it starts to lose efficiency, not die altogether), and extras/replacements can be purchased through Nintendo for 15.00US/22.00CDN.

[SoulBlazer]

Cool, so Zelda IS in AC after all! Maybe when I go out today to get Homeworld 2 for the PC (LOVE the first game!) I'll pick up a Action Reply and get that. 8-)

I know people have allready found Punch Out, but what other games are in there?

Animal Crossing is yet another example of one of the wonderfull games that are available for the GC but people won't seem to buy a console to play it. What is it going to take for Nintendo to boost sales? They allready lowered the price, put together a nice bundle deal (either a game or the GBP), have a dozen or so 'must have' games, the best controller a console has ever had (IMHO) and a very good wireless one, are pushing the idea of linking your GBA to the GC for bonuses, something Atari played around with for the Jaquar and Lynx....no wonder Nintendo is upset. What the hell do they need to do?

Well, we don't really know what the future holds. Maybe the market can't support three consoles, only two. I've always thought it could. But perhaps not any more.

Finally, I suspect based on my own personal experience (my DVD crapped out in my PS2 after a year and had to send it to Sony for repairs) and from what I have heard that the PS2 DOES have a higher failue rate then either the GC or XBox. Not a high one -- I'd say around 10-15 percent, which is a lot due to just how many are floating around out there. It's either a more complicated system on the inside then we realize (never seen the inside of one) or Sony did'nt use the highest grade parts on the system like Nintendo did on theirs. Or perhaps both. I just know I did'nt use my PS2 THAT much (I said I played my GC more) and I never had to send a console in for repairs before, in my 20 years of game playing. :/

[zmeston]

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[sisko]

Just as an aside, the GBA SP battery has no 'memory' (no worries about not charging properly), is good for 300 charges (that's 3 years of non stop playing-charging-playing-charging; and 300 charges is when it starts to lose efficiency, not die altogether), and extras/replacements can be purchased through Nintendo for 15.00US/22.00CDN.

I would wager I play my GBA for more than 100 hours per year :D

Seriously though, thats great information. Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I won't wait so long to buy one now.

[SoulBlazer]

Sorry, Zach. I just now realized I posted the wrong figures -- I ment to say 1 to 1.5 percent, which would be about 500,000 to 750,000 units. Still higher then I suspect either the GC or the XBox, but not as bad as it could be with so many units.

[Duncan]

Cool, so Zelda IS in AC after all! Maybe when I go out today to get Homeworld 2 for the PC (LOVE the first game!) I'll pick up a Action Reply and get that. 8-)

I know people have allready found Punch Out, but what other games are in there?

I actually set up the lower room of my AC house as an NES arcade! :)

I know of all the following: Super Mario Bros., Legend of Zelda, Excitebike, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. Math, Balloon Fight, Clu Clu Land, Golf, Baseball, Tennis, Wario's Woods, Ice Climber, Punch-Out!!...and that's all I can think of. I think there's a couple of games I don't have, though.

Duncan :D

[Anonymous]

No prob sisko, but note that it is 300 charges, not hours. 300 charges equals 3000 hours w/light or 5400 hours. That would mean if you woke up and played your SP until you fell asleep everyday, it would take a year for it to begin to dimninish.

[hydr0x]

"In an Interview with the japanese Business-Magazin 'The Nihon Keizai Shimbun' Sonys Chief Financial Officer Takao Yuhara said (and this is a quote): 'As planned, we expect that our investment in the PS2 will be (sorry i just don't know the english word for this, he means the break-even) in the mid of 2004' "

Hmmm. I'll look this up. Thanks for the info! This contradicts what I've read elsewhere. For example, in press conferences related to Sony's 2000 and 2001 investor stock reports, Sony openly discussed how the PS2 makes (a lot of) money on each unit sold. Also, I've read that initial R&D investments on the PS2 were about $2 billion, which I surely would've thought Sony, with 60 million PS2s sold in, had made back by now. My research continues...


They do have to make $33 per ps2 to achieve this, WITHOUT any returned ps2 and other costs, but they do not even make these $33




oh, and to your fanboy comment, just because i think dvd compatibility will not be a point in 2005 makes me a fanboy of some brand/console?? that's an interesting connection...

Not your DVD compatibility comment, but the out-of-nowhere "the PS2 has mediocre DVD playback!" (which depends on what you mean by "mediocre" -- the video quality?) comment. Unless you meant the Xbox as well?

-- Z.

i meant the xbox as well, and you've got to be honest, i bought a 5.1 system + dvd player over a year ago for under $200 and it was and is clearly superior to the xbox/ps2 dvd player, this does not mean the consoles suck for dvd playback (picture quality is not as good as many other players, but it's still ok/good), but it's absolutely no reason to buy them ;)

oh and you asked if some site actually compared the quality, yes there are sites/mags, i'm searching for a really interesting (german) review i once read right now....

found it, it's german though:

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/ps2xboxgamecube.shtml
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/xbox.shtml
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/testplaystation21.shtml

[zmeston]

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[Ed Oscuro]

Then again, Nintendo did have that remake on the Bandai Satellaview which had 16-bit graphics. But would they bother giving The Adventures of Link the same treatment? It is surprising that they don't simply try to bury that one further.

At the very first screen (before the title) you see "Additional code written by Roto." I can't say for sure, but it's possible that much of the work on that was done by an outside developer. That's just a hunch, though.

[NvrMore]

Whew... you've won this debate (which I'm enjoying!) by sheer amount of text alone. But I'll try to wade through it and salvage my dignity.

Yeah.. fair point. Sorry about that but I just don't have enough time to post frequently so I have to make bulk responses to even things out.. :P


Without trying to drag individual specific critisism into the focus, but the point is the majority of the time your "facts and figures" are either conveniently one sided while turning a blind eye to other equally relevant "facts and figures" or your arguments are decidedly clouded by personal opinion and bias.


I don't see how I can put a "one-sided" spin on one-sided facts and figures.

C'mon, you're a journalist aren't you, you should know as well as anyone that any facts/figures can be presented in a manner that is beneficial to an argumentative point so long as they are presented in an appropriate context and with disregard to other facts/figures or context which is indicative to the contrary.

For example.. Sony's game division is heading towards bankrupsy because their games system has sold very high numbers in it's initail years of release and as such the losses which they made on each unit have reached a horrendous level.

Now, there's more than enough figures to show Sony sold a lot of PS2's and there's statements by Sony and financial analysts which show that Sony was making a loss on it's hardware, thus by ignoring other factors such as software licencing and sales revenue and posting the data in a negative context we can make the high sales of the PS2 look like a terrible thing.


I'm not "pimping" for the PSP, just pointing out what I consider to be the many factors which will make it a success.

Stepping aside from the PSP specific argument for a moment, my general point regarding your jaunt into the PSP hype was simply that you do indeed show considerable favour towards Sony, so much so that the sceptisism that you claim to hold up against anything that hasn't been proven goes straight out the window with respect to Sony and their products.

The example being that, in this case, with regard to the PSP you show unwavering faith in Sony's claims and what at the moment ammounts to little more than their PR, desite the clear and noteworthy factors to the contrary. Yet you are in fact excessivly critical of other companies or opposing factors for the very reason of holding a supposed healthy sceptisism.

Now holding a healthy critisism would lead to taking note of the point that unproven hardware specs and predicted figures for any unveiled piece of hardware inevitably exceed the real capabilities of the final product and as such cannot be taken at face value. Taking for example the PS2, in it's initail specs it was announced that it would be capable of 75 million polys per second, unlimited streaming texture potential and 48 gigs of memory bandwidth. Those specs were gradually reduced to 60 million polys before it was finally admitted that those stats were pak performance figures for flat-shaded, identically shaped polys and in truth due to the design it's actually only capable of around 12 million polys with the avaerage usually being half that (due to the small pipeline to the main memory).

Likewise (not to be focussed entirely on Sony) the same misguiding "poly monster" routine of basing stats on a pla shaded simply test sample was used for the Xbox to produce it's 100 million figure.

All of the major manufacturers (Sony, Nintendo, MS) overstate the capabilites of their promised hardware, yet, getting back to the original point, you show unwavering faith in Sony's "word" (aka PR) while throwing out that supposed healthy sceptisism at anything else.

for exaple, take the following..


In the portable field, the PSP really IS a "gaming tech miracle." I can't wait to play it.

..there it is, the unit hasn't even produced a prototype yet and all that currently exists is little more than Sony's PR yet you're willing to go with the label "gaming tech miracle". That's nothing but sheer blind bias, there's no healthy sceptisism, no consideration for all the factors which play into or contradict the hype, just fan attitude.


You win this point (Nintendo is in healthy financial condition) simply because I couldn't make it through that run-on paragraph.

ooh, bitchy LOL

Breaking down how Nintendo has statistically maintained market share (in short). Basically, to the endo of the PS/N64 lifecycle Sony held the bulk of the gaming market, versus only one competitor, having initially gained a year's head start and the market hype.
Into the new generation and we have 3 very serious competitors, Sony begins with a whopping head start in both time and market share. The new competitor is a financial giant who is willing to take excessive and extreme financial losses in order to hold place in the market, most notably taking a huge loss on hardware by selling it well below a profitable tag and also giving away numerous free games as well as running a online service at a massive loss.
So, with all this, Nintendo still manage to hold a #2 position worldwide and in terms of hardware alone are maintaining their sales with their past performance (mildy above actually) and all the wile they are continuing to post a profit on their hardware.


I'm sticking by my theory that sheer numbers of PS2s = a false perception of a higher defect rate..

Well, I see other topics have since surfaced to address this issue so rather than dragging it out in this topic I'll leave it to the dedicated topic(s).

[Topic related] Woo.. zelda! [/Topic related]

[hydr0x]

@NvrMore: VERY good post, you said anything i wanted to say and couldn't because of my lack of knowledge of english words ;)

zmeston you are measuring with two different (whatever the word is :p) the whole time, and you've got to accept that you seem to prefer sony no matter if there is a reasonable reason for this or not. i don't know you, so i can't say if u really do prefer Sony, BUT i can say for sure that everyone gets this picture of you, so you might think about this a bit longer ;)

[Predatorxs]

FIRST OFF!! A Zelda!! GC generations (slaaaaaash!!) / Collection would be great!! It would introduce a ton of Nintendo fans too the pleasures! of zelda!!

I have to throw this in, I have watched and read this thread go-on-on with some very genuine reasons / opinons / arguments and facts! and have found it very interesting.. (Especially the Pro Nintendo)

Some of you Journo's need to wear your gaming hat alittle more often, I can see your points! and the way you're thinking... But please if zmeston is not the greatest Copy and past King on DP (for this thread alone) then i don't know who is...

DVD compatible!! is not a huge factor! and has no bearing in the over all console based!! competition! after zmeston talking about it so much, near the end of this (crazy long) thread he starts talking about doing his own dvd PS2 test as he didn't really know the DVD output is crap compared to a good / high spec home DVD player.......Fanboy!! Oohhh yes you are!!!

Eidos has not completly dropped GC there working on a Game-by-Game system with Nintendo!!

Rare wasn't dropped by Nintendo!! RARE had been looking for nintendo to increase it's stock in the company (since 96!)! mainly to secure rare as a company / publisher (rare had hoped nintendo would buy rare lock stock and barrel, but No! :( i was not a happy bunny when rare left for MS, i had just finished Starfox ADV and was hoping for more!!!! DAmmmmmmmmm you Bill gates!! :evil: )

Someone also mentioned in japan!! that people first bought! a PS2 for it's DVD and not really for it's games?!?!, that is crazy!! talk!. who ever said that needs to hit the edit button right quick!!

The PSP blurb!! from zmeston, why!!! This (PSP) is complete Vapour ware!!
why bring it up! there is a chance it may never show UP!?!? As if nintendo might start! Too worry!!

Here are a few things to take into consideration the GameCube 2 started life in the first 9 months of the Gamecube (1) development, there in full swing to! have a second crack at Sony!! Don't be surprised! to here Nintendo launch the New GC2 at the same time as the ps3..

The Gamecube is technically a better system than the PS2, the only thing that Has the GC in 2nd place, The playstation had too much time to get a foothold..

After Firing fact after Sony PR--Stuffed fact!! at us, I don't think I'll ever read another post I see zmeston has written EVER again!!

Through all your posts and mis-contrived almost robot like ways i can only imagine you trawl video game sites for news and opinions, acting like your name will become our very own paragon of virtue!! :hmm: Right here in DP!

So please-please, wear your Gaming Hat 24/7 and throw away that ugly-smelly-unsightly-over-bearing-journalist-ick Hat!! :hmm:

Also on a small note please post a full list of articles / papers and columns, you have written I will gladly avoid at all costs!! thank you!! -_-

I'm sure you're not a bad guy by any means but please, slow down and think before you start again!! Just be yourself!! Your comments and turn of phrase sound fake!! And wanting!!

i NOW crown!! zmeston as the CAP King (Copy and paste!! King)

Sorry!! People for this long-winded post, I shouldn't have, but I can't not say anything!!! Sorry admins as well!! We must make your life hell in here.. @_@

[zmeston]

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[Anonymous]

But they're a very, VERY distant #2, and the GC side pisses away money as fast as the GBA side can make it. This is not healthy in the short or the long term.

-- Z.
That's an interesting fact that I hadn't heard or noticed in any of Nintendo's Financial reports. Can you point me to the website or publication you got this fact from?

[zmeston]

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[zmeston]

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[Anonymous]

True, but I've yet to see one that says the Gamecube is losing as much money as the Game Boy Advance is making. According to the figures on Nintendo's own Annual Report, The Gamecube has not only been profitable, but that Nintendo has never posted a profitbale quarter. Can you point out the specific source that stated that the Gamecube is losing AS much money as the GBA is making? Or even one that says the Gamecube is costing Nintendo money?

[scooterb23]

I still want a copy or two of the first Zelda bonus disc that came out before Wind Waker.

I don't really like the Zelda games...I just want it, plus one of my friends is buying a GC soon, and wants it :)

That is all, continue battle...

[jonjandran]

I still want a copy or two of the first Zelda bonus disc that came out before Wind Waker.

I don't really like the Zelda games...I just want it, plus one of my friends is buying a GC soon, and wants it :)

That is all, continue battle...

I have a sealed one. Interested ?

[hydr0x]

In fact, my sources (yes, I have sources -- one of the benefits of being a "videogame journalist") tell me that the PSP will be much closer to a PS2 in performance than a PS1, whereas Sony was previously saying it would land somewhere in between.

sorry but you are getting ridiculous man, you just CAN'T know if it's more ps1 or ps2 like, no matter what u think your sources might know and how good they are (in your dreams.....)


But I know more than just the PR; I speak with developers, producers, etc. Again, the benefits of "videogame journalism." I spend a lot of time crawling through PR bullshit, not choking it down or regurgitating it. (Well, okay, sometimes the latter, if I'm writing a preview puff-piece, but that's a different topic.)

you don't know a shit more than PR, you only think so, developers and producers are the ones WHO MAKE PR!!!!! you already proofed you how critic you are about pr "news" when talking about the psp (<<watch out! irony!!)


But they're a very, VERY distant #2, and the GC side pisses away money as fast as the GBA side can make it. This is not healthy in the short or the long term.

this, my friend, is the worst thing you posted here for a while, your lying here, you've got NO sources for this, you just don't have them and you claim nintendo is losing money on the gc. Oh boy, even MS doesn't lose as much money with the xbox as nintendo does make with the GBA

[Duncan]

But they're a very, VERY distant #2, and the GC side pisses away money as fast as the GBA side can make it. This is not healthy in the short or the long term.

this, my friend, is the worst thing you posted here for a while, your lying here, you've got NO sources for this, you just don't have them and you claim nintendo is losing money on the gc. Oh boy, even MS doesn't lose as much money with the xbox as nintendo does make with the GBA

@ zmeston:

Gotta agree with Hydr0x here. Maybe it's just one person's perception, but it seems like the Cube and the Xbox are fairly even sales-wise, with Microsoft perhaps having a slight edge (mainly due to a stronger quantity of available games, if not actual quality).

And to be honest, I have no problem acknowledging that the GB Advance is basically carrying Nintendo at the moment. But that having been said, what is Microsoft's video game division doing to prop up their numbers -- other than filling out Mr. Gates' blank checks, that is? And do you really expect Sony to completely take over the kid-driven handheld market with a complex machine that -- at last count -- was expected to cost around $200? Please explain how this is going to happen. (Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the GBA get some real competition -- it improves the breed, after all.)

I will agree with you, however, that the simple act of being first was not what put Sony on top. If that were true, we'd all be arguing over Sega's plans for Dreamcast 2 instead and wondering how Sony could ever catch up. :roll:

Duncan :D

[Predatorxs]

First off zmeston LOL i'm 26!! <-----there they are again, i only use these in XS when i read post after post of of trash!! and PR Fanboy's getting all hot and sweaty over Vapour ware if only you see, the contradictions you make post after post. :/

The worst thing is we have all fallen for your replies and posted more, back dooohhhh!! sucked in again.

14 years as a videogame journalist? well sounds like 14 mins and everybody only gets.....15 (So shhhhh!!)

My (copy and paste) comment was directed at your PR blurbs! as if your right in the hart of the gaming industry, when really it's on a news site or out of a mag you read cover to cover in a few hours to gain more (valuble, well! too you) News.

You need to lose the whole "videogame journalist" thing, also when others make mention of facts or info they have found / viewed online you ask for the source (link) i can only assume i was correct, regarding you trawling the net, and taking official PR (Sony Only) as money in the bank! (Your WRONG!)

Infact do you own either an XBOX or a GameCube!?! (honesty is always the best policy! ;) )

Also how can you quote this happened in japan that happened in japan? when you weren't even there, and who says the people that write this stuff (that you take for money in the bank?) are not biased, in anyway shape or form.

They could be like you but there REAL journalists (Not very good ones, you get cowboys in every job sector!) and get paid for it.

This will be my final post, like so many have mentioned this has completly gone off topic. (unless i see more crazy talk LOL )

Also Starfox! Adv is a Great! game, it's not mis-guided loyalty it's a sweet game.. i'm sure there are many, many GC owners will say the same!

Eidos have not completely dropped the GC, in time you will see this very fact somewhere!

(PROBABLY at monday 04:03AM at www.Vapour-Ware.com/suckers/read/this.html) (then you will believe it, shame really)

Nintendo will never sell the rights to Mario and other classic Nintendo names to ppl like MS or Sony!! that will is the day i contemplate putting down my game pad :hmm: (which is never!!) :D

By all, it was interesting thou!! <------Ooooops.

[hydr0x]

i get the feeling zmeston died :p

[Anonymous]

Well a lot of people did make a bunch of personal attacks on the guy.

[Kid Fenris]

i get the feeling zmeston died :p

I hope not. He's one of my favorite posters here. Perhaps he suffered a seizure after reading one of Predatorxs's replies. Death by exclamation point.

Anyway, I think that the largely unwarranted attacks on zmeston have occluded the important point in this thread: Nintendo is facing its most serious competition since it entered the gaming business. Never before has the company found itself so close to third place in America, and, as the Saturn and TurboGrafx could tell you, the position isn't an enviable one. Even when they went up against the Genesis and PlayStation, Nintendo had the handheld market as their own, but the PSP, hype aside, represents a very viable threat to the GameBoy's dominance. The company may enjoy a loss-free financial state, yet one must wonder how long that will endure if the GameBoy empire loses territory.

As for the Zelda deal, it's a nice pack-in. However, I can't help but think of the TurboDuo, which came bundled with a half-dozen games (a fact that Johnny Turbo never tried to exploit) and thus left new Duo owners with little reason to go out and buy anything else for the next five months or so. Perhaps those who grab GameCubes for the Zelda collection will spend so much time exploring the nostalgic terrains of Hyrules past that they won't be very quick to pick up any other titles.

Fluke, I bet you're looking forward to an increase in callers asking "What the HELL is up with that Grumble Grumble thing?"

[Anonymous]

These kids today. No sense of adventure, them. Always wanting daddy to hold their hand! In my day, nothing made any sense and we liked it! Damn kids should ENJOY burning every freaking bush from here to Death Mountain.

*Grumble Grumble*

[Duncan Macleod 2003]

What I want to know is, will Ocarina of Time have GCN graphics?

[Ed Oscuro]

Now right now I'll wave this disclaimer -- I've never played the original demo disk -- but I think what I've learned about it is enough to answer your question.

For whatever reasons (no encryption?) the Master Sword bonus game disk has a N64 emulator and a European ROM (or was it just PAL?) that will play on your GameCube. Thus I'd expect the graphics and everything else to have exactly the same amount of detail.

What likely changed is what happens when you run it through that emulator. It's a given that the lines will be sharper, and maybe they have some sort of filter running on frames as well. It probably looks a lot better than you might think, especially after you consider what some good N64 emu graphics plugins will do for a game (i.e. half a year ago I saw one set of plugins that made Majora's Mask look pretty sweet).

[Predatorxs]

Ahhh... Death by exclamation i can imagine zmeston wading through a ton of it right now, lost in exclamation hell..

That'll teach him :roll:

[NvrMore]

I usually refer to myself as a "videogame journalist," in quotes. When I wrote for trade magazines, THAT was genuine journalism. Writing reviews and previews is... it's different.

It wasn't meant to be an attack on your profession, rather it was merely a point that given your profession you should be well versed in the manipulation of facts and figures in order to produce a desired argumentative point irrespective of the original context/meaning and factors surrounding said facts and figures.


Actually, as I mentioned in another thread, Sony MAKES money on each PS2 sold, as stated by themselves in press conferences (which were, for a time, available as audiofiles on Sony's website) with shareholders. In other words, not even the crafiest journalist could put a negative spin on 60 million PS2s sold through.

As I stated in my example, Sony was indeed taking a loss on their hardware production in particular because of the two main processors in the system, the EE and the GPU which were both notably large (the EE was larger than a P3) and expensive to manufacture, in fact combined the two chips together were large enough to give even the best Semiconductor manufacturers a headache.

As a result the chips not only proved undesirably expensive to manufacture, but also knocked Sony's PS2 production back (despite Sony's $1bn investment into manufacturing the chips) which was in turn partly responsible for Sony's initail failure to suppy enough units to territories for the given release dates.

Chip and hardware manufacturing costs taken into account the PS2's estimated up-front production cost was estimated between $430 - $488, thus because the PS2 had to be released at a reasonably competative price tag of $299 (slightly higher in Japan) Sony inevitable had to take a loss on the Unit untill manufacturing processes could improve significantly enough to reduce the overall cost of manufacturing through more efficient hardware design.. a notable example of which would have been around mid 2002 when Sony was finally able to combine the EE and GPU onto a single chip, thereby reducing production costs (initailly by around 11%).

Thus in turn, the example I gave of the manipulation of facts and figures does hold true (in that it's a true representation of said manipulation.. not that the statement it made was actually true :P )


In fact, my sources (yes, I have sources -- one of the benefits of being a "videogame journalist") tell me that the PSP will be much closer to a PS2 in performance than a PS1, whereas Sony was previously saying it would land somewhere in between.

C'mon zmeston, the hardware hasn't even been finalized yet. At it's current state in production the PSP doesn't even have a measured technical performance because a final hardware makeup hasn't been finalized from which even an intitial measurement of technical performance can be taken.

At the moment the unit and any given technical estimates as to it's capabilities are based solely on the theoretical capabilities of hardware components which haven't yet been integrated into a final unit and which are measured at the peak of their potential performance estimates without regard for the drawbacks/impairments and additional technical constraints which are incurred through combining them with the other components under the technical constraints incurred by such a piece of hardware as a portable gaming system.

Yes, the PSP will likely be an impressive piece of gaming hardware but what this means is that nobody knows what the unit's actual capabilites will be, indeed at this stage in the systems development lifecycle even the guys working at Sony's PSP R'n'D would only have a basic estimate at best given that in the best possible case the hardware is only in it's Alpha stage(s).



..there it is, the unit hasn't even produced a prototype yet and all that currently exists is little more than Sony's PR yet you're willing to go with the label "gaming tech miracle". That's nothing but sheer blind bias, there's no healthy sceptisism, no consideration for all the factors which play into or contradict the hype, just fan attitude.

OY!!, I said that, get yer own text :bad-words:

LOL ;)


But I know more than just the PR; I speak with developers, producers, etc. Again, the benefits of "videogame journalism." I spend a lot of time crawling through PR bullshit, not choking it down or regurgitating it. (Well, okay, sometimes the latter, if I'm writing a preview puff-piece, but that's a different topic.)

You know, that's funny, on the developer's side there's very little actual info on the final hardware or capabilities of the PSP, in fact aside from as yet unproven promises, Sony have yet to deliver any solid information or tools which developers can actually work with. Indeed enquiries into pertaining even a beta development platform overview for the hardware pretty much fall flat given to the reason that they haven't yet reached a confirmed setup yet and any info given at this point would be useless as the system architecture is still subject to "significant changes", in fact I've yet to speak with a developer who has been told otherwise, even by their own Publisher.


But they're a very, VERY distant #2, and the GC side pisses away money as fast as the GBA side can make it. This is not healthy in the short or the long term.

Distant #2 fair enough, although the statement that the GC isn't profitable -hardly. Granted the GB is N's biggest earner but last time I checked it accounted for only 70% of N's profit, with the GC pulling up the bulk of the remaining 30%.


i get the feeling zmeston died :p

Nah, he's probably just busy, give the guy some time it's not always easy finding the time to post in a discussion, especially if you've got a project milestone or deadline to meet.

Oh yeah.. Free disk thingie, Zelda goodness, woo..

[zmweasel]

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[SoulBlazer]

Say WHAT? Atari dropped support of the GC? Where? Did'nt Ikaruga sell well enough? That was one of the best 20 games for the system.

Once again the GC is getting shafted despite all the great games for it. Maybe the increased sales with the price drop and the new games coming out will help.

[Predatorxs]

Howdy People,

To be honest i got bored and reading back through some of my last posts, my spelling and grammer where are all over the place, sorry.. Dooooohh! LOL ,As a Video Game Journo! i have let my standards drop.. lol

But unlike zmweasel or zmeston who ever he wants too be this week, i don't go back and edit out crappy and misleading comments and PR crud.

Also i don't need 2 weeks to think up a bunch of replies to a post ( that took me 5 mins at most to write! LOL )

i'm 26 but i don't act it, well that's just me!

And i'm glad you have a debug version of both the XBOX and the PS2 i hope your very happy with them (but who cares?)

I find myself (drunk @_@ at 1:52am) repling to a crazy talkin journo turkey, i must be mad!.... My mates say the PS2 is good but not that good lol?!? (hey... where's my beer!?!)

Lighten up abit and stop takin every comment too heart or is it Hart :embarrassed: OooooooooWell!!

Good night all! Just watched Commando tonight i know it's an old film (1985? where do the years go?) but it is so cool when Arnie is killing people for fun for the last 15 mins of the film, he is the Maaaaan!!

Hey Sully your a funny Guy......!! I love quotes from Arnie films. :P

[zmweasel]

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[ManekiNeko]

Watching Meston and PredatorXS fight reminds me of those Foghorn Leghorn cartoons where the southern fried rooster would grab his canine archenemy by the tail and repeatedly smack him in the ass. Like the dog in those cartoons, Zach is on a leash, holding back in his responses due to his ties to professional video game journalism. I think PredatorXS is taking advantage of that.

JR

[SoulBlazer]

Not that I don't trust your sources, Zach, but they only mention Europe -- does that include North America and Japan as well?

It does'nt matter if some companies drop the GC -- if enough of the major developers continue to release games in the next year -- Namco, Sega, Square Enix, Konami, Capcom, etc. -- then the system still has a chance for success, or at least to hold even in the market war. Every dollar Nintendo gets is a dollar out of Sony's pocket and a reducing in the danger of the industry being totally dominated by one company.

[zmweasel]

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[Predatorxs]

ManekiNeko Has hit the nail on the head.. lol Smart kid!!

I love forums in general (but only really use DP) i like learning more about systems that i'm interested in and sometimes learning surprising stuff about consoles i normally wouldn't be that interested in..

I have found for the most part DP is a great forum, i also do my upmost to stay away from silly thread filling stuff like this, where the topic becomes a tit for tat game, with insults the main aim?

I'm not interested in any of that, (this thread / tit 4 tat) is something i see as a complete waste of peoples time, (although) funny for a quick read, it does get abit thin and personal..

The stuff i post here is either (serious / but fun and helpful) Regarding games / systems / problems / idea's / news. etc

and

Lite-hearted! as in my little pops toward zmweasel, I'm not a flamer i see people that do that on forums as time-wasters. With nothing better to do, i come to DP for the info and the good / great topics that are posted here on a daily basis!

Also zmweasel what was with the name change or am i missing something?

Nite all i need my bed -_- , and my girl wants me too.. doooooh i'v not got the energy! :eek 2:

[zmweasel]

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[Predatorxs]

Alittle correction, i'm not a European Nintendo fanboy i don't like the way nintendo europe do things since basically 92 maybe 93 i have always bought american, starting with the Snes.

I hate the europe versions of nintendo products mainly consoles ie the snes and gamecube!..

MAYBE HATE IS TOO STRONG A WORD, i...... i dis-like alot of there ways, game release delays, why can't they use a port of the american version?

Also the way in which (very recently) they have threatened videogame (and other games outlets in general) that if they sell import games be they JAP or USA they will take away there licence to sell Nintendo products altogether!.

also some of these import games will never get a UK release! (so why stop it!)

Don't get me wrong there will always be people selling import games but nintendo doesn't need to be so heavy handed.

I learned, and learned early that the american versions where the best ever since getting my US Snes all those years back!..

Also i'll take back the turkey remark as well! ;) it's all said in jest!!

[SoulBlazer]

I certinaly hope you continue to stay in the forum, Zach. This thread has been able to stay civil somehow, by the grace of God. :) Considering what we're debating, I must admit I'm surprised.

But even though I may not agree with you on everything, healthy debate is what created this country to begin with and it can be quite productive.

I'm surprised to hear Atari made that decision, after games like Enter the Matrix and what not, but as I said, not a big deal -- I don't consider Infogrames/Atari a BIG publisher anymore (they are not making a profit right now either) although that should change by next year.

And regarding shooters, if they don't do well, then why is R-Type Final and Gradius V coming out? Wait, I think I can answer that. A huge company like Konami that cranks out so many successfull hits can afford to take a risk and a chance of a loss on a more 'cult' game like Gradius V. If it does'nt do well, not the end of the world for them. I guess that's one reason I play more computer games -- the PC market, with it's low cost distrbution systems, is a 'safer' area for small companies to play in, even though they won't sell as many copies. (For example, look at all the old-school graphic adventure games out on the market for the PC -- you'd never see those on a console these days.)

The N5 will make or break Nintendo, though -- I WILL agree on that. :)

[zmweasel]

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[jonjandran]

But even though I may not agree with you on everything, healthy debate is what created this country to begin with and it can be quite productive.


I thought cheap bastards not wanting to pay taxes is what created this country. :hmm:

[lendelin]

Wow, personal attacks a plenty here. :) I don't like personal attacks, I like good reasoning.

I tend to agree with those who predict a very difficult future for N. Over the last 15 years the game market grew, N didn't grow with it and lost steadily market shares. (without knowing exact production and sales figures which are mixed with PR strategies)

At the heart of Ns problem with all the finacial battles with two finacial giants is an image problem. Based on personal experiences and snapshots I picked up, N is perceived not just "cool" anymore, outdated, looking backwards regarding game content, and all this is reenforced by a weakening third party support; the latter makes the "old" strong N franchises more prominent by a game library which lacks a Devil May cry, Onimusha, etc.

Success stories of the past and a long tradition can be a big burden sometimes if you don't reinvent yourself and get an image change. If you're around the block for a long time, suddenly you might look OLD compared to the fresh faces of the new kids on the block.

Ford and Mercedes wouldn't be around if they didn't change images, political parties do, TV networks do, popcorn manufacturers do. The Q is how to do it and follow the golden rule, 'keep your old supporters and win new ones."

1) I'd change the layout of Nintendo Power drastically, target older teen audiences and adult audiences. The GC got a great game in F-Zero GX, and what they did in NP to get you drooled over it is a bit pathetic.

2) The way they changed and presented Metroid Prime is the right way to go, Super mario Sunshine and Zelda WW would be great IF there were other games which balance the game library; but that's not the case. Why not go with Super Mario in a new and fresh direction of Jak and Dexter, Blinx, or Ratchet and Clank? With the incredible name recognition of Super Mario, polished game play, this would be much more appropriate in Ns situation.

3)Why not change the Nintendo logo and make it look more fashionable? Keep the old logo for the buildings and business letters, change if for the games and hardware; combined with aggressive market startegies for the next gen system it might help to overcome the outdated image.

4) The GC with its design and launch color was a big mistake. It was an attempt to focus on Ns strenghth, but in reality it restricted a wider market appeal.

Nintendo has to go in this direction, and even if they go it will be difficult not to get more relegated to a niche market. The monopoly in the handheld market won't last forever, others will come in because the market is way too lucrative to be ignored in the long run; additionally, to be successful in the handheld market will be one tool to push a competitor out of the market.

All of that is easier said than done. it's a very difficult situation for N. I don't wanna be in the shoes of Iwata right now...ok...wait a minute...I'd accept the salary for a year.

[SoulBlazer]

You're right, Zach -- let me rephrase that: The MATURE posters have kept the conversation friendly. LOL

Companies can always come back to a system if cicumstances change, so we'll see what happens. I don't see it as a huge deal for one big company, though (the ones before it are not really huge anymore).

I can kinda understand what some of the fanboys are saying, though -- I love Nintendo dearly, mostly due to growing up as a NES and SNES kid, and the LAST thing I want to see them do is crash and burn. Especily with Sony and Microsoft being left alone in the marketplace. x_x

Have'nt you said eariler that you'd like to see Nintendo do well also so that you have more business and more stuff to write about? :P

Maybe you should offer your services as a advisor. :D

[zmweasel]

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[hydr0x]

Several of the British and German Nintendo fanboys' posts were anything but civil, although at least the latter isn't backtracking and claiming his diatribes were "in jest."



pfff, i don't think you understand what fanboy means man. You know, i don't have a ps2 yet, cause i don't have the money (i've got about $30 per month for videogames). I do have several Ps2 games i got (very) cheap, i also do own Halo, i've played a lot PS2 and XBox (a friend of mine has them all) and i know i'm going to buy both when i have the money. BTW I do own more Sega consoles than Nintendo. I personally do think the Cube has a higher percentage of great/good games than the PS2/Xbox. You see, i might like the games for the cube the most, but that doesn't mean i'm a Nintendo Fanboy. If the next generation consoles the PS3 is superior to the CUbe² than i'll buy the PS3 first.

What does make me a Nintendo-Fanboy in your mind? The fact that i'm saying some of the "facts" you are mentioning are pure lies? (btw, that nintendo makes loss article doesn't say anywhere that the Cube is making loss per unit as you wanted us to believe) The fact that i'm saying you are only guessing most things you say? (like that psp debatte, the only argument of yours is: "hey i'm a journalist, i've got sources, i'm right, you'll see) The fact that you are imho a damn bad journalist cause you are biased? (don't take this personal, you might be a great guy)

oh and talking about personal attacks, i NEVER attacked your person, i only attacked your argumentation, your journalistic qualities and your attacks against others. the only one personally attacking others here is you (ok, predator also), you made this clear again with that European Fanboys statement. Why don't you try to stay with the facts and be a little more open-minded for others oppinions? You know, i checked all your links you posted, read everything, read your posts twice, thought about them, tried to check how much truth there is in them and give a reply which could possibly show you what was wrong with your post or wasn't. But you sir, you are only replying with the same thing all the time: "I get paid for being a videogame journalist, I have got sources, I know more than you all, I know what i'm talking about, so you stfu and believe me you childish fanboys from some weird country". It might be that you didn't want to say that all the time, but fact is, YOU DID!!

oh, and one last thing, how professional is it in your oppinion to change names that often in a forum like this one?

[zmweasel]

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[NvrMore]

Yech.. this thread isn't doing all too well :o

ZM, although it's fair to point out that this thread has gone somewhat off the rails, it's asinine for you to go crying foul at others when you yourself wade into a discussion calling others fanboys and trying to dismiss their comments/posts as fanboyism.

Honestly, crying fanboy isn't discussiing, it's just fishing with flame-bait - whether you intended it or not.

(although, we've already been though the fanboy issue)

However, given to the dubious point that for some reason or another this thread is leading people to re-evaluate their continued posting on this board I think I'd be an idiot (or maybe moreso) to try to keep this discussion going.. it's just not worth it when it gets taken that seriously or comes close to getting that far out of hand.

Still, I can't help but point out one itsy little thing, Infogrammes/Atari isn't dropping the cube, they've never stated they were, they're just dropping two titles, Termy 3 and Driver 3 (3 is the magic number.. DAMN now that song's stuck in my head :angry: ). They still actually have 8 titles lined up for the system (and fuck knows I wish some of them weren't).

(must.. stop.. trying.. to.. discuss)

Zelda freebie.. wooya!

[zmweasel]

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[SoulBlazer]

Well, maybe I'm a fanboy then. I like Sony and the PS2 a lot, also, and I've always seen myself as a gamer -- if a game comes out that I want, then I get it, does'nt matter WHAT is it for. (Which is why I'm seriously thinking of getting a XBox for Ninja Gaiden -- oh, the shame! :D )

Even with all the bad signs, though, I guess I'm just a postive person by nature and don't see Nintendo as done and finished yet. Companies go through bad times -- I could rattle of a hundred right now -- and the next few years are going to be telling. VERY telling.

Really, I don't know what else I can do to support the GameCube -- I buy the games I'm interested in, I get the GC version if more then one exists, I chaulk up the system to friends, and defend it on forums like this. What else can I do? What else can ANYONE do?

I've agreed with 90% percent of what you and many others have said in this thread, I'm just playing devil's advocate on jumping on things that are done RIGHT by Nintendo, and I hope that does'nt paint me with the fanboy brush.

(Now if you excuse me, I just got home from eight hours of night audit work, and I have a warm bed calling my name. ;) )

[zmweasel]

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[SoulBlazer]

That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all week. :D

I suspect some of my logic and debate skills comes from my days as a history major and and my masters work in that field -- reading a 1000 pages a week and writing a 120 page thesis will do that for you. ;)

Although my spelling is sitll god awfull..... :roll:

[hydr0x]

Well, maybe I'm a fanboy then. I like Sony and the PS2 a lot, also, and I've always seen myself as a gamer -- if a game comes out that I want, then I get it, does'nt matter WHAT is it for. (Which is why I'm seriously thinking of getting a XBox for Ninja Gaiden -- oh, the shame! :D )

You're not a fanboy, for many reasons:

1) You have a firm grasp of grammar.

2) On a related note, you don't use more than one exclamation point at the end of, or the middle of, a sentence.

3) You skillfully rebut my Nintendo-is-fucked arguments with proven facts and educated opinions, such as when you pointed out an obvious factor in the decline of Nintendo that I hadn't -- the competition has been stronger with each successive post-NES generation of hardware.

4) You don't define who you are by how many cartridges you own.

-- Z.

mhhhh and what makes me a fanboy then???? you haven't explained that yet. a short answer to your points:

1) English is not my native language, and i honestly think my english is quite good considering this. Why don't you try to discuss in german? :p

2) Well, i don't use exclamation points like that

3) I argue just as fact-based as you do, in fact more. BTW you still don't understand that article, it states that Nintendo lost money during that period, but it doesn't state that Nintendo loses money per cube unit anywhere, FACT

4) I never mentioned how many games i own, so this point also doesn't hit

[NvrMore]

ZM, honestly, you're every bit as bad as anyone else in this thread. :roll:

What on earth is the point of crying foul and making some overly dramatic statement about leaving the boards when you yourself are doing exactly what you're claiming to be a victim of.

C'mon, it's tired and weak.

(btw.. nice backpeddling on your Atari/infogrammes claims.. what happened to "they have dropped the sys", all of a sudden it's "oh, er, they will.. soon-ish".. the expression "bashing for bashing's sake" comes to mind.)

[zmweasel]

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