Calculating the fall of Nintendo

[hydr0x]

Hydrox you said the ratio was 12:5:1 at the moment. But you then posted that you have not sold a Xbox or ps2 in the past few weeks? :o

why don't you try to read and understand posts before saying such things about it?? i said that we didn't have a single customer during the last weeks who came into the store and grabbed an xbox or ps2 without comparing it to the other consoles or asking about them, but we have a lot of customers doing this with the cube right now, they don't even try to ask something about it or the other consoles, that's a clear sign many many people who were not 100% sure about buying a cube are buying it now because of the price drop and a lot of people buy it as a 2nd console



Also everyone is getting on to Radon for bashing, but he also asked people to post their ideas about how Nintendo could turn it around. That does not sound like a basher, just someone asking qusetions to counter his opinion. Most bashers dont ask for your ideas on how they could be wrong.

huh, were did he ask this? the only thing he asked was when how and why nintendo will fail in our opinion, he never asked how they could do thinks better, oh and btw, even if he had asked this, this question implies that they did everything wrong in the last years, which is already bashing ;)

[Nature Boy]

Your ideas are interesting, Raedon, but I see them as flawed. I find it interesting that I never saw you answer the question as to whether you are anti Nintendo or not. Spit it out, dude.

The pricing/availablility of used games today (i.e. Square games) cannot be used to prove a companies importance. I do, however, agree that Nintendo's inability to keep 3rd parties around during the N64 years has hurt them greatly.

Nintendo *did* publish Metroid Prime. They gave the development to Retro Studios in much the same way that they gave the DK64 development to Rare.

As has been mentioned, there are plenty of us who have played every combination of "Manly Adult Game" and "Kiddy Nintendo Game" you can possibly muster. So that argument just doesn't float - not here.

Lately I've seen a company that has starting redeeming itself in my eyes. It's not only selling it's console at a lower price (which doesn't affect me as I paid full price on launch day). It's using it's peripherals finally (those new levels in SMB3 are a blast). And it's offering countless incentives and freebies for pretty much everything (I'm a subscriber to Nintendo Power right now because of the free Zelda Collection offer). Plus, since their games seem to be the only ones that sell, they've started offering development to 3rd parties as an incentive to stick with them (Sega doing F-Zero, Namco using Link in Soul Calibur).

They still have problems and obviously have a way to go to make some ground, but these are steps in the right direction IMO. Maybe they've learned from some of their past mistakes.

[Hep038]

Thats what I was asking Hydr0x, I did not understand your post. I was not attacking you just asking a question. But hey thanks for giving me such a nice answer. From now on when you post I will make sure not to read them, so I will not be tempted to ask any questions.

[Arcade Antics]

The start of the fall of Nintendo occured when Nintendo said no to blood in Mortal Kombat.. For me, that was a defining moment.. I was able to see Rated R movies, but I couldn't get blood in the bloodiest game at that time? Nintendo's decision confused the market for young gamers, these 12-20 gamers turned out to be the top demographic of gamers 10 years later. These were the future parents and geeks who played GTA III: Vice City, but not Zelda:WW.

This one's a defining moment for you, but not for all of gaming. You're forgetting that they reversed this policy soon afterwards with the glorious (GORYous?) release of MKII. The SNES cart is the best home version available. If anything, Nintendo only got MORE popular at this point in their history and sold more consoles and games. :)

[hydr0x]

Thats what I was asking Hydr0x, I did not understand your post. I was not attacking you just asking a question. But hey thanks for giving me such a nice answer. From now on when you post I will make sure not to read them, so I will not be tempted to ask any questions.

your post didn't feel like a question, it felt like an attack, you might try to think about that!

[neuropolitique]

*dances on Nintendo's grave*

[Gentlegamer]

Nintendo's last console must be a real failure . . . no stores seem to ever have it in stock.

[crazyjackcsa]

Well looks like there is some crow that needs eating... Another one of the "hardcore" that doesn't understand Nintendo's buisness model.

[retro junkie]

Wow, talk about missing the boat. The video game idustry is like the weather, a little hard to predict. A hysterical funny read.
ROFL

[G-Boobie]

Nice bit of message board archaeology.

It's odd how the tables have turned. I'm waiting for someone to start a Sony thread with a similar theme now.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Miyamotowned!

Alright, Mr. Peabody, we are confiscating the Way-Back Machine. LOL

[DeputyMoniker]

Well looks like there is some crow that needs eating... Another one of the "hardcore" that doesn't understand Nintendo's buisness model.

Nintendo's business model is to fail with two consoles? Oh, well, shit, according to Nintendo's business model, the Wii was due. Of course. Learn to read a business model, Raedon.

[boatofcar]

Pretty sure the N64 and Gamecube didn't "fail." The Virtual Boy was a failure. The 32X was a failure.

[NE146]

Sony pushing up on the portable market. Nintendo will be forced (if they are smart) to drop the Console market all together, devert all resources and make a better nextgen handheld then Sony. Portable GTA III vs. portable Mario sunshine is not a good thing if you have money invested in Nintendo.

Funny thing is that did come to pass.. we got our portable GTA with nice PSP graphics, and we got a Mario.. only thing though is it was a 2D Mario.

Guess it didn't really make a difference though LOL

[crazyjackcsa]

Nintendo's business model is to fail with two consoles? Oh, well, shit, according to Nintendo's business model, the Wii was due. Of course. Learn to read a business model, Raedon.


The business model of making games for everybody: the longtime game player, the brand new game player, the young, the old, whatever. Make games fun for every one: That's the buisness model. that might mean that the games aren't high tech enough, or "mature" enough for the "hardcore"

Furthermore, Was the Gamecube a success? The N64? Were they profitable for Nintendo? The answer is yes. Just because they weren't #1 , or because they weren't the "cool kid console" doesn't mean they failed.

[retro junkie]

Furthermore, Was the Gamecube a success? The N64? Were they profitable for Nintendo? The answer is yes. Just because they weren't #1 , or because they weren't the "cool kid console" doesn't mean they failed.

How very true. Nintendo has a knack for knowing how to make money on new and old technology. And they have been very profitable on the game hardware they have marketed. I think the Virtual Boy has been the exception.
From Nintendo's viewpoint they have been very successful.

[murdoc rose]

first off i love my 64 but thats because its just a big nes and I agree it wasn't there best bet. Nintendo has been dyeing since the virtual boy. Their biggest mistake is the continued push towards kid. The game cube is the best example, 95% of the library are kids games not to say kids games are bad but a shooter would be nice every once in a while. I didn't buy one when it came out just because I wanted to play gta3. When you go into portables the gba was awesome for its time but thats long past and all the ds is well it is honestly a gba with a touch screen. Thats cool and all but not what they need to do. Its ok to be different but the wii seems to be more of a novelty than anything else. Nintendo need to change alot of things and put out a real system for a change.

[SpaceHarrier]

I tend to think it's because Nintendo has stuck to their formula and offered games appropriate for everyone in the family - they have managed to survive. That is their niche.

Think about it.. If you discount all the shovelware based on CG cartoons and Hannah Montana that EVERY system in existence gets... what QUALITY family-friendly games are there on the MS and Sony systems? What simple, accessible games are there? What game is there that you could say "this is a good first game for my son/daughter/pet raccoon?" Well, I'm sure they are there, but let's consider image. Image makes or breaks the sale when it comes to casual consumers. So does price-point.

(I hope that didn't come off too 'fanboyish'. It wasn't my intent. I like Sony and MS too. I'm just sayin' there is a need for kids games too.)

[Graham Mitchell]

first off i love my 64 but thats because its just a big nes and I agree it wasn't there best bet. Nintendo has been dyeing since the virtual boy. Their biggest mistake is the continued push towards kid. The game cube is the best example, 95% of the library are kids games not to say kids games are bad but a shooter would be nice every once in a while. I didn't buy one when it came out just because I wanted to play gta3. When you go into portables the gba was awesome for its time but thats long past and all the ds is well it is honestly a gba with a touch screen. Thats cool and all but not what they need to do. Its ok to be different but the wii seems to be more of a novelty than anything else. Nintendo need to change alot of things and put out a real system for a change.

Both the Gamecube and Wii have shooters and other games aimed at adults. And they don't suck, either (Eternal Darkness?) Have you played Too Many Heroes? It's loaded with tits and blood...and going potty.

The "Nintendo is aimed at kids" argument is old and tired, and hasn't bee true since the SNES. The Wii has a large number of children's titles/shovelware, yes, but there are plenty of adult-oriented games on the machine. Nintendo doesn't totally ignore their older audience. They have never released an extremely violent first-party title, true, but they've never stopped third-party publishers from doing so.

[DeputyMoniker]

Just because they weren't #1 , or because they weren't the "cool kid console" doesn't mean they failed.


I was lucky everything worked so quickly. For the longest time I wasn't sure what would happen first: that we'd see success with the new console, or that I'd be fired.

Nintendo does not share your definition of "success."

[Eric Dude]

Nintendo does not share your definition of "success."

Oh man, an out-of-context quote! You've sure got the Nintendo fanboys by the balls now!

This thread is ridiculous. Just stop.

[G-Boobie]

"No More Heroes", Graham.

Nintendo is just fine, boys and girls. They haven't abandoned their core audience, either: it's just that their core audience's demands are harder to satisfy. They won't swoon over stuff like Wii Play or Wii Music; they want Zelda, Pikmin, Mario and Metroid. Those take longer to make.

[j_factor]

The "Nintendo is aimed at kids" argument is old and tired, and hasn't bee true since the SNES.

You have to admit that earned that reputation well, even if it isn't true anymore. In the NES days games (including third-party) were heavily censored -- even simple images like crosses had to be removed. This continued into the SNES. It's not just Mortal Kombat either. Shadowrun was not allowed to use the term "chop shop" for morgue, Final Fight had to remove the female enemies, etc.

The biggest thing for me is when Nintendo representatives bashed the competition at congressional hearings, with boasts such as "we would never allow a game like Night Trap on a Nintendo system!" (gee, maybe that's because you don't even have a system capable of it?) I also recall them initially making disparaging comments about the concept of content ratings for games. And they harped on the Mortal Kombat blood issue, bragging to congress about how their games weren't corrupting children with extreme violence like Sega's, only to do a complete 180 with Mortal Kombat II a year later. Hugely hypocritical.

[tom]

nintendo are always lucky, if the big boxes don't work, the handhelds always bring in the goodies.
look at europe, wii's in the shops collecting dust, but ds doing extremely well, just like in the 90s with the game boy (nintendos top selling console in europe).

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well, how many NES/SNES units could you find in an old folks home 15 years back? You will now find Wiis... although the elderly are like giant kids, in diapers and all. LOL Thanks for spelling out "since the SNES" for us all -- me being born sometime yesterday, I had no idea. :p

Considering how brutal the Genny/SNES competition was Nintendo's actions back then are very understandable. Less hypocrisy than not being able to afford the high road they preferred. The Gen ver of MK sold how much more vs the SNES ver? MK2 was the crossed line and it can be argued that it was a forced move and not an intentional 180 on policy. If MK sold as much or better on the SNES vs the Gen ver then the SNESs MK2 would have probably been a sanitized version as well.

Again, old and tired. :)

[Graham Mitchell]

"No More Heroes", Graham.



Sorry, I was drunk. ;)

[Graham Mitchell]

You have to admit that earned that reputation well, even if it isn't true anymore. In the NES days games (including third-party) were heavily censored -- even simple images like crosses had to be removed. This continued into the SNES. It's not just Mortal Kombat either. Shadowrun was not allowed to use the term "chop shop" for morgue, Final Fight had to remove the female enemies, etc.

The biggest thing for me is when Nintendo representatives bashed the competition at congressional hearings, with boasts such as "we would never allow a game like Night Trap on a Nintendo system!" (gee, maybe that's because you don't even have a system capable of it?) I also recall them initially making disparaging comments about the concept of content ratings for games. And they harped on the Mortal Kombat blood issue, bragging to congress about how their games weren't corrupting children with extreme violence like Sega's, only to do a complete 180 with Mortal Kombat II a year later. Hugely hypocritical.

Oh, I agree. And back in 1994, I was of the opinion that, other than some of the RPG's and Super Metroid, the SNES was targeting younger people.

But the dude I was quoting was trying to level that criticism at the Gamecube, and it wasn't true. The PS2 had just as much kiddie shovelware at that time. In fact, there were very few third-party GCN games that WEREN'T released on the PS2 as well.

[j_factor]

Considering how brutal the Genny/SNES competition was Nintendo's actions back then are very understandable. Less hypocrisy than not being able to afford the high road they preferred. The Gen ver of MK sold how much more vs the SNES ver? MK2 was the crossed line and it can be argued that it was a forced move and not an intentional 180 on policy. If MK sold as much or better on the SNES vs the Gen ver then the SNESs MK2 would have probably been a sanitized version as well.

Exactly my point -- when they found out it was costing them money, they gleefully reversed their position. So what does that say about the supposed principle behind the policy in the first place?


Oh, I agree. And back in 1994, I was of the opinion that, other than some of the RPG's and Super Metroid, the SNES was targeting younger people.

But the dude I was quoting was trying to level that criticism at the Gamecube, and it wasn't true. The PS2 had just as much kiddie shovelware at that time. In fact, there were very few third-party GCN games that WEREN'T released on the PS2 as well.

I am completely in agreement about the Gamecube. I think its "kiddie image" was more a continuation of Nintendo's prior reputation, rather than an actual assessment of the Gamecube itself. The Gamecube had lots of good games with "mature appeal", although unfortunately, many of them were underrated or never got any attention. Geist being the perfect example.

[Eric Dude]

Exactly my point -- when they found out it was costing them money, they gleefully reversed their position. So what does that say about the supposed principle behind the policy in the first place?



So businesses only operate on morals when it's profitable or required of them. Hardly anything new.

[DeputyMoniker]

Oh man, an out-of-context quote! You've sure got the Nintendo fanboys by the balls now!

This thread is ridiculous. Just stop.

Here. In context. Take what you want from it.


Satoru Iwata: I always believed that more people would be playing video games if the barrier between them and the game was much lower than it was, and in many cases, still is. In my first year as a president, my ideas were met with skepticism. My predecessor, Mr. Yamauchi, always said that you should change things in the entertainment industry -- that you should do the unexpected when the market is declining in order to survive. I was sure that if we continued down the path in which we were heading, Nintendo would have died a slow death. At that time the market had been in decline for six years -- not only for Nintendo, but for the games industry in Japan as a whole. So we had to change things and attract new customers.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Were you sure you would succeed?

Iwata: I was lucky that it worked so fast. For a long time I was not sure what would happen first: Would success come or would I get fired?

[Icarus Moonsight]

Not only was Nintendo calculating their own lifespan, Iwata was browsing the classifieds for job prospects on the weekends calculating on his own accord. "E-Reader?!? Oh God, they're gonna can my ass for sure now!" LOL