Calculating the fall of Nintendo

[Raedon]

I always get a bunch of flack when I predict that Nintendo is at the end of its days as a console maker. So I figured I'd list the things that have, and will, lead up to this occurance.

The start of the fall of Nintendo occured when Nintendo said no to blood in Mortal Kombat.. For me, that was a defining moment.. I was able to see Rated R movies, but I couldn't get blood in the bloodiest game at that time? Nintendo's decision confused the market for young gamers, these 12-20 gamers turned out to be the top demographic of gamers 10 years later. These were the future parents and geeks who played GTA III: Vice City, but not Zelda:WW.

The second fault came with the N64 and the Nintendo's lack of innovation toward CD media. I'd bet good money they didn't go CD because they were worried about piracy more then licensing fees. In the end the N64 came out as if from two different design schools.. It was the most powerful 3D console at the time up to the Dreamcast, but OPPS! you only get a few meg of room for your games :eek 2: The carts were to expensive for much 3rd party support and, Nintendo was still high from the NES, SNES earnings so I assume they had strong licensing fee's also.. So now the only games worth playing are in house or house owned (RARE.) The late release date of the N64 was also a huge fault. Sega Saturn Vs. Sony Playstation battle of the Buggy VF2/Battle Arena Toshinden already happened and Sony had won (that battle was so quick I really didn't see it until years later.) Gamers were all about Final Fantasy 7 when the N64 launched with Mario64, Waverace 64, and Pilotwings 64 as it's only games for a full year until Goldeneye 007.

The loss of Squaresoft. They made the SNES. High sales of used SNES squaresoft carts say so, and I say so for that matter.. Sure there was a Zelda and Mario, but FF3 OMG, Chronotrigger, Secret of Mana.

The lack of a DVD player on the Gamecube, because Nintendo was worried about piracy to protect their 3rd parties who, ironically, jumped ship. Now 10 years later, even Nintendo can't make a solid product with any of it's flagship mascots.. best game.. Metroid Prime which wasn't made in house.

treating online gaming like a fad was the final blow to the nails in the Nintendo console coffin. The old schoolers are now playing PC games (as they are out of college and into careers and families) and the few who did buy a GC and an online adapter feel about as taken as the kid who bought a 32X.

A PS2 now sits in the living room like Atari once did.
See, Nintendo was always considered a toy in my house, even the C64 got more credit.. when the Atari came out, it was the pride of the family TV area! The PS2 does the same for the gaming family of the first years of the 21st century.

So where does this leave Nintendo as a console maker? It leaves them in a check-mate. 3rd party gone, two failed flagship products (Sony makes a LOT more then the PS2 as does Microsoft) and no real flagship exclusives coming from companies like rockstar and square-enix. You know the X-Box might not be all that, but at least they were able to get GTA III even if just to say, "we will get it.. sooner or later.."

Sony pushing up on the portable market. Nintendo will be forced (if they are smart) to drop the Console market all together, devert all resources and make a better nextgen handheld then Sony. Portable GTA III vs. portable Mario sunshine is not a good thing if you have money invested in Nintendo.



If you are going to comment, please keep the fanboy light.. try to use facts or at least some logic to why Nintendo will live on past it's next console.

[ubersaurus]

I don't think square made the SNES. Hell I didn't even give a shit about them until FF7 got all the press it did, and I know a number of other people who felt the same way. I mean, sure, those games were good...but I really don't think they pushed systems.

[Flack]

Two other disasters along the way.

#1, losing RARE. Donkey Kong Country put RARE into every kid's brain. They got the reputation of being Nintendo's right hand group -- whenever a hit was needed, they turned to RARE. Whether it's the case or not, when Nintendo lost RARE to MS it gave the perception that the game was over.

#2, the N64 controller. I can't tell you how many people never gave the N64 a fair chance due to that controller. Between that and the lack of CDs which really became the lack of full FMV games and games with large soundtracks, it was an uphill battle from the beginning.

[Raedon]

but that is what has happened.. The RPG games pushed the market for the last two consoles, not the 3D platformers.. not the army men.. Final Fantasy and Tekken (forgot to mention the fighters and the N64.)

[aaron_157]

Let sony make their handheld, maybe they will sell more than the 5000 in 2 weeks (lol) nokia did, well??? maybe not

[zmweasel]

Let sony make their handheld, maybe they will sell more than the 5000 in 2 weeks (lol) nokia did, well??? maybe not

I think it's quite safe to assume that Sony will sell 5,000 PSPs in the first half-hour.

-- Z.

[Raedon]

This is the maker of the walkman you know, you can't take Sony lightly..

[WiseSalesman]

#2, the N64 controller. I can't tell you how many people never gave the N64 a fair chance due to that controller. Between that and the lack of CDs which really became the lack of full FMV games and games with large soundtracks, it was an uphill battle from the beginning.

The N64 controller is the most comfortable controller I have ever used and still my favorite. Finally, a controller existed that was comfortable to both my best friend (freakishly large hands) and myself (slightly small hands). I've never known a single person (until now) that hated the N64 controller.

As far as FMV goes, I'll agree with you that it was indeed a big source of the N64's failure. However, I'd like to add to that note that it was less the lack of FMV and more the idiocy of the general public placing that much worth on pretty, non-interactive, high-load time graphics.

[Zubiac666]

nintendo will die out of the console market?
I don't think so....and if they ever drop it,I'll drop VGs too
I'll even burn my whole VG-collection
For me Nintendo is the last hope to keep the essence of videogaming alive
call me fanboy...BAH I don't really care
call me kiddie (like my x-box and PS2 "friends" did/do cause I prefer Zelda WW over GTA).....I don't care
Hell,nowadays I'm even kinda "proud" to be called Nintendo "Fanboy"

just my opinion
:(

so,now start beating me up (verbally) :D
show no mercy
:D

[hezeuschrist]

I read the title, and I read the last line of your post. I was going to read the whole thing but I'm sure it's just blah blah blah Nintendo is gonna die blah blah blah speculation blah blah speculation blah speculation and speculation.

No one has any idea what's going to happen to Nintendo, what their next console is going to be or what the crap they're gonna announce next (the new item thats not a console and not a portable). My guess is whatever it is will suck because it'll just be a gimmick, and then I'll wait and see what happens with their next, and possibly final console.

It could so easily go both ways, and without any idea of what direction they're leaning towards, speculation is just gossip.

[aaron_157]

nintendo will die out of the console market?
I don't think so....and if they ever drop it,I'll drop VGs too
I'll even burn my whole VG-collection
For me Nintendo is the last hope to keep the essence of videogaming alive
call me fanboy...BAH I don't really care
call me kiddie (like my x-box and PS2 "friends" did/do cause I prefer Zelda WW over GTA).....I don't care
Hell,nowadays I'm even kinda "proud" to be called Nintendo "Fanboy"

just my opinion
:(

so,now start beating me up (verbally) :D
show no mercy
:D

Fuckin A, Im not the only one

[briskbc]

Sadly it may just boil down to money. The market has never been able to sustain support of 3 consoles. Sega hung on for a long time and I was hoping for them. I never owned a sega system until the DC. That was a great console.

Microsoft isn't going anywhere. They will continue to buy a share of themarket just like the New York Rangers. This is a foothold to something they see as being a huge market. I'm sure they have designs for set top boxes capable of multiple functions.

Sony is the current giant and it would take a series of spectacular Sega type failures to put them in 3rd place.

That leaves Nintendo who may be in second place right now (Last I heard they past Microsoft in sales) but it comes back to who has deeper pockets. The next Nintendo console may be the make it or break it system.

Although it will be interesting to see how their attempt to penetrate the Chinese market works out.

[NvrMore]

Oh, what is the point of this bash-boy topic other than to try and put down a company because you prefer a different console.

Strange how every little fault is repeatedly picked on with regard to N, but people just skete on over the difficulty the other consoles are in and the faults said companies are suffering for.

Hey, newsflash, the entire gaming market is dropping down the shitter right now and all the companies, Hardware, software, publisher andl developer is sufferring in some way but hey lets not be un-trendy here.. thet's the bash-boy thing.. again.

yech (sorry but a topic like this deserves that).


The loss of Squaresoft. They made the SNES. High sales of used SNES squaresoft carts say so, and I say so for that matter.. Sure there was a Zelda and Mario, but FF3 OMG, Chronotrigger, Secret of Mana..

Sorry, but contrary to your preference influenced belief, square did not make the SNES - they made some good games but they certainly weren't the driving force behind the SNES sales. In japan, their RPG output was impressive but in comparison to some of the other offerings available they weren't the sole runners in the RPG market by a long shot, let alone the game selection as a whole. Enix and N alone (and there were many more) put out some damn spectacular offerings which put the FF's and the CT's to the test.

In europe, Square's flagship titles didn't even make it to release, yet the console still succeeded on it's library. High sales of other software titles, especially non-rpg also drove the system's success with many of those having far greater imnpact on the overall success of the system than Square's offerings.

Of course it's very easy as a collector to gain a misconception of the overall value and popularity of the RPG genre at the time of a console's life given that said titles maintain a generally high price point and hold their fanbase longer than other titles, largely due to their storylkine driven element which unlike the technical features of games, don't generally diminish over time.



Now 10 years later, even Nintendo can't make a solid product with any of it's flagship mascots.. best game.. Metroid Prime which wasn't made in house.

That's a joke right? Nintendo can't make a solid title?

I'm sorry but that point is falling entirely on your personal opinion alone. Apart from anything else N's recent releases, have been very well recived both for their technical and gaming values. And, (since we're throwing in personal opinion in place of arguimentative point) have been for the most part, damn good fun.



treating online gaming like a fad was the final blow to the nails in the Nintendo console coffin. The old schoolers are now playing PC games (as they are out of college and into careers and families) and the few who did buy a GC and an online adapter feel about as taken as the kid who bought a 32X.

Online console gaming is at present nowhere near a viable venture in terms of business revenue and contrary to the advertising blurb is nowhere near as popular as would be required to make it so.

Taking the most notable example, MS's Xbox live service. It is losing tens of millions due to the costs and proportionally low userbase of the service. It is being run at a huge loss to support the console which it serves as a key selling point for and while it may be good for the gamers who use it, as a buiness venture it's unfeasibly expensive and unprofitable given that the technology and gaming market essentially isn't ready yet, so many people as yet don't even have a BB service and as such, online gaming isn't a option given the limited value in attempting to use it via a standard telephone line.

Apart from that, online gaming isn't used by the majority of gamers and of those who have used online gaming on a console, few use it regularily enough or see it as a key gaming feature to warrant it's cost.




A PS2 now sits in the living room like Atari once did.
See, Nintendo was always considered a toy in my house, even the C64 got more credit.. when the Atari came out, it was the pride of the family TV area! The PS2 does the same for the gaming family of the first years of the 21st century.

Ah, the kiddy argument, how predictable..

An argument typically undertaken by those who buy into the "mature gaming" blurb perpetrated by mass advertising, little realising that the very concept itself is a paradox and irrespective of whatever gaming system they're playing on they don't look any more "cool" or mature sitting hunched over, slouched back or eyes glued to a screen playing on a game (a toy) just as they did back in the days before an advertising campaign told them what was acceptible and what wasn't and how it was "different" if they used their product.

It wasn't cool before, but that's all changed.. you're doing exactly the same thing but it's different now, because the guys at advertising say so.

Coming soon, the advertising campaign that tells you which sexuality is cool - expect flashing lights, meaningless catchphrases and big-man tough-guy rap and tachno music.. "your sexuality is equatable to kiddy-fiddling unless you use our condoms - EXTREME protection from the underground"



-------------------


You know I wonder if I'll ever get to play counter argument in a thread bashing other companies..

I think I need an ad campaign.

Ah, crap.. I didn't agree with the N bashing, now I need another ad campaign so that I don't get called a fanboy.. bugger.

[NvrMore]

[tough-guy techno rap music]
[random image of dog lovin' a tree]

"That post was not too long, it was real, from the hood..
..
.. *explosions*
..
Long posts.. posting TO THE MAX!!"

[/random image of dog lovin' a tree]
[/tough-guy techno rap music]

[Flack]

The N64 controller is the most comfortable controller I have ever used and still my favorite. Finally, a controller existed that was comfortable to both my best friend (freakishly large hands) and myself (slightly small hands). I've never known a single person (until now) that hated the N64 controller.

Really? Really? Wow. I loved ExciteBike64 so much, but I couldn't stand to play it for long periods because my left hand would literally cramp up when trying to use that analog stick and Z button. There is always room for innovation in consoles, but they innovated that controller a bit too far.

There's a classic thread somewhere about the worst controllers ever, and the N64 was mentioned in the first four posts. I don't think I'm alone here.

Link: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20304&highlight=controller

[Griking]

Let sony make their handheld, maybe they will sell more than the 5000 in 2 weeks (lol) nokia did, well??? maybe not

I think it's quite safe to assume that Sony will sell 5,000 PSPs in the first half-hour.

-- Z.


You're unfortunately correct. Sony Fanboys will blindly trip over themselves to hand their money over to Sony when this thing is released without even knowing if it was any good or not. It's unfortunately all about name recognition. Sony's got name. Nokia doesn't.. This was the case when Sega released the Dreamcast. The Dreamcast was better than any system out at the time but Son'y press convinced all the fans to not buy a Dreamcast but to just wait a little while longer until the PS2 was out and they wouldn't be sorry. Its been what, two years now since the Dreamcast died and I STILL haven't seen any games on the PS2 which are significantly better than what I saw on the Dreamcast. But again, its all about name recognition, $$$ and who can afford the best marketing team. Quality comes in a distant fourth.

[digitalpress]

The N64 controller is the most comfortable controller I have ever used and still my favorite. Finally, a controller existed that was comfortable to both my best friend (freakishly large hands) and myself (slightly small hands). I've never known a single person (until now) that hated the N64 controller.

Really? Really? Wow. I loved ExciteBike64 so much, but I couldn't stand to play it for long periods because my left hand would literally cramp up when trying to use that analog stick and Z button. There is always room for innovation in consoles, but they innovated that controller a bit too far

I have to second this. When I think of controllers of recent years that just DON'T feel right, The N64 is the first one that comes to mind. Same as Flack, I never had "hand cramps" before extensive use of my N64 controllers.

[Raedon]

It could so easily go both ways, .

Really? Mind stating some ways Nintendo could get back into making the console biz profitable again?

[gamegirl79]

The lack of a DVD player on the Gamecube, because Nintendo was worried about piracy to protect their 3rd parties who, ironically, jumped ship. Now 10 years later, even Nintendo can't make a solid product with any of it's flagship mascots.. best game.. Metroid Prime which wasn't made in house.

Frankly I don't care that the Gamecube doesn't have a DVD player. I have 3 other DVD players in my house, so why would I need another? DVD players are a dime a dozen these days, and my decision on whether or not to buy a console isn't going to be swayed by the lack of a DVD player.

As far as solid products with it's flagship mascots, what about Mario Kart Double Dash? Zelda WW? Super Smash Bros. Melee? Luigi's Mansion? This is really just a matter of opinion, but I believe those are all very good titles.

[Raedon]

Sorry, but contrary to your preference influenced belief, square did not make the SNES .

No, but they did make the PSX. No time to argue (big work day), I'm a big Nintendo fanboy so don't think I'm some PS2 freak pushing Sony contiousness here.. :roll:

[digitalpress]

@Raedon: just one question. Are you anti-Nintendo? I mean, these kinds of discussions are generally started by people who are "anti" and also commonly show the landscape from one very "anti" point of view.

[YoshiM]

Bah, I don't go by history to determine the fall of big game companies. I use the "4 system" method. Note, this is for US home consoles only and NOT handhelds or old "Pong" style systems:

Atari: VCS/2600, 5200, 7800, Jaguar (the CD was an accessory and not a console in and of itself)---dead & now is just a name

Sega: Master System, Genesis (CD & 32X were accessories), Saturn, Dreamcast---dead and now is platform agnostic.

and now Nintendo: NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube---what will the future hold...dun..dun..DUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNN

;) LOL

[Raedon]

WAIT A SEC!! OMG!! NVRMORE IS A NINTENDO FANGIRL!!!

[ADMIN EDIT: GIGANTIC QUOTED REPLY REMOVED TO PRESERVE SANITY]

PS please don't start with the personal attacks.

Non-adim coment: I think NVRMORE is cool!! It wasn't an attack ugh!!!!!! I LIKE NINTENDO FANGIRLS!!!!

[digitalpress]

Bah, I don't go by history to determine the fall of big game companies. I use the "4 system" method. Note, this is for US home consoles only and NOT handhelds or old "Pong" style systems:

Atari: VCS/2600, 5200, 7800, Jaguar (the CD was an accessory and not a console in and of itself)---dead & now is just a name

Hey! You left out the XEGS. Even if you're excluding computers, the XEGS is a cartridge game system.


Sega: Master System, Genesis (CD & 32X were accessories), Saturn, Dreamcast---dead and now is platform agnostic.

and now Nintendo: NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube---what will the future hold...dun..dun..DUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNN

Hey! You left out Virtual Boy (as did Raedon in his argument - most people casting off Nintendo use the VB failure to make a point). You're not going to call that a handheld, are you?

Interesting theory though.

[Half Japanese]

I think the main failure on Nintendo's part is that they aren't "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak. I mean, you can point out Eternal Darkness and your other M-rated games all day long, but they don't have a cash-cow like GTA. I don't even care for the series but you can't deny it's presence and influence over the past few years.

And those mini-discs: they're nice and cute, but they only hold 1.5 Gigs. That means you're not going to see a lot of huge RPGs and other massive games on them (GTA, Morrowind, etc.).

The only proper analogy I can think of for Nintendo is that of a stubborn dictator overthworn in a coup. They might not be number 1 any more, but they'll be damned if they don't act like it.

The N64 was a pretty big piece of shit in my opinion, outside of Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and a few others. I also found it hilarious how Nintendo justified selling Rare by saying "they accounted for less than 1% of our total profits over the last year." Yeah, of course they did, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T RELEASE A GAME THAT YEAR, OR EVEN THE YEAR BEFORE.

Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo, and the NES got me hooked on playing games, but at the same time this whole approach they're taking towards everything lately (where gimmicky pieces of shit like the ereader are supposed to get us all giddy) has me almost rooting for their fall.

[Blendo75]

These were the future parents and geeks who played GTA III: Vice City, but not Zelda:WW.

Why do you think it has to be one or the other? Am I the only one who played, enjoyed and finished both of these games? Can I not have it both ways??? I admit, though that GTA III was a "fresher" experience than Wind Waker. But Wind Waker held my interest even more than Metroid Prime did.

[Mayhem]

I think the main failure on Nintendo's part is that they aren't "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak. I mean, you can point out Eternal Darkness and your other M-rated games all day long, but they don't have a cash-cow like GTA. I don't even care for the series but you can't deny it's presence and influence over the past few years.

Pokemon? :P


And those mini-discs: they're nice and cute, but they only hold 1.5 Gigs. That means you're not going to see a lot of huge RPGs and other massive games on them (GTA, Morrowind, etc.).

Sure, a smaller capacity than normal DVDs. But given the fact the Cube does better compression than either of the other two consoles, and that much of that space is taken up by FMV etc rather than actual game code, I hardly see where or why "massive" games can't be stored on them. Quite often I prefer cutscenes to be done using the same engine as the main game as it looks seamless rather than completely out of place.

Plus they're quick due to the way the Cube reads them. Just watching the poor PS2 grunt and grind its way through 10+ seconds of loading to do something the Cube achieves in under 2 seconds is frankly painful at times.

[Captain Wrong]

I don't think square made the SNES. Hell I didn't even give a shit about them until FF7 got all the press it did, and I know a number of other people who felt the same way. I mean, sure, those games were good...but I really don't think they pushed systems.


Sorry, but contrary to your preference influenced belief, square did not make the SNES - they made some good games but they certainly weren't the driving force behind the SNES sales. In japan, their RPG output was impressive but in comparison to some of the other offerings available they weren't the sole runners in the RPG market by a long shot, let alone the game selection as a whole. Enix and N alone (and there were many more) put out some damn spectacular offerings which put the FF's and the CT's to the test.

Of course it's very easy as a collector to gain a misconception of the overall value and popularity of the RPG genre at the time of a console's life given that said titles maintain a generally high price point and hold their fanbase longer than other titles, largely due to their storyline driven element which unlike the technical features of games, don't generally diminish over time.

THANK YOU. Damn, I get sick of hearing how Square made the SNES. No one I knew back in the SNES days owned a single Square game. In fact, the only time I'd even seen a Square game prior to FFVII was Rad Racer. If these Square games were the system sellers, why are the stores not choking on them like they are sports games and the Nintendo hits?

That last point NvrMore, wow, that's the best explination I've ever heard. I think it's very easy for people in the gaming community to lose perspective for all the reasons you mentioned. Even though the Final Fantasy series is pretty mainstream, I still see RPGs as a whole still being a niche. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem to me that there's another RPG that moves close to the numbers FF does.

That's all I wanted to say. Not trying to hate on Square, I just think too often their importance is overemphasized. I'm going to duck back out of this conversation before it gets ugly. Say what you will about Nintendo, but it's hard to find any other videogame company that inspires the same kind of emotional reaction the big N does.

[portnoyd]

This is the maker of the walkman you know, you can't take Sony lightly..

Concerning the PSP, they'll also the makers of the MiniDisc. Gee, that caught on fast, didn't it?

The PSP is guarenteed to sell, but it's not certain that it will take over the market. (Not that anyone said this, but I wrote it anyway)

dave

[Half Japanese]

Sony still sells and manufactures mini-disc players. Can't say the same for the Virtual Boy ;).

And I don't think Pokemon is nearly as successful as it was in the peak it hit about '99 or so.

[portnoyd]

Sony still sells and manufactures mini-disc players. Can't say the same for the Virtual Boy ;).

Hey, I know more Virtual Boy owners than Minidisc owners ;)

dave

[Raedon]

These were the future parents and geeks who played GTA III: Vice City, but not Zelda:WW.

Why do you think it has to be one or the other? Am I the only one who played, enjoyed and finished both of these games? Can I not have it both ways??? I admit, though that GTA III was a "fresher" experience than Wind Waker. But Wind Waker held my interest even more than Metroid Prime did.

It was an anology.. could have said, "FF-X not Zelda" or, "Metal Gear not Sunshine" same thing

[leonk]

And those mini-discs: they're nice and cute, but they only hold 1.5 Gigs. That means you're not going to see a lot of huge RPGs and other massive games on them (GTA, Morrowind, etc.)

Visit a site like xbox-scene.com and check out the forum.. they have a thread that shows the size of current games for the XBOX.

I was shocked to find out that both GTA and Vice city are about 1GB big and less!

In fact, a lot of XBOX games are less than 1GB big!

So the size of the disc fight in a moot point.

[leonk]

Sony still sells and manufactures mini-disc players. Can't say the same for the Virtual Boy ;).

Hey, I know more Virtual Boy owners than Minidisc owners ;)

dave

Dave, CD's might rule in North America, but Japan is full of mini-disc. In fact, there is more mini-disc in Japan than CD's for sale! EVERYONE listens only to mini disc!

[Dire 51]

THANK YOU. Damn, I get sick of hearing how Square made the SNES. No one I knew back in the SNES days owned a single Square game. In fact, the only time I'd even seen a Square game prior to FFVII was Rad Racer. If these Square games were the system sellers, why are the stores not choking on them like they are sports games and the Nintendo hits?

I agree. Very few gamers I knew back during the SNES era owned any of Square's titles. Most of the SNES players that I knew were excited about games coming from Konami, Capcom and Nintendo - and to a much, much lesser extent, Square. They didn't offer the variety that the other companies I mentioned did - and as far as I'm concerned, they still don't.

[Kevin Listwan]

I find it odd how this topic of Nintendo keeps comming up and how it is started by those that like/love Nintendo, but see trouble ahead. You do not see this with any other system/company despite there problems.

Also if anyone is interested their was an very good non-fanperson article in a past issue of Business 2.0, their was a shark on the cover. Perhaps if we as a community want to really get to the bottom of this debate we either need a time machine or to look at how the business community sees Nintendo now and their non-fanperson views.

[Raedon]

Say what you will about Nintendo, but it's hard to find any other videogame company that inspires the same kind of emotional reaction the big N does.

Obviously. no one has bashed Nintendo in any way. Their business practices and maybe a controller (which I actually liked except for the quick death issue) yet people feel they need to defend the big N. Like a big brother would a little sister if she was being picked on.

This was a post looking at why I felt nintendo would not have a console on the market after the "next" one..

I was really looking for someone to show how Nintendo could survive in a 3 console market, and have only got critiques on my theory for the downfall..

And I think FF3 along with Super Metroid were where Nintendo jumped the shark.

RPG and fighting games run the gaming market.. you guys and girls may not play them, but the numbers do not lie. In Japan or the US.. RPG and vs. fighting were big on the PSX and not the N64. That changed everything, the console landscape was altered after FF7 came out.. I don't think anyone here can think of a way to debate that, and that was a Square accurance.

Now don't even get me started on Konami, Namco, Rockstar games.. etc..

[sisko]

No flagship exlusives from Square-Enix? What about Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles?

I highly disagree with the statement that "Square made the SNES." The statement is not only short-sighted but also false. In my opinion, the huge library and excellent first party games did (Super Mario World, Mario Kart, Kirby's, Super Metroid, etc etc)

As for the DVD player, I suppose that could be a downfall, but is it really? The PS2 and XBox have very poor quality players. Sure they work, but that's about it. You're better off spending the extra $50+ getting a standalone player.

As for the MD, it never really caught on as much as it did in Japan. It's a shame though, I really love my MD.

The N64 also had many other games that are worth playing other than in house games: what about Megaman 64, Harvestmoon, Rogue Squadron, etc etc?

The controllers are always a fickle thing. What one person loves, another hates. You may not like it, but it doesn't mean I don't (I do like it). This can be said for any controller on any system. Besides, if you didn't like it, you could have always bought a third party variant that does the same exact thing.

Treating online gaming like a fad may have been a fatal flaw (I'm not an online gamer, read: I don't care about it one way or the other), but they still have plenty of time to fix this.

And for the record, I enjoyed both Wind Waker and GTA, and grew up during the SNES age.

I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, in fact I own all three consoles like a lot of people here. I just think your "argument" is full of unjust bias, incorrect generalizations, and factual errors.

[YoshiM]

Bah, I don't go by history to determine the fall of big game companies. I use the "4 system" method. Note, this is for US home consoles only and NOT handhelds or old "Pong" style systems:

Atari: VCS/2600, 5200, 7800, Jaguar (the CD was an accessory and not a console in and of itself)---dead & now is just a name

Hey! You left out the XEGS. Even if you're excluding computers, the XEGS is a cartridge game system.


Sega: Master System, Genesis (CD & 32X were accessories), Saturn, Dreamcast---dead and now is platform agnostic.

and now Nintendo: NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube---what will the future hold...dun..dun..DUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNN

Hey! You left out Virtual Boy (as did Raedon in his argument - most people casting off Nintendo use the VB failure to make a point). You're not going to call that a handheld, are you?

Interesting theory though.

Huh? ARRGGHHH!NOOOOOOOO! My theory, shot to hell by a pastel computer that thinks its a game system and a device that's a pain in the eyes (and a pain a couple feet lower and behind).

Curses!

[aaron_157]

I think the main failure on Nintendo's part is that they aren't "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak. I mean, you can point out Eternal Darkness and your other M-rated games all day long, but they don't have a cash-cow like GTA. I don't even care for the series but you can't deny it's presence and influence over the past few years.

And those mini-discs: they're nice and cute, but they only hold 1.5 Gigs. That means you're not going to see a lot of huge RPGs and other massive games on them (GTA, Morrowind, etc.).

The only proper analogy I can think of for Nintendo is that of a stubborn dictator overthworn in a coup. They might not be number 1 any more, but they'll be damned if they don't act like it.

The N64 was a pretty big piece of shit in my opinion, outside of Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and a few others. I also found it hilarious how Nintendo justified selling Rare by saying "they accounted for less than 1% of our total profits over the last year." Yeah, of course they did, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T RELEASE A GAME THAT YEAR, OR EVEN THE YEAR BEFORE.

Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo, and the NES got me hooked on playing games, but at the same time this whole approach they're taking towards everything lately (where gimmicky pieces of shit like the ereader are supposed to get us all giddy) has me almost rooting for their fall.

Ok why would someone want to play gta3 on a console anyways, that game sux using a dual-shock compared to the PC verion and using a mouse, that game looks horrible on the ps2's chip set too , my junk Pentium 2 machine has more power than my ps2 which my friends refer to as Sony's "Paperweight Station 2".

Its sad people cant over look blood, violence and ratings to realize what makes a video game is the Game Play, not eye candy and hype.

[aaron_157]

And those mini-discs: they're nice and cute, but they only hold 1.5 Gigs. That means you're not going to see a lot of huge RPGs and other massive games on them (GTA, Morrowind, etc.)

Visit a site like xbox-scene.com and check out the forum.. they have a thread that shows the size of current games for the XBOX.

I was shocked to find out that both GTA and Vice city are about 1GB big and less!

In fact, a lot of XBOX games are less than 1GB big!

So the size of the disc fight in a moot point.
Excuse the computer geek in me. But why would anyone assume gta3 and vice city wouldnt fit on the GC mini dvd's. Those games werent released on dvd for a PC why??? Because those games dont require the 6 GB's of room a dvd has. Like it or not Xbox and PS2 games, Alot of the games you are playing are infact on a single CD not DVD. Infact most all early PS2 games were put on CD's because it was cheaper and the didnt need the extra space. So noone bitch about the GC disc being to small in both physical size and digital.

[sisko]

And those mini-discs: they're nice and cute, but they only hold 1.5 Gigs. That means you're not going to see a lot of huge RPGs and other massive games on them (GTA, Morrowind, etc.)

Visit a site like xbox-scene.com and check out the forum.. they have a thread that shows the size of current games for the XBOX.

I was shocked to find out that both GTA and Vice city are about 1GB big and less!

In fact, a lot of XBOX games are less than 1GB big!

So the size of the disc fight in a moot point.
Excuse the computer geek in me. But why would anyone assume gta3 and vice city wouldnt fit on the GC mini dvd's. Those games werent released on dvd for a PC why??? Because those games dont require the 6 GB's of room a dvd has. Like it or not Xbox and PS2 games, Alot of the games you are playing are infact on a single CD not DVD. Infact most all early PS2 games were put on CD's because it was cheaper and the didnt need the extra space. So noone bitch about the GC disc being to small in both physical size and digital.

You're not enough of a computer geek. DVD's only hold 4.7G There are quite a few games that are bigger than 1.5G. Xenosaga, the Armored Core series, etc etc.

As stated before, the controller is a personal preference, and the game looks pretty dang good but if you don't like it well..... its sad people can't overlook graphics to realize what makes a video game is the game play, not the eye candy and hype.

*stamps FANBOY on your forehead*

[Blendo75]

These were the future parents and geeks who played GTA III: Vice City, but not Zelda:WW.

Why do you think it has to be one or the other? Am I the only one who played, enjoyed and finished both of these games? Can I not have it both ways??? I admit, though that GTA III was a "fresher" experience than Wind Waker. But Wind Waker held my interest even more than Metroid Prime did.

It was an anology.. could have said, "FF-X not Zelda" or, "Metal Gear not Sunshine" same thing

Oh come on now you're splitting hairs. I've played all those games and more. I'm not the only person with a Cube and a PS2. People who really want to play the Nintendo exlusives are going to buy a Nintendo console. I'm 28 and I dont get embarassed playing "kiddie" games. In fact Nintendo has been judged too harshly in this manner, ever since the ESRB ratings really took off Nintendo has had NO problem having "adult" games on the Gamecube. You made a really good point about the no-blood-in-MK fiasco, but that was before the ESRB was formed (??) or taken seriously (MK may not have been rated at all) and Nintendo was really worried about a bad parental reaction, there was really no way to rate a game for T for Teens at the time so content was softened across the board (on the SNES). Now that the industry is more regulated Nintendo is fine with things like that. I really think they are not the prudes they're made out to be, they're just concerned about keeping their family-friendly image. In America that's pretty damn important! But at the time it hurt their rep bad, like you said, and it has really stuck with them. But I understand why they did it.

[IntvGene]

I think that it is Nintendo's attitude that is killing them the most. They seem to just think that lowering the price will make people buy their system. Frankly, the controller design and lack of third-party games has kept me off of their current and previous systems. I think Nintendo will make another system to try and get the jump on Sony and Microsoft, but I agree that their days are numbered. While I enjoy the original Mario Kart, I have no interest in seeing how Nintendo has tweaked the game in their latest release. It seems like they are stuck in Repeat mode... new Metroid game, new Star Wars game, new Mario Kart game... I feel like it is 1992 all over again.

It's funny, because I think that the Big N is a huge soft spot in many gamers hearts these days, maybe like the Atari and Intellivision was for my generation. Don't diss them without feeling the backlash. :)

[hydr0x]

I think that it is Nintendo's attitude that is killing them the most. They seem to just think that lowering the price will make people buy their system.


Heeellllooooo??? THEY ARE RIGHT, just look at the sales, at the store i'm working at we are selling at least twice as many cubes as ps2!! i'd say the ratio is 12:5:1 (gc:ps2:xbox) at the moment

[esquire]

And those mini-discs: they're nice and cute, but they only hold 1.5 Gigs. That means you're not going to see a lot of huge RPGs and other massive games on them (GTA, Morrowind, etc.)

Visit a site like xbox-scene.com and check out the forum.. they have a thread that shows the size of current games for the XBOX.

I was shocked to find out that both GTA and Vice city are about 1GB big and less!

In fact, a lot of XBOX games are less than 1GB big!

So the size of the disc fight in a moot point.
Excuse the computer geek in me. But why would anyone assume gta3 and vice city wouldnt fit on the GC mini dvd's. Those games werent released on dvd for a PC why??? Because those games dont require the 6 GB's of room a dvd has. Like it or not Xbox and PS2 games, Alot of the games you are playing are infact on a single CD not DVD. Infact most all early PS2 games were put on CD's because it was cheaper and the didnt need the extra space. So noone bitch about the GC disc being to small in both physical size and digital.

You use an incorrect analogy. Most (99%) PC games do not play directly from the CD. They install the game onto your hard drive. I do not have GTAIII: Vice City, but I am sure that it installs more than 650-700 MB of files onto your hard drive. Most game installs nowadays are at least 1-2 GB. The reason the PC software companies can fit more onto a CD is obvious, compression software. Also, as stated earlier, standard DVDs only hold 4.7 GB of data, not 6GB. However, if the dvd is dual layered, like MGS 2 Substance, it can hold more.

[hezeuschrist]

Wow, this thread exploded like tubgirls anus.

Back to my point that it could so easily go both ways. Nintendo is starting to get a bigger userbase now with the cheap console, and if they put together a fucking awesome lineup (including Mario, simply for the name) for their next launch, and market a simply more mature looking console... everything will change.

They could release the GameCube 2 aka BestyCube that will have fluffy bunny ears and wets itself in the cutest way. It'll come complete with an accessory bottle and replacement diapers. Then yes, it'll be the end of Nintendo.

Or, they could release the Nintendo Felon. It'll kick you in the nuts and rape your dog if you aren't paying close enough attention to it, and you might come back home to find your cat dead at the teeth of the console, or a message on your answering machine saying your console got arrested for beating up old people. Then, make it as big as a computer tower and stupid americans will think bigger is better (Xbox anybody?), and Nintendo will have all the 8 year olds bragging about the black eye they got while playing Slumber Party Massacre 12.

It's 1000% about image. The quality of the games is definitely not an issue, Nintendo has proven themselves time and again this generation, and will continue to do so. If they market a PS2, or god forbid Xbox-sized console that will play GameCube games, a less toy-looking controller (but be backwards compatable with the Gcube controllers) and a violent mature flagship title (ala Halo) at release, it wont even be a competition. Well, between Sony and Nintendo yeah, but Microsoft will be blow outta the water.

[Raedon]

I think that it is Nintendo's attitude that is killing them the most. They seem to just think that lowering the price will make people buy their system.


Heeellllooooo??? THEY ARE RIGHT, just look at the sales, at the store i'm working at we are selling at least twice as many cubes as ps2!! i'd say the ratio is 12:5:1 (gc:ps2:xbox) at the moment

Nintendo posted their first ever loss sense they became a tradeable stock last quarter. That is with GBA sales.. that is with pokemon.. that is with wind waker. Now the gamestop where I haunt has sold more GC's lately, but the numbers on the PS2 are amazing, the "war" was lost over a year ago for this round.

Nintendo didn't listen to the gamers.. Nintendo didn't listen to complaints from 3rd party developers.. Nintendo is now completely ignoring the online market. yes, I know most of you don't even have a computer worth a damn and don't play games online, but many do. Esp. the sports people.. EA being only online on PS2.. big deal to someone out there, though X-Box Live does it better me thinks.

[Blendo75]

...Nintendo will have all the 8 year olds bragging about the black eye they got while playing Slumber Party Massacre 12.
It's 1000% about image. .

It's worse than you think. Just the other day I was visiting my cousins and their 6 year old son was talking about what video game system he wanted for x-mas, they currently have an N64. His favorite game is Rogue Squadron. He wants an X-Box. I told him to get a Gamecube, since the Rogue Squadron on the Cube would blow his little mind. What did he say to me? Take a wild guess.

"Gamecube is for little kids"

He is 6 years old.

He is 6 years old.

HE IS 6 YEARS OLD.

[portnoyd]

Sony still sells and manufactures mini-disc players. Can't say the same for the Virtual Boy ;).

Hey, I know more Virtual Boy owners than Minidisc owners ;)

dave

Dave, CD's might rule in North America, but Japan is full of mini-disc. In fact, there is more mini-disc in Japan than CD's for sale! EVERYONE listens only to mini disc!

*drags over the dead horse, starts flogging it*

Well, I'm just speaking from the US market. Japan is a completely different market (hence why the XBox was/is? on life support), as is the Euro market.

Also makes you wonder why the MD didn't become popular, or why it didn't get a bigger push if it's huge in Japan?

And yeah, it's the image thing. It's like high school mentality, only want to hang with the cool kids. Making the standard GC color purple was not a smart idea! The best way for NOA to turn it around is to launch the system with the next GTAIII big hit game flagship. Do what it takes, buy it, make a deal in the publisher's huge favor... whatever.

dave

[hezeuschrist]

...Nintendo will have all the 8 year olds bragging about the black eye they got while playing Slumber Party Massacre 12.
It's 1000% about image. .

It's worse than you think. Just the other day I was visiting my cousins and their 6 year old son was talking about what video game system he wanted for x-mas, they currently have an N64. His favorite game is Rogue Squadron. He wants an X-Box. I told him to get a Gamecube, since the Rogue Squadron on the Cube would blow his little mind. What did he say to me? Take a wild guess.

"Gamecube is for little kids"

He is 6 years old.

He is 6 years old.

HE IS 6 YEARS OLD.

Exactly. Unless I hear news reports of a serial rapist Nintendo console, I don't think they have much of a chance.

[WiseSalesman]

I have to second this. When I think of controllers of recent years that just DON'T feel right, The N64 is the first one that comes to mind. Same as Flack, I never had "hand cramps" before extensive use of my N64 controllers.

Are you kidding?

The only controllers that have eventually caused physical pain to my hands:
Genesis (I hate that damn controller)
Saturn
Dreamcast

hmm...never noticed they were all from sega systems till I listed them that way.

Anyway, i stand by my belief. I also still find the N64 controller (as well as it's gamecube evolution) to be the most comfortable and intuitive controller for anything requiring me to manipulate a character in a fully 3D environment. What current controller do I think is the worst for this? the PS controller. The analog stick is just in a position that is too uncomfortable, as it's designed for my thumb to fall on the dpad instead.

[hezeuschrist]

I never had a problem with the N64 controllers, but the Dreamcast often times really kicked my ass. Can't say I was ever much of a fan of the Genesis controller either, but the Saturn always worked for me just fine.

[hydr0x]

I think that it is Nintendo's attitude that is killing them the most. They seem to just think that lowering the price will make people buy their system.


Heeellllooooo??? THEY ARE RIGHT, just look at the sales, at the store i'm working at we are selling at least twice as many cubes as ps2!! i'd say the ratio is 12:5:1 (gc:ps2:xbox) at the moment

Nintendo posted their first ever loss sense they became a tradeable stock last quarter. That is with GBA sales.. that is with pokemon.. that is with wind waker. Now the gamestop where I haunt has sold more GC's lately, but the numbers on the PS2 are amazing, the "war" was lost over a year ago for this round.

Nintendo didn't listen to the gamers.. Nintendo didn't listen to complaints from 3rd party developers.. Nintendo is now completely ignoring the online market. yes, I know most of you don't even have a computer worth a damn and don't play games online, but many do. Esp. the sports people.. EA being only online on PS2.. big deal to someone out there, though X-Box Live does it better me thinks.

omg you are ignoring facts completly, that loss was BEFORE the price drop and it was because they already has shipped too many consoles and didn't sell many for a few month (<< Nintendo didn't sell many, that's not the same as there weren't many sold, nintendo's selling is not the same as the retailers sales), FACT IS: the gamecube is selling like there's no tomorrow right now, even the people still buying ps2s are considering buying a cube, during the last two weeks we didn't have a single customer who came into the store, grabbed an ps2 or xbox and bought it, that's what they are doing with the cube right now, we have real problems to get enough cubes, that's how quick we are selling them right now, everyone who hasn't got one and is into gaming is buying it at the moment

[IntvGene]

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=5791

"I don't doubt that the price cut to $99 will help Nintendo sell GameCubes in the short term, over the next six to nine months, and raise revenues. I do question whether the price cut will help Nintendo to regain the number two position. Also, what will be the long term cost of the price cut? A 33 percent price cut will cut into Nintendo's profit margins. And when it wants another shipment boost, will it cut prices again? And cut into profit margins again?"

My problem is that they are not looking at the root of the problem, which I think is mainly from a lack of third-party titles (and somewhat the online gaming issue). Just reducing the price will sell consoles, but at what cost? And if people buy a GC, and then Nintendo's new project next year makes the GC obselete (I am not saying it will), you'll have people saying "why the hell did I buy a GC?".

I still think that the perception of the company is at work here. There are many people that think that the GC is for kids, I don't know what they can do to shake that, but they HAVE TO. They can't compete with Microsoft and Sony by losing those customers from that perceived image.

To me, they've already lost this console race, their only hope is making a superior, well-supported console in the future.

[Captain Wrong]

*sprays fanboy repelant*


I think that it is Nintendo's attitude that is killing them the most. They seem to just think that lowering the price will make people buy their system. Frankly, the controller design and lack of third-party games has kept me off of their current and previous systems. I think Nintendo will make another system to try and get the jump on Sony and Microsoft, but I agree that their days are numbered. While I enjoy the original Mario Kart, I have no interest in seeing how Nintendo has tweaked the game in their latest release. It seems like they are stuck in Repeat mode... new Metroid game, new Star Wars game, new Mario Kart game... I feel like it is 1992 all over again.

Yep. I agree with this 100%. All the people I know who own or are interested in videogames have no intereste in Nintendo for EXACTLY the reasons you are talking about. The general opinion is "I already bought a SuperNintendo, I want something new."


It's funny, because I think that the Big N is a huge soft spot in many gamers hearts these days, maybe like the Atari and Intellivision was for my generation. Don't diss them without feeling the backlash. :)

Yeah, but the Atari generation won't rip your head off if you dare suggest Atari made some stupid decisions.

[Mayhem]

Yep. I agree with this 100%. All the people I know who own or are interested in videogames have no intereste in Nintendo for EXACTLY the reasons you are talking about. The general opinion is "I already bought a SuperNintendo, I want something new."

So why do people still buy the latest GTA, Tomb Raider, Madden etc franchises when they come out? After all, they're pretty much the same as the ones before :roll:

[buttasuperb]

NES = awesome
SNES = mega awesome
N64 = meh
GC = meh
GBA = awesome

[Sotenga]

NES = awesome
SNES = mega awesome
N64 = meh
GC = meh
GBA = awesome

I agree, even though I'd also call the NES mega-awesome. Hey, it was my first console ever. I still play it to this day. :)

Yeah, the N64 was pretty "meh." The Gamecube is better, though. There are quite a few items on my Christmas list that are GC games. Actually, almost all my items are games. Those that aren't are music albums.

[Ed Oscuro]

Quite. I've got a hard, er, a soft spot in my heart for the N64, but it didn't have nearly as many good titles as I would've liked.

GameCube? I can barely list twelve titles for the system, and I own one. I have to admit one of them is the budget release of Star Soldier, which I don't believe is coming out over here.

[NvrMore]

Nintendo posted their first ever loss sense they became a tradeable stock last quarter. That is with GBA sales.. that is with pokemon.. that is with wind waker.

Ok since you seem keen to skate over the wider picture for the sake of perpetrating the bash-boy thing..

The entire gaming market is taking a pretty rough hit at the moment, meaning that even the forerunners in the market are taking a battering.

You make point of N taking a loss in the market despite their GBA and franchise successes. Now setting aside the fact that the losses were largely due to currency conversion losses incurred by a non too healthy dollar.

Why skip over the losses Sony are taking at the moment, not only from their non-gaming divisions but also the heavy losses incurred by their gaming division - despite having the market leading home console, their high sales and their considerable software licencing revenue from their numerous 3rd party developers.

Likewise, why skip over the billions lost by MS's Xbox and it's live service, despite it's considerable effort to gain foothold in the gaming market. Losses which place the company under increasing pressure from it's share holders.

Why not make note of the numerous publishers cutting their sales forecasts and posting losses in the tens of millions, driving many to cut title development and pushing many publishers and developers close to or over their limit.

They're all defendable points with numerous valid counter arguments, especially with regard to my first point but that's really not the issue.. why skip over all that and focus on using such a point as a central argument in a thread set up to critisise a company if not for the simple reason of pointless bashing.


Nintendo didn't listen to complaints from 3rd party developers..

Excuse me, pardon? not listening to 3rd party developers?.

Unlike the N64 the GC is great to develop for, N really worked that sys toward ease of development and put out some great gear to work with. They took on board the developers critisisms and concerns and worked to create a more development friendly platform.

Likewise, N have been working closely with 3rd party's towards development of titles and have even assised in the production of additional features/extras to complement software releases.

3rd party's frequently stated their desire for N to drop the price of the sys to a more marketable price point.. hey there it is. believe it or not it there was more to that price drop than just a passing whim.

(likewise to support the point of creating a thread of bashing for bashing's sake, why not consider the poor state of the PS2's initial DK's which caused more than just a few headaches for the poor sods using them - again a defendable point, but it does highlight the point that you're focussing issues on something just for the sake of bashing it)



Nintendo is now completely ignoring the online market.

As previously addresses, the online market is far from financially viable in it's present state and it currently used as an expensive and (proportionally) niche extra.

Had N invested heavily in online gaming, you would likely be using it as a reason to bash them for the financial losses it would be incurring.

Anyone want to create a bashing topic other than the bi-weekly N-bash next time. Doesn't have to be a console manufacturer, Square perhaps, Infogrammes, EA.. marshmallows even - pinks versus whites, yeah! one colour definately tastes better and is more mature than the other.

[jonjandran]

RPG and fighting games run the gaming market.. you guys and girls may not play them, but the numbers do not lie. In Japan or the US.. RPG and vs. fighting were big on the PSX and not the N64. ..


If you look at what games sell millions and millions , I would have to say that Sports games factor in on what makes or breaks a system.

[Kevin Listwan]

Excuse me, pardon? not listening to 3rd party developers?.

Unlike the N64 the GC is great to develop for, N really worked that sys toward ease of development and put out some great gear to work with. They took on board the developers critisisms and concerns and worked to create a more development friendly platform.


Where did you get this info from? This is not what the business press has said about what third party companys think about working with Nintendo.

[ubersaurus]

RPG and fighting games run the gaming market.. you guys and girls may not play them, but the numbers do not lie. In Japan or the US.. RPG and vs. fighting were big on the PSX and not the N64. ..


If you look at what games sell millions and millions , I would have to say that Sports games factor in on what makes or breaks a system.

No kidding. Fighting games sure as HELL aren't a major selling portion of consoles unless you're talkin like, the neo geo. 2D fighters don't sell well anymore, and 3d fighters are hit and miss, and weren't really huge (outside of Tekken) in the PS1-Saturn-N64 days. And RPGs sell...if they've got Square's logo on em.

[dr mario kart]

I personally dont mind the decisions Nintendo is making. If I want to play online games or sports games or whatnot, then I'll get a ps2 or an xbox. I certainly dont have a problem with a person or a company wanting to do its own thing, being itself, and not whoring itself out. Granted, its not good for business, but I'll enjoy nintendo while its around. The only two systems I own are a SNES and a Cube, I only play a few games, and they are played religiously. I dont have a problem with focusing on first party games. It doesnt quite stand out if you release a game on all existing systems. In fact, I dont have a single 3rd party console game, because a lot of them are later released on the PC. I do however dislike that the cube doesnt have a strong rpg showing.

I know thats an extreme minority position.

[aaron_157]

Excuse me, pardon? not listening to 3rd party developers?.

Unlike the N64 the GC is great to develop for, N really worked that sys toward ease of development and put out some great gear to work with. They took on board the developers critisisms and concerns and worked to create a more development friendly platform.


Where did you get this info from? This is not what the business press has said about what third party companys think about working with Nintendo.
I know I read this info In most gaming magazines shortly after the GC came out, so I believe it.

[Raedon]

So, anyone want to step up with their own theory as to why Nintendo will not be in the console biz after Gamecube 2 ? Or do you all think they will just drift along making mario sunshine on nextgen handhelds and be able to afford the cost of engineering a full console?

[hezeuschrist]

So, anyone want to step up with their own theory as to why Nintendo will not be in the console biz after Gamecube 2 ? Or do you all think they will just drift along making mario sunshine on nextgen handhelds and be able to afford the cost of engineering a full console?

Why are you so bent on hearing why people think Nintendo will fail? Even if it comes to pass, it sucks for everyone.

[jonjandran]

Why are you so bent on hearing why people think Nintendo will fail? Even if it comes to pass, it sucks for everyone.

That's why this is a Forum , to discuss things. :roll:

[Raedon]

Why are you so bent on hearing why people think Nintendo will fail? Even if it comes to pass, it sucks for everyone.

Because I like to discuss the current standing of a console maker in something I'm a fanatic collector of.. video games.. did you need to ask lol..

I think if Nintendo stops making my fav. mascot games of all time, yes.. we all loose.

[Dr. Morbis]

For Nintendo's next home console to be its last, one of two things would subsequently happen:

A) They would become a third party developer like their friends at Sega, or

B) They would refuse to put Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, etc on other home consoles, deciding to financially implode and disappear off the map.

Somehow, I don't see A) happening. Nintendo is a VERY stubborn company.

My bold predictions: Nintendo will fail to produce a 'cool'/'adult oriented' console to shake the kiddie image... Console will flop... Nintendo will refocus all resources on portables... PSP will (eventually) put N's portables in second place using the same highly successful tactics that they used with the ps1 and 2. Then we will witness either A or B above.

Face it, Nintendo either doesn't know the market, or doesn't care. Or maybe they will seek refuge in their native Japan and say 'to hell with America'.

Well, all this wild specualtion has been fun...

[Zubiac666]

A) They would become a third party developer like their friends at Sega, or

B) They would refuse to put Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, etc on other home consoles, deciding to financially implode and disappear off the map.



nothing of these will happen in near future
You know that Nintendo's nest egg is even bigger than Sony's?
Nintendo had it's FIRST loss in history (and this loss is equated with the huge GC sales after price-drop)
I hope they will stay....or I'll give up gaming
GO NiNTENDO GO
:band:

[Kevin Listwan]

Kevin Listwan wrote:
Quote:
Excuse me, pardon? not listening to 3rd party developers?.

Unlike the N64 the GC is great to develop for, N really worked that sys toward ease of development and put out some great gear to work with. They took on board the developers critisisms and concerns and worked to create a more development friendly platform.



Where did you get this info from? This is not what the business press has said about what third party companys think about working with Nintendo.

I know I read this info In most gaming magazines shortly after the GC came out, so I believe it.



For one I give more stock to business publications than gaming magazines, there are invested interests in what is said. Also perhaps company’s were saying this because they had an interest in Nintendo putting a good face forward since they also wanted to see Nintendo succeed since they were making games for the company and at the time know one knew what the future would hold for Nintendo. Best just to smile and nod your head, wait till latter to complain when there is less to lose.

see link for non-gaming article on Nintendo, "Is Nintendo Playing the Wrong Game?"
http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,50984,00.html

[Aswald]

Part of Nintendo's downfall came about in the 1980s, when they held 90% of the market with the NES.

They became rather arrogant, and their dealings with third-party companies became notoriously harsh in too many cases.

As a result, the moment a viable alternative came along- first, the Sega Genesis, later the Sony Playstation- the hold they had on the market ("we're the only game in town") vanished, and they found out that companies have long memories, and not a whole lot of forgiveness.

[Hep038]

Hydrox you said the ratio was 12:5:1 at the moment. But you then posted that you have not sold a Xbox or ps2 in the past few weeks? :o

Also everyone is getting on to Radon for bashing, but he also asked people to post their ideas about how Nintendo could turn it around. That does not sound like a basher, just someone asking qusetions to counter his opinion. Most bashers dont ask for your ideas on how they could be wrong.