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[supahzonik]

join my uionion :band: on classic gaming ports onto gba. go to petitionsonline.com

[zmweasel]

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[Ed Oscuro]

Certainly showing off our "two minute attention spans" if we're tired of this argument :)

Well, I just like this sort of topic, you know, BASHING PEOPLE'S FACES IN and stuff. I haven't been bored at all, so... ;D

What interesting times we live in. o_O

[ManekiNeko]

I honestly don't feel that the Nintendo DS will be a financial success. However, if it's a hit with gamers, that's really all that matters. Just look at the Dreamcast. Six months before THAT was released, did anyone honestly think that it would become the underground favorite that it is today? Hell no. I know I thought it was going to suck, but ultimately I was proven wrong. Many of you may be proven wrong about the Nintendo DS as well.

Here's what Nintendo needs to do to make the DS succeed, at least in the eyes of serious video game players. They'll need to pack some serious hardware into this unit... something that's capable of keeping both screens filled with dynamic artwork without slowing down. Dual processors may be necessary to make the dual screen design work. I was thinking that since the iQue player in China seems to be fairly powerful but also extremely inexpensive, they should probably use that. It's compatible with the N64, making ports from that system a breeze, and since the N64 is primarily a 3D system, it'll be a cinch to create games with multiple camera angles.

I can't imagine the Nintendo DS being a commercial success. But at the same time, it doesn't have to suck. Think about this for a while... what's the biggest complaint you hear about today's games? That's right, the camera angles are terrible. Now think of what would happen if you could make a 3D game with both a behind the player view AND an overhead view all at the same time. Jumping from one platform to the next would no longer be frustrating and cumbersome, but fun and intuitive, the way it's supposed to be. If one camera angle doesn't work for you, it'll simply be a matter of looking at the other screen, rather than awkwardly aiming the camera yourself or crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.

I was skeptical before, but I'm starting to understand the purpose of the Nintendo DS. The system really could work, if Nintendo gives it the right processors, and if the players are willing to give it a chance.

JR

[Ed Oscuro]

Here's what Nintendo needs to do to make the DS succeed, at least in the eyes of serious video game players. They'll need to pack some serious hardware into this unit... something that's capable of keeping both screens filled with dynamic artwork without slowing down.

Unfortunately, you've already passed the bounds Nintendo set. This machine's gonna have dual ARM processors, possibly the same model used in the GBA (!) and 128MByte cartridges...so...

[hezeuschrist]

I don't doubt that the DS will be interesting to the hardcore, but would you rather have this thing that may potentially only have a few dozen games, or would you like to see Nintendo take back some ground in the console market?

It's not even about money, they've got plenty of it. It's about how the public views them and getting them onboard for the next system.

[SoulBlazer]

Debate is okay. Heck, I'm sure Zach posted this thread half for that reason. As long as we're carefull that the debate stays that way and not get into a name calling, thread locking, situation. :)

The European price can't be THAT far off from North America.....looking at past systems, and doing currency conversions, Europe seems to be only about $50-100 higher.

And haze is right -- the games that come out for the system will make or break it.

[Duncan]

Just had a couple of thoughts come to mind; maybe there is more reasoning behind the DS than we're currently seeing.

Point 1:

Did anyone consider that the sole reason for a second processor might be to remove the problem we've always had with multiplayer Game Boy titles?

What I mean is that, in standard single-player use, you'd only be running on one of the system's two processor sets. Now say you want to link up with someone else...preferably, this would be a wireless process (like Bluetooth or something similar). At that point, the second processor set kicks in and begins constantly managing the connection.

In addition, having two processors in the same unit might allow one DS console to provide a complete set of features for the other player if they don't have the cartridge (or disc, or whatever) that's needed to play against someone else. I'm sure we're all familiar with how badly most GBA games are restricted when both players don't have the proper cartridge (Advance Wars and Mario Kart come instantly to mind).

Point 2:

Isn't it entirely possible that the DS is intended to be both a portable and console unit? They did say it wasn't their answer to the PSP - maybe it's their answer to the PSone...? Possibly something like a docking station that hooks to a TV set? Who knows?

I'm still quite wary of the whole thing, but I'm hoping against hope that Nintendo knows what they're doing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Just had a couple of thoughts come to mind; maybe there is more reasoning behind the DS than we're currently seeing.

Point 1:

Did anyone consider that the sole reason for a second processor might be to remove the problem we've always had with multiplayer Game Boy titles?

...having two processors in the same unit might allow one DS console to provide a complete set of features for the other player if they don't have the cartridge (or disc, or whatever) that's needed to play against someone else. I'm sure we're all familiar with how badly most GBA games are restricted when both players don't have the proper cartridge (Advance Wars and Mario Kart come instantly to mind).

It doesn't work that way. Now, lol, I haven't seen a GBA in multiplayer, but I don't think Nintendo will harness that second CPU in a GBA MP game, and here's why:

The reason the GBA works poorly when you've got only one cartridge (assuming you can do this from what you've written) is that the host system (with the cart inserted) has to send all the game data being used to the other unit. New processor or not, the DS would have to have more bandwidth available while connected, which isn't likely just because of how the old GBA games are set up...the game itself probably has to send the data, the GBA itself isn't "intelligent" enough to do that, and the old GBA games have to be highly tuned to even play in MP. As a result, the game won't send more data than it does now.

Now let's take it a step further. If you've got the ability for two DS systems with one cartridge to play via link, you're going to need yet more bandwidth and more system memory (work RAM), since we've seen how Nintendo is planning 128MB software cartridges. Obviously all that data isn't loaded at once, but enough data must be sent to keep the main processor happy. Again, the biggest issue is direct bandwidth...the second CPU just slows the process of getting data from point A to B down.

Improvements to this setup would mean people don't feel they have to buy a copy of X game to play with their friends...Nintendo's effort, if successful, would result in poorer sales of their game software. I don't think so!

In summary...if the DS can play GBA games, but each processor is the same as found in the GBA, that second processor WILL remain unused. People have been going into assembly language...you can't magically configure the software cartridges to work on two. Unless they've got some API stuff hidden in the GBA that I never heard of, this isn't going to happen.

[Ed Oscuro]

Also, you can bet this thing isn't a "docking station" that hooks into your TV. No docking station or Direct-to-TV device warrants Nintendo shelling out enough cash for two screens.

[zmweasel]

N/A

[hezeuschrist]

Point 2:

Isn't it entirely possible that the DS is intended to be both a portable and console unit? They did say it wasn't their answer to the PSP - maybe it's their answer to the PSone...? Possibly something like a docking station that hooks to a TV set? Who knows?

I'm still quite wary of the whole thing, but I'm hoping against hope that Nintendo knows what they're doing.

Thats what I was thinking too, it's meant to be both. I doubt it'll have a docking station for the reasons mentioned above, but I'm betting it'll be like an old tabletop. That could bank some sales on nostalgia alone ;)

[Ed Oscuro]

In other words, the DS could quite literally be a couple of GBAs kludged together. I'm tinglier than ever!

Did somebody say Tingle?

Heh.

A while back I thought a countertop GB would be nice...in an alternate reality. If they want to throw out a countertop GB with a big screen, that's nice, but this DS certainly isn't that.

[NvrMore]

Guys.. this is a retrogaming message board, couldn't you have pulled up an animated GIF of PONG..


This'll be my final reply, which unfortunately means giving you the last word, as we've gone into the Insult Pong zone, and I would hate to see this thread locked.

Ok, I choose..

"Incongruous"

Bad joke, but on the subject of discussional decline it's got to end somewhere, if only because I can't for the life of me argue the merits and shortcommings of a device I know so little about. As much as I like a running discussion, there's a limit after which it's just asinine


On a side note, a few more details emerged from within Japan. First, N have 3 games in development for the device, one of which is a game called "buzz" which is being headed by Miyamoto.

Also, the device will be using an ARM9 and ARM7 as processor and sub. Befenicial for backward compatibility and price. Reliable and very solid processors, but I'm not sure how the mix will impact on the design and performance - dubious.

Dev kits are heading out to developers around May time (read: after E3), and the launch retail price is set at about 20,000 Yen (£100/150eu/f*ck knows how many $, which always seems to be a hat number).

[Keir]

Funny thing, I only just heard about the DS today.

In ten years this is going to be a great collectable. I bet collecting all 14 games will be a blast. ;)

Is it a bad business decision for Nintendo? Will it compete with the PSP? I really don't care, but frankly I wish more companies would do stuff like this instead of putting out the same old crap only (sometimes) slightly better.

[Achika]

the launch retail price is set at about 20,000 Yen (£100/150eu/f*ck knows how many $, which always seems to be a hat number).

$189.49 via xe.com. However, that will probably be bumped up to $199 or down (unlikely) to $149


Hmmm, I'd say that's about the same as the 'speculated' US price of the PSP. :hmm:

[YoshiM]

What's really interesting (and not sure if it was covered-I don't remember it being covered) is that Nintendo is planning to release it this year yet no one has dev kits (supposedly). Unless the Big N has been secretly slaving away at launch titles either this system is gonna have squat for games (which will not help at all) or this announcement was just a ploy to try and steal some of the wind from Sony's sails on the PSP. Kinda of a "Oh...oh yeah? Well WE'RE coming out with a NEW handheld and andand it's got um, TWO screens. And it goes to 11."

Personally I think it's the latter. What better way to thwart a newcomer to the handheld turf by declaring a new device that "would change gaming the way we know it". Nintendo is the king of the handheld market, trouncing all who opposed them so making an announcement on anything for handheld is going to get people to take their attention off the PSP. The smoke and mirrors may be enough to derail the PSP hype machine enough to not make it look like a solid profitable platform, at least from the get go. This way Nintendo could let the DS slip to 2005, which will give them time to build up a software library.

Here's another thought for the conspiracy theorists: what if the DS is vaporware? An announcement to shake Sony up. Granted if this was the approach Nintendo was going for I could have thought up something better than two screens.

[kai123]

I still think it is the games that matter and I don't give a damn what industry insiders have to say. If it has good games I am there. Same goes with the PSP.

[Alex Kidd]

The only thing I STILL don't understand is this...

If the screens are going to be stacked vertically, with a very thin seam line I'm hoping so as not to affect viewing of games that use both screens as one BIG one,... this just sounds like unnessecarily expensive split screen technology...

IE
Playing an RPG with status screen as bottom screen and playing field as top screen... Hockey game with overhead shot of rink on one screen and close up of player on the other... Why TWO screens? can't one display show some stuff on top and somethig else on the bottom?

Sounds like what FPS have been doing; they even divide the screen into FOUR! Hell We've been divinding screeens on racing games and the like since the 8-bit days!!!

Alex Kidd

[zmweasel]

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[SoulBlazer]

Well, no shock that Nintendo will have games ready for the system -- but how many other companies besides Nintendo made games for the Virtual Boy? :D