N/A

[Kid Fenris]

I'm just DYING to know what the heck this 'sequel to a popular PS1 game that won't get released over here' game is, though.......

In clearly unrelated news, Sony recently shot down Agetec's attempt to bring Shadow Tower Abyss to the U.S., citing the game's "below-average graphics and gameplay." I never thought of the first Shadow Tower as a popular PSOne game, but hey, it's a possibility.

[jjessop]

Mr Weasel knows nothing about the inner workings of SCEA or the games industry in general. I can say that with some expertise as I have been in it 27 years now, I bet he is not even that old! His comments would be completely laughable except for the fact some of you were suckered in by his smack talk and that saddens me.

BTW: As for the "suits at SCEA" comment he made, I can safely report Kaz was wearing his typical blue jeans and polo shirt today.

Jerry

[SoulBlazer]

Shadow Tower? O_O

Never even heard of it. Maybe I need to check it out.

Yeah, small company, sequel to a nitch game -- no wonder Sony shot them down. Hopefully they will consider porting the game to another system.

And I disagree about the PC market being 'dead in the water' -- I'm still buying LOTS of PC games. It's just the PC market has always BEEN hardcore gamers, and that means less profit and less games.

I STILL think there's enough hardcore gamers out there that games catering to them will get released. We just won't see them on a Sony system. Maybe Nintendo or Microsoft could use that to their advantage.

[SoulBlazer]

Who the hell is this Jerry guy with his rude comments? O_O

[Half Japanese]

Hey "Jerry," ever picked up a GMR mag or read Gamespy...or any other number of mags and such...Zach's been freelancing for a hell of a long time (hell, around the time I started picking up a controller, in fact). Tell Kaz I said "fuck you." Good day.

[jjessop]

Hey "Jerry," ever picked up a GMR mag or read Gamespy...or any other number of mags and such...Zach's been freelancing for a hell of a long time (hell, around the time I started picking up a controller, in fact). Tell Kaz I said "fuck you." Good day.

Oh yea, like you should belive everything you read in GMR or Gamespy? You must subscribe to the Weekly World News right? I'll stick to what I see for myself daily, thanks.

I'll pass along that big "Fuck You" to Kaz and if I may, I'll even tell him to pass it along to Ken for you.

Jerry

[lendelin]

Lendelin: Long time no see. Welcome back!

Thanks, Yoshi...I was in Germany for four weeks and escaped the cold winter in Wisconsin, and afterwards I had so much to do that I wasn't on here for almost two months.

About the topic: Some of you implied that SCEA thinks of 2D games as bad, that's certainly not the case. The point is that they don't SELL as well as other games, has nothing to do with an estimation of quality.

I don't see SCEAs policy quite so dramatic. Basically this business behavior is as old as videogames, companies follow the money trail, and that means the top-selling games will be cloned a lot, images have to build up by the harware manufacturers, and if they are in a convenient power postion they pressure the smaller fish. It's old, very old.

The Q is if this "new" policy is smart for Sony in the long-run. I think not. It's short-sighted. 1)Smaller developers will be alienated, business relationships will suffer, and if the opportunity arises (a less powerful Sony in a couple of years?) they will get their revenge if they have other opportunities. People don't forget easily bad experiences. 2) A game system lives from a diverse library, different offerings to a wide spectrum of gamers. To restrict yourself gives the competition some opportunities to create a better image which sets them apart from the dominant powerhouse.

I'm confident that this emphasis on only the best selling games will be corrected in the long-run; if not by Sony, then by the competition and by consumers. Players get tired by the same old-same old, they demand new games, innovative games, and they will come.

There were always times in which the copy cat games dominated for a while until they produced only a yawn. The big problem is that the game industry is entering a normal phase after an incredible expanding period, still too many games are produced for gamers which don't spend so much money anymore in the second cycle of the current systems, and that means that great quality games might not produce as much profit as expected becasue they are easily overlooked. (PoP) The offerings are so many that the established series and mere name recognition dominates consumer behavior for some time, but the end of the Tony Hawk clones, GTA clones, and MoH clones are near and so are these established franchises unless they reinvent themselves.

Athe same token, the big companies have to reduce game offerings becasue they are not doing so well as they did two years ago. It's pretty rational was Sony does, and the same goes for N and MS.

We experience a short transition phase from an oversaturated market to a normal one, and the sacrifices will be smaller developers. The new SCEA policy is a sign among many others for a "healthier" business.

[ubersaurus]

Of course Sony forgets all the great 2D games that have come out for the GBA and other systems......

Thanks for giving me yet another reason to remind me why I love the PS2 but hate the company.

I'm just DYING to know what the heck this 'sequel to a popular PS1 game that won't get released over here' game is, though.......


You know what's a sweet game? Metal Slug X. Mayhaps SNK isn't too well known outside the arcade sector, but you know, anyone who plays this game knows it's grade A. I wonder-did they ever make a Metal Slug 3? Bet it'd be a fantastic game.

Sorry to go off on a tangent like that ;)

[poe]

I remember reading a Victor Ireland post on Working Designs message boards where he was basically criticizing Sony for all of these approval issues, how they don't approve 2D games, only want to allow the release of 3D games, etc. This was about a year ago, though, and since then, look at what's been announced and/or released. Midway Arcade Treasures, Mega Man Anniversary Collection, La Pucelle Tactics, Sega Ages (some 3D, but a lot of 2D titles). I kinda have to take all of this anti-2D propaganda (for lack of a better word) with a grain of salt, especially since I haven't seen any of the above cancelled yet.

[zmweasel]

N/A

[zmweasel]

N/A

[jjessop]

Your homework is not quite accurate, but not bad.

Your attacks on SCEA were pretty viscious and the impressions you were portraying of SCEA and it's inner workings are inaccurate. Your attacks continued and as a journalist I was pretty shocked at the statements, you never let up. You may know something about the games industry but as an 8 year employee of SCEA I totally disagree with your points regarding the company. I might also point out I NEVER represent SCEA in this forum and never reveal my position there. I'm here cause I love video games and for no other reason. If you want to hate SCEA fine, but the hostility was taking on such a negative personal character I needed to speak out. In a sense I'm now defending what is virtually a personal attack on myself (not the company) as I'm in a senior management position there.

You go back and talk to Mark and he will tell you I aways tell it like it is, good or bad, and I'm pretty well known for that. Mark can call me anytime, or email me at home, and I'll bend over backwards to help him. I think he will also vouch for my character.

I'm very fortunate to have spent 8 years at Atari (the old Nolan/Warner Atari) and now 8 years with SCEA. Without a doubt SCEA has more hard core gamers than Atari ever had. It's also a more consumer friendly, well run, and moral company than the old Atari. I'm not just saying that for you, Mark has heard me say it along with many others. In fact it's without a doubt the most moral, honest, place I have ever worked or been associated with.

If you understand the industry then you should certainly be aware that SCEA alone does not run things. What about the few select retailers that muscle the industry, or the 3rd parties, you can't honestly tell me SCEA has power over them. If you want to rant about the state of games that's great. But when you direct all your frustrations and anger solely at SCEA and whip the place up to be full of evil conspiring suits I must take exception to that.

I'm not going to go back and forth on specifics here as it would go on forever and the companies internal business does not belong here. If you or your friend have specific issues that I could possible assist with then feel free to get my direct contact info from Mark and give me a call.


Jerry

[Parodius]

Your homework is not quite accurate, but not bad.

Your attacks on SCEA were pretty viscious and the impressions you were portraying of SCEA and it's inner workings are inaccurate. Your attacks continued and as a journalist I was pretty shocked at the statements, you never let up. You may know something about the games industry but as an 8 year employee of SCEA I totally disagree with your points regarding the company. I might also point out I NEVER represent SCEA in this forum and never reveal my position there. I'm here cause I love video games and for no other reason. If you want to hate SCEA fine, but the hostility was taking on such a negative personal character I needed to speak out. In a sense I'm now defending what is virtually a personal attack on myself (not the company) as I'm in a senior management position there.

You go back and talk to Mark and he will tell you I aways tell it like it is, good or bad, and I'm pretty well known for that. Mark can call me anytime, or email me at home, and I'll bend over backwards to help him. I think he will also vouch for my character.

I'm very fortunate to have spent 8 years at Atari (the old Nolan/Warner Atari) and now 8 years with SCEA. Without a doubt SCEA has more hard core gamers than Atari ever had. It's also a more consumer friendly, well run, and moral company than the old Atari. I'm not just saying that for you, Mark has heard me say it along with many others. In fact it's without a doubt the most moral, honest, place I have ever worked or been associated with.

If you understand the industry then you should certainly be aware that SCEA alone does not run things. What about the few select retailers that muscle the industry, or the 3rd parties, you can't honestly tell me SCEA has power over them. If you want to rant about the state of games that's great. But when you direct all your frustrations and anger solely at SCEA and whip the place up to be full of evil conspiring suits I must take exception to that.

I'm not going to go back and forth on specifics here as it would go on forever and the companies internal business does not belong here. If you or your friend have specific issues that I could possible assist with then feel free to get my direct contact info from Mark and give me a call.


Jerry

Maybe you can't see the forest because of all the trees?

It is difficult to be objective about the company you work for. While in school years ago I worked at Blockbuster and I got sort of caught up in the corporate spirit of things. This was in spite of BBV definitely being on my boycott list both before and after I worked there. I enjoyed working there, being the resident gaming expert, taking care of the game section, etc., my feelings about BBV certainly changed while working there(until I quit when they changed right back).

Afterall, BBV is an evil corporation that fosters censorship(No NC-17 or unrated) and streamlining of content on the market because they are the 800-lbs-gorilla of the rental market(Sound familiar?).



BTW: Sony already made my list years ago when they denied entry to Capcom Generations.

[zmweasel]

N/A

[AB Positive]

Now, I respect the position of the SCEA worker (regardless of position, he may not be their representative but he works there and therefore does have to know what's going on) but while I didn't get to see the initial post, the feelings of the rest of us are still rather founded.


First off, and this is the backbreaker: Metal Slug 3. Yes, a 2D game but a brilliantly made and beautiful 2D game. And it's been rather well played out, as any follower of the SNK company would know, of how SCEA denied this game outright. It's a japanese import only.


Secondly, does SCEA realize that in this day and age, and with their market share... they can have it all. If they wanted to, they could easily appeal to the casual AND hardcore gamer, garnering even more system sales. Microsoft and Nintendo can't do this, they're not in the position to do so. They actually have to rely on some of the wackier or off the wall titles for their survival. Sony, meanwhile, could easily release these games and their whiz-bang looking turds and become an even fatter cat. It's an old byline of marketing, don't alienate anyone in your demographic. Get all that you can.


Thirdly, while I again respect that this person works at SCEA, it IS hard to see the forest from the trees. I am slowly learning this as a Gamestop Register Monkey (2nd Class), that Gamestop is fucking terrible. Truly fucking terrible. It saddens me, as I came to the company with all this spirit and willingness to move up, but slowly as I got screwed over more and more I finally refused to take it anymore.


And finally, with the state of gaming today, I refuse to support any of the next three console systems, ever. There's no reason to. I don't recommend a boycott of Sony, I recommend a boycott of these systems:


PS3
XBOX Next
Whatever-the-hell-else-nintendo-comes-up-with
Whatever-else-some-idiot-company-comes-up-with-I'm-talking-to-you-Nokia

Only by removing our money from the current industry as a whole could we wake up all of the companies to all the shit they're producing.


-AG


p.s. if someone tells me that La Pucille doesn't come out in the US, I will personally make the life of whoever made the decision a total hell. Period.

[Spoony Bard]

What?! I'm sorry, I've entered the conversation late. What happened?

[Kid Ice]

The Dreamcast was doomed from the start, and there's nothing Sega could have done, having already burned its bridges with retailers and most of its fans, and having lost mindshare and the adult market to Sony. Sega was incredibly stupid for almost a decade before the Dreamcast came along.

Not to add to the already considerable headache you must have related to this thread, but I disagree with the first statement here (but certainly not the last one). I feel Sega squandered a successful US launch with too many oddball flagship titles (Shenmue, Jet Grind, Seaman, etc.). I love (some) of those games but apparently they (and their WEIRD commercials) didn't do much for Joe Gamebuyer. I see the DC as something that should have been a success, not as something like sayyy the Jaguar that never had much going for it to begin with.

[brykasch]

1. Game Informer carried an interview with a designer from Capcom who stated point blank that Killer 7 would come out in Japan, but would not be coming stateside due to SCEA's new policies. Thats not some made up bs those are actually comments from the games designers.

2. Just because you work at SCEA don't claim that you knwo everything about the goings on there, no more then anyone else who works at a comapny. You only know what you read and are told. Granted you may have years of experience, but that doesn't guarantee that you are right.

3. Nintendo did this alienating a while back and it cost them to where they only are starting to catch up with the gamecube. Sony is not making alot of money in general wether it be gaming, or electronics in general. THe PS2 is succesful no doubt, but I mena their use of units shipped as opposed to actual units sold as evidence of success is laughable at best. If their is a game coming out I check to see if its coming to xbox, then if that fails, the gamecube, I only buy it for the ps2 if I have to, and then it better be a good game. The only games I have bought for my ps2 since I bought it in nov was kingdom hearts, unison, and karaoke revolution. I have about 9 others but they were all impulse 5 dollar buys during the cc sale. Out of all the games I want for the ps2 (40) most of them are import only.

4. If this is sony's decision on what games their publishing thats fine, but if it aoolies to all games coming out it definitly stifles creativity, and I am sorry there have been far more stinkers than successe on the ps2 lately, I mena look at bargain bins and you see ps2 releases far more than the other two systems.

[Predatorxs]

doooh double!!

[Predatorxs]

Hey all,

I'm a Huge 2D fan, and to hear that alot of PS2 (2D titles) may never see the light of day is and will never be a good thing, since 2D is where this "whole" gaming thing came from, maybe thats why i love my Snes, Nes and PSone so much, just pure gaming fun, and just to think 2D Gaming could become a thing of the past :(

Don't get me wrong i love the way games have changed and evolved, into huge adventures, some of the Gamcube and PS2 games i have, are some of the best gaming fun i'v had in along time ;)


Thank you for your insight, Jerry. I'm ashamed and embarrassed. I should know better than to let my frustration over the rejection of a third-party title lead me into making sweeping and incorrect generalizations about SCEA. I apologize for the hostility, and for any perceived personal attack on yourself. I'll try to learn a lesson from this humbling experience.

-- Z.


I'll try to learn a lesson from this humbling experience.

Zmweasel, i wouldn't have edited your original post, To be Honest, i was alittle surprised at how you tore into SCEA, since you seemed to be a big fan.

It's a shame that it takes some one more than a regular gamer to humble you, since everyone has there right to there opinions. Now not to stick the knife in but, it shouldn't take some one who works for SCEA, to make you see the light of day.

+--- :o Off topic --+

Just out of interest, jjessop you mentioned management, But where you ever involved in the actual games designing, it's always good to hear from people, inside big gaming company's.

There must be some good stories you could tell us, regarding the making and braking of big PS games and the PS hardware itself?

Nothing top secret, just stuff that is common knowledge to insiders, but news to us, the every day gamers.

+--- Back on topic ;) ---+

[portnoyd]

Oof, christ, the claws are out.

dave

[Flack]

I don't claim to know anything about the inner workings of the industry at all, so maybe someone can explain this to me.

Why would SCEA stop any game, ever, from being released? It seems to me that any game out there has the possibility of bringing sales and new fans to the console? What vested interest does Sony have when 3rd party games are released? Does it cost SCEA?

[kainemaxwell]

What lead to the edit of the orginial posts now?

[ArnoldRimmer83]

What lead to the edit of the orginial posts now?

Because a guy who works for SCEA, got bitchy cause zmweasel complained about his company. Boo hoo.

[lendelin]

As a very relaxed 'dude' ...
who never demonized or loved a videogame company, plays games for over 15 years and started playing as an adult, never had even remotely something to do with the game industry, has some brains and observes the game industry for some time, ...

I find this discussion very interesting and I'm very curious about the described controversial policy (which isn't really something new and didn't surprise me at all). I understand business pressures, financial pressures, fierce competition, however, jjessop and zmweasel, I'm just curious which business considerations are behind such a policy. (without stating internal confidential procedures)

I understand which games sell well and which games don't, but the described approval policy smells to me like a 'catch-up-policy' which isn't really necessary for Sony as the market leader in a pretty comfortable market position. Let's face it, a successful game system lives from a diverse game library which appeals to as many as possible. The PS2 has such a game library (and overall the best becasue the most well balanced), as the most esatblished system they get automatically 'exclusive' titles others have to fight for. Even powerful retailers and third party giants recognize that they can't survive without Sony in the current situation, although I recognize their leverage as well.

A metal Slug 3 and other niche titles would improve even more the already good image Sony has with players. Isn't such a restrictive policy short-sighted and unnecessary as I explained in my previous post???

PS: As many of you know, I don't fall for the "mainstream appeal" -talk, business over quality - talk, and the never ending decline of game quality of the present. Right now it's paradise for gamers, we never had so many good games to choose from, and I think the success of the game industry and it's professionalization is an overall very positive thing....which comes with disadvantages, but they come with the territory. :)

[kai123]

What lead to the edit of the orginial posts now?

Because a guy who works for SCEA, got bitchy cause zmweasel complained about his company. Boo hoo.

That was the funniest thing I have read in a long time.

[Bratwurst]

About Metal Slug 3 would it have been so hard on Playmore's behalf to bundle it with 1,2,X and sell it as a budget title? How greedy can you get? Pretty greedy, apparently.

For once let's gloss over SCEA's involvement in Slug 3 not coming out for the PS2 and look at the fact that while Slug 3 is a fine game, it is not a particularly engrossing one. I can beat it in under 2 hours, and that's a waste of pressed plastic to be sold at retail for 40 to 50 bucks if you ask me.

[punkoffgirl]

What lead to the edit of the orginial posts now?

Because a guy who works for SCEA, got bitchy cause zmweasel complained about his company. Boo hoo.

It's comments like this that will get this thread locked quicker than you can say "Sony." If you can't contribute meaningfully to the discussion at hand, then I'd suggest keeping non-productive comments to yourself.

[Fatghost28]

I would also really like to know why a game like Metal Slug 3 would not be approved for US release.


After hearing SCEA wouldn't let SNK publish Metal Slug 3 for PS2 in North America, I bought an Xbox. Most of the other PS2 games I was going to buy this year I'm now going to buy on Xbox instead, since the Xbox versions look better and have online support.

So from my perspective, SCEA's approval process didn't help their PS2 business at all.

[SoulBlazer]

Christ, I go to bed and look what happens. :(

[brykasch]

Well no one had set a price point for metal slug 3 so who knows what it would have cost. If it was like Metal Slug X , I am sure there would be additional missions and such not just the game itself.

Now speaking of Metal Slug X, if 2d games sell so poorly then how come this has been re-released and is selling fairly well?

Metal Slug 1-5 could have been bundled in one disc, but a company shouldn't have to be forced to do it. You pay for the creation of said game, then dammnit you should be entitled to sell it how you want. Now I knwo games have to be edited for content and what not, but hell man looka t the GBA people pay 15-30 for super mario games for heavens sake.

[Flack]

Let me ask an even broader question: does Sony have to approve of all PS2 releases? Why? And what are Sony's costs in the releasing of a Japanese game like MG3 which is already being sold in Japan?

[Parodius]

Let me ask an even broader question: does Sony have to approve of all PS2 releases? Why? And what are Sony's costs in the releasing of a Japanese game like MG3 which is already being sold in Japan?

You can't release a PS2 game without the PS2 logo on it. Nor would retailers dare to carry an unlicensed PS2 game. Sony would crush them.

and, there is some sort of proprietary, copyrighted software required in each piece of software in order for it to run on the PS2. Without it it won't run, and to have it you have to pay Sony.

------------------------

Sony wishes to maintain a different image here than in Japan. If dumb massmarket people see an old-school 2D game running on the PS2 in a demo-pod they might get the impression that that is the best the PS2 is capable of.

Sony doesn't allow 2D games because it doesn't fit their image. Though apparently the abomination that is Gravity Games does fit their image........

Blockbuster rents porn movies in Denmark.

Sega authorized Hentai games to be released for the Saturn in Japan.

Pepsi will not allow the PepsiMan game to be released outside Japan because it doesn't fit their image in the West.


etc. ad infinitum.

[Fatghost28]

Well no one had set a price point for metal slug 3 so who knows what it would have cost. If it was like Metal Slug X , I am sure there would be additional missions and such not just the game itself.

Now speaking of Metal Slug X, if 2d games sell so poorly then how come this has been re-released and is selling fairly well?

Metal Slug 1-5 could have been bundled in one disc, but a company shouldn't have to be forced to do it. You pay for the creation of said game, then dammnit you should be entitled to sell it how you want. Now I knwo games have to be edited for content and what not, but hell man looka t the GBA people pay 15-30 for super mario games for heavens sake.


Metal Slug 3 for PS2 has two extra mission modes. "Fat Island" and "UFO Attack". The main game itself is an exact port of the arcade game (and looks better than the latest King of Fighter ports and WAAAAAY better than the SvC Chaos port, I'm not sure if that's just because MS3 is a better game graphically and artistically to begin with, or if it just turned out better). THe arcade game itself is only 5 levels long, but in terms of level length, it's better than Contra SS on PS2, and each level has multiple pathways so you really need to play the game through a couple of times to see everything.







Let me ask an even broader question: does Sony have to approve of all PS2 releases? Why? And what are Sony's costs in the releasing of a Japanese game like MG3 which is already being sold in Japan?

You can't release a PS2 game without the PS2 logo on it. Nor would retailers dare to carry an unlicensed PS2 game. Sony would crush them.

and, there is some sort of proprietary, copyrighted software required in each piece of software in order for it to run on the PS2. Without it it won't run, and to have it you have to pay Sony.

------------------------

Sony wishes to maintain a different image here than in Japan. If dumb massmarket people see an old-school 2D game running on the PS2 in a demo-pod they might get the impression that that is the best the PS2 is capable of.

Sony doesn't allow 2D games because it doesn't fit their image. Though apparently the abomination that is Gravity Games does fit their image........

Blockbuster rents porn movies in Denmark.

Sega authorized Hentai games to be released for the Saturn in Japan.

Pepsi will not allow the PepsiMan game to be released outside Japan because it doesn't fit their image in the West.


etc. ad infinitum.

Yeah, each gaming company is different in each territory. It just sucks a lot more when a game is published in Japan that actually has international appeal (unlike, say, dating sims) and the publisher itself is actively interested in bringing that game to other territories but is stopped by a console manufacturer.

To say that Sony is afraid that consumers might see Metal Slug running in a demo kiosk and then think the PS2 is underpowered because of it is a silly reason to not allow the game to be released though. It's almost insulting, really, if that was the reason.

[kainemaxwell]

Christ, I go to bed and look what happens. :(
Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I saw the changes.

Damn, I can't post the wahmbulence...

[§ Gideon §]

Guys!



























What's going on?

[Fatghost28]

We're all just wondering why SCEA isn't letting 3rd parties bring out good games that happen to be 2D sprite based.

[Predatorxs]

Howdy! O_O

Know dis is alittle off topic, But is there any chance MS-3 might get a Gamecube Release, Nintendo should buy up playmore, and have all those nice games on the GC or maybe the Nxt Ninty console.

Art of fighting, KOF, MS, Shodown, last blade etc, etc, etc yummmy :P .

That would be Huge! King of Fighters 2004 or even 2005 as a release title with the new console, it wouldn't be the main release title (That would have to be a Mario title LOL )

I guess thats all wishfull thinking...

Anyway back on topic!! Boooooo Scea we want Metal slug 3, yo! were it at! sony ;) ( As i slowly stroke my Platinum GC, shhhh easy there, easy tiger!! :hmm: )

[Fatghost28]

I hope Playmore does consider Gamecube ports as well as Xbox, but Xbox Live is the perfect place for future SNKP games. Especially since all new SNK games are going to use the Atomiswave and SNKP is considering making the arcade games themselves use AW.net.

[Ed Oscuro]

Howdy! O_O

Know dis is alittle off topic, But is there any chance MS-3 might get a Gamecube Release, Nintendo should buy up playmore, and have all those nice games on the GC or maybe the Nxt Ninty console.

Sega/Sammy has already seen to it that SNK games have a new home on the Atomiswave, and I've read that Nintendo has halted construction of a new nextgen console.

[Fatghost28]

I guess we won't get an answer to our questions.

[HellStar]

NINTENDO FOREVER!!! :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:


what a stupid decision O_O

[farfel]

About the topic: Some of you implied that SCEA thinks of 2D games as bad, that's certainly not the case. The point is that they don't SELL as well as other games, has nothing to do with an estimation of quality.

Viewtiful Joe sold very well (not number one but still profitable). Ditto Metrod Zero.

[Fatghost28]

About the topic: Some of you implied that SCEA thinks of 2D games as bad, that's certainly not the case. The point is that they don't SELL as well as other games, has nothing to do with an estimation of quality.

Viewtiful Joe sold very well (not number one but still profitable). Ditto Metrod Zero.

I think that brings us back to Zach's original claim, that Sony only looks at the graphics. Viewtiful Joe is 2D gameplay but 100% 3D graphics. Metroid Zero Mission is a GBA title, which disqualifies it from direct comparison to a PS2 game (as almost every game on GBA is 2D, but it's a portable, so it's not a PS2 competitor).


The only 2D graphic games on PS2 in the US are either anthology titles or Guilty Gear X and GGX2. Even Marvel vs Capcom and Capcom vs SNK 2 have 3D backgrounds, RType Final is 100% 3D graphics. So if Zach was wrong about SCEA's approval process, I'd like to know why he was wrong, because it certainly appears that terrible 3D games have no problem getting approval (Tomb Raider AoD, Enter the Matrix) while great 2D sprite games languish in the approval process and are ultimately cancelled (Metal Slug 3).

What's the deal? Anyone from Sony who's reading this want to come down the mountain and calm the masses?

[Vroomfunkel]

Sometimes I find nuggets in the strangest of places ... was at a conference today for a campaigning charity I work for. Finished with an evening meeting at a church here in London, where I happened to end up sitting next to some guy from the church who was actually a journalist, and in the course of our conversation, he mentions that he is writing an article on the next generation of videogame consoles. Of course, this immediately sparks an in-depth conversation (... after about 5 minutes of which his wife disappears off to the pub).

Anyway .. the relevance to this thread is this: for the research for this article he visisted and interviewed people from the three major players in the arena, and his perspective on it was that Sony were, more than anything else, and more than anyone else, concerned with how their games appeared - their biggest concern was that the games showed off the technical capability and potential of their machine.

He also said that with the next generation of consoles the main problem is going to be convincing people that there is any value in upgrading at all, because up until now gamers have been very aware of the limitations of the machines they have played on. Whereas now, people are content with what they have in terms of pure technical capability. The challenge then is going to shift to what else about the new games / systems makes them worth having. Which is where gameplay will start coming back into its own. Soon (and to a point, already) people are no longer going to be impressed simply by great graphics and sound .. because it will be standard, and everyone will expect no less. The only aspect left to differentiate on will be the gameplay.

It is an interesting perspective .. and if it is true, then perhaps we are heading into a better age of gaming than we expected, and the the future is brighter rather than dimmer. His view was that Nintendo had the best handle on this, but perhaps not the market position to capitalise on it. And he perceived Sony to be least aware of this paradigm shift, but the biggest question would be would their market position be strong enough to allow them enough time to take it on board and shift their attitude before the lighter faster movers steal their thunder.

That's all for now! Maybe some food for thought...

Vroomfunkel

[Oobgarm]

He also said that with the next generation of consoles the main problem is going to be convincing people that there is any value in upgrading at all, because up until now gamers have been very aware of the limitations of the machines they have played on. Whereas now, people are content with what they have in terms of pure technical capability. The challenge then is going to shift to what else about the new games / systems makes them worth having. Which is where gameplay will start coming back into its own. Soon (and to a point, already) people are no longer going to be impressed simply by great graphics and sound .. because it will be standard, and everyone will expect no less. The only aspect left to differentiate on will be the gameplay.

That's so incredibly true. I've been wondering myself how the new systems are going to blow me away. I'm not holding my breath for a ground-breaking advancement, only a mere upgrade.

And yes, gameplay will factor in more heavily. They'll notice that eventually. :roll:

[Fatghost28]

That makes an awful lot of sense.

So basically: Sony is especially scared of maintaining an image of "cutting edge" and is afraid that without that image, their business will suffer?


Hopefully with the next gen of systems, graphics won't impress the masses anymore and fun gameplay can come back to the fore.

[badinsults]

I said this in another thread, but the console makers are going to have to work very hard to convince me a new console is justified. Are games going to be better with better hardware? Graphics and sound can only be improved so much, and they are currently at the point where you can get near-realism. Sony's unwillingness to branch out and try new things will be its downfall.

[WiseSalesman]

1. Game Informer carried an interview with a designer from Capcom who stated point blank that Killer 7 would come out in Japan, but would not be coming stateside due to SCEA's new policies. Thats not some made up bs those are actually comments from the games designers.

Really? I thought Killer 7 was one of Capcom's GCN only titles, along with P.N03, Viewtiful Joe, Resident Evil 4, and Dead Phoenix (or whatever it was called).

[IntvGene]

1. Game Informer carried an interview with a designer from Capcom who stated point blank that Killer 7 would come out in Japan, but would not be coming stateside due to SCEA's new policies. Thats not some made up bs those are actually comments from the games designers.

Really? I thought Killer 7 was one of Capcom's GCN only titles, along with P.N03, Viewtiful Joe, Resident Evil 4, and Dead Phoenix (or whatever it was called).

All I know is that Magicbox reported that Capcom announced they will release a PlayStation 2 version of Killer 7 in Japan and US this winter, the game was previously exclusive to GameCube, now it is coming to both platforms simultaneously.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/game013004.shtml

[Zubiac666]

[All I know is that Magicbox reported that Capcom announced they will release a PlayStation 2 version of Killer 7 in Japan and US this winter, the game was previously exclusive to GameCube, now it is coming to both platforms simultaneously.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/game013004.shtml

no...the ps2 ver will only be released in japan
and it will be released later than gc version

[Fatghost28]

SCEA has now also refused to approve Agetec to publish Shadow Tower Abyss, a first person action RPG made by From Software (makers of Otogi, King's Field, and others).


According the Agetec, the reason is that Sony feels the graphics aren't very good and there is no market for this kind of game in the US.


(the graphics are amazing, check out the preview at Gamespot)
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/shadowtowerabyss/screens.html?page=11
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/shadowtowerabyss/screens.html?page=12
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/shadowtowerabyss/screens.html?page=13
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/shadowtowerabyss/screens.html?page=14
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/shadowtowerabyss/screens.html?page=15
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/shadowtowerabyss/screens.html?page=1
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/shadowtowerabyss/screens.html?page=2

[badinsults]

Wow, that Killer 7 game looks wicked.


* puts on the "must have" games list

[Ed Oscuro]

SCEA has now also refused to approve Agetec to publish Shadow Tower Abyss, a first person action RPG made by From Software (makers of Otogi, King's Field, and others).

OMG, that looks amazing. Are you SURE that's the right title?

:O

No way Sony thinks that looks bad. Those must just be mockups and the final project looks bad, or something. o_O

As for the original Shadow Tower...I suddenly remembered playing This (http://www.gamespot.com/ps/rpg/shadowtower/screenindex.html) off a sampler disc! I thought it looked pretty darn good at the time. I'll have to see about getting the game sometime...hmm. Supposedly it's very dated (got a 3.9...ouch) compared to other titles, but I say it looked good at the time, to me. Hmm.

[Fatghost28]

SCEA has now also refused to approve Agetec to publish Shadow Tower Abyss, a first person action RPG made by From Software (makers of Otogi, King's Field, and others).

OMG, that looks amazing. Are you SURE that's the right title?

:O

No way Sony thinks that looks bad. Those must just be mockups and the final project looks bad, or something. o_O

As for the original Shadow Tower...I suddenly remembered playing This (http://www.gamespot.com/ps/rpg/shadowtower/screenindex.html) off a sampler disc! I thought it looked pretty darn good at the time. I'll have to see about getting the game sometime...hmm. Supposedly it's very dated (got a 3.9...ouch) compared to other titles, but I say it looked good at the time, to me. Hmm.


STA has been out in Japan for a while (since October of last year). Those screens are from the completed game.


Agetec had a nearly finished translated version as well, they were planning on shipping the game in a few weeks.

[lendelin]

About the controversial so-called "new' approval policy of SCEA emphasizing graphics and looks of games which for some is indicative of the horribly gone wrong games in the era of mainstream:

I stumbled upon a DP-interview with Mark Hahn, an early Atari programmer (in the archives of this site):

QUOTE:
"Dukes [of Hazard] was never released because it sucked. I just wish someone had told me that when I was programming it. ...I had put months of very long days and weekends into the game. I was a bit upset.

When I say the game sucked, I mean it didn't look as good (!!!) as the games Atari was trying to produce at that point. ...So the game was pushed in a direction that made good graphical resolution impossible. In defense of the group that designed Dukes, we didn't have a lot of examples of what the VCS could do at that point, and it was very hard to get any examples from the CA office."


First, You see, guys, everything bad and good was basically already there in the early years of videogames; so, never criticize the present based upon a constructed "golden age" of videogames which didn't exist in the first place.

Second, the approval policies became more structured and professionalized, not necessarily a bad thing as the quote shows.

You can disagree with approval policies in general, but when it comes to business pressures, looks of games, and profit-orientation, the past didn't see a lot of angels, and the present doesn't see an overabundance of little devils.

[Fatghost28]

About the controversial so-called "new' approval policy of SCEA emphasizing graphics and looks of games which for some is indicative of the horribly gone wrong games in the era of mainstream:



I don't think the point of this thread was that this is something new or indicative of the greater mass appeal of video games today.





First, You see, guys, everything bad and good was basically already there in the early years of videogames; so, never criticize the present based upon a constructed "golden age" of videogames which didn't exist in the first place.

Second, the approval policies became more structured and professionalized, not necessarily a bad thing as the quote shows.

You can disagree with approval policies in general, but when it comes to business pressures, looks of games, and profit-orientation, the past didn't see a lot of angels, and the present doesn't see an overabundance of little devils.


Actually, if you read the rumors going around, you'd find that the major complaint is not that the approval process is now structured and professional, but instead very uncertain. Everyone just wants clarification, and no one is getting it.

And yes, personally, I'd like to see the end of concept approval. It doesn't stop shovelware from coming out, and the industry is large enough now that niche titles have their place. I didn't like it in the NES days, I didn't like it during the 16 bit era, I absolutely loathed it while Sega of America was ruining the Saturn, and it really burns me up now.

[Predatorxs]

I love it when people say "I read" IE. I read that Sadam is really staying at the white house..

That Bill Clinton, is still US President!.... So since it was read some where it has to be true!!! O_O


I've read that Nintendo has halted construction of a new nextgen console.

Well i read LOL that Nintendo is due to release the GC2 (N5 wat ever?!?)
at the same time sony releases the PS3!!

Regardless of who or what gets released i'm pretty sure that Ninty will release it's next gen console, and blow holes right through Sony!! Yeaaaah!!

Sony may have won the battle, But Ninty.....etc...etc!!

XS