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[zmweasel]

N/A

[Dire 51]

I'm now officially nauseous. DAMN SCEA TO HELL! If Gradius V gets canned because of this, they'll never get another dollar out of me - EVER.

[hydr0x]

doesn't surprise me at all, but it's still :angry:

everyone should boycott all of their current stuff for that!!

[PapaStu]

On the 2D note... Does that mean that Metal Slug 3 is now only gonna be on the XBox??? Or does this only apply to games past such and such date????

Damn SCEA/SCEJ for putting such constraints on the system.. What do they think that becuase they've pushed 70 Million units that all games need to be forced 3D? Is this suppose to mean a higher calbur of game for the player??? No, this will just glut the system with POOR quality 3D shit, that looks and plays like crap.... Look at most of the final titles for the PSOne in the 3D dept... crap and more crap...Glad to note the whole 3D concept of the PSOne is still intact, "If its 3D they will buy it"
Many of the BEST PSOne games were 2D games... and these Sony Execs all need to be beaten with sticks... :angry:

[zmweasel]

N/A

[SegaTecToy]

These Sony's blue suits are crazy. Now even the efforts of good third-party developers will get canned only because they are idiots.

Stupid management decisions killed Sega's consoles. Apparently some people never learn the past's lessons...

[brykasch]

In the newest issue of Game Informer, they have an interview with a designer, and he was talking about a game coming out in Japan, and basically said that with scea's current policies there was no way they could release it over here, so I have to tend to agree with this post.

I was reding in the newest OPM how there was over 60 PS2 games released over the holiday season. That just blew my mind, no wonder so many have bad sales.

I mean jeez look how many people bought True Crime, when they could've had POP, damn GTA has messed up gamers between that and sports games its ridiculous, lameness and un-originality is being rewarded.

[kai123]

What about fighting games? Isn't capcom supposed to release that new street fighter? I think that is why Snk has went to the X-box.

[EnemyZero]

One more reason why I always have, and always will hate sony

[Oobgarm]

I'm personally not a fan of Sony themselves, but I sure do like their console.

This information certainly does not help make my perception of them any better.

[zmweasel]

N/A

[downfall]

O_O

That is.. just wow.

I guess I can say that, aside from the totally negative effect it's having on the industry, it doesn't really bother me too much, with all things considered. In thinking about it, Konami is the only reason I got a PS2 in the first place, and if it weren't for Konami, I wouldn't have considered it at all.

[ManekiNeko]

I've complained about this for years. I'm just glad someone has confirmed my suspicions with cold, hard facts.
Make mine Nintendo, please.

JR

[ArnoldRimmer83]

This really sucks. Sony will get away with this as long as they are number 1. Hopefully this assholish behavior of theirs will come back and bite them in the ass. (Or preferrably the balls.) The last PS2 game I remember buying was Contra Shattered Soldier. Very few titles coming out for the PS2 these days just didn't look too appealing, and it really isn't a wonder now.

I am glad Gradius V is still coming out. Though I can kiss any possibility of that Dragon Quest V remake coming out in the US goodbye. (Not that it had much chance to begin with, but with those policies it has even less.)

[Half Japanese]

Well, looks like my plans to rebuy a ps2 (sold my original a while back) have been shot in the ass. When you have policies in place that rely solely on graphical competence and not any sort of other performance, you lose my dollar(s). Not that I care, what with Nintendo's awesome holiday lineup (Mario Kart, 1080) and my new Xbox Live acct. Viva la Underdogs!

[ManekiNeko]

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. The video game industry is less about video game players now and more about the casual fan who likes big explosions and breasts. Just look at the advertising for video games these days... companies like Activision are quick to point out that they've won awards from Spike TV's VGAs, even though most TRUE gamers would take them about as seriously as the unintelligible rants of a urine-soaked homeless man.
Luckily, if there's ever a crash, you know greedy bastards like Sony will be the first rats to leave the sinking ship. And Nintendo will return to bail the industry out, just like it has in the past.

JR

[SegaTecToy]

...Luckily, if there's ever a crash, you know greedy bastards like Sony will be the first rats to leave the sinking ship. And Nintendo will return to bail the industry out, just like it has in the past.

I'm starting to hope for a crash...

[evilmess]

It kinda sucks to hear that but I think Sony probly has slidding scale when it comes to the concept approval. Meaning that triple A developers get more consideration and a higher chance of approval for their game concepts.

2D isnt't dead yet. We still have Guilty Gear and Capcom 2D fighters.

[Captain Wrong]

I'm just curious, when was the video game industry (at least in the US) not about trying to attract the casual fan?

I think graphics over gameplay is hardly anything new and I don't see Nintendo or Microsoft being any better or more for the "true" gamer in this regard. Is anyone openly supporting 2d games? Hell, other than Capcom vs. SNK 2, has there even been a true 2d game on the 'cube or 'box? (Retro ports don't count.)

This industry has always been about money and always will be. Someone is making money, otherwise they'd be trying something different. Yes it sucks, but that's just the way it is.

[kainemaxwell]

This is just sad news indeed. Another reason why our market is flooded with crappy 3D games and fewer A+ quality titles. O_O

[IntvGene]

I wonder how much the size of this company comes into play here. I mean, would the results be the same if Sega of America tried to do some of those things? Generally, I am quite a skeptical person, and I also tend to be a little skeptical when I hear someone comment about a company that they have currently been "screwed over by". I mean, what do you expect him to say? "Well, Sony rejects ever game we do, but damn do we suck." I expect a little venting.

I guess it leaves us to look for interesting projects to still come out of Japan I'm glad I haven't sold my Import PS2 yet. I think the American division of Sega, Sony, whatever tends to be swimming with morons as a whole anyway. So, this news isn't that surprising.

I agree that the market is a little panicked. The only thing that is selling is sports games in America, along with the odd hit. I bet most of the big companies wished that there were a couple more football seasons a year. And, I agree with the Cap'n... I don't know who fosters companies making non-mainstream games. "Here's what I want you to do, make a game that caters to only the mainstream gamers.. make sure that it sells less than a 100,000 copies, and make sure it's 2-D." It's been a graphical market only for awhile now, especially with the younger crowd.

I understand that the difference here is Sony's approval process here, not just development of a game and, in the end, I still don't really understand why Sony doesn't try to release some interesting games. Can't they see like successes like the Eye-Toy are based off of something fun, or a unique gimmick more than anything?

[Mr. Smashy]

This all seems pretty silly to me. First off, just about every system in the last 15 years have had crappy 3d games. That won't change anytime soon. Next off, it's hardly a big deal that the SCEA won't be accepting 2D games because there are plenty of other companies that will. Sony's loss is Microsoft's and Nintendo's gain.
This is pretty much the same reason as to why hardcore gamers likely wouldn't care. I certainly wouldn't call a gamer "hardcore" if he only has one game console and it's a PS2 and he only likes 2D games.
Also, saying that the PS2 isn't worth owning because it won't be making anymore 2D games is just plain goofy because that's pretty much saying that it doesn't have any great or redeeming 3D games.

[SegaTecToy]

Most entertainment industries have niche markets as classic music, art movies and cyberpunk novels. But when a game sell less than a gazzilion copies it is considered a failure. Why when a company make a great game, recover all the costs and make some profits (enough to stay alive) people still keep talking of them as a failure. I think this industry, and some executives as well, should become more mature.

[Ichi The Killer]

From what I have heard its more politics than content. Those that can wine and dine Sony folks will get their games approved, those that have a strained relationship don't get their games approved.

There are 3D games that have been published by Sony in other territories that are published by a 3rd party in America, or never released.

No one told Ubi to release a glut of "AAA" titles within weeks of one another, there is no way that they could expect all them to sell well.

The American game market appears to be changing, the "consumer" wants more photorealism and less abstraction, so expect more war, GTA-style, sports games, less arty, abstract kinds of stuff...

If you don't like it learn Japanese ;) They are still releasieng tons of abstract wierd games over seas.

[kainemaxwell]

Quick question though- will these new "said guidelines" be viewable by the public when released?

[zmweasel]

N/A

[zmweasel]

N/A

[lucavi]

and then when sony see's a profit loss they'll probably blame piracy as the cause

[zmweasel]

N/A

[YoshiM]

Everyone who knows me knows my stance on Sony Computer Entertainment. Even though I did play some games on both the PS1 and PS2 and enjoyed them (I can rattle 'em off right now: Silent Hill, Tekken 3, Castlevania SOTN, Tempest 3X, Metal Gear Solid, GTA 3 and PaRappa the Rapper 2) I still loathe the system and the effect Sony has had on the industry. The little nuggest of journalistic joy our resident weasel has scrounged up just makes me dislike SCEA even more.

On one side I can understand having a list of requirements in order for a game to be released on a console. As tight as Nintendo's was back in the day it was still a good idea. However to restrict a game's release due to graphical factors is just asinine. Why go 3D if it doesn't enhance the game? If that's the only thing keeping a potentially good game from being released in America on the Playstation then somepeoples who control the strings at SCEA need a lobotomy starting from the asshole then north.

Can anyone come up with what the top sellers were for the Christmas season? I tried googling and all I get for December 2003 are links to reports for December of 2001 or the top hits of 2003 (all were sequels, funny enough).

[zmweasel]

N/A

[rbudrick]

Well, once SOnmy sets these guidelines, have your friend send you a copy of it. Then, post it all over online....that'll fuck em.

-ROb

[zmweasel]

N/A

[geelw]

lol- i've been under a self-imposed agreement of silence with a few small publishers based on stuff we've spoken about in the past, but seeing the "new" additions to sony's already insane policies makes me cringe a bit more. now, when i look at certain import ps/ps2 titles, i KNOW just why no one has (or will ever) localize them. say what you want about working designs, but the hell sony put them through with that goemon game is a perfect example of how to kill off what could have been an interesting u.s. release. there's a lot out there that's good on the ps2, but there could be a hell of a lot MORE, and less crap if they weren't so focused on banishing 2D gaming from the planet for good.

as for sales figures, lets just say as usual, the u.s. marketplace sells WAY too many sports, and mass market focused tie-in games, good and bad. enter the matrix, true crime, and the rest of the usual cookie cutter wrasslin' and racin' suspects sell millions, while beyond good and evil, prince of persia, goblin commander (great game, btw), metal arms, and pretty much anything with any sort of niche factor swims with the fishes.

oh, and capcom isn't doing THAT good, what with the list of canned games, and crap like p.n. 03, chaos legion, dmc 2, and the last couple of mega man games stinking up store shelves, you have to wonder just how much money they're actually making. a new street fighter really isn't going to do all that much (but it'll probably be better than another bloody roar, lol)...

[lendelin]

...and I was really looking forward to Growlanser generations. Thank goodness Gradius V will still be released.

The exaggerated emphasis on graphics is bad news, really a bad sign, and to reject a game becasue it's in 2D is awful. wasn't that Sonys policy at the bginning of the PS1 as well? Part of the problem is that too many games are released, the market is saturated, even a fantastic game like PoP might not do well. SCEAs policy is bad business in the long run, don't they realize that? A system lives from a diverse game library.

Zmwaesel, just curious, did your friend mention the success of Viwtiful Joe to the SCEAs suits? How do they explain the success of this 'awful' 2D game?

[evilmess]

lendelin,

While it plays like a good ole 2D plaformer VJ is more 3D than 2D. Plus it's a GC exclusive so I'm sure the suits at Sony could care less about the success of VJ. I'd really like to see more game like VJ that combine 2D and 3D in a platformer.

Weren't a couple DC 2D shooters recently announced for rerelease on the PS2? Gunbird(2) and one other one that escapes me right now and I beleive SNK has some KOF lined up for release on the PS2 also.

[Lady Jaye]

SCEA should look not only in its own backyard but also in its neighbor's backyard: look how much success Nintendo have had with games like Animal Crossing, Pikmin and Wario Ware. These are games with quirky premises, with not so nice graphics (except Pikmin; AC was a port of a N64 game, for chrissakes)... Mario Party is a virtual board game... These are just some examples that pop up in my mind... I'm sure people with an Xbox could come up with examples of their own.

Besides, doesn't Sony remember that Castlevania: SotN is a cult classic? Not bad for a 2D game!!!

As far as predicting the "next big thing" goes, remember this precious lesson from history: At the 1980 AMOA, the game considered by many to be the next big thing was Rally X. Two bombshells called Pac-Man and Defender were pretty much ignored.

[sabre2922]

I like to think of myself as not only an openminded person but more importantly an open minded educated GAMER!
I dont enjoy posting or reading articles about this or that game system sucks but SONY has gone to far.
While I have never truly taken to Sony or especially the PS2 ever since that hype machine was released and officially killed what was most likely the greatest TRUE gamers machine ever the reverred DREAMCAST I have now become an official Sony hater not that IM proud of it but thats just the way it is!
I blame the PS2 for destroying what once was a nice small cohesive hobby where gamers new what was a good game and so did the developers and publishers, who cares if it was a "geek" thing.
My fondest memories of this hobby we all enjoy is in the "golden" 16-bit era before Sony (no the SNES disc drive thing doesnt apply) came into the game and made it "kool" to be a gamer and now we have all these casual gamers buying terrible games and the game developers ,publishers cant get all this crap out on the shelves fast enough

[evilmess]

SCEA should look not only in its own backyard but also in its neighbor's backyard

Not just the GC but also the GBA which is primarily a 2D system and sells a boat load of 2D games. Which leaves me wondering how this policy will extend to Sony's new handheld due out this winter.

[number6]

This is pretty much the same reason as to why hardcore gamers likely wouldn't care. I certainly wouldn't call a gamer "hardcore" if he only has one game console and it's a PS2 and he only likes 2D games




I don't know about that. A person who only plays 2D games sounds pretty hard core to me. Maybe you don't like 2D games, but people can be obsessive about 2D games like you are about crappy 3D games too you know. Hell the very definition of hardcore (www.dictionary.com) is :



hard-core also hard·core (härdkôr, -kr)
adj.
Intensely loyal; die-hard: a hard-core secessionist; a hard-core golfer.
Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change: hard-core poverty.
Extremely graphic or explicit: hard-core pornography.



Can a gamer not be intensely loyal/diehard about 2D games?

[sabre2922]

umm im not finished lol LOL
This is my opinion of Sony and the ps2 in context:
PS2 the system: graphically slightly more powerful than Segas Dreamcast,Ive owned 2 both broke so now I have an Xbox and Gamecube although Xbox has quickly became my fav.
The mass public do not truly realize how terrible this sytem is the graphics are far under par compared to Gamecube and expecially XBOX.
Most game developers despise the problems the PS2 gives them from a technical point of veiw but are afraid to say so or comment on it cause they will suffer the wrath of sony. (all except tecmo anyway,lol)
The company Sony: no more 2-D games? well you can bet your a$$ I will never buy another Sony system ever again! not that I would have anyway!
A bunch of graphix whores haha BIG SUPRISE THERE! just look at how my once favored FinalFantasy series has turned into a hybrid girls gone wild+barbies dress up game crap!
The most ironic thing in this whole situation for me after being a gamer for more than 25 years is that I when microsoft first announced the XBOX I was a frenzied and frantic(like harrison ford) XBOX hater becuase I thought the big M would destroy my fav hobby ,but alas I was wrong it was Sony who hath brought the wrath of casual gamers and crap 3-d games galore to create a never ending void of GTA clones and the further killing of the art of 2-D! WILL THIS EVER END!

[Lady Jaye]

That's why I mentioned Wario Ware. It's an example of a very quirky Japanese game that's in 2D and has had success here.

If I started to include GBA titles (not including SNES remakes and ports of classic games), my list would've been a lot longer. See Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission, Mega Man Zero + Zero 2, Mario & Luigi SuperStars, even the 2D isometric ports of the Tony Hawk games (I actually don't like the GBA version of THPS, but many people do), Gradius Galaxies...

[ddockery]

Forget that we like 2d games and know this is a stupid policy. let's take a step back here and assume Sony is right that all 2d games are crap. Can anyone explain to me how a 2d game could hurt the company if it was released and failed miserably? It would hurt the game's publisher of course, but how does this affect Sony???

[ManekiNeko]

Remember, folks, there are other game systems than the Playstation. Maybe it's time we support them instead.

JR

[zmweasel]

N/A

[Kid Ice]

(yawn)

Here we go again. "The Man" is stickin' it to us hardcore gamers.

This BUSINESS is about making MONEY.

[zmweasel]

N/A

[PDorr3]

After reading every post in this topic I am not HIGHLY upset w/ sony. Sure I know all about the casual gamers and how SCEA knows that all they care about is violence and graphics, but canning "not so good looking" games for good? that just blows my top off. I will continue to buy PS2 games but I will never speak good of SCEA ever again...

[sabre2922]

hey kid ice Im sure all of us here are well aware that this "buisness" is about making money, that is a given.
What we are complaining about here is the outright stupidity of these conglamerate companies destroying what once was a great fun hobby!
:o Also there are companies that actually "care" about making great games as well as profit or are satasfied for the most part if they just break even companies like: WORKINGDESIGNS, TECMO, SNK (although that was part of their downfall but thats for another topic) and on rare occasions capcom steel battalion etc.
A majority of these game developers know that some games wont beat any sales records but realease certain games that are for 'core' audiances even if all they do is break even at best.
LATER GAMERS!!!

[SoulBlazer]

Of course Sony forgets all the great 2D games that have come out for the GBA and other systems......

Thanks for giving me yet another reason to remind me why I love the PS2 but hate the company.

I'm just DYING to know what the heck this 'sequel to a popular PS1 game that won't get released over here' game is, though.......

[Brisco]

Sony is behaving the same way that Nintendo did in the 80's, believing that nothing can touch them, and will continue to do what they what, even at the cost of a small group of hardcore gamers that made them what they are. They do not care what we think, and will release the braindead GTA clones, as long as they sell at the ridiculous rate that they do.

I don't want to say that there are no good 3D games, but to outright deny them is stupid. With companies like SNK going to Xbox, and some really strange, quirky, and games like Cubivore on the Cube, I think it's finally hit me that Sony is the true evil empire at the moment, and will probably be the reason the industry crashes this time.

[tynstar]

I am, as of today, officially a Sony-hater.-- Z.

Welcome to the club!!

[sabre2922]

HEY BRISCO AMEN BROTHER!
the big difference between a crash now and the crash of '83 would be that the industry would survive a major "crash" and everyone knows sony would be the first to run for the hills LOL
I honestly think that another crash would do all the gamers that post on the boards here a great favor just think about it:
all the great deals on the clearance shelves stores like my local gamestop selling everything for 5 bucks man I hate the manager there :angry:
AND AFTER THE DUST SETTLED maybe only Nintendo, Microsoft and even Sega may be left to hold the reigns for the future of consoles after Sony clears out! :evil:

[tynstar]

everyone should boycott all of their current stuff for that!!

I have been doing that for over a year. So I am with ya!

[zmweasel]

N/A

[Lady Jaye]

OK, so what sell are the established franchises and sequels. Obviously, they're huge cash cows. Maybe it's time that we see this in the same vein as the music industry? If you look at music's top-10, you get the one-hit wonder flavor-of-the-week or the latest hits by a surefire hitmaker. Then, you have your underground stuff. The weirder music. The classicals and re-releases. The hard rock/metal. The rap. The pop music. Etc.

Why couldn't it be like that in the gaming world? There's a place for 2D games like there is for SNES and classic arcade ports like there are for sim games, or experimental titles... I know that it takes a lot of resources to produce one game today, but that doesn't mean that the videogame industry should shot down any attempt at a marginal, niche market release.

[YoshiM]

Z- thanks! I knew there were a bunch of sequels on the list but I couldn't find 'em.

Brisco: I knew Nintendo had a tight reign on what games came out for the NES but was it nearly as bad as Sony's, I wonder? I would have to think not as we got some pretty sweet titles back in the day.


Lendelin: Long time no see. Welcome back!

[kainemaxwell]

Maybe one day someone'll write a book about Sony like with Game Over.

[buttasuperb]

glad I sold my ps2

go xbox

2D will be around forever.

[kai123]

* Gameplay does not, in any way, enter into the process, but graphics are all-important. My friend was quite literally told this: a gorgeous game that plays like dogshit will be approved, and a fantastic game that looks like dogshit will not be approved.


Forget about 2d for a moment. If this is how they approve their 3d games then we are in more trouble than just losing out on some 2d games. How can they say that gameplay doesn't matter? :roll:

[Dire 51]

Gradius V will come out on the PS2 by virtue of its 3D backgrounds and Konami's pull with SCEA -- you think SCEA is gonna snub the makers of Metal Gear Solid 2? -- but Metal Slug 3 will never come out on the PS2.

-- Z.

Thank god for small favors. Since I now have R-Type Final, Gradius V is the one game I'm really looking forward to this year. I'll be extremely pissed if Sony does pull a fast one on us by canceling it, though.

[IntvGene]

What people don't understand about the crash is that it happened because there were a flood of sub-part titles. Companies now license their games so that they can control the supply of those titles. These companies believe that young male gamers (the core of the videogaming population) enjoy buying sports titles and tired franchises. And, it's in their interest to sell what their consumers want. It hasn't changed for a very long time, and despite this announcement, nothing has changed.

Graphics and visuals are an important part of the continuing strategy to sell games. To bring an analogy from the movie industry, look what is selling there... tired franchises, and movies with nice visuals and mediocre acting and or plot. It's what people want. Spiderman had a record number of continuity errors and some of the worst writing/acting in recent years, yet broke sales records. Sure, in the movie industry, there are ways to get your product out the door without such strict licensing, and arthouse movies can receive a little bit of acclaim. But, in the current gaming industry, it can't be done. You can make a homebrew game like Beats of Rage, and it can be followed by a loyal group of gamers, but I don't see it being picked up by any publisher in the future.

Games have moved into the mainstream now, and to expect any large gaming company to cater to a small percentage of the population is not going to happen. Sure, the licensing program hurts creativity and it affects the "hardcore gamer", but we aren't seeing anything new. It's what companies do to protect their interests and to make a profit. The only reason why we see 2-d "classics" on the modern consoles is the nostalgia factor and ease of portability. And don't tell me that Viewtiful Joe's success has nothing to do with its graphical prowess. The game is fun, but it is also a very nice-looking game.

It's interesting to me how everyone who hates how these games are licensed, is running to Nintendo when they were the ones were had a lot to do with starting the licensing scheme to begin with! If you should be running anywhere, it's to the PC market.

So why does this company continue to try and make games for the PS2? Does it have anything to do with money? Or the fact that they are trying to produce a product for the system with the highest console base?



Every other form of entertainment manages to cater to a variety of groups and interests, but SCEA wants nothing but mass-market blockbusters, which is an incredibly stupid way of thinking.


I don't think that the videogaming population can be divided. I think that is a huge part of the problem. Because the companies see only young male gamers, they tend to be very shortsighted, and limit their games accordingly. I think that we all lost out in the mid-80's when the companies realized that games were only young males. It's what has killed North American gaming companies. They can't get past that mindset, where they can in Japan.

[Lady Jaye]

That's also part of the problem. In Japan, there are games that interests girls without falling into the Barbie/Olsen Twins limitations set by gaming companies in North America. Two of the only games of the sort that has made it here without being limited to imports, are Animal Crossing and DDR (then again, my 18-year-old cousin would argue that DDR is not a game, as he once told me, but what does he know?).

They haven't figured out yet that a girl doesn't want to play virtual Barbie on a console and that, even if she did want that, she'd outgrow it fast.

Then again, when was the last time you've seen Nintendo try to reach out to women gamers by advertising Metroid to them? Here we had it all: an action heroine who kicks ass without being restricted in a bikini (the Justin Bailey code notwithstanding), a game with great gameplay (both in its classic 2D versions and its 3D version), a great sci-fi setting... What's there not to like? I'd think that any woman who likes the Alien series would get a kick out of Metroid. Samus is, after all, a Ripley type in a spacesuit.

[Kid Ice]

(yawn)

Here we go again. "The Man" is stickin' it to us hardcore gamers.

This BUSINESS is about making MONEY.

Dude, ain't nobody disputing that, least of all me. I completely understand how the videogame business works. What I'm pissed about is that SCEA has become so greedy that it's now actively screwing over hardcore gamers in its blind pursuit of casual gamers. "Gamer's games" from second- and third-tier publishers are getting rejected because SCEA only wants whiz-bang 3D extravaganzas. Every other form of entertainment manages to cater to a variety of groups and interests, but SCEA wants nothing but mass-market blockbusters, which is an incredibly stupid way of thinking.

-- Z.

Yeah. A little snarkiness on my part with that "yawn" business, but we've been down this road SO many times. I don't know if I'd characterize building a cannon of mass-market blockbusters as "incredibly stupid". I would use that phrase to describe Sega's efforts with the Dreamcast. Sure they did US a lot of good, but you can't make much of a living off points for orginality.

All I can do is vote with my wallet, and I am... I'm not buying nearly as many new games as I was five years ago, and my DC collection still dwarfs my PS2 collection more than 4 to 1. To complain about it is pointless IMO, kinda like complaining about how terrible Gamestop and EB are.

[Ed Oscuro]

Uh, I was here... o_O

X.

my that's some bad news! :O I had suspected the 2D bit for a while but now...jeez! I thought that wasn't necessarily the case anymore.

o_O

Well, aside from what we heard from GameSpot the other day, this is the proof that Metal Slug is never going to be on the PS2.

I guess Sony thinks there's only enough room for the giants of game publishing right now, and that they'd better push graphics as hard as they can.

Sort of funny, actually, when you consider how damn underpowered the system is. It can make some nice visuals, sure, but it's so hard to create depth there in that limited memory space. Eh.

"I was a teenage PlayStation Fanboy" sounds like a good title for a horror movie, and there's no happy ending in this one.

[Mr. Smashy]

This is pretty much the same reason as to why hardcore gamers likely wouldn't care. I certainly wouldn't call a gamer "hardcore" if he only has one game console and it's a PS2 and he only likes 2D games

I don't know about that. A person who only plays 2D games sounds pretty hard core to me. Maybe you don't like 2D games, but people can be obsessive about 2D games like you are about crappy 3D games too you know.
*snip*
Can a gamer not be intensely loyal/diehard about 2D games?

First off, I adore 2D games as much as the next guy. I just bear no hatred for a game when it tosses in an extra dimension here and there. A gamer can certainly be loyal/diehard about 2D games but for the life of me I can't see any advantage to limiting yourself in that way. That's pretty much the big picture point. It sucks and there's no real advantage for SCEA to limit themselves in that way in regard to 3D games. The last 2D PS2 game that I bought was Guilty Gear XX and I absolutely love that game. It's not as though there aren't hundreds of great 2D games that have been released in the last 25 years.

Secondly, your argument makes it sound as though you're saying that it wouldn't be strange for a hardcore 2D gamer's system of choice to be a PS2 (and I would then have to disagree).

[Captain Wrong]

Yeah. A little snarkiness on my part with that "yawn" business, but we've been down this road SO many times. I don't know if I'd characterize building a cannon of mass-market blockbusters as "incredibly stupid". I would use that phrase to describe Sega's efforts with the Dreamcast. Sure they did US a lot of good, but you can't make much of a living off points for orginality.

All I can do is vote with my wallet, and I am... I'm not buying nearly as many new games as I was five years ago, and my DC collection still dwarfs my PS2 collection more than 4 to 1. To complain about it is pointless IMO, kinda like complaining about how terrible Gamestop and EB are.

@Kid...right on. Like the EB thing though, somehow people think getting all indignant on a videogame message board is going to change things. Of course, this topic will come up again with similar results...

[zmweasel]

N/A

[Ed Oscuro]

We aren't "complaining," we're discussing the trends that threaten to flush Sony's market share down the storm drain. I don't believe the folks at Sony are idiots, but they really should make room for more interesting types of games. It's similar to the old days of Nintendo's SOQ and kid-friendly releases, but fortunately the market has grown enough that true creativity has a shot at being rewarded.

[zmweasel]

N/A

[zmweasel]

N/A

[IntvGene]

Zach, I was really only directing my last comment towards you. And, I agree that the situation's terrible. We just attribute it to slightly different causes.. and I was also just trying to offer another side to the discussion.

Of course, the PC market isn't going anywhere, but it would be nice to have a situation where unlicensed games could get published without threat of legal action. There doesn't seem to be much of an alternative. :roll:

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh, hey, looks like I just repeated what Brisco wrote LOL

I personally feel that in a battle of marginal profits, Sony's not doing well in doing everything possible to sand out the bumps and tailor its image to be as generic as possible. Sure, the DS sounds goofy, but ultimately I think of Nintendo when I think of fun...Sony's image is hazier, less well defined or approachable. I'm not expecting Sony to go under, but hey -- if they lose market share as a result of this, we all stand to win. Sounds nasty, but what's truly nasty is the current system.

[Captain Wrong]

@zach, I wasn't aiming my comments at you. Your post was much more relaying the news than rant. The big picture topic here is just one of those evergreen topics that is never productive.

@ed, potato/potatoe. What's the difference?

[Nick Goracke]

I want to play Growlanser

I want to play La Pucelle

No go? Not happy...

Tough to think that a company like WD is, for all intensive purposes, dead in the water now with no other games in the pipeline...