View Full Version : Is DP Hoarding ROMs?
stonic
12-10-2004, 07:20 PM
Sorry, you are heavily incorrect here. If it was an NWC, yes. Prototypes look like copies of copies anyway.
Prototypes (for classic systems, which is what I'm basing my opinion on) are on unique hardware, and thus are much more valuable than having the same image on your hard drive. That goes for protos of games that were released. Ex: a prototype of VCS Combat is worth more than any released Combat cart, because it's 1-of-a-kind (or only a few of a kind). Plus keep in mind that some people will inflate the value of unreleased protos b/c they see it as a chance to make money. To use your example, I doubt most serious collectors would have been willing to spend $3k on that Cali Raisins proto unless they planned to make back their investment somehow (such as selling copies), unless of course they happened to have more money than god :/
As for prototypes of newer games, I don't know if companies use specially-marked cds/media to mark them as such. Since you're in the game industry, you can answer that for us :P
leonk
12-10-2004, 07:52 PM
I think the guy who owned Drac's Night Out could not even get $300 for his game now that everyone has a copy.
This brings up an interesting question, do you think the people that download Drac's night out or buy a repro copy (there was only 1 person who ever did buy it from me, and you can probably guess whom it was!) would have purchased it if it was not dumped?
I have a feeling that real collectors, such as yourself, would just shrug away repros/dumps and will always try to get the real thing. People that don't buy protos because they're dumped.. well.. I have a gut feeling that says they weren't gonna spend the $$$ in the first place.
Lastly, what about games that are released? I'm sure you have many protos of games that were released. That market should always be around untouched, right?
I'm not trying to start a fight or anything. Just interested in how a person of your caliber (a proto collector!) feels about these specific things.
Thanks.
Nature Boy
12-13-2004, 03:15 PM
Prototypes (for classic systems, which is what I'm basing my opinion on) are on unique hardware, and thus are much more valuable than having the same image on your hard drive.
This brings up an interesting question, do you think the people that download Drac's night out or buy a repro copy (there was only 1 person who ever did buy it from me, and you can probably guess whom it was!) would have purchased it if it was not dumped?.
You guys totally missed his point. His point is that those who are willing to spend big bugs on protos (and he speaks from experience) just won't do it if the proto is readily available on the web. And if they won't do it then the value of the proto plummets.
It doesn't matter if it's still worth more than the image on your hard drive, or that Joe Emulator Man wouldn't buy it anyway. What matters is that you hold something that is worth X amount if you distribute and 1/10th of X if you don't distribute it. They're collectors of a different vintage if you will.
DreamTR
12-13-2004, 04:54 PM
Superstonic wrote:
To use your example, I doubt most serious collectors would have been willing to spend $3k on that Cali Raisins proto unless they planned to make back their investment somehow (such as selling copies), unless of course they happened to have more money than god.
If you take the BIGGEST Nes collectors on the planet, the top 1% of them would NOT pay more than $400 for something released on the web. Sorry to say...If the value increases ASTRONOMICALLY based on this, it's hard to argue with facts. If I would have been willing to pay $2K for CRaisins before it was dumped, and NESGod was willing to pay $3K, surely you don't think more super collectors would have jumped at the chance to own the "only" copy in existence?
ubersaurus
12-13-2004, 06:26 PM
Superstonic wrote:
To use your example, I doubt most serious collectors would have been willing to spend $3k on that Cali Raisins proto unless they planned to make back their investment somehow (such as selling copies), unless of course they happened to have more money than god.
If you take the BIGGEST Nes collectors on the planet, the top 1% of them would NOT pay more than $400 for something released on the web. Sorry to say...If the value increases ASTRONOMICALLY based on this, it's hard to argue with facts. If I would have been willing to pay $2K for CRaisins before it was dumped, and NESGod was willing to pay $3K, surely you don't think more super collectors would have jumped at the chance to own the "only" copy in existence?
What protos do you have anyway? I did a search but didn't find anything that wasn't a couple years old.
TheRedEye
12-13-2004, 06:45 PM
What protos do you have anyway? I did a search but didn't find anything that wasn't a couple years old.
Check out the prototypes section in our NES rarity guide database, and add a few more. That's more or less DreamTR's NES collection, just for starters.
For what it's worth, we have substantial evidence (at least, substantial enough for me) that copying a prototype of an unreleased game, even privately, will drive down its cash value. There really isn't any way to argue against that. As I tried to stress earlier, it's just a matter of personal philosophy. Me, I'm happy if I make back MOST of what I spent on a cart by selling it off again. Yes, I often lose money just to get a game out there, but I can't expect everyone to be as retarded as I am. In some cases, prototypes are purchased for a hell of a lot of money, and are protected as an investment. Which is, again, a personal philosophy, and one I don't want to see argued in this thread. Sometimes protos are had for a steal (sometimes literally), and are still protected as an investment. Again, this is the owner's business, and nobody else's.
I'm not accusing anybody. In fact, this thread has remained pretty civil. Just think of these lengthy posts as a preemptive strike.
For what it's worth, we have substantial evidence (at least, substantial enough for me) that copying a prototype of an unreleased game, even privately, will drive down its cash value.
And what evidence is this? I'm not trying to be smart, I am just trying to get a clarified answer. Thanks.
TheRedEye
12-13-2004, 07:12 PM
For what it's worth, we have substantial evidence (at least, substantial enough for me) that copying a prototype of an unreleased game, even privately, will drive down its cash value.
And what evidence is this? I'm not trying to be smart, I am just trying to get a clarified answer. Thanks.
California Raisins: Initial offer was $3,000, sold for $700 after dumping.
Hero Quest: Sold for...hell, I don't remember what I got, $450? I would estimate the undumped value to be at least $900-1,000.
This is only NES, of course, which is about all I've really paid attention to.
I agree with the California Raisins bit. I was more refering to "that copying a prototype of an unreleased game, even privately," the privately part. I think it is fairly easy to assess that the Hero Quest prototype did not sell for nearly as much because (no offense) you had owned/dumped it. Since you run Lost Levels, I imagine that a lot of people felt that the game rom would be leaked at some point or another.
TheRedEye
12-13-2004, 07:54 PM
Okay, if you want something a little less well-known, a certain unreleased Jaleco game has yet to be sold to anybody because the screenshots provided by the seller were very obviously from an emulator.
Plus, he was asking a mint. Back me up here, Wilson, you know what I'm talking about.
Jorpho
12-13-2004, 10:32 PM
Speaking of rare ROMs, is there still no dump of the CBS version of Victory for the Colecovision? (It's a darn good game, and much better than the other version, but it appears that only the crappy non-CBS version was ever dumped.)
In regard to the game, GG?
Alright, lets leave it at that. I get your point. However, I honestly believe that if the game is dumped, and the dumper is someone who is associated with releasing roms, then that may play a bit of a factor. Part of a factor, but a factor none the less. But yeah, let's just leave it at that.
swlovinist
12-14-2004, 03:20 AM
I am sure it has been said before time and time again, but anyone who has a prototype of a one of a kind does not have to DUMP SHIT. As a collector, I have acquired some, not alot of some rare rare games. I have been asked to dump these, as for everyone else to play them. I sold the rare rare games, and did decline politely to not dump them. I feel strongly that if someone has a one of kind game and they do not want to share it, by golly that is thier right. As a collector, knowing that I have somthing nobody else has is pretty cool. I also agree with the posts on the degrading of values. A one of kind proto nondumped can fetch high $$$$. Once it is released on the net, watch the value go down. I know that there is a stong sense of collabration on this site, but I do believe that there is a difference between collabration and jealousy.
TheRedEye
12-14-2004, 12:34 PM
In regard to the game, GG?
Yeah. I don't know why I'm making it sound all secret, I just don't know what's going on with that damned game.
DreamTR
12-14-2004, 09:25 PM
GG. Gawd. The guy wanted $2500 for the game. He also had some other games from the same company that he wanted about the same amount of money for. Of course, knowing the games can and might be released would cause reason for panic. NO ONE has forked over the money for said game because it is indeed dumped.
Now, I have an unreleased undumped Dungeons and Dragons: Dragons of Flame game in Englsh with Nintendo of America title screen that might fetch a pretty penny on ebay. That to me is worth more than GG, but GG is not worth $2500.
SoulBlazer
12-14-2004, 09:31 PM
I remember reading previews of that D&D game, is it any good? I always wanted to play that one....
I remember reading previews of that D&D game, is it any good? I always wanted to play that one....
It was released in Japan. I never played it, but judging by the rest of the series...ack.
TheRedEye
12-14-2004, 10:14 PM
What he said.
TheRedEye
12-14-2004, 11:51 PM
If you take the BIGGEST Nes collectors on the planet, the top 1% of them would NOT pay more than $400 for something released on the web. Sorry to say...If the value increases ASTRONOMICALLY based on this, it's hard to argue with facts. If I would have been willing to pay $2K for CRaisins before it was dumped, and NESGod was willing to pay $3K, surely you don't think more super collectors would have jumped at the chance to own the "only" copy in existence?
Then they're buying it for different reasons than I would. I'd be spending (accordingly) to have a rare item. Prototype arcade games sell for big money all the time, but personally I wouldn't spend that much simply to have a copy of the game- it would also be to have the unique hardware that goes with it. Plus it's been proven (just recently in fact) that plunking down big money for the sole reason of trying to secure the only copy of something isn't a smart investment because you never really know if your copy is the only one in existence - a magazine reviewer may have kept a copy, or one may surface from some old lab computer equipment, etc. In that case, those kinds of 'collectors' drive up the price higher than it realistically should be IMO.
You're absolutely right about never knowing whether or not a cart is the ONLY copy. I can name three California Raisins carts accounted for off the top of my head, not to mention the final binary code that the programmer kept.
DreamTR
12-15-2004, 03:13 AM
I used to make NWCs in my basement downstairs. IN fact, someone in the Neo Geo community claimed to know how I did this and was selling them! I MUST MAKE MORE!
Cleatis
12-15-2004, 05:53 AM
Feel free to ask about anything else you may suspect I have.
John
I hear you have the Tomb Raider nude code. Dont be a nude code hoarder, John. Im angry and I demand my rights!