Is DP Hoarding ROMs?

[CX2K]

For the record: The only unreleased ROMs I have are those who where send to me to analyze (and/or fix) them. I only got them because I promised not to forward them to anybody. It would be a very bad action if I would have broken my promises like you wanted me too.

I can't tell you how happy I am that you said that Thomas. Firstly, you have fallen victim to one of the lies about us that has become truth over the years. You know the saying, "the more a lie is told, the more it becomes the truth".

We do not have all these tons of unreleased roms that people think we do.

Second, how are we different from you? Many (if not most) of the few unreleased roms we do have belong to other people who have asked us not to pass them around. Sean, Joe, and I have been archiving protos long before many of the people here today were even on the internet. So how come we're crucified because we have roms on our hard drives that we've archived for others yet it's o.k. for you to do the same thing?

John

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Second, how are we different from you? Many (if not most) of the few unreleased roms we do have belong to other people who have asked us not to pass them around. Sean, Joe, and I have been archiving protos long before many of the people here today were even on the internet. So how come we're crucified because we have roms on our hard drives that we've archived for others yet it's o.k. for you to do the same thing?
Unlike some other person posting actively in this thread, I wouldn't accuse anybody for doing that. IMO trust is something very important and breaking a promise ruins it completly.

I was under the (wrong?) impression that you (also) "hoard" ROMs which you could release if you wanted to and thought that's what you are getting accused for. So, please tell me, is that true or not?

[CX2K]

I was under the (wrong?) impression that you (also) "hoard" ROMs which you could release if you wanted to and thought that's what you are getting accused for. So, please tell me, is that true or not?

I'll let you answer that question about whether or not we are rom hoarders, Thomas.

Here are the roms that we have in our possession but have not released.

2600
-----------------
Wings - a glitchy copy that seems to have suffered bit-rot. We're trying to get another version.
Another Videa game - complete and looks good.

5200
----------------
Tumbleweeds - a game for the unreleased puffer. Barely a game.

7800
----------------
Sirius - Doesn't work properly. Need help making it work right.
Plutos - Doesn't work properly. Need help making it work right.
Missing in Action - Doesn't work properly. Need help making it work right.

There you have it. Our big treasure trove of games. (3) 7800 games that we've already enlisted help in trying to make them work. (1) 5200 game - a demo more than a game. And (2) 2600 games, one of which doesn't function properly.

So Thomas, what's your verdict?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

2600
-----------------
Wings - a glitchy copy that seems to have suffered bit-rot. We're trying to get another version.
If the bitrot is not too worse I could help you fixing it.


There you have it. Our big treasure trove of games. (3) 7800 games that we've already enlisted help in trying to make them work. (1) 5200 game - a demo more than a game. And (2) 2600 games, one of which doesn't function properly.

So Thomas, what's your verdict?
My opinion, please. I am not in any position for a "verdict".

Following your list above, I wouldn't call that "ROM hoarding" at all. Ok?

Just to finally end any discussion, what about a few other ROMs that you are "suspected" by some people to hoard: Underworld
Look Ahead
Sky Fox demo (7800) Right or wrong?

[CX2K]

Just to finally end any discussion, what about a few other ROMs that you are "suspected" by some people to hoard: Underworld
Look Ahead
Sky Fox demo (7800) Right or wrong?

Underworld - This is something created by Matt's imagination. When we bought the rights to the CommaVid games, we found a cassette tape that said "Underworld" on it. That's it. We have no idea what is on it nor do we currently have any of finding out. Although, we are working on trying to see if anything exists.

Look Ahead - We do have that one. Sorry I didn't mention it. But we have no agreement currently to release it.

7800 Sky Fox Demo - Unless I'm mistaken, this is on a HD that we got out of Atari. The only way we were able to run it was by hooking it up to an ST development kit for the 7800. I'd be happy to pass it around the next time I set up my ST (hopefully before the end of the year). Thing is, it's probably not a rom but rather the actual source files that need to be loaded into the dev. kit.

Feel free to ask about anything else you may suspect I have.

John

[Thomas Jentzsch]

[Feel free to ask about anything else you may suspect I have.
Thanks.

BTW: I don't "suspect" you to have anything, simply because I don't know much about this prototype "business" at all. :)

[stonic]

But maybe DP has finally changed its policy and will release all other ROMs now too. Then I will be first to admit that I was wrong.

DP (Joe) has always shared games whenever possible (Apollo's Pompeii and CommaVid's Frog demo immediately come to mind, and I'm sure Joe can give you a complete listing if required).

You admitting you were wrong about something? Now, that *would* be a 'first'. While you're at it, maybe you can explain what you meant by your "DP's previous records" statement.


BTW: I don't "suspect" you to have anything, simply because I don't know much about this prototype "business" at all.

You don't, but yet you immediately had a list of titles to inquire about...



Following your list above, I wouldn't call that "ROM hoarding" at all. Ok? Just to finally end any discussion, what about a few other ROMs that you are "suspected" by some people to hoard......

Translation- "It's not that I don't believe you, but...I don't believe you"



(ROM hoarding) Unlike some other person posting actively in this thread, I wouldn't accuse anybody for doing that.

You know damn well I don't accuse anyone of anything unless I have some facts to back it up. Or should I start listing "suspected" titles?



Actually I (tried to?) made a joke about AA's political/religious "discussions" (=flames) often being way more childish than anything on DP.

Wonderful sense of humor you folks have over there. That's almost as funny as being called a "DP Nazi". :o
You should go into comedy. Or better yet, pick up a new German-to-English dictionary.



Sorry, If you didn't get it.

We get it all right.....we get it all the time lately from certain 'characters' :roll:



(Wings) If the bitrot is not too worse I could help you fixing it.

:shameful:

I'm sure you could. A year ago I might have asked for your help. But since your attitude towards DP (and myself especially) has taken on a morose tone lately, that is no longer possible. You'll get your chance to look at the code the same time everyone else does. And in case you're wondering who am *I* to make such a statement, I'm the one who found and archived both Targ and Wings, AND is allowing both to be available for *free*, unlike some of your pals, who would rather use it as an opportunity to make money, or to stroke their own egos. Rather unexpected, from someone who has no love of the hobby any more, isn't it?

Do us and everyone else on this board a favor - stick to working with code, because lately your social interactions aren't that enjoyable.

[SS]

[Look Ahead - We do have that one. Sorry I didn't mention it. But we have no agreement currently to release it.

John, can you give any details about this one? I've heard that it may be a puzzle game of some type but nobody seems to know much more about it. I'm very curious.

[punkoffgirl]

I'm sorry, but why is it called ROM "hoarding"? What's so bad about having ROMs you haven't released? Why is that evil? Does it make babies cry? Keep the elderly from getting their pension checks? Dry up all the wells in the county?

[-hellvin-]

IT'S EVIL I TELL YOU!

EVIL!!!!!!

[Raedon]

Eww.... *GETS SOME POPCORN*

[Ed Oscuro]

Dry up all the wells in the county?
Quite the opposite, actually - this stuff can make a septic tank overflow like nobody's business, right into the bathroom...the kitchen...the living room...the forums...I thought I saw a Hulk bubbling up out of the drain, actually...but you know, all this rom-hoarding (I prefer the term "ROM whoring," as it's much more precise and I am proud to be a ROM whore) can get to my head.

Whoa...the very thought of keeping an unreleased prototype secreted away from the public almost brought me to orgasm. Almost! Hey, it's better than having to kill a dog, right?

...hold me.

[zektor]

I have some roms nobody has! :D

[Raedon]

I have some roms nobody has! :D

So do I!! Who wants a dump from a obscure C64 diag cart that needs a plug board to work? I oWnZ you all...

[Ed Oscuro]

I have some roms nobody has! :D
I'll meet your ROMs and raise you a...NEW ZEALAND FIVER! W0OT

[davidleeroth]

I'm sorry, but why is it called ROM "hoarding"? What's so bad about having ROMs you haven't released? Why is that evil? Does it make babies cry? Keep the elderly from getting their pension checks? Dry up all the wells in the county?

I'm with PoG, although it does make babies cry.

[SpasticFuctard]

Not just any old babies either, it makes my army of infant clone Jesuses cry.

You bastards, making a million genetically identical infant messiahs cry.

SF - Clone Baby Jesuses, ATTACK!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

#!%#?$!!...
You really need an ignore button on DP. -_-

[Daria]

#!%#?$!!...
You really need an ignore button on DP. -_-

But then who would see you post? :)

(don't mind me, just couldn't resist)

[Sniderman]

#!%#?$!!...
You really need an ignore button on DP. -_- Or we could just lock the thread and remove any posts we don't agree with. Regularly. Just sayin', is all.

[ghsqb]

#!%#?$!!...
You really need an ignore button on DP. -_- Or we could just lock the thread and remove any posts we don't agree with. Regularly. Just sayin', is all.
LOL

someone got pwned.

[Sniderman]

Actually, with the release of Meltdown and Targ and - rumor has it - more free ROMs on the way, it appears that CGE/DP aren't hording ROMS, but rather whoring ROMs! LOL

[Raedon]

#!%#?$!!...
You really need an ignore button on DP. -_-

But then who would see you post? :)

(don't mind me, just couldn't resist)

LOL

http://home.cablelynx.com/~tsouthern/dollar.jpg
I'd by that for a Dollar!! (http://home.cablelynx.com/~tsouthern/buythat.mp3)

[vespertillio]

Actually, with the release of Meltdown and Targ and - rumor has it - more free ROMs on the way, it appears that CGE/DP aren't hording ROMS, but rather whoring ROMs! LOL

\^_^/ What is the average price of a whored ROM these days?

You know, I’m not a very religious man, but the mentioning of the Messiah in this topic has got me to thinking about something I will call (for this topic anyway) the Messiah mindset. (If this is actually a true complex please forgive my misuse of it here) It seems that there are a few variations of it floating around here.

1. I have the power. You want the power? You can’t have the power.
2. I have the power. You want the power? It’s yours, for a price.
3. I have the power. You want the power? Take it and go in peace my friend.

There are more I can add but what this power boils down to is leadership, respect and hopefully in the end, understanding.

In this hobby, like ALL others, there are those rare few; the leaders, the scribes, the scientists, the historians and even the jesters who take the faith or hobby true to the heart. While most others (the congregation, the followers or parishioners if it pleases) are true to the hobby but just not on the level that leaders have embraced it. It is that heightened level of commitment and desire that forces them to look for any little artifact of history, no matter how significant to add to the library if you will. They go above and beyond to make sure this information is found and brought to light and we all respect and look up to them for that. What happens though, when such information is found? When that power has finally been brought to light? It is then that the struggle of the self begins; and a mighty struggle it is. I won’t even bother trying to explain what goes on in ones mind when this moment happens, as we have all experienced it in one form or the other. We all know everyone is different and that decisions like these do not come easily. Factors of the past, present and future come into play when making these decisions and only the individuals involved are privy to all the variables. Once that decision has been made, we the people of course then have our own ideas of how the decision should have been made or how it all transpired. Suffice it to say, how it went down is really none of our business. Sides will be taken of course. Ego’s threatened of course. Conclusions will be made based on the information at hand and unfortunately lines will be drawn. What has to be understood here is that we are all in this together and how we interact with each other, be it on the forums or out in the world, will be documented and passed down to next generation of enthusiasts ready to take over the mantle. The history will continue to be written, scrutinized, judged and maybe even rewritten. It will go on long after we have gone. While we are here now, let us all enjoy what we have. Understand that we all have our little differences and learn from each other for the good of not only the hobby but for the next generation.

Whew! That being said, let us all go out right now and play a few of our favorite games. Play something that will remind you of why you love this hobby so much. Most off, have fun. Game on!

V

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Wise words!

[rbudrick]

Hmmm, well, it's never been a problem for me. No issue of self ever came about me. Whenever I get a proto, I do my damndest to give the rom to everyone, just because I see it as the right thing to do.

However, my protos, for the most part haven't been dumped (or rather, no one will/can dump them). Am I hoarding roms? Yeah, but not by choice. Who's gonna dump these for me?: :D

NES protos:
Terminator 2
Double Dragon 2
Game Action Replay (I think one man on earth can do this one and he doesn't repsond to emails)

Ahh, crap, there's a few others I can't remember...a GB cart or 2 also, oh, plus a couple SNES...

-Rob

[Flack]

Is DP Hoarding ROMs?

I sure hope so -- just about everyone they've been accused of hoarding, they've released!

[AlanD]

Game Action Replay (I think one man on earth can do this one and he doesn't repsond to emails)


Don't worry about dumping that if it is the original release version. The person you are trying to reach dumped my copy of it about 4 years ago. Now if it is a proto that is a different story.

As for the other 2, if they have eproms in them I can dump them. Just send them over by mail and I'll dump them, return them and email you the rom file. You would have the only copy other than the backup on a CD here which would never be released.
AlanD

[TheRedEye]

Jesus Alan, what's with your new avatar?

[AlanD]

Hahaha just wanted to see how long it would take for someone to notice the Pengo Porn (tm) :)

[Flack]

Hmmm, well, it's never been a problem for me. No issue of self ever came about me. Whenever I get a proto, I do my damndest to give the rom to everyone, just because I see it as the right thing to do.

However, my protos, for the most part haven't been dumped (or rather, no one will/can dump them). Am I hoarding roms? Yeah, but not by choice. Who's gonna dump these for me?: :D

NES protos:
Terminator 2
Double Dragon 2
Game Action Replay (I think one man on earth can do this one and he doesn't repsond to emails)

Ahh, crap, there's a few others I can't remember...a GB cart or 2 also, oh, plus a couple SNES...

-Rob

I can always do those SNES ones for you as well.

[vespertillio]

Hmmm, well, it's never been a problem for me. No issue of self ever came about me. Whenever I get a proto, I do my damndest to give the rom to everyone, just because I see it as the right thing to do.

However, my protos, for the most part haven't been dumped (or rather, no one will/can dump them). Am I hoarding roms? Yeah, but not by choice. Who's gonna dump these for me?: :D

NES protos:
Terminator 2
Double Dragon 2
Game Action Replay (I think one man on earth can do this one and he doesn't repsond to emails)

Ahh, crap, there's a few others I can't remember...a GB cart or 2 also, oh, plus a couple SNES...
-Rob

While you can say that the issue of self never comes into play, you are slightly wrong. You have the items in hand. It is then that the issue of self comes into play. In your case you took the selflessness route (kudos by the way) and offered them free to the world. It's the times where you have the object and are deciding what to do with it is where your dealings with the self occur. :D

[rbudrick]

While you can say that the issue of self never comes into play, you are slightly wrong. You have the items in hand. It is then that the issue of self comes into play. In your case you took the selflessness route (kudos by the way) and offered them free to the world. It's the times where you have the object and are deciding what to do with it is where your dealings with the self occur.

Yeah, I guess. It was just never a really very conscious decision...just seemed natural.

Quote:
Game Action Replay (I think one man on earth can do this one and he doesn't repsond to emails)




Don't worry about dumping that if it is the original release version. The person you are trying to reach dumped my copy of it about 4 years ago. Now if it is a proto that is a different story.

As for the other 2, if they have eproms in them I can dump them. Just send them over by mail and I'll dump them, return them and email you the rom file. You would have the only copy other than the backup on a CD here which would never be released.
AlanD

Yep, it is indeed a proto...I believe only a couple exist (maybe 1, hmmmm...) but it is definitely different from the release version.

Oh, and thanks! PM me your address and I'll definitely do that. Very much appreciated. Oh, btw...I don't think all the eeproms are socketed. Would they have to be desoldered (cuz that could suck)?


I can always do those SNES ones for you as well. Thanks, Flack! COuld you send me your info as well?

Thanks so much!

-Rob

[DracIsBack2]

I admit - I also thought that there was ROM hoarding going on with the 7800 games. To me (not a regular DigitPRess-goer) that these games were shown at one show and then they were buried - not a screen shot, not a description, not a ROM posted. I guess we're just spoiled in that some folks at AtariAge will find a lost game and immediately try to share as much as they can ... GATO, PIT FIGHTER, RESCUE ON FRACTALUS and KLAX all come to mind.

The 7800 is a big mystery as far as lost games go ... possibly the hardest Atari system to find these gems for. So it seemed as though (incorrectly) that the games were being deliberately hoarded.

Are you able to post a couple screenshots or a description of the games: Sirius, Plutos or Missing In Action? Or even a ROM file for Cuttle Cart owners?

[Sniderman]

Are you able to post a couple screenshots or a description of the games: Sirius, Plutos or Missing In Action? Or even a ROM file for Cuttle Cart owners?

From earlier in this same thread:


7800
----------------
Sirius - Doesn't work properly. Need help making it work right.
Plutos - Doesn't work properly. Need help making it work right.
Missing in Action - Doesn't work properly. Need help making it work right.

Not to drag this out, but how would one get a screenshot of a game that isn't working? And why post a broken, non-wqrking ROM?

[badinsults]

Lots of people who accuse people of "hoarding" only want it for their "good" sets. There are some roms that I would like to get for the snes, but the person who dumped them does not wish to release them. I would just hope that anyone who does not wish to release a dumped unreleased game that works that they make available images and a description of the game. That would satisfy me.

[buttasuperb]

I already have ALL the romz.


I have some roms nobody has! :D

And I have a game NOBODY has the romz of. woot!

[autobotracing]

Eww.... *GETS SOME POPCORN*

joins you 8-) LOL

[Kid Ice]

I already have ALL the romz.


I have some roms nobody has! :D

And I have a game NOBODY has the romz of. woot!

LOL

At least this stinky-ass corpse of a thread wasn't resurrected in vain.

[Funky Charms]

There are some roms that I would like to get for the snes, but the person who dumped them does not wish to release them.


IMO, they should release them. Big deal if a rom gets out. You know you have the original cart, you know what its worth, and your the only one with it. I personally do not think it devalues a collection. $20 is worth $20. Counterfit $20 is worth $0. "OMG Someone is playing my game that was never released!".....So? Someone playing a game does not make it worth less. WHen people to go to a movie and watch a movie (btw throw some of that popcorn from above down here), the movie make's more money, the people who made the movie does not make less and less money everytime someone watch's it.

[badinsults]

There are some roms that I would like to get for the snes, but the person who dumped them does not wish to release them.


IMO, they should release them. Big deal if a rom gets out. You know you have the original cart, you know what its worth, and your the only one with it. I personally do not think it devalues a collection. $20 is worth $20. Counterfit $20 is worth $0. "OMG Someone is playing my game that was never released!".....So? Someone playing a game does not make it worth less. WHen people to go to a movie and watch a movie (btw throw some of that popcorn from above down here), the movie make's more money, the people who made the movie does not make less and less money everytime someone watch's it.

Some people worry that the value of their unreleased proto will go down if the rom is released. I think it is discussed in other threads.

[DracIsBack2]

Not to drag this out, but how would one get a screenshot of a game that isn't working? And why post a broken, non-wqrking ROM?

Depends on what BROKEN is. If Sirius runs but crashes after a minute or MISSING IN ACTION can't be reproduced on duplicate 7800 boards but may run on an emulator, some stuff is possible.

There are those of us that are interested in games, even if not fully functioning or crash prone.

[Ed Oscuro]

I already have ALL the romz.


I have some roms nobody has! :D

And I have a game NOBODY has the romz of. woot!
http://home.comcast.net/~edoscuro/rom_protected.png

Note the authentic "Snow on Snow White Shadow-Retardant Plaid" blanket this ROM is sitting on. Oh, did I mention the blanket has antistatic properties?

[digitalpress]

A nice little Thanksgiving treat for you ROM lovers, courtesy of Scott "superstonic" Stilphen.

http://www.digitpress.com/archives/cc_prototypes.htm

Enjoy and have a great holiday!

[RichD]

Thank You Joe and crew for the Romz unhoarding. I believe the
Mystery Activision Color Demo version with two variations is on the GBA Activision Anthology.

[pixelsnpolygons]

This stuff is way above my head... so I'll just :) and say I enjoyed reading this thread anyway.

[rbudrick]

Well, I recently came across a Game Doctor SF7 for my SNES. I have one or two SNES protos I need to dump (maybe 1...I gotta check). If I dump the game to floppies on the sf7 floppy drive, can I just insert the floppies into my PC and copy the files over (I think the games will be larger than 1 floppy)? What command line do I use to merge them? Should i convert them to smc or swc format (I've seen both in emulators, I believe).

Or, should I just connect the SF7 via parrallel port and dump the game? What's the best command line for this?

Yeah, I'm an SF7 newb...:-)

I know you said you could dump these Flack, but I figured I'd give it a shot just for the experience. :-)

Thanks to anyone who can help me unh0rd 73h r0mz.

-Rob

[TRM]

I'm hording some roms!!!! But in all honesty, I know some nes folks who are hording a lot.

[TheRedEye]

Oh man, why was this stinky topic bumped to MY forum?

[Jred]

Change all the word "Romz" with "Anime" and send it to the Anime, Anyone? (Forum du Jour) forum. See if anyone notices.

[digitalpress]

Oh man, why was this stinky topic bumped to MY forum?

Because...


A nice little Thanksgiving treat for you ROM lovers, courtesy of Scott "superstonic" Stilphen.

http://www.digitpress.com/archives/cc_prototypes.htm

Enjoy and have a great holiday!

I didn't want anyone to miss these - the topic dropped like a rock on the main forum, I figured the people checking in here would care more.

[TheRedEye]

Oh man, why was this stinky topic bumped to MY forum?

Because...


A nice little Thanksgiving treat for you ROM lovers, courtesy of Scott "superstonic" Stilphen.

http://www.digitpress.com/archives/cc_prototypes.htm

Enjoy and have a great holiday!

I didn't want anyone to miss these - the topic dropped like a rock on the main forum, I figured the people checking in here would care more.

Makes sense. I'll treat 'er good, Joe.

[SegaAges]

i never show up during the weekend.

sweet, more cool roms from joe. that rocks dude

[Jorpho]

Well, I recently came across a Game Doctor SF7 for my SNES. I have one or two SNES protos I need to dump (maybe 1...I gotta check). If I dump the game to floppies on the sf7 floppy drive, can I just insert the floppies into my PC and copy the files over (I think the games will be larger than 1 floppy)? What command line do I use to merge them? Should i convert them to smc or swc format (I've seen both in emulators, I believe).

Or, should I just connect the SF7 via parrallel port and dump the game? What's the best command line for this?

Yeah, I'm an SF7 newb...:-)

I know you said you could dump these Flack, but I figured I'd give it a shot just for the experience. :-)

Thanks to anyone who can help me unh0rd 73h r0mz.

You've tried UCON64 (http://ucon64.sourceforge.net) already? Failing that, apparently the newly-released Super Sleuth SNES emulator has some SNES ROM dumping capabilities.

(I'd love to see the SNES version of Impossible Mission 2525 one day.)

[ArnoldRimmer83]

Interesting story behind Pitfall. I'm glad they ended up giving you lives.

[zektor]

I'm sorry, but why is it called ROM "hoarding"? What's so bad about having ROMs you haven't released? Why is that evil? Does it make babies cry? Keep the elderly from getting their pension checks? Dry up all the wells in the county?

Well, when you "hoard" these roms, you are not only hoarding them from a few folks, but all of mankind! What on earth would we do with ourselves if we never get ahold of these amazing hoarded rom files? Perhaps finally test and play the other 1,000,000 or so other rom files sitting on our PC's that we never tried... all because we were too busy trying to gather more and more! :)

[DreamTR]

People might not horde ROMS if they were offered sums of money from groups to DUMP their ROM or CART because the value does drop significantly, but then again, why am I even bothering posting this? LOL

[TheRedEye]

People might not horde ROMS if they were offered sums of money from groups to DUMP their ROM or CART because the value does drop significantly, but then again, why am I even bothering posting this? LOL

That is an excellent question.

[ubersaurus]

People might not horde ROMS if they were offered sums of money from groups to DUMP their ROM or CART because the value does drop significantly, but then again, why am I even bothering posting this? LOL

It would depend on how much said sum is. If it's quite a bit, they may as well just buy the cart off of the owner and dump it themselves. At least, it makes sense to me.

[izret101]

I was under the impression that dumping a rom could drastically reduce the price of a game.
Why not dump it, sell the proto THEN spread the rom around the web and buy it back cheaper than you sold it(if lucky enough)?

I guess i am not very good at sharing when large sums of money might be involved.


But seeing as i really don't know what i am talking about i will grab some popcorn with the others... assuming there is some left and its not stale.

[DreamTR]

izret, cause that is pretty dirty to do to someone. How would you like to pay $1000 for something you thought and were told was one of a kind, then the next door kid burned it onto a cart a week later for 2 hrs labor? I'd be pretty ticked myself.

[TheRedEye]

izret, cause that is pretty dirty to do to someone. How would you like to pay $1000 for something you thought and were told was one of a kind, then the next door kid burned it onto a cart a week later for 2 hrs labor? I'd be pretty ticked myself.

As much money as I've gone through dumping games, and as poor and starving as I get at times, I'd never consider doing this to anyone. Please, no one do this.

[esquire]

My question then would be:

"If you are never going to sell the cart/proto why do you even care the value of it on the open market?"

The price shouldn't mean anything unless you are going to sell it one day. I am similarly bewildered by people who collect sports cards, memorabilia, etc. They always tell me that such and such a card is worth X amount of dollars, to which I always respond, it's not worth anything until you sell it.

I understand that people may want to charge $ to dump a ROM so they may get reimbursed for the investment; however, I completely do not understand why people are against dumping because they feel that the subsequent copies that appear from the dumping may de-value the price of the orginal. If they are never going to sell it, who cares??

[izret101]

izret, cause that is pretty dirty to do to someone. How would you like to pay $1000 for something you thought and were told was one of a kind, then the next door kid burned it onto a cart a week later for 2 hrs labor? I'd be pretty ticked myself.

Just asking a question.
But i see no purpose in dumping a half completed ROM for a system either. Why not just keep it to say ""I have this really cool proto and it is worth a bunch of money."
I don't part with anything i get that is one of a kind or hard to find. I have yet to have enough money trouble to have to sell anything i own.
But then if the time comes that you would need to and you say "I can just sell a proto or 2 and be fine." Then you remember you dumped them all to share and the value got dropped a ton.

Again it was just a question.

[DreamTR]

"If you are never going to sell the cart/proto why do you even care the value of it on the open market?"

Who said I would never sell anything? I never once wrote in blood, "I AM KEEPING EVERY PROTO I OWN EVER." I buy and sell things all the time. Of course, your response about something not being worth anything til you sell it is naive. Then I guess nothing is worth anything in life. All material objects are worth nothing. Houses, blah! Gold, cars, NOTHING!

You also wrote:
I completely do not understand why people are against dumping because they feel that the subsequent copies that appear from the dumping may de-value the price of the orginal. If they are never going to sell it, who cares??

I am not against dumping. I am against people who THINK and BELIEVE they have a right to play an NES game for free after someone paid $1000 and don't contribute anything to it. I know you are not necessarily talking to me, but hearsay and rumors can only make you look silly when you actually ask me a direct question and hear a totally different answer.

[ubersaurus]

"If you are never going to sell the cart/proto why do you even care the value of it on the open market?"

Who said I would never sell anything? I never once wrote in blood, "I AM KEEPING EVERY PROTO I OWN EVER." I buy and sell things all the time. Of course, your response about something not being worth anything til you sell it is naive. Then I guess nothing is worth anything in life. All material objects are worth nothing. Houses, blah! Gold, cars, NOTHING!

You also wrote:
I completely do not understand why people are against dumping because they feel that the subsequent copies that appear from the dumping may de-value the price of the orginal. If they are never going to sell it, who cares??

I am not against dumping. I am against people who THINK and BELIEVE they have a right to play an NES game for free after someone paid $1000 and don't contribute anything to it. I know you are not necessarily talking to me, but hearsay and rumors can only make you look silly when you actually ask me a direct question and hear a totally different answer.

I'll give you 5 bucks for a copy of the N64 Harrier game ;)

[TheRedEye]

Okay, god dammit, here's the deal.

Some videogames are axed, for various reasons. Some people, like us, have such a passion for our hobby that they'll put extra effort into playing games they were never meant to. Sometimes scoring these games requires some legwork, sometimes it requires lots and lots of money. In the end, through whatever means was necessary, a person ends up with a very rare copy of a game that never hit the market, perhaps the only copy in the world.

That person owns the physical object, whether that person is technically allowed to or not for legality reasons. This really isn't an issue. What that person does with said object is his or her business. If that person wants to mass produce copies under the radar of the original copyright holder, it's none of your business. If that person wants to hold on to the only copy of the game for the rest of his life, that's also none of your business. If that person wants to light the game on fire and piss into the ashes, that's also none of your business. If that person wants to copy the code and share it, either privately or publically, that's also none of your business. If I want to take a guy home with me tonight, if she wants to be a freak and sell it on the weekend, it's none of your business. Legality aside, and we've all broken some stupid little law in our lives, someone who physically owns a prototype can do whatever the hell he or she wants to do with it.

Some hold the philosophy that information should be spread freely and, to an extent, I fall into this category. That DOES NOT MEAN that there is no other viewpoint here. Some people hold differing viewpoints, that's real life folks. I'll give you an example, from a conversation I had with Buyatari ages ago. Let's say there is a rare, perhaps one-of-a-kind classic automobile stored at a museum. Enthusiasts will travel to that museum, and will enjoy it. It will be a special moment, and that treasure will be properly preserved forever, with access to anyone who really wants it. Now let's say that the car was flawlessly copied and mass-produced, and everyone can now own the same damn car and drive it off a cliff if they want to. Does that take away the mystic appeal of the original? Maybe.

And maybe you don't hold that viewpoint. Maybe your philosophy is that everyone ought to be able to have whatever they want. Maybe you think that, because of some deep love you have for playing videogames, you have some inherent right to be able to play a game that someone else has.

Is your belief in some intangible "gamer's right" any different than Buyatari's belief in an intangible "mystical quality?"

Is your hardcore philosophy that information should be free any different than someone's hardcore philosophy that they should be reimbursed for their work?

There is no end to this debate. People have opinions, and a set of beliefs. Without these, life would be boring. Hell, to give an easy and relevant example, if everyone was finding and sharing every unreleased game they found, I certainly wouldn't be exerting the effort I put in to get these out myself.

So. With that said, I am the moderator here, and I refuse to see any pointless bickering. If I see any posts that contribute nothing but whining, one way or the other, I will close this thread. I've been a part of this argument for too many years now, and there is no resolution, other than to understand the opposing side's viewpoint and try to live harmoniously. DreamTR and I may hold a lot of differing philosophies, and we may argue about this shit from time to time, but I still consider him a friend and a good man. If you don't like the way this prototype hobby works, do something about it. Show your viewpoint by example, not by promoting a neverending circular argument.

[stonic]

Well said.
Damn straight....f'n 'A'

My opinion is much the same as yours - they should be enjoyed by everyone, as originally intended. I've had discussions with several programmers about this very subject. When they hear someone found a game of theirs that wasn't released and made it available, they're thrilled that a) it still existed, and b) people are interested in it and/or enjoy playing it, since often they spent x months of their lives working on it (and it's nice to know it wasn't wasted). A few have even helped with selling copies of them, which is great since they - above anyone else - deserve to earn something for their efforts (although, unless they were a free-lance programmer, the company they worked for actually owned the game...)

As for the possibility of copies devaluing an authentic proto, your car museum analogy was spot-on. The original will always be valuable. To use another example, millions of copies of the Beatles White album were produced, but any serious music collector would give their eye teeth to own the master tape. Consequently, if somehow came to possess it, the only way I legally could is if I got it from whoever owns the rights to it. Which means I'd have no more legal right to have it - even if I paid big money for it - than the neighbor who just d/l it for free. AFAIK, as the law is now, you are allowed to make a back-up (archival) copy, only if you own a legal copy of the original.

[esquire]

I am not against dumping. I am against people who THINK and BELIEVE they have a right to play an NES game for free after someone paid $1000 and don't contribute anything to it. I know you are not necessarily talking to me, but hearsay and rumors can only make you look silly when you actually ask me a direct question and hear a totally different answer.

No, not reading a post in its entirety, and then going off on it for no reason makes YOU look silly.

Had you carefully read my post you would have noticed the following:


I understand that people may want to charge $ to dump a ROM so they may get reimbursed for the investment

Sheez. And you were right, my post was not directed at you. I was just voicing my thoughts and opinion on the subject matter.

With respect to your other attack on my post, before you go doing so, you may want to make an analogy that is comparable. Comparing sports cards to homes, cars and gold is completely different. Those items have established value to them based upon quality (cars), location (homes), etc. where sports cards are more based upon popularity and sentimentaility. They are worth only the cardboard they are printed on, or what you paid for them when you buy a pack of cards. A house will always have a set value, that is more likely to increase in value unless you build it on the Mississipi flod plain or San Andreas fault line. Why do you think most of the wealthy people in America have their money invested in real estate and not sports cards?

[qbertandernie]

why is this thread still going?

heres the deal everyone. if im ever rich, im going to buy all of the undumped roms i can find and be buried with them. i might not even play them once. they would be mine and mine alone.
if someone is 'hoarding' they have that right, as they found the game and dropped the money on it.

just because youre a broke ass doesnt mean joe (or anyone else for that matter) should put a one of a kind item up for everyone to play. if you want to buy something and dump it, great. thats your money. otherwise piss off.

sorry, but i was pissed when this thread was posted initially...and it kind of festered i guess.

[Sniderman]

sorry, but i was pissed when this thread was posted initially...and it kind of festered i guess.
http://www.nesplayer.com/reviews/festersquest/fester.jpg

[Gamemaster_ca_2003]

My thoughts on this.

I do agree that we should have access to any unknown rom out but I do aggree that If they don't want to that is fine with me because I respect their decison not to dump them.

[TheRedEye]

blah blah blah

Alright, ya goddam goon, you got the last word in. Good job. Now can it, this argument is stupid and I'm tired of hearing it. If you want to make a difference, go make a difference.

[leonk]

blah blah blah

Alright, ya goddam goon, you got the last word in. Good job. Now can it, this argument is stupid and I'm tired of hearing it. If you want to make a difference, go make a difference.

here here.. amhen to that!

If people have a problem with others holding on to prototypes, then they should buy them and dump them. To each his own..

on another note Frank, check your inbox.

Thanks.

[DreamTR]

Esquire:
Some sports cards hold an incredulous amount of value. All of my thoughts are simple on this matter:

1. I work in the game industry. I do not own an emulator except on a modifed Xbox. I do not condone nor care much about dumping except for preservation of the ROMS.
2. I am FOR preservation of my ROMS. I am NOT for giving out my ROMS for someone to play if I paid large sums of money for them unless I am compensated. They will devalue tremendously which brings me to my next point for number three in response to superstonic:

As for the possibility of copies devaluing an authentic proto, your car museum analogy was spot-on. The original will always be valuable. To use another example, millions of copies of the Beatles White album were produced, but any serious music collector would give their eye teeth to own the master tape.

Sorry, you are heavily incorrect here. If it was an NWC, yes. Prototypes look like copies of copies anyway. Take the case of Callifornia Raisins for example. It wOULD have fetched $3000+ since it was undumped. Since it was released, the original sold for about $400 since the hardcore collectors did not want it. People WILL NOT pay the money for dumped protos since you have to understand, the collectors that DO collect protos do not want something that anyone can get on the web. Comparing the master tape of a Beatles album to this is asinine, as we are a much different group of collectors. I think the guy who owned Drac's Night Out could not even get $300 for his game now that everyone has a copy. I don't know what else to say except that I like to protect my investments, and have been more than willing to distribute "some" of the unreleased stuff I own if compensated. I am a private collector, and like any collector, I am competitive when trying to obtain certain items. I am not out to impress anyone. If I was, you would see pages of my collection bragging on the web. I may have lists of protos, and some pics of NES protos scattered around the web, but it is only to help people with their websites and the HISTORY of these games, which is what fascinates me to collect them in the first place.