Who "Discovered" the Meltdown Proto?

[digitalpress]

Great do we really need to add fuel to the fire? I mean honestly?

Heh, knowing Adam I'd say that was directed at all of us who partake in the childish bickering. It's not fuel for the fire, it's biting social commentary, that.

And of course, it bites :P

[Nature Boy]

Thanks to all involved in bringing these games to us, or even trying to do so. Joe, John, Tempest, Leonard, guys, it doesn't matter - we appreciate ALL of your efforts

Much like the "opinion" post, this hits the nail right on the head. Thanks go to everybody involved in releasing the games (from the people who find the games to the people who help fix 'em and everybody inbetween).

All of this who released what stuff is so *pointless*. Do you think I have *any* idea who released which ROMs I downloaded last week/month/year?

[anagrama]

please ignore my unnecessary blathering

[SpasticFuctard]

Joe is correct:

I am not only an outsider to the AA vs DP feud (I hear this all started because Hardie knocked up a McCoy and didn't do 'the honorable thing') but an outsider to retrogaming collecting in general (I'm one of those PC games you keep hearing about). So from where I sit on my high horse (the high horse of ignorance), You all look pretty damn silly.

Let me enumerate the absurdities I see from my particular vantage:

1) Somebody spent a grand on something that he already knew was damaged goods

2) Some event or series of events in the past has caused a personal emnity between one Mr. John Hardie and some person or persons involved in Atari Age

3) With regards to both of the preceeding absurdities, masses of uninvolved unaffected people have come out of the woodwork to wave their twig and berries at each other, be generally loud and unappealing and denigrate all of those who may or may not be posters on the internet forums that the principles are contributers to.

4) I sat and read through 4 pages here and 14 pages at AA about this, and I don't feel that large chunks of my life have been wasted because I have borne witness to grown men and women get down and dirty over the preceeding 3 items.

5) A retrogamer through action or inaction shall not let a prototype rom be dumped if some other monomaniacal compulsive type is already devoting days of his life to attempting exacting repair of the ROM in question.

6) I like pie.

SF - No really, I do like pie quite a bit.

[Keir]

EDIT: anagrama's cool ;)

[anagrama]

I don’t see what his postcount on AA has to do with anything. Almost everyone on both the DP and AA forums are “neutral outsiders” because this whole business about prototypes has nothing do with us as forum members. It’s been said many times, but this is not a “DP vs. AA” issue.

Bah! Quoted at the same time that I was removing my unnecessary/unhelpful comment. ;) Apologies.

I'll just shut up and "enjoy" teh dR@m@... Nachos, anyone?

[gavv]

Hey, it's national Kiss & Make Up Day! it's a sign! come on guys! :D

gavv

[punkoffgirl]

masses of uninvolved unaffected people have come out of the woodwork to wave their twig and berries at each other

I don't have a twig or berries, I just got stuck with the fig leaves.

[SegaAges]

for some strange reason (call me stupid) but I read through all 4 pages of this, and after finding out that AA had 14 pages, I wasn't about to read all of that.

What I don't understand, is why there is even a fued (don't reply to this part, because I won't read it even though I asked the question).

There are people that like Atari games, good for you. There are people that like more than Atari games, go eat a cookie.

Do I have to say it? Please don;t make me say it. Fine, 4 pages made me say it. I am a HUGE game nerd. SIMPLY MASSIVE. There are people around both forums that are bigger into games than I am, what does that make you. Be proud. Find people like yourself. I am proud of being a game nerd.

What does this have to do with your "lover's quarrels"? Lots. The more both sides try to say they are right, the more they are wrong. BOTH SIDES! Not just DP or AA.

Tempest paid 1k for a game that didn't work. good. I paid 6k for an SUV and my engine blew 2 years after buying it. Shit happens. Deal with it. He wanted to release it, it didn't happen when the DP guy released. Do you think I care? No. Do you guys think I care about who was first, who got credit for releasing it, even who had the copyrights to it. Hell No! I just appreciate that it is out. Just like Sonic Crackers for Genesis. I don't know who released that, and I don't care. Sure the game was buggy, but oh well, I had a chance to play it.

Oh what, both sides like to sell games they get. Good. Just try to stay legal with it.

Man, both sides are lucky that games are being released to download in the 1st place. You punks better enjoy them, because I know I am. I have gotten games from AA and from DP.

You guys have to think of the average joe like me. Give it 2 years when these games are blasted on the net (it won't be from me, but I guarentee they will be), do you honestly think anybody will care who brought it out.

Tempest paid 1k for a proto that isn't all that great. Hey, shit happens.

How was that for flaming? :angry: :angry: :angry:

Screw flaming one side, both sides are crying, both might as well get flamed.

The game is out, whether we like it or not. Many people have already downloaded it, some ready to blast it all over the net, there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I don't care who brought it out, but believe me, I appreciate that it is.

What about this:
I think it would rule to play these game on my 2600 the way it was meant to be played, how in the hell can I do that, seeing as I don't feel like paying $50 for a repro. Either that, or who knows how in the hell to do it that will be able to do it for me. I got some extra dupes in my 2600 collection if you need a cart to work with. I can pay for the eprom because I know the run about $10 if you know where to look. If it needs something different, let me know. Somebody, lets do something. All I have are some dupe carts and am willing to give a hand on this. Let me play these 2 on my 2600 the way they were meant to be played.

p.s. - I have never flamed ever on this forum or any forum. This was my 1st time. Please don't be pissed. I was just having a little fun because everybody else was flaming.

How is this "anti-flame": I actually enjoy AA and DP alot. I am being honest. Somebody reply to this and not flame so we can get some carts going!

[Ed Oscuro]

masses of uninvolved unaffected people have come out of the woodwork to wave their twig and berries at each other

I don't have a twig or berries, I just got stuck with the fig leaves.
Hopefully just one? :D

Erm, anyhow. Whenever I go buy a prototype for $1K (I can imagine myself doing that, if only I don't inadvertently piss off everybody who owns what I would be looking for...heh), unreleased or not I don't think I'll be interested in getting money back for it.

Notes before I start my own, DP flag-waving defense: I'm obviously not doing anybody at AA a favor here, but I don't feel that my comments apply to everybody within AA, and indeed maybe it is unfair to associate AA at all with what hopefully will turn out to be a few misguided souls. Perhaps I'm too cynical, and this is all one great big goatscrew of an understanding. That said, I think after our own forum icons have been directly accused of acting with the goal of stealing prestige and money that we have a right to be a bit harsh in analyzing what motivates these "goodwill ambassadors" from AA. Until somebody gives evidence that the topic-closing faction releasin ROMs without the owner's/dumper's consent has acted in good faith, I'm gonna have to assume they were just being petty and miserable. The burden of proof is on the complaintant(s), not DP.

It's like two neighbors bought their own '57 T-birds to take to the show, but when one guy's ride has a broken axle he sets his mind on slashing the other guy's tires at the fairgrounds, instead of asking for help in getting his axle broken. To this guy a parade means one person in front, one in back - instead of thinking how impressive a display the two identical cars would be traveling together, it's all about winning or losing. I wish this was just as simple as that, too, since this says nothing of the financial situation.

Cripes - I'll just assume that both DP and Tempest use money from sales to fund community stuff, since that'd be fair to Tempest. We know that's the case with DP; I don't want to say that somebody else is expecting the community to pay for their collectables - but is this true? I have no choice but to be suspicious that could be one of the real issues here, because Thomas J. is being a pretty bad diplomat. Who tasked this guy with coming here and setting us straight, anyhow?

Make no mistake, I understand what you folks are upset about and I also know it's sincere, but being sincerely pissed that you didn't get to go first is silly. Instead of complaining at us, why was the issue not just dropped and the effort made to press ahead and dump individual ROMs? That should be a good effort seeing how the original board appears broken, and even if nothing turns out different in the data (or it's all corrupted), we would - all of us - have appreciated the effort.

Instead it's back to the usual "Dead of the Brain" mindgames and lassiez-faire - "when you're on my turf, or what I percieve to be my turf" - economics (since apparently there is a money aspect to this as well, forgive me for not understanding why folks are mad at DP and crew for owning rights to release the game for free) and arguments postulated from the intensely emotional, intelligent first-person take of a squirrel whose favorite cache of acorns has been dug up (though evidence suggests that there were indeed no acorns buried, no chicks to count, as it were) and is spending its time throwing bits of detrius with as much vigor as it can muster at passerby, with much chittering and jumping from branch to branch.

I keep reading about this "simple" (translated to "stay off our turf") solution where the entire community of DP, apparently, is expected to be contrite and to bow our heads down very low for even reading about the DP release of the (wholly owned) Meltdown prototype. Here's an even simpler solution: Buy stuff because you really want it, not because you want your name traveling about that room in Adventure.

A simple catchphrase works for me - I'm here for the games. It should surprise nobody that this is very similar to Joe's popular (and perhaps, when it's written, the most sincere thing written by anybody in this thread) phrase "Game ON." That's not "Game on MY terms."

I'm ashamed that folks, some of them possibly going on twice my age, who grew up with the Atari 2600 have created a spat about something so foolish. What's up with that? The money aspect of things isn't nice, but with DP you do have an honest broker that is both buying rights to release prototypes and using the money to fund community activities - like keeping these forums open so trolls from another forum can come dump everything on our door that AA won't allow to keep its forum free from controversy and to preserve its image. We're pro-freedom of speech, but anti-bullshit. I think that's a fair statement, too.

THAT is really important, too. Certain elements who frequent Atari Age have started coming regularly to spout off nonsense about DP, and patience is wearing thin - I caught a bit of flack myself from folks on edge when I wrote a poorly-concieved critique of the situation (or rather, Joe's bringing it to the forums...which turned out to really be a good move, even though it inevitably started another flame war), as stress on forum members accused of everything in the book on either side of being illegitimate offspring or giddy transvestite zombies turned the atmosphere sour right quick. In the grand scheme of things, it's DP left looking like the breeding grounds of discontent, when it's damned obvious that it's really a case of outsiders making demands on the hard working leaders of our community.

What's more, curse me for writing all of this. This ROM stuff is literally none of my business - I only own an Atari VCS because I bought it on a whim - but barge loads of garbage we've been left to sift through have started coming regularly, and the only thing it's got over a spam attack is sincerity. Being sincerely misled doesn't make anybody right.

Plan for success:

1.) Set in motion a plan to fix or digitally salvage your prototype
2.) Thank the folks who've given you the ability to play the game
3.) Stop thinking that there's rolls of quarters rolling down the escalator, and somebody else is out there to make sure you don't get your rightful cut
4.) Game ON, and remember that we're here for the games, not politics or ego-massaging contests.

For myself - damn me to hell and back AGAIN for chipping in about this for the third time (not counting a snarky comment in another thread), but I'm damned tired of seeing this garbage on DP, AGAIN. We're a damn good community, perhaps not the most highbrow out there, but that's something that's been decided by the group, and if we've done anything naive it was with good intentions, not to harm anybody.

And for SegaAges - Damn, I'm disappointed in you. Flames almost never get the other, entrenched party to retreat from their position - unless you press forward and burn them out (my apologies for inducing any WWII/'Nam flashbacks in advance). I'm not aware of many "facts" (or rather great yarns woven by the malcontent) and stories among the "in" crowd, but I am aware that DP might have just been led into a trap where to acquiese to the other side's demands (release the proto or we'll whine at you and blackball you from our important, CGE-like events, I'm sure) they have to do something that makes them look bad - a real Kobayashi Maru, that's what. No, I'm not really cynical enough to believe anybody complaining about the situation was devious or dishonest enough to do that - and likewise I reject offhand any suggestion that DP released this proto to hurt the AA folks in any way, shape, or form - and what's more, it's childish to view this in such a manner. DP/CGE folks have done nothing wrong - certainly hasn't committed any sins wittingly - and you're calling DP/CGE "wrong" for defending their reps.

Plus, thanks for making me restate my whole thesis, but it's hard not to feel you need to say it JUST ONE MORE TIME with some of the pure idiocy being vigorously and ruthlessly applied and reapplied in a never-ending cycle of truth, justice, and the American way turned upside down and wound counter-clockwise to the direction of their original intent.

[ianoid]

Let me enumerate the absurdities I see from my particular vantage:

6) I like pie.

This is my favorite post, and is most closely aligned with how I feel, aside from the pie part, unless of course, it's a la mode.

Now let me also, for the record straighten out a few incredibly controversial points here:

1)I have met Marco 5 years ago, and I'm just an idiot for not remembering.
2)Marco is a bad example for someone who doesn't release protos, because this simply is not the case. However, it is still any persons own choice as to whether to release anything he or she possesses, IMHO.

3)The posts in this thread are too long to read for the most part, unless a numerical system is applied, which makes gigantu posts easier to read because there is some separation of ideas.

4)-ian

[Ed Oscuro]

Sorry.

In order to make amends, I will be giving out free Pro-PIE.

Offer good until I go to bed...yes.

[Marco]

I got lots of cool 2600 protos for sale - anyone interested in taking this burden off of me ;)

Cheers,
Marco

[AB Positive]

And yes, Sniderman, I made DP the liberal side because I'm a liberal and mostly post here. Sorry man. :P

-AG

LOL As I read the post, I was *already* starting to think of some smart-assed comment. Then you had to go ahead and call me on it at the end. Damn, have I become THAT predictable? Sucked the wind right outta my sails on that one.

Not so much you being the predictable one as much as you're the first conservative I could think of that would read the thread. And I was right :D

-AG

[ApolloBoy]

About this AA/DP stuff...

JUST STOP THIS NONSENSE ALREADY!!!

We're getting worked up over video games, sheesh! @_@

[leonk]

I have an interesting question..

If Matt would get his dumps fixed, or through binary analysis it would be shown that the dumps DP released and the one Matt has are identical, wouldn't it still make Matt's investment worthwhile??

What's stopping Matt from taking DP's dumps and writing them to his proto cart?

Doing so will not make that cart a "reproduction". Proto collectors should still consider that cart a REAL proto (that was revived). The reason being that the cart was physically used in the game's production. (unlike carts that I create).

Sure, it might not be worth 1000$ anymore.. probably more around 300-400$.. but still.. it's a real proto, and if that's all Matt wanted.. he can do it now thanks to DP!!

[ManciGames]

Is it sad that me, being a fifteen yearold finds this whole thing childish? For christ sakes, we are talking about VIDEOGAMES. This debate is more heated then any political discussion I have ever witnessed. I suppose being a neutral person here is the best thing. Also, joining both communities around a year ago (less here, more at AA) shelters me a bit from the 'history' of all these little personal feuds. I really hope that you guys just someday realize this is stupid and agree to get along. How does Matt feel about this, anyhow?

Well said...

This whole thread is a good example of Reason # 1,728 that I am a much happier person post-Manci Games experience.

[DasCrewShtool]

I love the look on my daughters face when she plays a game she has never played before, do you remember that feeling, since when did game playing get so damn political? it would be nice if the video game forum was about the love of games? it is nice to read about some one playing a game that was fucking awesome, I have gotten some great advice about games here also, but there are people here that do truely love games and so for those who do ROCK ON!!!

[stonic]

I have an interesting question..

If Matt would get his dumps fixed, or through binary analysis it would be shown that the dumps DP released and the one Matt has are identical, wouldn't it still make Matt's investment worthwhile??

I'd say no, unless his eprom was on a real prototype board. And even then it wouldn't be worth $1k.



What's stopping Matt from taking DP's dumps and writing them to his proto cart?

At this point I'd guess he's hoping he has a different version. Delman said the game was complete when it was sold to 20th Century, so it's possible they made changes (but I doubt it).

[Iron Draggon]

Just curious, what and where is AA? I could care less about the flame war.

[leonk]

AA = Atari Age

Add www and .com to visit. :D

[Iron Draggon]

Cool, thanks!