Kids today..and their strategy guides...

[Wavelflack]

Does anyone else find the proliferation and success of "strategy guides" a little sad? Maybe I'm old fashioned (I am), but what is the point of buying a game AND purchasing a book with it where someone has already figured out the puzzles and secrets for you? Why not just buy a DVD of videogame ending sequences and save yourself the pitifully small remaining effort?

I have to wonder what the kids of today actually get out of games. Satisfaction? Over what? That they could successfully read and follow step by step instructions on how to beat their games? "Yay! I followed directions!"

Perhaps they are into games for strictly audiovisual/aesthetic reasons. I've known at least a few people who were/are that way. They play games so they can see cool cutscenes and cool endings. The game surrounding the cutscenes is merely a nuisance to bypass by any means necessary. One guy I knew bought Mortal 2 for SNES, and the first thing he did (literally) was to turn on every cheat code out of EGM, so he could see all of the endings. He just spent $50 to see eight sets of 3 frame animations, plus text. Woohoo!


Anyway, I know "strategy guides" have been around, in one form or another, for practically the entire existence of commercial videogames. I remember seeing books like "How to win at videogames!" and so forth, back in the early days. but they were not the same sort of material (it was more general game theory and even psychology, rather than "walkthroughs"), and they were not relied on by the majority of the game playing world.

These days, when a new game comes out, Target (Best Buy, etc.) pushes the companion strategy guide alongside it. Sometimes it's even put together as a package deal! "Buy the game and it's loser-empowering cheatbook together and $ave!!" For that matter, I can't believe that some of these games even have strategy guides (shooters, FPS, racing?), but I guess some kids need help in every arena.

Finally, don't these people feel even mildly insulted over buying the guides? They're not cheap! Don't they feel that they are tacitly admitting some sort of mental inferiority when they have to buy a "how to" book along with their new game, plus the final insult of getting bent over and reamed by the price?

Good grief.

[Ed Oscuro]

I bought (and used) the guide for a good deal of Metroid Prime's secrets.

Would like to get some more strategy guides for my old games, too - Phantasy Star II, yay!

Plus kids these days don't get the guides for the pictures, like they did in the old days.

Fatal Fury 3's guide (Japanese) is officially the coolest thing ever.

[Half Japanese]

I admit it. I buy strategy guides....





<wait for it>








....when they're a penny apiece at Best Buy.



But I get what you're saying, and it is pretty sad. Some games (especially RPGs) deserve to have strategy guides due to their complexity. Plus, some of them have some excellent art in them (FFTA). The only guide I think I've ever bought out of necessity was for the ps1 game Ghost in the Shell back in 1997 because there was one level that was damn near impossible without a map (very strict time limit to destroy about 40 bombs).

Buying a guide without even playing the game first is simply admitting defeat.

[MegaDrive20XX]

*shakes my cane* when I was a lad, we had GAME MAGAZINE!! and they'd only tell ya secrets, not WALKTHROUGHS for $14.99!! Those were the days!

Guide Books finally caught on, and I can't stand it when I walk into a GameStop or an EB World and they push off the guide...like that 20% is gonna save my wallet

Play games to enjoy, not to say "Hey I finished this game in 2 days!" without mentioning "Oh I got a Brady guide book too.."

When I was growing up, "Guide Book" was unheard of! "Cheats and Codes" what's that? All I read was "Nintendo Player" magazine in 87' and was lucky enough to read Nintendo Power (couldnt afford it when I was kid hehe)...and that was the extent of it...that's why it took me 5 years to finish the original Zelda...no one had Internet...sure some guide books out there..but I never bought one..

.all I learned was the simple fact of "Trial and Error"...Learn from your mistakes you made in that level...and try again buddy..

You think I mastered Super Ghouls N' Ghosts with a beer coaster guide book? HELL NO!

[blissfulnoise]

Games were never as complex as they are now. I play through lots of RPGs with guides. Sure you lose a bit of the sense of discovery, but I don't have the time to play through a game 3 times to see everything I missed.

Plus, lots of the hidden features and sub-quests would be virtually impossible to uncover without some sort of road map. I'd like to see anyone get 100% in FFX-2 without assistance.

Additionally, most guide books worth their salt incorporate lots of artwork and interesting anecdotes about the developers, it's publishers, or other factors that lead to the games creation (read: Doublejump Books). These features are squarely geared at the fanboys and girls, but I love em.

Most games aren't about just hopping on turtles and getting both the challace AND the key. You can play em' how you want to, but I like to see everything a game has to offer on the first pass, and if that means I slop down another 14.99 to do it with a full colored and illustrated guide, then so be it. I typically won't pay full price for a guide, however, normally finding a way to get it a bit cheaper than that (20% or otherwise).

Now we can argue if publishers intestinally make games that are so complex that they require a guide to unlock everything, but that's another story all together.

[bluberry]

I find them useful for fighting games. Any guide can help by having a move list and such, and the rare good guides like Versus Books' SFA2 guide can actually help you improve your game.

[Jorpho]

Games were never as complex as they are now. I play through lots of RPGs with guides. Sure you lose a bit of the sense of discovery, but I don't have the time to play through a game 3 times to see everything I missed.

Plus, lots of the hidden features and sub-quests would be virtually impossible to uncover without some sort of road map. I'd like to see anyone get 100% in FFX-2 without assistance.

Indeed, there are many more games like that than there used to be. And they all take so long to play through, as well.

[FantasiaWHT]

Games were never as complex as they are now. .

Except RPGs. RPG's used to be a LOT more complex, and now they are basically minimally interactive movies... they wouldn't DARE put in something like an actually challenging boss (that's not optional) that, GOD FORBID, might actually kill you and you might OH THE INSANITY have to try again. There are no real mazes in RPGs anymore either.

Anyway, selling strategy guides (markup is huge) has given me some interesting insight. There are a few reasons why people buy guides, some more "honorable" than others.

1- They want it to be easy as possible
2- They play through once, then buy the guide the 2nd time to find everything
3- They want to have it nearby if they get stuck at any point
4- There is about 5X as much hidden stuff as normal stuff (Disgaea? hehe)
5- They simply don't have time to bumble through everything, like trying 20 different things to kill a boss, or finding the right NPC to talk to, etc. so they buy the guide to save time.

I generally fall into the 2nd category, or the 4th. But I rarely buy a guide because I know how simple it is to go to gamefaqs.

[sisko]

It depends on the game. I rarely buy guides unless I can get them super cheap ($1-$2 a piece) and I already have the game. I find that the guide and the game make a very nice set in a collection.

The games where I DO buy strat guides for are a select few. For example, Armored Core because of the extensive part listings. Also on RPGs because I know the guide will inevitably MUCH harder to get in the long run (ie Lunar, Disgaea, etc etc).

[christianscott27]

i'm glad somebody mention gamefaqs! yeah really, just point your browser that way and save some money. i've never bought or used a guide with any games, although i dont play RPGs. sometimes i'll be playing an adventure game or FPS and get really frusterated and goto gamefaqs, even then i'm carefull to avert my eyes when it goes past the scene i'm stuck on (really). usually the guides only help so much since its still a matter of making those jumps or shooting those guys.

what really impresses me is how well guides seem to hold their value for ebaying, a friend of mind says he makes an awesome turn around on used guides.

[youruglyclone]

I don't know most of the time I use guides to check if I had "maximized" my performance(i.e. did I grab all the items). but still the art in some guides are a nice touch.

anyways guides from doublejump are definitely worth the money...

here are some pet peeves...for no apparent reasons

1] guides that are black and white...I freaking paid 14.95 for this...the least you can do is color
2] incorrect info (well sometimes this can't be helped since guide writers might be using a beta version)...but still you're paying 14.95 for help...you should be getting the right now.

hopefully more guide companies can be like doublejump...I mean having an appended version of their disgaea guide really made me say wow...they give a rat's ass.

[buttasuperb]

guides for fighters are ok sometimes.

[scooterb23]

I've only bought 2 guides ever.

1. Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 - After a few months, I was getting stuck, so I bought the guide to get some new ideas in park building theory.

2. Jack Nicklaus Golf 6 - Only because it included a CD full of course development tools, and had in depth instructions on how to build a course...I liked that one just to read :)

I would have liked a guide for Road Trip, because there was a lot of stuff that was just impossible to find...the sense of completion was much greater when I finally figured it out on my own.

[PDorr3]

I only have a few strategy guides, and I'm proud to say I never used any of them while playing the games I owned them for. Brand new zelda 64, mario 64, yoshis story, jak and daxter, never used. the only guide I used just a little bit was for FFXI.

[kai123]

Hey Wavelflack why are you so worried about what someone does with their time and money? You don't like strat guides? Great for you!! Some of us do like strategy guides with our games. I am very tired of hearing "back in the good ole days" stories because none of them accurately represent what really was. Strategy guides have been around forever get over it and worry about something really important.

[Nesmaster]

i have never bought a guide, the only ones i have were from NP subscriptions and when stores offeredthe guide for free with the game. out of that list that FantasiaWHT posted, i would be #3

[PyroPenguin]

For the most part games these days are way too easy. There is a power up or something like that for any and everything. Old gen games are lots more challenging. I remember back when the new Ninja Gaiden came out I borrowed it from a friend and casually played it and beat it in a week with no problems, then everyone was talking about how it is the hardest game ever. All you need are 2 moves for that entire game, which was disappointing. The final boss did no damage to me, terrible stuff. Then they need a guide for it, wtf?

I will admit I use guides for dumb things like Animal Crossing or something like that. But gamefaqs provides those.

[blissfulnoise]

"Back in the day" we had "How to Win at Nintendo vol.2" by Senior Jeff Rovin.

[vintagegamecrazy]

Strat guides are way overused. I'll admit I will use them occasionally when I'm really stuck, or when the game I got is just plain boring and I want to finish it in a hurry. But There are a lot of games that are just too easy aka all new RPGs, but I still run into plenty of people who won't buy a game unless they can get the guide with it, which is just plain stupid. Most of the games are much easier that back then and then top it with strat guide fanboys and all of the mainstream gamers have all turned into wuss boys. Alot of new games I don't even engoy anymore because they are too easy and then you have cheat codes too, and those plus guides have just become crutches instead of aides.There are a lot of people who won't play a game without cheat codes. I had a friend and his brother was like ten years old and would buy several $50 plus dollar pc 1st person shooters (only the M rated ones too) and wouldn't even try to play them on normal, he would automatically turn god mode on and set it on free for all party modes and just gloat over running around and blowing all the other players away. I would say this is a sad state nowadays, look at how many japanese games don't make it here because they are too hard for americans. With total reliance on codes and guides we are digging our selves into a pit. All these gamers need to get a clue and we might get some of those games state side. As for me I like some new games I don't buy 15 dollar guides when I can go to Gamefaqs for free. I will occasionally use assistance if I get really stumped, but I still stick with the older stuff because I get a much greater sense of accomplishment and can hone my skills down much more than the newer stuff.

[MegaDrive20XX]

"Back in the day" we had "How to Win at Nintendo vol.2" by Senior Jeff Rovin.

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER! Vol. 1-2-3 and 4!

[whoisKeel]

last time i bought a guide was for the first Street Fighter Alpha for psx. i don't mind guides for fighters, as mentioned, because they really just help you get a grasp on the mechanics. you still have to practice and get your timing down, and edit combos to your ability.

i don't 'hate' guides, i just don't like when people consider 'getting stuck' as 5 minutes. getting stuck for me is 2 days. ie, if i'm stuck for 2 days at a spot, i'll resort to gamefaqs. i can't remember the last time i got stuck for 2 days on a game tho.

remember, not everybody is good at video games. my roomates girlfriend uses them religiously (guides), and FOR HER, i think she actually has more fun that way, because, frankly, she sucks at video games, and their 'puzzles'

now, some older games, i'll admit i look pretty early. if i'm gonna sit down and play a nes megaman i've never played before, i'm gonna cheat, and see the order of the bosses i should take. i just tend to cheat a bit more on older games...but never on new ones.

[RanChan]

I get strategy guides if they go along with a game I really enjoy. To tell the truth though I don't seem to use them often. I just like having them around. It doesn't feel right without having one, especially for role playing games.

Although I do with the new Phantom Brave guide was in the usual format. I like the graphic novel style, but it looks odd on my bookshelf.

[SoulBlazer]

I doubt anyone will read this or care, but I'll weigh in on why I buy guides:

1) I only buy them for adventure/RPG/complex shooter games.
2) I play through the game once with using the guide as little as possible, and then use the guide to find what I missed.
3) Keep it on hand in case I need help.
4) Sure, I do use gameFAQ's, but it's easier to have a actuall BOOK, with MAPS in front of you, and PICTURES, to help sort through some stuff.
5) I collect the guide books. :)
6) Some of those guides become VERY rare and worth a LOT of money in several years. Examples for me include Suikoden II, Star Ocean II, Harvest Moon for PSX, and Dragon Warrior 4.

[Griking]

Plus, lots of the hidden features and sub-quests would be virtually impossible to uncover without some sort of road map. I'd like to see anyone get 100% in FFX-2 without assistance.

I don't believe for a second that this isn't the publisher's strategy just to guarantee more revenue. What really pisses me off is that a lot of the stuff that's in strategy guides nowadays is stuff that should be included in a half decent instruction manual.

I hear you though about how people can go to the guide too early and ruin the challenge of the game. I find it sad that strategy guides are usually released before the actual game is.

Don't get me wrong, some of the guides are nicely done and have some legitimate extras that are worth paying for. I usually just wait till I find them used at my local Gamestop for $1.99 each.

[lendelin]

Perhaps they are into games for strictly audiovisual/aesthetic reasons. I've known at least a few people who were/are that way. They play games so they can see cool cutscenes and cool endings. The game surrounding the cutscenes is merely a nuisance to bypass by any means necessary.

Don't you think you jump to conclusions here? You buy strategy guides because you are a shallow gamer interested only in pretty graphics is at least as shollow as a reasoning as the assumed shallowness of strategy guide-buying gamers.

A lot of good reasons to buy guides have been already mentioned, and a lot apply to me as well.

One reason wasn't mentioned, and it is my main reason why I have around 200 guides from 1989 on: ARCHIVING!

I'm one of these nutcases who want to archive their games. That means cheat codes, stategies, and maps. Before the guide business truly took off in the mid 90s, I made maps of NES and SNES games myself. I wanted to know and archive every nook and cranny of the games I had. It is completely irrational, but lots of guides with good maps and strategies are a great archive to have for the games you like and played.

This was fun to do:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lendelin2001/detail?.dir=/389c&.dnm=d01b.jpg

...but I'm glad I don't have to map out a FFX or the new Star Ocean because these games are truly big. :) I'm even glad that I have the guide for GT3.

...and the price increase for some guides over time is remarkable. Some guides are rarer and more expensive than the games itself. Try to get the guide for Blood Omen Legacy of Kain for $20. :)

A good guide for a great game is as much important to me as the instruction manual and the cardboard box.

[SoulBlazer]

You HAVE to have the guide in the store at the same time as the game. Most of the game's sales, as well as the guide, happens in the first week or two of the game's release. Miss that window and you lose most of your revenue.

Just ask Zack about his experiences at WD and their delayed guides. :D

But you also don't want to release the guide TOO soon. It's gotta to be updated, and out at the same time as the game and not before. One infamous case of this is the guide for Master of Orion III. The guide was shipped on the game's orginal release date, only to have the game delayed two more months. By the time the game came out most of the guide was obolete and useless.

And I'll second what lendelin said. ;)

[FantasiaWHT]

Perhaps they are into games for strictly audiovisual/aesthetic reasons. I've known at least a few people who were/are that way. They play games so they can see cool cutscenes and cool endings. The game surrounding the cutscenes is merely a nuisance to bypass by any means necessary.

Don't you think you jump to conclusions here? You buy strategy guides because you are a shallow gamer interested only in pretty graphics is at least as shollow as a reasoning as the assumed shallowness of strategy guide-buying gamers.

I know the type, trust me... he never said all guide-buyers were like that, but suggested it as a reason for some. Do you doubt some people buy them for that reason?

In another direction, it's interesting to point out that Phantasy Star II CAME with a guide in the US because it was considered too difficult for American gamers. In actuality, it probably was... that game probably has the nastiest dungeons ever. And some of the stuff you had to do to advance the plot (like finding those hidden towers and getting into them at the right time) were virtually random hehe.

MY question is why the hell did we get about 80 MADDEN 2005 GUIDES shipped to our store??? Talk about bad purchasing... I think we sold about 5, and they were actually FREE after rebate...

[farfel]

gamefaqs.com is more useful than any strategy guide.

Use it to solve those damn annoying puzzles

[Ed Oscuro]

In another direction, it's interesting to point out that Phantasy Star II CAME with a guide in the US because it was considered too difficult for American gamers. In actuality, it probably was... that game probably has the nastiest dungeons ever. And some of the stuff you had to do to advance the plot (like finding those hidden towers and getting into them at the right time) were virtually random hehe.
Gods yes. I've been using a walkthrough for that game, as well.

When you've got 250-300+ games to play through, there isn't much time to map things out with paper and pencil. Today, there really isn't that much of a feeling of accomplishment in figuring out Phantasy Star II's mazes at the cost of much repetitive button mashing. There's very little payoff in a sense of feeling you were clever - mostly, it's a great bore. For a while I knew a few of the dungeons like the back of my hand, but when you get to the tenth such dungeon you really don't care anymore.

That's a flaw with many Japanese games in general (Silent Hill series? A bucket of lightbulbs, I hear?).

Now playing The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Zork, or Peasant's Quest (yay! Beat it in one evening, minus extra baby use points, ~235 overall!) with a guide would be taking away the enjoyment. Some games make trying out dead ends fun, and I like that. Others don't even try, though, and I don't have the time for that.

If it's not fun, I don't think anybody should be forced to suffer through it, and that's that.

[blissfulnoise]

Now playing The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Zork, or Peasant's Quest (yay! Beat it in one evening, minus extra baby use points, ~235 overall!) with a guide would be taking away the enjoyment

I agree with this for sure. The only hint guide I ever used in an old school adventure game was the one INSIDE of of Space Quest IV. LOL

But I will still defend a Strategy Guide over www.gamefaqs.com any day of the week when you want a supliment for a game, and not just a walkthrough. I use gamefaqs more often than strategy guides, but when I'm playing Tales of Symphonia, I want a full color, illustrated, guidebook next to me.

And yeah, the walkthrough that came with Phantasy Star II should be the way that they do it now, but Prima pays big dollars to be able to put out guides so we know that's not going to happen. But Phantasy Star II was hardly the only game to come with a walkthrough. Sword of Vermillion did as well. And lots of adventure games came bundled with guides. (anyone remember the Sierra guides where the solutions required you to use a piece of red cellophane to read them?)

Glad to hear you enjoyed Peasent's Quest Ed. I admit, I did turn to a message board at one point for a single solution... I couldn't figure out how to get into that Cottage with no knob on the door. I did, however, get the extra baby items (Sub Sandwich, Pills, and Soda) without help.

[Lady Jaye]

I own a number of strategy guides: Animal Crossing, THPS 3 and 4, StarCraft (part of the battlechest edition), Diablo II (part of the battlechest edition), FF X-2 (deluxe edition), Zelda: Wind Waker, and a few more...

Why do I have them? To help me out if I'm stuck, to learn better ways of playing (notably where StarCraft and Diablo are concerned) and find out some hidden stuff/side quests that I might have missed.

I particularly like it when it's nicely illustrated, so it's much more a visual guide than just a walkthrough.

Oh, and I do have some older "how to win" books, including the French version of a guide for Super Mario World co-written by none other than Zach Meston! :D

[PDorr3]

Hey Wavelflack why are you so worried about what someone does with their time and money? You don't like strat guides? Great for you!! Some of us do like strategy guides with our games. I am very tired of hearing "back in the good ole days" stories because none of them accurately represent what really was. Strategy guides have been around forever get over it and worry about something really important.

Wavelflack is simply stating his opinion, this is not GameFAQs where someone posts a topic and all the 12 year old kids come rushing in and flamming eachother. Get over it. </rant>

[Oobgarm]

I love to collect strat guides and I see them as a 'companion' to the game. I don't buy many of them at full price, but if I enjoy the game enough, I will.

The only ones I really look at are for fighting games. The rest of them just sit on the shelf.

[SegaAges]

i own some guides, but i will NOT go out to buy it unless i am completely stuck (and this would be after going to gamefaqs). one instance is hitman 2. i bought it, started playing it, couldn't beat the 1st level (first hitman level, not the training level). i couldn't figure it out for the life of me. i bought a guide, and it told me what to do, and since i had "guidelines", i did the mission about the way they told me, but i killed more people just for fun.

there are sometimes where i will buy a guide because some of you guys are selling them for 1-2 bucks a piece. of course, i only buy guides for games i own.

back in the day, there still were strat guides. i remember this one guy when i was in elementary school had a guide for super mario bros. 3 (how i remember that and nothing about high school escapes even me). i thought it was cool that he could solve those little card puzzles everytime.

i do like some games where it can't really tell you exactly what to do, but give you guidelines. 2 games spring up to mind for sure with that idea and they are manhunt and hitman 2. i own guides for both games. they may tell you what you should do, but since it is not the easiest thing to do in the game, you still have to do it.

[zmweasel]

Oh, and I do have some older "how to win" books, including the French version of a guide for Super Mario World co-written by none other than Zach Meston! :D

Allow me to apologize for the lameness of that guide, written when I was an ignorant punk. I got much better at the guide thing o'er the years, as I bounced from Prima to Sandwich Islands to Dimension to Working Designs. (And now I don't do guides at all, because they're WAAAY too much work for not enough money.)

-- Z.

[Fuyukaze]

Back in the ol days I had an atari and the idea of a "guide" never crossed my mind because there was nothing that needed a guide. Then there was the NES and after the give away offer for DW I found a need for game mags and guides. I cant belive buying a guide just to tell you how to beat a game is good before playing it. Why did you buy it if you never even tried the game without it? That said though, if it isnt my money, I realy could care less. I myself do buy guides and ocasionaly use them when stuck. I love all the extra artwork and the rarely included bonus items. The extras like posters, mem stickers, and such are great. I dont understand guides for shooters, fighters, and FPS's though. Then again, I dont play much beyond shooters and all shooters basicly follow the same thing. Shoot them, dont let them shoot you. Probly could apply to FPS as well.

[Steven]

Strategy guides can be cool, especially for fighters. Even FPS after you beat them, it's just fun to see color pictures and read the little bio on each enemy. I remember standing at a Fry's Electronic back in 1994 admiring a well done CORRIDOR 7 guide book.

I own these guides:

-SF II (from Blockbuster Video in like 1992 -- yeah who remembers this!)

-Night Warriors (GameFan, Saturn)

-KoF 97

-Real Bout Special

All in all, guides can be cool sources for favorite games of yours, including pictures, arts and just little blurbs here and there that are fun to browse.

[Ed Oscuro]

I remember standing at a Fry's Electronic back in 1994 admiring a well done CORRIDOR 7 guide book.
Something for that game was done well?!

How the hell did that game get a "best art in a Shareware game" award, anyhow? I did like the little cartoon Jesus hidden in the game data, plus the HUD/weapon combo was almost cool looking (nevermind the title pic...probably the best part of the game, which is actually quite sad).

[Duncan]

Oh, and I do have some older "how to win" books, including the French version of a guide for Super Mario World co-written by none other than Zach Meston! :D

Allow me to apologize for the lameness of that guide, written when I was an ignorant punk. I got much better at the guide thing o'er the years, as I bounced from Prima to Sandwich Islands to Dimension to Working Designs. (And now I don't do guides at all, because they're WAAAY too much work for not enough money.)

-- Z.

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw you credited on the SW:KOTOR guide for Xbox. (Which, by the way, I own. :) )

[blissfulnoise]

The best "strategy guide" I've ever seen was Rome on 640k a Day which was for Civilization on the PC.

Benchmark reading for strategy game fans.

[zmweasel]

Oh, and I do have some older "how to win" books, including the French version of a guide for Super Mario World co-written by none other than Zach Meston! :D

Allow me to apologize for the lameness of that guide, written when I was an ignorant punk. I got much better at the guide thing o'er the years, as I bounced from Prima to Sandwich Islands to Dimension to Working Designs. (And now I don't do guides at all, because they're WAAAY too much work for not enough money.)

-- Z.

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw you credited on the SW:KOTOR guide for Xbox. (Which, by the way, I own. :) )

KotOR was my final guide for Prima and (probably) forever. David Hodgson was the lead author, while I rode shotgun. He came up with the hideous presentation, so don't blame me for that. :) I just wrote text and took screens.

The game was pushed back and revamped so many times that I worked on the guide on and off for at least six months, constantly rewriting text to reflect the latest gameplay changes. By the time the nightmare ended, David and Prima despised me, I despised them, and all of us despised BioWare.

Prima "Games" (man, how that name bugs me) was so vindictive that it pulled my name from the PC version of the guide and didn't pay me a cent, despite reusing all my work.

The good news from my bitter POV is that Brady is kicking Prima's ass these days, with more guide-worthy publishers (Square Enix, Rockstar) and its Signature Series of books (which mostly emulates what we did at Working Designs five years ago, but hey).

-- Z.

[dethink]

I agree with this for sure. The only hint guide I ever used in an old school adventure game was the one INSIDE of of Space Quest IV. LOL

god some of the answers in that were funny... LOL the CD-ROM version of that game is probably one of my favorites of all time.

"256 colors all for one little bitmapped wimp? what a waste of VGA! hey fellas, i bet i can toss him all the way out from the bottom of the stairs...bet'cha an ale!"

[Ed Oscuro]

I must say, ol' Weasel friend, that you sure know how to pick all the right scraps! LOL

Yeah, fuck Prima and their garbage bin guides, of course. Just being loyal (to be honest, though, I don't think much of their guides, and those terrible spines don't help much either).

[nintendan]

I buy Guides all the time, even for games i don't own (mostly from Bargain Bins, garage sales, etc.).

Do I use them? Nope. They are sweet collectible items (well, some guides are, some guides arne't). Kinda like sports cards.

I don't think any one of us would turn down a chance to own a Chrono Trigger guide if found dirt cheap EVEN IF we didn't plan on reselling it. They are just cool to own.

Dan

[Mayhem]

Only ever bought 1 strategy guide: for Zelda:OoT as I was missing 2 or 3 skulltulas and wanted to find out where they were. And also as a helpful reminder what to do when I came to play the game in the future LOL

Pretty much pre-Gamefaqs being big for me... now I usually go there if I get occasionally stuck on things...

[zmweasel]

I must say, ol' Weasel friend, that you sure know how to pick all the right scraps! LOL

Yeah, fuck Prima and their garbage bin guides, of course. Just being loyal (to be honest, though, I don't think much of their guides, and those terrible spines don't help much either).

What's really sad about the Prima "Games" sitch is that I co-authored their very first strategy guides back in the early '90s, but no one working there during the KotOR debacle had any idea of my role in the company's early success. D'oh!

-- Z.

[kainemaxwell]

Anyone remember wanting to order the start guide for DWIV from the offe rin the back of the manual?

[Ed Oscuro]

Sorry to hear that, man. Gaming industry = black hole for good ideas (stuff comes in, but credit doesn't come out!) At least some of the GameSpy staff managed to build up a bit of notoriety. Industry needs more of that. Still, things have come a long ways since the Adventure days.


I usually go there if I get occasionally stuck on things...
The official Zelda:OoT guide is sweet. One of my favorite pieces of gaming print around.

As for getting stuck on things...collision issue! :P

[Crush Crawfish]

I used to use guides all the time, but now I only use them If i'm completely stumped. I like to collect them too. Especially since gamestop sells the used ones uber-cheap. :Huggles $1.99 Suikoden II guide:


Anyway, I remember a while back when Mario RPG frist came out. I got all the way to the sunken ship without using a guide, but I just couldn't figure out that damn password!! I tried random guesses, asked kids at school (One kid told it was Bowser, another said seashore, etc.) and I eventually broke down and bought the guide. Turns out it was "Pearls".

[AFGiant]

When I was a youngin, playing my NES, SNES, and Genesis, I never knew strategy guides existed. Hell, I played Zelda: A Link to the Past before I knew how to READ! I'd call my dad in or my neighbor (if he was over at the time) and have them read the text to me whenever I beat a dungeon. I played that game for years. and years. and years. I poked, prodded, bombed, and smashed just about everything in the game. I spent ENDLESS hours looking for that 4th bottle (which I finally found, years later, with the help of IGN LOL ) I magic-mirrored every corner and anything that looked suspicious. Why? Because I was still finding new secrets. It was exciting, and it was terrific fun. Strategy guides? Nah. Who needed em?

Then came Zelda 64 (ocarina of time). I played it all the way through, like a true Zelda fan, but THEN went out and bought the strategy guide. It offered checklists, extra stories (in the guide itself), and let me check around for stuff I missed.

To this day, I still only buy guides once I finish the game, if at all (there are some exceptions). It really takes some fun out of it if the book knows the next place to go and there's no puzzle solving or innovative thinking involved.

[Wavelflack]

I'm quite surprised. I really didn't expect to see so many guide users.

Anyway, I'll address a few points I read along the way.

(paraphrased)

1. "Games are too long these days. If it weren't for the book, I'd never have the time to finish them."

2. "There's so much stuff to collect, and without the book, it'd take forever to find all of it."

I guess I find this sort of thing to be hypocritical of the gaming community at large. Starting roughly a decade ago, reviewers and game players began clocking their gameplay time per game, from start to finish. The result? Pissing and moaning that Game X "only" had 20-30 hours of gameplay. Or less. Game designers listened and began inflating the length of their games, sometimes (in the case of Zelda: OoT*) artificially. The put it the mini quests and so forth.
Then the gamers and reviewers starting pissing and moaning that Game Y didn't have enough unlockable characters, bonus stages, or (god help me) extra costumes. The designers took their cue, and began jam-packing all sorts of pointless extraneous bullshit into the games.

And so now that we have a prize behind every polygon rock in the polygon world, we piss and moan because it takes too much time (games are too short!) to locate the 22nd Golden Colostomy Bag so we can get a 100% rating and unlock Lei Fang's underwear drawer and buttplug collection.

So we buy books to help us get all of these things that we wanted ("secrets", remember? "hidden") with minimal effort put forth, so that the games (which aren't long enough) don't take so long.


I guess I'm just grumpy and archaic in my views, but I buy and play games for the challenge, not just for the ending or a percentage rating to show off. I figure that the designer made a calculated effort to impede my progress, and I like being the one who solves the riddles. The satisfaction of finding the solutions for yourself is far beyond that of playing by rote. In addition, it makes the exploration and discovery phase of any game much more enthralling.
I prefer not knowing what is coming next. I can't imagine how degraded my original experience with Metroid would have been had I had a guidebook in my hand. All of the isolation and mystique of the game would have been destroyed. Instead of entering a new area and wondering where the hell you were (I never make maps. Not out of pride, I'm just lazy), you would be thinking "okay, it looks like I go two screens to left and that's Kraid."
As it happened for me, I hunted here and there, and then Oh Shit! It's Kraid!

Anyhow...

[typo maintenance]

[KJN]

"Back in the days" we had magazines like Zzap!64 which had maps (like this one (http://web.externet.hu/sk/c64/extras/maps/eidolon.zip) or this one (http://web.externet.hu/sk/c64/extras/maps/staffk.zip)), walkthroughs and of course lots of pokes.

If I can find older guides (especially C64 related) I get them. Remember when guides for games like Bard's Tale and Mars Saga was written more like a story told by one of the party members and all guides came with a big piece of cardboard so you could cover the rest of the page you were reading?

I also pick up guides for games I really like, specially if I can get hold of a japanese guide. While I can't read them they often have more artwork compared to the western guide or better maps. Like the japanese Castlevania: Symphony of the Night guide which has screenshot maps of the castle or the Klonoa: Door to Phantomile guide where every level is introduced with a lovely full page artwork based on the theme of the level.


Additionally, most guide books worth their salt incorporate lots of artwork and interesting anecdotes about the developers, it's publishers, or other factors that lead to the games creation (read: Doublejump Books). These features are squarely geared at the fanboys and girls, but I love em.
Indeed, which is why I'm buying all guides released by DoubleJump books.

[SoulBlazer]

Zach's last guide was with DoubleJump, actually....I can't recall the name of the game, but it was right after the SW:KOTOR book. I brought it to his attention that his name was listed with the XBox version of the book but not the PC one. It really sucks, cause I have a lot of his guides and read them often just for sheer humor value. LOL (The Lunar's and Vanguard Bandit books are especily good for those, but Wild Arms is pretty good also).

I had that DW 4 guide -- it was one of the 'rare' ones I mentioned in my last post. Cause I sold that sucker last year for $70. :eek 2:

The guide I got with Fable is from Prima, and it's pretty good. I agree that Brady publishes SLIGHTLY better guides usually, but it's very hit or miss, depending on the authors and the game.

[Aussie2B]

I like guides because:

1. I enjoy writing my own guides. If everybody stopped using guides, who would read mine?
2. I keep the option of getting into that career field open. If guides ceased to exist, that means no job for me. :P
3. Commercial guides are helpful in my own guide writing (although for me personally this only really applies to Japanese guides).
4. I like the artwork, info about the development, posters, and other nifty stuff.

This reminds me of a story. o_O The first "real" guide I got was the Super Mario All-Stars guide. Later I bought the guides for DKC 1 and 2. However, I didn't really fall in love with a guide until I got my Chrono Trigger guide. It's still in good condition, but it's a little more worn out than my other guides. There's a reason for that... I took that guide with me EVERYWHERE. Man, it wasn't just some help for a game for me; it was a source of nearly as much entertainment as the game itself. I'd take it to junior high with me, whoop it out to show to other girls who were probably completely uninterested and never played a game in their life, and I'd point out characters and talk about them. :) I'd spend hours painstakingly copying the artwork (not by tracing), and I'd read through it over and over as if it was some sort of novel. It's not a perfect guide, it didn't cover every single little thing in the game, but I've yet to find another guide that lives up to its quality.

[zmweasel]

Zach's last guide was with DoubleJump, actually....I can't recall the name of the game, but it was right after the SW:KOTOR book. I brought it to his attention that his name was listed with the XBox version of the book but not the PC one. It really sucks, cause I have a lot of his guides and read them often just for sheer humor value. LOL (The Lunar's and Vanguard Bandit books are especily good for those, but Wild Arms is pretty good also).

I don't really count the Disgaea guide as something I worked on, as my contributions to it were minimal. Maybe that's why it sold so well. :)

Humor was not an option in the KotOR guide, and it's not really allowed in ANY official guides anymore, as there's too much risk of offending somebody. Yet another reason why I got out of guide-writing.

I found out from a friend at Agetec that my Wild Arms guide was used as a "bible" during the localization of Wild Arms: Alter code F, which cracks me up, as I don't remember a damn thing about that game anymore.

The Mystery Science Theater 3000 writers have talked about how their minds blocked the memories of the movies they did on the show as a defense mechanism, and my pea-brain has done the same thing with most of the games I wrote strategy guides about. I'll leaf through one of the NES or Genesis books I worked on back in the day and mutter "I played through that?" ten or fifteen times.

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

Humor in game guides seems to depend on the companies -- for example, the Morrowind Chronicles, a great, and MUST HAVE, guide book for Morrowind, is FULL of humor. :D

I can't wait for that remake of Wild Arms to come out -- I wonder if my old guide will still be usefull for it. :)

Some of the guides are silly, though. Who wants a collector's edition of Madden 2005 guide? x_x

[zmweasel]

2. I keep the option of getting into that career field open. If guides ceased to exist, that means no job for me. :P

Strategy guides are NOT a "career" by any means. There are, at most, fifteen to twenty authors between Brady and Prima who write guides full-time. All their other authors have real jobs, because guides don't pay for shit. (Flat fees, no royalties, crushing deadlines.) I could've made a better hourly wage working at In N Out Burger than I did on the KotOR guide.

I would strongly suggest you stick to writing guides for the love, unless you truly understand and accept the emotional and financial repercussions of trying to turn your hobby into a profession.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Humor in game guides seems to depend on the companies -- for example, the Morrowind Chronicles, a great, and MUST HAVE, guide book for Morrowind, is FULL of humor. :D

I forgot about Peter Olafson's Morrowind guide. I never did find out how he got away with as much as he did.

Which game companies' guides have you seen lately with gobs of humor (excepting humorous games)? Eidos was fairly lenient back in the Tomb Raider 1/2 days, but that's when it could afford to have a sense of humor.

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

Define 'gobs' :D

Many guides will at least have a little -- Fable, for example.

I think the Morrowind guide was done because it was published by Bethesda themselves and they have'nt done many guides.

[Jorpho]

So we buy books to help us get all of these things that we wanted ("secrets", remember? "hidden") with minimal effort put forth, so that the games (which aren't long enough) don't take so long.

Actually, I found it rather ironic when playing Tales of Phantasia recently that consulting GameFAQs has actually made the game considerably longer. (There are excessive quantities of optional items hidden in rather odd places that can only be found very, very late in the game - although there is of course no indication that you should go looking for them.)

[FantasiaWHT]

So, who thinks...

A) Gamefaqs SHOULD allow html or graphical guides?

B) They actually WILL ever allow them?

C) They would pay a monthly fee to see them?

[Wavelflack]

Maybe, instead, game companies could develop special "force-feedback" style controllers with little actuators and relays attached to every button. Then developers could make sure to include (as the default option, naturally) code to run the controller for you (player piano style) and operate the game for you, saving players the trouble of thinking or moving.

[zmweasel]

So, who thinks...

A) Gamefaqs SHOULD allow html or graphical guides?

B) They actually WILL ever allow them?

C) They would pay a monthly fee to see them?

Prima and DoubleJump have already experienced some success with selling .PDF guides, so I can see the new, 100%-corporate GameFAQs emulating them.

-- Z.

[Querjek]

I typically get guides for games to find extra stuff (like, right now, in Pokemon LeafGreen, I'm trying to catch them all...).

[Griking]

Oh, and I do have some older "how to win" books, including the French version of a guide for Super Mario World co-written by none other than Zach Meston! :D

Allow me to apologize for the lameness of that guide, written when I was an ignorant punk. I got much better at the guide thing o'er the years, as I bounced from Prima to Sandwich Islands to Dimension to Working Designs. (And now I don't do guides at all, because they're WAAAY too much work for not enough money.)

-- Z.

No shit, I didn't know that you wrote strategy guides. I suppose I should pay attention a little more.

As it turns out I have a few older books that you wrote or contributed to;

Nintendo Game Secrets 2
Super NES Game Secrets 2
Super NES Game Secrets 4
Super Mario World Game Secrets
Nintendo Gameboy Secrets
Awesome Sega Genesis Secrets 3

Just out of curiosity, where does the information that goes into guides come from? Do the developers provide the content and secrets for the guide and just have you write it up in an interesting way or do you have to do your game research yourself? What about the "unauthorized" guides?

[Lady Jaye]

Indeed about GameFAQs. Y'know, I could see this become part of the GameSpot Complete service: non-suscribers get access to the ASCII guides currently available and suscribers could access a visual version of the best guides, with real maps and visual design that could be downloaded and printed out... Y'know, the works.

[Raedon]

*AGREES WITH WAVEL*

I with ya. The fun of Bard's Tale, when I was 13, was delving five levels down. making maps on GRID paper. :)

[zmweasel]

Just out of curiosity, where does the information that goes into guides come from? Do the developers provide the content and secrets for the guide and just have you write it up in an interesting way or do you have to do your game research yourself? What about the "unauthorized" guides?

With older unofficial guides, we came up with all the information on our own by playing through the games a couple of times each and hoping we didn't miss anything, which we all-too-frequently did. (That's the biggest advantage of GameFAQS writers--access to a hivemind of fact-checkers and strategy-testers.)

With official guides for newer games, most of the info is supplied by the developers in the form of internal design documents and cheat sheets (extensively rewritten to be more accessible and useful). You also have access to one or two folks from the middle-to-bottom of the totem pole--associate producer, lead tester, etc. These people are usually very busy trying to get the game out the door at the same time you're trying to finish the guide, so they can't be counted upon for quick or lengthy answers.

Prima and Brady don't do ANY unofficial guides anymore that I'm aware of, as they're too legally dubious, and they won't have the exclusive info only a legit guide can provide. Also, game companies figured out it's better to sign a lucrative deal with one company or spread the love between multiple publishers. I vaguey recall that at least one of the N64 Zeldas had guides from Nintendo, Prima, Brady and the now-extinct Versus.

I really enjoyed writing the multi-game compilation guides of the 8- and 16-bit days. My second and final 3DO comp is one of the best of the 40-something (or is it 50-something? I need to do another count) guides I've worked on. My WD guides are by far the best, though, as I had complete creative freedom and unlimited access to game data.

-- Z.

[boatofcar]

I loved the how to win at Ninentdo Games books by Jeff Rovin. I also have a book called Final Fantasy 3 Forbidden Game secrets, which was cool because the maps were all hand-drawn.

[zmweasel]

I loved the how to win at Ninentdo Games books by Jeff Rovin. I also have a book called Final Fantasy 3 Forbidden Game secrets, which was cool because the maps were all hand-drawn.

Jeff Rovin is a good and prolific writer (currently churning out techno-thriller pulp paperbacks such as "Tom Clancy's Op-Center"), but he wasn't a gamer by any means--just a savvy guy who hired some kid-gamers and capitalized on a hot pop-culture trend. He was kind of the Scott Steinberg of his day.

-- Z.

[evildead2099]

Wel said, Wavelflack. But 'fast-tracking' through games isn't a new phenomenon. I admit that I was stupid enough to want a Game Genie back in the day.

[SoulBlazer]

Hey, my folks got me a GG back in the day -- and I used it a lot, to add spice to games I had allready beaten or gotten bored with, or to help in games I could never finish.

I'll second Zach's best works being his WD guides and the two 3DO books. I saw his Zelda: Link to the Past book at a yard sale a few months ago, thumbed through it, and was amazed at the number of errors and how poor the layout was. ;)

[zmweasel]

Hey, my folks got me a GG back in the day -- and I used it a lot, to add spice to games I had allready beaten or gotten bored with, or to help in games I could never finish.

I'll second Zach's best works being his WD guides and the two 3DO books. I saw his Zelda: Link to the Past book at a yard sale a few months ago, thumbed through it, and was amazed at the number of errors and how poor the layout was. ;)

I didn't do the layout, so I won't take the blame for that, but I'm guilty of any errors in content. I was working with a Japanese version of the game, which is a feeble excuse, but it's all I've got.

-- Z.

[maxlords]

Missed this thread before, but I buy most all the RPG guides for games that I own or will buy. If I hate the game, they sell better with the guide. If I like the game but don't have the patience for finding all the nitpicky crap, I use the guide. If I really like the game I try it without the guide. Mostly I just don't have time for a 50-100 hour RPG anymore. I'm one of those people who LIKED games the length they were in the SNES days. I don't feel bad about using guides, especially for compex games or games with lots of hidden stuff or vague directions. Who cares. I still have fun playing em :)

I have over a hundred guides, and thanks to the insane collectors market, they have a net value of over $2500! Crazy collectors. A few games NEED the guides...others...just handy. The Xenosaga guide for example...a necessity. The game is so slow that without the guide, I'd never get ANYWHERE, even tho I like it. I think that they're fine....and I like the extra art in most of em too! But some games REALLY don't need guides....

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

I don't believe for a second that this isn't the publisher's strategy just to guarantee more revenue. What really pisses me off is that a lot of the stuff that's in strategy guides nowadays is stuff that should be included in a half decent instruction manual.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. I've felt, all the way back to the Infocom Invisiclues hint booklet days, that the strategy guide industry is a bit of a racket. I resent the degree to which stuff is rendered "unlockable" only by those who go and buy this thing that doesn't come with the game. If I'm going to pay for a game, I want to be able to play all of it out of the box - not in a Game Genie way, not infinite lives or infinite ammo or anythng like that, but just to be able to play it properly.

Ah well. I'm probably one of these old-school guys that nobody wants to hear from in this thread. :P