DS launch unimpressive, ineffectual

[zmweasel]

Sony has'nt announced a launch date for the PSP in North America, Zach. Or did they make a official annoucement that I somehow missed? I know we have a price and date for JAPAN, but I've seen NOTHING for a date or price for NA. I don't see it being out by March, so Nintendo should be okay with the DS, even if the launch was a bit rushed.

Sony hasn't announced a specific date yet, but the Q1 '05 North American release window (most likely March) has been common knowledge since E3.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I agree with you for the most part. It probably is a no-win situation for Nintendo, except for the fact that they are claiming to have sold 2 million consoles already while barely lifting a finger to do it. That's a win in anyone's book. If that's true, and we're looking at an installed userbase of 4 million people by March with little to no advertising, it could be considered one of the most successful console launches ever in the future.

If the DS can manage several million units sold through in North America before the PSP launches, that will be HUGE for Nintendo, no question.

I'm also interested in the tie-in ratio. Super Mario 64 DS will easily be the best-selling game this Christmas, but it's the third parties I'm going to watch.


Considering the amount of time that it takes to develop a console like this, I think that the DS is not a knee-jerk reaction. Also considering the battery life and power of it, I would say that Nintendo had this sucker in development for a long time. I wouldn't doubt if Nintendo's had a similar product to the DS on the back-burner for years, waiting for an advanced challenger to come along.

Nintendo considerably revamped the DS's design in the six months between E3 and today, which indicates it designed this unit on the fly, and used E3 as a testing ground.


Jeez! Seriously, I wasn't trying to be a "condescending asshole" in any way. You made it very clear in other posts that you work in the industry writing reviews in other threads, yes. Because of that, I thought that perhaps you were privy to some knowledge that I wasn't. Sorry if it came off in the way that you thought it did.

Sorry for misinterpreting your comment.

-- Z.

[goatdan]

I agree with you for the most part. It probably is a no-win situation for Nintendo, except for the fact that they are claiming to have sold 2 million consoles already while barely lifting a finger to do it. That's a win in anyone's book. If that's true, and we're looking at an installed userbase of 4 million people by March with little to no advertising, it could be considered one of the most successful console launches ever in the future.

If the DS can manage several million units sold through in North America before the PSP launches, that will be HUGE for Nintendo, no question.

I'm also interested in the tie-in ratio. Super Mario 64 DS will easily be the best-selling game this Christmas, but it's the third parties I'm going to watch.

Agreed. From the unofficial word of software sales from the people on here, I'm really surprised that the Urbz and Madden weren't selling better than they are. I didn't think they were stellar launch titles, but I did feel that they were decent.



Considering the amount of time that it takes to develop a console like this, I think that the DS is not a knee-jerk reaction. Also considering the battery life and power of it, I would say that Nintendo had this sucker in development for a long time. I wouldn't doubt if Nintendo's had a similar product to the DS on the back-burner for years, waiting for an advanced challenger to come along.

Nintendo considerably revamped the DS's design in the six months between E3 and today, which indicates it designed this unit on the fly, and used E3 as a testing ground.

But what they revamped unless I'm mistaken was the physical appearance of it more than anything else, correct? Since E3 is supposed to be used as a testing ground, I think that only makes sense.

[zmweasel]

But what they revamped unless I'm mistaken was the physical appearance of it more than anything else, correct? Since E3 is supposed to be used as a testing ground, I think that only makes sense.

E3, with very rare exceptions (usually an American publisher displaying an oddball Japanese game to gauge reaction and decide upon localization), isn't a testing ground. It's a place where video game companies try to seduce journos into writing about their stuff, and retailers into carrying their stuff. It's a hype factory.

I'm not upset with Nintendo for revamping the DS, as the final design is superior to the E3 design. One of the biggest reasons for the N-Gage's failure is that Nokia didn't listen to the universal complaints about the numerous design flaws of the proto hardware. Nintendo listened, which is wonderful. The redesign is, however, a clear indicator that the DS was rushed to market. Remember that it was announced in January of THIS YEAR. Nintendo didn't even decide what "DS" officially stood for until after E3.

-- Z.

[GarrettCRW]

Dan, you don't have to be a condescending asshole just because we've clashed in other threads.

You haven't exactly been Casper, the Friendly Ghost with your posts in this thread, either.

[zmweasel]

Dan, you don't have to be a condescending asshole just because we've clashed in other threads.

You haven't exactly been Casper, the Friendly Ghost with your posts in this thread, either.

I misinterpreted Dan's post because of clashes we've had in other threads, and I apologized for that misinterpretation.

And in which of my posts have I been condescending? I'm not hurting Nintendo's feelings by expressing my opinions.

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

I'd be curious to read some reviews of the six games that came out with the system.

I DO plan to get Feel the Magic when I get a DS, and maybe Mario 64 DS as well. Madden I'm sure is fun but I allready have the game. ;) I have'nt heard anything about the Sims game, the racing game, or Spiderman 2.

[petewhitley]

I'd be curious to read some reviews of the six games that came out with the system.

I DO plan to get Feel the Magic when I get a DS, and maybe Mario 64 DS as well. Madden I'm sure is fun but I allready have the game. ;) I have'nt heard anything about the Sims game, the racing game, or Spiderman 2.

GameSpot has reviews up for everything except Urbz. Gave pretty medicore scores for all games.

[zmweasel]

I'd be curious to read some reviews of the six games that came out with the system.

ds.ign.com has posted reviews of four of the launch titles; no opinions on Madden and Urbz yet. Unlike most IGN reviews, they're competently written.

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

Yeah, I tend to gravite toward Gamespot myself. :P

I'll check them out, though. Thanks.

And somehow I still don't see the PSP launching until at least late March at no cheaper then $200. Should be enough time for Nintendo. But we'll see.

[Push Upstairs]

Wait a minute...


the DS came out today? :?

[zmweasel]

Yeah, I tend to gravite toward Gamespot myself. :P

I'll check them out, though. Thanks.

And somehow I still don't see the PSP launching until at least late March at no cheaper then $200. Should be enough time for Nintendo. But we'll see.

At this point, I would be surprised if the PSP *didn't* launch in North America in March '05 at $199. Sony's marketing blitz will start well before that, though, so Nintendo still has to make the most of what's left of its monopoly. That's why this stealth launch is so disappointing. You bet your ass Joe Gamer will know when the PSP is out.

-- Z.

[EnemyZero]

give it time, when the sp came out there were't any commercials or heavy advertising untill after its launch, and most 9 year olds playing pokemon don't read nintendo power, between now and christmas, from word of mouth, and a few other sources im sure the DS will sell like crazy

[FantasiaWHT]

But that's about the time you'll start hearing PSP buzz. Sony knows how to get people excited about their products. People aren't excited about the DS right now; it's scary how many DON'T know about it at all. I don't think the titles between now and christmas will excite people.

I just don't see how Nintendo is going to carry ANY moment into next year.

They could've drowned out the competition with excitement easily, instead it feels like they wanted to go for the quick buck.

Glad to hear that the accessories were out elsewhere. Guess it was just an EB problem =( Were any of those accessories first party?

[jdc]

I think that the average person is going to be pissed off by the DS, not welcoming with open arms.

"Oh, that's fuckin' great. I just bought the stupid SP, now Nintendo's got ANOTHER one out?"

Imagine parents that were pleased to give their kids "the latest" GameBoy last Christmas. How are they going to react when they find out that there's a new one THIS Christmas?

Either the DS is a mistake....or the SP was. I'd go with the latter.

[JJNova]

Bah! The SP came out way too late, and the GBA should have been the SP. Bleh! To hell with the GameBoy franchise.

[goatdan]

I think that the average person is going to be pissed off by the DS, not welcoming with open arms.

"Oh, that's --- great. I just bought the stupid SP, now Nintendo's got ANOTHER one out?"

1989 - Game Boy released
1998 - Game Boy Color released
2001 - Game Boy Advance released

The SP is the same system as the GBA is other than in appearance. The Game Boy Pocket was released in 1996 and didn't negatively impact the Game Boy Color's sales. The three year system life cycle is what Nintendo's had for both the GBC and now it looks like the GBA (if you don't believe Nintendo that they will keep releasing GBA stuff.)

On top of that, you also have to look at the fact that Nintendo is finally facing some real competition with the system. When the Game Boy Color was released, the only competition they had was the Neo Geo Pocket, which while I really enjoy it wasn't that much more advance than the GBC. The PSP is that much more advanced than the Game Boy Advance, and Nintendo knows they have to get a high end produce to market. The DS is it.

[kainemaxwell]

Expect PSP and DS ads during the Super Bowl come Feb. too I'd imagine.

[jaybird]

Expect PSP and DS ads during the Super Bowl come Feb. too I'd imagine.

Sony may bite, but that's some real expensive air-time. Has there ever been a gaming system or game advertised during the Super Bowl?

[zmweasel]

give it time, when the sp came out there were't any commercials or heavy advertising untill after its launch, and most 9 year olds playing pokemon don't read nintendo power, between now and christmas, from word of mouth, and a few other sources im sure the DS will sell like crazy

You seem to be missing the same obvious point as many others: Nintendo could afford to wait until after shipping the SP before promoting it because Nintendo had no competition. That's not the case with the DS, which will have the high-end portable market to itself for only a few months before the PSP launches.

Also, Nintendo's intent is to market the DS to teenagers and adults (Sony's demographic), not preteens (Nintendo's Game Boy demographic).

And I wouldn't count on "word of mouth" to save the day for Nintendo. The Metroid Prime Hunters demo is getting better buzz than any of the launch titles. The best game of the launch is a revamped eight-year-old title that makes no legitimate use of the second screen or touch-screen, and that aptly demonstrates what will be a recurring problem for the DS, the lack of analog control.

Everyone here is excited about the DS, but the DP forum certainly doesn't mirror the big picture. If it did, the GameCube would be in first place in North America, not third.

-- Z.

[Kamino]

Lastly, do any of us know how marketing is being held in Japan where the PSP launches in about two weeks? I'd imagine that is the market Nintendo would focus on for now. I haven't heard anything about the Nintendo market. Considering you are so in touch with the industry, perhaps you have?

And Japan's market affects us HOW?
The PC Engine library DWARFS the US TG16 library. Sold great there, not hot here.

-----
As for the statement that playing GBA on the DS is so much better due to frontlighting/backlighting issues;
If i'd only known about the GB player a week sooner, i wouldn't have an SP.
DS won't play GB/GBC. I'll just fire up the GB player and SGB, and that'll fix it fine ;)

[NintendoMan]

So Nintendo's going to wait until the DS and the PSP are both on the shelves before marketing the DS, instead of marketing the DS while it has the field to itself. Yes, that makes...no sense at all.
Zach,
They're essentially sold out right now. We'll see how many more arrive on store shelves, but if what they're claiming is true, I don't see any point in marketing the system like mad right now.

When they get more stock, they can begin a bigger push. I expect that their real marketing will kick in around late December / early January -- well in advance of the PSP, but with enough time to actually get the DS to store shelves.

Also, Nintendo also needs heavy campaigning WHILE THE PSP is getting released. They need commercials then, as well as before, the PSP is released. I mean NIntendo will want their promoting going on WHILE the PSP is because they know they need promoting then so the only thing we DON'T see is PSP things. They want to throw in as much Nintendo commercials and advertising as they can to draw away from the PSP as much as possible.

[NintendoMan]

The first post mentioned no accesories on launch day. My target had all sorts of cases and such on release day.

Yeah, I just got back from Target and saw a lot of things for the DS. I really want a case, but will hold off as long as I can do find one that is PERFECT.

[NintendoMan]

I think that the average person is going to be pissed off by the DS, not welcoming with open arms.

"Oh, that's fuckin' great. I just bought the stupid SP, now Nintendo's got ANOTHER one out?"

Imagine parents that were pleased to give their kids "the latest" GameBoy last Christmas. How are they going to react when they find out that there's a new one THIS Christmas?

Either the DS is a mistake....or the SP was. I'd go with the latter.

Whatever though. You can't just NOT put out a product because it might make some people made. It is like that with computer systems, but people still buy them. Like any other thing.
And yes, it will make a few people made. But so what. They most likely wouldn't have got it anyways since they just gave there kid something like the GBA SP last year. If if they would have, well then great, get the DS this year.

[Push Upstairs]

I think that the average person is going to be pissed off by the DS, not welcoming with open arms.

"Oh, that's fuckin' great. I just bought the stupid SP, now Nintendo's got ANOTHER one out?"

Imagine parents that were pleased to give their kids "the latest" GameBoy last Christmas. How are they going to react when they find out that there's a new one THIS Christmas?

This is what i've been saying. In fact, when i worked at a game store parents were kinda pissed that thier kids wanted an SP



Either the DS is a mistake....or the SP was. I'd go with the latter.

I love the GBA (because its easier to hold) but the GBA is where Nintendo screwed up. That screen was terrible.


And now here all this talk about how the DS launch went...my opinon that a gamecube N64 adaptor being a waste of money doesnt seem so terrible.

Save the $$ for the PSP launch Nintendo, you'll need it.

[NintendoMan]

As for the statement that playing GBA on the DS is so much better due to frontlighting/backlighting issues;
If i'd only known about the GB player a week sooner, i wouldn't have an SP.
DS won't play GB/GBC. I'll just fire up the GB player and SGB, and that'll fix it fine ;)

Oh yeah, definately get the GB Player. (If you don't already have one) I love that Nintendo released that. Like I said before, I play my GB Player 10 times more than my GBA SP. That will change alot though due to the DS. :)

[NintendoMan]

I think that the average person is going to be pissed off by the DS, not welcoming with open arms.

"Oh, that's fuckin' great. I just bought the stupid SP, now Nintendo's got ANOTHER one out?"

Imagine parents that were pleased to give their kids "the latest" GameBoy last Christmas. How are they going to react when they find out that there's a new one THIS Christmas?

This is what i've been saying. In fact, when i worked at a game store parents were kinda pissed that thier kids wanted an SP



Either the DS is a mistake....or the SP was. I'd go with the latter.

I love the GBA (because its easier to hold) but the GBA is where Nintendo screwed up. That screen was terrible.


And now here all this talk about how the DS launch went...my opinon that a gamecube N64 adaptor being a waste of money doesnt seem so terrible.

Save the $$ for the PSP launch Nintendo, you'll need it.

Well, I don't consider selling, what, 20-25 million is it, GBA's a mistake!!!

And yes, nintendo does need to save most of the marketing money for the PSP launch!!!! It takes focus off of the definate marketing blitz that PSP will have.

[Push Upstairs]

Well, I don't consider selling, what, 20-25 million is it, GBA's a mistake!!!

I'd consider releasing a product with an *OBVIOUS* problem then turning around and releasing a improved version of it a single year later to either be one of two things:

1. A mistake.
2. A blatant attempt to get more money from the consumers.


I'd like to believe its #1, but lately i think its more #2.

[lendelin]

I asked this in another thread already: WHAT ABOUT THE SECOND SCREEN??

It is really amazing. The big innovative selling point and all the hype when the DS was announced was the second screen, and how innovative it will be. New gameplay experiences, never before seen design (except for a version of the old Game and Watch from the 80s)...

...and now, noone mentions THE new innovative feature of the DS which sets its apart from the PSP.

I say it again, if there is not a very good use of the second screen, it will be regarded as an unnecessary appendix, and the PSP will come out on top. What I read in mags about the lined-up games so far, I just can't see any appeal of the second screen. It doesn't do a thing which a push of a button can do in a single screen handheld...bringing up MAPS.

The stylus-shooting of Metroid seems to get old, and when I read that the control in Mario is awkward, then my alarm bells turn on.

So far, my intial skepticism is dangerously confirmed. It might be that the second screen will become more of a burden than anything else.

[zmweasel]

The best online review of Super Mario 64 DS, which also touches upon some of the DS's inherent problems, is at 1up.com:

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3136792

-- Z.

[le geek]

The best online review of Super Mario 64 DS, which also touches upon some of the DS's inherent problems, is at 1up.com:

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3136792

-- Z.

You know this might be where being left handed helps, but playing SMB64DS in standard mode with the stylus (forget the thumbpad), seems to work pretty well for me...


Everyone here is excited about the DS, but the DP forum certainly doesn't mirror the big picture. If it did, the GameCube would be in first place in North America, not third.

Excellent point...



I asked this in another thread already: WHAT ABOUT THE SECOND SCREEN??

For me it's not so much that it's a second screen, but that it's a touch screen. Try Feel the Magic. While not as polished as Warioware or Katamari Damanci, it shows off a lot of what the DS can do...

Cheers,
Ben

[Raedon]

Nintendos stock also rose about 3% (closer to five now?). which is pretty good, when their stock already costs triple digits.


Then 3% more people are going to loose money.

[lendelin]

The best online review of Super Mario 64 DS, which also touches upon some of the DS's inherent problems, is at 1up.com:

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3136792

-- Z.

Good review. From the review about Mario:


There's little about the game that justifies having dual screens -- the bottom screen is used primarily for displaying a map of the current area, but you know, I did just fine without one all those years ago. The other function served by the second screen is to make up for the differences between the N64 controller and the DS: the lack of those little camera buttons (no bad thing) is compensated for by four tappable camera controls on the system's bottom screen, which admittedly works fairly well but certainly could have been achieved through other means.


This was my feeling in the last couple of months exactly. Maps for racers? I can't even look at the outline of the track when racing, and when you are able to, then you know the track already very well. Maps for mario: push a button, and the thing comes up.

If you make a feature like the second screen THE big selling point, and you don't deliver...then you're in big trouble. The dependency on the innovative feature of the second screen is frightening. How many third party developers will make use of it? How many ports of the console game, designed not with the second screen in mind, will treat the second screen as a gimmick?

Frequent gamers and casual gamers will go over time for the PSP if they play a dual screen system and have to ask themselves: why do I need that second screen?

I'm skeptical, VERY skeptical.

[Raedon]

People.. Stop quoting Lik-Sang.. they are not a news site they sell you stuff.. The even sold me my GBA flash card so they are in the business of hussling.

[Blendo75]

The best online review of Super Mario 64 DS, which also touches upon some of the DS's inherent problems, is at 1up.com:

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3136792

-- Z.

Interesting. Being that I actually have a DS and Mario 64 I can tell you that the reviewer is not being honest with you about the touchscreen analog control, either that or he only tried it for a few minutes and gave up. At first I was scared myself, the digital control SUCKED and I thought that there was no way I was going to enjoy the analog control. Well I finally pulled on the thumb strap and gave it a go... wow it was tough. Just like the reviewer said, there's no "feedback" so you dont really know how far to move your thumb - AT FIRST. After playing like that about a half an hour I completely forgot what I was doing and realized I was playing "normally" - in other words the controls felt very natural. I cant speak for everyone though, maybe some people will never get the hang of it.

Still, the reason for the second screen is pretty clear, it's a controller. If you dont want to use the touch screen as a controller then dont get a DS. I dont see how this is a good review at all, if you cant use the touch screen to control the game then the whole DS is a wash not Mario 64 itself.
The Mario 64 port itself is fantastic - loots of new goodies. By far the best Mario port they've done so far. You can tell they really went all out, even more than they did with the SP port of Mario 3.

And as far as the analog control is that what you mean by "inherent problem"? You having problems using it with your DS?

[scooterb23]

For every warm fuzzy moment of fond nostalgia that Mario 64 DS offers

For some reason this line made my skin crawl. I admit to be no fan of Mario 64 (I think it was a lousy game), but I have trouble imagining feeling "fuzzy nostalgia" for something only 10 years old...

[le geek]

Frequent gamers and casual gamers will go over time for the PSP if they play a dual screen system and have to ask themselves: why do I need that second screen?

I'm skeptical, VERY skeptical.

I will say this, touchscreen / dual screen / microphone or no, look at screenshot/video from the DS version of Ridge Racer, then look at the superior PSP version...

It's really no question which one looks more appealing...

Cheers,
Ben

[lendelin]

I asked this in another thread already: WHAT ABOUT THE SECOND SCREEN??

For me it's not so much that it's a second screen, but that it's a touch screen. Try Feel the Magic. While not as polished as Warioware or Katamari Damanci, it shows off a lot of what the DS can do...

Cheers,
Ben

Well, what can it do? It wasn't a rhetorical question, I'm really interested in if the DS delivers in this crucial department.

It is very crucial becasue this feature was introduced to set the DS apart from the PSP.

The PSP will have a very starightforward marketing...it is a mini-PS2, slick looking, great graphics. Second screen, stylus, messages written....I don't know, if the games don't deliver, the prospects for the DS aren't good at all.

[Raedon]

give it time, when the sp came out there were't any commercials or heavy advertising untill after its launch,

Yea, but it was the only game in town. Sony.. SONY..

In my youth Nintendo was the sytem.. NES, SNES.. but now I'm in my 30's and the portible industry is still a kids sale..

gamers from 5 to 20 know PSX and PS2.. Sony will win this.

[zmweasel]

And as far as the analog control is that what you mean by "inherent problem"? You having problems using it with your DS?

Quoting the review:

"Unlike many people, I don't think the DS is destined for failure at the hands of the PSP; but at the same time, I also don't think games like Mario 64 DS are ideal for the platform."

In other words, the DS isn't suited to 3D third-person-view games, a meta-"category" which the majority of 3D games fall into.

"There's little about the game that justifies having dual screens -- the bottom screen is used primarily for displaying a map of the current area, but you know, I did just fine without one all those years ago."

In other words, the DS's second screen is a gimmick.

"So ultimately, you'll probably choose to use the D-pad, which is brilliant for 2D games and wretched for 3D. The decision to use a D-pad on the DS was undoubtedly another example of Nintendo's bloody-minded adherence to tradition (given that they invented D-pads in the first place), but it's one that works to the detriment of the system."

In other words, the DS suffers for lack of analog control. The horribly awkward touch-screen/thumb-strap combo is by no means an adequate substitute.

"I also found myself suffering a bit of eyestrain with Mario 64 DS. Even though the screen is brighter and crisper than that of the GBA SP, I found playing the game for more than half an hour at a time gave me a headache, regardless of lighting conditions. I'm worried that this is a sign that the DS's screens are slightly too small to facilitate 3D games of this variety, and it's likely that once the PSP arrives with its huge, beautiful screen Nintendo's new system is only going to seem worse in comparison."

One of this forum's best and brightest posters, ianoid, has mentioned he's looking forward to the PSP for the very reason that its screen is frickin' huge. Small screens are fine for sharp-eyed chitlins, but not so hot for blurry-eyed adults. (1-UP's reviewer, Jeremy Parish, is 29.)

-- Z.

[Blendo75]

Quoting the review:

"There's little about the game that justifies having dual screens -- the bottom screen is used primarily for displaying a map of the current area, but you know, I did just fine without one all those years ago."

In other words, the DS's second screen is a gimmick.

It's used as a controller. If there was only one screen then you'd have only a touch screen and you'd be very limited to what you could put on the screen and the types of games you could play. I guess they could just leave the screen blank if seeing a map bothers people so much LOL Seriously what's the problem? Do you really think that Nintendo has the idea that if they just throw on an extra screen then all the kids will want one? If there was only one screen this touch-screen business just wouldnt fly.

I tried using the D-pad and I actually found I preferred the analog control.

That's right. Prefer it. And you can quote that. Oh but I must be a lying fanboy right? Maybe if I were a professional reviewer my opinion on it would be taken serously?




In other words, the DS suffers for lack of analog control. The horribly awkward touch-screen/thumb-strap combo is by no means an adequate substitute.

What's wrong with it? It's definitely different but "horribly awkward" never entered my mind even when I was "learning" how to use it. I asked you if you were having problems with the analog control on your DS and you didnt answer me. Maybe your touch screen is messed up or needs calibrated. I mean seriously... "horribly awkard"?? If you dont have a DS then I certainly am not going to try to sell you on one, if you are that turned off to the idea of a touch screen then that's cool! But your ravenous bashing of it is... strange to say the least :)



One of this forum's best and brightest posters, ianoid, has mentioned he's looking forward to the PSP for the very reason that its screen is frickin' huge. Small screens are fine for sharp-eyed chitlins, but not so hot for blurry-eyed adults. (1-UP's reviewer, Jeremy Parish, is 29.)

So because someone who is "bright" is waiting for a bigger screen that means what? I'm too stupid to know when a screen is too small and I'm ruining my eyes? I am also 29 and suffered no eyestrain, not on the magnitude the reviewer's talking about. I too am looking forward to the PSP and I think it's screen looks fantastic. I imagine if you stared at either screen long enough you'd get eyestrain. Reading a book will do that too.

[le geek]

I asked this in another thread already: WHAT ABOUT THE SECOND SCREEN??

For me it's not so much that it's a second screen, but that it's a touch screen. Try Feel the Magic. While not as polished as Warioware or Katamari Damanci, it shows off a lot of what the DS can do...

Cheers,
Ben

Well, what can it do? It wasn't a rhetorical question, I'm really interested in if the DS delivers in this crucial department.

It is very crucial becasue this feature was introduced to set the DS apart from the PSP.

The PSP will have a very starightforward marketing...it is a mini-PS2, slick looking, great graphics. Second screen, stylus, messages written....I don't know, if the games don't deliver, the prospects for the DS aren't good at all.

All the "mini games" (Feel the Magic is a series on mini games tied together through the story) use the stylus on the touch screen, or the microphone. It is an experience that cannot be duplicated on the PSP.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/567/567496p1.html

Also I'm looking forward to trying out the wireless capabilities.

BTW Nintendo still needs to be worried, unless Sony's PSP breaks really easily or the worst case of battery life comes true (Both unlikely). PSP is going to steal significant market share. I don't think either system is going totally dominate, but even so this will be a blow to Nintendo. I hope they are still developing GBA2 (or whatever it will be called). If DS is truely to be a third pillar, I think succeeds. As a replacement GBA, I'm not so sure...



Is the system fun though, and are there games coming down the pipeline that are exciting that take advantage of the uniqueness of DS? Yes and yes.

Look for Pac in Roll, Puppy Times, Wario Ware Touched! Animal Crossing is also a natural for the DS, I only hope they add enough original content and don't just remake it...

[lendelin]

There are three points which turned my alarm bells on:

1. In enthusiastic posts about the DS no mentioning of the second screen.

2. Analog control issues for third person 3D games? What's left then? Incredibly bad. Nintendo has to go the route away from 2D games if they wanna compete with the PSP.

3. If the touch screens main purpose is to be a controller, then it delivers even less than the traditional pad. Again, very bad.

There is always hope that future games will make great use of the second screen, but I'm skeptical.

From what I read so far about launch day and the games released, the DS will have a hell of a time to compete against a slicker, wider, better quality screen with better resolution.

The marketing for the DS won't be easy, the marketing for the PSP will be as straightforward as it can get.

[le geek]

There are three points which turned my alarm bells on...

All I can say is the DS is truly a Green Eggs & Ham kind of system. You really need to try it, and the Metroid Prime Hunters demo isn't the best demo...


The marketing for the DS won't be easy, the marketing for the PSP will be as straightforward as it can get.

This is very true.

[Blendo75]

There are three points which turned my alarm bells on:

1. In enthusiastic posts about the DS no mentioning of the second screen.

2. Analog control issues for third person 3D games? What's left then? Incredibly bad. Nintendo has to go the route away from 2D games if they wanna compete with the PSP.

3. If the touch screens main purpose is to be a controller, then it delivers even less than the traditional pad. Again, very bad.


Oh my God. Look I do not have fantastic reflexes and I do not have a Magic Thumb and I am able to use the second screen as an analog controller. I move my Regular Thumb around and Yoshi goes where I want. You can touch it with your fingers, or the stylus, or the much-maligned thumb pad. It's just like a PDA, really. You poke at the screen and stuff happens. Its fun to poke little Marios and make them jump up in the air.

It seems to me that the real reason there are two screens is that if you're using the lower screen to touch and fondle then you cant SEE what's going on in the game. Mario 64 has some camera controls on the lower screen and a map. You move your thumb pad around on the lower screen and watch the action mostly on the top screen. The bottom screen shows areas of interest on the map, and it shows your "target", where you need to go, on the map. So yeah, the map is hardly integral to the game. You could live without it. But, imagine if the game had touch controls on the game screen itself, imagine that you're sticking your thumb all over the screen that has the game you're playing. How could you see what was going on? So there you go - two screens. If it only had one screen, oh that would be very bad indeed.

Still though $150 is a lot of money and it sounds like you dont want to spend it. Hey, dont. To me having a touch screen is a pretty natural step forward for hand-held gaming. Maybe that's because I'm used to using a PDA.

[redcurrie]

DS won't play GB/GBC. ;)

Is this true because if so, they just lost a sale to me! Most of the games I play are GB/GBC so there would be no point in picking up a DS. :)

[goatdan]

Lastly, do any of us know how marketing is being held in Japan where the PSP launches in about two weeks? I'd imagine that is the market Nintendo would focus on for now. I haven't heard anything about the Nintendo market. Considering you are so in touch with the industry, perhaps you have?

And Japan's market affects us HOW?
The PC Engine library DWARFS the US TG16 library. Sold great there, not hot here.

Because seeing if Nintendo is advertising like mad in a place that the competitors product is coming out will probably mirror how they will advertise when that same copetitors product comes out here in the US. If Nintendo hasn't been marketing much in Japan, I think that it sets them much further back than if they are and then I really question their judgement.

Nintendo the Japanese market if they truly want to become a dominant system. Every console released since the 2600 has pretty much proven that without a foothold in both continents, you can't be considered a complete success (see Xbox currently for an example of this... As another thread pointed out, a big named Japan exclusive Xbox title sold 2000 copies in its first week of release. At $50.00, apiece, that means that the game has grossed $100,000.00 if you don't take into effect marketing, packaging or distribution costs. Companies can't make games for a console if they can't make money, and if the DS doesn't get a foothold in Japan or America, it is going to be at an extremely big disadvantage compared to a system that gets a foothold in both markets. Same with the PSP if it doesn't get somewhat of a foothold in both markets.

---

Raedon, thank you for being such a Sony fanboy in this conversation. Looking at your recent posts, 15 of the last 20 of them (Sunday until today) have had no point other than to say "Nintendo droolz, Sony roolz!" Even though there is no reason to counterpoint you, I'm going to just offer some things anyway...


People.. Stop quoting Lik-Sang.. they are not a news site they sell you stuff.. The even sold me my GBA flash card so they are in the business of hussling.

I'm the one who quoted Lik-Sang after you called BS about the third DS factory. I also quoted C-Net and two other sources. I suppose that C-Net is also not a news site, hunh?

And Lik-Sang is not in the business of "hussling." They sold you an item for a system that they carried and they delivered. If they stole your money or didn't deliver on their claims, then you would have a point...


Then 3% more people are going to loose money.

I hate to tell you this, but this isn't how the stock market works. When a stock price raises 3%, it does not mean that 3% more people invested in them. It means that investors feel that the company is going to grow in some way, and not "loose" market share and so on. The raise in Nintendo's stock price means that analysts feel that the DS is a good move for them to be making.

If these same investors feel that they aren't going to do as well, they can sell their stocks before they "loose" their money. If they sold now, they would leave the game with a gain.

There are a lot of people here debating this in a lot of interesting ways. It is always interesting any time a new console launches. I'll probably be on here posting about the US PSP launch shortly after it comes out too because it is all interesting. If you have any points to add, I would love to hear them. Until then...

I'm calling BS!

[snesfreak]

Nintendo is supposed to release an earnings announcement on Thursday. I'm certain they'll give some guidance on the DS launch. I hope Radeon doesn't "loose" any money...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ce?s=NTDOY.PK


[/quote]

[dethink]

honestly, after the initial "whee!" factor of this thing wore off yesterday, i checked out the release list, and it doesn't inspire me with confidence to say the least.

metroid isn't out til may? all the other big titles have been pushed back to 9/2005 or later? well after the PSP launch, and games making the difference doesn't ammount to a hill of beans if they aren't there.

i love me some mario 64, but the control is a step backwards, and this is a confused, rushed product. why not build an address book, AIM compatibility or something like that into it?

nintendo has screwed the pooch with their 3rd parties since the N64 days, and currently they get lackluster translations or ports of their 3rd party's titles on the GBA and the gamecube. i fear with the DS we're just going to see bad 3D ports of popular console titles with a map at the bottom, since no one will want to devote the extra resources to actually integrate it properly. unfortunately, the DS is so different in it's main aspect, simply lowering the poly count and button arrangement isn't going to equal a successful title that it capitalizes on the unique hardware abilities. if nintendo realizes this, they'll probably try some of their 1990 tactics, and try to strongarm their 3rd parties into forcing them to use the screen to some arbitrary standard, and suceed in pissing them off even more, meaning less support in the future.

when it all comes down to it, people are going to do something like the ridge racer vs. ridge racer comparison, and guess which one they're gonna pony up $50 more for and walk out with?

i really really want this to succeed as i see the possibilities (think of an input device with the flexibility to constantly change as needs dictate, kind of like an LCD universal remote version of the 5200/jaguar controller's telephone pad), but the touch screen, the feature that this console is supposed to succeed on, IS a gimmick at this point.

i suspect this hardware WAS in development for a long time to address things like battery life, and the form was finalized after the mass BOO-urns'ing the unit received at E3. nintendo probably had all the hardware specs finalized a while back, planned to release it a year or 2 from now since they had no competiton, then sony dropped the PSP bomb. nintendo rushed into production, revamped the cosmetics, and is off to the races...

[XxMe2NiKxX]

The release dates are incorrect, most of the mjaor hits (including NSMB) are slated for Q1 still.

IT takes all of half an hour to learn how to use the touch-screen as a controller. IF you don't have that kind of dedication to learn controls, that's the sad part. And besides, the touchscreen minigames in sm64DS are great, don't give me bullshit about how it doesn't use the screen.

[xaer0knight]

Also, Nintendo's intent is to market the DS to teenagers and adults (Sony's demographic), not preteens (Nintendo's Game Boy demographic).

-- Z.

Its all fine and dandy that marketing is looking at demographics, but i really dont care about it. I could care less if the DS had a GTA, or a Mortal Kombat, or a Metal Gear. I would like to think games have more depth than having lots of blood or whoa factor. Im sick off all the games that have Blood, guts, and firetrucks insted of good playablitity or great story. I'll raither play some Nintendo title because of funness or story over a game of whoa factor and lots of gore. I raither see the DS success over the PSP, innovation goes all the way and its up to the devolopers and publishers to utilize the innovation insted of Nintendo catching FLACK.

[Raedon]

---

Raedon, thank you for being such a Sony fanboy in this conversation.

Actually I'm a Nintendo Fanboy. The only system, including variations, I don't have is the one being discussed and I can assure you I will have one.

I didn't even own a PSX I had the N64 right up until I got a used PSX right around the time the PS2 was a year old.

[dethink]

The release dates are incorrect, most of the mjaor hits (including NSMB) are slated for Q1 still.

IT takes all of half an hour to learn how to use the touch-screen as a controller. IF you don't have that kind of dedication to learn controls, that's the sad part. And besides, the touchscreen minigames in sm64DS are great, don't give me bullshit about how it doesn't use the screen.

my my my, aren't we touchy today?

still slated for a specific date is pretty much meaningless, as the unicorn that is GT4 handily points out. retailers are saying may and september, and nintendo is no stranger to delays either.

i have the dedication to learn controls, as i've been at this gaming thing for 20+ years. however, when a major player in the industry takes an innovation (that they incidentally introduced for the home market in 1996) that has since become an industry wide standard for input, then completely abandons it for a new product, and gives us a stop gap solution when there are clearly other alternatives available, is pretty sad IMO. sticking with the portable PC motif that the touchscreen follows, would something as compact as an analog nub of some kind, a la the old IBM think pads, been that tough to include? or revamp particular sections that digital or half-assed analog controls aren't suitable for? i can play mario 64 on my powerbook, and get roughly the same experience.

and yes, i find the mini-games to be fun as well. as a professional designer, the idea of drawing in a game tickles my fancy. to the gamer in me however, they're amusing tech demos, and nothing more. i would *not* buy a DS based on the strength of those games.

i did think the bundled metroid prime demo is a briliant piece of code however, as it manages to make good, intuitive use of the hardware's unique capabilities (all except the microphone), as well as showing off the advancements that have been made in graphics/sound for a portable console.

do i think the product is completely doomed, and nintendo sux0rZ? of course not. mario 64 will keep me entertained for a good couple months, but then what? will we get more games like metroid prime, that use the hardware to it's fullest, or more feel the magics, that while cool and innovative, aren't particularly great as games once the sheen of innovation wears off?

on a completely different topic, based on the metroid demo, and the mario port, why are we getting a half-assed NST version of ridge racer? i'm sure the whizzes at namco could give us a port similar in graphical quality to R4 on the PSX, which was easily the best of the series. grr. </ RR fanboi rant>

[goatdan]

Actually I'm a Nintendo Fanboy. The only system, including variations, I don't have is the one being discussed and I can assure you I will have one.

I didn't even own a PSX I had the N64 right up until I got a used PSX right around the time the PS2 was a year old.

Fair 'nuff.

I've just been a little put off by your comments, especially the two that seemed to be directed at me. I come to these boards to discuss various ideas about the industry because I find it fascinating, not for any other reason. I've shared why I feel that we have to wait to judge the DS's release, if you feel that you can already judge it then please post your reasons, I would be interested to know them and consider them.

That's why I come here. :) To hear and consider the various aspects of gaming from a variety of people. Remember -- the reasons there are different games and different systems is because everyone likes something a little different. If the same thing pleased everyone, we wouldn't need gaming collections as there wouldn't be too much to collect...

On a side note and back on topic: I was at a bar for a meeting today (it's actually where I work so it makes a great place to go to. Unfortunately, since you're on the clock you don't drink though.) Anyway, the bar has six or seven projection screens and about 10 other TVs scattered throughout it. From where I was sitting, I could only see two really well, but BET was on one of them and kept showing the Metriod Prime 2 commercial and a Nintendo DS commercial.

BET isn't a channel that I normally watch (I don't even have cable), but if I'm not mistaken it targets a bit of an older demographic. And while the NDS commercial was underwhelming, I was really shocked to see it so often. The time was between 12:00 and 2:00.

Perhaps the blitz started today? Has anyone else seen anything else?

[Raedon]

People.. Stop quoting Lik-Sang.. they are not a news site they sell you stuff.. The even sold me my GBA flash card so they are in the business of hussling.

I'm the one who quoted Lik-Sang after you called BS about the third DS factory. I also quoted C-Net and two other sources. I suppose that C-Net is also not a news site, hunh?

And Lik-Sang is not in the business of "hussling." They sold you an item for a system that they carried and they delivered. If they stole your money or didn't deliver on their claims, then you would have a point...


Then 3% more people are going to loose money.

I hate to tell you this, but this isn't how the stock market works. When a stock price raises 3%, it does not mean that 3% more people invested in them. It means that investors feel that the company is going to grow in some way, and not "loose" market share and so on. The raise in Nintendo's stock price means that analysts feel that the DS is a good move for them to be making.

If these same investors feel that they aren't going to do as well, they can sell their stocks before they "loose" their money. If they sold now, they would leave the game with a gain.

There are a lot of people here debating this in a lot of interesting ways. It is always interesting any time a new console launches. I'll probably be on here posting about the US PSP launch shortly after it comes out too because it is all interesting. If you have any points to add, I would love to hear them. Until then...

I'm calling BS!

oh lord someone has lost it.

Lik-Sang didn't rip ME off they ripped NOA off because I don't own one GBA cart.. They got sued and the web site was down for a while for selling them and mod chips if I remember correctly. Before you say something like, "no, you ripped of Nintendo" Yes, I own roms.. do you?

As for the stock I guess I had lost interest in your post and didn't read it threw. I thought you said 3% more stock was sold at a 3 digit price.. Regardless Nintendo is going to loose investor money but has been playing them for fools if they don't sell now. Nintendo will not go into the red on this even if they never make a game again.

[Raedon]

..and I'm done descussing or debating or anything else on the subject.. It can't go anywhere but downhill from here..

*GOES TO PLAY BURNOUT 3*

[JJNova]

*corrupts your Burnout 3 saves files...err...nevermind, the game does that enough on it's own*


*decides to wait for NSMB before buying a DS*

[goatdan]

oh lord someone has lost it.

Lik-Sang didn't rip ME off they ripped NOA off because I don't own one GBA cart.. They got sued and the web site was down for a while for selling them and mod chips if I remember correctly. Before you say something like, "no, you ripped of Nintendo" Yes, I own roms.. do you?

First off, whatever you're talking about getting I can't find on their Web site. How Lik-Sang operates -- as well as every other major retail store -- is that they purchase products that they believe to be legitimate and sell them. If they end up with something that isn't and are asked to stop, they do and have. Ever heard of the Treamcast? Lik-Sang started selling this console which was a Dreamcast with a built-in LCD screen through their Web site. Sega contacted them and informed them that it wasn't an officially sanctioned release and was infringing on Sega's patents, and Lik-Sang stopped carrying it.

If there was anything illegal about the cartridge that you got, Nintendo could have asked them to stop carrying it and they would have. Nintendo might have actually sued Lik-Sang, but trust me they didn't go down. Lik-Sang is one of the largest exporters in Hong Kong, and if they were as shady as you make them out to be, would have been shut down a long time ago.

Secondly, I will admit that I have some ROMs, but for the most part I don't play them. I'll admit that I've been playing PinMAME quite a bit lately, but I actually know the people that own the rights to the games that I've been playing, and I'm on very good terms with them.

I'm not sitting here claiming that you ripped Nintendo off - it isn't even my position to care, and reflects nothing on the conversation. But you do seem to be awfully guilty about something. If you feel so bad about whatever cartridge it is that you ended up with, why did you buy it in the first place? I assume that Lik-Sang was selling these as a development tool, which means that it would be legal for them to sell -- and then you are doing the illegal thing by putting games on it.


As for the stock I guess I had lost interest in your post and didn't read it threw. I thought you said 3% more stock was sold at a 3 digit price.. Regardless Nintendo is going to loose investor money but has been playing them for fools if they don't sell now. Nintendo will not go into the red on this even if they never make a game again.

I wasn't the one that quoted that, but it is obvious that you haven't read much "threw" on here. Nintendo hasn't "loosed" any investor money yet, and if the investors feel that they will make more money in the future why would they sell now? Especially if Nintendo will not go in the red on this. Hell, I wish I could say that about the companies that I own stocks in. It seems that Nintendo would be a smart choice.

[petewhitley]

Do you really think that Nintendo has the idea that if they just throw on an extra screen then all the kids will want one?

Judging from the launch games (and for that matter most of the announced games) and their lack of innovative uses for the extra screen, I do believe that. Obviously somewhere in the development of the DS there was more to it than this, but as lendelin quite succinctly pointed out, Nintendo and it's 3rd party publishers have failed to create anything compelling that couldn't be done with a traditional configuration.

[le geek]

Do you really think that Nintendo has the idea that if they just throw on an extra screen then all the kids will want one?

Judging from the launch games (and for that matter most of the announced games) and their lack of innovative uses for the extra screen, I do believe that. Obviously somewhere in the development of the DS there was more to it than this, but as lendelin quite succinctly pointed out, Nintendo and it's 3rd party publishers have failed to create anything compelling that couldn't be done with a traditional configuration.

With the exception of Feel the Magic...

[Promophile]

Do you really think that Nintendo has the idea that if they just throw on an extra screen then all the kids will want one?

Judging from the launch games (and for that matter most of the announced games) and their lack of innovative uses for the extra screen, I do believe that. Obviously somewhere in the development of the DS there was more to it than this, but as lendelin quite succinctly pointed out, Nintendo and it's 3rd party publishers have failed to create anything compelling that couldn't be done with a traditional configuration.

With the exception of Feel the Magic...

Does any system reach its full potential with launch titles? hell no. Go check out the link that was posted a few days ago showing lots of upcoming games. Lots of great ideas that you couldn't do with a regular system.

[calthaer]

I'm amazed that people here think that "amount of hype" = "success of video game system."

The NES did just fine by inching its way into the market - in effect, creating the market for its products. It's certainly possible for them to do the same for the DS.

One could also look at it this way: even if all of the good games come out next year around when the PSP launches, each and every DS they sell from now until then will be a bit more of the market share that they own over and above Sony, most likely (unless people buy both). That is, unless the pixel thing ruins the reputation of the product - we'll see. Although the PS2 - especially that launch lot - had its own share of problems that are well-known...and their sales aren't hurting too much.

We'll see how things are when Nintendo really gets going. I think it's rather premature to be making any definitive calls on anything at this point. It's been what, one week? C'mon.

[petewhitley]

Does any system reach its full potential with launch titles? hell no. Go check out the link that was posted a few days ago showing lots of upcoming games. Lots of great ideas that you couldn't do with a regular system.

I've seen the list of upcoming announced titles. Where exactly are those great ideas you speak of? Animal Crossing with an on-screen keyboard? Wario Ware? There's a couple of games which seem to genuinely attempt innovation, but the majority of what's announced appear to use the extra screen as a map/playbook/something else equally lackluster.

[zmweasel]

It's used as a controller. If there was only one screen then you'd have only a touch screen and you'd be very limited to what you could put on the screen and the types of games you could play. I guess they could just leave the screen blank if seeing a map bothers people so much LOL Seriously what's the problem? Do you really think that Nintendo has the idea that if they just throw on an extra screen then all the kids will want one? If there was only one screen this touch-screen business just wouldnt fly.

Video games have hardly been "limited" by a single screen, touch-sensitive or not.

No one is complaining about the touch-screen's capabilities (although the tech, by its very nature, is much more suited to 2D than 3D). It's that the touch-screen/thumb-nubbin combo is a kludgey, awkward implementation of analog control.


What's wrong with it? It's definitely different but "horribly awkward" never entered my mind even when I was "learning" how to use it. I asked you if you were having problems with the analog control on your DS and you didnt answer me. Maybe your touch screen is messed up or needs calibrated. I mean seriously... "horribly awkard"?? If you dont have a DS then I certainly am not going to try to sell you on one, if you are that turned off to the idea of a touch screen then that's cool! But your ravenous bashing of it is... strange to say the least :)

Quoting the review, with which I agree:

"Simulated mouselook control is a whole different creature from a simulated analog stick, and the fake analog setup in Mario 64 is pretty awful. The problem is that the largely frictionless screen doesn't offer any form of tactile feedback; the N64's stick had a certain amount of resistance and automatically re-centered, but you get neither of those with the touch-screen control...You can expect to hear this complaint in countless future DS reviews, so get used to it now."


So because someone who is "bright" is waiting for a bigger screen that means what? I'm too stupid to know when a screen is too small and I'm ruining my eyes? I am also 29 and suffered no eyestrain, not on the magnitude the reviewer's talking about. I too am looking forward to the PSP and I think it's screen looks fantastic. I imagine if you stared at either screen long enough you'd get eyestrain. Reading a book will do that too.

I mentioned ianoid's intellect in passing, because I'm always pleased to see someone with brains in these forums.

I'm glad you have no issues with the DS screen, but what Parish experienced will hardly be a unique phenomenon. It's more of a concern for the DS than the GBA SP because the DS is being aimed at an older demographic.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

The release dates are incorrect, most of the mjaor hits (including NSMB) are slated for Q1 still.

IT takes all of half an hour to learn how to use the touch-screen as a controller. IF you don't have that kind of dedication to learn controls, that's the sad part. And besides, the touchscreen minigames in sm64DS are great, don't give me bullshit about how it doesn't use the screen.

It shouldn't require "dedication" to learn the controls of a video game. And good luck trying to sell the mass market on the joys of the touch-screen/thumb-strap combination. The thumb-strap is handicapped by its dorkiness factor alone.

As for the touch-screen mini-games in Super Mario 64 DS (which is a clusterfuck of a title, but anyway), no one's claiming they don't use the touch-screen. Everyone's claiming, correctly, that they're tacked-on tech demos.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Its all fine and dandy that marketing is looking at demographics, but i really dont care about it. I could care less if the DS had a GTA, or a Mortal Kombat, or a Metal Gear. I would like to think games have more depth than having lots of blood or whoa factor. Im sick off all the games that have Blood, guts, and firetrucks insted of good playablitity or great story. I'll raither play some Nintendo title because of funness or story over a game of whoa factor and lots of gore. I raither see the DS success over the PSP, innovation goes all the way and its up to the devolopers and publishers to utilize the innovation insted of Nintendo catching FLACK.

You're a core gamer. Nintendo isn't trying to sell the DS to you. It's trying to sell the DS to the same mass market of teenagers and grown-ups that Sony is targeting with the PSP. That's one of the reasons why Super Mario 64 DS is a poor choice for a DS killer app; Mario is a children's franchise.

You may not care if the DS gets a GTA, Mortal Kombat, or Metal Gear, but Nintendo and Sony both care very much.

-- Z.

[kai123]

I have only seen a DS commercial maybe twice. I have now seen the PSP Coke commercial about five times. Has anyone else seen the ad?

[thegreatescape]

IT takes all of half an hour to learn how to use the touch-screen as a controller. IF you don't have that kind of dedication to learn controls, that's the sad part.

It shouldn't require "dedication" to learn the controls of a video game.


Apologies for abridging the quotes, its just that these quotes made me think of the in-store demo units that seem to have made up the majority of nintendo's advertising, and how it probably dissuades a purchase as much as it pursuades. I could very easily picture someone trying out the unit and being frustrated, followed by walking away. I know thats what I did when i tried to get into a game at an ngage demo...

The more i read of the DS the more i get the feeling this wont be the console war it looked like 6 months ago :(

[Push Upstairs]

It shouldn't require "dedication" to learn the controls of a video game.

Exactly.

The best games are ones with controls that are easy to learn.

Sonic 1 & Mario 3 didnt require "dedication" to learn its controls.
Crash Bandicoot and Power Stone 2 had some pretty easy to use controls as well.

Iif the benefit of a portable system is having games that are "easy to pick up and play" then what good are the games, and system, if the control setup takes awhile to learn?

Wouldnt that defeat the purpose of "playing a quick game on the bus"?

[goatdan]

Apologies for abridging the quotes, its just that these quotes made me think of the in-store demo units that seem to have made up the majority of nintendo's advertising, and how it probably dissuades a purchase as much as it pursuades. I could very easily picture someone trying out the unit and being frustrated, followed by walking away. I know thats what I did when i tried to get into a game at an ngage demo...

Ironically, I did the same thing with the NGage. Not like I was interested, but after spending five minutes with one at a GameStop and not making it beyond the "phone" screen, I gave up. I'll probably never actually play one, but that's fine.

I actually was able to walk in and pull up to a DS in-store demo unit and fit right with the flow of it. Perhaps it is from using a PDA? I'm very curious about this -- of the people who bought it, have you also had a PDA before? If so, did the DS seem "natural" to you?

Mind you, that is a horrible way to market a console, especially with this day of high-end PDAs, but I'm wondering if my ease of adjustment was spillover from my PDA.

[soniko_karuto]

i'm not sure, but this thread turned into fanboi wars somewhere between post # 3 and the rest.

I'm too lazy to read. You don't like something, then don't buy it.

You wanna support something? buy it.

[zmweasel]

i'm not sure, but this thread turned into fanboi wars somewhere between post # 3 and the rest.

I'm too lazy to read. You don't like something, then don't buy it.

You wanna support something? buy it.

But not too lazy to add a useless post to what you consider to be a useless thread.

-- Z.

[soniko_karuto]

i'm not sure, but this thread turned into fanboi wars somewhere between post # 3 and the rest.

I'm too lazy to read. You don't like something, then don't buy it.

You wanna support something? buy it.

But not too lazy to add a useless post to what you consider to be a useless thread.

-- Z.

Or to comment one. LOL

[zmweasel]

Or to comment one. LOL

Uh..."Or to comment one"? Wanna try again in English?

-- Z.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nintendo and it's 3rd party publishers have failed to create anything compelling that couldn't be done with a traditional configuration.

With the exception of Feel the Magic...
Which is the wrong sort of game for the market Nintendo really needs to capture. In fact, I don't even think it will capture MY attention, though I certainly will get ahold of it sometime, someday.

The second screen allows for so much in the way of puzzle games and neat little time-wasters...is any of this evident from the launch titles (outside of that one, as you say, which uniformly got a "wtf?" reaction - not terribly positive)? Not really.