The demise of Nintendo is almost upon us!

[Gemini-Phoenix]

This is a continuation of my other thread - Is the games industry getting just a little too crowded? (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58722)


I forsee something going down - And I think it may just be Nintendo this time!


The DS is unnecessary. It is a half-arsed attempt to advance, but doesn't seem to have actually made it...

In one hand, we have the GBA, in the other, the PSP. The DS is neither, but wants to desperately be both. And is failing miserably. Nintendo could have made a replacement for the GBA, but they didn't. They could have made a next gen console to rival the PSP, but they didn't. What we have is just an ugly mess - One which won't last in my eyes.


Until now, Nintendo have virtually ruled the handheld market since atari and Sega pulled out some time ago. Many have tried to take their crown, and many have failed - Until now, and it may just look like they will be mopping up their own blood.

They should have focused their efforts on making either a successor to the GBA or a dedicated next gen console. Not the DS.


And I fear that the new PlayStation and Xbox will finish them off for good too! Especially seeing as how the gaming theatre is getting a little crowded now...


History has taught us that when there are too many consoles - One has to drop out... And seeing as how Nintendo seem to be faltering at the moment... I think the PSP could be the one which deals the final blow to a company already down on it's knees...

[Drexel923]

1. The DS is the next logical step in handheld gaming as far as graphics and power go. If you look at the jump between handheld systems in the past they were always a generation behind (GBC 8-16 bit, GBA 16-32 bit, DS 32-64 bit). If Sony never released the PSP, no one would be complaining about the power of the DS as it follows the trend we were used to. Now granted the PSP is an amazingly powerful system, but if you look at the DS on its own merits (and stop trying to compare each other in every aspect), it's nothing to laugh at.

2. Come back when the PSP actually overtakes the DS in sales. I'm not saying it will or will not happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

3. Can we talk about something new for a change. We are oh so thankful that you brought up the Nintendo is doomed arguement once again. And we are happy that you will soon start a flame war thread between fanboys.

This is in no way saying Nintendo will survive or die, but can we stop trying to predict the future and just enjoy the games while we have them.

[gamegirl79]

Your post is filled with more opinion than fact - do you have numbers and/or facts to back up your claim that "the demise of Nintendo is upon us"?

It's pretty obvious that you're not a DS fan, and that's completely fine. But just because you doesn't like it doesn't mean that it will fail and subsequently cause the entire downfall of Nintendo.

I'm actually kind of glad to see that the DS isn't trying to be a clone of the PSP. Variety is good and it's still a little to early to say the DS is dead. Only time will tell...

[Avatard]

Oh please, I bet people said the same thing when Virtual Boy hit the market. And I think the general population would agree NDS>VB. I enjoy me NDS, its an oddity for sure, but I like it, its not run-of-the-mill system filled with the latest greatest ZOMG processor that can make tons of polygons fly at me, it doesn't need to be. Now if only they would get some good games to the market, thats their biggest downfall. And the fact that it isn't a true IP device. Despite its weaknesses I own one and I plan on buying the new game boy advance 2 when it comes out.

Saying Nintendo will go down cause of the DS is like saying Coca-Cola will go down cause they made Coke 2, or cause Pepsi came out with a new Sprite clone. Maybe one day they will take the road of Sega, but that day is not today or the next 5 years.

That said, the market is indeed flooded with hardware, but its also saturated with consumers. Can it support 3 systems along with their handhelds? Thats anyones guess. We will have to see. Personally I think it can, I don't know many people wth just one of the XBox/GCN/PS2 combos.

Don't we have a billion other threads like this already? Its getting tiresome.

[anagrama]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

[fishsandwich]

ZZZ (x1000 but removed /flack)

<burps, farts, then starts to snore again>

-_-

[captain nintendo]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:


I agree..... Keep your opinions to yourself unless they have

have hard facts behind them. I am not saying this because I

have nintendo in my user name either. Have any hard facts ? then post them.

[Xantan the Foul]

Yeah... I don't see Nintendo going away anytime soon.

Though I honestly see Sony dominating the next console generation, it's too hard to tell for sure yet how anybody is going to do.

[calthaer]

Doesn't Nintendo have a few billion dollars in the bank still? What is all this nonsense?

To be quite honest, they will only ever "lose" when they lose money. As long as they make enough to cover R&D and production for games + hardware and then make a profit on top of that, they will not go out of the business - regardless of how big or small their market share is. People seem to forget that it's entirely possible for a company to be profitable with even a lesser share of the market, if they play their cards right.

Conversely, it is also possible to LOSE money while controlling the majority of the market.

So, like everyone else, I ask - where's the proof that Nintendo is losing money? I don't see their stock taking any significant dives.

[Nez]

Bah Nintendo will never get out of the game. They're not trying to hard to be number one they just want to be like any rational corp and make tons of freaking money. I'm shure all the current systems are giving Nintendo plenty of cash for each unit sold, unlike say the xbox or the PSP.

Nintendo will never go away, not as long as I' am around I'm shure.

[Teo]

I can use the ds as a brick, if someone talks smack on it I throw it said persons head and most likely it still works perfectly. LOL

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Had the DS actually been developed as a true next gen machine (Like the PSP) then it would have been a lot better I feel.

Instead, we have something with two tiny screens and a slot for old games (But not old-old games)


The PSP is the next evolution in handheld gaming in my eyes. And no way can Nintendo keep up with that unless they pull some kind of rabbit out of their hat fairly soon.


Ok - The DS is powerful enough to be impressive, but they are just falling back into the hole they have been trying to climb out of all thse years...


The only way forward for Nintendo now is to come up with something aimed more at adults. Kids are quite content playing games which don't look too good, but at the end of the day, it's the older generation they should be looking towards seeing as they are the ones who will be buying these products.

The GameBoy will live on, but the PSP will kill the DS off forcing Nintendo to either give up or go back to the drawing board...

[Cmosfm]

You've been here for a long time man, haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this. All you're doing is drawing in the flames.

And this topic has been discussed 5 MILLION times before, use the search function and bump an old one if you feel the need to get "fanboy" on us.

I opt for this topic to be locked.

[Avatard]

They stated all along an new rabit is already in the hat, and has been for some time. They have always billed the DS as a "third pillar". Why do people always translate "third" as "main"? Why do people think its equivalent to Square's "Final Fantasy". Its experimental, like the VB, but this time they didn't fall on their face, or ruin eye sight. LOL

I don't know what kids you've seen, but every little kid I've met are impressed by latest greatest graphics and fads, reguardless of gameplay. Thats why all these games like the incredibles, and the hulk even get sold.

Bah, I'm replying to a troll. I think I'm the loser.

[Kamino]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

[GrayFox]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

Ditto, and +1

:)

[mattmcgrath25]

<gauntlet narrator> "Someone fed the troll" </gauntlet narrator>

[Avatard]

Silly me, thinking this post was even serious LOL

{void main()
int postnum;
bool dumbtopic;}

postnum ++;
dumbtopic = 1;
end;

[sabre2922]

Ill go ahead with a quick reply.

Nintendo isnt going anywhere YET we will see after the first few years of Revolution.

I luv Nintendo but we all know and see what is happening with the big N lately wether some of us here want to admit it or not. ;)

Everywhere I go I see Gamecubes collecting dust and PS2s constantly sold out and Xboxs sell at a decent rate.
It is VERY difficult to find Gamecube games used OR new in my area it just isnt popular here at all.
I mean all you have to do is go to Gamefaqs and look at the planned release list to see that the GC is nearing its end.
There are fewer and fewer mutli-ports every month that are released on Gamecube PS2 and Xbox seems to be the norm for the majority of game publishers and developers.


I hate to see all these things happening to Nintendo but its THERE right in front of everyones eyes no matter how devoted you may be to the big N and they only have themselves to blame for most of the lack of third party support.
If they do have all this hard cash in the bank (wich im sure they do at least for now) then why didnt they go to developers and publishers like Rockstar and break out the $$$$ to get games like GTA3,Vice City or even SA ported over to the cube? or any other popular franchises that arent owned by Sony or Microsoft?

Hey MONEY TALKS man and Nintendo has been alienating themselves for years now. We all know this started with the N64 and has only gotten worse since wether it was the decision to stay with cartridge with the 64 or go with mini-DVD on the Gamecube you could also point to the fact that they dont go out of their way to appease or attract 3rd party publishers on a regular basis.

The writing is on the wall and if Nintendo doesnt change their buisness practices and alienating ways they will SOMEDAY travel the road that SEGA built and will be forced to become a 3rd party developer.

[Ernster]

Nintendo make the most profit on videogames so there not going anywhere in alteast 15 years.

As far as DS goes, its an awesome handheld and will have some of the greatest games of all time once its run its course, just like the PSP will. Its a waste of time comparing them.

[rbudrick]

Shit, I thought somebody was posting some kind of new news article. Don't piss me off by making me jump like that! LOL

-Rob

[Nez]

Damn it why do I even respond to Phoenixs' threds. Youd think I'd learn by now.

[starchildskiss78]

I agree with a lot of the posts so far. The bottom line is that Nintendo has had a solid reputation through the years with coming up with some innovative things. You also must remember that Nintendo, like any other corporation, is out to make money. Anyone who says differently is fooling themselves. Personally I liked the fact that the Nintendo 64 is cartridge based. I've purchased used games before from the usual places (Game Stop, EB Games) and the disc based ones usually look like someone wiped their ass with them. At least with a cartridge I usually don't have to worry about severe issues like that. My only gripe is taking the top label off their cartridges. Makes it MUCH harder to store the things and know what the hell you've got! I've put my two cents in...I'm done. :)

Oh....btw...don't feed the fanboys!

[Avatard]

http://images.urbandictionary.com/view/large/4228.jpg

[jslithy]

Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.

[dreams]

You've been here for a long time man, haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this. All you're doing is drawing in the flames.

And this topic has been discussed 5 MILLION times before, use the search function and bump an old one if you feel the need to get "fanboy" on us.

I opt for this topic to be locked.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!

[Kamino]

Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.
Ok, enlighten me as to what the most anticipated game of 2005 is.

[Flack]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

Ditto, and +1

:)

-50 meseta for blatant +1'ing.

[Cobra Commander]

Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.
Ok, enlighten me as to what the most anticipated game of 2005 is.
The Legend of Zelda? Maybe?? I know it is for me.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

No, this isn't any sort of a troll. It is a continuation of my other thread, but I decided to cut the other one down as this was more specifically directed at Nintendo and to make it a little easier to read.


I would imagine Zelda is probably the most anticipated game of 2005...

[TheRedEye]

Show us your stock analyst credentials or shut the fuck up. You know nothing.

[Kamino]

Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.
Ok, enlighten me as to what the most anticipated game of 2005 is.
The Legend of Zelda? Maybe?? I know it is for me.
Yeah, for me, the most anticipated game of 05 is already out. Doom 3 xbox. GTA PSP is a close 2nd, and soon to come.
Admittedly, I'm barely on top of this year's releases, because I was so concentrated on building a retrocollection in 2004. (tripled to quadrupled it in a year. ) I may have to get back into the loop soon...but fortunately for me, theres plenty of cheap used current generation crap to buy ;)

[Avatard]

Wow, you must be really dissapointed this year. LOL

[ubersaurus]

The only way forward for Nintendo now is to come up with something aimed more at adults. Kids are quite content playing games which don't look too good, but at the end of the day, it's the older generation they should be looking towards seeing as they are the ones who will be buying these products.


Dude, Nintendo could have a lineup of Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear Solid, and fucking MANHUNT, and people would still claim they're "kiddy".

I've met many college students and women who love their current lineup, and I don't know too many adults who give a shit if has Mario jumping around or the Master Chief.

[Avatard]

Yea, that mantra about kiddy games gets old. Come up with something on your own.

[rpepper9]

I love "kiddie games" and I'm almost 30!

[GrayFox]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

Ditto, and +1

:)

-50 meseta for blatant +1'ing.

Kinda joking and all, but hey, there goes all my meseta! Huzzah!

I guess I have to type out that he's a troll and all, instead of just ditto-ing the good Kamino.

The journey for more meseta continues ;)

[lendelin]

If Sony never released the PSP, no one would be complaining about the power of the DS as it follows the trend we were used to.

That is exactly the problem for N. Sony DID release the PSP.

This is like saying CNN would do much better and no-one would complain about it if FoxNews weren't around.

[Captain Wrong]

Here, I'll save everyone the trouble of reading this thread or of even responding in it.

Step 1:
Insert completely baseless and provocative speculation. The more outlandish the merrier.


Step 2:
Create overly emotional and equally provocative rebuttal. Take it personally and don't skimp on the word count!


Step 3:
Repeat steps 1 & 2 over open flames until thread reaches a frothy boil.

Step 4:
Lock thread.

Step 5:
Wait a few days and start process again.

[GarrettCRW]

Step 4:
Lock thread.

You forgot to do step 4. ;)

[goatdan]

The DS is not an upgrade... until the Palm software comes out for it. When that happens, it all makes sense as to exactly what Nintendo was trying to do -- corner a market that has always had high-end stuff with low power. My Pocket PC cost $600.00 not too long ago and drains its battery when playing NES games in about forty minutes. Had the DS been released with the Palm OS on it like Nintendo originally said, it would've KICKED Dell's ass. Not just would it be more useful as a Pocket PC, but it would've been so much more powerful and cheaper.

Oh yes, but the PSP is supposed to be Nintendo's main competitor on that front. You know, as much as it is sort of (since the DS is also another game system, after all), it isn't if Nintendo ever brings out the Palm OS.

On top of that, Nintendo has tons of money in the bank. If they started losing money on any of their endeavors, they would drop them like a bad habit -- didn't _exactly_ that happen with the Virtual Boy? Nintendo didn't stick around with it trying to prove it was incredible. They cut their losses. If Nintendo was in such serious jeopardy because the DS was doing so badly for them, they would drop it. As it stands, it has sold millions of consoles, has made Nintendo tons of money and has a lot of interesting software coming out for it soon. Hardly a failure.

So yes, I fed the troll and I'm sorry... but I am really sick of listening to uninformed people take shots at the DS because of some perceived PSP "success." The PSP is successful (although not as successful as Sony expected it to be) but it hasn't wiped the DS off the face of the planet. And it won't, unless Nintendo decides it isn't worth it to them to keep it on the market.

[Captain Wrong]

Step 4:
Lock thread.

You forgot to do step 4. ;)

If this was Off Topic, I would have.

I swear these threads are like watching train wrecks happen.

[GarrettCRW]

Step 4:
Lock thread.

You forgot to do step 4. ;)

If this was Off Topic, I would have.

I swear these threads are like watching train wrecks happen.

Maybe you guys should start moving these threads to the Pub. ;)

[Avatard]

Oh, I can derail it, don't you worry about that....

So, who here are cheetos fans?

[THATinkjar]

I always consider the DS an interim product from Nintendo to take whatever market it could away from the PSP. I think Nintendo had intended for their next handheld to be THE successor to the GBA. They've already made it clear they will be doing the GBA 2 soon enough. I suspect we will see that next year.

Nintendo can get stronger, but they need to stop relying on such few key titles. As much as I always want a mario game on each platform, I don't want them to keep relying on them.

[Zubiac666]

OmGZzZ!!111!!!Eleven!!11!!Elf!
ThA dS eEEz thA DooOmdD
aNd tHa PeeSp is daH aLL/\/\1GhTy !!111!!
x_x

Another week another "nintendo goes down"-thread
*yawns*

[Nature Boy]

... haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this.

If this was actually true there would be all of zero extra posts in here. You know, like there are for the threads that people *actually* don't like...

Nintendo *is* doomed. I love my DS, but I wish I had a PSP instead. Sony knows how to market it self about a zillion times better than Nintendo ever will.

[LAGO]

[quote="Nature Boy" Sony knows how to market it self about a zillion times better than Nintendo ever will.[/quote]

that's not entirely true.

[Algol]

DS is going down, Nintendo is doomed, Sony owns our souls, We must sacrifice our firstborn to Ken Kuratagi...

Whatever. Can we never have one of these threads again? :sob:

[Algol]

Double post. :monkey:

[xaer0knight]

I don't know what kids you've seen, but every little kid I've met are impressed by latest greatest graphics and fads, reguardless of gameplay. Thats why all these games like the incredibles, and the hulk even get sold.

Bah, I'm replying to a troll. I think I'm the loser.



Dude, Nintendo could have a lineup of Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear Solid, and fucking MANHUNT, and people would still claim they're "kiddy".

I've met many college students and women who love their current lineup, and I don't know too many adults who give a shit if has Mario jumping around or the Master Chief.

I would agree +a million. kids especially like the Hype. Because one "cool" person says that the PS2 or any system is "cool" they will flock to be one of the "Cool ones" (mostly the youner gen, High and Middle Schools). It happen with the NES, Genesis, and TurboGrafx Days and its even bigger now.

[Mitch_Naz]

This thread is none sense, call me a fanboy right away but lets look at the facts from a general point of view. First, Nintendo is following the path as it SHOULD in terms of generation (GBC 8-16,GBA 32,DS 64) in the handheld division. But the PSP comes out with around 128 bit and skips an entire gen and adds everything it can possible can to kill nintendos portable market (If it were to bring a portable playstation ONE that would be a different story)- and you still think nintendo is dumb and their going under. If nintendo were to release a high end Game boy with graphics as the PSP, you would probably think nintendo is just trying to save themselves and still bash it for doing everything it can to save itself. These kind of threads or getting old, lets just all wait for the software and see whom will win this war.

Second, stop hating on the DS for it not being a PSP;
Its like Nintendo just launched the N64 and Sony came out of no where with the PS2 (dvds ? umds ?) - its clear whos got better hardware but what about the software, as of now the psp got the upper hand. But isnt it intresting how the DS "N64" is still holding its own against something like the PSP "PS2" ???

Finally, dont get me wrong, I like the PSP - im getting one next week **hopefully**

[YoshiM]

I'll feed the troll....till it bursts...mwahahahahaa!

Anyway, the parent obviously has a liking for the PSP thanks to the positive description they gave. The DS, as someone mentioned, is third pillar. Even though I think it's a conspiracy to see how well it takes off and then crowning it the next GameBoy, we have to go with what the big N says. Besides, it's still pretty dang new so don't discount it yet. And no I don't have one, so I'm not speaking out of bias.

As for the "kiddy" image...I think people who label Nintendo as such should just grow up. I have yet to find someone who can give me an honest and decent description on what makes a system "kiddy" or not. When *I* think kiddy, I think games only 7 year-olds and younger can handle. Dora the Explorer, Sesame Street, etc....that's kiddy as it's geared toward that age. Nintendo's games, while containing cartoon characters, are geared toward everyone, kinda like an episode of Bugs Bunny which knows no age.

[lendelin]

As for the "kiddy" image...I think people who label Nintendo as such should just grow up. I have yet to find someone who can give me an honest and decent description on what makes a system "kiddy" or not. When *I* think kiddy, I think games only 7 year-olds and younger can handle. Dora the Explorer, Sesame Street, etc....that's kiddy as it's geared toward that age. Nintendo's games, while containing cartoon characters, are geared toward everyone, kinda like an episode of Bugs Bunny which knows no age.

Kiddy image or not, deserved or undeserved, N is in trouble, in big trouble. The GC goes very slowly the road of third party support of the N64; in the last DP Wire there were more than ten releases listed for the PS2 and Xbox, one (ONE!) for the GC. Looking at release lists in the last year, it gets slowly worse and worse. Sales figures for games, third party support, hardware sales, harsh economic facts tell us all one thing.The image problem is there, no matter as a result of the software or hardware sales or the cycle of both.

The DS lost already the race before it really began. I said it back then, and I say it again, the dual screen -- sold as "innovation" - - was a desperate reaction of N which realized that they cannot compete with the PSP. They looked for another market within the game industry, not for the traditional handheld market. Less power sold by PR as emphasizing gameplay and innovation mean in reality less sales. Gameplay and innovation is not restricted to the underpowered systems, they will come automatically to the most established hardware, and in doubt the more powerful system will win.

In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N. Sony 'matured' the handheld games which means more mature gamers will flock to the PSP; they will expand the demographics of gamers; a good portion will be the so far non-handheld gamers, Sony will win over new customers. The marketshare won't be a zero-sum game, but it will come at the cost of N who will loose a good portion of handheld-gamers.

All the hints given in interviews by Iwata and people from NOA about the "Revolution" indicate a very similar strategy. No competition for Sony and MS anymore, a less powerful system, innovation and gameplay comes first, we want to appeal to the hardcore gamers AND non-gamers. (if they manage that, they will be on the level of Aristotle.

It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

[Kilik Kurosawa]

finally!!! i was waiting for confirmation Nintendo was doomed before i started collecting GC titles x_x

[lendelin]

Nintendo make the most profit on videogames so there not going anywhere in alteast 15 years.

Maybe on planet Saturn, not on planet Earth.


As far as DS goes, its an awesome handheld and will have some of the greatest games of all time once its run its course, just like the PSP will. Its a waste of time comparing them.

Consumers already compare them. Not a lot of them own two handhelds...and even if they do, they buy one handhead much later than the first one; which means, you enter the cycle of hardware sold and games made for the system; not good for the 'second' system.

[Graham Mitchell]

WORDS ABOUT NINTENDO GETTING OUT OF THE MAINSTREAM GAMING MARKET.
Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

Why is that sad? Some great, real innovation could come out of it.

We've been having this great conversation in the Off-Topic area about punk rock. Punk, as a movement started in the late 70s because people were tired of the big money, low-substance music that was being overproduced and crammed down people's throats. Most people, who weren't really die hard music fans, were still going for Yes and the Eagles, but other people wanted something more, something that came from the heart. So they started making their OWN music, and saying to hell with how much money they had behind it, or how polished it sounded. It ended up changing the world of music entirely for the better.

If Nintendo drops out of the mainstream market, which is saturated with overly-violent, low-innovation first person shooters and GTA clones, maybe we'll get something DIFFERENT for once. Maybe we'll get something BETTER. Maybe all the high-end technology is taking too much of developers time and effort to deal with coming up from anything new, and that's why we now have sequel after mindless sequel, and the games never get any better (assuming their predecessors were any good in the first place).

Personally, I want something new from the ground up, and I already feel that the DS is giving it to me. Even if Yoshi's Touch and Go is really just Gumshoe revisited, bear in mind that Gumshoe hasn't been revisited for 20 years, and DESERVES to be expanded upon and fully realized. What the hell am I gonna get with a PSP? The same old console games that I'm dissatisfied with? What are they gonna cram on those 1.8 gigabit discs? More of the stupid CG that's ruined gaming to begin with? More hacky-BS voice acting?

I may sound like a fanboy here, but I actually think Sony has the best of the 128-bit consoles. However, I really do see the potential for something truly new and interesting coming from the big N in a couple years. And penis-sizing over system specifications isn't going to change my mind with regards to this issue. The DS, by design and not by processing capabilities, does stuff that the PSP doesn't, and I applaud Nintendo for stepping away from all the hype and nonsense.

Thanks for reading my opinion. Flame away.

[Push Upstairs]

First i must say i am starting to dislike these "NINTENDO IS DOOMED" threads as well.

And now for something other than that nonsense.



I don't really understand why people applaud the DS and its palm accessories, saying they are happy it can do so much more than play games, yet sit and lament other game systems for offering something else "extra".

[ozyr]

You've been here for a long time man, haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this. All you're doing is drawing in the flames.

And this topic has been discussed 5 MILLION times before, use the search function and bump an old one if you feel the need to get "fanboy" on us.

I opt for this topic to be locked.

I totally agree here. THis has been done and done and done. Give it a break. There are other topics to discuss... :hmm:

[kainemaxwell]

How many times we gotta beat this topic to death?

[badinsults]

Sony and Microsoft are going to die because I said they would.


Yes, original poster, that is what you said, with just a few more words. I still find it puzzling how people suck the nipple of a particular game company.

[ozyr]

They are all going to die, and the Phantom system will take over! LOL

Time to lock this darn thing into a dark corner of DP!

[XxMe2NiKxX]

Nintendo currently has the most profitable console division of the three primary developers. I see no end in sight. Nintendo is free to struggle with lacking third-party support for as long as they want, because they'll keep on making money and that's not going to change for a long time.

Legend of Zelda currently the most wanted game. That game is going to sell like a bitch when it comes out, and will probably sell some gamecube's with it.

[CartCollector]

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050404.jpg
Bad fanbaby.
EDIT: Oh yeah, copyright VGCats.com. (http://www.vgcats.com) Have to put credit where it's due.

[YoshiM]

Kiddy image or not, deserved or undeserved, N is in trouble, in big trouble. The GC goes very slowly the road of third party support of the N64; in the last DP Wire there were more than ten releases listed for the PS2 and Xbox, one (ONE!) for the GC. Looking at release lists in the last year, it gets slowly worse and worse. Sales figures for games, third party support, hardware sales, harsh economic facts tell us all one thing.The image problem is there, no matter as a result of the software or hardware sales or the cycle of both.

I'm not saying Nintendo doesn't have issues, I'm just saying that the "kiddy" label is blatantly incorrect. If anything the real taint it has is that people tend to buy first and maybe second party titles over third party. Of course I'm not including the technical issues (like the smaller storage medium).


The DS lost already the race before it really began. I said it back then, and I say it again, the dual screen -- sold as "innovation" - - was a desperate reaction of N which realized that they cannot compete with the PSP. They looked for another market within the game industry, not for the traditional handheld market. Less power sold by PR as emphasizing gameplay and innovation mean in reality less sales. Gameplay and innovation is not restricted to the underpowered systems, they will come automatically to the most established hardware, and in doubt the more powerful system will win.

Historically, how has this stopped Nintendo? We had Game Gear, Atari Lynx and the NEC TurboExpress when Nintendo was peddlin' the green screen. Who won? Later on we get systems like the NGPC and Nintendo didn't flinch. Granted any game system with the name "Sony" and "Playstation" imprinted on it gets the masses in a slobbering mess of ecstacy but let's break it down a bit. Nintendo's biggest clinchers are the franchise titles and the price point. $150 and access to one's existing GBA library (if they have one) and a decent amount of play time I think is an easier pill to swallow for the masses.


In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N. Sony 'matured' the handheld games which means more mature gamers will flock to the PSP; they will expand the demographics of gamers; a good portion will be the so far non-handheld gamers, Sony will win over new customers. The marketshare won't be a zero-sum game, but it will come at the cost of N who will loose a good portion of handheld-gamers.

Lose handheld gamers? Only if Nintendo doesn't deliver the software (which they kinda tripped up on early). The PSP right now feels more like an investment due to the high cost of entry as a handheld compared to the nominal price of a DS. Plus we have to remember a lot of people consider their handheld game system their secondary source of video game entertainment. From what I've seen in conversations throughout the web I've seen statements that say something like "Why would I spend $250 on a handheld?" However if Sony pushes the fact that the PSP is a multimedia machine (wow, shades of 3DO) and if the UMD (or whatever) movies start to take off (I guess some companies are bundling them in DVDs) and people actually buy into that, we might see some scales tipping. Though why anyone would buy UMDs when for less money they could get a portable DVD player with a bigger LCD screen and be able to use their existing library is beyond me.

As for non-handheld gamers: what is the PSP going to offer that the GBA hasn't to change their minds? The biggest complaint (which I shared for a while until I got an SP myself) was "why play on a small screen when I can play games on a TV?" For a person who wasn't on the go or didn't have a lot of downtime away from home the idea of a portable game system didn't appeal. I can't see how this crowd would be swayed.



All the hints given in interviews by Iwata and people from NOA about the "Revolution" indicate a very similar strategy. No competition for Sony and MS anymore, a less powerful system, innovation and gameplay comes first, we want to appeal to the hardcore gamers AND non-gamers. (if they manage that, they will be on the level of Aristotle.

It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

Using the computer industry as an example, we've seen Apple continue to survive with hardly any wide retail availability. They are a niche. Many graphic artists and musicians swear by Apple products. If Apple can survive in a world of sub $200 computers, why can't Nintendo survive in a world dominated by Sony with Microsoft behind them (US wise, not necessarily globally)? Times are a-changin', so why can't the video game industry?

[felix]

im not going to argue or continue this endless flamewar, but I will throw in my 2 cents.

Nintendo has the poster-boys of videogames.. Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda... everybody knows who they are. My girlfriend thinks that every videogame has Mario in it.. I mean, who here hasnt had a girlfriend who wanted to "play mario" on your ps2 or sega master system?

As long as they have that, they will stay in the business. In fact, I think that if Nintendo pulls out all the stops and makes a system as great as say the SNES with games to match (lets just say another GREAT mario game and a new Zelda that gets back to the basics instead of trys to re-invent rpg gaming) then Sony and Microsoft have their work cut out for them.

[goatdan]

In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N.

I'm curious, how are you basing the 50/50 split? If you're saying that within this year, the DS and PSP will sell about equal numbers, okay... but then your argument about how Nintendo can't get anything right isn't so solid, as that sounds like a pretty solid sales rate. If you mean that it will be 50/50 with the GBA and DS vs the PSP, then I still might believe it... but if you think that the PSP will have as many installed users as the GBA market currently does by the end of the year, I think you're out of your mind.

Besides that...


Sony 'matured' the handheld games which means more mature gamers will flock to the PSP; they will expand the demographics of gamers; a good portion will be the so far non-handheld gamers, Sony will win over new customers. The marketshare won't be a zero-sum game, but it will come at the cost of N who will loose a good portion of handheld-gamers.

So you're saying that the people who will buy the PSP are "mature gamers" who are "so far non-handheld gamers." If that's the fact, then why is Nintendo in trouble? If there was a room of 50 people and Nintendo sold DSes to 25 but the other 25 wouldn't have bought a DS no matter what, if 20 of those people buy a PSP, then Nintendo isn't losing market share.

Yes, the PSP could cut into their market share, but if it expands the market a lot, it could be a benefit for Nintendo's next round of software. I for one am not a handheld gamer. The newest handheld I own is a Game Boy Color, which I just picked up two months ago. Maybe if I end up with a PSP though, I'll love it and be more open to the next system from Nintendo.


It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

There is only one problem with your argument -- that is that the "traditional" market simply isn't there any more. The "traditional" consoles of the current crop were the Dreamcast and the GameCube. The Dreamcast went the way of the dodo thanks to poor management and design on Sega's part. The GameCube hasn't done so hot because it simply hasn't had many high-profile games released for it.

The non-traditional systems are the PS2 and the Xbox for combining video games with other things and making it work. The PS2 is also a DVD player, which greatly boosted its sales in Japan when it was released. The Xbox wants to do a bit of everything, and hell... that's why I bought an Xbox. Non-traditional systems are what is currently winning, and Nintendo has decided to go for "innovation" in the revolution, which may end up being way too far off the non-traditional path or may put them in a great place.


I don't really understand why people applaud the DS and its palm accessories, saying they are happy it can do so much more than play games, yet sit and lament other game systems for offering something else "extra".

I don't know who is applauding the DS's Palm accessories, because it doesn't have any of that yet. It was made with the idea of having Palm stuff on it, but we have yet to see any of that, supposedly because Nintendo is worried people could run Nintendo emulators on the DS. Nintendo needs to release a full Palm OS for the DS and I will be the first one to applaud them for releasing a product for $150 that is easily better than ones that people pay $500+ for. Overnight, they'll cannibalize the PDA market for themselves, which is a usually non-traditional market.

But Nintendo doesn't have that stuff yet. And every day they don't have it is another day that it is really stupid they didn't build that stuff in from the beginning.

And I don't think too many people are complaining that other game systems have "extra" features. I think that the MP3 playing capability of the PSP is a really good idea for instance. I think that people have a right to complain about stupid stuff though that doesn't work -- the UMD movies for $25.00 when you can't play them on anything but a PSP is pretty strange. Why people would want to use them beyond DVDs is beyond me. But if it was included for free, there is no harm in it too me.

So... Nintendo has made errors... a lot of them. But they aren't out of the game yet. They are just trying to do things a little differently. When they start releasing a consoles that only lose money, that's when I'll start worrying. Until then, they have three consoles out that make them a lot of money and they move enough products to profit. I think they're doing fine, and bringing out the coffin is a little premature.

[sabre2922]

Umm I just have to reply to Goatdans comment on the Dreamcasts design? what the? O_O

The DC was and still is one of the most easy to develop for Home consoles ever made. It had a great design as far as hardware AND appearance.
Sega did not want to make another Saturn that had a dual CPU set up that made it difficult for developers to tap its full potential even Segas own in house development teams never touched upon it until the last year of its existence with games like Panzer Dragoon Saga.

I do agree that Sega had terrible marketing for the DC of course that goes to the fact that they were already in the red when the DC was released.

[goatdan]

Umm I just have to reply to Goatdans comment on the Dreamcasts design? what the? O_O

Like it or not, the fact is that the Dreamcast was a "traditional" console that was made to only play games. (Music CD playback doesn't count.) At a time when consumers wanted their game system to do more and more, Sega delivered a game system that only did one thing -- play games. Had the Dreamcast played DVDs, I would bet that it would've sold millions more in Japan alone and we wouldn't be sitting here talking about how quickly it died.

The other part of the Dreamcast's design that was really poorly thought through was the MIL-CD backdoor that they left in. An easy-to-program-for console is one thing, an easy-to-pirate-for console is another. While I can't hate them for it, (and Feet of Fury (http://www.goatstore.com/info.php?id=372001), Inhabitants (http://www.goatstore.com/info.php?id=372010) and Maqiupai (http://www.goatstore.com/info.php?id=372020) wouldn't have been possible without it,) the inclusion and explotation of this feature was something that really helped speed the demise of the system.

Don't get me wrong -- I easily love the Dreamcast more than any console ever produced before it and probably any future one. I have an entire US collection. I am well on my way to a complete PAL collection too. And I've published three games so far and have plans for at least another dozen that I'm working on.

I love the Dreamcast, but I can see the problems that it had very clearly... just like I can see the problems that Nintendo has some serious issues on their hands right now. But I also know that Sega was bleeding red ink while Nintendo is far into the green. Different situations...

[lendelin]

Historically, how has this stopped Nintendo? We had Game Gear, Atari Lynx and the NEC TurboExpress when Nintendo was peddlin' the green screen. Who won? Later on we get systems like the NGPC and Nintendo didn't flinch. Granted any game system with the name "Sony" and "Playstation" imprinted on it gets the masses in a slobbering mess of ecstacy but let's break it down a bit. Nintendo's biggest clinchers are the franchise titles and the price point. $150 and access to one's existing GBA library (if they have one) and a decent amount of play time I think is an easier pill to swallow for the masses.

The PSP isn't the Game Gear or Turboexpress. At the launch of the GB until the mid 90s, N was the market leader, a household name, had a positive image, and connections with third party developers, and they got almost automatically the top games. Everything that Sony has today. Sony has the market position, the franchises, the image, the distribution power and infrastructure, and its game division has the big bucks to spend money. The current Sony isn't was Sega or Atari were.

Looking at the lineup of games for both systems, everything spells success for the PSP, and 'niche' for the DS. It is not the hyped multi-media abilities of the PSP which will bring success, it is the software and the power of the system. Ns franchises except for Metroid are more obstacles than big boosters for hardware sales. Show me a kid or teenager who goes nuts over a new Super Mario or Zelda handheld game. Friends of mine have an 11-year-old who has the GB and GBA, and his parents are strict with money. He saves up now for buying a PSP, the DS is not even an issue for him. Neither the price tag nor backward compatibility will save the DS.



Lose handheld gamers? Only if Nintendo doesn't deliver the software (which they kinda tripped up on early)...

That is exactly what happened, and which I predicted before launch. The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS. More importantly, the second screen and missing analog control spells doom for developers who just want to port existing games to the DS. It will hurt the game library big time.


As for non-handheld gamers: what is the PSP going to offer that the GBA hasn't to change their minds? The biggest complaint (which I shared for a while until I got an SP myself) was "why play on a small screen when I can play games on a TV?" For a person who wasn't on the go or didn't have a lot of downtime away from home the idea of a portable game system didn't appeal. I can't see how this crowd would be swayed.

GAMES! Games will be offered to teenage non-handheld gamers in order to change their minds. (I didn't assume that 40 year old businessmen will flock to the PSP, although even an old non-handheld-fart like me is thinking about getting a PSP later on) Mature games, 'cool' looking games with much better graphics, franchises which are top sellers already on the big screen....and upcoming release lists show that the PSP will get its exclusive RPGs too.

The PSP is maturing handheld gaming. The GBA kept handheld gaming in a time lock for a very long time. Handheld gaming was graphically and from a gameplay aspect ten years behind the times. You got literally old SNES games on your GBA, and the successor of the GBA has neither the power nor the games to keep up with the PSP.


Using the computer industry as an example, we've seen Apple continue to survive with hardly any wide retail availability. They are a niche. Many graphic artists and musicians swear by Apple products. If Apple can survive in a world of sub $200 computers, why can't Nintendo survive in a world dominated by Sony with Microsoft behind them (US wise, not necessarily globally)? Times are a-changin', so why can't the video game industry?

The Mac is a niche indeed, and so will be N. But you can struggle and survive in the computer industry, but not in the game industry. The game industry is driven by the sheer number of software sales to a much higher degree than the computer industry. The software/hardware cycle drives the industry. If there is a 'niche'-share of hardware out there in the constantly expanding game industry, it curtails the game offering, reduces your marketshares bit by bit, you won’t make profits with games, and you will face bankruptcy very soon (unless you’re going out of the traditional console business and look for another part of the game industry, which N will do with the next ‘console.’ )

You'll end up with red numbers, and N isn't Sega or MS. Sega could take the red numbers for a long time because it was basically privately sponsored by its president, and MS can take the red numbers over some time because of its financial resources. Even MS will go out of the game business in five years if the next Xbox doesn't increase marketshares and profits.

N opted to go out in this situation as long as they are financially sound. They had one healthy leg, the handheld leg, and they will be limping on this leg too now with the PSP as a competitor.

There is no doubt in my mind that the decision to go out of the traditional console business was made months ago behind closed doors. What we see for months now in interviews by Nintendo officials is the careful PR-preparation to sell this decision euphemistically to the public. For me, there is no other way to interpret statements and business decisions by N.

[GarrettCRW]

The Mac is a niche indeed, and so will be N. But you can struggle and survive in the computer industry, but not in the game industry. The game industry is driven by the sheer number of software sales to a much higher degree than the computer industry.

The video game industry, like most everything in the business world, is driven by profit. And, shock of shocks, Nintendo is still making money. The Game Boy is a veritable cash cow, and the DS has barely even gotten started (and has still outsold the PS, as far as I know). The Gamecube has been produced at a profit for Nintendo for quite some time, as well. The company is doing fine, which is a bit different from Sony, which is surviving largely because of the movie studio and the video game division. (It goes wihout saying that Microsoft, barring a drastic shift in antritrust law, has the resources to do whatever the hell it wants right now.) If Nintendo wants to do something different with the Revolution and DS, then I say more power to them. The game industry sorely needs something new, because its sorely lacking in the innovation department (plus the tons of crap games out there will eventually come back to bite the industry in the ass). Predicting that Nintendo, a healthy corporation (unlike Sega), is going to "die" or fold or drop console development is outright silly.

[lendelin]

In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N.

I'm curious, how are you basing the 50/50 split? If you're saying that within this year, the DS and PSP will sell about equal numbers, okay... but then your argument about how Nintendo can't get anything right isn't so solid, as that sounds like a pretty solid sales rate. If you mean that it will be 50/50 with the GBA and DS vs the PSP, then I still might believe it... but if you think that the PSP will have as many installed users as the GBA market currently does by the end of the year, I think you're out of your mind.

I meant the marketshare between the DS and PSP, excluding of course the GBA. Let's face it, the GBA will be dead soon anyway.


So you're saying that the people who will buy the PSP are "mature gamers" who are "so far non-handheld gamers." If that's the fact, then why is Nintendo in trouble? If there was a room of 50 people and Nintendo sold DSes to 25 but the other 25 wouldn't have bought a DS no matter what, if 20 of those people buy a PSP, then Nintendo isn't losing market share.

Yes, the PSP could cut into their market share, but if it expands the market a lot, it could be a benefit for Nintendo's next round of software. I for one am not a handheld gamer. The newest handheld I own is a Game Boy Color, which I just picked up two months ago. Maybe if I end up with a PSP though, I'll love it and be more open to the next system from Nintendo.

I pointed out that it is not a zero sum game. Expansion on one side doesn't necessarily mean the reduction of the other side in the same amount. Sony will expand the demographics and win some of the so far non-handheld-gamers, BUT it will also severely cut into customers of N as exclusive PSP owners. In other words: Sony wioll get the best of two worlds: the potential of new customers, and the potential to get traditional handheld gamers.


There is only one problem with your argument -- that is that the "traditional" market simply isn't there any more. The "traditional" consoles of the current crop were the Dreamcast and the GameCube. The Dreamcast went the way of the dodo thanks to poor management and design on Sega's part. The GameCube hasn't done so hot because it simply hasn't had many high-profile games released for it.

The non-traditional systems are the PS2 and the Xbox for combining video games with other things and making it work. The PS2 is also a DVD player, which greatly boosted its sales in Japan when it was released. The Xbox wants to do a bit of everything, and hell... that's why I bought an Xbox.

I undertsand your valid reasoning, but it is not a hitting counterargument, rather the misunderstanding about terms. I meant with the traditional console business the three major current console systems, regardless of their hyped multi-media abilities. The latter are anyway not important in the long run for the current systems, it is the software and other things. (the Xbox couldn't catch-up with the PS2 despite its DVD playing abilities and superior hardware specs) In ten years from now, the multi-media aspect will play a big role, that is anyway the long-term goal of Sony and MS.


Non-traditional systems are what is currently winning, and Nintendo has decided to go for "innovation" in the revolution, which may end up being way too far off the non-traditional path or may put them in a great place.


"innovation" with the "Revolution" is PR-talk by N. I believe it when I see it. The Ds according to N is also a revolutionary system full of innovative capabilities, and I was mistrustful about the PR talk back then, and I'm even more mistrustful after we've seen the little revolutionary machine.

I don't know how this new 'console' system will look like and play like and what it will be. It won't be a competitor for the next gen systems for sure according to N officials. Less power, a new control scheme, shorter games, connectivity in a mysterious way, but it won't be a "traditional" console like the PS3 or the next Xbox or the GC.

[SuperNES]

i dunno about the rest of you, but i'm not buying either! my GBASP will have to do. i'm sick of everything going 3D, i really like the GBA better because it just feels like a handheld. (graphics-wise) and if you go around starting "company X is doomed" threads, then you are automatically a 'tard.


I LIKE TACOS! X_x

[suppafly]

I have given much thought to writing this post. I feel like most people are angrey at Nintendo, and might feel frustrated by them.

Just to set the record straight, I used to be a nintendo fan. I loved my nes, my snes, and even a little bit of N64. However they DID take bad decisions (like the media on the n64), started losing 3rd party support and started using their main characters too much (mario 64, mario party, mario golf, mario tennis, mario kart, etc).

That is what made be stop buying their games. Cant anyone see that theyre selling the same game over and over, with slightly improved graphics only?. I dont mean to bash Nintendo and praise Sony, but this is my honest opinion.

thanks

[FurinkanianFrood]

Ernster said:
Nintendo make the most profit on videogames so there not going anywhere in alteast 15 years.


Maybe on planet Saturn, not on planet Earth.


I am on Saturn. Best system ever. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Nintendo is still one of the top game publishers in Japan. Their games still sell well enough that they are NOT IN FINANCIAL TURMOIL.

Nintendo is not dying.

Find a brain, make a brain, bugger off from here, whatever...

Just STOP THIS BULL@#$% NOW.

This is an incredibly dumb topic, and I will keep yelling every time one of these threads appears because this is supposed to be a message board for gamers, not FUD spewing hype monkeys.

I feel like I woke up in one of those troll doll games damnit!

I trash Sony because I hate crappy games.

Where does all this Nintendo hate come from?



That is what made be stop buying their games. Cant anyone see that theyre selling the same game over and over, with slightly improved graphics only?. I dont mean to bash Nintendo and praise Sony, but this is my honest opinion.


1. Better that the games are the same than complete garbage. Who isn't selling the same games.

2. If you ever bother to look not everything is the same. And since when is the PS2 not loaded with nothing but half-hearted rehashes anyway? The interesting stuff on PS2 doesn't even sell!

3. If that's your honest opinion, don't take any of this as a personal attack. It's not meant to be. It's an attack on the general trendmongering that is screwing things up. I used to actually like playstation before I started collecting JP Saturn, PCE, etc. and realized how the DFP had brainwashed everybody into thinking gameplay wasn't going to hell in a handbasket.

4. I am a Sega fanboy, not a Nintendo one BTW, one of the real ones who doesn't buy PS2 rehash @#$%.