Samus referred to as a male in the NES instruction booklet.

[Veepa]

I don't know if this was mentioned before, but I'm going to go on about it anyway.

Now I've never owned the original Metroid until a few days ago(I got a complete copy off of eBay for 0.50). But I do remember hearing about the exciting "twist" at the end, where the main character, Samus, turns out to be a female. And I thought, "Wow, that's great." Because at the time there weren't many female video game heroines. Also I am, and have always been a huge fan of plot twists, similar to those found in Hitchcock films and episodes of the Twilight Zone.. but only if they are well executed.

Anyway, back to my point.. I read through the introduction in the manual.. and much to my despair, it refers to Samus as "he" a few times. Now before you say it, yes, I know they just don't want to spoil the ending where you find out Samus is actually a female... but you can't do it like that! What if you were watching some murder mystery movie, and at the beginning, before the movie starts, it says, "Okay, Joe is not the killer.. at no part through out the film should you suspect Joe to be the killer, because he isn't. Got it?" and then at the end of the film: "Haha, guess what? Joe WAS the killer! You stupid bastard.. Go to hell!"

So do you get my point? They should've just found away around using a pronoun to refer to Samus.

Sigh.. why does it take me so many words to make a simple point.

[Mayhem]

It's because (in the context of the story) people thought Samus was a man in the Metroid world. Well that's what I believe :P

[Milk]

NES instruction manuals are a hot bed of sexual confusion. Remember Birdo?

[pookninja]

i remember nintendo power magazine refering to samus as a him in some of the early nintendo power magazines.so,either samus had a sex change at some point of his/her adventure,or nintendo of america messed up and didnt know that samus was a female,or maybe it was supossed to be a surprise?either way,all the 2d metroid games are great.

[XYXZYZ]

I think they either hired some guy who didn't know about the ending to write the book's text, or they did it on purpose just to make the twist at the end that more radical.

[AB Positive]

NES instruction manuals are a hot bed of sexual confusion. Remember Birdo?

We've been through the Birdo conversation, let's not pick on the poor girl.

-AG

[sharp]

Nintendo just messed up with his sexuality in their own manuals and magazines. I don't care what Samus is man or woman as long as the games are good. You can't see it anyway.

[peeingas]

Samus is also refered to as a he in the "Official Nintendo Players Guide" if I remember correctly

[Aussie2B]

*shrugs* They did it on purpose. They wanted you to think she was a man. Sure, they could've been more vague, but c'mon, who wouldn't automatically assume Samus was a man anyway?

Same goes for Sypha in Castlevania III. I don't own the manual, but I'm almost positive they called her "he" in it. Her sprite is a bit more feminine than Samus's I think, but it was still a surprise for most gamers.

[MegaDrive20XX]

"Dude looks like a lady!"

Here's what I think, during the production of the US version of Metroid, I believe it was a typo. Trying to hurry this title up so it can be released during that Christmas season. I don't think NOA really payed attention to the point of the game or what secrets it had. Just a run down of it's storyline, the characters, and what they thought who or what they were.

Aussie is right about CastleVania 3 as well. Slypha was considered a man, heck listen to the SFX when Slypha is hit. Sounds like an old man.

[rbudrick]

Rumors are that the new Metroid game will reveal Samus actually IS a man...or became one. This has yet to be confirmed.

-Rob

[GarrettCRW]

Apparently the meaning of the phrase "surprise ending" is lost on some of the people here.

[davidbrit2]

According to English language rules, the correct singular pronoun to use in a situation where you don't know the correct gender to specify for whatever reason, is in fact "he". And to make matter worse, Japanese doesn't really have gender-specific pronouns that would have been used in the context of a game manual. So you can blame all of this on translation issues, I'll bet. Heh.

[v1rich]

Gender issues with translation (same as above)

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm surprised ANYBODY can give that translation credit. Nintendo wouldn't have any reason to lie. You remember how shitty a lot of the Nintendo US produced stuff looked back then? Like the merchandise, all made on a budget. Same for the translation; we're lucky to have gotten anything.

[rbudrick]

Guys this wasn't a high profile movie, as someone compared it. It was a 1986 era videogame, and nothing more when they were making it. This instruction manual thingy was done on purpose, not as a translation error, as Nintondos manuals didn't have really any of that. Third parties did, but not first.

The lied so as to not ruin the surprise, plain and simple. There is no more logic to it than that. You could even argue the instruction book's narrator didn't know. So, nyah.

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

Nintendo didn't lie...their translator simply assumed some things. They probably farmed it out to some college student in the area who'd never seen the game, for all we know. But why they'd lie is beyond me - no reason to give conflicting messages. Doesn't matter if your translations sucks, if you know what's going on you can simply avoid using gender pronouns.

As for Sypha...well, it's anybody's guess when Europe is going to stop calling her "Cipher." Hell, as recently as 2002 they still got that wrong.

Actually, we're wondering if there will be more customary mistranslations in the new DS Castlevania. There were a number in Aria of Sorrow. The people they hire to do these aren't geniuses, sadly.

[rbudrick]

As for Sypha...well, it's anybody's guess when Europe is going to stop calling her "Cipher." Hell, as recently as 2002 they still got that wrong.

Well that's pretty interesting. I've never seen the Japanese instructions for CVIII, but it would make sense if the Japanese designers intended for her name to be Cipher. In Japanese, the word cipher would be speller saifa, roughly. Since Sypha turned out to be a woman, and it was a secret, that makes sense, much like a cipher/code/secret.

Hmmmm..... :hmm:

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm quite sure that's an old-fahioned dumb typo.

As for gender switch, take a look:

Nintendo Power's Sypha (http://www.classicgaming.com/castlevania/Images/Scans/CV3/np18sypha.jpg)

The Japanese Manual's Sypha (http://www.classicgaming.com/castlevania/Images/Scans/CV3/ad3-12.jpg) (I've always liked this image.)

Well, I've yet to lay my hands on that NP issue, so I've no idea how Sypha is referred to there, but it sure doesn't look like a woman in that pic.

[Aussie2B]

I highly doubt it was a mistake. I mean, the gender of the main character is pretty basic info. Not only were they going for a surprise ending, but how many lead characters back then were female? Sure, I'm guesses most male gamers around here wouldn't care, but I guarantee you that if they had known beforehand that Samus is female, a lot of young boys and teenagers in those days would've been alienated from the game. They would've assumed it was a game for girls or they'd feel like a sissy playing it. Nintendo was planning for Metroid to be one of their flagship titles to bring the NES into a new generation of titles with better graphics and more depth. I'm sure they wouldn't want to do anything to keep it from becoming the blockbuster title they were hoping it to be.

[Aussie2B]

Everyone was ugly-fied for the US release of Castlevania 3, though. :P It's a part of that whole grizzled look they were going for. I personally like it. I'll take ugly Alucard over pretty-boy Alucard any day, hehe.

I think she still looks like a woman in the Nintendo Power shot, though. Look at her face. Maybe she's just all beat up and calloused from being turned to stone and battling countless enemies in Castlevania. The only thing especially manly about her is the huge hand, but if we want to talk huge hands, I can point out dozens of so-called hot anime girls. :P

[Ed Oscuro]

Budget. Of course it was a mistake.

As for that hand...yeah, huge veins and apparent hair? Ugh, lol.

[evildead2099]

i remember nintendo power magazine refering to samus as a him in some of the early nintendo power magazines.so,either samus had a sex change at some point of his/her adventure,or nintendo of america messed up and didnt know that samus was a female,or maybe it was supossed to be a surprise?either way,all the 2d metroid games are great.

Perhaps Samus is a hermaphrodite.

Perhaps Nintendo adjusted its article according to Samus' regard for himself as a man trapped in a woman's body.

[Aussie2B]

Where do you see hair (besides on her head)? o_O You mean those small black speckles? I never saw them as hair. They look like either details to show her straining her hand immensely or perhaps dirt. Overall, she just looks very dirty, beat up, and worn out.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, those small black lines drawn where you'd put hair on a hand if you did so. Nobody draws sweat like that, and dirt? Nope. More to the point, nobody draws women like that.

[rbudrick]

Just as I suspect, the Japanese CVIII manual names her Saifa. I don't see any reason it wasn't originally intended to be Cipher (like a mystery) when translated.

I'm actually really surprised that there are people here who truly think that Nintendo accidentally called Samus "he" or "him." It is well known that they wanted to keep her gender a surprise, so why on earth would they call her "her" or "she" in the instructions. It seems quite obvious to me that the instruction book was a red herring, and not a mistake.

-Rob

[Aussie2B]

But the question is, if the drawing is supposed to be a man, why the very feminine face? :P

[Ed Oscuro]

Just as I suspect, the Japanese CVIII manual names her Saifa. I don't see any reason it wasn't originally intended to be Cipher (like a mystery) when translated.
Within the time you originally posed this question, I asked the folks over at the CV Dungeon Forum. It's a Japanese-garbled version of Sophia, and Belnades is likely Fernandez.

@ Aussie: It's not really feminine...at all.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Wow, that's sad how many times "Saifa" "Sypha" or what not was changed...

[Aussie2B]

In Star Ocean 3, Sophia's name in katakana is "so-fi-a". There's no reason whatsoever that they'd use "sa-i" if they're trying to get a hard "o" sound. Likewise, why not include the "ee" sound? Even a beginner in katakana wouldn't translate "Saifa" as "Sophia". Sounds like the random guesses of fans with no clue how Japanese works.

And while normally I would say that "Belnades" could be "Fernandez", the katakana is too peculiar. My guess would be that BOTH the "B" and "F" are wrong translations. When they put the marks on the "U" like that, they're nearly always going for a "V". The "su" at the end has no marks either, so that would rule out a "z" sound. To me, I'd say her last name would be "Vernandes/Velnandes".

[Wavelflack]

Nintendo managed to misspell it's own name on page one of the Nintendo Player's Guide, so I'm not surprised they missed something like this.

[SirDrexl]

Anyway, back to my point.. I read through the introduction in the manual.. and much to my despair, it refers to Samus as "he" a few times. Now before you say it, yes, I know they just don't want to spoil the ending where you find out Samus is actually a female... but you can't do it like that! What if you were watching some murder mystery movie, and at the beginning, before the movie starts, it says, "Okay, Joe is not the killer.. at no part through out the film should you suspect Joe to be the killer, because he isn't. Got it?" and then at the end of the film: "Haha, guess what? Joe WAS the killer! You stupid bastard.. Go to hell!"

So do you get my point? They should've just found away around using a pronoun to refer to Samus.

Yeah, it's like when someone on Jerry Springer leaves a lover (of the opposite sex) for someone of the same sex. They'll have a woman on there who is complaining that her man is cheating on her and she wants to confront his new lover, whom she does not know. Jerry intentionally avoids referring to the new lover with the male pronoun because it would spoil the surprise that it's not a woman. He can't just say "let's meet her" and then have a guy walk out. He'll say "let's meet this person."

[Wavelflack]

Alternate analogy: Paul Harvey does not make up a false name for his "rest of the story" subjects. A story that turns out to be about Bill Clinton would have PH referring to him as "Willy", or something along those lines. Not "Jim" or "Sarah", or whatever.


"...and Sarah vowed to never again let people suffer in her presence. And she kept that vow for the rest of her life, on a road that led her all the way to the White House. For Sarah was actually William Jefferson Clinton. And now you know..the rest of the story."

[Emily]

Yeah, those small black lines drawn where you'd put hair on a hand if you did so. Nobody draws sweat like that, and dirt? Nope. More to the point, nobody draws women like that.

...So no one in their right mind would ever draw or portray an unattractive female? :hmm:

Your an idiot :shameful:

[davidbrit2]

i remember nintendo power magazine refering to samus as a him in some of the early nintendo power magazines.so,either samus had a sex change at some point of his/her adventure,or nintendo of america messed up and didnt know that samus was a female,or maybe it was supossed to be a surprise?either way,all the 2d metroid games are great.

Perhaps Samus is a hermaphrodite.

Perhaps Nintendo adjusted its article according to Samus' regard for himself as a man trapped in a woman's body.

I have seen drawings on 4chan that support or at the very least sympathize with your theory. Ed knows what I'm talkin' about. I think.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, those small black lines drawn where you'd put hair on a hand if you did so. Nobody draws sweat like that, and dirt? Nope. More to the point, nobody draws women like that.
...So no one in their right mind would ever draw or portray an unattractive female? :hmm:

Your an idiot :shameful:
There's so many things wrong with that I don't really know where to begin.

First off, the world isn't a paradise where people go out of their way to draw manly looking women, and in a publication aimed at kids, no less. (Combine this with the recent talk of Nintendo's guerrilla war against my generation with gender issues in characters like Birdo and Samus, you'd have to wonder why nobody raised a fuss...oh, of course it's simply that the translations were bad.) It seems reasonable that the NP artist was operating on the assumption that the character was a young wizard in robes. Castlevania wasn't a first-party Nintendo developed game, and they managed to botch Samuses' identity. This isn't ground breaking stuff, here.

Leading into my next point...Sypha didn't look at all like that in the Japanese manual. There'd be no reason to significantly alter the character's appearance.

I'm unimpressed by your childish accusation of my being a chauvunist. Sorry, but being able to see reality doesn't make one wrong-headed - I call things as I see 'em. Frankly, I don't care that much what my video game characters look like just so long as they're not right out of Strip Fighter II LOL If Sypha, as a woman, really looked like that, I'd honestly not be worried about it.

[Frankie23]

i remember nintendo power magazine refering to samus as a him in some of the early nintendo power magazines.so,either samus had a sex change at some point of his/her adventure,or nintendo of america messed up and didnt know that samus was a female,or maybe it was supossed to be a surprise?either way,all the 2d metroid games are great.

Perhaps Samus is a hermaphrodite.

Perhaps Nintendo adjusted its article according to Samus' regard for himself as a man trapped in a woman's body.

Well, a man trapped in a womans body would be a transgender; a hermaphrodite is someone with the genitalia of both genders. Either way though, I think that they probably intentionally used genderless terms to describe Samus in the Japanese manual, to create an air of mystery around the masked bounty hunter, and as has been said earlier in this thread, in English, "he" is the neutral pronoun as well as the masculine, so it was natural to translate as such. Plus, as has also been stated, there's a good chance that the author of the English manual had never played Metroid, or at least hadn't beaten it well enough to see Samus in her lycra glory.

[Daria]

I always figured the person who translated the manaul never actually played the game.

And Ed has a point... in a video game illustration, for an industry where women are notoriously protraited as buxom bimbets, noone's purposely going to draw the heroine with hairy palms.

[rbudrick]

In Star Ocean 3, Sophia's name in katakana is "so-fi-a". There's no reason whatsoever that they'd use "sa-i" if they're trying to get a hard "o" sound. Likewise, why not include the "ee" sound? Even a beginner in katakana wouldn't translate "Saifa" as "Sophia". Sounds like the random guesses of fans with no clue how Japanese works.

And while normally I would say that "Belnades" could be "Fernandez", the katakana is too peculiar. My guess would be that BOTH the "B" and "F" are wrong translations. When they put the marks on the "U" like that, they're nearly always going for a "V". The "su" at the end has no marks either, so that would rule out a "z" sound. To me, I'd say her last name would be "Vernandes/Velnandes".

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

"Vernandes/Velnandes" would hold up better if it was a real name. As it stands, who's to say that the person who came up with the name originally knew what they were doing, either?

[davidbrit2]

http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-chron/scenes/end20.png

This "Simon Belmondo" fellow would like to have a word with the translators.

[rbudrick]

This "Simon Belmondo" fellow would like to have a word with the translators.

The pic doesn't work, but I do remember seeing that in the credits of the first game. the "do" sign in Japanese looks very much like the "to" sign, with a slight variation, so I can see where they made this mistake. But I dunno...they were making little misspelings on purpose in that ending to make a joke about old actors names, so whatever...

-Rob

[davidbrit2]

This "Simon Belmondo" fellow would like to have a word with the translators.

The pic doesn't work, but I do remember seeing that in the credits of the first game. the "do" sign in Japanese looks very much like the "to" sign, with a slight variation, so I can see where they made this mistake. But I dunno...they were making little misspelings on purpose in that ending to make a joke about old actors names, so whatever...

-Rob

Copy and paste the URL. VGMuseum is stupid like that.

And for illustration:
ト - TO
ド - DO

[GarrettCRW]

Um, guys, the "Simon Belmondo" in the US release of Castlevania replaces the player name as entered in the name entry of the FDS original.

And on another note, this thread is making my brain hurt. For one thing, here's CVIII's Japanese cover:

http://www.classicgaming.com/castlevania/Images/Scans/CV3/box-cv3j.jpg

Plus, the handshake when Trevor meets Sypha is different-as if Trevor is going to kiss Sypha's hand. (Thank you, Kurt Kalata.)

As for Metroid, if there was a snafu regarding Samus' gender in the US manual, I'm sure that TJ Rappel (who's been running the Metroid Database for almost a decade, and whom I believe knows Japanese and has the FDS version w/manual) would have blown it open ages ago.

Seriously, even that quack Freud sometimes knew that a fruit is simply a fruit.

[Ed Oscuro]

As for Metroid, if there was a snafu regarding Samus' gender in the US manual
There is a snafu. That's not open for debate.

From pages 7-8 of said manual:

The space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. He is the greatest of all the space hunters ...

What IS open for debate is how relevant a simple translation error (or assumption) is to our Metroid-bereft lives. I'm going to guess "pretty damn useless." It's fun to illuminate (or speculate) how things were (or weren't) done at Nintendo back in the day, but this is beyond crazy.

As for the FDS Metroid, yeah, I've a copy myself, but I don't make any guesses about what I can't read (in this case, can't *get* to, since it's a sealed copy, d'oh).

As for Castlevania/Simon Belmont/Belmondo, you'll notice that there's no reference to Simon Belmont at all in Castlevania, outside of Belmondo in the credits. Not on the box. Not in the manual. Of course Simon's name is ripe for punning, as the similar "Shimon" characters are "Gates of Death" (I believe the whip skeletons in the FDS version of CVII are called this, and they are in Harmony of Dissonance) but that would've been way over the heads of the Konami US crew at the time (that, or they'd just ignore/mistranslate it, like they do today).

[whoisKeel]

I'm gonna have to agree with the original poster, Veepa on this. Sure, it probably was an innocent budget mistake, but still an embarrassing one. A little proofreading goes a long way. It's a bit irrevalent now, but had I actually owned the manual and read it before I knew of her true identity, I would've felt a bit ripped off as well.

They could've simply left the identity of the character ambiguous and pleased everyone.

The entire Metroid franchise has been tainted for eternity...ok perhaps that's a bit drastic... :)

[GarrettCRW]

There is a snafu. That's not open for debate.

No, you're simply refusing to believe that the manual and backstory for Samus (who is, as stated in the Metroid manual, an almost total mystery to the Federation) is intentionally wrong, so as to set up ye ole surprise ending.

Believe me, there are more than a few Japanese-speaking Metroid fans out there, and they would have blown open any news of a mistranslation or altered story eons ago (read: during that huge gap when there was like no news on Metroid at all).

[rayearthknight]

Reminds me of the Boush/Leah character in Return of the Jedi....Everyone (well, Threepio at least) called Leah a "he" ("...because he's holding a thermal detonator!")

[esquire]

... but you can't do it like that! What if you were watching some murder mystery movie, and at the beginning, before the movie starts, it says, "Okay, Joe is not the killer.. at no part through out the film should you suspect Joe to be the killer, because he isn't. Got it?" and then at the end of the film: "Haha, guess what? Joe WAS the killer! You stupid bastard.. Go to hell!"

Apparently you never watched much Scooby-Doo! as a kid. Don't you remember at the end of the cartoon, the gang would catch the thief/crook dressed as the ghost/monster, only to find out that they were wearing a rubber mask of someone else's face? LOL

[Wavelflack]

There is a snafu. That's not open for debate.

No, you're simply refusing to believe that the manual and backstory for Samus (who is, as stated in the Metroid manual, an almost total mystery to the Federation) is intentionally wrong, so as to set up ye ole surprise ending.

Believe me, there are more than a few Japanese-speaking Metroid fans out there, and they would have blown open any news of a mistranslation or altered story eons ago (read: during that huge gap when there was like no news on Metroid at all).

This is fucking idiotic. The point is that Nintendo didn't pay attention to what it was doing in writing the manual. The writer need not beat the game, or even play it. He just needs the general idea of the game, and information about weapons and enemies, etc.
The idea that "he" was intentionally put in the manual to misguide everyone's assumptions and therefore set up the "surprise ending" is not the product of a thinking person. The fact is that at that time (and even now, I'd wager), game players naturally assumed that the hero was male, unless it was specifically shown not to be (Athena. etc.) Ambiguous character? Male. Character in a space suit? Male. Unseen racecar drivers, spaceship pilots, tank crews, etc? Male. "Princess Zelda" with long hair and dress? FEMALE. There is no need to reinforce the natural assumptions EVERYONE makes.

*ring*--"Hello?"
(caller)--"This is Jimmy from Nintendo. Are you playing Metroid right now?"
--"No, but I guess I could be."
(N)--"Well, just remember something.."
--"Yeah?"
(N)--"The next time you play Metroid.."
--"Okay?"
(N)--"No matter what you may already think.."
--"?"
(N)--"Samus is ACTUALLY a man! NOT a woman!"
--"And?"
(N)--"That's just it! Don't you get it?"
--"No, not really. I guess I already figured that, but whatever."


At any rate, if you still want to remain in the little fanworld universe where all contradictions and mistakes are explained away with elaborate attributions (see Star Wars boards), then I'll have to make a final plea to the remaining micron or two of your mind not consumed by stupidity:

When you make a surprise ending, you do it by going against or away from the audience's assumptions. You can either build something up so that the audience thinks they know where it is headed, and then change course, or you can play on the audience's natural assumptions that they bring woth them.
The surprise ending cannot contradict the rest of the work. And the rest of the work cannot contradict the surprise ending. "The Sixth Sense" is an easy example to work from: The surprise ending is enabled because WE (the viewers) are not expecting an entire movie to be based on a dead person's experience and perspective. And it works because it is consistent. You can go back and see how the clues were there all along,but we misinterpreted them based on our natural assumptions. THAT is what makes the surprise ending so entertaining. Not that it is unexpected, but that it allowed us to believe one thing but actually mean another WITHOUT contradicting either belief.

The Sixth Sense does not have text at the beginning that says "Bruce Willis is alive and well all throughout this movie." Why? Because we already would assume so, and (most importantly) because it would not be consistent with the movie.
Go ahead and think of every "surprise ending" you can remember, and see if you can remember a time when the work itself flat out lied to you so as to surprise you later with the "truth".


By your reasoning, we would see surprise endings in every movie and game from here to eternity. All you have to do is lie about the ending. Let me see if I can make some surprise endings work out via manual inserts:

(Combat)--"You and a friend are in command of two completely disarmed tanks that are incapable of firing."

(Super Mario Bros)--"The Mushroom Retainers are a deceptive people. We know that the princess was killed several years ago in a border dispute. This does not prevent the Retainers from claiming that "our princess is in another castle!", but now that you know the truth, you will not be fooled into believeing that the princess is actually alive and in the castle of world 8. You know she is dead and will never appear in the game."

(Zelda)--"..and in the end, you will have to fight Ganon. A wild and wily foe, your only hope of defeating him is by hitting him with bait. A master of disguise, Ganon will conceal the damage done to him by the bait. Do not be fooled! Do not resort to magic swords or silver arrows! These will only anger Ganon, increase his life meter, and waste precious bait attacking time."

[Cirrus]

(Zelda)--"..and in the end, you will have to fight Ganon. A wild and wily foe, your only hope of defeating him is by hitting him with bait. A master of disguise, Ganon will conceal the damage done to him by the bait. Do not be fooled! Do not resort to magic swords or silver arrows! These will only anger Ganon, increase his life meter, and waste precious bait attacking time."

I always roll my eyes when I see "L.O.L." all over the place, because I doubt people actually have that weak of a funny bone.

However, I actually did laugh out loud when reading that.

Also, nice side-burn about the Star Wars apologetics.

[Ed Oscuro]

I always shudder when I see LOL, because it means I haven't enabled smilies in my post :p

Now I suppose some avant-garde gamemaker is going to have to break Wavelflack's rule. Funny stuff with the retainers and princess, there.

Castlevania: The local baron has offered a reward to any intrepid exterminator capable of clearing out all the vermin from his castle. Buy healing potions and upgrades to your poison sprayer at the Castle Commisary! The Count's wedding is next month, so you should have plenty of time.*

*Only marginally less accurate than the average Konami translation

[Dr. Morbis]

I agree 100% with Wavelflack's post and, specifically, this part:

The idea that "he" was intentionally put in the manual to misguide everyone's assumptions and therefore set up the "surprise ending" is not the product of a thinking person. The fact is that at that time (and even now, I'd wager), game players naturally assumed that the hero was male, unless it was specifically shown not to be (Athena. etc.) Ambiguous character? Male. Character in a space suit? Male. Unseen racecar drivers, spaceship pilots, tank crews, etc? Male. "Princess Zelda" with long hair and dress? FEMALE. There is no need to reinforce the natural assumptions EVERYONE makes.
Keep in mind that this game was made in 1986 and released here in 1987. HOWEVER, even if this game were made/released today, ALL of the above would still be true. And anybody who thinks that manual writers and box artists in the NES era had intimate knowledge of the source material they were working on has very little experience with the NES (Mega Man box art anyone?).

[Ed Oscuro]

Heh, I believe Metroid would've been in production in late '85 or at latest the first quarter of '86 - back when the NES was definitely a new beast.

[rbudrick]

Keep in mind that this game was made in 1986 and released here in 1987. HOWEVER, even if this game were made/released today, ALL of the above would still be true. And anybody who thinks that manual writers and box artists in the NES era had intimate knowledge of the source material they were working on has very little experience with the NES (Mega Man box art anyone?).

You're forgetting that Capcom is not a first party. The third parties were horriblle at these kinds oif things. Nintendo was very meticulous. Trust me, Nintendo did NOT fuck up in their manual. The ending was supposed to be a surprise, peope!!!! Give this a restt and stop debating it. Nintendo is not stupid and cares very much for its projects. And don't "fanboy " me for saying that. If the ending was supposed to be a surprise, and its very well known that it was, why the hell would they reveal the secret in the insructions? Be logical, people.

-Rob

[Wavelflack]

You mean "Nitendo" is meticulous? That's how they refer to themselves in the Nintendo Player's Guide.

"With Nitendo, now you're playing with power!"

[Wavelflack]

I also forgot about the Zelda manual, where it not only shows a screenshot of the first cave giving you a choice between the wooden sword and the boomerang, but also give you hint on how to defeat Pols Voice--"Hates loud noises".

I didn't realize arrows were so loud.

[GarrettCRW]

I also forgot about the Zelda manual, where it not only shows a screenshot of the first cave giving you a choice between the wooden sword and the boomerang, but also give you hint on how to defeat Pols Voice--"Hates loud noises".

I didn't realize arrows were so loud.

That would be because in the Famicom Disk System version, you could kill the Pols Voices by shouting into the microphone built into controller #2 (arrows have the power of the White Sword against them in that version). So, obviously, the translator didn't have a clue....as he/she directly translated the original manual word for word.

[Wavelflack]

Hmm...

Do you mean to say that the manual writer didn't actually play the game they were writing about?

Hmmm...

[GarrettCRW]

Hmm...

Do you mean to say that the manual writer didn't actually play the game they were writing about?

Hmmm...

I'm saying the translator did what any good translator would do-they directly and faithfully translated the text they were given. Since the point about Pols Voice is technically correct (as the American player simply lacks a way to shout at the big-eared bastidges), no one ever bothered to create an oblique hint about the bow & arrow.

[Wavelflack]

Uh huh.

And the screenshot? (choice between boomerang and wooden sword)

That scene is not in the FDS version, or any rev of Zelda I have ever come across.

What is the secret intentional Nintendo meaning behind it?

[SoulBlazer]

Oh, is THAT was what was ment? I've wondered for YEARS what they ment by giving the hint that the Pols Voice 'hates loud noises'. I thought you were susposed to use the Whistle on them, as that's the only item in the game that makes a 'loud noise' -- well, that and the Bomb, but the whistle makes more sence.

Never knew the Famicom has a microphone either. :hmm:

[The_EniGma]

Maybe samus was a he-she man thingy!

Or it could be bad japanese translating, well all remember the "ALL YOUR BASE IS BELONG IS US" fiasco.

Otherwise it could be just they are trying not to spoil the ending which is most likely, come to think of it, ive never finished metroid. YOU BASTARDS! LOL

But seriously i think its probably to keep it a suprise.

[Ed Oscuro]

Never knew the Famicom has a microphone either. :hmm:
Sure thing, controller #2 on the Sharp Twin Famicom (and I assume the regular as well, since all you needed for playing Zelda no D. was a FDS unit).

Oh, and guys (rbudrick and GarrettyCRW)...man, it's obvious what happened. You said it yourself, Garrett: the translator had a clue.

What's more, it's never good practice to give people false information about a product, even if it is a video game.

"Haa! The Japanese manual talks about anti-lock brakes. There are no anti-lock brakes on this car, but I'm going to be LIKE ANY GOOD TRANSLATOR and put them in!" Obviously, you have to adjust for reality, and Nintendo didn't do that. That's not a good job in my book.

[rbudrick]

You mean "Nitendo" is meticulous? That's how they refer to themselves in the Nintendo Player's Guide.

"With Nitendo, now you're playing with power!"

Hey , I never said they were perfect....and besides that guide is not one of their games or intruction books. I think it was put together by in terns. :-D

Using the instruction manuals as an example, that Zelda Sword pic thing is the only real mistake I can think of that they made in a manual. The Super Mario 3 box with the slightly different level is the only other that comes to mind.

Now, if I took Capcom, Konami, or really any other third party, there is an incredible amount of errors (Simon's quest, for a biggie).

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

Hey , I never said they were perfect....and besides that guide is not one of their games or intruction books. I think it was put together by in terns. :-D
Then who was the genius that put together the Metroid manual?


Using the instruction manuals as an example, that Zelda Sword pic thing is the only real mistake I can think of that they made in a manual.
Cripes, outside of Samuses' GENDER...but I suppose that's not an error, is it x_x

Oh boy. I can't believe you guys aren't just trolling Wavelflack and me...have a hard time believing you can actually have faith that was done on purpose. All evidence is to the contrary.

[rbudrick]

Ed, it is well known that it was supposed to be a surprise. What meaningful evidence supports the opposite?

I'm pretty sure there was even a letter in Nintendo Power once that asked about this and Nintendo confirmed it was no error.

It bewilders me that you could even think that it was a mistake, but whatever.

-Rob

[Cirrus]

It bewilders me that you could even think that it was a mistake, but whatever.

-Rob

It bewilders ME that this thread isn't locked or ignored.

What have we learned here? I have no idea.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ed, it is well known that it was supposed to be a surprise. What meaningful evidence supports the opposite?
Do you read selectively or something? Of course it was a surprise. You don't lie to create surprises: "Hey Rob, it's not your birthday tomorrow so there won't be any surprises...don't turn on the lights when you enter your apartment, ok?" That's about how intelligent a plan this would be. "Hey guys, we're going to fuck with kids so they see Samus is a woman, but we're going to call Samus a man!" So instead of the slightly edgy woman in a spacesuit, we're going into territory that kids shouldn't likely be thinking about. Great plan for a company obsessed with not rocking the boat in the mid-80s.

I'm got to start ignoring this as a troll, even though I know that this sort of silliness is possible around here. There's a part of me that wants to believe that everybody's going to yell "SURPRISE! JUST JOSHIN' YA," because Lendelin, myself, and others have made it pretty clear what happened. Others who apparently have a need to believe their fallen heroes at Nintendo were unfallible in their glory days - as opposed to simply the lucky entrants in a competition-bereft market - may go their way. You're all wrong, of course, but if it's salve for those psychic wounds, so much the better, eh?

If this topic had been a horse, we'd be standing in a puddle of glue right now.

[davidbrit2]

Wow. A whole 3 pages regarding just the usage of the word "he" in a fucking game manual from the mid '80s. Ha ha.

You know, maybe the manual authors themselves didn't know Samus' "secret". Chew on that one for a while.

Or maybe Samus just has a dick. Yeah, that's probably it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Or maybe Samus just has a dick. Yeah, that's probably it.
Heh, just like the discussions everybody has about FFXI: "Japan is so twisted, all the characters must be herms!" Or perhaps a lot of edgy Victorians just came out of the closet and blamed it on somebody else? Eh, right...funny as hell either way (wait, that doesn't sound right).

Well, you'll see we brought up your first suggestion (what seemed like) at least a dozen times, some people just ignored that. Sigh. You win some 'an you lose some.

[rbudrick]

Do you read selectively or something?

I was thinking the same of you. Your only evidence is that Nintendo would't lie because it would put bad thoughts in kids' heads?? WTF, Beavis?

You are right about one thing. That poor fucking horse!! LOL LOL

It's alll pretty funny nonetheless to me. 8-)

-Rob

[Dr. Morbis]

The third parties were horriblle at these kinds oif things. Nintendo was very meticulous.
Haha good one, good one. Have you never played The Legend of Zelda? The entire game is written in broken English. If that is Nintendo being meticulous, I'd hate to see them on a bad day LOL ... and that is but one example out of hundreds.

Rob, no one is arguing over the fact that it is a surprise. We all know that it was meant to be a surprise. You believe that the ending is surprising because Nintendo intentionally used "he" in the manual to lead us into a false assumption. You are WRONG. Here's the situation in plain English:

Metroid players made the natural human assumption that Samus was a male. When they got to the end, they saw that she was female. Thus they were surprised.

I can't explain it any more simplistically than that. I hope all you doubters will come to understand.

I do love all the trolling, revisionist history, and conspiracy theories though... Good times, good times!

Have a nice day :D

[rbudrick]

You believe that the ending is surprising because Nintendo intentionally used "he" in the manual to lead us into a false assumption. You are WRONG.

There just hasn't been a single shred of evidence to support this in this thread that has made any logical sense. Just how was the narraor to refer to Samus inthe instructions? "It?"

If they used "she" there would have been no surprise. It's as simple as that. I always believed the narrator of the story in the instructions assumed Samus was male and thus retained the surprise. It's not lying, just a common writing technique. It seems a hell of a lot more logical than anything I've seen to the opposite.

-Rob

[portnoyd]

So.

I heard this was the lamest thread ever created. Is that true?