NANOSTRAY

[SkiDragon]

It seems that most are shrinkwrapped. Thats a relief for me.

[Putney]

mine came shrinked today, although the box got crushed slightly in a bubble mailer :angry: any way to get replacement boxes?


Nintendo sells DS cases online at http://store.nintendo.com/
Check under Parts and Accessories and then DS. They're listed under "Game Card Cases", $1 each, 5 for $4 or 10 for $7.

I picked mine up from TRU this past Sunday (they had about 5 total copies) and all of those were shrinkwrapped as well.

[Emily]

How lame! I got mine from GameCrazy and it was NOT wrapped in any sort of plastic at all :/ Could my copy have been returned or mabey tried out by employees?

[UndeadKing]

Got mine from Toys R Us and all three copies they had were shrinkwrapped.

[ChronoTriggaFoo]

Today I went by a local Gamestop and they had Nanostray available. I didn't ask how many copies the store had received, but they were at least there!

I REALLY want to play this game, but I haven't been convinced about the DS' library. However, it seems quite a few more quality games have come out that may change my mind, especially the new upcoming Lunar!

[josekortez]

Damn, my local TRU got no copies. The guy went back to ask the manager and they don't know anything about it.

[classicvidgamer]

Went to my local Best Buy and they had no copies of Nanostray. :(

So I high tailed it over to TRU and sure enough, they still had a few copies left. I picked one up and my roommate decided he should get one also. :P

The guy behind the counter asked me if I had played it and said he liked these types of games. He said he was surprised that it was his best selling DS game of the week. He thought he'd be selling more copies of everything else including the new Kirby's Canvas game. I was extremely glad to hear the game was selling well!

[jwl]

Mine was also shrinkwrapped. I got it at EB and they only got 2 copies in both shrinkwrapped. Does Majesco even use the folded over plastic sealing?

[Sotenga]

YES, I finally scored it! And I must say, it's damn good shmuppage. :D

The graphics are just freaking impressive, and the sound design isn't bad either. Good quality and some good compositions (although I am more partial to Iridion II's music), and I just love the boss designs. This game almost borders on the edge of being a manic shmup, as the heat can reach a level incomparable to any sunburn. Overall, it's recommended for any shmup fan out there.

I will criticize on its difficulty, though, as some of its challenge comes from some unforgiving factors in play. My primary bitch is how you have to use the touch screen to change weapons on the fly, and you'll have to stop firing for just a couple of seconds... which, in the skies of war, can lead to instant death in that time. Also, your slightly limited play area and the fact that direct enemy collisions instantly cost a life piss me off as well.

Despite a frustrating foundation of challenge and the fact that it feels a bit short (I managed to pass all the levels in one day), Nanostray is a gorgeous example of shmupping in the new millenium, and I hope that this won't be one of the few genre titles on the DS. However, I don't recommend this game to people who utterly loathe shmups... the aforementioned problematics won't help you appreciate the genre any. ;)

Overall, I'd say a B+ grade... boosted to an A- by the shmupping fanatic within me. :)

[Emily]

Despite a frustrating foundation of challenge and the fact that it feels a bit short (I managed to pass all the levels in one day), Nanostray is a gorgeous example of shmupping in the new millenium, and I hope that this won't be one of the few genre titles on the DS. However, I don't recommend this game to people who utterly loathe shmups... the aforementioned problematics won't help you appreciate the genre any. ;)

Overall, I'd say a B+ grade... boosted to an A- by the shmupping fanatic within me. :)

Hmm... I felt the opposite way. I think because the levels arent too incredibly long, and the bosses arent murderously hard, that this would make a great game for people who arent big shmup fans. Im not good at the shmup genre at all. Im just impatient and easily irritated by cheapo deaths.
A- all the way!

....Has anyone else gottn used to the weapon selection yet?I have no problems switching weapons on the fly after playing for a while.

[ubersaurus]

the fact that direct enemy collisions instantly cost a life piss me off as well.


What the hell game DIDN'T do that?

All I can think of are those "manic" ones on dreamcast, and those ones are kind weak.

[Sotenga]

the fact that direct enemy collisions instantly cost a life piss me off as well.


What the hell game DIDN'T do that?

All I can think of are those "manic" ones on dreamcast, and those ones are kind weak.

Oops-o. I actually forgot to mention the fact that "direct enemy collisions instantly costing a life piss me off" because you don't immediately die when hit by bullets! This game does give you a life meter that can sustain enemy fire, but hitting a vehicle = Instadeath. THAT, my friends, is BOGUS. It just irks me, anyway.

The hardest difficulty, however... one hit by ANYTHING = Instadeath. Yeowtch. :eek 2:


Hmm... I felt the opposite way. I think because the levels arent too incredibly long, and the bosses arent murderously hard, that this would make a great game for people who arent big shmup fans. Im not good at the shmup genre at all. Im just impatient and easily irritated by cheapo deaths.
A- all the way!

Hmm... you do have a point there. I forgot to mention that the game does give you three levels of difficulty to choose from, which does make it a bit more user-friendly. :)

[classicb]

yeah the more you play the less the controls become a factor.

I just use the L trigger when switching weapons. Not too bad at all. Of course it doesn't make the touch screen any more usefull.

[GrandAmChandler]

I just got back from vacation, but I must say that Nanostray is a quality game. Fond memories of fireshark for genny pop into my head. I am fine with the controls, I wish there was a weapon cycle button, but I can live. If anyone cares, my Gamestop had it for $29.99, and it was shrinkwrapped.

I also got a used complete copy of Meteos for DS for $19.99 at gamestop! Score! Is anyone else's DS collection growing VERY rapidly?

[Sotenga]

yeah the more you play the less the controls become a factor.

You are correct, sir! The more I'm playing this game, the more used I am to the mechanics! Hell, I'm actually starting to beat some of the tasks in Challenge Mode! :D

[robotriot]

So, what are your championship rankings? I'm at #99 right now =)

[ubersaurus]

Finally found a copy at Gamestop today.

I dont know what the complaint is with the touch buttons..I just use L to fire, and it's not as though I can't see the weapon change icons while shooting and fighting-I've switched mid wave before.

Fun as hell, though, I can see this staying in the DS for some time.

[kainemaxwell]

My FYE has one copy which I found today by accident (it was in the wrong bin). If anyone may want it, please lemme know soon as possible.

[GrandAmChandler]

I'm sorry, How did EGM manage to give this very good title 5.0's across the board? (Sept. 2005 issue.) What a load of crap. Grant it Nanostray has it's flaws, but it doesn't deserve a 50% from THREE reviewers. I am so frustrated!

[Sotenga]

I'm sorry, How did EGM manage to give this very good title 5.0's across the board? (Sept. 2005 issue.) What a load of crap. Grant it Nanostray has it's flaws, but it doesn't deserve a 50% from THREE reviewers. I am so frustrated!

Dude, dude... this is EGM we're talking about. Their opinion doesn't matter. Nanostray rules, and don't let them deter you. ;)

[classicb]

I'm sorry, How did EGM manage to give this very good title 5.0's across the board? (Sept. 2005 issue.) What a load of crap. Grant it Nanostray has it's flaws, but it doesn't deserve a 50% from THREE reviewers. I am so frustrated!

Dude, dude... this is EGM we're talking about. Their opinion doesn't matter. Nanostray rules, and don't let them deter you. ;)

I love EGM like my girl loves those trashy Cosmo magazines. Their great to flip through and look at all the pretty pictures and the trashy reviews are fun and sometimes laughable. I don't take their advice though and I hope my girlfriend doesn't either (except for maybe those 101 ways to please your man ones ;) ).

[zmweasel]

I'm sorry, How did EGM manage to give this very good title 5.0's across the board? (Sept. 2005 issue.) What a load of crap. Grant it Nanostray has it's flaws, but it doesn't deserve a 50% from THREE reviewers. I am so frustrated!

Prolly for the same reasons that GameSpy's Ben Turner--a hardcore gamer who most definitely knows a good shmup from a bad shmup--gave it 2 1/2 out of 5 stars. (http://gba.gamespy.com/nintendo-ds/nanostray/638067p1.html)

-- Z.

[ManciGames]

I'm sorry, How did EGM manage to give this very good title 5.0's across the board? (Sept. 2005 issue.) What a load of crap. Grant it Nanostray has it's flaws, but it doesn't deserve a 50% from THREE reviewers. I am so frustrated!

5.0's mean "average game". I'd say Nanostray is definitely an "average shooter". Not phenomenal, not horrible, but a nice and fun shooter in an era where shooters are a rarity. Give a starving man a cracker and it'll taste like a Ritz...

But it does deserve some attention. It's high quality all around. Just not revolutionary. And really, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Mr. Smashy]

Give a starving man a cracker and it'll taste like a Ritz...

Last time I checked, Ritz is the brand name of a certain line of crackers.

If you give somebody a cracker, chances are that it'll taste like a cracker. :P

[ManciGames]

Give a starving man a cracker and it'll taste like a Ritz...

Last time I checked, Ritz is the brand name of a certain line of crackers.

If you give somebody a cracker, chances are that it'll taste like a cracker. :P

Homework for tonight: Watch "Eddie Murphy - Raw".

[classicb]

I'm sorry, How did EGM manage to give this very good title 5.0's across the board? (Sept. 2005 issue.) What a load of crap. Grant it Nanostray has it's flaws, but it doesn't deserve a 50% from THREE reviewers. I am so frustrated!

Prolly for the same reasons that GameSpy's Ben Turner--a hardcore gamer who most definitely knows a good shmup from a bad shmup--gave it 2 1/2 out of 5 stars. (http://gba.gamespy.com/nintendo-ds/nanostray/638067p1.html)

-- Z.

The flaws that he pointed out in the scoring system are the reasons I think this SHMUP stands out. The very basics of this game you can plow through the game very easily but if you want high scores it takes not using your specials and some nifty dodging.

To me average would be doing the same thing every other SHMUP has done which seems to be what these reviewers want. Surprise surprise once again reviewers cry when its the same and then cry when its different.

[ubersaurus]

Nanostray's scoring system is what makes the game so cool.

Subweapon does plow through things, but try not using it (the way to the huge scores is, after all, getting the blue coins and destroying small enemy waves). You'll notice how crazy high your score gets, and how hard the game becomes when you're dodging all the shit the big enemies throw at you. For extra points, don't use the coin magnet. Then the game gets really rough.

It's one of the best games I've played on the DS, easily, and next to Trizeal, the best shooter I've played in a while.

[zmweasel]

The flaws that he pointed out in the scoring system are the reasons I think this SHMUP stands out. The very basics of this game you can plow through the game very easily but if you want high scores it takes not using your specials and some nifty dodging.

So you agree with Turner about the problems other than the scoring system? The weak-feeling weapons, the stupid touch-screen weapon-switching, the gameplay-damaging 3D perspective?

And I agree with Turner about this: what's point of playing a shooter in which you're penalized for shooting? Many other shmups have come up with better game-design methods of rewarding skillful player performance than taking away the best weapons in his arsenal.

As Turner wrote, "Shin'en seems to err on the side of technical gameplay fussiness at the expense of good old shootin' fun."

Of course, it might be that shmups are such a Oozle-Woozle genre at this point that most hardcore fans *will* enjoy the fussiness, which is sad.


To me average would be doing the same thing every other SHMUP has done which seems to be what these reviewers want. Surprise surprise once again reviewers cry when its the same and then cry when its different.

Turner isn't complaining because Nanostray is different; he's complaining because its differences harm the gameplay.

-- Z.

[GrandAmChandler]

I don't agree with 5.0 being average either. 5.0 / 10.0 = 50%. This means that there are games that are 50% better than Nanostray. Now obviously that 10.0 games are rare, but still, I think they kinda shrugged this one off upon some minor flaws and by who it's made. I think if this game was made by a bigger developer than Majesco, this game would have gotten a higher score.

I'd rate Nanostray overall a 7-7.5. But hey who am I? I'm just a gamer. :P

EDIT: Here are the official Reviews (from gamerankings.com)

Articles - 45 On File AVERAGE RATIO: 73.3% - (74.1%)


Site Name / Link Article Date Rating Ratio

Game Chronicles 8/2/2005 9.3 out of 10 93.0%
BonusStage 8/5/2005 8.8 out of 10 88.0%
Nintendo Spin 8/4/2005 8.8 out of 10 88.0%
Play Magazine 8/1/2005 8.5 out of 10 85.0%
Gamerz Edge 8/7/2005 8.5 out of 10 85.0%
Gaming Evolution 7/28/2005 8.5 out of 10 85.0%
Stuff Gamer 7/19/2005 8.5 out of 10 85.0%
N-Insanity 8/5/2005 8.4 out of 10 84.0%
VGPub 7/30/2005 8.2 out of 10 82.0%
IGN 7/19/2005 8 out of 10 80.0%
Nintendo Power 9/1/2005 8 out of 10 80.0%
GameDaily 7/27/2005 4 out of 5 80.0%
Game Informer 9/1/2005 8 out of 10 80.0%
HonestGamers 8/3/2005 8 out of 10 80.0%
Nintelligent Network 8/1/2005 8 out of 10 80.0%
Modojo 7/27/2005 4 out of 5 80.0%
Gamer Feed 7/26/2005 4 out of 5 80.0%
Game Freaks 365 8/5/2005 7.6 out of 10 76.0%
Nintendo Now 8/4/2005 7.5 out of 10 75.0%
Planet Gamecube 8/1/2005 7.5 out of 10 75.0%
Thunderbolt 8/3/2005 7 out of 10 70.0%
NTSC uk 8/14/2005 7 out of 10 70.0%
Gaming Age 8/8/2005 C+ 70.0%
Deeko.com 8/1/2005 7 out of 10 70.0%
About.com 7/29/2005 3.5 out of 5 70.0%
Game Zone 7/27/2005 7 out of 10 70.0%
Worth Playing 8/14/2005 6.9 out of 10 69.0%
Digital Entertainment 8/2/2005 6.9 out of 10 69.0%
GameMethod 8/8/2005 68 out of 100 68.0%
Team Fremont 7/27/2005 6.5 out of 10 65.0%
GameSpot 7/22/2005 6.5 out of 10 65.0%
1UP 7/19/2005 6.5 out of 10 65.0%
netjak 8/1/2005 6 out of 10 60.0%
Gamespy 8/1/2005 2.5 out of 5 50.0%
Electronic Gaming Monthly 9/1/2005 5 out of 10 50.0%

I think the thing that bothers me the most is that ALL THREE EGM reviewers gave it a 5.0.

[zmweasel]

I don't agree with 5.0 being average either. 5.0 / 10.0 = 50%. This means that there are games that are 50% better than Nanostray. Now obviously that 10.0 games are rare, but still, I think they kinda shrugged this one off upon some minor flaws and by who it's made. I think if this game was made by a bigger developer than Majesco, this game would have gotten a higher score.

I've never heard anyone claim that a 10.0 game is "50% better" than a 5.0 game, which is an insanely literal interpretation of an arbitrary rating system. (Also, by your definition, a 10.0 game would be "100% better" than a 5.0 game.)

Majesco was only the publisher of Nanostray, incidentally; Shin'en was the developer.

Why do you think that Nanostray would've received a higher score had it come from another publisher?


EDIT: Here are the official Reviews (from gamerankings.com)

A high rating from Play (which overrates everything, as does every Halverson-run publication), high ratings from Nintendo fansites and other amateur sites, and mostly sensible scores from major websites and magazines. No surprises here.

Throw out all the fansite scores (please) and you get:

Play 85%
Game Informer 80%
GameSpot 65%
1UP 65%
GameSpy 50%
EGM 50%

...for an average of 65.8%.

-- Z.

[Mr. Smashy]

Give a starving man a cracker and it'll taste like a Ritz...

Last time I checked, Ritz is the brand name of a certain line of crackers.

If you give somebody a cracker, chances are that it'll taste like a cracker. :P

Homework for tonight: Watch "Eddie Murphy - Raw".

Oh yeah...Eddie Murphy. I should have known. I guess that my mind must be slipping since I can't remember an obscure quote from a comedy routine that I haven't seen in well over a decade.

Since you're trying to teach me a lesson, maybe I should commit Raw to memory. That way, I can take stale jokes and use them out of context too.


A high rating from Play (which overrates everything, as does every Halverson-run publication), high ratings from Nintendo fansites and other amateur sites, and mostly sensible scores from major websites and magazines. No surprises here.

Yeah. God forbid that any game critic could actually enjoy the game enough to give it a great review. :roll:
Hey. Here's and idea. Why don't we just let game critics dictate whether or not we should like a game. That way, we won't need to form our own opinions of games at all.

Could you explain that "sensible score" in an "arbitrary rating system" concept to me?

[ManciGames]

Oh yeah...Eddie Murphy. I should have known. I guess that my mind must be slipping since I can't remember an obscure quote from a comedy routine that I haven't seen in well over a decade.

Since you're trying to teach me a lesson, maybe I should commit Raw to memory. That way, I can take stale jokes and use them out of context too.

Wow, you're a touchy lil' guy, aren't ya?

Don't worry about not getting the line. You were probably just stoned when you were watching it...

[zmweasel]

Yeah. God forbid that any game critic could actually enjoy the game enough to give it a great review. :roll

I'm simply pointing out that the lowest Nanostray scores came from the most professional (jaded) review outlets.


Could you explain that "sensible score" in an "arbitrary rating system" concept to me?

If you're going to use a rating system (which most writers hate and most readers love), you might as well issue sensible scores within whatever system you've chosen. For a 10-point system, that means using 5 as an average, not 7; for a five-star system, that means using 2 1/2 stars as an average, not 3 1/2.

In other words, both EGM and GameSpy properly issued average scores to an average game.

-- Z.

[RCM]

Fuck what the reviewers say. Play the game and decide for yourself.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[classicb]

So you agree with Turner about the problems other than the scoring system? The weak-feeling weapons, the stupid touch-screen weapon-switching, the gameplay-damaging 3D perspective?

No, touch-screen weapon-switching is the only flaw I really see in the game and as people have already discussed here if you play the game longer than a reviewer you get used to the controlls.



And I agree with Turner about this: what's point of playing a shooter in which you're penalized for shooting? Many other shmups have come up with better game-design methods of rewarding skillful player performance than taking away the best weapons in his arsenal.

You're only penalized if you care about getting a high score. Its not like it takes away your shield or something.




As Turner wrote, "Shin'en seems to err on the side of technical gameplay fussiness at the expense of good old shootin' fun."

Of course, it might be that shmups are such a Oozle-Woozle genre at this point that most hardcore fans *will* enjoy the fussiness, which is sad.

Oh no it sounds like he got a low score. Once again it is the technical gameplay and "fussiness" that make this game a stand out. I have plenty of other SHMUPS where I can just plow through levels.

Personally I cut these reviewers a little slack because they review the game for their average reader and the average reader probably wont get a kick out of the deep scoring system.

I think most people already know if you want to find out if a game is good or not talk to people who like the same games as you. When this game came out I followed the thread over at shmups.com They have a great thread here about Nanostray

http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4034

@Z I don't understand why you jump into these discussions and defend your reviewer friends when its obvious you haven't spent much time with the game. You did this before in the Meteos thread.

[GrandAmChandler]

@ zm - I understand their 5.0= average rating system. My point is it deserved higher. The list that I posted was the intent to show you that everyone else liked it better than EGM & 1up.com. Every other publication liked it better than them, and so did readers. You are quite knowledgeable, but I disagree with EGM's "5.0's across the board, no questions asked." review. Very dissapointing from a major gaming publication, good thing I get this free. :roll:

[zmweasel]

No, touch-screen weapon-switching is the only flaw I really see in the game and as people have already discussed here if you play the game longer than a reviewer you get used to the controlls.

So you think the weapon set does't feel weak, and the 3D perspective with its invisible barriers doesn't hurt gameplay, and that the controls don't hurt gameplay because you "get used to them" (not really a defense, as humans can get used to anything). Fair enough.


You're only penalized if you care about getting a high score. Its not like it takes away your shield or something.

Many other shooters have implemented methods of allowing players to aim for high scores without suffering the tedium of not being allowed to use their best weapons. That was Turner's point.


Oh no it sounds like he got a low score. Once again it is the technical gameplay and "fussiness" that make this game a stand out. I have plenty of other SHMUPS where I can just plow through levels.

I'm sure Turner could, and did, play through Nanostray. He's an excellent gamer, and a shmup fan who was the first person to explain "TATE" to me.


Personally I cut these reviewers a little slack because they review the game for their average reader and the average reader probably wont get a kick out of the deep scoring system.

That's essentially what I said in my previous post. Hardcore shmuppers are such a tiny clique at this point that most of them will enjoy or force themselves to enjoy Nanostray's fussy scoring system, while gamers who play all genres won't.


@Z I don't understand why you jump into these discussions and defend your reviewer friends when its obvious you haven't spent much time with the game. You did this before in the Meteos thread.

I stand by my opinions of Nanostray and Meteos, and I'm curious why you think "I haven't spent much time with the game(s)" simply because I don't think they're as good as you do.

As for "my reviewer friends," I worked with Ben in a professional capacity, but I would disagree with him if I felt he was wrong. For example, despite his considerable experience with video game pinball, I disagree with the four-star review he gave Flipnic. (After the first table, it goes immediately and permanently downhill.) In this case, though, he's right.

As for Meteos, I don't personally know any of the reviewers who wrote it up.

Nanostray is a shooter with a touch-screen system and a 3D perspective that don't work well, paired with an overly technical scoring system. Meteos is an action/puzzler that rewards random actions. Where's the controversy in either of these statements?

EDIT: I forgot to include these quotes pulled from that shumps.com forum you pointed me to. Here's what the "hardcore" guys are saying:

"Nanostray DISCOURAGES you to ever use your power-attacks until the final boss where no more blue coins can be had (though you do get two more at the Mitsurin Jungle boss)."

"So basically, you cannot use autofire on ANYTHING."

"Without using power-attacks or auto-fire, it's nigh on impossible to kill anything that isn't a popcorn enemy (there are exceptions) and thus the screen gets insanely cluttered with waves coming in and giant enemies filling the screen with bullets and/or themselves. Yes, this makes the game more difficult, but its also frustrating because you cannot get the points from the bigger enemies."

"The slanted perspective and sloppy hit detection makes some hits incredibly unfair and also makes it hard to aim."

"the scoring system in this game is retarded...i have no idea what the hell shin'en was thinking...bad game design is annoying..i really hope i am missing something here.... they could have come up with better ways to tempt players to reduce the amount of shots or auto fire on the screen with out making the valor system too overpowered...."

And I could've pulled another 20 complaints, at least. But these ones adequately confirm that hardcore shmuppers are equally bothered by what Turner complained about in his review. They're just more tolerant because beggars can't be choosers.

-- Z.

[ubersaurus]

You know, people complain about invisible barriers in this game, and I have yet to notice. Like, at all.

Nanostray just seems to be, on some level, like a game that trys to appeal to the fans that like straight up shooting things, and the ones that like to dodge inordinate amounts of shit(which is exactly what happens if you don't use the subweapon).

If you want to whore them out, go for it. Beat the game, and bitch about it being easy. If you want to try to get through without using them, then go crazy with your high score. Quite frankly it sounds like this reviewer is probably another one of those guys that declares Ikaruga the end-all of shooters, too.

[zmweasel]

@ zm - I understand their 5.0= average rating system. My point is it deserved higher. The list that I posted was the intent to show you that everyone else liked it better than EGM & 1up.com. Every other publication liked it better than them, and so did readers. You are quite knowledgeable, but I disagree with EGM's "5.0's across the board, no questions asked." review. Very dissapointing from a major gaming publication, good thing I get this free. :roll:

The point of my response was to indicate that the majority of professional reviews, from prosites and print mags, were at the low end of the list. I certainly don't expect DS releases to receive low scores from Nintendo Spin, N-Insanity, Nintendo Power, Nintelligent Network, Nintendo Now, Planet GameCube, et al.

-- Z.

[ubersaurus]

@ zm - I understand their 5.0= average rating system. My point is it deserved higher. The list that I posted was the intent to show you that everyone else liked it better than EGM & 1up.com. Every other publication liked it better than them, and so did readers. You are quite knowledgeable, but I disagree with EGM's "5.0's across the board, no questions asked." review. Very dissapointing from a major gaming publication, good thing I get this free. :roll:

The point of my response was to indicate that the majority of professional reviews, from prosites and print mags, were at the low end of the list. I certainly don't expect DS releases to receive low scores from Nintendo Spin, N-Insanity, Nintendo Power, Nintelligent Network, Nintendo Now, Planet GameCube, et al.

-- Z.

Yup, and all of them clearly have poor taste.

[zmweasel]

Yup, and all of them clearly have poor taste.

Poor taste, I wouldn't know. Inherent bias, certainly.

-- Z.

[classicb]

So you think the weapon set does't feel weak, and the 3D perspective with its invisible barriers doesn't hurt gameplay,
-- Z.

this is why I don't think you've spent much time with the game. I was one of the first people in this thread to point out the invisible barriers and everybody else was quick to point out it doesn't effect the game play. So yes it seems like a flaw when you first play it but if you spend any real time with it you'll see it doesn't effect gameplay at all. So A) you haven't spent much time with the game or B) you're really bad at the game.

I don't understand the weapon argument either I've never based my shmups on the power of their weapons.

The developers made some decisions and you'll either love it or hate it I guess. But what annoys me is when reviewers and people like you say that people who like this game only like it because they are starved for shooters. Which is not true if you're into importing for the PS2 which I'm sure you are with your new found knowledge of TATE.

In the end I don't think anyone is saying this game is a 10 but it is the best shooter I've ever played on a handheld and much better than a 5.

[ubersaurus]

Yup, and all of them clearly have poor taste.

Poor taste, I wouldn't know. Inherent bias, certainly.

-- Z.

With you, clearly.

It's an excellent shooter, and I'm sick of hearing reviewers tout how goddamn wonderful a crappy game like Ikaruga is and then rag on fun shooters like Nanostray, Trizeal, R-Type Final, or Border Down.

I mean, in Galaga you can wipe out all the enemies while they're in formation and get farther in the game. If you want the high score, though, you're gonna wait for them to come down. This is limiting the gameplay, limiting your shoot time. In your view, what's the point?

In my view, the point is you're building up a higher score, and if you don't want to play that way, you certainly don't have to.

[zmweasel]

With you, clearly.

Huh? Please explain.


It's an excellent shooter, and I'm sick of hearing reviewers tout how goddamn wonderful a crappy game like Ikaruga is and then rag on fun shooters like Nanostray, Trizeal, R-Type Final, or Border Down.

It's not just reviewers who are ragging on Nanostray. Check out the shmups.com thread cited above for similar complaints from the genre's hardcore fans.


I mean, in Galaga you can wipe out all the enemies while they're in formation and get farther in the game. If you want the high score, though, you're gonna wait for them to come down. This is limiting the gameplay, limiting your shoot time. In your view, what's the point?

Shmup design has evolved in the 24 years since Galaga, and shmups have figured out how to reward skillful players via methods less fussy and limiting than preventing them from firing their weapons.


In my view, the point is you're building up a higher score, and if you don't want to play that way, you certainly don't have to.

Shmups are all ABOUT earning a high score, hence the importance of a well-designed scoring system, hence the complaints about Nanostray's overly fussy system.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

The developers made some decisions and you'll either love it or hate it I guess. But what annoys me is when reviewers and people like you say that people who like this game only like it because they are starved for shooters. Which is not true if you're into importing for the PS2 which I'm sure you are with your new found knowledge of TATE.

"People like me"? Please explain what that's supposed to mean.

As for shmup fans being starved for shooters, are you seriously debating that fewer and fewer shmups are being released each year (even taking imports into account)?

-- Z.

[ubersaurus]

With you, clearly.

Huh? Please explain.


It's an excellent shooter, and I'm sick of hearing reviewers tout how goddamn wonderful a crappy game like Ikaruga is and then rag on fun shooters like Nanostray, Trizeal, R-Type Final, or Border Down.

It's not just reviewers who are ragging on Nanostray. Check out the shmups.com thread cited above for similar complaints from the genre's hardcore fans.


I mean, in Galaga you can wipe out all the enemies while they're in formation and get farther in the game. If you want the high score, though, you're gonna wait for them to come down. This is limiting the gameplay, limiting your shoot time. In your view, what's the point?

Shmup design has evolved in the 24 years since Galaga, and shmups have figured out how to reward skillful players via methods less fussy and limiting than preventing them from firing their weapons.


In my view, the point is you're building up a higher score, and if you don't want to play that way, you certainly don't have to.

Shmups are all ABOUT earning a high score, hence the importance of a well-designed scoring system, hence the complaints about Nanostray's overly fussy system.

-- Z.

Well ok then, how many shooters reward you points for not using bombs? Bombs are, after all, a form of "subweapon" that you have limited ammunition for, like Nanostray's subweapons.

Border Down rewards you for picking your spots to fire your subweapon to get maximum score. You can't just fire the thing off whenever the hell you feel like it, energy level aside, if you want a good score. Further, you have to travel the red border to get the really good score bonuses. This makes the score hungry miss out on 2/3rds the game, but after an initial negative reaction, people seem to have warmed up to Border Down, even on that shmups site.

Zanac, a classic and fantastic shooter, would throw inordinate amounts of enemies at you the more you fired your main gun, and with limited ammo for most subweapons, you had to pick and choose your spots in that game too. Trizeal, a game that I've played the hell out of lately, throws so much shit at you once you power up completely that to get high scores, you again have to pick your spots and weapons to strengthen, especially once it comes down to grabbing the multiple-score icons.

Hell, even Soukyugurentai, as I remember, is more rewarding if you use your lockon lasers over the main gun. Why use the main gun then?

You act as though a shooter has never been made that didn't want you to be firing the entire time. It's a clear attempt to make a game that appeals to casual players and shmup fans, and I thought it came off pretty damn well.

[classicb]

The developers made some decisions and you'll either love it or hate it I guess. But what annoys me is when reviewers and people like you say that people who like this game only like it because they are starved for shooters. Which is not true if you're into importing for the PS2 which I'm sure you are with your new found knowledge of TATE.

"People like me"? Please explain what that's supposed to mean.

Here you go:



That's essentially what I said in my previous post. Hardcore shmuppers are such a tiny clique at this point that most of them will enjoy or force themselves to enjoy Nanostray's fussy scoring system, while gamers who play all genres won't.

This is the kind of crap I don't like. Why must you assume that if we like the game we are forcing are selves to do so.



As for shmup fans being starved for shooters, are you seriously debating that fewer and fewer shmups are being released each year (even taking imports into account)?

-- Z.

No I'm not. Just pointing out their are other great shooters out their for people to choose from.

BTW excellent job with those quotes from shmup.com Some of those quotes came from kids who just joined the boards.

[esquire]

Shmups are all ABOUT earning a high score, hence the importance of a well-designed scoring system, hence the complaints about Nanostray's overly fussy system.

-- Z.

Shmups are my favorite genre of games. I own many of them for several consoles, from the NES to XBOX, as well as handhelds - GB, GBC, GBA, NGPC, Lynx and DS. Now I don't consider myself a fanboy, snob or elite, but I can tell you that the score is the least of my concerns when playing Shmups. I'm more about the gameplay than concerning myself with uber scores.

Oh, and I love Nanostray. There's no way in hell it only deserves a 5.0. A 10? Certainly not. But it's better than a 5.0. I'd agree with a prior poster who said around 7.0 to 7.5.

[zmweasel]

Uber, you've cited several excellent examples of shmup design in which the player is rewarded for skillful and judicious use of weapons.

The problem with Nanostray is that it goes too far with its limitations on when and what the player can use in order to achieve high scores. It's a simple but significant difference.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Shmups are my favorite genre of games. I own many of them for several consoles, from the NES to XBOX, as well as handhelds - GB, GBC, GBA, NGPC, Lynx and DS. Now I don't consider myself a fanboy, snob or elite, but I can tell you that the score is the least of my concerns when playing Shmups. I'm more about the gameplay than concerning myself with uber scores.

High scores are a fundamental aspect of shmup gameplay. Why else would you play a shmup? Just to shoot things? There are thousands of non-shmups that allow you to scratch that itch, most with better eye candy than any traditional shmup can provide. Playing a shmup without caring about the score is like playing an RPG without caring about the story.

-- Z.

[RCM]

Shmups are my favorite genre of games. I own many of them for several consoles, from the NES to XBOX, as well as handhelds - GB, GBC, GBA, NGPC, Lynx and DS. Now I don't consider myself a fanboy, snob or elite, but I can tell you that the score is the least of my concerns when playing Shmups. I'm more about the gameplay than concerning myself with uber scores.

High scores are a fundamental aspect of shmup gameplay. Why else would you play a shmup? Just to shoot things? There are thousands of non-shmups that allow you to scratch that itch, most with better eye candy than any traditional shmup can provide. Playing a shmup without caring about the score is like playing an RPG without caring about the story.

-- Z.

My goal with all the shmups I love is to play until I can beat them without using a continue. High scores don't mean much to me.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[classicb]

Shmups are my favorite genre of games. I own many of them for several consoles, from the NES to XBOX, as well as handhelds - GB, GBC, GBA, NGPC, Lynx and DS. Now I don't consider myself a fanboy, snob or elite, but I can tell you that the score is the least of my concerns when playing Shmups. I'm more about the gameplay than concerning myself with uber scores.

High scores are a fundamental aspect of shmup gameplay. Why else would you play a shmup? Just to shoot things? There are thousands of non-shmups that allow you to scratch that itch, most with better eye candy than any traditional shmup can provide. Playing a shmup without caring about the score is like playing an RPG without caring about the story.

-- Z.

what a stupid thing to say. now you're telling people why they should like the game. I like going for high scores but I certainly don't expect everyone too.

[zmweasel]

This is the kind of crap I don't like. Why must you assume that if we like the game we are forcing are selves to do so.

A shmup fan, by his (and it's always his) very nature, is inclined to look for the positive aspects of any game in his chosen genre. He'll take a mediocre shooter like Nanostray over a very good game in most other genres. RPG fans, a hardcore clique with which I have much experience, are much the same, but they're fortunate enough to have many more choices in the modern game biz.

Shmups (like 2D fighters) designed themselves into the Oozle-Woozle ghetto, and so shmup fans don't have the option of being picky. The people at shmups.com are bitching about Nanostray, but they're still playing it, because what other North American shmups have recently shipped?


BTW excellent job with those quotes from shmup.com Some of those quotes came from kids who just joined the boards.

As I stated in my earlier post, I could have cited several dozen more negative comments, many of which I'm sure would meet your standard for "experienced" shmup fans.

Also, why do you discount the opinion of a forum newbie? Just because someone is new to shmups.com doesn't discount his opinion, if it's an educated one.

Finally, since you're the one who cited that thread to begin with, why are you complaining that I'm quoting from it? You said it was a "great thread."

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

what a stupid thing to say. now you're telling people why they should like the game. I like going for high scores but I certainly don't expect everyone too.

I simply question why anyone would play a shmup if not for the high-score aspect.

To shoot things? As stated above, you can get that fix from many, many, many games that aren't constrained by the limitations of shmup design.

For eye candy? As stated above, you can get that fix from many, many, many other games that aren't constrained by the limitations of shmup design.

(It's because of these limitations that the shmup genre has fallen out of favor, just as the point-and-click adventure was supplanted by games that incorporated puzzle-solving and story-telling aspects while ditching the cumbersome elements of point-and-click design.)

If you're playing a shmup, you're playing it because you enjoy the puzzle-ish element of memorizing patterns ("until I can beat them without using a continue," as Rob stated above) and earning a high score, just as I play pinball because I enjoy the physics of the game and earning a high score.

-- Z.

[classicb]

Do you even own this game? All I want to know now is how much time you've spent playing this game?

[Gamereviewgod]

I simply question why anyone would play a shmup if not for the high-score aspect.

To shoot things? As stated above, you can get that fix from many, many, many games that aren't constrained by the limitations of shmup design.

For eye candy? As stated above, you can get that fix from many, many, many other games that aren't constrained by the limitations of shmup design.

I'm not a high score person. I missed that era by a few years, and grew up with the NES. Hence, I'm playing a shooter to see if I can weave in between shots, feel the tension, and beat the game. There's nothing wrong with that, and that's the reason why so many people have stuck with the genre. I HATE the "new" shooters like Mars Matrix hwever. That's just dumb luck for the most part.

I loved Nanostray. It's a solid, albeit short, shooter. I've replayed it quite a bit. The difficulty is high enough to keep me busy. I thought the scoring system was well implemented and unique. There's an extra layer there for people who enjoy a challenge like that. It's fair in it's challenge, and taking out those big ships provides a great feeling.

The perspective and the "blocked path" per se didn't bother me at all. They also didn't bother me in Raystorm and Raycrisis either. I'm sure there are other shooters like that (didn't Sipheed do it on the Sega CD too?). It's neccesary to keep everything in perspective, and it creates depth. I can't say it's ever caused me to die. Had Classic never mentioned it, I doubt I would have even noticed it.

[ManciGames]

I'm not a high score person. I missed that era by a few years, and grew up with the NES. Hence, I'm playing a shooter to see if I can weave in between shots, feel the tension, and beat the game.

Same here, and I actually lived through that era. Heck even in the "high score" era, I was still just trying to "beat the game". I remember playing Asteroids for the 2600 for hours on end trying to flip the score. Sure, I had to get a high score to do that, but that wasn't really my goal.

I never really thought of it that way until now. Interesting...

[ubersaurus]

Uber, you've cited several excellent examples of shmup design in which the player is rewarded for skillful and judicious use of weapons.

The problem with Nanostray is that it goes too far with its limitations on when and what the player can use in order to achieve high scores. It's a simple but significant difference.

-- Z.

The problem is that said idea of what's "too far" is pure opinion. I thought it was perfectly fine, myself. The game doesn't "punish" you for going apeshit with the secondary weapons on the bosses, which is really the only time when I ever found myself using them. They make the levels easier, but you can still get through regardless. I mean, you lose points using the coin magnet, which not using makes the game much harder than not using the secondaries.

I'm just seeing it as a nitpick that gets way too much griping, like the perspective, or the touch screen(which, I'd like to point out, never seemed to be a problem to me).

[Zigfried]

This sounds less like a legitimate complaint against the reviewers and more like a chip on your shoulder.

I came into this thread looking for opinions (the game was recommended to me by a friend) and my opinion is heading steadily south. I'm hearing a lot of "good despite" and "but", as opposed to lists of reasons why the game rocks. Insulting one of my favorite shooters doesn't help convince me, either.

For me, it's exactly as zmweasel said: I enjoy even sub-par shooters (like Truxton, R-Type Final, and Trizeal) because I love the genre... but I've got plenty of other things to spend my money on, so given the choice, I'd rather stick to excellence (like Ikaruga, Border Down, and ESPgaluda).

[MrSmiley381]

Is this game in such low supply? I think the local Babbage's has some, if not a crapton. I'll ask for you guys, OK? Anyone that wants one, I'm sure I could get it for you. Remember: LIMITED SUPPLY. I just hope it's not *TOO* mediocre.

[ManciGames]

Is this game in such low supply? I think the local Babbage's has some, if not a crapton. I'll ask for you guys, OK? Anyone that wants one, I'm sure I could get it for you. Remember: LIMITED SUPPLY. I just hope it's not *TOO* mediocre.

I have yet to see it in any "big box" store like Best Buy or Wal-Mart. Haven't been in the local EB lately though...

[ubersaurus]

It's an excellent shooter, and I'm sick of hearing reviewers tout how goddamn wonderful a crappy game like Ikaruga is and then rag on fun shooters like Nanostray, Trizeal, R-Type Final, or Border Down.

This sounds less like a legitimate complaint against the reviewers and more like a chip on your shoulder.

I came into this thread looking for opinions (the game was recommended to me by a friend) and my opinion is heading steadily south. I'm hearing a lot of "good despite" and "but", as opposed to lists of reasons why the game rocks. Insulting one of my favorite shooters doesn't help convince me, either.

For me, it's exactly as zmweasel said: I enjoy even sub-par shooters (like Truxton, R-Type Final, and Trizeal) because I love the genre... but I've got plenty of other things to spend my money on, so given the choice, I'd rather stick to excellence (like Ikaruga, Border Down, and ESPgaluda).

//Zig

I'd say it's more an opinion. I was bored with Ikaruga in under a week-the level designs just weren't cutting it. Whereas Nanostray, Trizeal, RTF, these are all games I've gone back to and played over and over.

It's not so much a chip on my shoulder as it is my inability to comprehend why ANYONE would pick Ikaruga over a number of other great shooters out there. The only thing I can think of is pure fanboyism for whatever Treasure cranks out, and that can't possibly account for everybody who's said it's good.

[calthaer]

I picked this one up even though I don't yet own a DS - played it with a friend's DS. Very cool, and I love it. Agreed in that the touchscreen weapon switch is nothing short of annoying, but overall is a good shmup.

[Jasoco]

It's not so much a chip on my shoulder as it is my inability to comprehend why ANYONE would pick Ikaruga over a number of other great shooters out there. The only thing I can think of is pure fanboyism for whatever Treasure cranks out, and that can't possibly account for everybody who's said it's good.Ikaruga is a very fun and kick-ass game. I like it for how it is pulled off. The cinematics. The graphics. It's a very good game.

I don't know who the fuck Treasure is, nor do I care who makes a game. I play what's fun and Ikaruga is fun. You need to take a chill pill. Shouting "Fanboy!" at someone who likes a game you don't is pure ignorance and stupidity.

That aside, I haven't seen this game anywhere yet. I really want it though. So I'll keep looking.

Speaking of Ikaruga, the day it's ported to the PSP is the day I die happy.

[ubersaurus]

It's not so much a chip on my shoulder as it is my inability to comprehend why ANYONE would pick Ikaruga over a number of other great shooters out there. The only thing I can think of is pure fanboyism for whatever Treasure cranks out, and that can't possibly account for everybody who's said it's good.Ikaruga is a very fun and kick-ass game. I like it for how it is pulled off. The cinematics. The graphics. It's a very good game.

I don't know who the fuck Treasure is, nor do I care who makes a game. I play what's fun and Ikaruga is fun. You need to take a chill pill. Shouting "Fanboy!" at someone who likes a game you don't is pure ignorance and stupidity.

That aside, I haven't seen this game anywhere yet. I really want it though. So I'll keep looking.

Speaking of Ikaruga, the day it's ported to the PSP is the day I die happy.

Have you checked gamestop recently? 2 of the stores I've been to recently have Nanostray on their shelves-it's not all the gamestops around here, so I don't know how representative it is, but they're pretty much the only ones I go to.

If you'll note I know that not everyone who likes Ikaruga is a Treasure fanboy, but I've seen my fair share, at stores, conventions, internet sites, magazines, etc. Yes, they did good games like Astro Boy, Wario World, Gunstar Heroes, Bangai-O, and Gradius V(A fantastic shooter that they pulled off). I just can't count that game as one I've enjoyed as much as I have other shooters. Offhand I can think of R-Type Final, Starfox 64, Galactic Attack, and Zanac as shooters that I played for an incredible amount of time when I got the game, and a fair amount since. Not so with that one, however.

I may be in the minority, but I've never been known for being quiet :)