Messiah Delays Gen NEX deliveries again!

[Great Hierophant]

I should really check DP more often. As one who helped identify the specific compatibility problems of the US Neo-Fami, I bear some small responsibility for this situation.

The emulator authors of Nestopia and Nintendulator had it far harder because not only did they have the basic NES but also to emulate mapper hardware as well. NEX could concentrate its efforts solely on the workings of the NES. Moreover, these emulator authors aren't aren't paid, yet their emulation of the basic NES hardware is so close to perfect that even Nintendo would find it hard to compete. (Mappers aren't quite there, but they're pretty close.)

Most importantly, the authors of Nestopia and Nintendulator, Marty and Quietust, aren't getting paid. NEX costs $60 I think. It is disappointing because all Messiah had to do was to take a Famicom A/V and add a 72-pin connector and connect the two lines on controller port #2 that the Zapper uses. The Famicom A/V is built on 30-year old NMOS technology and uses DIP chips. Instead they went the cheap route and used an NOAC and interfaced it to a good design.

If they did their homework, they may have salvaged the console by adding the two lines they left unconnected on the PPU bus as kevtris suggested on the NESdev forum. As it stands, users will have to solder wires, which for $60 they should not have had to do. This is a case of making ignorant assumptions. The only pins on the NES connector you can leave safely floating are the 10 expansion pins in the middle of the connector and the 4 security pins on the side of the connector, because no NES cartridge or hardware can use them unless being run on a frontloader.

Has anyone tried the games that don't work like Castlevania or Gauntlet on the 60-pin connector using a Family Converter or the like from Lik-Sang? If the lines are connected on that connector, because more Famicom games used them, then perhaps the games might work that way.

[evg2000]

JagasianHave you tried both switch settings on the back of Firehawk? If it really requires hitting the start button before the start screen loads, then that should be listed in the compatibility chart. Games should not be listed as working if they have such compatibility issues.
Yes, I tried both setting with the switch and it seems to work with the switch in either position. I also found that it's best to start pressing start as soon as the codemaster screen is finished rendering, keep pressing until the game starts.

[evg2000]

Has anyone tried the games that don't work like Castlevania or Gauntlet on the 60-pin connector using a Family Converter or the like from Lik-Sang? If the lines are connected on that connector, because more Famicom games used them, then perhaps the games might work that way.

yes, and it didn't work

[Jagasian]

Has anyone tried the games that don't work like Castlevania or Gauntlet on the 60-pin connector using a Family Converter or the like from Lik-Sang? If the lines are connected on that connector, because more Famicom games used them, then perhaps the games might work that way.

yes, and it didn't work

This implies that the Famicom support is even worse, percentage-wise, compared to the NES support. I guess the next thing to try is to solder the disconnected lines. If that gets things to work, then maybe Messiah could release a second version of the NEX? It wouldn't fix every problem that the NEX has, but maybe it could at least get a few more games to run.

Messiah seriously should have hired kevtris. He has already designed a custom NES clone that is perfectly compatible with all NES and Famicom games. Of course, using a NOAC will always be cheaper when it comes to R&D and manufacturing... but NOAC based Famiclones are a dime a dozen. Just run an Ebay search and see. Somebody needs to make a worthy replacement for the Famicom and NES. A system that is natively 100% compatible with all Famicom and NES games, accessories, and peripherials, as well as having accurate audio and video. Oh, and stereo and s-video output too. kevtris has done it, but needs somebody to bank-roll his design.

[Computolio]

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the NEX was a standard Famiclone, but having never played with a standard Famiclone for any length of time I really didn't have much to go on.

What's kind of sad here is that I'm pretty sure where at least $50 of that $60 went - The luxurious wireless support, making a fancy case, creating a (somewhat subpar) custom board for the Famichip, packaging the thing in a needlessly fancy plastic box and printing that needlessly thick funky-shaped manual and RARITY GUIDE(jesus christ).

I mean what the hell would warrant bundling a collector-oriented guide with the hardware when so few among the hardware's intended audience actually has a use for it? Is your average Tom Dick and Harry going to start taking out a second mortgage on the house so they can buy a NWC 1990 cart or something?

Would getting Kevin Horton on the phone have cost so much more? Especially considering the previous success of Jeri Ellisworth's C64-in-a-joystick?

[Computolio]

It can run games close to full speed, but needs frameskipping in order to maintain full speed. This is a bad thing for many reasons. I wouldn't even consider playing emulated NES games unless they ran at full speed with no frameskipping. The Xbox FCEUltraX can do just that. Still, FCEUltraX has game incompatibilities, but far fewer than the NEX system, and NesterDC.

Did you underclock your Dreamcast or something? NESterDC gets full framerate in all games pretty much no matter what's going on. Rygar and a few crazy odd-mappered games die horribly on it, but all the exsound games work and that's good enough for me.

It only seems to slow down in instances where a real NES would, i.e. in games that throw more sprites on the screen than they should.

[video_game_addict]

boxing the thing in a needlessly fancy plastic box

What's the point of the plastic box anyway, it's double the size it needs to be now if they pack it out of the cardboard box, or does it not fit inside the cardboard box beneath it?

[Necromutant]

boxing the thing in a needlessly fancy plastic box

What's the point of the plastic box anyway, it's double the size it needs to be now if they pack it out of the cardboard box, or does it not fit inside the cardboard box beneath it?

The controller, manual, av cables and ac adapter are in the box...

[calthaer]

Messiah seriously should have hired kevtris. He has already designed a custom NES clone that is perfectly compatible with all NES and Famicom games.

Does kevtris sell his clones, or has he posted his designs on the web?

[Jagasian]

Does kevtris sell his clones, or has he posted his designs on the web?

kevtris's clone is still under development, and he is currently refining the design to make it cheaper to produce. Remember, this is just a guy working out of his apartment, so these things take time, unless he got bank rolled... and then that would speed stuff up.

kevtris's FPGA NES is famous amongst the NES community. He even has a site for it (http://tripoint.org/kevtris/Projects/console/). Other members of the NES community, such as the developer of the most accurate NES emulator, Nintendulator, (and many other reputable people) have personally seen the prototype of kevtris's clone in real life. Getting pixel perfect video is one thing, but if you want to impress a NES developer, perfectly accurate audio is the kicker. Everybody claims that the FPGA NES's audio is simply perfect. If there was a NES equivalent of Jeri Ellsworth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth), it would be Kevin.

So the question remains, why not at least pay Kevin to take a once over look of their designs for the NEX? He could have immediately pointed out a few of the system's problems and quick fixes for them. I think the obvious answer is that it has allot to do with outsourcing jobs to China. Messiah had long since planned on using a NOAC and cheap Chinese labor for R&D as well as manufacturing of the system.

[coinheaven]

dont know if this has beeh posted yet:


ttp://www.playmessiah.com/onlinestore/gnex_faq-chart.htm

[slapdash]

ttp://www.playmessiah.com/onlinestore/gnex_faq-chart.htm

Try this (http://www.playmessiah.com/onlinestore/gnex_faq-chart.htm) instead (you missed the 'h' with your copy & paste).

[eggwolio]

it doesn't work at all with mickey mousecapade for me. i don't have a regular NES to test the cart, unfortunately. i got the others i was having problems with to work fine.

it does work with the power-joy cartridge.

[Jagasian]

Reviews of the NEX
http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/6
http://mister-neil.livejournal.com/196815.html
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=5956871&publicUserId=5379721
http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=698

The last reviewer (review linked below) changed his mind after hooking up a real NES to the same TV as his NEX, to do a side-by-side comparison.

To add an update here, I hooked up my old toaster NES. The colors are clearer and the sound is much stronger and more correct. I'm not sure what I was smoking trying to remember the comparisons without doing a head-to-head. The NEX is just not worth the dough. As a $25 expenditure it would be kinda neat, maybe worth $35 with the wireless, but as a NES it kinda sucks.
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/39309975/m/570005806731

Note that the NES Dev reviews open up the system and show that it in fact does use a NOAC.

[hex65000]

Well, that's just disappointing. It seems the executive summary for the Messiah v1.0 decks is: Leave em' on the shelf.

I also checked out Kevtris' site as well. That deck he's building up is fully loaded with more bells and whistles than anyone would want -- unless your'e a developer for the system or you needed to debug your own hardware. I was very impressed.

Seriously though, if you stripped out some of the debug features and backed off some of the other stuff it might be affordable to build. Starting with reducing the video support to S-video/composite only. What are you really gaining from component video on an NES? I'm also curious about his power supply. While switching supplies are very efficient, I wonder if you could split the supply using cheaper(I think), but less efficient linear regulators. I do know that some FPGAs like to have their power supplies come up in a certain order; perhaps that's the reason. Throw the USB and/or memory card support out -- or leave pads in place for the USB controller for the developer version of the unit. While a multitude of support for different sticks is reasonable, strip that stuff out and just interface strictly to NES sticks. If you want to use SMS, atari, PC, whatever, sell a separate llittle box with the PIC microcontroller in it. Lastly, the FPGA. If your'e going to produce in quantity you would probably want to use an ASIC, which I think is cheaper in quantity than the FPGA he's developing on. But that's a fixed 'hardware definition' and can't be changed after they are made.

Honestly, as far as he's gotten, it's probably more prime-time ready (hardware-wise) than these NES-on-a-chips. :|

Of course, I expect some howling on what I thought should be thrown out. As you can guess, more parts is more cost. Yank out the 'nice to haves' first and you still have a better NES than an NES. If really desirable, you could make two flavors, one that is geared towards users (most people) and a deluxe developer deck that would obviously cost a bit more.

My thoughts.

Hex.
[ The keeper of the kitties... ]

[Jagasian]

See detailed pictures and reverse-engineered schematics of the NEX here. (http://www.retrousb.com/NEX/NEX.html) Most of the stuff is for interfacing to power, video out, audio out, controller ports, two cart slots, or the built-in wireless. But the true heart of it all, the thing that makes or breaks the system, is that little NES-on-a-chip (NOAC):

http://www.retrousb.com/NEX/NEX-Images/9.jpg

How can you tell that it is a NOAC? All NOAC's have the same pin-out, so you can trace the printed circuit board's connections to their destination (cart slot pins, controller ports, video out, and audio out). There is the sweet undeniable proof.

[omnedon]

As a repair tech, I could post smoking gun pics like this on every console ever made.

Here is the PS2's fatal flaw causing DRE, and it exists to cut costs...

Here is the Xbox's's fatal flaw causing DRE, and it exists to cut costs...

Here is the DC's fatal flaw causing controller port cutout, and it exists to cut costs...

On and On and On. Of course those systems weren't developed within the community, so they don't get the special treatemnt from Jagasian. LOL

It is indeed too bad that the NEX is not more compatible than some cheaper clones. I'm disappointed too. However, I see no evidence of blatant lies abouy compatibility prior to release. I've asked for links to to such claims of dishonesty, but so far, I get no proof. Just many many many posts like the one above.

So, do you guys read the Official Xbox Magazine as well for balanced and honest reviews about Xbox games? How about frank commentary on ubiquitous Xbox disc read error, or HDD failure?

No wait, they totally leave the negative stuff out in the official company line and on sales driven sites. Imagine that. Slimy snakes in the grass!

So, do you guys read the Nintendo Power as well for balanced and honest reviews about Nintendo games? How about frank commentary on ubiquitous dead pixels on LCD's?

No wait, they totally leave the negative stuff out in the official company line and on sales driven sites. Imagine that. Slimy snakes in the grass!

So, do you guys read the Official PlayStation Magazine as well for balanced and honest reviews about Playstation games? How about frank commentary on colossally ubiquitous PS2 disc read error, or dead pixels on PSP LCD's, or wonky square buttons?

No wait, they totally leave the negative stuff out in the official company line and on sales driven sites. Imagine that. Slimy snakes in the grass!

So, do you guys read the Official Ford Motor Company website for balanced and honest reviews about Ford products? How about frank commentary on explosion prone Pintos, or blown engines on Windstars after 50000miles?

No wait, they totally leave the negative stuff out in the official company line and on sales driven sites. Imagine that. Slimy snakes in the grass!

So, do you guys read the General Motors website for balanced and honest reviews about GM products? How about frank commentary on explosion prone Chevy pickups, and ignition fires?

No wait, they totally leave the negative stuff out in the official company line and on sales driven sites. Imagine that. Slimy snakes in the grass!

So, do you guys read the Microsoft website for balanced and honest reviews about Microsoft products? How about frank commentary on colossally ubiquitous exploits in Windows, or bugs, or hardware incompatibilities?

No wait, they totally leave the negative stuff out in the official company line and on sales driven sites. Imagine that. Slimy snakes in the grass!

You are all welcome to dislike the NEX. To not buy the NEX. To recommend to others to not get an NEX. Whatever the hell you want. I really don't care.

But bitching about their PR like it is somehow different from every other company in existence, and therefore more dishonest is blatant rhetoric, and not realistic or honest in itself.

I am not calling out anyone bitching about compatibility issues with the NEX. I amm calling out those insinuating (or blatantly saying so) that the Messiah guys are crooks. Messiah is not a big company, and it's roots are right here in this community.


Some peoples perspectives here are bizarre to say the least. Heat that I cannot understand.

Why am I defending Messiah?

Is it because I am selling the consoles in Canada? Nope. NEX sales success (volume sales) have nothing to do with the community, and have everything to do with capturing the imagination of the casual gamers. This great new FPGA based console Jagasian is a huge fan and supporter of sounds great, except it likely play original carts. I cannot imagine something like that ever being sold in any game store anywhere. They can't sell it's games. The business model for that is beyond my understanding. Also NEX sales are a small sideline to what OSG does, and frankly it's success or failure will not really have any impact on OSG one way or the other.

I defend Messiah because I have spoken to both the founders, and I know that they have the most honest of intentions, and have done their best. They are gamers like us, who have tried to take their hobby to the next level. Good or bad, the consumer can decide. Vote with your money.

This 'community' eats it's own young my friends. Take a good look in the mirror.

Jagasian, while you are busy posting all over the internet, the NEX's shortcomings with fervour, you may want to point out to the person who is developing the new NES FPGA type console (that you are a big fan and supporter of) pays close attention to what is happening here. His console has the benefits of speculation and hype right now, but at some point he may actually get it made. Once that happens, he gets to answer for any compromises he makes, prices he charges, and features he puts in or leaves out, in the forum court of public opinion.

He should know that this community easily turns on it's own.

Finally....

I own and operate www.oldschoolgamer.ca. OSG is the (totally independent from Messiah) Canadian distributor for Messiah in Canada.

OSG will offer full product purchase price refunds for all UNOPENED returned NEX game consoles purchased from OSG. Opened consoles will not be refunded. OSG Canadian Pre-orders can still be cancelled prior to shipping out if pre-order customers wish.

Those who claim 'scam' or 'dishonesty' can look at that policy, and eat their words.

I have local mall based game stores CLAMOURING for these for the Christmas season, for non collector customers, who just want to play some NES games. The entire first batch is a gauranteed sell out. The community is simply not a sales factor.

If OSG does as well as I expect to with the NEX, NEX sales will represent less than 0.5% of the fiscal years sales revenue. OSG does far more business in toaster NES refurbishing, and top loader AV modding, than NEX sales can ever begin to come close to. OSG simply plans to offer both options, and the consumer can decide which option is best for them.

Vote with your money folks. Just like every other product out there.

This injection of reality into this mess brought to you by omnedon. :)

[Jagasian]

I am just providing hard facts (pictures and schematics of the inside of the NEX) to back up my previous claims that the NEX uses a common, garden variety, incompatible NOAC, which can be found in cheapy $20 clones sold at those sales huts or kiosks in your local shopping mall.

The information that Messiah provided to the public was misleading enough for many people to think that the NEX was not just another NOAC based Famiclone, that it would have improved compatibility and accuracy lacking in previous clones. You can easily search these forums as well as Messiah's site for examples of this. The truth can now be seen by everybody with a pair of eyes.

[Flack]

I have a question for Jagasian -- at what point do you stop? I think everyone who visits any forum you post on understands completely 100% what your opinion of the NEX is. So when does it stop? Just curious.

[16-bit]

I have a question for Jagasian -- at what point do you stop? I think everyone who visits any forum you post on understands completely 100% what your opinion of the NEX is. So when does it stop? Just curious.

The NEX was only released just a week or so ago. I couldn't think of a more appropriate time to rexamine the system after months of spin from either side.

[omnedon]

Agreed, a frank discussion of it's merits and flaws is the beauty of forums like this.

Unfortunately, this thread doesn't read that way, IMO.

It's good that the incompatibilities are coming to light so people can make an informed purchase.

Much like the Messiah people understandably put a positive spin on the 90%+ compatibility of the NEX, there are those posting here who are doing the opposite, with very strong negative spin, with an unusual amount of heat. The poster with the most negatove heat is a big supporter of a different technology (FPGA) type of console that he hopes to see developed.

Agendas abounds. LOL

[Jagasian]

I have a question for Jagasian -- at what point do you stop? I think everyone who visits any forum you post on understands completely 100% what your opinion of the NEX is. So when does it stop? Just curious.

Opinion? Are you serious? I am talking about facts here, not my opinion. Here is a new separate thread (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=835171) that details the lies told by Messiah, as well as some of the personal attacks against me for being a whistle blower. omnedon, is that enough proof for you? Please stop personally attacking me.

[omnedon]

I have attacked nobody. I am voicing my opinion. I will admit my respect for your opinion has lessened with your increased vitriol, and near spamming level fervour on this single topic. It's obviously close to your heart.

I'm disappointed in the NEX's shortcomings. Many are as well. Some will be satisfied with it. The word 'disappointed' does not seem to cover your enthusuaism for the topic.

I'm sorry if you feel attacked, as it was not my intent. My intent is an attempt at balancing things a bit with less vitriol, and a look at the bigger picture, like how PR works in the videogame business (or any business for that matter), and has for the last 30 years.

[Flack]

I have a question for Jagasian -- at what point do you stop? I think everyone who visits any forum you post on understands completely 100% what your opinion of the NEX is. So when does it stop? Just curious.

Opinion? Are you serious? I am talking about facts here, not my opinion. Here is a new separate thread (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=835171) that details the lies told by Messiah, as well as some of the personal attacks against me for being a whistle blower. omnedon, is that enough proof for you? Please stop personally attacking me.

I am not personally attacking anyone, although that seems to be your common response anytime anyone asks you a question. My question remains unanswered -- at what point will you be finished yelling about how much you dislike Messiah, the NEX, NOAC's, and whatever else you keep screaming about? I ask the question because it seems to me that everyone even remotely interested in the system whatsoever has heard what you have to say on the topic.

[98PaceCar]

I am just providing hard facts (pictures and schematics of the inside of the NEX) to back up my previous claims that the NEX uses a common, garden variety, incompatible NOAC, which can be found in cheapy $20 clones sold at those sales huts or kiosks in your local shopping mall.

The information that Messiah provided to the public was misleading enough for many people to think that the NEX was not just another NOAC based Famiclone, that it would have improved compatibility and accuracy lacking in previous clones. You can easily search these forums as well as Messiah's site for examples of this. The truth can now be seen by everybody with a pair of eyes.

Out of curiosity, have you examined the binary contained within this 'supposed' NOAC? You do of course realize that a lot of chips are pinout compatible without being the same chip right? While it's likely it's the same chip (very likely in fact), you have NOT proven that it's the exact same as what's in the Yobo or other Famiclones...

[fruitbane]

OK, I think this section of this discussion needs to be over. Jag, you've said your piece. I agree with the core of your posts, but even I think it's time to sit back and watch quietly for a while while everyone else discusses. The rest of you should also consider yourselves done taking pot-shots at the one man willing to stand up to the hype in here. There's more than enough material in this thread to see both sides, and any and all related sides, to this particular spat. I think it would be appropriate if everyone shook hands and moved forward.

On that note, I am disappointed with my NEX and I'm convinced if PlayMessiah had cut back a little on the fanboy manual (which must have cost an arm and a leg by itself) and on the packaging they could have spared a little more free change to maybe fix up a few of the obvious shortcomings in the NEX, like the low audio and what has occurred on my NEX (with both of my TVs): right-shifted video.

I do love the manual and packaging, but its deserving of a stronger product offering. That said, I kinda dig the crappy controller. It works really well for Zelda 2. I have it hooked up to my toaster NES right now.

As long as some games are re-released for the NEX, given the often difficult task of finding originals, and the re-releases are titles that have few problems, I still predict success for the NEX, and I wish Play Messiah luck. I just wish I hadn't spend $60 on mine and I'm debating taking them up on a refund offer I was e-mailed.

If I didn't have a toaster NES I'd probably be all over this thing with much greater fervor. Even I have to admit that the unit's shortcomings are less apparent until compared to a real toaster NES within a short span of time. And that, by itself, is something of a victory for the folks at Messiah.

[fruitbane]

Oops...

It wasn't my intent to kill discussion thoroughly...

Sorry folks...

[Teknik_SE-R]

:yipes: is the air raid over? is it safe to come out from the rubble?

[Jagasian]

:yipes: is the air raid over? is it safe to come out from the rubble?

Everytime you reply to this thread, it bumps it all the way to the top.

[fruitbane]

So, uh, I sent my NEX back today for a refund. It was a nice experiment, but given I had video output problems (display shifted right) in addition to the low audio volume it had to be done. I had the option of waiting 2-3 months for a slightly revised version or the refund. I think at this point, given that I still want to add Castlevania 3 to my game collection and I love the music from Kirby's Adventure, my only real choice is to find ways to "refurbish" my toaster NES. It's a shame it's my only good option, but oh well.

[Jagasian]

So there is going to be a second revision of the NEX? What is going to be changed? Will everybody that bought the first revision be allowed to exchange their system for the newer revision?

[Bratwurst]

http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/b/rberube/Bratwurst/HorseFucker.gif

[SoulBlazer]

"HorseFucker"? :hmm:

Please don't fix that link. We don't want to see it. :)

[nesuser2]

It seems I'm not updated on this thread any longer. After I waited quite some time, I finally received my NEX. However, the warranty seal was nearly completely ripped open and they said that was fine when I contacted them. Then I finally got to test it and almost thought I had a faulty tv. I'm not going to say it looks like garbage but it's not the best looking and with the audio to boot. When I contacted Messiah they said there would be an update in a few months. Not that it's of any use to those that already bought the console. I mean the rewards go to the buyers that don't immediately support the company.

I would turn around and just try to sell this thing but it really is pretty much junk. i mean i would hate to turn it over to somebody else and give them my headache. Any kind words anybody can offer to console me?

[exit]

I gave up hope on that thing, bit the bullet and purchased a top loader off of E-bay. If the update fixes whatever needs to be fixed, then maybe I'll purchase one and maybe sell the top loader.

[kainemaxwell]

Can't you return it for a refund?

Exit, love the avatar. I'd get a top-loader and mod it if I had the time and cash right now myself, though am happy my toaster NES is fully working again.

[dphower]

Hello all,
I just bought a Generation NEX unit at the Video Game Expo in Philadelphia, PA. I was very surprised to discover they were already available and readily bought one.

When I got home I tested the unit and played a garden variety of NES games such as Rush'N Attack, Metroid and the Legend of Zelda.

The video signal is good to very good. It's definitely comparable to the video signal on an original toaster NES using RCA cables to connect to the TV.

The big issue I experienced is the audio signal. I noticed that the "base" audio level on the Generation NEX is very low.

The test I conducted to verify this started with turning my TV on and setting it to a volume in which I could hear the TV audio loud and clear. The volume was set to five bars. I then hooked my original toaster NES unit using RCA cables and tested it at that volume. The game audio was loud and clear.

Next I hooked up the Generation NEX unit using the RCA cables supplied, and I couldn't hear the game audio at all until I turned up the volume to ten bars. This verified that the base volume is low, HOWEVER, I will concede that the audio quality at ten bars is very good to excellent. It's just ashame that the difference in the base volume is so different.

The other criticism I have is that my NEX unit was a little dirty right out of the box. It seems during the burn-in test of the unit that the persons handling it didn't wash their hands. I'm going to attempt to remove the stains with Mr. Clean's Magic Eraser and hope for the best.

Dan H.

[nesuser2]

The video quality I was talking about are what you could call two rather clear scan lines equally proportional to the top and bottom edge. It's almost a 1/4 of the way from each edge so it breaks the screen up into 4 parts...but no middle bar. And no, nobody ever offered a refund of any sort. To get the upgraded version I just assumed I had to buy it. I don't think I should have to throw a fit to get results so I'll leave it at that.

[dphower]

I agree. In fact I didn't realize that Play Messiah was offering a refund or an upgrade unit, but considering the audio issues I experienced as well as the video issues many others experiences, i think that a free refund and upgrade program is in order.

Dan H.

[exit]

Exit, love the avatar. I'd get a top-loader and mod it if I had the time and cash right now myself, though am happy my toaster NES is fully working again.

hah thanks, I made it awhile ago and just found it in my folder of forgotten pictures.

I'm tired of trying to revive my toasters, one time I had to switch one with a broken case over to another and that one eventuall stopped workig. Buying a top load seemed easier than trying to make it work again. It took me about 5 or 6 lauctions to find a BIN that had a decent price and shipping, so it all ended up good at the end.

I'd want a NEX for the ability to play Famicom games without having to do any kind of modding. Judging from what people are saying, I find it strange that all those problems weere that eaisly over looked, so I really won't keep my hopes up about the updated release.

[dphower]

If NES collectors are looking for a way to play their original japanese Famicom games I highly recommend the A/V Famicom, which is the redesigned Famicom and overseas counterpart to the NES Top Loader.

Nintendo made the A/V Famicom right. It uses RCA jacks to hook up to the TV and cartridges load from the top just like the NES Top Loader.

I found one in Japan for a good price, although I'd have to look it up since I don't recall what it was exactly. I can tell you though that it was not anywhere near $300 which is what a complete NES Top Loader sometimes goes for. It was definitely under $100.

By owning both a rebuilt NES Toaster and the A/V Famicom, it's the ideal solution since both units use RCA jacks and supports both NES cartridge libraries.

Despite the misgivings of the NEX unit, I'm going to keep mine but I have absolutely no faith that a perfect NES clone will ever exist. This is the second or third clone I bought where I was disappointed.

Dan H.

[Jagasian]

I'd want a NEX for the ability to play Famicom games without having to do any kind of modding.

You don't need to mod your toaster NES to play Famicom games. You just need a Famicom-to-NES adapter. You can find them on Ebay for around $5 to $10. Also, as I have stated numerous times before, the NEX lacks the Famicom controller port, so there are Famicom games that can't be played because you can't use the peripherial that goes with the game.

Like dphower said, if you want to play Famicom games, the best solution is an AV Famicom. The ideal Famicom/NES setup would be a version 2 AV modded top loader NES and an AV Famicom. Both consoles are so tiny, that keeping them both side-by-side hooked up to your TV shouldn't be an issue. Then you have the ideal setup for playing any Famicom or NES game. No sacrifices, except of course, money.

[marvelus10]

I nearly bought one of these too, good thing I didnt eh.
Ive been using a Tristar with my Super Nintendo to play my NES and Famicom games and so far I have had very few problems (only ones being with Camerica Gold case games sometimes they blink or roll the screen). I have no problems with my Guantlet cart or any of my Tengen carts for that matter, and further more my 43 in 1 cart has had no problems at all but in my sisters toaster it sometimes blinks.
As far as I know the Tristar is a NES on a chip as well, maybe this is a consideration for many gamers that want something a little different then the regualr toaster eh.

theres my 2 cents worth.

[kevin_psx]

http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/b/rberube/Bratwurst/HorseFucker.gif


Wht the hell is that? (Covers children's eyes) Bet the company making this NEX console will go bankrupt.

[Tanis178]

what about those FC consoles i've seen so much on ebay? anyone try one of those yet?

[Jagasian]

what about those FC consoles i've seen so much on ebay? anyone try one of those yet?

Yes. The "Neo Fami" or "Yobo" clone has game compatibility at least as good as the NEX, some say its compatibility is even better. You should make sure to get the USA version, which supports NES controllers and peripherials. However, all of these Famicom / NES clones are based on crappy NES-on-a-chips, which have inaccurate video, audio, additional glitches, and incompatible games. If you are going to waste your money on such a clone, at least minimize the amount of money you waste and get a really inexpensive clone. The Neo Fami is about mid range at $25 new and shipped. There are even cheaper clones.

If you are serious about getting a good NES system, then get a professionally refurbished and modded (lockout chip) toaster NES or get an AV modded official top loader NES, or an AV Famicom.

[Leo_A]

Too bad I'm not aware of any where to buy a professionally refurbished NES.

[nesuser2]

Well, I requested a refund on my $60 paperweight...now weighting(hehe)

And on the professionally refurbished NES. Take the thing apart yourself. It might be a maximum of 15 screws. If you can find it difficult to take apart then you might find it difficult to replace the battery to a keyless entry system. The actual replacement of the connector may call for referencing the overwhelming amount of free online material on the internet to ensure that it is done as good as it can be done but I'm sure it's not rocket science with the amount of good information on the internet. That or you could just dump the cash on a toploader, but somebody with superscientific ears will tell you about audio quality on some old 8bit game(yawn). However you can get the game to play, play it...that's all that matters. You needn't worry about quality until you're trying to see somebodies face you're slaughtering on GTA and the quality of the audio when they scream.

</RANT>

[Jagasian]

Too bad I'm not aware of any where to buy a professionally refurbished NES.

Come on. Google, Ebay, Digitpress, etc... did you even check these sources? Going from the front page of Digitpress, you can easily find classic gaming stores that sell professionally refurbished front loading toaster NES systems. Some places cost more than others, and many times they sell a complete package: system, controller, AV cables, AC power adapter, and a game. This place:
http://www.oldschoolgamer.ca/sales.aspx

Sells such a package for $68 (USD). Note that prices are listed in both USA and Canadian dollars. Also, that specific package seems a bit pricey, most likely because it comes packaged with the Messiah wireless controller, which itself costs around $30. Then if you subtract the cost of the other accessories, you will see that the shop is charging roughly $25 to $30 for a refurbished and modded original NES.

Poke around the sources listed above, and you should be able to find several other retailers that sell professionally refurbished and modded toaster NES systems.

[Leo_A]

Strange, could've sworn that he stopped selling refurbished Nes systems due to the release of the Generation Nex, maybe I'm thinking of J2Games.

Professionally refurbished would be from someone like Oldschoolgamer in my opinion, not buying a supposedly refurbished system from a message board or Ebay in my opinion. But your right, there is a source for them.

[omnedon]

OSG will never cease to service NES's, as long as OSG exists.

[Jagasian]

OSG will never cease to service NES's, as long as OSG exists.

I think that it is even more important to offer it as a product than a service. Many people don't want to be bothered with mailing a broken NES to you for fixing. They'd much prefer to buy a complete package: system, cables, power adapter, and controller. So the question is, will OSG always provide that?

[omnedon]

OSG will offer NES's as long as it is economically feasible to do so. OSG is primarily service based, and is not focused on retailing, at least at this time.

The phrase *will you always* is not an intelligently phrased question. Unless of course you are looking for some obscure technicality to use against someone in the future. I get the sense that you have no idea how a business is run, in the way you phrase questions, and in the way you regard businesses in general.


I think that it is even more important to offer it as a product than a service. Many people don't want to be bothered with mailing a broken NES to you for fixing. They'd much prefer to buy a complete package: system, cables, power adapter, and controller. So the question is, will OSG always provide that?


Open your own business and give it a go. I anxiously anticipate seeing how someone who obviously thinks he knows what is best for the community and for business in general will do with the opportunity. Or you could just sit back and throw rocks. That's easier. Only you knowif you can do more than that. All I've seen is rocks.

I feel no need to engage in conversation with you any further.

[Jagasian]

I feel no need to engage in conversation with you any further.

Chill out. I am sorry that I hurt your feelings when I pointed out that people were lying/covering up the issues with the NEX gaming system and the fact that it indeed did use a NOAC and was incompatible with popular NES games. I am surprised at how many people took that personally. Notice how I am not the one throwing personal insults?

[nesuser2]

Just a small update here. I sent my console back for a refund in early december and I have received nothing from them. Every time I contact them, they say they are on vacation or trying to catch up, haven't looked at my package yet....etc.....etc.....So anyways, If you have one..you may as well hold onto it. It's a cute paperweight instead of sending it back to let somebody walk off with your console and your money.

[omnedon]

Call NubyTech in California. I don't have the number in front of me, but if you PM me, I can get it for you.


I do not work for Nubytech.

[nesuser2]

Well, it seems that they did come through today on the refund. They received my console on the 17th of December so I guess one month turn around isn't that bad.... :roll: Also noteworthy that they didn't refund through paypal, they just sent the money back so we both had to eat the fees but I'll run with the money I did get back.

[omnedon]

Good of you to clarify.

[rbudrick]

If they didn't go through Paypal, what did they do, send a check?

-Rob

[nesuser2]

If they didn't go through Paypal, what did they do, send a check?

-Rob

They did go through paypal but I'm just saying they didn't refund. When somebody pays you there is a refund option. It's like they erase the payment because.......for instance. They would have taken $57.xx from messiah's account and put $59.99 back in mine. This way, they don't have to eat those fees and I don't incur new ones on the return payment.

[DreamTR]

PayPal only allows refunds within 60 days IIRC.

[nesuser2]

PayPal only allows refunds within 60 days IIRC.

Thanks for the tip...I stand corrected.