Golden NWC cart:real value of it

[sivarto]

edit double post

[sivarto]

I rememebr Kizuna encounter was on ebay once years ago but then the seller pulled it out since the starting bid of $10000 was too low and he got 3 people competing each others to get it.
Lastly it was sold for $12500 or more if I remember correctly.

*****But then again my point is very simple:*****
going by Buyatari's reasoning:
-if you want a Kizuna is now a seller market
-since last one sold for $12500,correct going price now is $36000 or 40000(keeping in mind now "supposed" price of gold carts that sold for $4000 would be $12000 or more and making the proportion)

That is NOT correct as I tried to say for all this long thread..I would say it safe to say you can maybe pay more than $12500 if you want a Kizuna,even $15000 maybe but not 3 times the original price!
And that applies to NWC gold carts as well IN MY OPINION.

[kraboomba]

Reading the information about how the gold rockman 4 was given out as a contest prize for robot design.
Did the winners of the design a robot for megaman 6 get anything like that?

Lance

[jajaja]

Reading the information about how the gold rockman 4 was given out as a contest prize for robot design.
Did the winners of the design a robot for megaman 6 get anything like that?

Lance

I posted a link in a earlier thread here:

http://www.video-fenky.com/archives/000176.html

It says that a guy got a clock for making Tomahawk Man for Rockman 6. Thats a big diffrence hehe. Guess they didnt think about that the Rockman 4 gold cart would be worth so much in the future.

[Buyatari]

NeoGeo is not the same as NES. You might have to sit back and actually listen for this to make any sence to you. Lets think about people who collect $1 bills and $100 bills for a second.

The last licensed NES game was sold in what 1991? The last Neo Geo was not that long ago. Someone who cares about Neo Geo will have to tell me. The avg selling price of a NES game the last few years they were sold was what? If I was being generous we could say between $30-$60 possibly. The avg Neo Geo game was sold for how much ? $400? $600?

Someone will have to give us better numbers on the Neo Geo but the math can be redone with those numbers and the point will remain the same. That is that for the most part neo geo value is in the "fair use" of the cartridge.

Now even though the NWC was never sold at the time it was given away it had a value of say $40 or $50. Possibly cheaper since it wasn't a very long game but we can stick with $50. If the value now is $5000 it has gone up 100 times.

The value of KE is what? 10k? 15k? If the average price during the last few years Neo Geo games were sold was $500 then the KE is worth 30 times that.

People who pay $400 or $500 for a NeoGeo game often do it to play the game. They don't throw it out after they are done hell they paid $400 or $500 bucks but in my eyes they aren't the collectors the NES collectors are. The system was supported much longer and so there are more gamers paying $400 or $500 for a Neo Geo game. On the NES the gamers do not buy the $400 or $500 games they buy the $1 to $5 games. Since we are talking about collectable value lets remove the casual gamer and look only at the collector.

Ok the next thing you have to understand about collectables is the myth of supply and demand. It still holds true to some degree but supply can't stand up to demand. Many collectors over value supply and don't give enough credit to supply. Demand kicks supplys ass over the long haul.

If we look to hobbies that have had more time to develop the point in much more clear. In comic book collecting grab an overstreet guide and look at the top 20 or 50 higest priced comics. Every year they do this the post the higest priced comic books. Action #1 (first superman) is considered the most valuable yet it is not the rarest. It is not a character the public is unaware of. He has universal appeal. I bought old price guides going back as far as I could and many of the valuable comics were rare ones which did not appeciate in value at the same rate as those of characters we know today.

KE is an expensive if overpriced game. It may be more expensive than NWC right now. However it won't be in the future. The NWC is a greater holy grail than KE for several reasons.

1. Its on the NES.

1a. Many people collect for the NES this number increases daily at a rate greater than any system I've seen over the past 5 years.

1b. Nintendo still makes games and systems. People of tomorrow have something to connect with. When Mario 35 is out or when he has his 100th birthday people will look back to the first system with a much stronger desire to own it than a Neo Geo. A mint NES system will sell for more than a mint Neo Geo.

2. Its the hardest game to find for the NES.

Few games for the NES are hard to locate. Most collectors just starting out can gather up all but 20 games in under a year. They often feel the desire to complete the set if they can afford to do so. Same could be said for KE but there will be more collectors collecting NES.

3. It is a MARIO game.

yep. The rarest Mario game. There will be many Mario collectors in the future. There are some now but none of the other Mario collectables will be this treasured. As a bonus it has tetris too.

4. It was part of an event.

One which music lovers might compare to Woodstock. Only they went on tour across America so all could participate. Even the kids whos parents wouldn't let them go have a longing desire to collect all the parts from this tournament. If I'm not wrong they were in Canada as well.

5. As a result of the other points it has a story.

Like the Horus Wagner card in baseball card collecting it has a story why its rare that the average non gamer would listen to. Its not just a rare cart. Its part of an event on the first Nintendo that has Mario that was given away for free and now its worth all this money. There will come a time when the general population will have just as much a vauge knowledge of NWC as they do Action #1 and the t206 Wagner card.

For these reasons I think it blows away the competition. The cart is undervalued when compared to other holy grails. Most holy grails are the result of 2 or 3 guys fighting for bragging rights. As prices increase with time and flee markets dry up new collectors won't be able to buy all the games from a given system. They will have to pick and choose. KE isn't really a desired game unless its the only one you need to complete a set. As a new collector if you can only afford to buy 10 games you wouldn't pick this one. NWC is a must have for any Mario collector, Nintendo collector and yes any Video Game collector. So while the current price may not reflect it........

It is the GREATEST holy grail in all of video game collecting.

[Buyatari]

(sigh) You may have to collect for longer than a year or two for all I saying to sink in. You fail to understand anything anyone has said that wasn't your opinion to begin with.


I rememebr Kizuna encounter was on ebay once years ago but then the seller pulled it out since the starting bid of $10000 was too low and he got 3 people competing each others to get it.
Lastly it was sold for $12500 or more if I remember correctly.

*****But then again my point is very simple:*****
going by Buyatari's reasoning:
-if you want a Kizuna is now a seller market
-since last one sold for $12500,correct going price now is $36000 or 40000(keeping in mind now "supposed" price of gold carts that sold for $4000 would be $12000 or more and making the proportion)

That is NOT correct as I tried to say for all this long thread..I would say it safe to say you can maybe pay more than $12500 if you want a Kizuna,even $15000 maybe but not 3 times the original price!
And that applies to NWC gold carts as well IN MY OPINION.

[kraboomba]

Reading the information about how the gold rockman 4 was given out as a contest prize for robot design.
Did the winners of the design a robot for megaman 6 get anything like that?

Lance

I posted a link in a earlier thread here:

http://www.video-fenky.com/archives/000176.html

It says that a guy got a clock for making Tomahawk Man for Rockman 6. Thats a big diffrence hehe. Guess they didnt think about that the Rockman 4 gold cart would be worth so much in the future.


thanks
I must of missed that link.

Lance

[sivarto]

As a new collector if you can only afford to buy 10 games you wouldn't pick this one. NWC is a must have for any Mario collector, Nintendo collector and yes any Video Game collector. So while the current price may not reflect it........

It is the GREATEST holy grail in all of video game collecting.

Here is where clearly your reasoning is flawed.
NES collectors are a FRACTION of all collectors and the same can be said for nintendo collectors.
The same can be put down as well for mario collectors.
Again,you fail to see the whole picture.

Yeah Nintendo has a story and all that.
The same same can be said,even more,for SNK and its arcade-home gaming experience.

Neo geo lasted more than nes and SNK playmore still develops major neo geo franchises on other platforms.

Neo-geo.com hs almost as many mmbers as this board.
Neo geo fans are increasing every year as well.
More people worldwide played in the arcades with a neo geo than people at home with mario and a nes.

I have been collecting for more than 7 years now and here I can perfectly see the difference between you and Dreamtr,ROB and other expert collectors,just to say one.
While I got many useful info and quotes,from you I got just a piece of pure speculation and a sad try to boost your sale.

Yeah,the holy grail of all videogame collectors :roll:

Why don't you just realize you made a good investment and be happy about it,instead of drawing the nes as the whole videogame collecting scene and totally failing to see the whole videogame collecting world?

[sivarto]

edit

[Adol]

I disagree with you,buyatari.

You're thinking as a NES collector,and you're speaking about the future.

RIGHT NOW,today,if the Gold NWC cart is on Ebay,it'll sell for XXXX$ ( maybe XXXXX$ :)

That means 1 guy would be ok to pay that amount for NWC Gold cart.

For that very same amount,i bet i'll find 5 guys ready to buy Kizuna Encounter

MUCH people will buy Kizuna Encounter more than Gold NWC cart for the same price...because MORE people is interested!

Kizuna Encounter is RARER,LESS produced,LESS seen on Ebay or anywhere else than Gold NWC Cart,and is worth MORE!

--> Then,logically, Kizuna Encounter is the holy grail of video game collecting then :)

[Bronty-2]

Ehh. An argument can be made for either side. Buyatari has good points but the cart really only would have appeal to north americans, I agree with adol and sivarto there. If I'm from brazil or japan why the fuck would I care about a contest in north america? I wouldn't.

Also, the point about neo geo guys spending 500 on a cart just shows that they have deep pockets.

This whole thread is pointless IMO. Call it between 5 and 10k. You're not going to find any hard facts to point otherwise because there have been no recent hard sales. Offers and speculation don't count. I can think of many times deals I never thought would fall through did. Until someone coughs up the big cash for real it's all fantasyland.

Yes rare NES stuff has gone up a lot lately, but then again there is a big difference between something going from 100 to 500 (cheetahmen) and something going from 3k to 15k. It's a hell of a lot easier to realize the large multiple on a smaller absolute sale.

If someone does cough up 15k now for a gold nwc they're fucking stupid anyway. Sure it will always go up but so will the other rare items you could buy with the same money if you pick right. You could do better right now, today, with 15k spent elsewhere in my opinion. 15k is big league money and for it to be worth it today, you'd have to be getting $XXX K in ten/twenty/thirty years to be worth it. Could it happen? Sure, but it's a significant risk... especially when those carts aren't even going to work in 30 years from what I hear.

[Bratwurst]

Sure, but it's a significant risk... especially when those carts aren't even going to work in 30 years from what I hear.

Is it true that the majority of the NWC owning crowd was vehemently opposed to the cart getting dumped when such a thing would make repair feasible when the inevitable happened?

[jajaja]

Sure, but it's a significant risk... especially when those carts aren't even going to work in 30 years from what I hear.

Is it true that the majority of the NWC owning crowd was vehemently opposed to the cart getting dumped when such a thing would make repair feasible when the inevitable happened?

The NWC cart is already dumped a long time ago :) Problem is to make a repro, or atleast no one have done it what i know. About repair, i guess it should be possible some how.

[sivarto]

Ehh. An argument can be made for either side. Buyatari has good points but the cart really only would have appeal to north americans, I agree with adol and sivarto there. If I'm from brazil or japan why the fuck would I care about a contest in north america? I wouldn't.

Also, the point about neo geo guys spending 500 on a cart just shows that they have deep pockets.

This whole thread is pointless IMO. Call it between 5 and 10k. You're not going to find any hard facts to point otherwise because there have been no recent hard sales. Offers and speculation don't count. I can think of many times deals I never thought would fall through did. Until someone coughs up the big cash for real it's all fantasyland.

Yes rare NES stuff has gone up a lot lately, but then again there is a big difference between something going from 100 to 500 (cheetahmen) and something going from 3k to 15k. It's a hell of a lot easier to realize the large multiple on a smaller absolute sale.

If someone does cough up 15k now for a gold nwc they're fucking stupid anyway. Sure it will always go up but so will the other rare items you could buy with the same money if you pick right. You could do better right now, today, with 15k spent elsewhere in my opinion. 15k is big league money and for it to be worth it today, you'd have to be getting $XXX K in ten/twenty/thirty years to be worth it. Could it happen? Sure, but it's a significant risk... especially when those carts aren't even going to work in 30 years from what I hear.

Words of wisdom.
Really.
I'm really glad not all the posters here are nes fanboys and can see the whole picture.

[Adol]

Correct.
Gold NWC is the holy grail for NES fans (let's say world NES fans,not only US/NTSC)

But it is definately not the holy grail of video game collecting (and for me Kizuna Encounter isn't either)

You can argue what's the holy grail of each video game system,but comparing 1 to another is just stupid,in my opinion.

For PC Engine lovers,we'll pay an arm for getting Strider or Galaxy Force 2 Supergrafx,which were supposed to exist, and finally never appeared.

For Saturn fans,it's Sonic Extreme

and so on..

[sivarto]

Correct.
Gold NWC is the holy grail for NES fans (let's say world NES fans,not only US/NTSC)

..

The problem in my opinion is that the NWC carts(grey or golden) have a relative appeal.

I mean,like already expressed,if you are from Europe,Asia,Japan and so on,you won't care too much bout a contest you never was a part of or really followed.

Also,another point:DreamTR explained us he was part of the contest and you can totally understand why the cart has a spcial value to him.

But then again,most of the collectors worldwide will be busy tracking down all the official releases before trying to track down prize items or prototypes for the nes-or most could just stick to official relased games and play mario on the nes in his official form.

Summing it up I just think it is not totally correct to compare official released games with prize items or similia.
You should put those in the same league of protos,special event items and so on:that would be a more fair comparison.

[Adol]

Correct

and in the "commercial release" category,Kizuna Encounter is the clear winner ( along with Ultimate 11 )

For prize items/hibahin games (hibaihin meaning not for sale)...there is a LOT of them in Japan,here is some valuable ones to name a few:

Rockman 4 Gold Cart for Famicom

Kunio Kun Dodgeball Tournament Special SFC cart (wih special plate)

PC Engine:Yukai Dochuuki Anniversary Gold Hucard
Power League Gold Hucard


prototypes/unreleased games is another story too...

[sivarto]

A mint NES system will sell for more than a mint Neo Geo.

.

This is another heavy and questionable sentence.

[Buyatari]

I'm really glad not all the posters here are nes fanboys and can see the whole picture.

Good point. Whats next your momma jokes?


This is another heavy and questionable sentence.

And I've made them before. Only to have someone quote it years later when it happens.

Anyway here is a thread I started back when I was the mod of buying and sellimg back in 2003 maybe it needs an update.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25240

[Buyatari]

Air Raid (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8283321523)

Whats your guess on this one? I think its time we updated the list.

[sivarto]

I'm really glad not all the posters here are nes fanboys and can see the whole picture.

Good point. Whats next your momma jokes?

[http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25240

That's the kind of reply I would expect from a childish attitude like you had in this thread.
Great.

And the list you made is not correct nor updated to begin with.
kizuna encounter was never sold for $8000 but for 10000 euros and then(after 1 or 2 years) $12500+shipping and that happened when the NCW gold cart made $3000++ on ebay.
Ultimate 11 was sold 3 years ago for $8000++.

[DreamTR]

After reading the last two pages of responses, I have to make a couple more points about this.

Anyone that knows me understands I collect for more than just one system as much as I possibly can, however, the NES is my FAVORITE system by far, but I am not biased towards it and can see things from an open point of view.

Sivarto: AS for the Neo Geo having this very long life expectancy, you have to understand something, that system was ALWAYS geared towards hardcore fans. It has NEVER sold through the roof in ANY aspect whatsoever. It is overpriced for what it is, and as fun as the games are to play, there were always problems selling 500-2000 carts it seemed for ANY new title.

Any time you have those type of small production numbers, saying that the system lasted longer than the NES is a farce. The NES sold tens of millions of copies worldwide, and the Mario series is obscenely popular, dare I say more popular than anything video game related ever created.

SNKPlaymore can't sell games even at budget prices for the XBOX and PS2 these days. The company is very small, and can not be compared to Nintendo even in the same breath.

30 cities for a multimillion dollar tournament that even has a MOVIE called The Wizard nearly tying in everything. That 1990 event was a mecca that will never have the same feeling. Nintendo at its finest moment. The Neo Geo should not even be mentioned in the same BREATH as the NES.

Now, we are talking about VALUES and HOLY GRAILS here, not the NES over the NEO GEO.

I have read that not many collectors "care" about a North American contest for the NWC.

I beg to differ. Two of my GOLD NWCS went to collectors in Norway and Holland. Another gray was in Norway a few years back as well. Europeans are fully aware of the NES, and one of most respected sites about the NES is from a gentleman in Denmark. I also know that Japanese are very interested in this game, as they are fully aware of different NES games only released in the USA, and pay decent money for those on Yahoo Auctions in Japan.

Now as for Kizuna Encounter, I respect the fact that the value of the game is very high. HOWEVER, essentially collectors are paying for an insert and manual only. The Japanese version of the game is 100% similar in every aspect. You plug the game in a US system, and bingo. This is also a very limited European release, and the history on that is somewhat sketchy since only four of these are known to exist?

I also beg to differ that more people are interested in Kizuna Encounter. That $12000 price to a collector in Vegas was only over a year and a half ago. The gold NWC offer for $15000 was TURNED DOWN IIRC, and I honestly think that the one person trying to sell it for $8000 should talk to the 15K guy and come up with a deal. I have no doubt in my mind that game would hit $6000 on eBay right now, but anything above that might be stretching it because it also depends on who is watching the auction, etc.

It's difficult to argue what game really is the ultimate "holy grail" in terms of value, but the NWC is real, it's not going away, and it's definitely more "famous" than a non popular European insert/manual released Neo Geo game for one thing.

My overall point is this, I respect the value of KE Euro, and it is worth more than the NWC at this moment (gold), but it's one of those "sketchy" holy grails that I would definitely sway from because the money is not worth it considering what it is.

This also goes for a game such as Air Raid, where some Atari aficionados vehemently defend the game because some have popped up in America, but I've seen Brazilian bootlegs for many systems pop up here left and right. MEN-A-VISION? Similar to Brazilian companies with the "vision" name? Come on. At the very least, someone needs to locate the box for this supposed US release that "might" exist. I am sure even if it did, it's a prototype from a company that was "thinking" of releasing it or something.

Even though the Blockbuster Genesis cart is rarer than both Kizuna and NWC, does anyone care? Rarity and demand are two different things. NWC is Radiant Silvergun, and Blockbuster is No Escape for SNES in this case. I'm sure there are far less No Escapes than Radiant Silverguns out there, but who is going to pay the bucks for something no one wants?

Mario wins in this case I hate to say it. I see everyone's points, but the NWC is much more vaunted than the others in this case, regardless of the value.

[jajaja]

Two of my GOLD NWCS went to collectors in Norway and Holland. Another gray was in Norway a few years back as well

Hey thats pretty cool :) I know about the dutch guy (i guess there is only one) who owns a gold NWC cart, but not a guy from Norway. Cool to know :)

[sivarto]

DreamTR:
I enjoyed your reply and try to explain better what I tried to convey.

1)YES;neo geo was geared towards hardcore collectors but it is the neo geo ARCADE system we are talking about.
MVS,i.e.

MVS neo geo games were and are loved WORLDWIDE and more than the nes for sure.
Now,given the fact on neo geo home console you can have the same games and now they are even more affordable by new collectors,that gives you the idea.
More and more people who played in the arcades the neo geo will grow up and will love to own the REAL DEAL they played in the arcades(metal slug,turf masters and so on).

2)Kizuna encounter is an offcial release and closes a circle and complete a US/Euro collection.
Neo geo library is only 120 or so titles and that's the power of it:collectors CAN actually aim to get a complete collection.
As for the nes,there are so many games out there,many collectors will sure be busy buying more games than hunting down a prize item(and you can play mario on a normal NES cart-not painted gold color- anyway to flip the argumenet Kizuna is only a piece of paper and a manual)

3) I sure believe you sold the carts to collectots outside US but then again very few will have interest in an item like that,especially if they were not part of the contest.
It does not complete any NES collection as well,since it is more a premium item.

i don't own any holy grail myself but I do know that the value of those will be affected by many factors in the future:the desire to have a complete library for a console(all in US ir jap form,depending on the preference) is ALWAYS one of the most important factor to consider.

And not forget that when Kizuna sold for $12500,NWC barely fetched $4000 on ebay...and Buyatari wrote he paid his about same amount at the same time.
So fluctuation could apply to both,but I wouldn't be that sure the NWC cart is the right pick,especially looking at the past 5 years....the past almost always gives us a better key to understand the future.

[sivarto]

Another important point DreamTR we keep on missing and Jajaja brought up:

Most of the nes collectors know that most of the nes games are cheap games,while on the other hand,neo geo games were expensive from release.
In other words,rarity on the nes will be always in keeping with its market and games price range,meaning that even super rare nes things could be relatively cheap compared to to other grails.

You tell me mario wins and more people love Mario...yeah but the gold carts fetched relatively low amounts compared to other grails at the very same time of other sales as said.
(we are talking 2002-2003 circa when alos kizuna sold last time and so U 11): and all that probably due to the cheap nature of the normal nes market.

[Bronty-2]

I think all dreamtr is trying to say is that although KE is worth more now, the gold nwc has a brighter future, which I agree with. Personally I'm not a big fan of collecting premiums/prizes etc - I like commercially released stuff, so to me a gold nwc just isn't worth (nor is KE for that matter). But I do think that over time, in twenty years or whatever, gold nwc will 'win.' Even though I'm not a fan of it, it seems to have captured enough hearts and minds for it to be a serious contender. But until the big sales happen they are speculation.

Personally, I have my own vg grail and that's all I care about... now I just need to find one!

PS it will be interesting to see how that air raid does now that some people (?) consider it a bootleg..

[Buyatari]

I really think the Neo Geo is over priced right now. The system has yet to bottom out. Most systems bottom out when the casual gamer sells off his collection or just stops buying it in favor of a new system. This may not affect the rarest games, that will depend. It didn't affect the rarest 2600 titles but it affected all the titles on say the Sega Master System.

Even if the rarest Neo Geo games don't fall in value I can't see them rising at the same rate as the rarest NES. Neo Geo has a big fanbase but there just aren't as many potential new collectors. I could be wrong but I don't see many 12 or 13 year old kids wanting a Neo Geo t-shirt to go along with the Neo Geo Controller belt buckel to be kewl.

In any hobby it isn't the old established collector who will determine the value of things in the future. Its the new collector just jumping in. If there aren't enough new collectors the price usually drops.

Getting back the NWC. The NWC has universal appeal because its the rarest Mario cart and there isn't gamer out there in any country who doesn't know who Mario is. No they might not all know about the cart yet but they will. Its hard for a collector not to notice any holy grail that sells for 4 digits.

I am not a close minded fanboy. I own many more holy grails of the Atari 2600 than I do the NES. The Atari for all its history just doesn't have "legs". The company is gone and there aren't future systems which will create new collectors of the old system. If you can point out another game which will increase in demand at a greater rate then the NWC I'll go out and buy that one too. I do like that Megaman cart. I don't know if Megaman will be around 10,20 or 50 years from now but that is a kick ass cart.

[anagrama]

It didn't affect the rarest 2600 titles but it affected all the titles on say the Sega Master System.

Quick comment here - I'm not sure how prices are in the US, but the top worldwide SMS rarities have been pulling in their highest ever prices over the past year or so - sure, the common/uncommon stuff has dropped, but the likes of Smurfs 2, Mah-Jong, Mickey's Ultimate Challenge or Ecco 2 are consistently edging upwards each time they appear on eBay.

[Buyatari]

I didn't come up with any of those Neo Geo prices. It was an open thread and I went on what the bigger Neo Geo collectors agreed upon at that time. It was a poll of general opinion as to the agreed upon price of a game. Therefore, it can not be wrong , unless you misunderstand was it is. It is a general concensus of the price of those games at that given time by a dedicated group of hard core collectors.

It should also be noted that the prices of those carts were agreed upon with consideration to sales at the time. While the current sales of the time were noted and did affect the price of the games they did not dictate the agreed upon value in most cases. No more so than if I had sold the NWC for 15k would all collectors then agree it had a value of 15k. Though most would agree the price had gone up had I sold it.



And the list you made is not correct nor updated to begin with.
kizuna encounter was never sold for $8000 but for 10000 euros and then(after 1 or 2 years) $12500+shipping and that happened when the NCW gold cart made $3000++ on ebay.
Ultimate 11 was sold 3 years ago for $8000++.

[Buyatari]

Quick comment here - I'm not sure how prices are in the US, but the top worldwide SMS rarities have been pulling in their highest ever prices over the past year or so - sure, the common/uncommon stuff has dropped, but the likes of Smurfs 2, Mah-Jong, Mickey's Ultimate Challenge or Ecco 2 are consistently edging upwards each time they appear on eBay.

I wasn't aware of that. The US carts all seem to be in the dumper right now. Have these carts you mention gone up alot in the past few years? What would you sale the value is on these titles at the current moment?

[Bronty-2]

Adam -

Jason is right - you and sivarto should get your buyer and his seller together and split the difference as a commission. You'll both make some money and we'll find out pretty quick how serious the buyers were.

[Buyatari]

Personally, I have my own vg grail and that's all I care about... now I just need to find one!

Whats that? A sealed Staidum Events?


PS it will be interesting to see how that air raid does now that some people (?) consider it a bootleg..

I think it will go down slowly at first. There will be more of these poping up in the future. The unique case design was expensive to produce. So I don't think they made only 50 of them. I think the only reason it is rare is due to its orgin and most of them being in other countries (for now). It is still a cool looking cart but like the Beagle Bros carts did these carts are due for a fall.

[Bronty-2]

You guessed it, yep. The sad part is there was actually a copy on ebay before I started collecting and it only went for 800... would be a lot more now. :(

[Buyatari]

Adam -

Jason is right - you and sivarto should get your buyer and his seller together and split the difference as a commission. You'll both make some money and we'll find out pretty quick how serious the buyers were.

Who on the boards offered 12k? Cruzway? The guy who offered 15k was a Wacky packs and GPK original artwork collector. I'll have to see if I still have his email.

[Bronty-2]

eric roberts? Dude if it's him he has BAGS of money. He's the son of one of the richest men in america (billionaire).

[sivarto]

I didn't come up with any of those Neo Geo prices. It was an open thread and I went on what the bigger Neo Geo collectors agreed upon at that time. It was a poll of general opinion as to the agreed upon price of a game. Therefore, it can not be wrong , unless you misunderstand was it is. It is a general concensus of the price of those games at that given time by a dedicated group of hard core collectors.

It should also be noted that the prices of those carts were agreed upon with consideration to sales at the time. While the current sales of the time were noted and did affect the price of the games they did not dictate the agreed upon value in most cases. No more so than if I had sold the NWC for 15k would all collectors then agree it had a value of 15k. Though most would agree the price had gone up had I sold it.




This reason could apply when you have multiple copies or sales and can be see an average value and collectors can agree "upon".(like gold NWC and other titles in the list).

But as far as I know only 2 of the very few copies were sold in teh last 3 years and both sold for quite similar amounts(one for 10000 euros-about $11000 and the last for $12500+).



Anyway, mY personal holy grail still remains darxide:I still need to complete my 32X collection but every time it pops up on ebay complete it goes for more.
last one on ebay UK closed for 1000GBP or more.
That's crazy and still is a 32x game.
BTW DreamTR I think I have read you got one darxide in your collection.

[Bronty-2]

Yeah, cruzway.

[anagrama]

I wasn't aware of that. The US carts all seem to be in the dumper right now. Have these carts you mention gone up alot in the past few years? What would you sale the value is on these titles at the current moment?

Smurfs 2, probably the best-known SMS rarity, has had a couple of recent sales around the £200 (~$370) mark, one on eBay and one off.
These days, Mah-Jong is recognised as being probably the rarest worldwide official SMS cart (not counting Japanese/Jorean titles), and the one on eBay last year (first complete copy on open auction for at least 2-3 years) made something like £350 (~$650).
The rarer TecToy titles like Mickey's Ultimate Challenge, Ecco 2 & Ariel are all a bit lower, but will reliably break $100 complete.
There's also the "US" version of Sonic that has broken $300 before now, despite only the UPC sticker on it differering from the $2 Euro version.

Granted, it's all small-fish compared to the big-league NES games, but they're all well up compared to a couple of years back.

[anagrama]

Anyway, mY personal holy grail still remains darxide:I still need to complete my 32X collection but every time it pops up on ebay complete it goes for more.
last one on ebay UK closed for 1000GBP or more.
That's crazy and still is a 32x game.


I wouldn't be surprised if it does in the future, but I've never seen DarXide break £1000 yet - there was a £750 (~$1400) sale for a complete one via neogeo.com, and £699 (~1300) for box/cart copy on eBay/vga last year.

[sivarto]

IIn any hobby it isn't the old established collector who will determine the value of things in the future. Its the new collector just jumping in. If there aren't enough new collectors the price usually drops.



See,your reasoning by drastic sentences and no doubts.
That can be a very big risk since reality is way more complex and articulated of what you think.

I 'll explain it further.
Take vintage toys,MEGO action figures for example.
They can sell for $20000 or even more with people fighting to get the rarest figurines.
And there is NO track at all of new megos on the market,NOR the new generations care at all since videogames are getting the upper hand over toys.
The established collectors got older and even put more money in thier hobby which reminds them thier childhood.

SAME can(and probably will) EASY happen for the neo geo: the neo geo is NOt an home console like NES, ATARI and so on.
It is ARCADE EXPERIENCE,pure arcade action at home.
It was/is that for a whole generation of gamers WORLDWIDE.
So,even if in the future new generations will not know anything about the neo,it still will be the FERRARI of the 2d consoles,gathering all serious and rich arcade games collectors.

There are mutiple criteria to factor in when thinking about the future prices of collectibles and,like in the vintage toys,vintage videogames will have always OLDER collectors ready to spend more to recall and live their childhood.
And if you think neo geo is loved in all the arcades of the world..you can do the math.

[sivarto]

I still wish to get a mint darxide for a decent price BTW...hopefully...and finally I will have my 32x collection complete.

[DreamTR]

Sivarto: A few things..it was a year and a half ago that Kizuna fetched $12,500 on eBay. It was 3 years before that when BuyAtari purchased his gold NWC for $4000. At that same time, I sold a gold one for $6500.

Also, Neo Geo system the "Ferrari" of video game systems??? Maybe in 1990. It's more speciality than quality to be quit honest.

YOu wrote this:
"MVS neo geo games were and are loved WORLDWIDE and more than the nes for sure."

You really have to be kidding me...The Famicom and NES are immensely popular.....The MVS system should not even be mentioned in the same BREATH as the NES. If the MVS games were loved THAT much, they would have sold better THEN and NOW. Simple facts.

AS far as the arcade, there are more and more CPS2 and CPS3 collectors nowadays than Neo Geo collectors....Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat were king during Neo Geo's "reign" if you call it, but they still did not stand up to Capcom titles at the time, no matter how hard they tried ti implement cool features.

Fact of the matter is, you DON'T need Kizuna Encounter, or Ultimate 11 to complete a Neo Geo collection for US released games. If you are collecting European, sure, that's your call if you want to spend $25000 on two inserts and manuals, but I am fine with Japanese versions of those, AND my US Neo Geo collection the way it is.

As far as Darxide, It was sealed when I received it 5-6 years ago, and I opened it to check the contents since I had never seen anything like it before at the time.

[sivarto]

YOu wrote this:
"MVS neo geo games were and are loved WORLDWIDE and more than the nes for sure."

You really have to be kidding me...The Famicom and NES are immensely popular.....The MVS system should not even be mentioned in the same BREATH as the NES. If the MVS games were loved THAT much, they would have sold better THEN and NOW. Simple facts.

.

I never said the MVS "sold" more.
It is a totally different concept that powers up the neo geo compared to other home consoles.
Neo geo was in the arcades all over the world and billions of people could and can enjoy with just ONE COIN the joy to play metal slug,turf masters or any king of fighters chapter.
Not to mention arcade classic like nam 75 ,or great releases like garou mark of the wolves.

All those worldwide gamers are much more than gamers than bought and played a nes,sure thing(consider that the nes was a flop in many european countries just to say one)
And you can bet that out of all those neo geo arcade players,a good fraction of them will buy a neo geo to relive their childhood.

Also,just to be specific:
Buyatari bought his gold cart earlier than the last kizuna sold,fine.
But about the same time the last Kizuna was sold(or few month earlier but it is circa that) a gold cart ended on ebay for barely $4000(let's say about 2 years ago,I remember it pretty well since I followed the auction).
We can even say there is quite a continuity between what Buyatari paid and the last one on Ebay,price wise.


Congrats on the darxide,I have heard it is even a pretty good game.

[aaronpetrosky]

This has been a great read. You learn something new everyday.

[Buyatari]

http://www.triksr4kids.com

Well I contacted the collector Bronty thinks this is. I don't think this is him. I have an original GPK artwork and the person who made me the offer knew I had it. The collector Bronty pointed me to looks like more of a Wacky Pack collector I didn't see anything to do with GPK. This is what I wrote him. We shall see if anything happens.


During the last 10 cent auction day on ebay I ran an auction for the NWC cart with a 20k BIN price. I was IMed by a collector who said he collected Wacky Pack artwork and GPK artwork. He offered me 15k and I turned him down. I don't think this person was you but I thought you might know who it was. Another videogame collector is selling his NWC cart and I told this collector I would at least make an attempt to find the person who made me the offer.

Thank you for your time. You have an amazing collection.

Adam

[Buyatari]

I 'll explain it further.
Take vintage toys,MEGO action figures for example.
They can sell for $20000 or even more with people fighting to get the rarest figurines.
And there is NO track at all of new megos on the market,NOR the new generations care at all since videogames are getting the upper hand over toys.
The established collectors got older and even put more money in thier hobby which reminds them thier childhood.

There is a track to the new collector. Superman Batman Hulk Spiderman etc. He gets a few and then enjoys them enough to try to collect them all. Even if he doesn't recall the product.

Now if there was a toy line at the same time as Mego dolls say XYZ company whos characters were not recognizable by todays youth then I feel the dolls would not do as well overtime as the new fans would be more likly to be attracted to Mego than XYZ.

Mego does have some kick ass toys. I had Green Goblin and Iron Man as a kid.

[Buyatari]

Man that was quick


Hi Adam,
Thanks for the email. It wasn't me that contacted you - not sure who it would be as I don't have a clue about video game art. My best, Eric

[Bronty-2]

ah well. It was worth a shot. Did you look at his gallery? 8-)

by the way, stupid question time... what's GPK?

[Buyatari]

Yeah but who doesn't have all that stuff.... LOL

JUST amazing. I was thinking well thats 30k thats 100k thats 50k CRAP one after the other over and over.

[Bronty-2]

No shit. My favorites are the 9.6 tec 29 (200K I would think) and the 9.6 amazing fantasy 15 (probably another 200) and the marvel spotlight cover (who knows... 80 maybe?). Pretty sick stuff. Not to even mention the 6.5 action 1 and tec 27's which are probably close to 100k these days also. Yowsa. And that's just the few items on display X_x

[sivarto]

I 'll explain it further.
Take vintage toys,MEGO action figures for example.
They can sell for $20000 or even more with people fighting to get the rarest figurines.
And there is NO track at all of new megos on the market,NOR the new generations care at all since videogames are getting the upper hand over toys.
The established collectors got older and even put more money in thier hobby which reminds them thier childhood.

There is a track to the new collector. Superman Batman Hulk Spiderman etc. He gets a few and then enjoys them enough to try to collect them all. Even if he doesn't recall the product.

Now if there was a toy line at the same time as Mego dolls say XYZ company whos characters were not recognizable by todays youth then I feel the dolls would not do as well overtime as the new fans would be more likly to be attracted to Mego than XYZ.

Mego does have some kick ass toys. I had Green Goblin and Iron Man as a kid.

But then again the same I wrote can be said about vintage japanese robots(Popy and Bullmark) for example,going for thousands of dollars and being bought by older collectors---and having no link or track at all nowadays.

Also,neo geo has so many successful franchises you could always in the future find a "leg" or a link to that(KOF,slugs,samurai and so on) if we want to find anyway a feeble(or very loose) link like you did for the mego in today toys.

Regardless,my point is very clear and simple:it is,generally as a rule of experience, NOT the new generations that are paying big bucks for collectible items of a particular era but OLDER collectors who want to recall thier childhood and having a more strong financial power drive the prices up(like for the neo)
And that wil happen in the future 30 or 40 years from now.

Your point could be true in about 70-90 years from now,when most of us(and the whole world of neo geo collectors) will be dead and only new generations will be left...but then me and many others won't simply care about it LOL

[Niku-Sama]

it seems like you have it down, despite the cost you pay for it now its just going to go up in price, and if the price you payed for it comes out it may spark more people to sell them at a higher price thus causing the average value to go up...

its hard to price it so you kinda have to go off of previous sales

[Buyatari]

Also,neo geo has so many successful franchises you could always in the future find a "leg" or a link to that(KOF,slugs,samurai and so on) if we want to find anyway a feeble(or very loose) link like you did for the mego in today toys.

Superman is 60 years old. Um I think Star Trek,Batman, Superman ,Spiderman, Kiss, and even the classic monsters Dracula, the Mummy etc have huge followings. I wouldn't count any one of those a weak link. They are a much stronger link to new generations than KOF,slugs,samurai etc. Pick someone from the gerenal public and have them a character from any one of those games. Not gunna happen.While those are good games there isn't a Mario in the group.

You don't need a strong link to the future to have a collectable. But when we compare two collectable groups of the same items and one has a stong link and the other does not then the one with a weak link can not compete over time. I don't think we need 80-100 years either. Spiderman was created in 1963 and was considered a strong collectable after about 30 years. Mario burst on to the arcade scene back with Donkey Kong but even if we wait till 1985 (NES released in NY) that gives us 2015 for a 30 year mark.

[DreamTR]

sivarto: You are HEAVILY exaggerating. Even IN the arcades, Neo Geo was not immensely popular in the arcade like you are saying. "Billions and Billions" of people enjoyed Neo Geo?

Remember this, there is a DIRECT correlation between sales for the arcade game to console.

Street Fighter II. HEAVILY popular in the arcade, as was Mortal Kombat. Both franchises had a DIRECT effect on game sales for SNES and Genesis.

You can NOT find any way to say that Neo Geo's games are THAT popular. They just aren't. They are good franchises, but based on your argument of the value of new people from the old arcade days wanting to relive their youth, they sure as hell aren't going to move to home system and collect Kizuna on that. Arcade,yes. But console? No. They just aren't big enough.

[Adol]

SMS Games don't have that "factory sealed" fever like NES ones do, because they weren't generally in Europe ( I can't consider the little Sega Sticker being a "seal" ).
In Japan, Famicom/Super Famicom/GB/N64 games or Mark 3/Megadrive games were NEVER sealed.

Anagrama,i just bought another Smurfs 2 copy for 77,50€ on Ebay :) But it sold on Ebay for 400£ making near 800$ (if that was really sold, otherwise 1 got sold last week for 266€,like $325 )

And Mahjong didn't went that high,it went for $305 on November,item #8233944347 if it can still be seen

For Kizuna Encounter,you're ALL wrong about period it was sold. It sold for 10000€ not on Ebay, but hand to hand between an austrian seller and a french buyer, in MARCH 2003. That was 3 years ago. That was the LAST copy ever we heard being sold.

DreamTR: You DON'T need Gold NWC for ending European NES Collection as well, and i prefer European NES collection than US.
So there is no point in arguing about US Neo Geo Game collection which can be needed without KE...all depend which collection you're looking for: US,Japanese,European..

Point is that generally Neo-Geo collectors want all japanese games or all ENGLISH games, and KE&U11 are part of it. Simple as that.

But such argue is ENDLESS :)
All depends what's your goals, and which system you prefer collect for.
For example,i'm too young for being interested in Atari 2600, where great collector games exist.



I prefer Master System over NES,i'm European and there wasn't such contest here in 1990,so basically Gold NWC hasn't much value to my eyes.But i understand it does for an US or Canada collector,especially a NES Fan.

Such contest, as big as it was at that time, is i think nothing compared to Japanese contests, held every year, on many systems,where Power League Gold Hucard for PC Engine, as an example, was prize for winners ( 200 copies only...not 26, but still interesting) :)

[Adol]

I agree with DreamTR on that point.
While Neo Geo was the "Rolls-Royce" of consoles (as advertized in France back in 1991) and from that date collectors market up to today,there is NO way Neo Geo could be much popular than NES did.

NES was SO huge at that time.
I prefered Master System, but it was a good fight between those 2 in Europe,while in USA&Japan Mark 3/SMS was dead in 1990 TOPS.

[anagrama]

SMS Games don't have that "factory sealed" fever like NES ones do, because they weren't generally in Europe ( I can't consider the little Sega Sticker being a "seal" ).
In Japan, Famicom/Super Famicom/GB/N64 games or Mark 3/Megadrive games were NEVER sealed.

I know that. I wasn't comparing SMS games to NES games, and didn't mention anything about sealed games. Instead, I was answering Buyatari's question about what the high-priced SMS games were going for these days.



Anagrama,i just bought another Smurfs 2 copy for 77,50€ on Ebay :)

Got a link?



But it sold on Ebay for 400£ making near 800$ (if that was really sold, otherwise 1 got sold last week for 266€,like $325 )

I don't believe retroboy79's £400 copy sold, neither the buyer or seller has left feedback. He listed about 3 or 4 times with ridiculous prices and had false bidders every time.
The €266 (~£180) copy was one of the ones I was referring to. The other changed hands for £225 in a private deal. As I said above, 2 had changed hands for around £200.



And Mahjong didn't went that high,it went for $305 on November,item #8233944347 if it can still be seen

My bad - looks like I mentally confused up the £ & $ signs. I'd still say this is rarer than Smurfs 2 though - I know of about 3 boxed copies and maybe 3 or 4 loose, as opposed to about 20 traceable copies of Smurfs 2.

[sivarto]

sivarto: You are HEAVILY exaggerating. Even IN the arcades, Neo Geo was not immensely popular in the arcade like you are saying. "Billions and Billions" of people enjoyed Neo Geo?

Remember this, there is a DIRECT correlation between sales for the arcade game to console.

Street Fighter II. HEAVILY popular in the arcade, as was Mortal Kombat. Both franchises had a DIRECT effect on game sales for SNES and Genesis.

You can NOT find any way to say that Neo Geo's games are THAT popular. They just aren't. They are good franchises, but based on your argument of the value of new people from the old arcade days wanting to relive their youth, they sure as hell aren't going to move to home system and collect Kizuna on that. Arcade,yes. But console? No. They just aren't big enough.

I beg to differ,just looking at the facts.
Neo geo MVS sold worldwide and you can find neo geo arcade games in:
Europe
ASIA
US
Brazil
almost everywhere(even North Pole since a friend of mine living there is always playing the neo in the arcades).

Neo geo is known with its games worldwide and for wellover 16 years now since MVS machines are still in business use worldwide(and even making better income than new games sometimes,like here in Switzerland where slug X is making more coins that Virtua tennis 2!)

Even if only a fraction of all those gamers will in the future decide to collect the neo geo games,you can be sure they will start collecting home carts.
And,as said,it could still be a niche market like today,but still we will have collectors chasing down rare titles and fighting for them.

Anyway,time will tell and you will see metal slug home cart will be even more expensive in the future.

Adol:after the Kizuna you are talking about,another one was sold by a seller named Kusanagi-sama at neo-geo.com.
He put the cart on ebay but closed the auction since 3 bidders fought it out privately and one paid $12500 instead of the $10000 buy it now price.
It is a well known story and happened 1,5 years ago.
Yeah I know the Kizuna your talking about was sold 3 years ago.

[anagrama]

Neo Geo at the North Pole? LOL This thread just keeps gettig better.

[rbudrick]

1. There are not 26 gold carts. There are less than 10. Thats like saying there are 3000 stadium events or 10000 Atari 2600 quadruns.



All 26 nwcs did not all survive. More may turn up, yes it is possible, but as of this very minute there are less than 10 known collectors who can sell you one.


I don't know exactly how many collectors have the NWC because I never cared that much but I know there are less than 10.


Buyatari, you said it yourself...there are 10 COLLECTORS that could sell one. This doesn't mean the original owners couldn't very well still sell them and not know their value, thus selling them under the 4k range. The first quote above contradicts your second one...you state a fact that there are only 10, then you admit there were 26, but state a new fact that only 10 survived. That is 100% speculation and is unfar to any newbies reading this thread who may not know better, especially as it is based on nothing. It is impossible for you to know that 16 were destroyed because it never happened. It is a fantasy, readers, not fact. Either way, yur third quote above you admit that you don't know how many collectors have a gold NWC.


Some were thrown out , some people moved and lost them. Thats not speculation. When you call the owner up and get it right from him then thats fact. No one knew it was a valuable treasure. It was just an old NES game. Sure one or two more of these "lost" NWC carts could pop up but thats chance. There will never be 20 NWC owners again.

Ok, so you spoke to these folks. I do not refute that you did...I know DreamTR certainly did. For the purposes of my constant reasearch on the NWC, I would very much like to interview these people if you still have their contact information. Please get in touch with me if you can supply this.


THE holy grail of all video game collecting?

There's stuff way rarer than that

Just 1 example:Rockman/Megaman 4 Famicom Gold Cart...8 copies in existence,3 times less than Gold NWC...

Maybe it's the holy grail of US video game collecting...

Adol, any antique collector or dealer will always tell you that an item with incredible history or story behind it always has exponentially higher value. The NWC carts have exactly that, gold or grey. It is truly THE worldwide grail for collectors. Games like Euro Kizuna Encounter, are just RARE, but when calculating value history+rarity are THE major factors. WHile there may be only 8 gold Rockman 4 carts, they don't sell for what the NWC's regularly do. Besides, I know folks in Europe with grey NWCs and they would disagree with you on that, heh heh. It is indeed a worldwide grail. One grey owner is in the UK, and I think another was in Norway or Holland or something.

EDIT: Ah, I see DreamTR has seconded the Euro collectors part.


NeoGeo is not the same as NES. You might have to sit back and actually listen for this to make any sence to you. Lets think about people who collect $1 bills and $100 bills for a second.

Buyatari, those who collect NWC and gold Rockman 4 carts are not any different than Neo collectors. Those who can afford these ARE the $100 bill collectors.



Now even though the NWC was never sold at the time it was given away it had a value of say $40 or $50. Possibly cheaper since it wasn't a very long game but we can stick with $50. If the value now is $5000 it has gone up 100 times.

My interviews with NWC staff members indicate they probably cost at least a $200 to make. Not that it matters. Orignal value or price is almost never an indicator of future price in very rare items, as the price for very rare items in general usually just goes up.


KE is an expensive if overpriced game. It may be more expensive than NWC right now. However it won't be in the future. The NWC is a greater holy grail than KE for several reasons.

I agree it is a greater holy grail, but Kizuna Euro will still sell for more. It is a Neo gam (big $ to begin with), and I believe what, 13 are known to exist? Neo collectors will ensure that game stays high up there...they are quite passionate, almost rabid when it comes to dishing out their dough. Given it selling for 12.5k, that sets a precedent..though the next one may sell for less, it won't be much less, if it isn't more.



It is the GREATEST holy grail in all of video game collecting.

Well, except for my complete Tengen Tetris from Ben Smith that may have been THE cart that caused the big lawsuit, yes it is. :D :D :D Just kidding. Of course the NWCs are the greatest grail in game collecting, though I am quite biased to say so, since I have one, lol. Euro Kizuna Encounter may be a grail, but the NWC's are HOLY grails! ;)


MUCH people will buy Kizuna Encounter more than Gold NWC cart for the same price...because MORE people is interested!

I beg to differ on that, Adol. I just think far, far more people are interested in the NWC cart, that's all.


In any hobby it isn't the old established collector who will determine the value of things in the future. Its the new collector just jumping in. If there aren't enough new collectors the price usually drops.

Buyatari, you've got some very strange quotes in this thread, I must say. New collectors aren't really apt to buy a NWC...



I beg to differ,just looking at the facts.
Neo geo MVS sold worldwide and you can find neo geo arcade games in:
Europe
ASIA
US
Brazil
almost everywhere(even North Pole since a friend of mine living there is always playing the neo in the arcades).

Sivarto, I agreed with most things you said in this thread, but this thinking that Neo was bigger is just plain wrong. The NES/Fami was about 100 times bigger worldwide, seriously, end of story. :D As far as arcades go, they all had Playchoice 10 machines and Vs. machines long before the Neo ever existed. In homes, the nes/fami outsold the Neo by tens of millions, and this is not to mention the bootleg consoles.

By the way, one of the grey carts actually went for $4000 a few months ago. I believe that owner now has 2 greys.

Anyway, you guys all rock, and I hope you didn't see my disagreements with any of you as hostile. They are certainly not, and that doesn't alwyas come across in text. Game on!

-Rob

[sivarto]

Neo Geo at the North Pole? LOL This thread just keeps gettig better.

Yes! I have a friend there and there are some MVS machines even there.

[jajaja]

Neo Geo have been spread worldwide indeed, but the name is far from as known as Nintendo. Arcade here in Scandinavia was never that big, dont know how it was in the rest of europe. Altho, i did find a MVS cab in a hotel about 3 years ago when i was in vacation in Sweden. It also had Metal Slug hehe :)

I would say that Nintendo is a synonym to video gaming. Like, everyone know the name "Nintendo" and associate it with videogames. As i mentioned before, if you ask random people on the street what Neo Geo is i bet very few would know. If you ask the same question, but replace Neo Geo with Nintendo i bet over 90% knows.

[sivarto]

[quote]I beg to differ,just looking at the facts.
Neo geo MVS sold worldwide and you can find neo geo arcade games in:
Europe
ASIA
US
Brazil
almost everywhere(even North Pole since a friend of mine living there is always playing the neo in the arcades).

Sivarto, I agreed with most things you said in this thread, but this thinking that Neo was bigger is just plain wrong. The NES/Fami was about 100 times bigger worldwide, seriously, end of story. :D As far as arcades go, they all had Playchoice 10 machines and Vs. machines long before the Neo ever existed. In homes, the nes/fami outsold the Neo by tens of millions, and this is not to mention the bootleg consoles.

Anyway, you guys all rock, and I hope you didn't see my disagreements with any of you as hostile. They are certainly not, and that doesn't alwyas come across in text. Game on!

-Rob

I enoy your posts Rob!

I'm talking about arcade scene as you wrote but neo geo had and HAS even today a very large spread since:
-it was and is CHEAP for arcade operators
-set a real revolution with the MVS system,allowing arcade operators to swap carts(games) at no cost compared to buying a new jamma board every time

Almost every arcade in the world will have a neo geo MVS cabinet and that's the power of it.
It has been in the arcades worldwide for 16 years now and still pumping,despite of its recent demise.


Only thing I don't agree upon is that NWC is THE holy grail for all collectors.
It is for nes collectors and that's it.

Plain is that all other collectors simply don't care about it nor would ever spend a dime to get it.
And the same applies to Kizuna.

[Adol]

Anagrama:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8808401442

Good deal,huh? :) I have 2 copies now...will trade it for a Mah-Jong :)

Here is the 266€ one sold not so long ago :)

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8799298491

You can notice the 2 last ones went from France! :)
But it was an Eastern Europe release,huh?

Rbudrick: No,i disagree fully,it can be a worldwide NES holy grail,but nothing more.

By the way,Power League Gold Hucard is a worldwide holy grail then, and not JUST a japanese one,since i own 1? :)
Same for tons of japanese holy grails,since i own most of those,and i'm in Europe.

You can't speak of entire video game community just by speaking about NES.
That'd be stupid to consider this, and the same goes for Neo-Geo.

About this sentence: "MUCH people will buy Kizuna Encounter more than Gold NWC cart for the same price...because MORE people is interested!"

Please read: they'll buy it for SAME price.
I never told more ppl are interested in KE than Gold NWC,but when it comes to BUY it, with THOUSANDS of $$,for $5000 and upper, i know more ppl ready to let $5000 --> $15000 go out of the wallet for KE than for a gold NWC

i know 3 ppl ready to pay now (and they can do, for real) $12500 for KE, and i don't know 3 ppl ready to pay $12500 for a gold NWC.
Do you understand my point? I was speaking about interest of "ppl who can really afford it", not the interest in the game. Of course Gold NWC is MUCH popular than KE,and interests more ppl..

Sivarto: Sorry for the KE sale then,i didn't realize that

[sivarto]

Neo Geo have been spread worldwide indeed, but the name is far from as known as Nintendo. Arcade here in Scandinavia was never that big, dont know how it was in the rest of europe. Altho, i did find a MVS cab in a hotel about 3 years ago when i was in vacation in Sweden. It also had Metal Slug hehe :)

I would say that Nintendo is a synonym to video gaming. Like, everyone know the name "Nintendo" and associate it with videogames. As i mentioned before, if you ask random people on the street what Neo Geo is i bet very few would know. If you ask the same question, but replace Neo Geo with Nintendo i bet over 90% knows.

yeah,neo geo may not sound that familiar but I'm sure much more people would recognize the neo geo games if they saw them again or in a pic since they have seen them in the past...

[jajaja]

Thats a great find! :) I find it strange that Spideygama had that price. I've bought from him a couple of times and he seems to know what things are worth. Guess he missed out on this one.

[Adol]

Yep,he's expensive generally..not this time! :)

[anagrama]

Anagrama:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8808401442

Good deal,huh? :) I have 2 copies now...will trade it for a Mah-Jong :)


Very nice indeed! The fact that it was a BIN means it doesn't really have any effect on the "market value" though. I've got a loose Mah Jong, but won't be parting with it unless I get hold of a boxed one ;)



You can notice the 2 last ones went from France! :)
But it was an Eastern Europe release,huh?

I commented on this recently in a thread at sega8bit.com - there's been somthing like 4 or 5 confirmed or supposed copies I've seen surface in France over the last year or so - do you have any idea where these are coming from? Has there been a new batch of them been found or something?
I don't remember ever seeing it described as an "Eastern Europe release", but it's simply a fact that all the copies found before these recent French ones can be traced to the Czech Republic (mainly though Mikko & Manu, but my copy and a couple of others came from other people who found them there around the same time), and I hadn't heard of any being found in France before the last year or so.
Perhaps some old Infogrames warehouse stock has been uncovered or something?

Oh, and if you've anything else to add about this, it might be best to take it to PMs or a new thread - we don't really need to sidetrack this thread any further with unrelated SMS talk ;)

[Adol]

Well i got mine some years ago from a friend of mine, Bock/Zoop from Meka...in trade with GG games,etc...i don't know where he got it ( since that was a 2nd copy,he surely kept 1 for him )

Well,Infogrames is FRENCH,so there is much chance to find copies in France,but i have no idea where to locate those.
Too,if somebody find old stocks,be SURE they'll sell for MUCH money :)
I'm lucky on that 77,50€ one.

I'll trade it for a COMPLETE Mah-jong,not a loose one :)

[anagrama]

Yeah, Bock got his original ones from the Pelikonepeijoonit guys.
If many more surface in France over the next few months, there has got to have been some new stocks found. More copies = lower prices in the long run.

I think you'd be very lucky to trade it for a complete Mah Jong - certainly none of the guys I know with Mah Jong would make that deal.

[Speedy_NES]

Neo Geo have been spread worldwide indeed, but the name is far from as known as Nintendo. Arcade here in Scandinavia was never that big, dont know how it was in the rest of europe. Altho, i did find a MVS cab in a hotel about 3 years ago when i was in vacation in Sweden. It also had Metal Slug hehe :)

I would say that Nintendo is a synonym to video gaming. Like, everyone know the name "Nintendo" and associate it with videogames. As i mentioned before, if you ask random people on the street what Neo Geo is i bet very few would know. If you ask the same question, but replace Neo Geo with Nintendo i bet over 90% knows.

I agree with this.

What I find funny in this thread, though, is how some people claim the NWC is the WORLDWIDE holy grail. This is completely false, no matter how much some of you want it to be true ;) The only reason why I believe some of you imagine it to be the ultimate holy grail is due to the large amount of North American NES collectors (not to mention the majority of collectors on DP seem to be NES collectors). When one collector writes a comment about the NWC being their holy grail, a ton of other NES collectors will reply and agree with them, making it look like everyone agrees. But the world is much larger than that. I've lived in America, and I'm an avid NES collector, but even for me the NWC isn't my holy grail. I didn't live in the US in 1990, therefore have no memories about any NWC, and hence it is not my holy grail. Just because two collectors outside of the US have bought a gold NWC cart, does not make it a worldwide holy grail.

There is no question about it that most of the games mentioned in this thread are holy grails, but as far as I am concerned, there is no single worldwide holy grail. It's all speculation and wishful thinking, and ultimately comes down to personal preference, since there really is not enough information to compare the worldwide interest for any basket of games. At least not at this point in time...

[Buyatari]

1. There are not 26 gold carts. There are less than 10. Thats like saying there are 3000 stadium events or 10000 Atari 2600 quadruns.



All 26 nwcs did not all survive. More may turn up, yes it is possible, but as of this very minute there are less than 10 known collectors who can sell you one.


I don't know exactly how many collectors have the NWC because I never cared that much but I know there are less than 10.


Buyatari, you said it yourself...there are 10 COLLECTORS that could sell one. This doesn't mean the original owners couldn't very well still sell them and not know their value, thus selling them under the 4k range. The first quote above contradicts your second one...you state a fact that there are only 10, then you admit there were 26, but state a new fact that only 10 survived. That is 100% speculation and is unfar to any newbies reading this thread who may not know better, especially as it is based on nothing. It is impossible for you to know that 16 were destroyed because it never happened. It is a fantasy, readers, not fact. Either way, yur third quote above you admit that you don't know how many collectors have a gold NWC.

I did not contridict myself. As of this moment there are less than 10 IN COLLECTOR HANDS. I know of most of them and am vaguely aware of the other 2 or 3. Its possible a collector found one never told anyone and then yes I wouldn't know about that one. More could turn up yes but a cart that has had its 1st owner already contacted has a very slight chance of poping up. Still until they turn up they don't count they are not in the marketplace. They can't be bought,sold or traded until they turn up.








NeoGeo is not the same as NES. You might have to sit back and actually listen for this to make any sence to you. Lets think about people who collect $1 bills and $100 bills for a second.

Buyatari, those who collect NWC and gold Rockman 4 carts are not any different than Neo collectors. Those who can afford these ARE the $100 bill collectors.

You failed to follow my train of thought on that one. A collectable $1 can sell for more than a collectable $100. Its just got an uphill battle. When it comes even comes close in value thats a good indication that it is a very desirable bill.




Now even though the NWC was never sold at the time it was given away it had a value of say $40 or $50. Possibly cheaper since it wasn't a very long game but we can stick with $50. If the value now is $5000 it has gone up 100 times.

My interviews with NWC staff members indicate they probably cost at least a $200 to make. Not that it matters. Orignal value or price is almost never an indicator of future price in very rare items, as the price for very rare items in general usually just goes up.

huh $200 thats crazy but it did have a short print run. Well I think you know what I was trying to say anyway.



KE is an expensive if overpriced game. It may be more expensive than NWC right now. However it won't be in the future. The NWC is a greater holy grail than KE for several reasons.

I agree it is a greater holy grail, but Kizuna Euro will still sell for more. It is a Neo gam (big $ to begin with), and I believe what, 13 are known to exist? Neo collectors will ensure that game stays high up there...they are quite passionate, almost rabid when it comes to dishing out their dough. Given it selling for 12.5k, that sets a precedent..though the next one may sell for less, it won't be much less, if it isn't more.

Well it will sell for more right now but NWC will catch up and surpass.


[quote]In any hobby it isn't the old established collector who will determine the value of things in the future. Its the new collector just jumping in. If there aren't enough new collectors the price usually drops.

Buyatari, you've got some very strange quotes in this thread, I must say. New collectors aren't really apt to buy a NWC...[quote]

Not the frist day they collect. But more 50yr olds have Action Comics #1 than the 70yr and 80yr olds who would have actually had the chance to buy it when it was new.

I studied as many hobbies as I could find. And often when a hobby first started out the first collectors would establish ideas of what things were worth. They established what was better and rarer etc only to have that blown away by the newbie who didn't know about these guidelines and didn't care. The common crap became valuable overnight.

ie Nintendo Power #1 which is considered pretty common to most collectors these days will one day be considered a holy grail to newer collectors.

[rbudrick]

I did not contridict myself. As of this moment there are less than 10 IN COLLECTOR HANDS. I know of most of them and am vaguely aware of the other 2 or 3. Its possible a collector found one never told anyone and then yes I wouldn't know about that one. More could turn up yes but a cart that has had its 1st owner already contacted has a very slight chance of poping up. Still until they turn up they don't count they are not in the marketplace. They can't be bought,sold or traded until they turn up.

Ok, so who do I have to blow to get a hold of these people?! LOL But seriously, for the sake of history, I would really love to contact them, if you can help out. And I'm a broke bastid LOL , so don't worry that I'm trying to grab up all the NWC carts. I just want pics and stories. I promise I'm making the best effort I can to do a book on the NWC, but there's a lot of roadblocks to the needed information.

-Rob

[sivarto]

What I find funny in this thread, though, is how some people claim the NWC is the WORLDWIDE holy grail. This is completely false, no matter how much some of you want it to be true ;) The only reason why I believe some of you imagine it to be the ultimate holy grail is due to the large amount of North American NES collectors (not to mention the majority of collectors on DP seem to be NES collectors). When one collector writes a comment about the NWC being their holy grail, a ton of other NES collectors will reply and agree with them, making it look like everyone agrees. But the world is much larger than that. I've lived in America, and I'm an avid NES collector, but even for me the NWC isn't my holy grail. I didn't live in the US in 1990, therefore have no memories about any NWC, and hence it is not my holy grail. Just because two collectors outside of the US have bought a gold NWC cart, does not make it a worldwide holy grail.

There is no question about it that most of the games mentioned in this thread are holy grails, but as far as I am concerned, there is no single worldwide holy grail. It's all speculation and wishful thinking, and ultimately comes down to personal preference, since there really is not enough information to compare the worldwide interest for any basket of games. At least not at this point in time...

Well truth there and the fact this board is full of nes-lovers was a given for all I guess... but still it is fun to discuss topics.

Rob,
kizuna is now at 4 pieces confirmed and I read at neo-geo.com and in few days I have read on the forum ther,e will be published an interview where SNK itself talks about European Kizuna encounter and its huge rarity(going by words of the article,"the mystery will be solved"

As for the fact in the future the value of NWC will catch and surpass Kizuna,that's very unlikely.
As I already noted ,the nes market is pretty much a cheap games market and even ultra rare items will be always relatively in keeping with this market.

You can buy the most rare car of the american best seller car producer but it will be always cheaper than the rarest Ferrari in comparison.

And in addition,we have quite a good numbers of NWC gold carts around, not talking about 4 or 6 pieces here but much more(at least about 20 and official numbers will always tell colletors 26 are around,regardless of any speculation)

[Bronty-2]

I studied as many hobbies as I could find. And often when a hobby first started out the first collectors would establish ideas of what things were worth. They established what was better and rarer etc only to have that blown away by the newbie who didn't know about these guidelines and didn't care. The common crap became valuable overnight.

ie Nintendo Power #1 which is considered pretty common to most collectors these days will one day be considered a holy grail to newer collectors.

Whoah NP#1 a grail - I hope I never live to see that day. Seriously though I agree with what you're saying; I've seen it many times myself. But I don't think something like NP1 has the elusiveness to *ever* be a grail. More valuable, yeah, but there were enough printed that it's never going to be crazy valuable IMO. Yes I think we will be surprised by what an unread perfect mint copy sells for in the future but even then it won't be grailworthy except perhaps in completely completely, untouched, not-even-a-fingerprint shape. I mean I guess if Hulk 181 can be 50k in 9.9 there's no reason NP1 can't eventually be a couple k in 9.8. But I don't know that a couple of k far into the future really makes for a grail. Besides, I don't know that video game collectors are going to pay even that much for a magazine - they aren't magazine collectors after all. I think a much better analogy would be something like the overstreet guide first edition. that's a comic tie in that comic peole want, but it's not a comic. And you don't see crazy prices on it. $1000, even now, 35+ years later, and with the print run of that first edition being only 1000 copies versus god knows how many for NP1. So I think we'll be hard pressed to see a day NP1 is worth really big bucks, although I agree with your main point that common crap that has a lot of demand will go up.

I do think it's a stretch to say there are only 10 copies of gold nwc though. I find it highly unlikely they were destroyed. Misplaced, forgotten about, sold at the garage sale, sure. But destroyed no. And sooner or later they will turn up. To say they don't matter in the marketplace is misleading... if I were buying one I'd definitely have it in the back of my mind that more could (will) come to market. Just like when I thought about buying a grey I had it in the back of my mind that the #ing of the carts indicates that there are many copies that could be sitting in a locked drawer at nintendo or something (unlikely but you get my point. There were other copies made, maybe they are still out there).

minor corrections -
superman's 67 (1938)
spidey first appeared in aug 1962 not 63 - really only took about 25 years for the prices to start skyrocketing, also. Haven't stopped going up since.