MS on 360 backwards compatibility: "We've done enough&q

[heybtbm]

Boy, I never realized what a favor Microsoft was doing for us ungrateful former Xbox owners.

http://games.kikizo.com/news/200605/155_p2.asp

[captain nintendo]

You know, this honestly doesnt bother me at all. You know because it is sooooo hard to hook up my Xbox and play those games that arent backwards compatable.


And maybe its me, but dont recall MS ever promising complete backwards compatability anyhow?? So in truth, maybe his statement is 100% correct.


"Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible."

He added: "more are coming, but at some point, you just go, there's enough, let's move on, or people aren't as worried about a game being backwards compatible - and I like to think we've upheld our end of the bargain in making at least two or maybe three hundred games backwards compat."

[Emuaust]

This is the reason that so many mainstream/casual users
wont adopt the console for any price compared to the offerings
of other companies, oh and before all of the MS fanboys start
bitching to me PM me and ill show figures in my country to
show the trend of sales for the 360 even compared to the psp
its not that great as more and more of my customers everyday
are saying that they will at least wait for the PS3 to compare
things like BC before the make a decision on what company to go.

I love my 360 but damn it pisses me of as a PAL gamer most
games DONT work with the BC if you have your 360 connected
to a VGA monitor as most modern LCDs dont support 50Hz,
the problem is that while all Xbox games can be played in 60hz
a lot of games force 50hz menus and title screens this rendering
games unplayable because you cant access the game.


Please MS if you cant fix the BC at least get some outside
help from the dev community or something as if BC is improved
sales will too.

My 2 cents anyways, all IMO

[CreamSoda]

Yeah man that does kind of suck, but some Xbox games are better then NO Xbox games. And luckily most of my favorite games are BC.

-GTA Trilogy
-Forza Motorsport
-Ninja Gaiden/Ninja Gaiden Black
-Fable
-Splinter Cell Trilogy
-Ghost Recon's

If they just made PSO and Morrowind BC... :P

But I can handle it, since I still have my old Xbox too.

[Matt-El]

yet another way of Microsoft Half-assing it to the public? Like I should be surprised? :hmm:

Listen, I know the fact that they are separate systems, but I'm sorry Microsoft, once you start it, you have to finish it.

[djbeatmongrel]

man this is killing it for me, i dont own an xbox since theres only a handful of games i want and i dont own the 360 since there isnt many games i want yet nor are the xbox games i want bc. if really lame because i dont want to spend another $100+ to play around 10 games: KoF Neowave, guilty gear xx reload(i think thats the name), shenmue ii, jsrf, panzer dragoon orta, metal slug 3, and voodoo vince.

if this news is true i really dont see myself buying a microsoft system any time soon unless theres some major price drops.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Yeah, and everyone always talks about how much Sony fucks it's supporters over :roll:

[Julio III]

man this is killing it for me, i dont own an xbox since theres only a handful of games i want and i dont own the 360 since there isnt many games i want yet nor are the xbox games i want bc. if really lame because i dont want to spend another $100+ to play around 10 games: KoF Neowave, guilty gear xx reload(i think thats the name), shenmue ii, jsrf, panzer dragoon orta, metal slug 3, and voodoo vince.

if this news is true i really dont see myself buying a microsoft system any time soon unless theres some major price drops.

wow, those games don't work, ouch, and i heard the 2 outruns dont either. Thats damn annoying, i don't own either an Xbox or a 360 and so having the 360 able to play games i want the xbox for would be a major plus point in me buying one.

[PapaStu]

Did they ever release more than just that one inital disc with the backwards compatability stuff on them? Or are they forcing downloads for the later stuff now?

[Richter Belmount]

You know, this honestly doesnt bother me at all. You know because it is sooooo hard to hook up my Xbox and play those games that arent backwards compatable.


And maybe its me, but dont recall MS ever promising complete backwards compatability anyhow?? So in truth, maybe his statement is 100% correct.


"Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible."

He added: "more are coming, but at some point, you just go, there's enough, let's move on, or people aren't as worried about a game being backwards compatible - and I like to think we've upheld our end of the bargain in making at least two or maybe three hundred games backwards compat."

bah I cant have both my xbox and 360 hooked up , Just one (not enough room in my room) And besides I was so hoping to playing all those xbox games i had in hd and with a wireless controller. Well if he thinks people are not gonna care than maybe the hardcore crowd might get pissed.

[Gamereviewgod]

Xboxes will drop in price, and there are still about 200 games BC. That's not bad. It's not a needed feature, and how many people play PS One games on the their PS2's because they actually want to or need to?

I've never understood the need for BC and never will.

[YoshiM]

Xboxes will drop in price, and there are still about 200 games BC.

Yeah but how many of those titles actually run well?

My fellow 360 co-owner and I tried out all of his Xbox games which wasn't many: Voodoo Vince, Doom 3, Burnout: Revenge, 007: Nightfire, SSX 3, Links....(can't think of anything else). The only two that worked was SSX 3 and Nightfire. Nightfire seemed to run okay buy SSX 3, while gorgeous, was unplayably choppy.

Y'know, they should have never have offered the BC. If you can't do it right, why bother doing it at all? I give kudos to Sony for their BC setup, even if it may have set the PS2 back technologically.

[Push Upstairs]

I just find it funny that people are complaining they can't play thier older games on a newer system on a website forum thats dedicated to collecting older games and older game systems.

x_x

[DonMarco]

I was fairly convinced 90-95% of all concerns of backwards compatible games was related to Halo and Halo 2.

Without full compatibility, there will still be a reason to sell Xboxes. For the many dozens of Xbox games coming out, and the few years after the 360 launch the Xbox will be available in most gaming stores.

[norkusa]

I used to ALWAYS buy the Xbox version of a game if it was released on multiple patforms. Lately I'm starting to buy the PS2 versions just because I know it'll be playable on the PS3. I know I can still play the games on my old Xbox, but it doesn't really appeal to me. :/

[exit]

I've never understood the need for BC and never will.

Well it would be more convient for people who didn't have a chance to own the original Xbox/PS1/PS2, especially if they want catch up on a games story before getting into it's sequel. It would be one thing if they stop with 50-75% games working, but it's just being lazy have 30% games working and then just giving up.

Then again XBOX didn't have that many great games to play, so them getting the system seller games to work would be fine.

[Anthony1]

BC isn't a very big deal to me. I currently don't have a single Xbox 1 system, so you think it would be a bigger concern. But I'm just not interested in playing current Gen games right now. I'm only interested in playing my Xbox 360 or my old school classics. And of course I play some PSP here and there.


There will come a time, when I'll actually yearn for some Xbox 1 love, but I'm guessing that will come in a few years. Right now, if I'm going to play a modern game, then I might as well play the "new hotness"

[swlovinist]

The whole BC issue with the 360 just plain makes Microsoft look stupid in the long run. THe bottom line is that Nintendo and Sony will near fully be backwards compatable. For a system that can do so much, it just shows that Microsoft is still a rookie when making game consoles. Many gamers(not myself) traded in their Xbox to get a 360. I have talked to many that feel that they would rather play thier Xbox games again if they could. The bottom line is that a the very least, ALL NEW XBOX GAMES SHOULD BE BACKWARDS COMPATABLE. I dont give a crap about old titles having current games compatable just seems like a no brainer! x_x

[Nez]

I use the BC feature all the time for my PS2 its not for being lazy or having enough inputs, nor the fast loading times or the smoothing of textures. Theres one reason and one reason only, component connection. And since the xbox and 360 best connection is component I really dont see an issue with micrsoft saying enough is enough.

They are 2 completly different platforms, they have almost nothing in common.

[Sothy]

wah

[THATinkjar]

I don't think this bothers me. Ideally, yes - every Xbox game would work perfectly on the Xbox 360. But they don't, and I think we've all accepted that they never will.

I have an Xbox already, and it is ready to go whenever I want to use it.

[Lothars]

Man typical MS

It still makes me shake my head, they should support backwords compatibility, but it's a joke anyway

shit like this, still holds me off buying the 360, but I will eventually, this just pisses me off.

[WanganRunner]

The whole lack of BC thing doesn't bother me in the least.

Whenever possible (i.e. unless I'm being particularly lazy) I always like to play stuff on the period-correct hardware. If I'm playing a PSX game that was released before the dual-shock came out, I'll play it with the plain-jane digital-only launch controller.

Likewise, if I'm playing an Xbox game, I'd rather play it on an Xbox. I guess I can understand the frustration from those who never bought an Xbox, but to that I say....what were you thinking? So many fun games (although still fewer than GCN or PS2, IMO).

[playgeneration]

Not so long ago my original xbox died, and i wanted to buy a 360 to replace it. But the problem is that only a couple of my 50 xbox games are 360 compatible. So i ended up buying just another original xbox instead of a 360, i couldnt afford to have both.
Its a bad move on their part, and is annoying the loyal followers who supported them first time around. People shouldnt have to have two big consoles under the tv. Its like microsoft are dismissing all those original games as unimportant now.
If they couldnt make it properly backwards compatible, then they shouldnt have called the 360 an Xbox, its misleading!

[jdc]

Is backwards compatability that big a deal? It shouldn't be.

Microsoft is right. The idea behind buying a next gen system is to get into next gen gaming. All you simply have to do is make sure that you own an Xbox if you wish to play Xbox games. Is that so difficult? God knows, there's plenty of them around. Why should the makers of consoles pander to backwards compatability anyways? It's a ridiculous idea that catered to cheap-ass people who lined up for the next gen console but were too cheap to buy next gen software to go along with it. No other reason.

As a collector it has advantages since you can save wear and tear on your older console by playing on your newer one. But....the original reason was to cater to the cheap.

[kevin_psx]

You know, this honestly doesnt bother me at all.

Yeah but if it was Sony, I'm sure you (or somebody else) would be all over it and saying, "Sony sucks"



Looking from an unbiased angle, there's only so much Sony/Microsoft can do. There's no way to make the PS3/X360 100% backwards-compatible. 99.9% is still pretty good.

[captain nintendo]

wah

Exactly ;)


And to expand on this, I have a new term I have been using for the last few months.

WFW, or "Wah fucking wah" :P


Seriously, Microsoft did not promise complete backwards compatability. And if Sony does the same with the PS3, I would not be all over them either. I guess being a collector of games and systems, (and having the capability to own and have all of these systems hooked up) it really doesnt bother me. *shrug*

Oh and I am being lazy at the moment, but is the Wii backwards compatable with the Gamecube? :hmm:

[Gamereviewgod]

[quote]
Well it would be more convient for people who didn't have a chance to own the original Xbox/PS1/PS2, especially if they want catch up on a games story before getting into it's sequel. It would be one thing if they stop with 50-75% games working, but it's just being lazy have 30% games working and then just giving up.
/quote]

If you haven't bought an Xbox by now, I can't imagine waiting a little longer for a price drop or just moving on to play the games you wanted. It's not lazy, it costs a ton of money to continually produce individual emulators for these games. To lose money on the hardware and keep development going for "ancient" games few people will ever put into their 360, it's not smart from a business standpoint.

Did anyone here not buy a SNES because it didn't play NES games? A Saturn because it ddn't play Genesis stuff?

[starchildskiss78]

I have to say that backwards compatibility isn't an issue to me either. I have not once thought that it would be great just to be able to play everything from system A on system B. I just get them as I can. (Still don't have an X-Box and not all too interested in the PS2. I played Juiced, for example, on both systems and the X-Box version had better graphics and seemed to be better in the playability department. And I'm not a Sony hater or anything because the PS1 was my first "modern" console (having skipped the Saturn only because it was too expensive and I got the PS1 for $88 dollars after buying two pre-played games at Babbages) and I had a lot of fun with various games on it. I understand why some people feel that after they have spent so much on one system that they shouldn't have to spend more money and not be able to play their previous gen stuff on it but like someone else said...what's the point in buying something current gen to play the previous gen's stuff?

[kevin_psx]

For me the issue is space.

I'd rather have just ONE ps3 sitting on my table-- then three separate ps1/2/3 consoles. The former saves space & hassle.

[aaronpetrosky]

BC to me is everything. That's one thing I hated about older systems. I bought games for them and when the new systems came out they were irrevelant.

I've spent hundreds of dollers and maybe more on Playstation games and I can still play them on a Ps2. Now they don't go to waste and it'll be the same for Ps3.

I'm not getting a 360 for this exact reason.

[98PaceCar]

Did anyone here not buy a SNES because it didn't play NES games? A Saturn because it ddn't play Genesis stuff?

I'd love to know the answer to this myself!

BC is a nice touch, but is it really that hard to either buy a switcher and keep the old stuff hooked up or just use the front AV connections that have been on nearly every TV/VCR/receiver for the past 10 years? You can only play one system at a time.

Besides, I'd rather developers spent their time working on new games that I've never played than making old games that I can already play on one system work on another.

Out of curiosity, how many of the people that are complaining about MS not putting effort into BC game actually own a 360?

[captain nintendo]

BC to me is everything. That's one thing I hated about older systems. I bought games for them and when the new systems came out they were irrevelant.

I've spent hundreds of dollers and maybe more on Playstation games and I can still play them on a Ps2. Now they don't go to waste and it'll be the same for Ps3.

I'm not getting a 360 for this exact reason.

So you just threw away your PS1 when you got a PS2?
Are you going to throw away or sell your PS2 when the PS3 comes out? If so, I dont understand the logic. I am a collector and a gamer. I keep everything!

I dont play my Xbox games on the 360. I mean I could, but hey what do you know.... They are both hooked up and in the same area.

[keiblerfan69]

I guess they don't realize how many people traded in there XBOXs. Mine was broke so I traded it in.

[playgeneration]

i have a lot of consoles, a huge amount infact, so its great to only have my ps2 out, and keep the old ps1 boxed away. That means i have space to keep one of my other consoles hooked up for play too.
The average person doesnt collect systems, and will usually sell their old consoles with a few crappy games to help fund the next one. The fact that the 360 is called an xbox leads people to think it will play xbox games, when it really only plays a fraction of them. Microsoft can easily afford to make emulators for more games, and they should be doing everything they can to attract gamers to their console while they still have a head start.

[aaronpetrosky]

I traded in my Psone when I got my Ps2 and I may or may not do the same for Ps3.

I don't really collect. Just takes up space for me. I only keep the things I play.

[98PaceCar]

I traded in my Psone when I got my Ps2 and I may or may not do the same for Ps3.

I don't really collect. Just takes up space for me. I only keep the things I play.

So I'm curious.. If the Wii doesn't play gamecube (assuming you have at least a few gamecube games), are you going to buy it?

[aaronpetrosky]

I don't own a gamecube nor do I plan on buying a Wii. Only Nintendo products I own is NES and SNES.

[Push Upstairs]

Did anyone here not buy a SNES because it didn't play NES games? A Saturn because it ddn't play Genesis stuff?

I think the problem is that people have got used to things being backward compatable that they think they are entitled to it with every console.

You can't play 5200 games on a 7800,SNES games on the N64, and you can't play Saturn games on a Dreamcast. How did we manage!

To be perfectly honest...i'd rather MS just put thier manpower to better uses than to try and render all thier previous games playable on thier current system.

[98PaceCar]

I don't own a gamecube nor do I plan on buying a Wii. Only Nintendo products I own is NES and SNES.

Fair enough. So, are there any 360 games you want to play or would you use a 360 strictly to play Xbox games? (Assuming you were going to buy a 360)

[aaronpetrosky]

Not really only games on 360 that slightly interests me are Condemned and Gears of War.

I'd have more original Xbox games then 360.

[98PaceCar]

Not really only games on 360 that slightly interests me are Condemned and Gears of War.

I'd have more original Xbox games then 360.

So, you'd deprive yourself of being able to play Gears of War (excellent choice, btw) just because your xbox games don't work on the 360? It's pretty much a given that when when you buy a new system, you're not going to have as many games for the newer system as you do for the older system. As a system ages, the price on games drop and it becomes easier to buy them in greater numbers, not to mention there are more available to suit a person's particular tastes.

Not trying to flame, just trying to understand why someone would use the lack of BC to justify not buying a system that has games they want to play.

[aaronpetrosky]

Why pay $300 or more for just 2 games I want on a system? I think that would be a waste.

[aaronpetrosky]

Also I don't even know if I would like those 2 games. Just too risky for me.

Just I can't figure out why MS doesn't us BC. Sony shown it could be done.

[98PaceCar]

Why pay $300 or more for just 2 games I want on a system? I think that would be a waste.

So the real issue here isn't the lack of BC, it's the cost of the system versus the amount and quality of games currently available. You don't *have* to trade in your xbox to get a 360 ($300 price you listed gets you a core), so there's no reason you couldn't have a 360 and still keep your xbox to play the older games you already have.

[aaronpetrosky]

I don't have an Xbox. I used too about 2 years ago. I had Shenmue II and Ninja Gaiden for it.


Now I would like to play those again and get the Farcry's and Ninja Gaiden Black. I figured I would get a 360 instead of getting an original Xbox. But the fact that it's not really BC. I don't plan on getting a 360 setting up online just to download something being able to play the old games.

I'm not an online gamer and it's a shame I have to go online in order to download something to play those games. To me it should be BC from the start.

[98PaceCar]

I don't have an Xbox. I used too about 2 years ago. I had Shenmue II and Ninja Gaiden for it.


Now I would like to play those again and get the Farcry's and Ninja Gaiden Black. I figured I would get a 360 instead of getting an original Xbox. But the fact that it's not really BC. I don't plan on getting a 360 setting up online just to download something being able to play the old games.

I'm not an online gamer and it's a shame I have to go online in order to download something to play those games. To me it should be BC from the start.

Ok, that makes a lot more sense. I thought you already had an Xbox with a bunch of games. Not sure about Shenmue and Farcry, but I know that NGB is compat.

You used to be able to get the BC disks direct from MS, but not sure if they still do it.

[scorch56]

All this does for me is put the 360 at the bottom of my list, when it comes to the buying order of my next gen consoles. Last time around (for me) it was the PS2 first, Xbox about a year later, and a Gamecube 6 months after.. but I got them all. Like some people here.. I play PS1 games on my PS2 ALL the time; and space IS an issue with me.

Nothing's written in stone anymore, and I've never even heard of this website.. but just to show you how stories conflict.. from the article quoted:

"Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible."

From my latest issue of GamePro (Jun '06); David Reid, director of platform & marketing for MS said:

GP: "New Tom Clancy games and GTA:SA were just made
BC. Can Xbox 360 owners expect to see more Xbox
games added to this list as time goes on?"

DR: "Yes. We hope to get ALL Xbox titles BC for 360,
but it's a process that people are hard at work on.
Some of the best developers were peeled off projects
to work on this. Our plan is to do as many as we can."

.. yeah right. :roll:

[CYRiX]

If they were smart they would of ran on this idea instead of working on all of their ported PC games :hmm:

[aaronpetrosky]

Yea I remember reading somewhere about getting those dics. I was hopeing one day too that they would fix the BC problem but I guess not.

I still may get a 360 one day not sure. I'm sure there will be more 360 games I want but as of now I'll hold off and maybe something will happen.

[SkiDragon]

First of all, the "Wii" is supposed to be backward compatible with Gamecube, and thats probably done in hardware and will likely support the vast majority of titles.

I was arguing with my friend that software emulation was not true backward compatibility, especially when not even all of the titles were supported. By that logic my PC is backward compatible with many, many systems. I guess I was proven right.

I think the problem is that people bought the 360 expecting it to be backward compatible. I seem to remember it being advertised that way.

I like backwards compatibility, because it is like buying two systems at once. Sure I might have the old system, but now I dont need to keep it hooked up. Since I move back and forth between residences, I can keep the new system at one place and the old system at the other.

[Emuaust]

The thing is regardless of what certain posters on this forum
think BC is a big issue when it comes to mainstream sales
and here is a news flash for eveyone, that makes up the MAJOR
share of sales.

Parents and the general public have come to expect BC and deem
it as better value for there dollar regardless of it being truthful
or not, this will hurt sales for quite some time when this information
is made more public to the general buyers.

A perfect example of this was the PS2 launch, there was really
a lack of games, although the diversity was greater then the 360
regardless of quality, but peeps didnt care they had there
old games to play and bought the console anyways, Im not
going to sit here and state that there is any intellegence in
this as IMO there is very little, but this is the way the general
buyes buying attitudes are.

The 360 is already less then impressive for the average gamer
as there is a real lack of software that fills the various mainstream genres
eg. platformers and action adventures.

YES you may like the games available but put it this way come
christmas time this year are parents going to buy for young jimmy
XBOX 360 + Halo3,CoD2,various other driving and shooting games

Wii - Mario,Wario,Zelda etc etc

PS3- possible Jak or Ratchet game


IMO id go for the 360 but meh this is not the average attitude
im afraid,


FFS MS at this rate you will generate as much hate amongst the
gaming community as Sony.


Im picking the Wii for the win this time around, The lack of push
for HD means there is no more initial purchase then the console
and some games, Mark my words right here.


Nintendo, Wii innovate.
Nintendo, Wii Understand.
Nintendo, Wii Impress
Nintendo, Wii Play.


Disclamer,
Im very tired and blabbing on and take no responsibilty for
what i type in this state

[Griking]

I used to ALWAYS buy the Xbox version of a game if it was released on multiple patforms. Lately I'm starting to buy the PS2 versions just because I know it'll be playable on the PS3. :/

Has this been positively confirmed? I know for sure that I've read at least one or two stories stating that the PS3's backwards compatibility wasn't shaping up to be nearly as good as Sony had originally hoped it would be when they started work on the PS3

[heybtbm]

I think the point that everybody is missing is that backward compatibility determines which system I will buy multi-platform games for.

As far as the Xbox/PS2/Gamecube generation was concerned, I almost always bought the PS2 version...because I knew that I would be able to play the game for years (on current or future consoles) if my old machine broke. For "console exclusive" games, I guess backwards compatibility doesn't enter into the equation...but for multi-console releases, it usually is the determining factor. Sony gets it, Nintendo is starting to, and it seems Microsoft does not.

[ManciGames]

Did anyone here not buy a SNES because it didn't play NES games? A Saturn because it ddn't play Genesis stuff?

It's a good point, but consider that it is 2006 and not 1991 or 1995. Sony and Nintendo have changed expectations.

I have a 360 and I still have my XBOX. And it's a big fat pain in the ass to have to drag that shit out of storage each time I want to have a go at Neowave...

[ManciGames]

So the real issue here isn't the lack of BC, it's the cost of the system versus the amount and quality of games currently available. You don't *have* to trade in your xbox to get a 360 ($300 price you listed gets you a core), so there's no reason you couldn't have a 360 and still keep your xbox to play the older games you already have.

There's just not enough room or inputs on a TV. Right now, I've got a PS2, Neo-Geo, Gamecube and 360 hooked up across two TVs. When I hook up the XBOX, I've gotta swap something out.

You see, in the old days, I had no problem retiring one system when moving to the next (NES to Genesis for example). But the leap from PS2 and XBOX to PS3 and 360 is just not going to be big enough to make me forget about all the great stuff still coming out on the old systems.

Funny enough, it's the Wii that will make me retire a system. And for the first time ever, it won't be because of substantially better graphics. Isn't that refreshing?

[Lothars]

I agree it's one of those things, I will get a 360 but especially stuff like this Backwords compatibillity where I can understand not all games will work with it, but they are ending support of those way to soon. hurts it IMO

I would prefer to only have say the 360 hooked up instead of both the xbox 360 and xbox just to play games that should in all reality be on playable on the 360, o well though it's just one of those things again.




So the real issue here isn't the lack of BC, it's the cost of the system versus the amount and quality of games currently available. You don't *have* to trade in your xbox to get a 360 ($300 price you listed gets you a core), so there's no reason you couldn't have a 360 and still keep your xbox to play the older games you already have.

There's just not enough room or inputs on a TV. Right now, I've got a PS2, Neo-Geo, Gamecube and 360 hooked up across two TVs. When I hook up the XBOX, I've gotta swap something out.

You see, in the old days, I had no problem retiring one system when moving to the next (NES to Genesis for example). But the leap from PS2 and XBOX to PS3 and 360 is just not going to be big enough to make me forget about all the great stuff still coming out on the old systems.

Funny enough, it's the Wii that will make me retire a system. And for the first time ever, it won't be because of substantially better graphics. Isn't that refreshing?

[kevin_psx]

Worth repeating:
For me the issue is space.

I'd rather have just ONE ps3 sitting on my table-- then three separate ps1/2/3 consoles. The former saves space & hassle.

[le geek]

put me in the doesn't bother me column...

[sabre2922]

OK

Im ready to start another flame war :evil: everyone get their Rocky "eye of the tiger" thing going on ;)

FIRST: As another fellow DPer pointed out it is 2006 NOT 1991 or 1995 ,Backwards Compatibility IS EXPECTED NOW especially by the casual masses and even SOME hardcore gamers (although obviously not many on this board).

The PS2 set a precedent when it came to backwards compatibility and the expectations that a sequel console would be BC ,IF this were not true why would both Nintendo and Sony be promising BC on their new Next-gen consoles.

SECOND: Not all of us like to have 5/10 or 100 freaking consoles hooked up to one or even two TVs its just not convenient for MOST of us be it casual or hardcore.

THIRD: I respect soo many fellow gamers on this board but I have to state that I see more than a few are sometimes blinded by thier so-called hardcore ways when it comes to what the current state of gaming is and what the masses and even most hardcore gamers have come to expect with thier consoles and BACWARDS COMPATIBILITY is ONE of those things my friends.

and YES Sony has stated many times over that they plan for the PS3 to be bacwards compatible with both PS1 and PS2 games, Hell I would be happy with just PS2 backwards compatibility.

Now back to the main topic at hand:

This is typical fucking microsoft they say one thing and DO another.

Microsoft is acting more and more like Sega did back in the Saturn/Dreamcast days when it comes to promises made and not kept, and we all know how that turned out for Sega dont we?

On the flip side though Sony is acting JUST LIKE Nintendo through the transition from the SNES to N64 with all their EGOtrips and WE ARE GOD attitude too, of course this caused the then-giant of the videogames industry to stumble and eventually fall to a distant third place.

[TurboGenesis]

Did anyone here not buy a SNES because it didn't play NES games? A Saturn because it ddn't play Genesis stuff?

I bought the Genesis and the Power Base converter. When the Super 8 adaptor came out I bought that. I originally thought that the cart slot on the Saturn was for Genesis games when I was a kid. I play all my PS1 games on my PS2's. My Playstation is packed in its box-has been since 2001.

BC is important to me. I have a peice of shit xbox thompson drive that reads disc only on Thursdays at 9:43 am and every other sunday afternoon. The thing is a beast taking much space. I could replace the drive but then I have to rip the rubber pads off and put a hole through the lable to access the center screw. Real nice. Or just buy another xbox. I have a 360 and can only play Halo's and HotDIII since every other game I have wont work. I haven't played xbox since christmas time when a friend came over and we played Metal Slug 3. I have 14 consoles hooked up right now and am trying to figure where PS3 and Wii could go. Should those systems will have bc then I will be able to put the ps2's and the gcn away.

[Jibbajaba]

OXM did a feature this month on the 20 best XBox games that you never bought. (Of course most of you have probably bought some of these.) They also listed whether each one was playable on a 360. Here's the list:

Steel Battalion NO We can give this one a pass since it needs a special controller, though.

Phantasy Star Online NO
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath NO
Panzer Dragoon Orta NO
Project: SnowBlind NO
Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy NO
Armed and Dangerous NO
Otogi 2: Immortal Warriors NO
Jet Set Radio Future NO
Advent Rising NO
Voodoo Vince NO
Gladius NO
XIII YES
Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict NO
Metal Arms: Glitch in the System YES
Thief: Deadly Shadows YES
Deus Ex: Invisibe War NO
Beyond Good and Evil NO
Breakdown NO
Psychonauts NO <--@_@


For those of you keeping score at home, thats 3/20, or 15%. Now for some people maybe that isn't a big deal, especially if you already own an XBox. But for someone like me who was just looking to get into XBox gaming, the choice was obvious.

When the PS2 came out, it was able to attaract new customers who had previously owned non-Sony systems, because they knew that they would have alibrary of 1000+ games to choose from right away, on top of the PS2 games that were coming out. Microsoft could have attracted new XBox owners (like me) had they offerred full BC, because it would mean that on top of playing great 360 games and playing on the new Xbox live, I could stock up on all of those great XBox titles that I missed out on in the last 5 or so years. Instead, I just bought a secondhand XBox and a bunch of secondhand games, and MS made no money off of me at all.

Chris

[anagrama]

I used to ALWAYS buy the Xbox version of a game if it was released on multiple patforms. Lately I'm starting to buy the PS2 versions just because I know it'll be playable on the PS3. :/

Has this been positively confirmed? I know for sure that I've read at least one or two stories stating that the PS3's backwards compatibility wasn't shaping up to be nearly as good as Sony had originally hoped it would be when they started work on the PS3

Yeah, pretty much - recent reports have said that the PS3 includes the PS2 chipset on the motherboard, so backwards-compatibility should be close to, if not exactly, 100%.

Recent Assembler thread with details: http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10205

[Nature Boy]

What's so wrong with demanding extra functionality out of a piece of hardware? Especially one that costs what the 360 costs? And considering it's competition is doing it?

I definitely wouldn't say it no longer matters. BC is a pretty powerful sales pitch to the parents who are thinking of buying it as a gift. The idea that the hundreds of dollars they've already spent will be a total waste once they buy a new machine isn't exactly condusive to making the purchase.

Remember - most people aren't like us (with multiple machines hooked up at once in multiple rooms in the house). A console is a consumer good, just like anything else they might purchase.

[Jibbajaba]

What's so wrong with demanding extra functionality out of a piece of hardware? Especially one that costs what the 360 costs? And considering it's competition is doing it?

I definitely wouldn't say it no longer matters. BC is a pretty powerful sales pitch to the parents who are thinking of buying it as a gift. The idea that the hundreds of dollars they've already spent will be a total waste once they buy a new machine isn't exactly condusive to making the purchase.

Remember - most people aren't like us (with multiple machines hooked up at once in multiple rooms in the house). A console is a consumer good, just like anything else they might purchase.

Exactly. It seems like Microsoft wants the 360 to have the reputation of being backwards compatible, but not actually BE backwards compatible. If you go around saying that it is, then someone has to have a reasonable expectation that they can walk into a GameStop and pick up a used XBox game and have their 360 play it. It seems to me that many more XBox games DON'T work than do, and if that's the case, then I don't really see why they bothered. How many people want to have to look up a compatibility list online to see if they can buy a particular XBox game? Kinda kills the idea of an impulse buy at a game store. "Wow I would like to pick this game up, but I have to go home first and see if my system will even play it."

Chris

[slip81]

This angers me a bit since I am a new 360 owneer and don't own an original Xbox.

There are tons of games I'd like to play on my 360, and while I don't feel like I wasted money on the new system since there are a bunch of games I already want and lots more on the way, I fell kinda jipped.

There are plenty of really good games they could have added (OutRun, Brothers in Arms, PDO etc.) over some of the crappier ones they did add.

I know I could just get an original Xbox on ebay for less than $100, but honestly, I just bought a new HDTV and a 360 Premium, the girlfriend sin't going to let me get another Xbox anytime soon.

So it looks like I'm waiting 3 years till Xbox's are $50 new so I can play Earned in Blood and OutRun 2 :(

[unwinddesign]

Halo 2 is compatible. As is Ninja Gaiden, Halo, Forza, and Fable. So is the GTA trilogy. And Doom 3.

I hate to break it to a lot of people, but there isn't much incentive for MS to make a lot of games work. Honestly, the list would probably be about 30 or 40 titles long if it didn't happen that Barbie Horse Adventure worked with the emulator for Halo 2.

The majority of non-backwards compatible games can be played on a different system. The few that can't -- i.e. Kingdom Under Fire -- we'll just have to live with. This is a tiny issue blown up to mammoth proportions.

Here's just one question. Why would you EVER buy a new system to play old games? If you want Xbox games, buy a freakin' Xbox! If you want to play Xbox 360 games, then buy an Xbox 360! It's that simple.

[slip81]

Here's just one question. Why would you EVER buy a new system to play old games? If you want Xbox games, buy a freakin' Xbox! If you want to play Xbox 360 games, then buy an Xbox 360! It's that simple.

I didn't buy a 360 to play Xbox games, I bought it to play 360 games, but the fact that they were making games BC was a nice feature because it meant that I could enjoy a great installed library of games in HD with no extra hardware.

It's the same as what Nintendo has done with the DS. Most people don't get the DS as a brighter GBA, but if GBA compatibility was removed people would be upset because (untill the bright GBA SP came out) the DS was a great way to enjoy a great number of games all on one system with a better screen.

I don't has MS or anything, and I agree that if they can't do it right it's best not to do it at all, I'm just a bit sad that I'll have to wait a lot longer to enjoy some good games, and when I do they won't have the benefit of 720p.

[heybtbm]

Here's just one question. Why would you EVER buy a new system to play old games? If you want Xbox games, buy a freakin' Xbox! If you want to play Xbox 360 games, then buy an Xbox 360! It's that simple.

It would be nice if people actually read the previous posts before adding their own 2 cents. That's how the concept of "forum discussion" works.

[LAGO]

The only thing that botheres me on the issue is the fact that MS said they where going to make the 360 BC and they haven't really delivered on that promise.

When I hear BC i'm thinking grab an X-box game and play it on the 360 not well we've got 300 out of 900 games BC. If they weren't going to do it all the way then why even bother in the first place.

[Promophile]

The biggest reason I like BC is because it saves me space. I don't have enough space to have 19 systems hooked up at once, so its nice that the PS2 allows me to play all those PSX RPGs I like. I don't give a damn about hardware; to me its just a vehicle to let me play me true passion, software.

[Garry Silljo]

Did anyone here not buy a SNES because it didn't play NES games? A Saturn because it ddn't play Genesis stuff?

I remember asking my Dad for a Snes (I think I was 12 or something), and he was infuriated the NES games didnt work on it. He said he wouldnt purchase the new system if it didn't incorporate the 100s or 1000s of dollars investment he made in the NES. We eventually got one without him, but this shows the parental mindset on the BC issue.

[unwinddesign]

Here's just one question. Why would you EVER buy a new system to play old games? If you want Xbox games, buy a freakin' Xbox! If you want to play Xbox 360 games, then buy an Xbox 360! It's that simple.

It would be nice if people actually read the previous posts before adding their own 2 cents. That's how the concept of "forum discussion" works.

Newsflash, oh clever one. I read the rest of the posts. I am dumbfounded that people would buy a new system to play old games on it. Convenience, blah blah etc. Same old crap.

If you buy a new system, then you buy it to play new games. The 360 is $400 for an Xbox compatible system. The original Xbox is like $70 or $80 used. It seems to me if you want to play Xbox games, buy an original Xbox. It's not that hard. Or just stop bitching and be happy when MS releases a new update.

The simple fact is, people ride these companies' asses all day long. Be fucking happy about something for once. Christ. If there's a game you can't get by without playing, buy an Xbox, play through it, and then sell the Xbox. Or something. Cut this "I shouldn't have to" crap. I can understand convenience -- it's convenient, yes. But is it all that much of a pain in the ass to drag out the Xbox and hook it up? Some would make it seem this way.

I bought a 360 to play...well, I'm not quite sure, since the games haven't been so hot so far. But I can tell you one thing; if I had only wanted to play Halo 2, I would have kept my original Xbox.

[Lothars]

The simple fact is, people ride these companies' asses all day long. Be fucking happy about something for once. Christ. If there's a game you can't get by without playing, buy an Xbox, play through it, and then sell the Xbox. Or something. Cut this "I shouldn't have to" crap. I can understand convenience -- it's convenient, yes. But is it all that much of a pain in the ass to drag out the Xbox and hook it up? Some would make it seem this way.


you really don't seem to have read the previous posts in the thread

MS promised that you would be able to play most xbox games on the 360 than they say we did to much and don't have to do more,

so basically they failed on a promise that they should have went through with till almost every game was compatible

and yes it's a really big pain to rehook up my xbox for little to no reason when my 360 should be able to play xbox games,

MS screwed up that's all there is to it.

[unwinddesign]

If you read all the posts as you say, then you'd know the answer to that ;) And considering how large the XBOX is, I would think most people would love sending that plastic cinder block to the closet for good for the sake of freeing up some prime shelf space.

You have to be kidding. It's convenient not to pull out the X-Brick, yes. But insanely difficult? Some people act as if it's equivalent to curing AIDS. If you have an Xbox, and it's stored away in the closet, it should take about 10 minutes MAX to pull it out and hook it up. Not a huge deal.




you really don't seem to have read the previous posts in the thread

MS promised that you would be able to play most xbox games on the 360 than they say we did to much and don't have to do more,

Just stop. Stop right there. They said "top-selling" Xbox games. They didn't say "every" game or "all" games. In their E3 announcement of 2K5, they said "top-selling." They didn't get all the "top-selling" games, but they got most of them. They never said "all" or implied "all." If you were expecting close to "all" with such a statement, I am truly blown away.




so basically they failed on a promise that they should have went through with till almost every game was compatible

and yes it's a really big pain to rehook up my xbox for little to no reason when my 360 should be able to play xbox games,

MS screwed up that's all there is to it.

There's a difference between what they said and what you may expect (even if said expectations are completely unfounded...). MS didn't "screw" up; they did exactly what they originally said they were going to do. Granted, they've screwed up the whole "update" thing -- it's been rather sad -- but it does have most "top-selling" games on the list. And that's what they set out to do.

Honestly, people, I KNEW you were going to gun for my ass when I made my posts -- as others have done on different message boards -- but my main question still remains this.

Why are you buying a next-gen system to play last-gen games?