So Sony is just copying everyone now??

[diskoboy]

Xbox 360 - you get achievement points.

Sony - you get 'entitlement points'

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/31/360-achievements-ps3-entitlements/

Congrats, Sony! You have lost all remaining credibility. First you steal the controllers from Nintendo, now this??

No way I'm even gonna debate buying a PS3 now.

[mailman187666]

see me personally don't really care about that type of thing with the games industry, all I care about is how fun it is to play. PS3 looks like its going to be a pretty damned fun system so I am still going to make it on my list of purchases.

[njiska]

What do you mean copying? Can't you see that Microsoft's Acheivement system is actually just a copy of Sony's Entitlement system. I swear evertime i look at the 360 all i can think is, "Why don't you come up with some damned original ideas?"

[Muscelli]

sweet- its copying, but who cares! The more the better!

[Kid Ice]

sweet- its copying, but who cares! The more the better!

Yeah, that's my frame of mind. I appreciate innovation and doing something different but...if it works, use it. Back in the day a big knock on Intellivision was that Mattel was "just copying" Atari.

[poloplayr]

Dn't forget the controller/force feedback lawsuits that Sony lost and had to pay settlements for...

[heybtbm]

Ha! Entitlements?

Does Sony Japan have any idea of what the definition of "entitlements" is? How can they use a word that means the exact opposite of achievement? This is too funny.

Entitlements. You don't earn them, you deserve them. Perfect concept for the youth of America.

[Gamereviewgod]

Well, my life is over.

I'll probably need more assistance from Johnny Rock...

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Fucking get over it. This isn't a good enough reason for anyone to say they've lost respect for a company. There are other reasons, dont get me wrong, but this (and hell, even the controller thing) aren't any of the big issues, because they are giving more to the consumer.

The achivement points are something fans of the 360 like. It's an over-all score card. Why cant Sony do the same? It's just more features for those who buy it. Same with the controller thing. It's like 1/8th of what the Wiimote does (Wiimote has 360 degree movement, knows where it's being pointed, has a speaker on it, has a rumble feature, list goes on) and it, again, is something extra for the consumer.

[NintendoMan]

sweet- its copying, but who cares! The more the better!

Oh yeah, more of the same is awesome!

[Kid Ice]

sweet- its copying, but who cares! The more the better!

Oh yeah, more of the same is awesome!

More of the same good stuff...yes it is.

[kainemaxwell]

Typical practice amoung the business world to copy/steal others ideas. Sony's just taken it way too far and you'd think they learned their lesson after the Dual Shock lawsuits...

[Mangar]

I so don't care

[Juganawt]

The only thing these "Entitlements" will entitle sony to is a lawsuit when they realise that Microsoft patented the Achievement system.

Fucking leeching bastards... My disdain for Sony's business practices grows the more and more I hear about PS3.

If the machine's anything less than UberMegaFantasticalThatMakes360AndWiiLookLikeACole co they can go fuck emselves.

[gepeto]

It doesn't matter at this point because at the 600 dollar price tag the unpaid reserve systems will be sitting on the shelf with instead of getting played.


The only ones online will be the reviewers fanboys and nuts like me. Now that I think of it Sony's online is suppose to be free. Are the adding the price in with the system? Or is the bait on the end of the hook.

Somebody's gotta pay for the service to support it.

I smell a launch shortage to remove the embarrassment of stocked shelves.

Was there ever a system that was in demand that didn't have a shortage at launch? I can't remember.

I must give it to microsoft there vision was spot on. They said broadband only. It worked. They charged 50.00 a year for live and it supports the infrastructure.

You can copy but nothing is like the original.

[aaronpetrosky]

It's hard to be original anymore. I still don't understand the hate for Sony.

[Griking]

It's hard to be original anymore.

Nobody ever said it was. It still doesn't make it right to steal someone else's idea and use it as your own.

[lordnikon]

Yea and how sony has the EyeToy, with that visual recognition interactive card game demo they showed off at E3!!! They totally stole that!!!! I bet Seg.... er.... Nin.... er.... Micro...er

:deadhorse:

wait

I think that was all Sony right there.

Seriously though, Sony is just getting ragged on because at this stage in the console generation, it is a juicy headline to say "Sony is stealing ideas from everyone else". If the system was on the market right now this wouldn't even be an issue. However because the Playstation 3 is NOT on the market, this is a hot topic to discuss. To discredit the PS3 now, would make certain peoples lives easier. You could scratch it off your "to buy" list, and it would be one less thing to worry about. Plus, many people put down another console to feel better about their existing purchase. Hey, if you rationalize the other console as being crap, your existing purchase has to be the correct one right?

To say that you won't be buying a console, before the hardware, games, and peripherals are even on the market, is the biggest pile of BS ever. The odds are high that some game will come out on the system that you just have to play, or some feature will be there that will make you want to buy the system. Hell, a lot of people leave their house and are flat out BORED, and are looking for someone to take their money in exchange for a cardboard box full of electronics.

Wait and see what happens. When all 3 consoles are on the market, then make the decision that you will never buy Console X for as long as you live. It makes a lot more sense this way.

[aaronpetrosky]

Very good points lordnikon

[THATinkjar]

'Entitlements', eh? Sony are probably planning to charge us as we earn these, as they probably believe they are entitled to our money whenever they please. :evil:

[Ed Oscuro]

Typical practice amoung the business world to copy/steal others ideas. Sony's just taken it way too far and you'd think they learned their lesson after the Dual Shock lawsuits...
Why? Is Microsoft going to go sue them for stealing an obvious system? LOL

Everybody who says that Sony is "stealing" and that they "need to stop" really needs to go outside and take a walk (or, since it's too hot out...maybe just spend more time playing games instead of bitching).

[THATinkjar]

Why? Is Microsoft going to go sue them for stealing an obvious system? LOL

By "obvious system"... are you referring to the 360's Achievements feature? Because - if you are - why would you consider this feature to be an "obvious" one?

Life has existed for billions of years, and yet this idea was only introduced last November. It is Microsoft's idea - plain and simple.

But - just for the record - I don't care that Sony will have 'Entitlements' as part of the PlayStation 3. They are right to try and give the gamer the best possible experience, and this can only add to that.

[jdc]

Entitlement Points?

This is GREAT news. One of the reasons that I wasn't going to buy a PS3 is because I have become VERY hooked on the Achievement Points that I get with my 360. Now I'll reconsider on the PS3....eventually. Nothing against Sony, I'm actually going out today to FINALLY buy a slimline PS2. LOL

[njiska]

Fucking get over it. This isn't a good enough reason for anyone to say they've lost respect for a company. There are other reasons, dont get me wrong, but this (and hell, even the controller thing) aren't any of the big issues, because they are giving more to the consumer.

The achivement points are something fans of the 360 like. It's an over-all score card. Why cant Sony do the same? It's just more features for those who buy it. Same with the controller thing. It's like 1/8th of what the Wiimote does (Wiimote has 360 degree movement, knows where it's being pointed, has a speaker on it, has a rumble feature, list goes on) and it, again, is something extra for the consumer.

The reason why i'm giving Sony shit over this is because of the words of Kaz Hiari. In an offical interview he stated that Microsoft is always copying Sony, just one step behind.

That's just a fucking lie and now every time Sony copies microsoft they're going to have to pay the price.

[mailman187666]

I think one of the reasons Sony is getting so much crap about everything they do lately is because a lot of people aren't going to be able to afford the PS3. Take 16 yo little Billy (just an example). He wants a PS3 but he can only afford what his parents are willing to get him on christmas. A lot of middle-class parents aren't going to spend the money on that system, but instead are going to get a 360 or wii for little Billy. Billy knows that he'd have to settle for one of the other systems. At a certain age, kids are like "what I have is the best reguardless of peoples opinions and actual fact." So some of the kids that want to bash PS3 or Sony is because they know they aren't going to be able to get one for a very long time, which causes them to find reasons to nit-pick the system to make it ok in thier mind that they aren't going to get a PS3, so what ends up happening is they end up hating on it. But if they were to get that PS3 under thier x-mas tree that year after all the hate, I bet thier hate would quickly wither away once they plugged it in. This is actually one of the reasons why we have the term "fanboy" out there. This may not always be the case, but me personally am going to have the 360-wii-ps3 trio sitting in my room. Most likely I'll play them all and love them all equally....why? because eveantualy I'll be able to afford them all.

[dbiersdorf]

Yea and how sony has the EyeToy, with that visual recognition interactive card game demo they showed off at E3!!! They totally stole that!!!! I bet Seg.... er.... Nin.... er.... Micro...er

:deadhorse:

wait

I think that was all Sony right there.

Well actually Nintendo showed off Stage Debut for the GameCube before the EyeToy was ever announced. Sony beat Nintendo to the market and Stage Debut was canned. So I don't know that point you made is kind of moot when you look at it like that.

[heybtbm]

instead are going to get a 360 or wii for little Billy. Billy knows that he'd have to settle for one of the other systems.

Getting a 360 is never "settling".

That being said, I still stand by my prediction that 85% of people on this board convinced that they won't get a PS3, will have one by the end of 2008.

[Lothars]

instead are going to get a 360 or wii for little Billy. Billy knows that he'd have to settle for one of the other systems.

Getting a 360 is never "settling".

That being said, I still stand by my prediction that 85% of people on this board convinced that they won't get a PS3, will have one by the end of 2008.

I agree fully

I will eventually own a PS3 but probaly not at launch,

I just don't understand all the hate for Sony

and Diskoboy, your bias is really sickening

O Sony stole all these Ideas, man the controller is not stolen from Nintendo, dude grow up.

[unwinddesign]

Meh, who really cares. I could see this coming. The thing is, Sony hasn't really innovated a lot in their tenure. They've built a better mouse-trap -- i.e. the evolution of the Dual Shock pad, the PS1's graphical capabilities etc. -- but they haven't really come up with much on their own. They just did things better. Now, they aren't really doing things better -- they're just imitating, and they seem like they're floundering. That's why people are riding their ass.

It goes in cycles. People were riding MS' ass just a few years back for the Xbox, which was "such a copy off of Sony's Playstation" and "just released because Sony did it first."

If the games are fun to play, it's all moot anyway.

[lordnikon]

Yea and how sony has the EyeToy, with that visual recognition interactive card game demo they showed off at E3!!! They totally stole that!!!! I bet Seg.... er.... Nin.... er.... Micro...er

:deadhorse:

wait

I think that was all Sony right there.

Well actually Nintendo showed off Stage Debut for the GameCube before the EyeToy was ever announced. Sony beat Nintendo to the market and Stage Debut was canned. So I don't know that point you made is kind of moot when you look at it like that.
I am not talking about just the EyeToy. Sega had the Dreameye long before Stage Debut or EyeToy.

I am talking about a demo Sony had at E3. You can see it by watching the E3 press conference for 2006. It was a game called "Eye of Judgement", which lets you place down cards, and the eyetoy will recognize what type of card that is, and then a 3D monster will spawn above that card on the screen.

You can interact with it, with your hand. Move it around on the grid, as well as make it perform certain attacks.

A collectable card game would no longer just be you and your friend sitting across from each other at some table. Now the actual physical cards will spawn a whole world on the screen as you are playing the game.

It is conceivable that they could do that crazy chess like game from star wars. (That would be so awesome)

[Push Upstairs]

I just realized that the PS3 will use circular, disc-based media *JUST LIKE THE XBOX 360*!!!

THOSE COPYING BASTARDS!!!




:roll: at this entire thread.

[aaronpetrosky]

Yea I just heard too that ps3 will be using a controller for the system. What a joke Sony is.

[Richter Belmount]

to answer the topic title












Yes.

[njiska]

I just realized that the PS3 will use circular, disc-based media *JUST LIKE THE XBOX 360*!!!

THOSE COPYING BASTARDS!!!




:roll: at this entire thread.

It's a justified thread. Even the Guardian seems to agree:

Rather than dampening down the overheated online arguments about all these issues, Sony's staff have tended to feed the flames, appearing remote or even arrogant. For example, Kaz Hirai, president and chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment America, recently told PlayStation Magazine: "Every time we go down a path, we look behind and [Microsoft is] right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do."

It's a remark that Hirai might have got away with in an earlier age, but it was instantly dismembered online. Microsoft was first to put a hard drive in a console, and pioneered with its Xbox Live community building (or both Microsoft and Sony are following the Sega Dreamcast). Microsoft was first to do a global console launch, which Sony is emulating. Microsoft offered two versions of its Xbox 360 console - which Sony said was a bad idea - but there will be two versions of the PS3, and so on.

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1835502,00.html

[Linuxfox00]

Dude it doesn't even matter xbox 360's are no good any ways. I like it it's just Microsoft shouldn't have rushed the launch. It runs way to hot and when i was playing Oblivian it was locking up every so often anyways so much for wireless shutdown. We will just see if sony doesn't make to same dum mistake of having a hot running console.

[Push Upstairs]

It's a justified thread.

see quote below.


If the games are fun to play, it's all moot anyway.

Quoted for its undeniable truth.

[njiska]

It's a justified thread.

see quote below.


If the games are fun to play, it's all moot anyway.

Quoted for its undeniable truth.

I completely agree that it's all about the games. but that doesn't make the point that Sony is copying ideas moot. My gripe is strictly one of business practices, specifically the ones following Kaz Hirai's statement. Well that may have nothing to do with the quality of the games or whether or not it should be purchased, it is a point worth discussing.

[Xizer]

$ony's always sucked. I don't know why you're so surprised. They've always been unoriginal thieves. Their hardware is always overhyped, and when it comes out, it ends up being a piece of shit.

Just look at the trainwreck that was the PS2. Disc read errors galore. Remember when Sony tried a "wait and see" strategy? Yeah, I bought a Dreamcast...then I saw the PS2...it was complete garbage. Only two controller ports? Toy Story graphics? So much for better online...there wasn't even a way to hook up your PS2 to the Internet for years.

The PS1 was pretty awful too. Like its successor, it launched defective. The launch PS2's literally melted themselves, and the lasers died fast.

Then there's always the controller, which has blown ass for years. Angled, split up d-pad with buttons as hard as rocks? Yeah, nice going there, dipshits. That's really comfortable for controlling games when you compare it to the Genesis's or SNES's d-pad. Then there's the analog sticks which they tacked on in 1998 in a desperate attempt to keep up with Nintendo's N64 controller. Too bad they failed at doing that right too, placing them under the primary thumb position, and putting pitiful grips on them.

Let's have a look at the PSP. Once again, Sony launches a system with numerous defects. Flying UMDs. Dead pixels galore. Square button problems. Once again they've created a control scheme that blows ass, with an analog nub awkwardly placed with which your thumbs are always slipping off. Another brilliant design choice there, Sony! So much for being an excellent 3D handheld when it's more comfortable to use the d-pad over an analog stick.

I have no doubt in my mind that the PS3 will be the most defective system Sony has ever launched. Looking at their past history, how it's going to be the first thing to use Blu-ray (DVDs were around for years before the PS2 was out, and look at how bad the DREs on that thing were), how it's going to be $600 vs. $1000 for a good Blu-ray player...it's obviously they're going to be putting in a laser even shittier than the PS2's DVD laser.

Even if the PS3, by some miracle, isn't defective, I'm still not buying one because those assholes at Sony are using the same shitty controller design they've been using the past 10 years! After playing the GameCube, Xbox, and Xbox 360 with their respective controllers, there is no way I can go back to the primitive and imprecise DualShock.

I have to use third party controllers on my PS1 or PS2 for it to be even somewhat bearable. I really hate the PS2. It's an unnecessary system. The Xbox and GameCube do everything it does, better. Far more powerful. More controller ports. It's just an unnecessary piece of hardware. If the PS2 didn't exist, all the great games on it everyone raves about would be on the GameCube and Xbox and they'd be so much better with more power, faster loading times, and better controllers. It's not like Sony contributes much in the way of first party games.

The PS3 is going to be in the exact same situation. It's an unnecessary piece of hardware when the Wii and Xbox 360 exist. You're a fool if you really believe the PS3 is a lot more powerful than the Xbox 360 - do you not remember the PS2 fiasco? Sony hyped the PS2 like it was the second coming of Jesus, but the Dreamcast bested it in terms of graphical capabilities for years. The same is happening with the PS3.

[Xizer]

double post wth

[Anthony1]

dude it doesn't even matter xbox 360's are no good any ways i like them just just shouldn't have rused the dev. it runs way to hot and when i was playing oblivian it was locking up every so often anyways so much for wireless shutdown will just see if sony doesn't make to same dum mistake of having a hot running console.



feel free to take some "english as a second language" classes, and insert a comma here or there.

[Richter Belmount]

Yeah really ^

[Anthony1]

Regarding the actual topic, I think that the decision makers at Sony and Nintendo would have to be absolute idiots to not ripoff achievements, gamerscore and the all the ideas surrounding Xbox Live Marketplace and Xbox Live Arcade. Now, from our point of view, this blatant concept stealing looks pretty bad, and makes you kinda think a little bit less of Sony, or whoever else decides to copy it, but in the business world, you have to emulate successful ideas like that. If somebody is being very succesfull in a certain market, and you are going to be entering that market, you have to at least provide the same level of service, or you are going to have problems.


If Sony didn't have some form of Achievement points, and some form of a Gamerscore, then many PS3 owners would bitch about the fact that it DIDN'T HAVE IT, and should have it. So, it's kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario for Sony. Again, if Sony is going to enter the Next-Gen ring with the 360, then they need to have their game up to the level of Microsoft. Xbox Live Marketplace has been tremendously successful, and the concept behind achievement points and Gamerscore, has been a runaway hit. Sony has no choice in the matter, they have to copy that to stay at an even level. Same thing with Nintendo. The only difference with Nintendo is that the management has so much pride, probably too much pride, that they probably will have a very hard time copying this American company and their Achievement points, but I think Nintendo will eventually give their customers what they want, and if Wii customers want some type of achievement point type thing, then Nintendo will eventually follow suit and come out with a similar program. It's kinda like when you get to a certain level, then things need to be at a certain standard, and achievement points (or whatever name you want to call them), seem to be a "mandatory" thing for this new generation. Sony and Nintendo will both follow suit. Sony already has, and Nintendo will drag their feet, but I'm sure they will eventually cave into consumer demand as well.

[Richter Belmount]

Heh I wont though mgs4 is like the only ps3 game I want right now thats it.

[lordnikon]

So much for better online...there wasn't even a way to hook up your PS2 to the Internet for years.
The Playstation 2's first online title was released in October of 2001 in the form of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3. Also, it is important to note that while Sony was still sorting out their online plans during launch, they had I.LINK for local network play going right out of the gate.

The Playstation 2 is actually the perfect fallback system if one was a fan of Dreamcast Online.

[Push Upstairs]

I completely agree that it's all about the games. but that doesn't make the point that Sony is copying ideas moot. My gripe is strictly one of business practices, specifically the ones following Kaz Hirai's statement. Well that may have nothing to do with the quality of the games or whether or not it should be purchased, it is a point worth discussing.

What video game company hasn't had shady business practices?

As for Kaz and the BS he says, he can go eat a large helping of "shut the fuck up" for all i care.

Sony going online and Sony having a points system like MS is certainly the last things i'd be basing my overall criticism of Sony on. MS found the magic forumula for taking consoles online and from this point on any company that seriously considers taking thier game system online will have a similar setup simply because it's proven it works.

I have no problem with Sony using proven technology and ideas to help make money (since that is the point, to make money) but i do draw the line at claims that they are innovative when it's plain to see someone did it first or better.

[odyeiop]

Not like I was planning on getting a PS3 anytime soon anyways. I'll either get one if I win one, or if the price drops a lot. As a student it's just not something that I can afford, and even if I weren't a student, it's not something I'm overly interested in. After I get a Wii.. I'll get a 360, which has some awesome games coming up, and then eventually a PS3... but that's a long ways off.

Oh well.

[lordnikon]

Sony going online and Sony having a points system like MS is certainly the last things i'd be basing my overall criticism of Sony on. MS found the magic forumula for taking consoles online and from this point on any company that seriously considers taking thier game system online will have a similar setup simply because it's proven it works.
Well, there are a lot of misconceptions about the course of online console gaming during this generation. For xbox owners, the Live online service is something they are very vocal about, especially on the Internet. It is difficult for people respond with parallels between The PS2 and the Xbox in terms of online, simply because Sony doesn't provide any concise information about PS2 online as a whole. They never have, and they have no clue what games are still online and which ones are not.

Users are not informed enough. The industry has no record of how many PS2 games are online, what features they support, and whether they are cross region compatible. Neither does Sony.

This paints a false image of the system. For all anyone knows, the PS2 could have only 20 online titles. The majority of people out there do not know the Playstation 2's true online capabilities. Which is a shame really. And it is all Sony's fault for not tracking this information, and providing a more complete presentation of what the PS2 is capable of.

Xbox Live has definitely proven to work, but it isn't the definative online setup. In-fact, the definative setup that facilitates more players online, is that of PC online gaming. An open network. This is exactly what Sony used as a base for the PS2's online setup. One of the drawbacks to Xbox Live is that every single online title follows the same standard. With an open network, there is room for anomolies. There are Playstation 2 titles that have triple the online functions of any xbox live title, simply because the developers are not bound to a specific standard. However there are also PS2 titles that have a very bare bones setup.

I have been tracking the nature of online gaming for the past 3+ years. The proven formula for online gameplay, can be found in the PC realm. To break the threshold and get double or more players online than are on today, a company needs to follow the PC model. One of the keys to this is dedicated server software that can be run on a PC, and is released to users. Next after this would be more user interaction in terms of mods and map making. Letting users get creative and take that creativity online, pumps life-blood back into a game.

Not many people know this, but there are currently a total of just 4 online console games that have dedicated server software released to the community by developers. 1 on the Dreamcast, and 3 on the Playstation 2.

The first company to start taking more cues from PC online gaming will really start to take off with online gaming. I am not saying the features that MS already uses should be dropped, as they have already proven successfull in the past by GameSpy, with their GameSpy Arcade software.

I will be dissapointed if Sony runs a closed network with the PS3. It is taking 2 steps back. I will assume they will go with a closed network, and not integrate some of the good parts of PS2 online, simply because they have no idea what made it successfull (not many do). It will be an interesting fact if years from now there are still only 4 console games with publically released dedicated server software.

[jajaja]

First you steal the controllers from Nintendo, now this??

Did some Sony representative run up under a Wii presentation and stole the controller or am i missing something? Or do you mean the tilt feature that is like 6-7 years old? Or maybe the slashing feature the Onimusha 3 controller had in 2002, 3 years before Nintendo even showed the Wii controller?

[aaronpetrosky]

Just ignore Xizer's posts. They don't make sense, they sound like they are written by some little kid and the fact all he does is complain.

[Ed Oscuro]

dude it doesn't even matter xbox 360's are no good any ways i like them just just shouldn't have rused the dev. it runs way to hot and when i was playing oblivian it was locking up every so often anyways so much for wireless shutdown will just see if sony doesn't make to same dum mistake of having a hot running console.
feel free to take some "english as a second language" classes, and insert a comma here or there.
Oh my GOD, an Anthony1 post that isn't filled with unnecessarily long paragraphs? Wonders never cease. *COMES EVERYWHERE*[/sidetrack]

jajaja: There was also that Dragon Warrior direct-to-TV system that I never picked up. But anyway, these systems seem to have been pretty primitive in comparison to the Wii controller.

Anyway, I think the real issue is that Sony is doing a horrible job of PR, and Lordnikon hits on a facet of that: Sony hasn't been big on producing awareness of PS2 gaming for whatever reason (partly could be because PS2 gaming online is a far less complete-feeling experience than the Live system).

[Richter Belmount]

forget it

[Dangerboy]

http://www.game-rave.com/ps3/index.html

: )

[Hep038]

Just ignore Xizer's posts. They don't make sense, they sound like they are written by some little kid and the fact all he does is complain.

This should be posted in the FAQ section.

[aaronpetrosky]

lol that would be nice I never seen anyone like him before.

[jajaja]

Ed Oscuro: Ye, might be, but its still the same concept :)
You also have some boxing gloves you can connect to the TV and box with the opponent on the screen.

Im so tired that people scream out "Sony/MS/Nintendo sux!" just because one of them have something simular to the other. Seriously, for the consumer, why does it matter?
Its like when the first car who could do 150mph were made, then another car came that also could do 150mph. Should everyone scream out "omg the new car sux!!"?

Someone have to be first with something. Everyone cant come up with the same idea at the same time. Imagine how it would be if no one could come up with a simular idea. I.E PS2 was first with DVD, shouldnt GC and Xbox be allowed to have DVD too? Or did they steal that idea from Sony? :roll:

[Bronty-2]

Meh. Between the attitude and the price tag, its easy to be pissed at sony right now :)

[JPeeples]

Especially if you've had a lot of problems with their hardware, and see them charging twice as much as before - when issues will likely creep up with them as well.

[jajaja]

Just alittle sidenote to the price.
Here (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/07/31/mercury_announces_cell_accelerator_board/) you can see the price on the Cell CPU. This is alittle faster than the PS3 Cell CPU, but it do cost about $8000! PS3 cost $600 and then you havnt counted the price for the BR-player and all the other stuff.

[tritium]

Yea and how sony has the EyeToy, with that visual recognition interactive card game demo they showed off at E3!!! They totally stole that!!!! I bet Seg.... er.... Nin.... er.... Micro...er

:deadhorse:

wait

I think that was all Sony right there.


Umm the dreamcast has a camera in Japan. And those sort of games have existed on the PC forever. Quite a few came with my Intel camera in 2001.

[jajaja]

I wish people would do more research before they start to scream out "stolen!". The concept of the Wii controller is not brand new. Whats new is that the controller is standard for the upcomming games. Previously controllers like this have been extra accessories.

[DonMarco]

Don't forget the speaker in the controller. That's pretty new.

[segarocks30]

Lol, yet no one says "OMGZ, THE WII STOLE THE XBL ARCADE!!!????!!!11" LOL

I could give a shit about who copies who, if the games for it are good, then I'll buy it. But Maybe it's about time people should stop complaining about the pS3 price. It's called "Be patient and wait for '08 or '09." I heavily disagree with Sony's Blu Ray process, it's pretty unecessary....

I plan on getting a Wii though. Hell the virtual console game copies the XBL arcade a little bit, but i want to try out innovative hardware.

In the end, I will probably hold all three systems...

[tritium]

I suspect consoles are NOT test beds for the newest technology. Particularly because of their long life cycles. Things usually get tested out in arcades, as accessories or on PC's.... from my personal experience.

so the uniqueness of any console experience is probably just the game and not the hardware.

the wii controller is an extension of lightgun and powerglove technology no?

I do think the Wii is the most unique, at least by name.

[Bronty-2]

Just alittle sidenote to the price.
Here (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/07/31/mercury_announces_cell_accelerator_board/) you can see the price on the Cell CPU. This is alittle faster than the PS3 Cell CPU, but it do cost about $8000! PS3 cost $600 and then you havnt counted the price for the BR-player and all the other stuff.

Yeah, but we're buying game machines not standalone processors..

[jajaja]

Well.. what u pay for is the hardware and all the expences around it. Better hardware = more money, just like Neo Geo back in the days :)

[GarrettCRW]

Don't forget the speaker in the controller. That's pretty new.

It was new in 1983, on the Famicom.

[lordnikon]

Yea and how sony has the EyeToy, with that visual recognition interactive card game demo they showed off at E3!!! They totally stole that!!!! I bet Seg.... er.... Nin.... er.... Micro...er

:deadhorse:

wait

I think that was all Sony right there.


Umm the dreamcast has a camera in Japan. And those sort of games have existed on the PC forever. Quite a few came with my Intel camera in 2001.
* gets slightly frustrated * Yes I know. I already replied to this very same point. You should have read page 2 of this thread discussion.

You can find my reply here:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1042507#1042507

Since people are also lazy, I will repost it in this thread as well:



Yea and how sony has the EyeToy, with that visual recognition interactive card game demo they showed off at E3!!! They totally stole that!!!! I bet Seg.... er.... Nin.... er.... Micro...er

:deadhorse:

wait

I think that was all Sony right there.

Well actually Nintendo showed off Stage Debut for the GameCube before the EyeToy was ever announced. Sony beat Nintendo to the market and Stage Debut was canned. So I don't know that point you made is kind of moot when you look at it like that.
I am not talking about just the EyeToy. Sega had the Dreameye long before Stage Debut or EyeToy.

I am talking about a demo Sony had at E3. You can see it by watching the E3 press conference for 2006. It was a game called "Eye of Judgement", which lets you place down cards, and the eyetoy will recognize what type of card that is, and then a 3D monster will spawn above that card on the screen.

You can interact with it, with your hand. Move it around on the grid, as well as make it perform certain attacks.

A collectable card game would no longer just be you and your friend sitting across from each other at some table. Now the actual physical cards will spawn a whole world on the screen as you are playing the game.

It is conceivable that they could do that crazy chess like game from star wars. (That would be so awesome)

[jajaja]

Don't forget the speaker in the controller. That's pretty new.

It was new in 1983, on the Famicom.

I think it was a microphone, not a speaker. What was it used for anyway?

[diskoboy]

It's a justified thread.

see quote below.


If the games are fun to play, it's all moot anyway.

Quoted for its undeniable truth.

I completely agree that it's all about the games. but that doesn't make the point that Sony is copying ideas moot. My gripe is strictly one of business practices, specifically the ones following Kaz Hirai's statement. Well that may have nothing to do with the quality of the games or whether or not it should be purchased, it is a point worth discussing.

Thank you, Njiska.. That was my point, exactly.

Yeah... I guess all the fanboys have come out to play. It's Sony saying "Nintendo and Microsoft are copying us", when it's obviously the other way around. Nintendo may not have invented the motion controllers, but they were the first to use it as a main feature on the console itself. When eveyone seemed intruiged by Nintendo's idea to use them for the Wii, Sony saw their market base moving over to the big 'N', and suddenly their contollers mysteriously have motion sensors in them? I'd pretty much say that's stealing an idea... Now staling M$'s idea for the achievement points?

Sony hasn't innovated anything when it comes to gaming. EVER. Nintendo has. Microsoft being (pardon the pun) in the game for such a short time has.

And just like the PS2, if I see a title I'd probably enjoy, I'd buy one WAAAAY down the road (I'm talking $99 or less). But one single title is not going to convince me to buy a $600 machine. Especially one that keeps throwing out only RPG's one after the other.

It's stealing. Plain as day.

[zerohero]

It's a justified thread.

see quote below.


If the games are fun to play, it's all moot anyway.

Quoted for its undeniable truth.

I completely agree that it's all about the games. but that doesn't make the point that Sony is copying ideas moot. My gripe is strictly one of business practices, specifically the ones following Kaz Hirai's statement. Well that may have nothing to do with the quality of the games or whether or not it should be purchased, it is a point worth discussing.

Thank you, Njiska.. That was my point, exactly.

Yeah... I guess all the fanboys have come out to play. It's Sony saying "Nintendo and Microsoft are copying us", when it's obviously the other way around. Nintendo may not have invented the motion controllers, but they were the first to use it as a main feature on the console itself. When eveyone seemed intruiged by Nintendo's idea to use them for the Wii, Sony saw their market base moving over to the big 'N', and suddenly their contollers mysteriously have motion sensors in them? I'd pretty much say that's stealing an idea... Now staling M$'s idea for the achievement points?

Sony hasn't innovated anything when it comes to gaming. EVER. Nintendo has. Microsoft being (pardon the pun) in the game for such a short time has.

And just like the PS2, if I see a title I'd probably enjoy, I'd buy one WAAAAY down the road (I'm talking $99 or less). But one single title is not going to convince me to buy a $600 machine. Especially one that keeps throwing out only RPG's one after the other.

It's stealing. Plain as day.

Hold up now, Sony pioneered the dual shock controller from my understanding before nintendo's rumble pack. I'm no Sony fanboy, but you gotta give credit where it is due.

[jajaja]

How many days after the Wii controller was shown did Sony announce their tilt function? It was very long atleast. Do people really think that Sony made this tilt function in a couple of days? Who knows, maybe they have been working on it for a year or two.

I really wish people would think alittle further and do some more research before screaming out stealing. And there is a big difference between inspiration and stealing. Or do people here want copyright on big things like vibration function etc? Its seems popular to talk shit about big companies today and people throwing themself on the wave, unfortunatly.

[zerohero]

How many days after the Wii controller was shown did Sony announce their tilt function? It was very long atleast. Do people really think that Sony made this tilt function in a couple of days? Who knows, maybe they have been working on it for a year or two.

I really wish people would think alittle further and do some more research before screaming out stealing. And there is a big difference between inspiration and stealing. Or do people here want copyright on big things like vibration function etc? Its seems popular to talk shit about big companies today and people throwing themself on the wave, unfortunatly.

Come to think of it, didn't Sony anounce something special about its controller way before Nintendo did anything like that? I remember reading an article about it on gamespot.

[lordnikon]

Yeah... I guess all the fanboys have come out to play.
I don't think so. The majority of people posting in this thread have made some valid points. There were a few bad apple type posts in the thread, but most have been carrying on a rational discussion. Just because people arn't agreeing with you, doesn't make them fanboys.

[j_factor]

Hold up now, Sony pioneered the dual shock controller from my understanding before nintendo's rumble pack. I'm no Sony fanboy, but you gotta give credit where it is due.

Nope, the dual shock wasn't released until 1998. The N64 rumble pack debuted with Star Fox 64, in 1997.

I don't think vibration was a huge innovation either way -- force feedback steering wheels had already been around for years, and there had been vibrating controllers on PC, IIRC.

[jajaja]

Dont forget the Dual Analog controller :) Dual Analog uses 1 enigne for the rumble, Dual Shock uses 2. Dual Analog was released in April 1997 (dont know the date). Star Fox 64 was released 27. April 1997. I dont know who was first, but the gap between the release is very small atleast. Again, something like this isnt made in a few days or weeks, it takes many many months to research, develope and test. So both Nintendo and Sony were working on the rumble feature before anyone of them was released.