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Thread: Is the PS2 capable of 2D?

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    Peach (Level 3) Cinder6's Avatar
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    Default Is the PS2 capable of 2D?

    Or even the PS3, for that matter?

    By "capable", I mean true 2D, instead of plastering sprites on invisible polygons. I know the PS1 couldn't do true 2D, but I'm not sure about the two successors. Anyone know?
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    This is the first I've heard that PS1 can't do "true 2D". Assuming that's true, both the PS1 and PS2 had numerous retro compilations, so I guess "through emulation" would be one answer.

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    Uh....the PSX and it's next of kin can all do true 2D...

    Ya know, Guilty Gear....Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat....all lovely sprite based games...real honest 2D sprites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerboy View Post
    Uh....the PSX and it's next of kin can all do true 2D...

    Ya know, Guilty Gear....Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat....all lovely sprite based games...real honest 2D sprites.
    Not as well as Sega Saturn. If you play Street Fighter Alpha 2 on both systems, there is a world of difference.

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    ServBot (Level 11) roushimsx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkn55 View Post
    Not as well as Sega Saturn. If you play Street Fighter Alpha 2 on both systems, there is a world of difference.
    RAM is a motherfucker, isn't it?

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    What I've read is that the PS1 doesn't have the capability of doing 2D games in the sense that the NES, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, etc. could. It would emulate the behavior by using transparent polygons on a very wide, very thin vertical plane, then slap sprites onto them. This is obviously not the greatest way to do it, as you have the system doing calculations for polygons that are never even seen.

    Here's where I first read about it, on VGMuseum (and it undoubtedly explains it better than I):

    http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-sotn/...turne-port.htm

    It deals specifically with the Saturn port of Symphony of the Night, but goes into the details of the PS1's lack of real 2D capabilities.
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    Playstation consoles have been far from the most capable 2D machines, yet they have some of the most impressive and gorgeous games in the medium available. Look at Valkyrie Profile (PS1) and Odin Sphere (PS2).

    On the 2D hardware front Saturn whooped ass on the PS1 and Dreamcast kicked PS2 in the grapes. Popularity and success (read: install base!) outstrips hardware design and capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinder6
    What I've read is that the PS1 doesn't have the capability of doing 2D games in the sense that the NES, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, etc. could. It would emulate the behavior by using transparent polygons on a very wide, very thin vertical plane, then slap sprites onto them.
    If this is indeed the case then it isn't dealing with spites at all. They're polygon textures. Lots of wasted effort and inefficient. Still better than a software sprite engine I'd imagine.
    Last edited by Icarus Moonsight; 09-04-2007 at 12:58 AM.


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    Is it me or is that VgMuseum article completely BS?

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    Try SOTN on Saturn. There is lots of slowdown. I'm not sure if it's true but, it stands to reason. If the game was made in "true" 2D the Saturn version port would surely run better than the PS1 version. The Saturn being less capable at 3D than the PS1 means it chokes on the game. There is also the possibility of a botched port job though. They do happen.
    Last edited by Icarus Moonsight; 09-04-2007 at 02:05 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus Moonsight View Post
    There is also the possibility of a botched port job though. They do happen.
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Of course we can't base opinions on a single game (either pro or con).

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    I was under the distinct impression that the PS1 CPU was perfectly capable of handling 2D sprites as well as polygons. I guess I could be wrong, though....

    The author of the article in question flatly states that, and I quote: "Please note that this is all theory and speculation". We could probably broaden that to include his '2D polygon' theory, which in pure programming terms, is the dumbest and least processor-efficient way to handle sprite animation I can think of.

    Just for the record, I think the crap port of SotN to Saturn had more to do with the Saturn's notoriously difficult to program for dual CPU's. Think the Cell Processor troubles that developers are having with the PS3 and you won't be too far off.

    G-Boobie, out.

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    Look at Street Fighter Alpha 3 on the PS1. Aside from load times (which weren't bad at all) & a few missing frames of animation it was pretty damn solid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-1000 View Post
    Look at Street Fighter Alpha 3 on the PS1. Aside from load times (which weren't bad at all) & a few missing frames of animation it was pretty damn solid.
    I still much prefer the Dreamcast version.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-1000 View Post
    Look at Street Fighter Alpha 3 on the PS1. Aside from load times (which weren't bad at all) & a few missing frames of animation it was pretty damn solid.
    As much as I like Alpha 3 on the PS1, it's garbage compared to the Saturn version (which isn't really a fair comparison since the Saturn version uses the 4 Meg RAM cart).

    I even prefer the Saturn version to the Dreamcast version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smashy View Post
    As much as I like Alpha 3 on the PS1, it's garbage compared to the Saturn version (which isn't really a fair comparison since the Saturn version uses the 4 Meg RAM cart).

    I even prefer the Saturn version to the Dreamcast version.
    That RAM cart helps! Great game, none the less!

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    What do you mean with true 2d? Consoles like NES with 1.7MHz and 2KB RAM can do 2d, so clearly a console with like 1000 times more power can do 2d too

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    It's all about the game engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smashy View Post
    As much as I like Alpha 3 on the PS1, it's garbage compared to the Saturn version (which isn't really a fair comparison since the Saturn version uses the 4 Meg RAM cart).

    I even prefer the Saturn version to the Dreamcast version.
    I don't think we ever got a Saturn version of Alpha 3 stateside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8-bitNesMan View Post
    I still much prefer the Dreamcast version.
    DC version was just the PS1 version with more frames and everyone unlocked, right? A bit of a bummer they didn't restore the sprite sizes. Always wish I had put a little more effort into finding the Saturn version back when it came out instead of sticking with just the PS1 and DC versions, though with compilation packs and modern emulation, it's all a bit moot anymore.

    The SotN port on Saturn is just shameful. There's no excuse for a game getting slaughtered that much in the transition from PS1 to Saturn.

    Some other 2D games came out better on the PS1, such as Donpachi and Dodonpachi.

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    Well at lease you have the CV3 musis & play Ritcher, Alcaurd & Maria

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