Atari Star Wars help (Now with pics!!!)

[AdamAnt316]

Greetings, everyone. I haven't actually taken possession of the whole thing as of yet, but I figured I'd throw some questions out here in advance...

I was recently given an Atari Star Wars machine (the cockpit cabinet version). This is my very first arcade machine, so I'm not quite sure where to start. According to the previous owners (who were never able to get around to fixing it), it has some problems. I have some questions:

1. How common is the issue with the high-voltage board? I've been told that this particular unit has "power supply issues", and I get a bad feeling that it might be this. How common are parts for these things?

2. Is there any sort of source for cabinet parts for these things? The unit in question is missing the "roof" of the cockpit, as well as the marquee from the back. What sort of fluorescent tube was used to light it up?

3. How were these constructed? On the unit in question, someone appears to have sawn it roughly in the middle of the floorboard, and intended it to be reattached by bolting it together (using a pair of 2x4s to brace the halves). I have no idea how these were originally built.

Thanks in advance!
-Adam

[AdamAnt316]

By high voltage, do you mean the HV in the monitor? If it's an original (25") Amplifone monitor, then chances are good the HV flyback is bad (if not, it soon will be). Replacements can be found, but they are expensive (well over $100).

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I was referring to the high-voltage monitor circuitry. At the moment, I'm not sure which monitor it has, since I haven't taken more than a cursory look inside as of yet. What goes wrong with the high voltage boards on these things? I have a basic knowledge of electronics, so I'd like to fix it if possible without replacing the whole kit 'n' caboodle. If it turns out to be unrepairable, however, where would I acquire one? EDIT: Found this on ArcadeShop; would this do the trick?

By power supply, are you talking about the Regulator board? These are easily repaired. Same for the transformer assembly (on the bottom).

I haven't gotten a definitive answer from the previous owner (who, unfortunately, still has the innards at this time; I only have the "seat" portion, and probably won't get the rest until the snow melts around here) on exactly what is wrong with the power supply, or which power supply has gone bad. I'm hoping it's just the LV supply, but am not holding my breath. Hopefully, I can test it out before attempting to get the guts from where they reside at the moment. All I know is, this thing probably hasn't worked in over 15 years.

No repros for the roof that I know of. I *think* someone was making repro marquees though. Try some sites listed in the DP links section for that. As for the roof, best bet is to post in the arcade newsgroups (RGVAC, RGVAM).

Thanks for the tips. Have taken a cursory look through the links section, with no joy as of yet. Will likely post to the newsgroups when I know more about the exact condition of this machine, and exactly how restorable it is.

It's been awhile since I had one, but IIRC the cabs were all one piece (i.e. not able to split it apart like most sitdowns). With Atari's cabs, the bottoms were usually plywood, and the sides/top were MDF.

Had a bad feeling that they weren't originally made to be taken apart. Guessing it was done sometime during it's original life in an arcade, though it also could've been done before it was moved to where it's resided for the last 15+ years. Without the unfortunate procedure, it probably wouldn't have ended up where it did, methinks. Just to clarify, what's "MDF"? Not terribly familiar with the construction materials used to build arcade cabinets.
-Adam

[InsaneDavid]

You may want to buy the original arcade service manual for the cabinet as well as the schematic package. The service and operations manuals are an invaluable maintenance, repair and troubleshooting tool. You can find them for most cabinets on eBay for a few bucks. If anything it's a good reference.

[AdamAnt316]

Yes, the flyback is the "Achilles heel" of the Amplifone monitors - poorly designed. If it still has the original one, it'll be red. Cinelabs are the ones who made the latest replacement: http://www.cinelabs.com/amp/

Good to know, thanks. If this indeed turns out to be the problem, it should turn out to be an interesting project. Just need to find myself a good HV probe. since 25KV is not to be taken lightly...

MDF - medium-density fiberboard. Commonly referred to as "particle board". About the only positives it has is that it's cheaper than plywood and offers a smooth surface. The downsides are, it's easily damaged, especially if it gets wet (it'll soak up water like a sponge, and then swell 2x its size).

Again, good to know. Hopefully, someone has a spare from a junker cab. Failing that, it'd be an interesting project to attempt to recreate the thing to some degree (would help to know someone who has a complete example).

Speaking of sitdown Star Wars, this pic was just posted in RGVAC:
http://www.brentradio.com/images/Oth...swcockpits.jpg

*attempts to stem flow of drool* What's that a picture of, the warehouse where they stored them after manufacture?

You may want to buy the original arcade service manual for the cabinet as well as the schematic package. The service and operations manuals are an invaluable maintenance, repair and troubleshooting tool. You can find them for most cabinets on eBay for a few bucks. If anything it's a good reference.

Downloaded it from the web the other day, and should serve me well once I get it printed out. In fact, the previous owner also printed out a copy, but never actually got around to using it to try and fix the thing.
-Adam

[AdamAnt316]

Probe not needed. You can hear the tube charge up when you turn it on (if the HV is working).

I'm mainly referring to if/when I need to replace the flyback. If it works at all, it'll likely charge the CRT to at least a few thousand volts when I power up the unit test it, and CRTs tend to act like fairly-efficient capacitors, from what I've heard. Plus, according to CineLab's instructions, the HV output will need to be adjusted once the replacement flyback transformer is fitted, and to measure that would require something beyond a Simpson 260.
-Adam

[AdamAnt316]

I finally got an opportunity to get some pics, and test it out. As I feared, it is indeed equipped with Dead Red. There's at least one harness which isn't connected to anything (shown in the pics below). When powered up, the screen is completely dead, and some sort of chattering noise can be heard from the inside (there is a fan over the main transformer, so it could be that). Since it's speakers are in the seat portion, located away from the main part, I couldn't hear if the game was still playing behind it (put a coin in for the hell of it). One of the coin slots lights up, so at least part of it is getting low voltage. I'm guessing that the flyback is dead, as often is true, and who-knows-what-else.

By the way, I asked one of the most-recent owners about where they got it. Apparently, it was once owned by General Computer, who used it as some sort of vector test-bed. Not sure how this could've worked, or how badly they may have hacked it, but gives it an interesting history (if true).

[AdamAnt316]

The "chatter" noise is normal if the deflection board is working (and the game is working). The wiring doesn't look hacked.

Good to know. I was able to capture video of the unit starting (cranked the voltage going to it slowly with a variable transformer), and "running" (the chatter can be heard quite well in some shots):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hgzCbzJPjc

(and contrary to what you hear near the end, I didn't actually determine that the chatter was actually coming from the fan, just didn't know what the insides of one of these things is supposed to sound like. By the way, mine has a small toggle switch located below the opening to the insides; is this normal?)

[AdamAnt316]

Not sure why you're using a variable transformer to power it up, but it won't work unless it's getting 120VAC. The chatter noise should change slightly in pitch frequently (as the display changes). Are the LEDs on the game board lighting up?
The toggle switch is most likely the test switch for the game. A pic would help confirm it.

I merely used the variable transformer to slowly adjust the line voltage from 0 to 120V AC as I watched an AC ammeter connected to it, to make sure that it wasn't going to go up in smoke (a standard test procedure I use with vintage electronics; also helps reform filter capacitors). At full voltage, the unit was drawing approx. 1.4-1.5A. The chattering did seem to change speed from time to time. Some red lights could be seen through the grating around the board box. The switch I'm speaking of can best be seen around the 2:24 point in the video. Did these machines usually have an interlock button to prevent the machine from being powered up with the back door off?
-Adam

[AdamAnt316]

Yes, most had interlock switches. Even if using a variable transformer helps with any caps, it will be temporary since you're dealing with 25-year old caps at this point, so if they won't work with a normal powerup, they need to be replaced If anything, the big cap in the transformer block would be bad. If you intend on keeping this, you might want to replace it. Since the flyback is original, I'm guessing the cap is as well.

My primary reason for using the variable transformer was to slowly apply power to the guts so that I could closely monitor it's current draw during the process, without getting any smoky surprises afterwards; any cap reforming was a secondary benefit (it isn't like I can tell much of what's going on inside there without being able to see an image on the screen). I have indeed heard of the big blue cap problem, and will likely order a replacement if/when I order a replacement flyback (as well as a cap kit, most likely). The power supply itself can be seen at http://www.electronixandmore.com/ada...owersupply.jpg

Does seeing the LEDs inside the board cage mean that that part of the machine is working, or does it simply mean that power is getting to it in some shape or form? Also, what exactly might the function of that toggle switch (assuming it's original) be? Thanks for the help thus far.
-Adam

[AdamAnt316]

Well, if you're gonna take all the fun out of it...

I'd prefer to save the fun for when I get it working...

It means the board is getting +5v, or close to it. I wouldn't run it too long w/o at least checking the voltage to make sure it's not too high (about 5.15 is ideal).

Good to know, thanks. After I replace Big Blue (and the rest of the important caps in the video/audio sections), I'll test the voltages going to the boards, but until then, I think I'll let as much HV drain from the CRT as possible (another bit of fun I'd like to avoid...).

It switches the pcb between game "mode" and test "mode". It's not very helpful w/o a working monitor and/or speaker hooked up.

Again, good to know (figured that function was set via dip switch). What is the difference between the two modes? Also, where might the dip switches be for this unit?
-Adam

[AdamAnt316]

Just what they imply - the test mode test various functions of the game board - sound, scaling, controllers, etc. The dip switches are on the game board. I'd suggest d/l the manual:

http://www.arcadedocs.com/vidmanuals/S/StarWars.pdf

Thanks. I've downloaded the manual, and just need to get it printed out. Before I order the parts, I have another question: even if the flyback is toast, should I still be able to see the filament of the CRT lit? I know it's a bit of a longshot, but I'd rather not order and install the flyback, only to find out that the CRT's filament is open. Once again, thanks!
-Adam

[DogP]

The CRT heater filament RARELY goes bad... but if you really want to test it, look at the pinout of the neck and measure the resistance across the heater. IIRC it's usually ~20 ohms. You could hook it up to a tube tester/rejuvenator too if you wanted to check the overall performance of the tube. But to answer your question, the heater voltage comes from the flyback, so w/ a dead red, you most likely won't get any neck glow (you can also test the voltage to the heater if you really want).

DogP

[AdamAnt316]

Back from the dead, this thread is...

The Star Wars machine is finally home!

Took five months to amass the manpower, transportation, and sheer luck to get the freakin' machine the whole one mile from the basement it inhabited for the better part of the last two decades, to my garage. Suffered some minor scrapes in the move, but it made it in one (well, two) pieces. Once I get the needed parts together, the restoration process shall commence, and I should be blasting TIE fighters over the Death Star before too long (knock on wood).

Not too long before this, I was finally given the paperwork for the machine. It appears to be all original, including schematic supplements, the original instructions bag, and even some hand-drawn circuit diagrams! The coupe-de-grace, however, has to be the original bill-of-sale from Atari Games, who apparently let the machine go in mid-1983 for all of $420! The previous owner then bought it two years later from the original owner for a measly $300. I wonder how a behemoth of a machine could've possibly sold for such a low price in it's heyday, especially considering the fact that they retailed for over $2,000 when new.

Pics to follow soon!
-Adam

[AdamAnt316]

As requested, here are scans of the original bill of sale from Atari Games to the original owner, and the bill of sale from the original owner to the previous owner. I had to blur out a few things in the latter, since some of it could be sensitive information (bank account numbers and such), but the rest of it is as it was originally written up. It appears that the unit was sold by Atari Games in 1984, rather than 1983 as I previously posted (not sure quite when, though; for some reason, they left that information out). Anyway, here they are:

http://www.electronixandmore.com/ada...illofsale1.jpg
http://www.electronixandmore.com/ada...illofsale2.jpg

-Adam

[Sega_Naomi]

420$ for star wars arcade back in 1984???

am i reading correctly??!

[AdamAnt316]

420$ for star wars arcade back in 1984???

am i reading correctly??!

From what I've been able to tell, yes. Granted, it doesn't list any sort of reason why it was sold so cheaply in it's heyday. According to the previous owner, it was used as a test-bed of some sort by a tech company, and this may have had something to do with it; I have yet to see any evidence of this inside the machine, at least as far as I can tell with my minimal arcade machine knowledge. In with the manuals and bills-of-sale were at least two hand-drawn circuit diagrams, of a complex-looking nature. Whether they're a sketch of the modifications done, or merely an attempt to troubleshoot one of it's problems through 'blowing up' a section of the standard manual, I know not.
-Adam