Going to do game reproductions, but want feedback

[MrSmiley381]

Coming up with a short title was a bit difficult. Well, you see, I'm planning to do NES reproductions, and possibly some Atari 2600 homebrew work. This idea came to me for when our latest project was assigned for our business class. We're supposed to come up with a business plan. Long story short, I need "Market Research."

So, I first had to find my target market. Fans of classic games that want unreleased games dumped to cart. If anyone is going to care, it'll be the DP Classic Games forum, right? Basically, I'd like to ask some questions to start. All information will be used in my report. You may choose to answer as many as you like. If you hate my plan with a passion, feeling I'm doing something that's morally wrong, go ahead and tell me. Suggestions? Go for it. And if you don't know about video game reproductions, check out NESreproductions.com for a bit of a rundown.

Sample Questions:
What is your general opinion on video game reproductions?
What is the most you'd be willing to pay for an NES reproduction? SNES? Genesis? Atari 2600 homebrew title?
Do you feel another NES Reproducer deserves any place in the market?
How would feel if this service expanded to reproduce well-known game hacks as well as unreleased titles?
How would you feel if there were an extremely well-written how-to available about producing your own carts, for an affordable price?

I know these questions might seem a little bit strange, but bear with me. I'll add more if I can think of any.

Thanks again, Digital Press. Even if no one, and I mean no one, replies, I can use this thread as my research.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Well, you see, I'm planning to do NES reproductions, and possibly some Atari 2600 homebrew work.

Someone else started a thread about this just a few months ago. I don't take issue with reproductions if they're made and sold responsibly...but they often are not. This is why we already see repros popping up on eBay with people trying to sell them as legit (and sometimes succeeding). For that reason, I'm not a fan of anyone making reproductions of rare games and selling them in mass quantities to random people. We don't really see too many fakes in this hobby overall, and I think it should stay that way. Plus, there are already a few companies out there making reproductions of certain games...I don't think the interest is really there to support a new upstart making general repros.

Also, what do you mean by "some Atari 2600 homebrew work"? You mean original homebrew efforts or unauthorized reproductions of homebrew games (ala Randy Crihfield/Hozer Video Games)?

[Trebuken]

'What is your general opinion on video game reproductions?'
Reproductions of rare or unique titles makes sense given the growth of classic gaming.

'What is the most you'd be willing to pay for an NES reproduction? SNES? Genesis? Atari 2600 homebrew title?'
For reproductions they would have to cost less than an original, obviously. I think Beggar Prince was fairly priced, but it was an RPG, and perhaps about $10 more than I thought was a Buy It Now price. $20-$30 for NES or Atari, maybe $40 for SNES, Genesis.

'Do you feel another NES Reproducer deserves any place in the market?'
Sure. How legal are reproductions?

'How would feel if this service expanded to reproduce well-known game hacks as well as unreleased titles?'
I generally don't like game hacks but some do so I won't begrudge them. Unreleased titles and translated titles would be a big interest.

'How would you feel if there were an extremely well-written how-to available about producing your own carts, for an affordable price?'
As long as it included a shopping guide. Where do you find these things.

I also think efforts should be made to distinguish reproductions for what they are. Either printing labels differently, or altering the color of the cartridges...something. Though I imagine that many would want it to look authentic I wouldn't want them to.

[Coldguy]

www.nesreproductions.com use this as a reference.

[CartCollector]

Um, before you get started making repros, have you ever made one before? Did it work? How clean and authentic was it?

And before you get started making VCS homebrews, have you ever programmed in assembly? Have you ever programmed a game in assembly? How much do you know about the VCS, the TIA, and the NTSC television standard?

You probably won't end up doing anything until you get started with one of these paths. Start with the repros, it's a whole lot easier (unless you use Batari Basic, but the best games use every inch of performance that can be squeezed out of the VCS, which requires assembly). So stop "market testing" and go do something! Then you can ask these questions.

[MrSmiley381]

I'm glad I've got at least a few supplies. CartCollector has made an interesting point already; "Have you done anything?"

The answer is both "Yes" and "No". I have everything required to start doing NES and Atari Reproductions. I just need to get my damn Eprom burner working! I know my soldering skill isn't quite up to par with some soldering experts, but what I've done so far is pretty solid. I don't plan on doing botch jobs. If I can't do it properly, I have a friend who definitely can. Labels also won't be an issue. Where there's a will, there's a way. And, really, that's the easy part.

As for VCS development, I've already found someone to begin programming while I'm busy with "Business Preparation." I've taken a look at some of the coding, and the ridiculous drawing by scanline nonsense. Once we get repros underway, I'll probably pick up the programming.

And PingvinBlueJeans, I have no intention of basically pirating homebrew games. If AtariAge is already selling a game for someone, I wouldn't want to touch it, anyway. On the flipside, if a homebrew author was willing to use me as a distributor, I would do that. But only if they wanted me to.

I hope I've given good enough responses! I like the way this thread is going so far.

[Kitsune Sniper]

If you're going to do repros of translated carts, make sure the translator and hacker team give you permission to make them before doing anything.

Also, if -I- were into doing this, I'd try to figure out a way to hack the games so they would load some sort of disclaimer text when the game boots up so people know it's a repro right away, but that's just me.

[udisi]

I have no problems with repros as long as they are represented as reproductions.

As for NES reproductions, there are already 2 big, established reproducers and you may find it hard to compete in that market. Reproductions are technically illegal, so keep that in mind too.

As for Atari Homebrews, Atariage contracts most of the homebrewers to produce and distribute new homebrews, but you could probably contract some of the programmers yourself. I believe the programmers get $5 a cart sold. Most will probably stay exclusive to Atariage, but Packrat Video Games also contracts some of the games too. With Hacks, the community is a little different, Hacks, like most reproductions, are technically not legal since they use original source code. If you notice Atariage doesn't sell many hacks, and most are released in small number by the Hackers themselves. Some hackers don't care if you reproduce their hacks, others will give their blessing for a cut of the profits(although they technically hold no right to the code).

As for other systems, there aren't any really big producers, although some exist. I also don't know what kind of market there is for most other systems. Genesis, and SNES would be 2 systems I would expect to be semi untapped and with the potential for a market. Also I know there have been some Sega Master System homebrew Demos/games, but I would suspect the interest in these to be much higher in Europe than the US.

Really, The biggest concern I would have is that you could get stomped on for Reproductions by the rightful copyright owners. This hasn't happened to the NES guys yet, but some of the Atari Licenses are still protected vigorously by their owners, although Hozer did sell Repros, Hacks, and Homebrews for several years without trouble, until he stopped paying Homebrew authors their royalties. Even CGE has had to aquire rights to release some of their reproductions.

Your best bet as a legal buisness is to become a Homebrew producer and contract with the programmers. Repros and Hacks are a gray area where you could make money, but you could also get in a bit of trouble.

[outsider]

I'd be willing to pay $35-40 for SNES reproductions - I'd love to see someone start making them.

[MrSmiley381]

Well, I'm glad I got as much feedback as I did. I'm going to be using this information for my business plan, so if anyone else has anything to say, you have until later tonight.

For those of you who did respond, I plan to incorporate everything you've said into my plan.

[Berserker]

This may already be a given, but it'd be a good idea to settle on some way to brand the carts so that they can be unmistakably identified as repros, preferably in a way that identifies them as your own work specifically. The mark should be something permanent, i.e. not just a sticker someone can rip off.

[swlovinist]

I support what you are planning to do. Like some others, here are some thoughts:

Make sure you do your homework and do it legally...I argee that having a reprint on the covers or disclaimer will help make your business legit.

Price and quality are everything. Artwork and quality mean alot to the potential customers. You have to entice people to want to buy your stuff. Me personally think that homebrew stuff has to be very reasonably priced these days for one reason....the competition is tough, and frankly there are a ton of games out there that are resonably prices. I think that anything over $30 that is not either a true original or REALLY GREAT game is too high

If the game is not that great I also recommend a numbered run with numbers on each piece you sell. Collectors love this and it also will legitimize your reproductions. I wish some other sellers did this type of thing. I tend to stay away from repros that arent that fun to play, but if they are numbered runs it alway get me to rethink a purchase.

[j_factor]

NES, Atari reproductions are already being done. No offense, but I see no need to have another person/site offering them. And the one place that does Genesis (Megadrive) reproductions does an amazing job with boxes and manuals, so I don't think you'd be able to compete too well. On the other hand, there is a big gaping hole open for SNES reproductions. If you can do those, you'd have a little niche all to yourself. There's definitely a large number of games that could be done, and definitely a decent demand for them.