How would you deal with an eBay "sorry / out of stock" email?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I've been an eBay user since the late 90's.

I was in on the ground floor ... I've seen the site and service go through just about every change, scam, service upgrade, and loophole exploitation that you can imagine, but it seems that more and more on a regular basis - strangely in the unique case of video game based auctions - I'm faced as a buyer with disappointment after the closing bid almost EVERY TIME.

Recently I've noticed that some sellers have found an interesting loophole in eBay's services - they'll list an item (in this case a game of average to high value) at a low starting cost of 99 Cents or a Dollar, and in the event of the auction ending on that listing cost with only the maiden bid of that cost, they'll email the buyer with an email that explains :

"I'm sorry, the item that you have bid on is currently out of stock, if you have paid via PayPal, I will be refunding your payment shortly, I'm sorry for the inconvenience, thank you."

then the seller will go on to immediately refund your payment and open a mutual non-payment/non-shipment dispute with eBay so they can get credit on the cost of listing the auction.

I've gotten a few of these communications from eBay shortly after the seller refunds my money, and even in the event that I state clearly on the dispute that the non-shipment was NOT MUTUAL, I've never gotten any further communications regarding the matter, and all of the sellers in question are still operating in full capacity.

Why are sellers exploiting this loophole instead of selling their games at the low low listing price?

Well, obviously so they can attempt to score a higher profit on said game, and once they've fully refunded your payment, eBay is not as it appears, willing to attempt any further punitive damages on the seller. (Especially in the event of such a low sale price.)

Have you gotten one of these types of "out of stock" emails? Check the seller in question a week later and see if the game in question is suddenly re-listed! It probably IS!

Now, I digress. In my most RECENT eBay buying situation I suspect I'm being exploited yet again.

This time I attempted to purchase (via the starting bid price of $39.99, NOT the Buy It Now option of $49.99) a Gen X Dual System from a seller that appeared to have 100% positive feedback, and only had ONE of the systems in their listings. I figured everything looked kosher.

A day after winning, and sending immediate payment - I'm hit with YET ANOTHER "sorry, this item is out of stock" emails. When I attempted to correspond with the seller, with simple, logical questions like

"How is a SINGLE item that you have listed suddenly no longer available to me at the time of auction close? (Which is a violation of eBay's TOS.) Did you sell it to some other 3rd party outside of eBay? (Which is also a violation of eBay's TOS.)"

all I'm met with is more robotic responses along the same lines as the initial email "I'm sorry for any inconvenience this has cause you, as soon as I have another one of these items I'll send it out to you, it might take a week, but it could take longer. I'd be more than happy to offer you a refund."

Now, yes, a refund has been offered - and that would be the easy way out of all of this, however, I feel that eBay game buyers are being faced with a MAJOR, GROWING issue - the bogus "out of stock" email and/or the "re-listing for higher profit" scam.

Of course, the nature of the near-anonymity of eBay makes it impossible to prove that this seller is doing that ... but at the very LEAST they're violating eBay's TOS by:

A.) Listing an item that they do NOT actually have in their possession.

B.) Choosing to sell/offer the item to a 3rd party during the course of the item being listed for auction.

As a longtime eBay seller, I can't IMAGINE EVER listing an item for sale that I didn't actually POSSESS ... and I just can't wrap my brain around the concept of telling somebody that "Um, sorry, I don't have it any more." after they've freaking PAID.

I'm not so much looking for "answers" to my dilemma, since I know that eBay won't do anything about this ... I'm actually just looking for your thoughts on the matter ... what would YOU do, or HAS this type of thing happened to you recently??

[Cornelius]

Same thing has happened to me before. I even found the same item with the same (oddball/unique) description had been listed under a different username the next day. I bugged the seller about it, and complained to ebay, but of course ebay wouldn't do anything. Now that I am recalling it, they went the 'must have been lost by the post' route, which means according to all the info I could provide to eBay, they didn't even violate any TOS.

I'm ashamed to admit I didn't even have the balls to leave a negative, since I'm still at 100% and both buy and sell on my account.

[ryborg]

Yeah, this has been happening since the dawn of ebay's major popularity increase in '99-00. It's nothing new. If you've managed to avoid it all these years, consider yourself lucky. It sucks but there's nothing you can really do, aside from leaving the seller a neg in the end if you see the EXACT same item up for sale again.

I've gotten a few of these communications from eBay shortly after the seller refunds my money, and even in the event that I state clearly on the dispute that the non-shipment was NOT MUTUAL, I've never gotten any further communications regarding the matter, and all of the sellers in question are still operating in full capacity.

Save your breath. Ebay doesn't read messages in or regarding the Dispute Console, and obviously the seller doesn't care at that point.

As a longtime eBay seller, I can't IMAGINE EVER listing an item for sale that I didn't actually POSSESS

People make mistakes. It's not *always* a scam tactic. It happens sometimes if you're a big-time seller with hundreds of items up at any given time. It's happened to me a few times over the years, too. Whenever I get a big order of similar things to sell, I make either a hand-written or online spreadsheet of my inventory. Sometimes you write the wrong size or wrong color and don't notice the error until the point of shipment. It happens.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

People make mistakes. It's not *always* a scam tactic. It happens sometimes if you're a big-time seller with hundreds of items up at any given time. It's happened to me a few times over the years, too. Whenever I get a big order of similar things to sell, I make either a hand-written or online spreadsheet of my inventory. Sometimes you write the wrong size or wrong color and don't notice the error until the point of shipment. It happens.

Just out of curiosity, since you I assume, do a large amount of selling business -

do you go through your PayPal received payments and just blindly "deposit" everything before double-checking that you acutally have the item "in stock"?

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the seller that this isn't a scam - do you think that I've got a legit issue with being at the very least frustrated that my payment was "accepted" via PayPal prior to getting the "out of stock" email from the seller?

(Because, now, even in the event of a "refund" I have to go through the process of re-depositing it via PayPal into my bank, which takes, what 3-7 business days, not counting MLK day if the refund comes in on Monday.)

[Cornelius]

I should add that there is a complaint form you can fill out. Do a search for non-selling seller or seller non-performance. Something like that. They will ask for the email where the seller refuses to send you the item (or similar wording). That's where I got stuck, because the seller never refused, they just said the post lost it.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I should add that there is a complaint form you can fill out. Do a search for non-selling seller or seller non-performance. Something like that. They will ask for the email where the seller refuses to send you the item (or similar wording). That's where I got stuck, because the seller never refused, they just said the post lost it.

I've asked the seller for a refund at this point. I just don't trust the whole deal.

However, the non-shipping seller dispute form can only be submitted to eBay after 10 days of an auction close.

In the event that I don't get a refund by 10 days, I'll be sure to fill one out.

[Cornelius]

I've asked the seller for a refund at this point. I just don't trust the whole deal.

However, the non-shipping seller dispute form can only be submitted to eBay after 10 days of an auction close.

In the event that I don't get a refund by 10 days, I'll be sure to fill one out.

The thing I'm talking about I didn't think was a dispute. Rather, I thought it was a complaint process. In any case, get your refund first.

[Niku-Sama]

this is why i dont deal with e-bay, simple as that

[Kitsune Sniper]

And this is why I don't list anything I don't have at hand. :P

[DreamTR]

Since I work at a place that deals with his sort of thing, keep this in mind:

We use something called Channel Advisor, which is supposed to be an ebay assistant, and inventory management system, reloading everything after items have ended. Unfortunately, they are notorious for relisting stock we do not have sometimes when we run out, and it is an ongoing problem. We do get complaints, and I feel for the customer, but since we have 11000 items in inventory, it's a necessary evil for us to have to use CA, unfortunately.

[ryborg]

Just out of curiosity, since you I assume, do a large amount of selling business -

do you go through your PayPal received payments and just blindly "deposit" everything before double-checking that you acutally have the item "in stock"?

I don't understand what you mean here. What am I depositing? Once a buyer pays, that money is in my account. I leave it there, because I collect almost 5% interest, plus 1.5% cash-back on purchases. The only time I move funds around is when my balance reaches over five digits, because I simply don't trust Paypal with that kind of money.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the seller that this isn't a scam - do you think that I've got a legit issue with being at the very least frustrated that my payment was "accepted" via PayPal prior to getting the "out of stock" email from the seller?

Oh, no question it is frustrating. It's happened to me before as a buyer and yes, of course it sucks. But that's part of the minor risk you take when you buy something online or on ebay. You are sacrificing a small amount of security to save money. If you or anyone else is unwilling to accept that a transaction might go wrong, that person should stick to buying items in a store, in person.

[Bibliophile]

This has happened to me before, and unfortunately, it is allowed under ebay rules.

On the other hand, there are times when a seller is legitimately out of stock. Some sellers sell items both on ebay and on their own websites (or in their own stores). Thus, an item may sell through their website or store before the auctions ends on ebay. This seller has really done no wrong.

Of course, the other type of seller is simply that one who is unhappy with how low a winning bid was and does not want to send it, because he hopes to list it again and win more for it.

Under ebay rules, the seller can refuse to sell to the winning bidder so long as he refunds any payment and pays his Final Value Fees (FVF). While the bidder has the option to leave a negative feedback, ebay doesn't care about feedback; they only care that they get their fees.

If a seller refunds your payment, he is not scamming you, so technically it is not grounds for a strike against the seller.

Also, if a seller files a "mutually agreed to not complete transaction" dispute, the buyer is not required to agree. The only reason for the buyer to agree is for the seller to be refunded his FVF fees. If the buyer does not agree, then the seller does get billed the FVF fees.

If you don't like it, there is not much you can do about it except for two things: 1. if the seller opens a "mutually agreed to not complete transaction" dispute," you can always choose to not agree. The seller will still have to pay the FVF fees, but you still won't get the item if he doesn't want to sell.

Second, you can always leave negative feedback, though I would be careful before doing this. Many sellers will leave you a neg in retaliation if you leave them one. Those are your only options.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

This has happened to me before, and unfortunately, it is allowed under ebay rules.

On the other hand, there are times when a seller is legitimately out of stock. Some sellers sell items both on ebay and on their own websites (or in their own stores). Thus, an item may sell through their website or store before the auctions ends on ebay. This seller has really done no wrong.
.

While I appreciate the time and detail that went into your response, I have to disagree with you here and strongly on this point.

"really done no wrong" is a gross misrepresentation of the scenario you present.

Any time a seller lists any one single item for sale in an eBay auction or Buy It Now listing, that single item MUST BE RETAINED for the auction and any potential bidders/buyers, and under no circumstances should be listed, offered or sold to any 3rd party on any other auction or sale website.

Let's say for example, you have a Nintendo World Championship Cartridge, and you list it in an eBay auction.

If you then, after listing the cartridge on eBay, you subsequently offer that same exact cartridge for sale on the Digital Press Buying and Selling Forum, THEN have bids placed on your eBay auction by eBay users, YET, you decide to sell it to a DP forum member and simply send off an email to the eBay winning bidder that you no longer have the item for sale - you HAVE ABSOLUTELY DONE WRONG.

You've broken the contractual obligation to sell the item at auction where you listed it.

That is what happened to me in this auction.

An item was listed, and at the time of the auction closing, the item could (or would) NOT be provided to me for whatever reason regardless of the fact that I paid immediately and in full.

Imagine going into a brick and mortar store and buying an XBOX 360, paying in full, driving home, and opening the box, only to find that inside was a note explaining that the XBOX you purchased was "not in stock" at the time you paid ... but they'd ship one out to you as soon as they were back in stock.

If eBay sellers want to put forth the facade of a virtual "storefront", then regardless of the amount of "stock" that they keep, they MUST avoid this scenario. It's not only frustrating, but is also a clear violation of eBay's TOS - you can't list for sale what you don't physically possess.

[mnbren05]

Ebay does allow sellers to escape out of "losing a profit" in my mind. Two weeks ago I bought Command and Conquer 64 and Diddy Kong 64 from the same ebay seller. I paid instantly with pay pal after winning (both games ended at .01 with 3.50 shipping). SO a grand total of 7.02 went to them.

Saturday
I recieve an email from the seller claiming that "Your shipping address is non-existant and invalid. Shipped out media mail Wednesday and it got to your OH distributor and came back Thursday. Please give me a Pay Pal confirmed address"

Feeling I was about to be scammed I sent back a angry message including stuff like Media Mail definatly must have sped up their serivce (as the games came from Nevada) and secondly I have over 100 transaction with no shipping problems to my address. I also requested a copy of the invoice used to ship so I can investigate the sellers claim with the USPS (as mail fraud is a felony in most cases) and the actual address/time date he shipped and will ship again with so I can promptly expect the games.

The next day I recieved an email that both games were out of stock and I recieved the first email by mistake. (I will be refunded for the games and shipping on the bright side) It just really grinds my gears with all these low life scum bags on Ebay.

SERENITY NOW!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I got my refund today from the original seller and found a new seller with like 10 Gen X systems up (so there's really no legit reason why they'd say they're "out of stock") and I used the "buy it now feature" ... so it's got to be a price that they're "happy" with as a seller.

I usually go that route, but I guess I've learned my lesson on being the maiden low bidder and what can potentially happen in that scenario.

[dylan0228]

If I list something on Ebay, it is definitely in my possession. I did sell something once & my fiance shipped it to someone else & had to refund the guy. I felt pretty bad about that. I list almost everything at .99 cents starting bid with knowing that it may only sell for .99 cents. I figure some items will sell for more than proper value & it will even out in the end. If it sells for .99 cents, oh well! Shouldn`t have listed it for that then. I`ve never even heard of the "out of stock" scam though. Hope I never encounter it either!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I don't understand what you mean here. What am I depositing? Once a buyer pays, that money is in my account. I leave it there, because I collect almost 5% interest, plus 1.5% cash-back on purchases. The only time I move funds around is when my balance reaches over five digits, because I simply don't trust Paypal with that kind of money.

Ah, I see.

As a seller, I've only ever used PayPal as a transfer in/out deposit service to my main bank account. I've never let funds reside there, and I don't have the I assume PayPal purchase bonus (Visa card?) that you likely speak of.

So, for me, when I sell a bunch of stuff on eBay, it goes directly from PayPal to a "deposit" in my bank.

I assumed that was pretty standard, but I suppose bulk sellers probably do use PayPal as a "virtual bank account" more often than not.

[jb143]

I do the same thing. Paypal has a better interest rate than my bank and the paypal debit card is also very easy to get and earn cash back on. I used to use it only for ebay related transactions but now I use it for most everything.

As far the the "out of stock" situation. I have had this happen to me and it is quite frustraing. Although I think it might be in violation of ebays seller non-preformance policy there's not much you can do except get a refund. You would also be completly within your rights to leave neutral or negative feedback. For them to retaliate with negative would also be against ebay policy since you completly fullfilled your end of the transaction. This is all in a perfect world though. In real life it doesn't usually work out this way.