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Thread: Prediction: The Xbox won't age well as a console.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Half Japanese's Avatar
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    As above, so below (double post).
    Last edited by Half Japanese; 03-18-2008 at 09:24 PM.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Half Japanese's Avatar
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    I disagree as well. To many folks, the Xbox was sort of a continuation of the Dreamcast, being a non-Sony hardcore gamer's machine. It sure as hell had a rough start with "the Duke" and a pretty shitty launch lineup (outside of Halo), plus every geek's knee-jerk negative reaction to anything put out by Microsoft but it succeeded admirably in the face of all of that. If you're one of those people who just skims the most popular games for a system then of course you're going to say "dur...it's all shooters and racing games," but if you dig deeper you'll find it was home to TONS of first-rate sleeper hits that sites like Hardcore Gaming 101 will have articles on 5-10 years from now. I'm talking Deathrow, Voodoo Vince, Toejam & Earl III, Phantom Crash, Phantom Dust, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, etc. And that's not counting some of the more mainstream excellent exclusives.

    In addition to that, the Xbox will be remembered for the following:

    - First console to feature in-game 5.1 surround sound
    - First console to feature HD resolution graphics (720p, 1080i)
    - First streamlined online setup for consoles (streamlined is the key word here)
    - First console to be truly worthwhile to hack/mod

    It may not have the library of the ps2, but it smokes the Gamecube in every way in my opinion.

    edit: emceelokey added the points about the hard drive and custom soundtracks which I can't believe I overlooked (not having read his post before posting myself). In addition to this, Xbox Live had messaging capabilities in-game...something Sony is just now getting around to implementing on PSN.

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    Great Puma (Level 12) bangtango's Avatar
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    Xbox is the best system to play sports games on since the Sega Genesis. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

    Why?

    -The hard drive alone is big enough to let you save Franchise modes, created players, user records, custom rosters, settings and whatever else your heart desires for every single sports game in the Xbox library. Then you still have room left over for saves from other games or whatever else you want to cram on the HD. Try pulling that with a PS2 or Gamecube memory card. You'll be lucky to fit half a dozen sports games on a typical Gamecube memory card. Most PS2 memory cards aren't much better. Plus the loading times on a typical Xbox sports title are much faster than the GC or PS2 equivalent.

    -Just a better library of football, baseball, basketball and hockey titles. The Microsoft originals (like NFL Fever or NBA Inside Drive) were pretty good, up until MS pulled the plug on that division.

    -What's Gamecube got in its sports library that the Xbox ain't got? Home Run King and NBA Courtside, neither of which are blockbusters. Oh and a "rare" Sega Sports college basketball game that happens to cost next to nothing on the Xbox and probably plays better on it.

    -What's PS2 got in its sports library that Xbox ain't got? A pile of Sony produced 989 Sports games and their whole run on the PS2 was mostly a joke. Pretty much any good sports game that hit the PS2 also hit the Xbox.

    -Xbox had it all in the sports department. EA's catalog. Sega's catalog. Microsoft's own catalog. Konami's catalog (NFL Primetime & NBA Starting Five, etc). Midway's stuff (which admittedly I don't like). Even a small selection from 3DO and Acclaim before both went under. Activision had a street basketball game and of course the Tony Hawk stuff, if you want to classify skating games as "sports."

    Can't argue with that. All playable on a controller that reminds me a lot of the Dreamcast, which was another good system for sports titles. This is pretty cut and dry, in my opinion.

    However, I don't think there is a definitive answer to boat's topic. Opinions vary, even though most here seem to think the Xbox will be fondly remembered years from now. It all comes down to what type of games you like to play. Simple as that.
    Last edited by bangtango; 03-18-2008 at 10:04 PM.

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    I don't think I can say too much that hasn't already been said, but if it makes you feel better I think I agree with you, but probably because of my situation (and maybe yours).

    - I'm guessing here, but I bet most of the people that love the xbox so much, also have had it for a long time and purchased "the better copy" of each game on it. I got my xbox 3 months ago and saw no need to re-buy games I already had on my GC and PS2.

    - I have yet to get into multiplayer gaming on consoles... the PC all the time, but not so much on the xbox, mainly because I was too late. :-p So at least for me, there goes that aspect.

    - I also disagree with everyone saying that technical specification are what makes you remember a console. Who cares if it was the first with 5.1, it's standard now. (Stupid Wii, but I love you) Who cares about HD, repeat previous exception. The same can be said about the inclusion of a hard drive or DLC, it doesn't improve what really matters when you remember how great a console was. Please remember that this is my opinion, but when I look at the NES and SNES I remember how fun the games where and the great times I had, not that it had amazing 16-bit graphics, or superb stereo sound and what ever else Nintendo rattled off back then. It's the songs that I still play in my head and the wonderful story that accompanied them plus I can assure you that SMRPG looks a lot better in my memory then on the screen because graphics fade with time. HD, 5.1, DLC, a hard drive they don't make you love a game (or the console it's on), it's the games that do that, and in my opinion (remember most of my games where played on GC and PS2) the xbox had few original games that drew me in and made me love them... hence getting my xbox 7 years late.

    - The xbox had a lot of stuff going for it, better online, slighter better graphics, better sound, easily hackable, a hard drive, DLC, but at least for me, the games just didn't do it, even adding in the exclusives that I have and played, and that's what important.

    Maybe I missed all the hype that surrounded each game, maybe if I was waiting in line for my copy of Halo 2 at midnight like I did with my Wii and GC I would have other memories tied to the console, but sadly I don't. But based on it's merits alone, what will make me love the console 20 years from now? In my opinion the games, and I think I missed out.


    P.S. I think I lost some of my message in my rant earlier. One, let me say that I love my xbox and if it wasn't for SSBB I'd be playing it right now. Two please remember that the original idea of this post was more to explain why some people may not have the fond memories of the xbox, rather than say that the reasons why you love the xbox are wrong.

    One last thing, for my age, I really didn't experience the SNES like most of you did, I missed the hype, the waiting in line for that next big game, and only had a few games (7) before I started collecting, but it's at worst my 3rd favorite console, and I have about 15. Even though I missed what some would consider a very important part for loving a console, I completely loved it solely for it's amazing library of games. Apply this to the xbox and the games didn't win. Maybe it's sorta the same for you OP.

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    Alex (Level 15) boatofcar's Avatar
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    Great discussion guys; keep it up!

    I don't discount the technological advances the Xbox made during the last generation of consoles. It was the most advanced console feature and spec wise, no question. It just seems that in my opinion, in ten years, there will be more people with fond memories of playing the PS2 or GC than the Xbox. Of course, it's just my opinion

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    Kirby (Level 13) diskoboy's Avatar
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    Why does everyone like to rag on ol' Duke?

    I love burly controllers, having grown up on the hand cramping 2600 controllers.


    And maybe it was because they reminded me so much of the Dreamcast controllers...

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    ServBot (Level 11) roushimsx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackattack View Post
    - I'm guessing here, but I bet most of the people that love the xbox so much, also have had it for a long time and purchased "the better copy" of each game on it. I got my xbox 3 months ago and saw no need to re-buy games I already had on my GC and PS2.

    - I have yet to get into multiplayer gaming on consoles... the PC all the time, but not so much on the xbox, mainly because I was too late. :-p So at least for me, there goes that aspect.

    - I also disagree with everyone saying that technical specification are what makes you remember a console. Who cares if it was the first with 5.1, it's standard now. (Stupid Wii, but I love you) Who cares about HD, repeat previous exception. The same can be said about the inclusion of a hard drive or DLC, it doesn't improve what really matters when you remember how great a console was.

    (snip)

    Maybe I missed all the hype that surrounded each game, maybe if I was waiting in line for my copy of Halo 2 at midnight like I did with my Wii and GC I would have other memories tied to the console, but sadly I don't. But based on it's merits alone, what will make me love the console 20 years from now? In my opinion the games, and I think I missed out.
    No, I'm quite sure if you'd waited in line for Halo 2 that you'd have much more bitter memories about the system. Given that you're more of a single player gamer (hey, me too!), you'd probably find the game underwhelming and uninspired. A couple of neat set pieces and scripted events here and there, but for the most part incredibly generic and repetitive.

    Given that you just recently purchased the system, you've got a whole bunch of good exclusives out there to hunt down and try out. No doubt you'll have a different opinion of the system after a year or so of experiencing more of what the library has to offer, but even if you only played cross platform games, you'd probably grow to love the Xbox versions more for little reasons. Maybe for the progressive scan, maybe for the much faster game saving and loading (vs. PS2), or maybe for some downloadable single player addon material (like an extra level or two for Splinter Cell).

    Hell, even if you don't want to play multiplayer online, LAN parties with Xboxes were all the rage. It was the console that brought the concept of the LAN party to the masses (sure, it wasn't the first...but it popularized the fuck out of it). If you had a buddy with an Xbox, I'm sure you'd be able to find a handful of system link-capable games to play with each other (co-op!).

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    Kirby (Level 13) Leo_A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackattack View Post

    - I also disagree with everyone saying that technical specification are what makes you remember a console. Who cares if it was the first with 5.1, it's standard now. (Stupid Wii, but I love you) Who cares about HD, repeat previous exception. The same can be said about the inclusion of a hard drive or DLC, it doesn't improve what really matters when you remember how great a console was.
    Who was? They're just talking about how it was ahead of the competition. Those enhanced capabilities could translate to better versions of the same games that were on the PS2 and GameCube and often did just that. And it could also directly benefit the games and make them more enjoyable such as the addition of online leaderboards to many classic arcade compilations on the Xbox.

    So I don't think he was saying that it should be remembered for being first in those areas, but was just commenting on how advanced it was and that it would age better than the competition partly because of that (Such as much of its library being 480p and 16:9, making its library more suited for modern tv's than say the PS2's).

    I'll remember a game like Project Gotham Racing 2 down the line because of not only how great of a game it was and how fun it was, but also because of the great times I had online with it through Xbox Live, racing with my favorite songs playing thanks to its custom soundtrack support, and the two great booster packs that it had which added entire new locations and extra cars to the game and extended its life several times.

    All that was made possible by the advancements MS made over the competition a generation ago.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 01-06-2015 at 05:48 AM.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) emceelokey's Avatar
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    For some reason I think 10 years from now people will like the GameCube more mainly because of the Nintendo games. That's why I personally have to look at the technological aspects of the systems. The GameCube lived... LIVED off of old franchises. Yes 90% of Nintendo made games were great but that's their job but those games were built specifically for the GC and utilized the hardware to the best they could have. Now when it came to cross platform games, I would never even consider the GC becase the disc was so small that they wuold actually omit some content from games just to get it on that system. You're not going to have the same experience now with those multi platform games now but let me put this in context. If, let's say Madden '05 was coming out and you wanted the game and had all of the systems what would you choose. The GC version which will not have online play, probably lesser graphics than even the PS2 version, and will require you to buy a 251 block memory card if you want to create a custom roster, and will probably miss a few extras compared to the PS and XBox version. The PS2 version which will probably crawl when loading your custom rosters and every menu you go into, and have a lackluster online mode (if any) or the Xbox version which eliminates all of those problems. Remember this is the release week and all 3 versions cost $50. To me the choice is easy.

    The Hard Drive on the Xbox was completely groud breaking in the console world and what MS started has now become a standard in todays consoles. The first time I played Tony Hawk with a custom soundtrack I was totally blown away. No system ever did that before. Then I look at the GameCube at the time and I think what the hell is Nintendo doing. They're already on generation late with using cd's, now they use this small disc (which was cool until the novelty wore off) and they have this controller that's not even suitable for a fighting game and doesn't have the "3" buttons (clicking sticks) plus the games are too far and few... TO me the GC just seemed to be catching up then at the end they kept adding these attachments and teying to make you use all these gadgets like the E-Reader, connection cables, gbas, mics and just some nonsense and I just remember the GC as a struggling system the whole time.

    That's the way I see it. So to try to get back on subject, I think the GC will be more fondly remembered with time because that system was built on fond memories of Nintendo's past. From my first hand experience I will probably go Xbox, DC, PS2, GC. I think the Xbox will age great but I'll still say that the GC will go for mor in eBay 10 years from now than the Xbox.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) RyanMurf's Avatar
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    Ill let my AVATAR speak for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boatofcar View Post
    Great discussion guys; keep it up!

    I don't discount the technological advances the Xbox made during the last generation of consoles. It was the most advanced console feature and spec wise, no question. It just seems that in my opinion, in ten years, there will be more people with fond memories of playing the PS2 or GC than the Xbox. Of course, it's just my opinion
    My issue with the GC is that literally every major franchise has been or will be moved onto the Wii in a much better version. The PS2 is great for niche stuff, but for everything that was multiplatform or dual platform, it was always the weakest version, often not even as good as the GC version. It is completely incapable of playing FPS games well and had very few American or European style RPGs. I have to say that I have always hated the DualShock and it has never been comfortable in my hands. The GC and Xbox controllers are much better designs for my large hards.

    The Xbox did a lot of games and a lot of genres very well. The only major exception to this would be Japanese RPGs, but frankly, I have played way too many of those in my lifetime and I would rather play Elder Scrolls or Fable any day. From a pure time spent playing perspective, the Xbox beats the other two consoles for me hands down. I think I played Halo more in the first week I had the Xbox than I played my PS2 in the entire first 18 months I had it after launch. Frankly, I can't remember any of the games I own on the Gamecube (actually, I think I'm around 10 short of a complete collection now) and it wasn't a hard decision to pack it away in the weeks before I got my Wii at launch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roushimsx View Post
    Hell, even if you don't want to play multiplayer online, LAN parties with Xboxes were all the rage. It was the console that brought the concept of the LAN party to the masses (sure, it wasn't the first...but it popularized the fuck out of it). If you had a buddy with an Xbox, I'm sure you'd be able to find a handful of system link-capable games to play with each other (co-op!).
    I'll give you that, xbox lan parties were fantastic and a lot of people would have had some great memories from them. As of right now I'm having a problem with the statement that I may find some classic games on the system. It's not that I don't think I will it's just that of of all the games that were mentioned in this thread as being great or memorable or sleeper hits, I'm interested in one of them (not including the ones I already have) Like I said, I love my xbox and will be constantly looking for new games for it, but I just don't agree with the statement that most of the people here made that the GC and PS2 will be less fondly remembered then the xbox. Part of that is because of my love for Nintendo and the other part is the length of time I had my PS2 vs. my xbox. Maybe it will change later on though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post
    Who was? They're just talking about how it was ahead of the competition, and that stuff can translate to better versions of the same games that were on the PS2 and GameCube, and often did just that. And it can directly benefit the games and make them more fun. I don't think he was saying it should be remembered for being first in those areas, but how advanced it was and that it would age better than the competition. I'll remember Project Gotham Racing 2 down the line because of not only how great of a game it was and how fun it was, but the great times I had online with it through Xbox Live, racing to my favorite songs due to playing ripped cd's off it hard drive, and the two great booster packs it had that added entire new locations and cars to the game and extended its life several times.

    All that was made possible by the advancements MS made over the competition a generation ago.
    Sorry Leo_Ames for doing this as it's really not important to this thread and I do agree with your point that some of the people here were talking about how technical aspects makes games better, but half Japanese 2 posts above me said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Half Japanese View Post
    In addition to that, the Xbox will be remembered for the following:

    - First console to feature in-game 5.1 surround sound
    - First console to feature HD resolution graphics (720p, 1080i)
    - First streamlined online setup for consoles (streamlined is the key word here)
    - First console to be truly worthwhile to hack/mod
    Last edited by Jackattack; 03-18-2008 at 11:49 PM.

  13. #33
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    I agree that the XB will be the least memorable. There were so few games that interested me - Ninja Gaiden, Halo, Otogi 1+2 and not much else. The updated versions of Silent Hill 2 and Fatal Frame 1+2 were nice, but they offered little more than what was present within the original PS2 versions. I feel about the same when considering the 360. A few great games that force me to keep the system, but that's about it.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) graciano1337's Avatar
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    If it isn't remembered for the games, it will be remembered for how easy it was to mod. Sorta like how the DC got surge of attention even after Sega pulled the plug.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Leo_A's Avatar
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    Yeah, you got me there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roushimsx View Post
    Strongly disagree. The system generally had the best versions of multiplatform titles (with only a small number of exceptions), plenty of excellent exclusives (Crimson Skies? Forza? Rallisport Challenge 2? Ghost Recon 2? Oddworld Stranger's Wrath? Ninja Gaiden Black? Unreal Championship 2? Chronicles of Riddick?!?! ...well ok, there was a PC port of that) and some nice niche titles that keep the hardcore gamer demographic nice and happy (Gunvalkyrie, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, Metal Wolf Chaos, Breakdown).
    Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon 2 was not very exclusive, it got a PS2 and gamecube port.

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    Alex (Level 15) boatofcar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanMurf View Post
    Ill let my AVATAR speak for itself.
    You modded your Xbox to look like a 360?

  18. #38
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    I only recently got an Xbox and I've really been enjoying it. The library of worthwhile games on the system is large (albeit a little narrow, mostly FPSs).

    I think the system will age well, unless it becomes completely superceded by the Xbox360. They both basically play the same genre of games, I could see it being forgotten if it gets lost in the 360's shadow.

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    Great Puma (Level 12) bangtango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emceelokey View Post
    If, let's say Madden '05 was coming out and you wanted the game and had all of the systems what would you choose. The GC version which will not have online play, probably lesser graphics than even the PS2 version, and will require you to buy a 251 block memory card if you want to create a custom roster, and will probably miss a few extras compared to the PS and XBox version. The PS2 version which will probably crawl when loading your custom rosters and every menu you go into, and have a lackluster online mode (if any) or the Xbox version which eliminates all of those problems. Remember this is the release week and all 3 versions cost $50. To me the choice is easy.
    In the defense of the Gamecube and PS2, Madden 05 (or any of the Madden's) play fine on there when the game is in progress.

    But yeah, the better graphics, faster loading times and hard drive capabilities make all the difference in the world.

    I have eight sports games on the Gamecube (football/basketball) and have them spread across 2 memory cards, both of which are chock full just from the Franchise mode in each game. I don't have enough blocks remaining to save the settings or my user records in half of those games. That is asinine.

    Meanwhile, I've got 20-25 franchise modes going on right now on Xbox, maybe more, spread across numerous sports titles. Custom rosters, seasons, franchises, tournament modes, created players, user records, settings, some games with 2 simultaneous franchise modes. The whole nine yards. That hard drive has got a ton of room left. I could have twice the amount of stuff on there and still be left with lots of space.

    The low price of the Gamecube may have been appealing to some people but not to a guy like me who had to go out and pay for 2 memory cards just to hold a fraction of the content that the Xbox hard drive can. That's $40-50 more right there. It got to the point where I quit buying GC sports stuff since I wouldn't have room for them on a memory card anyway and didn't feel like turning a $10 used game into a $30-35 purchase (by getting another memory card). No thanks. Let the next sucker fall for that.
    Last edited by bangtango; 03-19-2008 at 01:01 PM.

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    Great Puma (Level 12) skaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trade-N-Games View Post
    Great system with a ton of great games. I think it will be remembered however goodluck finding one that will work. I see them almost everyday at my store with a dead hard drives.
    Care to sell a bunch with dead HDs in a bulk order?

    Seriously, I have 3 Xboxes in my house - all media players/emulator machines. I think I played about 5 Xbox games ever... everything I did was PS2.

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