How long do CD-based games last?

[James8BitStar]

Ugh I've been using Memorex (both as Burner and Media) for years. Maybe that's my problem.

Also I burn with Nero. Is that a problem?

I'm all but set to order one of those Lite-On drives now. Wanting to see if I can find it in a store first.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I use CDrWin and Disk Juggler for DC stuff. For me the CD-R of choice is Maxell CD-R Pro. Before, I used Phillips and TDK (supposedly high grade stuff)... until I got tired of making coasters. I still have an old burned disk that still works (burned 1998) but it's just data backup from an old computer and it reads real slow. Interesting enough the disk was made by Acer. Weird.

[Nodtveidt]

I use several versions of Nero for burning PCE backups, never had a problem. My drives are an HP dvd840i and an Optiarc CD-RW CRX880A. I generally use Memorex discs but have used other brands as well. I have had a great number of Fujifilm discs go bad so I avoid them. The problem here is that since we used to live so close to the ocean, the air was very harsh and will oxidize things far quicker than if we were to live inland. Everything metal rusts in short order, even appliances (the top of our chest freezer, which is barely 3 years old, is covered in rust, and it's been inside since the day we bought it). Since moving to a different town though (further away from the ocean), we've had very little problem with it. So then, looking back on a few discs I've had, both pressed and burned...many Fujifilm CDRs have died, a few Memorex discs have died, and a great number of "no-name" discs have died due to holes in the surface (during storage!). I've lost quite a bit of work due to that. My copy of Dark Wizard for the Sega CD died in storage, as did my copy of Roller Coaster Tycoon for the PC and my copy of Parasite Eve for the Playstation. I've yet to have a PCE, Saturn, or PS2 disc go bad but it's only a matter of time.

Oh, almost forgot...the harsh sea air here on the island also killed my Sega Genesis. I went to power it up one day and all I got was a black screen (and this was attached to the Sega CD, so it wasn't a cart issue). So then I went to try a cart...same problem. Opened her up...rust all over the shielding and corrosion on the motherboard. Dead as a doornail.

[slackur]

*sigh*

I wish I could figure this out.

-Well, B-Boobie, I've never really worked with any serious chemicals, and I don't use much in terms of cleaners in my media room (except occasionally goo-gone and stuff to get stickers off classic plastic, but those are away from the cds)

-InsaneDavid, Poofta, I don't know what I'd have done wrong in terms of storage. My collection gets randomly played every weekend. The majority of the discs are stored vertically. I open every cd/dvd game I own at least once every two or three years, and cases themselves get shuffled every time I re-alpha for new games. The entire collection has gone through about a dozen different shelving systems over the years. So, stuff definitely gets moved, but very carefully. Also, I am very careful to keep this stuff at the correct temperature. Any ideas?

-G-Boobie, I wish that cheap pirated games could account for it, but I generally buy from retail (working in game stores for the discount/freebies) and I've got newly purchased cd/dvd games from several stores (even purchased in different states) over several generations of game machines, and the problem seems to have randomly affected discs across nearly the entire spectrum of my collection. I know this seems to leave storage as the main culprit, but I'm COMPLETELY at a loss as to what would have happened there. And as for factory-pressed discs not able to degrade and "pin-hole" (since the bronzing issue, anyway) I know what I've read and heard about it not able to happen, but I know the current state of my collection. Also, I know at least four other collectors who have experienced similar issues as mine, and two of us lived elsewhere (including other states) so I can't isolate location/humidity as a culprit. We're in Pennsylvania, under proper air conditioning and heat.

Sorry, I'm sure I might come across as frustrating over this, but I just simply wish I could figure it out! I would completely admit fault if I found something I had done wrong, but for the life of me I still don't know what it could be, and until I know, I'm going to be left annoying folks by picking brains over a situation that by all accounts reflects the urban legend/myth of data-rot.

Not to sound pompous or negative, but anyone with a scope of knowledge on the subject living near the Erie, PA area is welcome to stop by and offer their thoughts after reviewing what I'm talking about and viewing it firsthand. I'd even try to get some of my fellow collectors this also affected to bring some of their case examples over. And, dare I say, we could but a few classics in for a spin just for fun

I'd still like everyone to continue asking or prompting ideas on what happened/is happening, Lord knows I want/need to know. I know what people say it CANNOT be, I need to know then what it IS! The only reason I say data-rot is that the story explains it better than anything else I know, not because I have to cling to the idea that it is true. I want to honestly know.

Bleh.

Thanks for the help so far, guys.

[pugmagician]

I actually live just about an hour and a half south of you (Hermitage, PA), but I have never had any problem with disc rot (of pressed games that is) myself. Though something that might be affecting it is the humitity, I know it gets rather humid in our neck of the woods, and I'm pretty sure that can be a factor to rot. You should really invest in a dehumidifier and run it where you keep your cd based games, I know that damn thing will fill up rather fast I've had to have one in some places I've lived because of the humitity.

[slackur]

I know what you mean, Pugmagician. I've always had to monitor our home's humidity, though. Not just for the collection, but because I can't sleep well in even slight humidity, and I've got two little ones and a wife who hates humidity as much as me. The media room is where we spend the most time anyway, so it has always been the most temp/humidity controlled place everywhere I've lived. My collection has always existed in temp/humidity well within the normal limits posted for disc care. And nothing else that could easily be damaged in humidity (my pc/electronic repair stuff, strat guides/instructions for games, etc.) seem to have any problem. Even my paper boxed stuff has survived well, given the normal deterioration of that kind of material. Long story still too long, I don't think it is humidity. But thanks for the suggestion.

And, if you ever know you'll be in the area, send me a message and we can throw a game in. Weekends are almost always gametime at my pad

[pugmagician]

I've got no other idea's myself then on how that could be happening to your collection then, other than maybe bad presses (though I'm very sorry for your losses in it, I know how I'd feel if some of mine just became bad like that). Also I may take you up on that offer sometime, my wife and I will travel up there every once in a while to go hunting for games, yours is a good area to find rare/pricy stuff cheap. My wife is also a gamer and she'd probably like a little social activities with fellow gamers. My wife and I are both truck drivers so we don't see many people.

[noname11]

Ive had quite a few pressed discs go bad... strangely enough, all dreamcast games

3 sonic adventures (but i heard there was manufacturing issues with this title)

1 powerstone 2

1 Marvel vs Capcom 2.

the last two worked on a few occasions, then quit working completely on all my dreamcasts.

and yet my badly scratched up previous rental psone games play back fine , go figure..

[slackur]

noname11, I had the same problem with several DC games, including Sonic Adventure, Hydrothunder, and Blue Stinger. Unfortunately, all three of those (and Ready 2 Rumble, I think) were confirmed bad presses and had known issues on the first print run. I don't count those as the same problem as the pin-holes in my other discs. I do have a "data-rotted" MvC 1 and PowerStone, though, among others (makes me cry, I love both those games. MvC was store-bought new.)

Pugmagician, my email is elison777@yahoo.com if you ever get to stop by. My wife is also a gamer and would love to have other 'gamer chicks' to hang out with Just drop me a line anytime.

[Poofta!]

Ugh I've been using Memorex (both as Burner and Media) for years. Maybe that's my problem.

Also I burn with Nero. Is that a problem?

I'm all but set to order one of those Lite-On drives now. Wanting to see if I can find it in a store first.

try to get it on newegg.com

you can get a lite on dvd burner for like 40 bucks now

I use CDrWin and Disk Juggler for DC stuff. For me the CD-R of choice is Maxell CD-R Pro. Before, I used Phillips and TDK (supposedly high grade stuff)... until I got tired of making coasters. I still have an old burned disk that still works (burned 1998) but it's just data backup from an old computer and it reads real slow. Interesting enough the disk was made by Acer. Weird.

ive always used nero. and try to use TDK as much as possible. i have yet to burn a coaster that wasnt my fault (i caused: shoddy image, bad drivers, atapi problems etc). and ive been burning media for about 8 years now. ( i know a lot of you probably been doing this longer)

[Poofta!]

slackur, you actually sound rather upset and distraught, not pompus or mean in any way. i feel for you, i would be devastated if some of my favorite games, that i invest hard earned cash in (as well as time in searching) were to go bad.

sorry man, i do wish we find something out, and prevent this from happening.


on a side note, i live in coney island, brooklyn, nyc. right across the street from the ocean. my room is often exposed to rather cold temperatures and humid/hot climate in the summer, as im not always home to leave the AC on and if i do the AC freezes in side and starts spewing water everywhere (wtf?).

my games used to be kept in the open for about 2 years and have spent about a year now in a wooden closet which has a constant warm temp. ive looked through some of my oldest cd games and havent noticed anything.

also, my sega cd games where kept by the window for years (2ish), where they were in very cold and hot temperatures, and still ok

[Poofta!]

quick note: i just opened up a pack of DVD+Rs that i bought (sony brand) and the insert says that they should be stored in temperatures ranging from 23-122F and 5%-90% humidity. those are very wide operating ranges... would factory pressed CDs be the same? then we can strike out temperature/humidity causes since i doubt anything in his collection was exposed to anything beyond that?

[InsaneDavid]

For me the CD-R of choice is Maxell CD-R Pro. Before, I used Phillips and TDK (supposedly high grade stuff)... until I got tired of making coasters.

TDK is way too dependent on country of origin, almost like Memorex a few years ago (but never that bad). Sometimes you get good grade media, sometimes it's total crap. However if you can find a good string of TDK media it'll hold up well and won't cost you all that much.

[digitalpress]

I've stayed out of this thread because it actually made me think through it all again - doubt the integrity of some of my older CD games. So I picked three games that have been listed here as "data rot" contenders and with somewhat of a lump in my throat, fired them up.

PCE Dracula X - this one was the most frightening because I really don't want to have to spend 100-200 dollars on a game again. Whew, at least up until the third level, no issues. I also did my store-certified quality check: looking for the light to shine through from the data side while holding it up against the bright island lights. Lucky for me, none of the little "holes" I've seen on topside-scratch discs can be reported here.

3DO Hell - if any game were crappy enough to be put on crap media, this is it. Surely this game won't work and if it doesn't, I won't miss it. After waiting through numerous load screens, I finally got to the game. Then I waited through numerous load screens as I played the game. WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT. And yet, it seems to work as it did back in the 90's. Badly.

Dreamcast Marvel vs. Capcom 2 - I have my doubts that previous owners who found their disc "go bad" has anything to do with bit rot, and I've salvaged quite a few non-working MvC2 discs at my store with our disk resurfacer, but what the hell. Maybe MY copy is bad! Brought it to the store, tried it out on the Dreamcast kiosk. After winning 10 games and losing 23 (yes, I SUCK), I determined that my game is functioning fine.

So then I picked the OLDEST CD's I have. Maybe one of these would be a problem.

Depeche Mode Black Celebration Audio CD - sounds better than ever, actually.

TurboGrafx-16 CD Monster Lair - I think this was the first videogame CD I ever bought. At the time I thought the game really sucked. Playing it now on a Duo I have a little different perspective. This is actually a damn fine game. This experiment was revealing in more ways than one.

I'm not sure what was "proven" here, other than the fact that I have discs that work fine where others have stated these same games have broken down. Are my discs about to go bad? Who can say. When this topic comes up in another two months I guess I'll be compelled to try again.

[slackur]

Thanks for understanding, Poofta. It's not the end of the world to loose stuff, of course, but I've had people really gripe about how it's not data rot without telling me what it could possibly be.

Anyhoo, I can't say exact humidity for 100% of the time, but it's been comfortable for me and my family, and while I like it a little cool and as little humidity as possible, I don't freeze out or place the stuff that close to windows. I'm glad your stuff is o.k.!

[slackur]

Joe, I'm curious, have you ever seen pin holes or other strange little light holes in pressed media that couldn't really be explained by surface scratches (top or bottom?) I know you would be able to tell, and I would really like help on this!

I've worked several years in game retail in both mom/pop game stores and major retailers (gamestop *shudder*) and I see these same pin holes every now and then that don't seem to be due to scratches. Now, I know the condition many (most) people bring used games in to trade (ice skating ring practice), but this includes new stuff and has covered every cd/dvd format over the years.

Actually, until I began seriously researching the matter, I assumed data rot to be an understood problem between collectors. It wasn't until recently that I realized it was considered a myth by many media experts. I know the difference between bad presses, scratches, strange labels, even easily scratched top label discs, as well as the problems inherent in most home recorded disc.

I'm not out to prove data rot, just hoping to keep the discussion alive long enough to know how to keep more of my collection from deteriorating further, if possible.

That, and to know I'm not living in the twilight zone with this!

[noname11]

could cleaning agents be at fault for cd rot? I remember reading an article a while back that certain cleaning solvents intended for hard surfaces may render cds inoperable.

im thinking wood polish/hairspray/etc and some of the spray residue ends up on your games. Would this be possible? I know that my family likes to clean at no end, and my games are often near.

[slackur]

Well, the only cleaning agents I've used on optical media have been rubbing alchohol and a lens soft cloth for fingerprints and such. I dust, but I don't use any cleaner/polish in the media room.

If we take temp/humidity out, chemical exposure seems a likely candidate, but my collection hasn't really been exposed to anything harsher than isopropyl and feather dusters. Even the shelves have been either plastic or the cheapo pressed wood stuff from wallmart. Poor taste, sure (waiting to buy our house so I can build nice shelves) but nothing toxic as far as I know.

[Ed Oscuro]

When this topic comes up in another two months I guess I'll be compelled to try again.

Haha, try something different next time - do a running survey of all your games

[Ed Oscuro]

Interesting enough the disk was made by Acer. Weird.

Not made, branded.