My printed copy of the Classic Guide has a fairly extensive listing of import and PAL 2600 games with rarities and values, but the online guide has relatively few. Where'd they all go?
Atari 2600 Import/PAL list - where'd it go?
My printed copy of the Classic Guide has a fairly extensive listing of import and PAL 2600 games with rarities and values, but the online guide has relatively few. Where'd they all go?
Well, it looks like a number of unique PAL releases got dropped then (example: Acid Drop by Salu).
And as someone who picks up the occasional 2600 import, it was nice to use the guide to check whether a particular game was original or just a name variant. Guess I'll have to use Atarimania for this.
Acid Drop should have stayed (it's back in the master file). Please lmk if there are any others missing, but as you can see from the list below, there aren't very many original PAL games:
Acid Drop
Asteroid Fire
Astrowar
Base Attack
Bobby is Going Home
Burning Desire
Cathouse Blues
Dancing Plate
Dragon Defender
Exocet
Fatal Run
Forest
Frisco
Ghostbusters II
Go Go Home Monster
IQ-180
Klax
Knight on the Town
Lily Adventure
Magic Puzzle
Mega Boy Educational Cartridge
Missile Control
Mission 3,000 A.D.
Mission Survive
Motocross
Mr. Postman
My Golf
Nightmare
Nuts
Open Sesame
Panda Chase
Parachute
Phantom Tank
Pharaoh's Curse
Pitfall II: The Lost Caverns (special contest version)
Racing Car
Repro Cart
Save Our Ship
Sea Monster
Seahawk
Ski Hunt
Ski Run
Skindiver
Sky Alien
Snail Against Squirrel
Space Tunnel
Spider Monster
Steeple Chase
Surfer's Paradise: But Danger Below!
Time Warp
Topsy
Treasure Below
unknown
unknown
unknown
Wall Break
Wing War
Words-Attack
World End
X'Mission
Think about it - would a collector be as willing to spend a few thousand dollars on an ultra-rare original or a pirate? Atarimania is a good site, but they claim to track more than 7,000 different cartridge titles. Now, obviously there aren't that many different games. Aside from tracking bootleg/pirates, they also track every label variation as well, which is how they arrive at 7,000+ (doing a search on PAL titles pulls up 1,799 listings). I don't see any way to have a search ignore label variations or to differentiate between original and pirate versions, which means when you do a search for say, Space Invaders, it pulls up 93 listings. That's fine for an online guide, but hardly desirable when it comes to publishing it in book form. You want to sit down and establish rarity ratings for all 93 variations, or try to figure out which ones to keep and which ones to drop? I sure as hell don't, which is why I'm opting to stick with originals. Besides, other than the folks at Atarimania, I don't know of anyone who's THAT into collecting every variation of a given game. The book caters to everyone, not that 0.05% segment of collectors, otherwise if it did, the book would be GINORMOUS.
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are they going to only list exclusives or will there be the entire licensed and legit released game list?
If they made a movie out of your top five worst sins, what would it be rated?
Check out my list of trades on GameTZ Link
Oh, I understand the need to keep the printed guide down to a reasonable page count. For the online guide, would it be feasible to include an 'also-known-as' section in the games' descriptions? I'll look thru my PAL collection to see if you're missing anything else but I'll have to use Atarimania's lists since many of mine have different titles than on your list.
Also, if the goal is to list only PAL exclusives, why are games like Phantom Tank (which was released in the US as Tank Brigade) and Sea Hawk included?
-Ron
Following up:
I have 4 PAL games that aren't on your list and seem to have not been released in the US:
Eddy Langfinger (aka Mysterious Thief)
Farmyard Fun
My Way (aka Challenge)
Pick & Pile
And, according to Atarimania, these games on the list did have a US release:
Asteroid Fire = Great Escape
Base Attack = Z Tack
Burning Desire (Playaround)
Cathouse Blues (Playaround)
Dancing Plate = Dishaster
Exocet = Cruise Missile (also Panda)
Knight on the Town (Playaround)
Magic Puzzle = Dice Puzzle
Nightmare = Stuntman
Open Sesame = I Want My Mommy
Phantom Tank = Tank Brigade
Seahawk = Sea Hawk
Skindiver = Sea Hunt
Sky Alien = Assault
Space Tunnel = Cosmic Corridor
Spider Monster = Spider Kong
Wall Break = Wall Defender
Stonic,
Please check our Guide to see how to track down originals:
http://www.atarimania.com/guide/2600..._originals.php
Just click on Original version on our Advanced Search page to create any original version list you want:
http://www.atarimania.com/rech_advan...=2&TYPE_CODE=G
Easy as pie.
But you probably already know that, as your list was generated by using it (I can tell by noticing the inclusion of the three unknowns and the missing Acid Drop and Pick & Pile I forgot to tag as originals).
Ok, let me help you here:
Acid Drop
Asteroid Fire
Astrowar
Base Attack
Bobby is Going Home
Burning Desire
Cathouse Blues
Dancing Plate
Dragon Defender
Exocet
Fatal Run
Forest
Frisco
Ghostbusters II
Go Go Home Monster (still not found yet)
IQ-180 (not confirmed to exist - better list it as Suntek's I.Q. Memory Teaser for now)
Klax
Knight on the Town
Lily Adventure
Magic Puzzle (not confirmed to exist - better list it as Sancho's Dice Puzzle for now)
Mega Boy Educational Cartridge (AFAIK not PAL, but NTSC)
Missile Control
Mission 3,000 A.D.
Mission Survive
Motocross
Mr. Postman
My Golf
Nightmare
Nuts
Open Sesame
Panda Chase
Parachute
Phantom Tank
Pharaoh's Curse
Pick & Pile (new added)
Pitfall II: The Lost Caverns (special contest version) (still not found yet)
Racing Car
Repro Cart
Save Our Ship
Sea Monster
Seahawk
Ski Hunt
Ski Run
Skindiver
Sky Alien
Snail Against Squirrel
Space Tunnel
Spider Monster (the original is now listed as Inca Gold, an earlier released version)
Steeple Chase
Surfer's Paradise: But Danger Below!
Time Warp
Topsy (must be Topy)
Treasure Below
unknown (Suntek's SS-026, most probably called Treasure Island)
unknown (Suntek's SS-034, most probably called Farmyard Fun)
unknown (Suntek's Zoo Fun, recently found. Although quite different, please know that this game is based on code of Home Vision's Panda Chase!)
Wall Break
Wing War
Words-Attack (is actually a Sancho prototype based on a still unknown Home Vision title)
World End
X'Mission
8)
Last edited by Rom Hunter; 10-08-2008 at 03:48 PM.
The book version still has an "AKA" section for alternate names. It should be possible to add it to the online version, but that's something (online guide code changes) I'm not involved with.Originally Posted by Wookie
Because... I missed themAlso, if the goal is to list only PAL exclusives, why are games like Phantom Tank (which was released in the US as Tank Brigade) and Sea Hawk included?
-Ron
Phantom Tank was also released in the U.S. by Zimag (as Tanks But No Tanks). But in this case I should probably include both. Bit Corp has often released their games with different names by different companies, so it's possible Zimag was one (or the only?) such U.S. distributor. Panda mostly re-released NTSC versions of Sancho's PAL games.
I'd like to include games that aren't flat-out pirate copies or simple hacks (such as changing the copyright). Games like Seahawk and Frisco use much code from legit games Chopper Command and Pac-Man respectively, but with enough changes to be considered different. And with those, I'm noting the fact that they aren't completely original.
Last edited by stonic; 10-10-2008 at 11:10 PM.
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Good to know, thanks.
First, it's not *my* list, it's DP's. I simply copy & pasted the PAL section as it currently is from our database. The bulk of our PAL section was originally created years ago, mainly by Marco Kerstens and Roloff de Jeu, which was probably used as a starting point for Atarimania's.But you probably already know that, as your list was generated by using it...
It'd be nice if we could help each other out, instead of .. ya know, "borrowing" from each other.
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Understood.
Stonic,
If you have any questions about (foreign) VCS games, please let me know.
I would be glad to help where possible.
Keep up the good work!
8)
Not found? Not sure what you mean since the ROM exists...
http://www.atarimania.com/detail_sof...RSION_ID=15661
If that's a Suntek original, then I'm surprised that's the name since the screen shows it as IQ-180. I tend to go with the name as it appears onscreen first.IQ-180 (not confirmed to exist - better list it as Suntek's I.Q. Memory Teaser for now)
Aren't some of Home Vision's titles pirate (i.e. not originals)? Whereas all of Sancho's other titles are originals, correct? I would tend to think that Dice Puzzle is a Sancho original.
Magic Puzzle (not confirmed to exist - better list it as Sancho's Dice Puzzle for now)
Yep. For some reason my rom was labeled PAL but it's indeed NTSC.Mega Boy Educational Cartridge (AFAIK not PAL, but NTSC)
... and likely won't, as this was made specifically in Activision's UK office. Even Crane wasn't aware of this version.Pitfall II: The Lost Caverns (special contest version) (still not found yet)
Looking at Funvision's listing on your site, out of 22 titles, only 3 are supposedly original. It's hard to believe that any of them are. Are you certain those 3 are originals? (verified with CloneSpy?). Take Challenge - we know Zellers' entire catalog is pirated software so there's no question with them, but at least HES was a legit distributor, albeit of games from other companies. The one original they did have was actually developed by Absolute. In other words, HES didn't develop any games (that we know of) but at least they didn't pirate any.Spider Monster (the original is now listed as Inca Gold, an earlier released version)
Like Funvision, it's hard to think that Suntek would have been developing new games, though hacking is "better" than outright piratingunknown (Suntek's Zoo Fun, recently found. Although quite different, please know that this game is based on code of Home Vision's Panda Chase!)
Again, I would think it's a Sancho original, given there's at least a prototype, whereas the only "proof" Home Vision has is an ad.Words-Attack (is actually a Sancho prototype based on a still unknown Home Vision title)
So many of these PAL game companies ripped off legit developers (and sometimes each other) that it's hard to believe most would have even one original game that they developed.Did any of these companies produce manuals, catalogs, press kits, or similar literature, other than magazine ads?
Btw, RealSports Basketball could technically be considered either NTSC or PAL (since the scanline count is on the fence between both), but it was obviously planned to be NTSC (first - esp since the programmer only did NTSC games) and wouldn't have been released in it's current form
Last edited by stonic; 10-10-2008 at 10:49 PM.
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That's the ROM of Alien's Return from ITT Family Games.
I put it there, because I know 99,9% certain that the Go Go Home Monster ROM is 100% identical to it.
Go Go Home Monster itself however, is still not found.
I still have hope though.
This one was found yesterday:
http://atarimania.com/zoom_frame.php...=2&NUM_IMAGE=3
It carries a sticker with the model number and (misspelled) title of Meteor Defense:
http://atarimania.com/zoom_frame.php...=2&NUM_IMAGE=3
The other title of ITT Family Games' doppelpack is Alien's Return, aka Go Go Home Monster...
It's not a Suntek original (Suntek did not release any original games), but the original Home Vision version (most probably called IQ-180) is still not found.
I can understand why you want to stick to the IQ-180 title, though.
After all, that is most probably the original title of the game.
Unfortunately, a Home Vision cart with this title has still not been found.
That's why I suggested to list it as I.Q. Memory Teaser for now.
Not all the Sancho games are originals!
Thomas Jentzsch found the Home Vision logo inside the ROM data of Sancho's Words Attack.
That's why I'm willing to believe that Dice Puzzle was originally a Home Vision game, called Magic Puzzle.
But, just like IQ-180, the Home Vision version has never been found.
That's why I suggested to list it as Dice Puzzle for now.
That's right, but the Challenge ROM contains unactivated data that contained the Funvision logo.
The fact that I listed the three Funvision titles as originals, is because these versions are the oldest, according to CloneSpy and further ROM examinations.
They carry the Funvision logo, while later versions de-activated or replaced that logo.
That doesn't automatically mean that Funvision originally created those titles, but there simply aren't any older versions known to exist.
As mentioned above, Thomas Jentzsch found the Home Vision '83 logo inside the ROMs data, so it's mosty likely a Home Vision original.
Also, Kurt Howe discovered that this ROM contains a whole block of "carbage" data, that was most probably reserved for a "word-pool", to give meaning to its gameplay.
Therefore it's still a prototype and not a complete game.
Hmmm.So many of these PAL game companies ripped off legit developers (and sometimes each other) that it's hard to believe most would have even one original game that they developed.
TechnoVision and Video Gems come to mind.
Yes, I know.Btw, RealSports Basketball could technically be considered either NTSC or PAL (since the scanline count is on the fence between both), but it was obviously planned to be NTSC (first - esp since the programmer only did NTSC games) and wouldn't have been released in it's current form
That one is an "in-between" case indeed.
8)
Last edited by Rom Hunter; 10-11-2008 at 05:22 AM.
Dynacom
Mega Boy Educational Cartridge (AFAIK not PAL, but NTSC)If you are listing the Dynacom MegaBoy, it was a PAL-M system. Pal-M is compatible with NTSC but carry a different colour system.The MegaBoy COMPACT Educational Video System seems to be one of that odd thing from Brazil. If you wanted a licensed "COMPACT" system that really looked like a SEGA Game Gear, there was the SEGA Master System Super Compact ...
Yep. For some reason my rom was labeled PAL but it's indeed NTSC.
Well, if ITT didn't bother to remove/change the copyright, chances are they didn't do anything to the ROM. Still, that can make things confusing. How many instances are there like that, as far as having the wrong ROMS on entries?
Didn't ITT basically re-release other company's games, like Home Vision's? I think I'll credit Home Vision for that one.
Aren't Dragon Defender, Motocross, and Ski Run originals? Your site lists those titles in bold type. Suntek (or somebody) took the time to remove the copyright info from a few games.It's not a Suntek original (Suntek did not release any original games), but the original Home Vision version (most probably called IQ-180) is still not found.
Then Word Attack shouldn't be in bold type (on your site), correct?Not all the Sancho games are originals!
Thomas Jentzsch found the Home Vision logo inside the ROM data of Sancho's Words Attack.
You keep referring to it as a prototype, yet the picture of the cart on your site shows a finished label. I wouldn't refer to it as such simply because the programmer didn't use all the available memory space. I'm sure there are a few others where that's the case as well. Besides, I've never heard of prototype pirate cartsAs mentioned above, Thomas Jentzsch found the Home Vision '83 logo inside the ROMs data, so it's mosty likely a Home Vision original.
Also, Kurt Howe discovered that this ROM contains a whole block of "carbage" data, that was most probably reserved for a "word-pool", to give meaning to its gameplay.
Therefore it's still a prototype and not a complete game.
Ah, ok. I don't suppose there's any "proof" in the code that I.Q. came from Home Vision? I'm confused with Challenge, since you state the Funvision game is a NTSC conversion of HES's PAL game and that the music in Funvision's version was messed up do to being converted (which would mean HES's version is older). I played through the first level on each and I didn't notice anything wrong with it, other than the usual difference in speed (tempo) as is often the case comparing NTSC and PAL versions. What exactly is wrong with the HES version?... but the Challenge ROM contains unactivated data that contained the Funvision logo.
The fact that I listed the three Funvision titles as originals, is because these versions are the oldest, according to CloneSpy and further ROM examinations.
They carry the Funvision logo, while later versions de-activated or replaced that logo.
That doesn't automatically mean that Funvision originally created those titles, but there simply aren't any older versions known to exist.
I checked and I have some flyers from Technovision, which is actually VTech or Video Technology Ltd. Much like how Home Vision is a brand name for VDI, "Technovision" was just a brand name (or possibly a division of VTech?). Other VTech brands were CreatiVision and Hirsch Co. But Gem International is really the company who made Home Vision's games - Home Vision was just a distributor AFAIK (of mostly Gem Int's games).
I don't have anything for Video Gems though.
And what of games that are copyrighted "R.J.P.G." like Racing Car? How many games have that copyright? And is there any chance that's the original developer/company? I suppose it could be the initials of the programmer(s).
Last edited by stonic; 07-21-2011 at 06:25 AM.
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I think a handful of entries have a 'wrong' ROM added.
But as I said, it's as good as certain that these ROMs are 100% identical to the missing original ones.
The original Home Vision titles of these games are not known, so the Suntek versions are in bold for now.
Btw, each of the three entry page contain a note about this.
Same case here.
We still do not know the original Home Vision title, so Words-Attack is in bold for now.
Well, the player has no goal during gameplay (because of the missing word-pool), so it isn't a finished game.
That's why I still call it a prototype.
It would have never been released as a finished product in this state, simply because there's no goal (trust me, I tested it to the bone before Kurt helped me out).
The fact that it has a finished label doesn't make it a finished game.
Also, it doesn't have to be a pirated cart either.
I think Sancho took this one over from Home Vision, made a label for it and went down (in 1983) just before they could add the much needed word-pool data.
Please remember that this is the only cart known to exist at this moment.
Although a finished label like that should have been printed more than once IMO, no other cart with this label has ever been found in the last 25 years.
So, in my eyes it's a prototype.
Nope.
Thomas Jentzsch examined it and found no Home Vision traces inside.
The only clue I have comes from an old list, which mentioned IQ-180 as a Home Vision game.
Nothing, except that it has unactivated logo data inside, which means that an earlier version was programmed to display a logo.
That question has been bugging me for many years now.
Frisco, Racing Car and Ski Hunt are the three Home Vision titles with the R.J.P.G. initials in it.
ITT Family Games kept these in when they released resp. Peter Penguin, Hell Driver and Mountain Man.
I still don't know where these initials stand for.
Could be a some (inhouse) programmer or programming company.
I honestly don't know.
Thanks for the article!
Great read.
S.S. means SunScience, btw:
http://www.atarimania.com/zoom_frame...=2&NUM_IMAGE=3
8)
Last edited by Rom Hunter; 10-11-2008 at 04:57 PM.
They're terrible, but they do at least have a goal.
Words-Attack just doesn't make any sense to play without word-pool.
You can play it for ages without getting anywhere.
Would be great if someone could program this in, btw.
A finished version could turn into a really nice two player game IMO.
This old list can be found anywhere on the net.
Here's a copy, for example:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/cowtext/arcade/at2600ls.htm
Normally I don't rely on such old hat, incorrect info, but this list also has Magic Carpet listed as a Home Vision title, a title that has never shown up on any other list, but actually turned out to be a (announced) Home Vision title after all:
http://www.atariage.com/forums/index...post&p=1486597
Good point.
All I can say is that at this moment, the oldest known version is the Funvision version, not the HES, Zellers, Cooper Black or Quelle version.
The weird thing is that this version is actually NTSC, instead of PAL and has speed up sound.
Perhaps a PAL version exists as well somewhere, but AFAIK it hasn't surfaced yet.
We're standing in the darkest corners of foreign VCS games territory now.
Really love this 'hobby'.
8)
Last edited by Rom Hunter; 10-12-2008 at 06:58 AM.
Well, the scoring system seems to work fine, as do the reserve lives:
letters = 1 point
top row = 50 points
all other objects = -1 point
getting hit by fire from top row = -50 points
You can keep hitting the top objects and letters for points and simply ignore the word feature. There are many games that you can play for points (i.e. point scrabbing), while ignoring the intended "goal". In other words, even if the game was complete, going after the top row objects might have been the best way to rack up points, much like hunting saucers in Asteroids
Would be great if someone could program this in, btw.
A finished version could turn into a really nice two player game IMO.
That would be cool to see. It doesn't appear that it needs much work to finish.
This old list can be found anywhere on the net.
Here's a copy, for example:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/cowtext/arcade/at2600ls.htm
Normally I don't rely on such old hat, incorrect info, but this list also has Magic Carpet listed as a Home Vision title, a title that has never shown up on any other list, but actually turned out to be a (announced) Home Vision title after all:
http://www.atariage.com/forums/index...post&p=1486597
You mention in that thread that Robot Fight, Sky Alien, Topy, and Wall Break were originally Bit Corp games, although I don't see any Bit Corp entries for them (and Robot Fight is a hack of Missile Command, so it was originally an Atari game) - where did that info come from?
That's because whoever did the PAL conversion didn't adjust the timing, which is a common problem with most conversions. The HES version runs slower overall. Generally, PAL conversions run 7% slower, and NTSC conversions run 10% faster. Try both versions and do this - start a game and keep pushing up. You'll hit the same enemy in both versions, at the same point in the music.The weird thing is that this version is actually NTSC, instead of PAL and has speed up sound.
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I find it hard to believe that I said that.
Robot Fight is most probably the first VCS hack ever made (indeed a hack of Missile Command) and was first released (as a hack) by Dimax / Sinmax as Space Robot.
Sky Alien, Topy and Wall Break were most certainly not originally released by Bit Corporation.
These three titles are Home Vision originals.
Can you please tell/show me the post nr. from that thread?
8)
Last edited by Rom Hunter; 10-12-2008 at 07:15 PM.
http://www.atariage.com/forums/index...c=63491&st=275
I'm assuming the "last 4" games are those you listed.Some of the Home Vision titles are originally Bit Corp. games.
And there's Activision's Tennis of course.
True Home Vision titles that don't carry the Home Vision or R.J.P.G. logo are:
Asteroid Fire (also a Bomb game)
Base Attack (also a Bomb game)
Panda Chase
Parachute
Robot Fight
Sky Alien (also a Bomb game)
Topy
Wall Break (also a Bomb game)
The last four Home Vision titles (originally Bit Corp games) all have the Home Vision logo on screen, but the review version of Jacky Jump (Bobby Is Going Home) still carries the Bit Corp logo.
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That's correct.
I was talking about the last four titles of the list shown on post #1.
BTW: I'm going to do another examination of all the Challenge ROMs I know.
Perhaps I can find out some more about the game's true origin.
Quite a challenge indeed.
I will keep you informed.
8)
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