Sony PSP2 to use PowerVR SGX55x graphics processor ?

[airraid]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/26/i...h-sony-for-ps/

Imagination Technologies said to have signed on with Sony for PSP successor

by Donald Melanson, posted Nov 26th 2008 at 8:01PM

Well, this is certainly interesting. While Imagination Technologies itself isn't going any further than to say that it has signed a licensing deal with a "major international consumer electronics company," EETimes.com is reporting that the company in question is, in fact, Sony, and that the deal concerns Imagination's PowerVR architecture being used in the successor to the PSP. More specifically, according to EETimes' unnamed sources, the PSP 2 will be using Imagination's SGX55x core, which itself, of course, still hasn't been officially announced either. As EETimes notes, if that turns out to be the case, it would certainly be quite the coup for Imagination, especially considering that its PowerVR MBX technology has already found its way into the iPhone, among other devices.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/11/28/so...mment-on-psp2/1

Sony refuses to comment on PSP2
Author: Joe Martin
Published: 28th November 2008


Sony is refusing to either confirm or deny that the heavily rumoured PSP2 is nearing completion.


Sony is adamantly refusing to either confirm or deny the rumour that the new PSP model, the PSP2, is readying for release despite a fresh bunch of rumours circulating that indicate the handheld may be nearing completion.

Speculation was renewed this week when a spokesperson for Imagination Technologies Group announced a new partnership with an "international consumer electronics company".

While the spokesperson would not confirm what company exactly the partnership was with, the EE Times did confirm that the two would be working on a high-volume consumer device called the PSP2.

The partnership would certainly seem to make sense too as Imagination Technologies has a fair bit of experience when it comes to designing products like the PSP. The company not only created the graphics system used by Apple's iPhone, but it has also signed a new contract with Apple that will see the two companies continuing to work together.

Sony has refused to comment on whether or not it is even involved with Imagination though and has previously claimed to have a ten-year plan for the current PSP model. With the PSP only just having had a redesign earlier this year as well it's hard to tell if Sony really is working on the PSP2 or not.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/27-11-2008-10049.html

PowerVR to drive PSP2?
By James Orry - 27/11/2008 - 3:35pm GMT

The Buzz: Imagination Technologies rumoured to have made an agreement with Sony.


According to EE Times Imagination Technologies Group, a developer of graphics processor cores, has secured a deal with Sony to supply the graphics processor for the PSP2.

Imagination Technologies announced on Monday that it had signed a license agreement with a new partner, a major international consumer electronics company, for a forthcoming member of Imagination's POWERVR SGX graphics processor family. No names were mentioned, but EE Times sources suggest Imagination will be supplying the graphics processor for Sony's PSP2 - specifically its SGX55x core.

Sony has labelled the story as rumour and speculation and refused to offer further comment.

http://www.pspworld.com/sony-psp/accessori...aled-009549.php

Sony PSP 2 Graphics Processor Revealed?
By Kris Erickson | Posted on Nov 28, 2008
Posted by kris

A British company may have won the contract to design and build the next-generation graphics processor for the PSP2. Imagination Technologies Group announced in a press release this week that the company has signed a license agreement with a new partner, “a major consumer electronics company.” Industry sources say that the partner is almost certainly Sony, and that the SGX55x graphics chip will be used in the upcoming PSP2. The secrecy on the part of Imagination Technologies makes sense, because Sony is understandably unwilling to announce its plans for a PSP successor just yet. Imagination's PowerVR MBX chip is already being used in the Apple iPhone, so Sony finds itself in good company with this manufacturer.

The SGX55x chip promises to be much more powerful than what is currently found in the PSP. At the moment, the PSP uses a proprietary GPU designed by Sony that is very similar to the older graphics processor in the PS2.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=202690

PSP2 in the works?
Thursday 27-Nov-2008 3:10 PM Imagination Technologies rumoured to be working on PSP2 processors

Imagination Technologies Group, a licensor of graphics processor cores, is rumoured to be working with Sony on a new PSP.

Earlier this week Imagination announced that it had signed a licensing agreement with 'a major international consumer electronics company', now thought to be Sony, to work on a high-volume consumer device.

The 'announcement by Imagination is for an upgrade to the Sony PSP2 and the SGX core is expected to be the SGX55x', reports EETimes, citing unnamed sources.

While the report says PSP2, it's unclear whether it's referring to another update to the existing PSP model, like the PSP-3000, or a brand new iteration of the handheld.

We've been on the phone to Sony this morning, who simply told us that the company won't "comment on rumour and speculation".

Still, that doesn't mean it's not true as the platform holders never really stop working on hardware. Just don't expect any official announcements on the matter any time soon.

http://www.thegamereviews.com/articl...vember-28.html

Have the first details on the PSP 2 been leaked?

The PSP, Sony’s first attempt at a handheld gaming device, has met with mixed success. While the device has gained a following among those looking for a powerhouse handheld, it hasn’t been able to match the success of Nintendo’s wildly popular DS unit, and many developers and publishers have been jumping ship in recent months. This has led to speculation that Sony would not release a follow-up device, and might simply cede the handheld market to Nintendo. It would seem that isn’t the case though, as it appears Imagination Technologies is working on some of the first components of the PSP 2.

According to the European arm of EE Times, Imagination has signed an agreement with Sony that will make them the producer of the PSP 2 processor units. While Imagination hasn’t confirmed the rumors, insider sources are saying that the company has been tapped to supply Sony with SGX55x processors for use in their next generation of handhelds. When Sony was contacted for comment they kept quiet as always, once more telling us that they "don’t comment on rumors and speculation."

Since EE got their information from an anonymous source we can’t verify the claims or confirm or kill this rumor yet. Also, it sounds like it’s still very early in the process of creating the next PSP, so Sony likely won’t be talking for a while either. Still, this would seem to indicate that Sony is going ahead with plans to continue the PSP line, so consumers will continue to have a choice for the forseeable future. We’ll keep an eye out for developments, but in the meantime we have a hunch that this story is on the level.

TGR Verdict: Rumor Likely

PowerVR family, uses:

PowerVR Series 1 (old PCX1, PCX2 graphics cards from 1997)
PowerVR Series 2 (Dreamcast/NAOMI, Neon 250 PC card, NAOMI 2)
PowerVR Series 3 (KYRO PC cards)
PowerVR Series 4 (canceled)
PowerVR MBX (blend of Series 3 and canceled Series 4, used in many mobile devices)
PowerVR SGX (mobile side of Series 5 used in current & next-gen mobile devices, Pandora handheld game system, PSP2?)
PowerVR Series 6 (future)

[swlovinist]

This makes sense and Sony needs to have the PSP2 out within a year or two. I remember when Sony was saying 10 year life cycle with the PSP . I am sure the PSP2 will address some of the shortcomings of the PSP, I look forward to seeing what they come up with

[kupomogli]

Didn't Sony only say 10 years with the PS3?

Anyways. With both PSX and PS2, Sony kept the systems alive for years after their deaths. The PS3 came out a few years ago and the PS2 is still going strong(though the last first party games were God of War 2 and Twisted Metal Head On, I think.)

If the PSP2 is created I hope it still supports the UMD drive with higher capacity UMD for PSP2 games and has backwards compatibility with the original UMD games.

[jajaja]

This makes sense and Sony needs to have the PSP2 out within a year or two. I remember when Sony was saying 10 year life cycle with the PSP . I am sure the PSP2 will address some of the shortcomings of the PSP, I look forward to seeing what they come up with

Are you sure Sony said that a 10 year life cycle for the PSP? As kupomogli asked, didnt Sony only said that for the PS3?

[unwinddesign]

If the unit doesn't have a touch screen, removable controls for on the go media play (i.e. you can chop off the triangle, box etc. buttons along with the d-pad) and is made of fucking non-gloss plastic (stop with this glossy shit Sony, and note to Apple: stop with the chrome backs on the iPods! They get dirty, dammit!), you can count me out.

I think I might go 1/3 on those (touch screen seems plausible, maybe), so I'm not gonna buy one. PSP is a jack of all trades, master of jack shit. It's a shitty media player, it's an average games player (due to that horrible analogue nub...wtf). I've enjoyed mine, and the games are fairly decent, but my god the thing has so much potential it's ridiculous. And it's all wasted. Not a bad first effort, but if #2 doesn't fit into my pocket and is a giant fingerprint magnet etc. etc., then I don't care if it has dual mini SLI 9800 GTs on board -- I'm not buying the damn thing.

[swlovinist]

link to story

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/27/so...ar-life-cycle/

Kind of sounds like the game boy evolution. I predict that Sony will say that the PSP2 is just an evolvement of the PSP which backs up their timeline of 10 years. Either way, the new system will probably have newer games that will probably not be compatible with the PSP. Either way, the orginal PSP is not gonna really be around in a couple of years in retail stores, and will be replaced by a "newer system". That to me is not 10 years, If I have to buy a new system to play new games, that is a replacement.

[DeputyMoniker]

If the unit doesn't have a touch screen, removable controls for on the go media play (i.e. you can chop off the triangle, box etc. buttons along with the d-pad) and is made of fucking non-gloss plastic (stop with this glossy shit Sony, and note to Apple: stop with the chrome backs on the iPods! They get dirty, dammit!), you can count me out.

I think I might go 1/3 on those (touch screen seems plausible, maybe), so I'm not gonna buy one. PSP is a jack of all trades, master of jack shit. It's a shitty media player, it's an average games player (due to that horrible analogue nub...wtf). I've enjoyed mine, and the games are fairly decent, but my god the thing has so much potential it's ridiculous. And it's all wasted. Not a bad first effort, but if #2 doesn't fit into my pocket and is a giant fingerprint magnet etc. etc., then I don't care if it has dual mini SLI 9800 GTs on board -- I'm not buying the damn thing.

You just described a Zune. Maybe consumer-error is the problem.

[boatofcar]

If there's a removable controller or the ability to connect a Dual Shock through usb or something, I'm sold.

[kedawa]

I don't understand why they'd be licensing a specific chipset unless they're planning on bringing this to market in the next year or so. The SGX55x graphics processor might be a great mobile GPU now, but it won't be anything close to cutting edge two years from now.

[swlovinist]

There might be something about that specific chipset that works well with programmers or cost(probably cost). I think that making a profitable and cost sensitive system(espically now) is more important than cutting edge graphics. This is where Sony in the Past has done extremely well. The PS1 and PS2 were not graphic powerhouses, but were sold affordably and were streamlined into being able to sell the core unit itself and still make a profit. I think that Sony knows from its past that betting on cutting edge graphics and technology sometimes gets you burned.

[airraid]

I disagree that PS1 and PS2 were not graphics powerhouses. They were the years they were released, PS1 in 1994/1995 and PS2 in 2000.

PCs and other consoles could not touch the PS1's 3D performance in 1994/1995. The PS2 was also far ahead of the fastest PCs and other consoles in rendering speed/performance (polygons/s, pixels/s, memory bandwidth, although not in image qualuty & textures) in 2000.

[heybtbm]

A fancy new graphics processor...fine, but what we really need are DUAL ANALOG sticks.

Also, the new PSP needs to be as cheap as the successor to the DS or it's dead. Probably $199.99 or less.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

If there's a removable controller or the ability to connect a Dual Shock through usb or something, I'm sold.

There will be games on the current PSP that allow for that functionality (Resistance Retribution being the 1st) ... maybe it's something that Sony might even employ via a firmware update to work with ALL current games (if we're lucky).

[swlovinist]

I disagree that PS1 and PS2 were not graphics powerhouses. They were the years they were released, PS1 in 1994/1995 and PS2 in 2000.

PCs and other consoles could not touch the PS1's 3D performance in 1994/1995. The PS2 was also far ahead of the fastest PCs and other consoles in rendering speed/performance (polygons/s, pixels/s, memory bandwidth, although not in image qualuty & textures) in 2000.

With the PS1, I can see your point, when it was released I suppose, but I would definately disagree with the PS2 being a powerhouse. When it came out, the graphics shown were not that much better than the Dreamcast, and in some cases worse.

The point I was trying to make is that those systems were supported by almost every game developer, and their strong libraries with thousands of games(over about 8 to 10 years a piece) made it a great system....not to mention being AFFORDABLE(for many years under $199). It was not the graphics of the system that made it great.

[Ailuros]

I don't understand why they'd be licensing a specific chipset unless they're planning on bringing this to market in the next year or so. The SGX55x graphics processor might be a great mobile GPU now, but it won't be anything close to cutting edge two years from now.

That SGX55x is most likely a replacement for the cancelled SGX555. While I have no idea if the first is going to be more or less powerful than the 555, according to IMG's own data it was to capture 20.3mm^2@65nm and at 200MHz with only <50% shader load yield 100 MTris/s and 4.0 GPixels/s (including overdraw) and that's VERY conservatively estimated.

Assuming you propose a two years from now release no vendor would be as dumb to include in such a device anything under 65nm. Switching merely to 45nm can give you either the opportunity for a simple die shrink which will result into roughly half the die size as in 65nm + higher frequencies or you can make good use of the added die area and increase by a healthy amount your unit amount and go over twice the performance as in 65nm.

If you should have meant compliance on the other hand, I'd suggest you have a closer look at various whitepapers for SGX. SGX545 comes with D3D10.1 compliance and that's already way too much for even a next generation handheld. If a developer needs higher specifications than that he can always use the procedural geometry capabilities of the chip which go way beyond SM4.1.

It all comes down to what exactly SONY ordered as a client to Imagination. If a client says I want something that is up to that many square millimeters big under X manufacturing process, then it automatically defines within borders the chip's final performance.

Finally what is cutting edge exactly? NVIDIA has it's Tegra/APX2500 for the handheld market which is a non-unified shader core. SGX is not only a unified shader core, but it also has MIMD units; ie more than just a bit ahead of anything any competitor could come up with for the next two years. NVIDIA has announced itself that integration for Tegra is expected somewhere in 2009 and I have the weird little feeling that you'll see it from another company starting with a "N" in its handhelds. In the meantime Tegra doesn't strike me neither like anything close to SM3.0 in terms of ALU capabilities nor anywhere close in performance even to a SGX54x. Wrapping up: what's "cutting edge" again?

With the PS1, I can see your point, when it was released I suppose, but I would definately disagree with the PS2 being a powerhouse. When it came out, the graphics shown were not that much better than the Dreamcast, and in some cases worse.

The point I was trying to make is that those systems were supported by almost every game developer, and their strong libraries with thousands of games(over about 8 to 10 years a piece) made it a great system....not to mention being AFFORDABLE(for many years under $199). It was not the graphics of the system that made it great.

Agreed on the 2nd paragraph. The Dreamcast supported by the way a form of 2x sample Supersampling, which of course will give you if it's used superior image quality.

PSP doesn't support any form of antialiasing; in contrast SGX can use 4x sample programmable Multisampling and as a tile based deferred renderer the cost for MSAA is miniscule in terms of memory footprint, fillrate and bandwidth. Of course will it come down to the developers what path they'll chose for any future game or game port. There's then the dilemma if he wants to invest resources in X% more triangles or work with a borderline Y that'll guarantee baseline performance on all handhelds of the time and just add some extra IQ improving features on a SGX f.e.

A handheld gaming console operates naturally with lower resolutions than a console or even worse a high end PC. Meaning the requirements aren't nearly as high and it's not too difficult to find a reasonable balance between performance, power consumption and battery life. The latter two aren't as much a consideration in bigger devices and hence any measures aren't comparable in the end between all those markets.

IMHO SONY had the chance to see the strength/potential of PowerVR's first generation IP (MBX) in its mobile phones. It shouldn't have been too hard to convince SONY for such a deal, when IMG has been sweeping the PDA/mobile market in recent years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powervr

[DeputyMoniker]

E=MC2

Most impressive first-post I've seen. Welcome to the board, Ailuros...if that's your real name!

[Ailuros]

Most impressive first-post I've seen. Welcome to the board, Ailuros...if that's your real name!

Thank you for the warm welcome and no it isn't my real name.

[DeputyMoniker]

Thank you for the warm welcome and no it isn't my real name.

Be sure to hit the "Introduce Yourself" thread:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5