Piracy

[neuropolitique]

You asked if he should be punished because he didn't know the laws.
I said yes.

You said one guys word isn't a real investigation, implying that there should be no real punishment as a result.
I said a banning from Live isn't a real punishment.

[CosmicMonkey]

If someone openly admits to piracy on a gaming forum such as this, they deserve to have their Xbox banned. No, they're not going to get jumped on by the law, but at least it's one more blatant pirate banned from Live.

They chose to openly talk about pirating games and modding their 360, so they should deal with the consequences.

[skaar]

Eh, nevermind.

[jdc]

The problem with piracy is that it allows people to satisfy an expensive and addictive gaming jones that they otherwise could not afford. After a time of acquiring free software, they soon start to out-and-out REFUSE to pay for any type of software whatsoever. It's a selfish attitude to take. You think that it can't hurt anyone? Everyone here knows Joe and his DP store. How'd you feel if his business was to fail? Several years ago, I too ran an independant bricks and mortar videogame store. This was at the time of the Playstation and the then brand new Dreamcast. PSX modding was the order of the day and news was getting around that Sega's new system needed no modding in order to run burned games. Here I was, making sure that my store was well stocked with all of the latest PSX and Dreamcast games. I got so frustrated with "gamers" coming into the shop, looking at all of the new releases, and then proudly proclaiming to my face that they didn't need to buy because they had a modded PSX and were going to rent and burn a copy instead. If games don't sell they become dated and almost impossible to move. This in turn means no cash flow. Not all of my customers were pirating, but large enough numbers were doing it that it caused me to finally walk away from the retail side of the gaming industry.

[Sabz5150]

One word sums up my views: Spore.

When companies don't treat people like criminals with DRM and lockouts that prevent them from doing something perfectly legal (homebrew, legal emulation and backups, etc.) then the people may stop acting like criminals.

[CosmicMonkey]

The problem with piracy is that it allows people to satisfy an expensive and addictive gaming jones that they otherwise could not afford. After a time of acquiring free software, they soon start to out-and-out REFUSE to pay for any type of software whatsoever.

Indeed. I had one of my mates over on Monday night and we ended up on the subject of Wii modding and homebrew. He was well impressed when I told him that I don't even need to crack the case and solder in a chip; I just need a certain game and SD card. But then after further conversation, I convinced him it's not a good plan. It's technically his son's Wii and we decided it's not good to teach a 6 year old that he can get free pirated games. Get him on that road now, and the boy will expect that from every future console.

[Matt-El]

What about hard to find/unreleased stuff? Imports? If there is no chance of it coming out anytime soon, or no way the person will be able to pay and play it through conventional means, should that piracy be banned?

[ProgrammingAce]

What about hard to find/unreleased stuff? Imports? If there is no chance of it coming out anytime soon, or no way the person will be able to pay and play it through conventional means, should that piracy be banned?

You can't pirate something that isn't available. Radiant Silvergun is easily available, but expensive. I'm perfectly fine with modding your console to play imports, i really wish more publishers would allow their games to go multi region.

While it sucks that people bought the game for $50 and are selling it for $150, welcome to capitalism. That's exactly how the stock market and your 401K works. Sometimes you just get lucky. Doesn't mean everyone else gets to pirate the game 'cause they can't or don't want to pay $150. Is it wrong for someone to make a profit when they sell their house? Should goods always remain the same price? What about inflation?

One word sums up my views: Spore.

When companies don't treat people like criminals with DRM and lockouts that prevent them from doing something perfectly legal (homebrew, legal emulation and backups, etc.) then the people may stop acting like criminals.

The current use of the term "Piracy" in relations to copyright infringement comes from 1703. See here. People were pirating intellectual property long before there was such thing as DRM. The DRM came as a result of the population's actions, not the other way around.

[Sabz5150]

The current use of the term "Piracy" in relations to copyright infringement comes from 1703. See here. People were pirating intellectual property long before there was such thing as DRM. The DRM came as a result of the population's actions, not the other way around.

*I* did nothing to warrant *MY* purchases being locked down by these horrid methods. *I* am not a criminal, do not treat me like one.

[Matt-El]

Well let's say, "Double Dragon II" for Japanese Mega Drive. There are no copies available on ebay, there is no issue of money if you have the money, but you can't just go to a store and buy it. But if you really want to play it, you could try and track down a rom site, an emulator and play it. So though you can't copy it, but can download it. How do you feel about that situation?

[ProgrammingAce]

Well let's say, "Double Dragon II" for Japanese Mega Drive. There are no copies available on ebay, there is no issue of money if you have the money, but you can't just go to a store and buy it. But if you really want to play it, you could try and track down a rom site, an emulator and play it. So though you can't copy it, but can download it. How do you feel about that situation?

Personally? I don't really care. If it's not actively in production, the only people you're hurting are fellow collectors. I don't think it's right and i don't do it, but i'm just not that into classic games.

*I* did nothing to warrant *MY* purchases being locked down by these horrid methods. *I* am not a criminal, do not treat me like one.

Never? Not once? You've never grabbed a song off of napster, downloaded a rom off the net, burned a copy of a CD from a friend? Pirated a copy of windows back when you were 13?

If so, then good for you. What would you like us to do then? Make 2 versions of the Xbox and only sell one to the people who swear not to pirate games? The console isn't region locked, region locking is up to the individual publisher. If you want to play japanese games, go bitch to the japanese publishers.

[Porksta]

As with music, I can't stand people that say they download the whole thing so that they can "see if they like it, and then buy it if they do." BUUUUUUULLSHIIIIIIT!

[geneshifter]

As with music, I can't stand people that say they download the whole thing so that they can "see if they like it, and then buy it if they do." BUUUUUUULLSHIIIIIIT!

Yeah, such a lame excuse especially today when everyone is posting gameplay vids on youtube. Go look at those instead of stealing.

[Sabz5150]

Never? Not once? You've never grabbed a song off of napster, downloaded a rom off the net, burned a copy of a CD from a friend? Pirated a copy of windows back when you were 13?

When I was 13, 3.1 was a kludge and got in the way of my games.

The roms in my possession are for my legal purposes. I hardly emulate unless I am on the road.

My music downloads involve live sets and radio broadcasts of events. The law allows me to do that.

Now, I won't say I haven't done any piracy, but the things I did snag I have since bought legally. If something is good enough, I will drop my money for it... it is worth it to me.

If so, then good for you. What would you like us to do then? Make 2 versions of the Xbox and only sell one to the people who swear not to pirate games? The console isn't region locked, region locking is up to the individual publisher. If you want to play japanese games, go bitch to the japanese publishers.

I don't want to deal with DRM. DRM and other "protection methods" are more about sacking the customer for more cash than worrying about hypothetical statistics about how much a company "might have lost" due to the evil pirates. it always has been. Case in point? Broadcast flag. Guess what? After mid February, we're all taking a bite of that particular sh!t sandwich. Why do you think DTV is being pushed by the industry? Tivo and DVD recorders are cutting into profits at the movie stores. Now we can dictate what they can and cannot record. And commercials? Can't skip them. Take that Sony v. Betamax!!!

Again... Spore. Who thought it was a good idea to restrict reinstallation? Why is this person working somewhere besides Taco Bell? Who are you to dictate how many times I reinstall my machine? Why are you saying that I can no longer use the software *I LEGALLY PURCHASED* anymore, simply because I wiped my box?I purchased a license to your software, I expect to be able to use it.

You want a lesson in the DRM/piracy link? There it is.

I don't support piracy and I purchase my games legally (that's the point of this hobby) but the other edge of that sword is that I have no pity for ANY developer or company that employs DRM. Not one single shred. If I purchase a game with DRM, I will use every method I have to crack it, simply so I don't have to deal with the headaches. I back up my games. This is Fair Use. So why again are you restricting my *FAIR USE*?

[Sabz5150]

Yeah, such a lame excuse especially today when everyone is posting gameplay vids on youtube. Go look at those instead of stealing.

Watch a video of your next car instead of test driving it.

[kedawa]

Modding an XBOX 360 doesn't allow you to cheat.
I don't know ehere you got that from. All it does is allow 1:1 copies of discs to be run in the DVDROM drive.
It doesn't allow you to run unsigned code or homebrew or anything like that.
The people who are cheating are modding their hard drive caches, which is something completely different.

[geneshifter]

Watch a video of your next car instead of test driving it.

Please. I think a complex machine such as a car is a little different than a disc with some code on it.

[darkslime]

Please. I think a complex machine such as a car is a little different than a disc with some code on it.

In a way, yes, but in the sense we are talking about, no. You can't see important aspects of the game in a video, such as how it controls. The legal way that supports the economy would be to rent it though.

[Sabz5150]

Please. I think a complex machine such as a car is a little different than a disc with some code on it.

Really?



Here's a disc. What kinda code is on it? You mean I can't find out until I buy? Oh, but I can see pictures and watch some ten second clips.

"Some code" can produce either a killer app or an app whose writer should be killed. Take Mortal Kombat for example. By only looking at the pictures and only watching some video clips, you'd expect the SNES version to trump the Genesis. Better graphics and sound all the way around.

Too bad the videos and pictures didn't tell you about the split second control delay, and that is something which makes or breaks a game. Just some code.

[ProgrammingAce]

I don't support piracy and I purchase my games legally (that's the point of this hobby) but the other edge of that sword is that I have no pity for ANY developer or company that employs DRM. Not one single shred. If I purchase a game with DRM, I will use every method I have to crack it, simply so I don't have to deal with the headaches. I back up my games. This is Fair Use. So why again are you restricting my *FAIR USE*?

PC gaming is dead. Unless your game connects to some sort of service like Steam or is an MMO, you're dead in the water. As a matter of fact, i hope PC gaming dies a quick death. I hope EA DRM's each and every release they put out to the point where people stop buying their games. But they won't stop buying the games... because the average person doesn't care.

My first job in this industry was as an AI programmer for a AAA PC game. I'm no stranger to that side of the business. When you only sell 50,000 copies of your game, and you have 75,000 accounts on your multiplayer list, then your platform of choice is screwed.

Let's take a look at the top 10 best selling PC games for the week before christmas:

1. World Of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King (Blizzard)
2. Spore (EA Maxis)
3. Call Of Duty: World At War (Treyarch)
4. Left 4 Dead (Valve)
5. Fallout 3 (Bethesda)
6. The Sims 2 Deluxe (EA Maxis)
7. The Sims 2 Apartment Life expansion pack (EA Maxis)
8. Bejeweled Twist (PopCap)
9. World of Warcraft Battle Chest (Blizzard)
10. The Sims 2 Mansion & Garden Stuff expansion pack (EA Maxis)

Wow, there's a branch of the industry we should struggle to keep alive, eh?

Screw DTV and broadcast flags, that's your problem. I haven't watched TV since 2003. You're arguing with the wrong guy on that one. I didn't like the restrictions, so i stopped watching. I recommend you do the same.

Here's a disc. What kinda code is on it? You mean I can't find out until I buy? Oh, but I can see pictures and watch some ten second clips..

So as long as you only break the law to make sure a game is good, you should be free to do so. Is that your point? How about you just try out the demo? If the game doesn't have a demo, don't buy it! If they choose not to have a demo, it isn't your right to pirate the game.

Agan, what do you propose? We allow everyone to pirate whatever they want for 24 hours? How do you expect to police that without.... DRM?