Fifteen Classic Game Console Design Mistakes

[sidnotcrazy]

I felt like the author missed the boat. He didn't even mention the Atari 7800 joysticks. Those were packed in the states, and they were terrible. I had hand cramps on top of hand cramps using those. Decent list, but again a lot of his "complaints" were not seen or even able to be addressed at the time. Like the RF switchbox, most tvs had two screws for rabbit ears, so lets just say it was a different time then.

How did the Colecovision skip the list? If the Intellivision controller was unconfortable, the Colecovision had to be the same or worse? I like both controllers, but they do take some getting use to.

[Gentlegamer]

What are you smoking? That statement is correct for classic consoles like the Atari 2600 and Atari 7800.

Oldest console you've played must be a NES. There were at one time switchboxes that weren't automatic.

Yup, that was a ritual for playing the VCS.

When I saw the article was by Benj Edwards, I knew it would be good. His blog at http://www.vintagecomputing.com/ is excellent.

[alxbly]

"The complexity and depth of Nintendo 64 games suffered as a result".

Hmmm. I'm not so sure that N64 games did suffer in that way as a result of cartridges. Sure, there wasn't as much third party support as Nintendo hoped (understatement!) but a lot of the games that did get produced certainly didn't lack complexity or depth. For example, Ocarina of Time is full of depth, Goldeneye certainly didn't lack detail. There's plenty third party games that have sufficient complexity/depth as well; Shadow Man, Quake 2, Duke Nukem Zero Hour, Turok 2, etc, etc...

[Gentlegamer]

"The complexity and depth of Nintendo 64 games suffered as a result".

"The inclusion of crappy FMV in Nintendo 64 games suffered as a result."

That's how I read it.

[garagesaleking!!]

i know nothing about game programming at all, but am i wrong to think that mario party is a somewhat complex n64 game?

[StoneAgeGamer]

I liked the DC controller and I played many hours of PSO as well and never had a problem with it. I have noticed the DC controller is very polarizing. People either love it or hate it.

Article was pretty spot on though.

[Kiddo]

I'll have to go with the "n64 problem is exaggerated", crowd. It's really more the decision to fuck over all the 64DD hype that's peeving there. The rest of the problems though are more legit.

On the Sega end: Hwo did they miss the fact that a Genesis/CD/32x required so many power adapters that Sega made a SPECIAL POWER STRIP just for using all of them? Combined with the 32x ALSO needing it's own cable to connect to the Genesis's AV out ALONG with needing to connect through the cartridge port. Oh, and that supposedly most of the initial release batch was defective.

On the Saturn: The US Saturn's first controller version - this more or less mirrors the original Xbox's "Duke" vs "Controller S" scenario.

Sony: the original Playstation's lack of RAM - or RAM upgradability - came to bite them when Capcom wanted to port their VS. series fighting games. Although this didn't matter much in America (The Saturn was already mostly dead here), it led to Sega having superior a notably superior port of an arcade hit.

Super Famicom: The Satellaview had a load of ridiculous limitations (Most were more software-enforced than hardware-related, actually, but one of them was obviously that Satellite Radio streaming was NO Substitute for proper CD Audio.) that have led to a faded popularitiy in Japan and confusion among collectors,researchers and Nintendo fanboys who try to look for information on it and see/read things that they can't put proper context on.

[Kid Fenris]

"The inclusion of crappy FMV in Nintendo 64 games suffered as a result."

That's how I read it.

Crappy FMV games were dead and buried by the time the Nintendo 64 launched. How many awful FMV games were even released for the PlayStation and Saturn in North America? Was Fox Hunt the only one?

Edit: After looking it up, I count six FMV titles on the PlayStation: Fox Hunt, Psychic Detective, The X-Files, Cyberia, Novastorm, and Braindead 13. Thank heavens the Nintendo 64 was spared such a plague.

Using cartridges for the Nintendo 64 was a hilarious mistake, and the article is right to point that out.

[Gentlegamer]

Crappy FMV games were dead and buried by the time the Nintendo 64 launched. How many awful FMV games were even released for the PlayStation and Saturn in North America? Was Fox Hunt the only one?

Edit: After looking it up, I count six FMV titles on the PlayStation: Fox Hunt, Psychic Detective, The X-Files, Cyberia, Novastorm, and Braindead 13. Thank heavens the Nintendo 64 was spared such a plague.

Using cartridges for the Nintendo 64 was a hilarious mistake, and the article is right to point that out.

I'm referring to the FMV in games like Final Fantasy VII, for example. Square pulled development of the original N64 because FF7 'wouldn't fit on a cart.' The game itself would fit just fine, but the FMV cut scenes would not.

Benj also neglects to mention the legal implications of Nintendo using CD format that influenced its decision: having to pay Sony royalties.

[A Black Falcon]

What about the 3D0 and how you have to "link" controllers for more then 1 person to play.

That was the WORST idea.

How, exactly, is that a worse idea than needing to buy a separate addon in order to be able to play with more than 1 or 2 people? I'd say that multitap-free multiplayer is a very good thing... having to buy an addon in order to play some multiplayer modes is annoying, and the 3DO had a pretty interesting idea there. Microsoft used it later on, the original Sidewinder Gamepad for the PC had a gamepad port on it, so you could plug a second pad or joystick into the Sidewinder and switch between them (for certain joystick models such as the Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro). Great idea, I thought.

"The complexity and depth of Nintendo 64 games suffered as a result".

Hmmm. I'm not so sure that N64 games did suffer in that way as a result of cartridges. Sure, there wasn't as much third party support as Nintendo hoped (understatement!) but a lot of the games that did get produced certainly didn't lack complexity or depth. For example, Ocarina of Time is full of depth, Goldeneye certainly didn't lack detail. There's plenty third party games that have sufficient complexity/depth as well; Shadow Man, Quake 2, Duke Nukem Zero Hour, Turok 2, etc, etc...

Agreed here as well for sure, N64 games did not suffer in any way graphically or in game design because of the cart decision. The only things that were really affected were music and making it harder for developers not good at compression, really (the low-res textures are mostly because of the tiny texture cache, not the carts).

3d N64 game complexity and depth was above that of your average game on any other system that generation, and at the top end they did more than anything possible on any other system that generation.

"The inclusion of crappy FMV in Nintendo 64 games suffered as a result."

That's how I read it.

Hah, now that I agree with. Quite true.

Crappy FMV games were dead and buried by the time the Nintendo 64 launched. How many awful FMV games were even released for the PlayStation and Saturn in North America? Was Fox Hunt the only one?

Edit: After looking it up, I count six FMV titles on the PlayStation: Fox Hunt, Psychic Detective, The X-Files, Cyberia, Novastorm, and Braindead 13. Thank heavens the Nintendo 64 was spared such a plague.

Using cartridges for the Nintendo 64 was a hilarious mistake, and the article is right to point that out.

FMV doesn't just mean live-action video, it also means CG cutscenes. And if one thing hurt the N64, it was the fact that JRPG developers couldn't do their precious pre-rendered FMV cutscenes on N64, so they all went to PSX instead, and doomed Nintendo in Japan that generation.

There were some other factors, but I think that was one of the biggest ones. Of course Resident Evil 2 for instance shows that you CAN actually do FMV on the N64, but it takes a lot of effort...

Using cartridges on the N64 was absolutely not a mistake, it was a good decision that made games on the system more fun and less frustrating (no/less load times, etc).

[AB Positive]

I have to agree with the "Carts being a mistake" on the N64 side of things. Now, yes - you can do a LOT with 64 MB. But you can do a lot more with 650. You suffer due to loading times but a smart programmer can ease this.

Not that every PSX or Saturn programmer was smart (who coded the PSX version of Street Fighter Alpha? WHO????) but still - it can be easily mitigated.

This isn't to say that N64 was a bad system though. Not one of my faves but come on - Mario 64, Zelda OoT, Starfox 64... clearly you can make a classic on the N64. I just wonder how many more AAA titles would've hit the N64 if it had more spacious media, that's all.

[Jorpho]

What about the 3D0 and how you have to "link" controllers for more then 1 person to play.

That was the WORST idea.

That came up in the AVGN Plumbers Don't Wear Ties video. Just what is so terrible about this idea? It's a bit odd, but it seems quite reasonable to me. I can see it as potentially even reducing the occurrence of tangled cables.

[Kid Fenris]

I'm referring to the FMV in games like Final Fantasy VII, for example. Square pulled development of the original N64 because FF7 'wouldn't fit on a cart.' The game itself would fit just fine, but the FMV cut scenes would not.

Square also shunned the Nintendo 64 because the system's memory and the price of cartridges made it far more feasible to make CD-based games on the PlayStation. Consider the Square games that don't use FMV extensively: Threads of Fate, Einhander, Ehrgeiz, Bushido Blade, the Tobal games, and so on. If FMV was the only factor in Square rejecting cartridges, the company would have hosted a few games on the Nintendo 64.

They didn't. Politics played some role in this, but Square also thought there was no profit, creative or financial, to be made on the Nintendo 64. Like the majority of developers, they realized that the cartridge format was a moribund money-sink for console games.

FMV doesn't just mean live-action video, it also means CG cutscenes. And if one thing hurt the N64, it was the fact that JRPG developers couldn't do their precious pre-rendered FMV cutscenes on N64, so they all went to PSX instead, and doomed Nintendo in Japan that generation.

And yet most of the early PlayStation RPGs don't use FMV extensively: Suikoden, Arc the Lad, Wild Arms, and Persona all have very limited FMV sequences. Only Final Fantasy VII heavily integrates them. Later games, made well after the PlayStation dominated the market, use FMV more often, but it's still prevalent mostly in Square titles. In fact, Dragon Quest VII, the other big Japanese RPG of the PlayStation era, doesn't have many video sequences.

JRPG developers, like many other developers, went to the PlayStation because it was cheaper, it was easier to develop for, it offered better music/video/voice integration, and it wasn't hopelessly tied to fading, obsolete cartridges.

[Aussie2B]

The PlayStation has enough weaknesses in its own hardware to negate any advantage it had in pure storage space, if you ask me.

I don't think the Virtual Boy or N64 should be on that list. When you compare them the other Nintendo mentions, they just aren't on the same label. The Game Boy Advance problems, those were pure boneheadedness, and while they had their reasons given the market, the front-loading of the NES certainly wasn't necessary and is a real flaw. But the Virtual Boy and the N64 are a result of what Nintendo valued and what limitations they had to deal with.

Yokoi's original concept for the Virtual Boy was brilliant, but it was too far ahead of its time. The product that came to market was they best they could give us short of asking for an exorbitant amount of money. Given that, I think they still did fine. Not being in a comfortable position when playing is just whining and entirely the player's fault. You don't have to "crouch up" to it to play. In fact, I generally play standing up with the system on a shelf, and I'm perfectly comfortable for the 30-60 minutes that I play. And, sure, full color would've been lovely, but it's not as if it was feasible and Nintendo just didn't feel like it. It was the best they could offer given the era, and I see it silly to complain about it just as it would be to whine that the original Game Boy was black and white or that the Atari 2600 didn't have the color palette of, say, the NES.

And with the N64, no one ever has nor ever will make a good argument for "carts = inferior games". It's not like discs were some godsend that made games infinitely better. If they were, why was the Sega CD such a flop? Just because Sega and Sony had decided to go with discs doesn't mean a memo was sent saying "Hey, Nintendo, you're not allowed to use carts anymore." There were and will always been some clear advantages to carts, and that's precisely why Nintendo went with them. Obviously, there are clear advantages to discs too. From a business standpoint, I'll agree that it was a mistake in that they did lose third party support, but from a design point, I don't think so. They simply chose to go their own route, it suit their needs, and in the end they had many of the biggest selling games ever on that platform.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm with Aussie2B on this one. Cartridges weren't responsible for muddy N64 textures, nor did they prevent the system from having otherwise excellent visuals and sound. It didn't hold back Zelda games (imagine Zelda with more FMV).

It wasn't amazing to be limited to cartridges, and they were expensive, which certainly holds back who can develop for the system (no doubt that kept smaller companies, and others as well, from releasing both awesome and terrible games, and led companies more towards releasing "sure hits").

But at the end of the day my N64 still works just fine, and it will remain doing so for many years to come. (So does my PlayStation, knock on wood.)

The real mistake with the N64 was the analog sticks - not exactly flimsy but the plastic knob turns into powder after a time (even without the help of Smash Bros.).

[Sonicwolf]

The real mistake with the N64 was the analog sticks - not exactly flimsy but the plastic knob turns into powder after a time (even without the help of Smash Bros.).

Are we forgetting the real culprit for Nintendo 64 analog stick failures? That damned minigame in Mario Party with the boat and the oars. The one where you have to rapidly rotate the joystick.

[Darren870]

How, exactly, is that a worse idea than needing to buy a separate addon in order to be able to play with more than 1 or 2 people? I'd say that multitap-free multiplayer is a very good thing... having to buy an addon in order to play some multiplayer modes is annoying, and the 3DO had a pretty interesting idea there. Microsoft used it later on, the original Sidewinder Gamepad for the PC had a gamepad port on it, so you could plug a second pad or joystick into the Sidewinder and switch between them (for certain joystick models such as the Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro). Great idea, I thought.

They should have simply had 2-4 control ports. Linking was just a pain and in my opinion created more of a mess. If someone tugged there controller it would just screw up everyone else.

[Kid Fenris]

The Virtual Boy was an idea ahead of its time, and Nintendo was wrong to attempt it with mid-1990s consumer technology. The Virtual Boy's existence was therefore a mistake. You can say it's a fun little failure, but you can't excuse Nintendo pushing it to the market.

There were and will always been some clear advantages to carts.

What's the advantage to cartridges beyond durability and the lack of loading times, neither of which improves actual game design?

[Sonicwolf]

What's the advantage to cartridges beyond durability and the lack of loading times, neither of which improves actual game design?

The ability to include special hardware or software options that compliment the abilities of the console ala Super FX? Or how about the ability to save without game-external storage.

[Kid Fenris]

The ability to include special hardware or software options that compliment the abilities of the console ala Super FX?

That's a fair point, though it didn't really help the Nintendo 64. The system's expansion pack was sold as a separate item instead of being integrated into the cartridges.

Or how about the ability to save without game-external storage.

Eh, I can't give you that. It has no influence on game content, and there are equal advantages to having save files separate from the game media itself.