Freakin never saw it comin [RROD]

[TonyTheTiger]

The XBox 360 is the only game system to date that is guaranteed to fail long before it becomes obsolete.

Why anyone would buy one and then be surprised by its failure, surprised by the lack of consumer support, and then repeat all of that by shelling out for an nth new one is the real surprise.

That's hyperbole. The failure rate is unacceptably high but it isn't 100%. And I think that an unacceptably large number of fat PS2s before the 39000 series suffered from DREs and a similar situation happened with early models of the PSX. So fragile consoles that have a tendency to fail during their relevant lifetime are no new thing. The 360 situation may be worse but it's by no means the first time this has happened.

But what's this about a lack of consumer support? Sending in a 360 is a rather painless process. You can print out the shipping label off the net and don't have to pay a dime for shipping.

[megasdkirby]

But what's this about a lack of consumer support? Sending in a 360 is a rather painless process. You can print out the shipping label off the net and don't have to pay a dime for shipping.

But does Microsoft return the same console, or a new, refurbished console?

What if I want the same console back?

[TonyTheTiger]

Depends. I've had one of each happen. The first time it wasn't a RROD nor, in fact, any ordinary problem. The console just froze up at random times. I got the same one back all fixed up but I'm not really sure what they did to fix it. The second time, RROD, I got a different console.

If there's something special about a specific console that makes it sentimental or otherwise important beyond just being a device used to play video games then sending it in to anybody is probably foolish. In that case fixing it yourself or finding somebody local who can do it might be a better solution. You'd have to pay for the materials and labor but I guess that's the trade off for having an attachment to a specific machine. I have a couple of things, some game related, that I wouldn't want to replace so I can relate. But I'm aware that if the machine fails it's sort of on me to deal with it if I happen to have some kind of uncommon attachment to the nuts and bolts.

I suppose the theory of wanting the same console instead of a different one is based on the belief that there's a greater chance the new one will fail but I'm not sure that's really true since they fix them all the same anyway so the console you get back, original or otherwise, is still refurbished. I don't have any numbers either way. I realize my situation might not be representative but I made out like a bandit when they sent me a new machine. Newer model DVD drive, quieter model fans, etc. It's still just a fixed Xenon board instead of what I was really shooting for, an Opus, but no biggie. I was half contemplating forcing a RROD just to send it in again to see if I'd get an Opus the next time around but I figure I'll wait to see what happens. Come to think of it, do they even check the machines? What would they do if I claimed RROD for a working console?

I can, however, understand somebody being pissed off if they send a newer model in and get a refurbished older model back. That is a negative mark they should address but, all things considered, it's still one of the best "we fucked up but we'll make it right" situations I've seen. I've dealt with a lot of quality assurance problems on both the hardware side and software side and usually the go to line is "tough shit."

[Zthun]

You could always try to fix it yourself. The process doesn't look too difficult (I haven't tried it), but you'll have to turn a lot of screws.

Edit: I would recommend only trying this if the console is out of warranty and you actually know how to turn screws and hold a motherboard.

[TonyTheTiger]

You could always try to fix it yourself. The process doesn't look too difficult (I haven't tried it), but you'll have to turn a lot of screws.

Don't quote me on this, but for anybody who's warranty is not up I've heard that it's possible to remove the security sticker without actually causing it to result in a voided warranty. Something about hairdryers and various tools that can allow you to remove the sticker intact so you can put it back when you're done fiddling with the internals.

This creates the possibility for some dastardly deeds I wouldn't take part in nor recommend but understand could potentially happen. Buying a console from GameStop, removing the warranty sticker intact, swapping the working internals with the non-working internals of your own console, replacing the sticker, and then returning the thing to GameStop for a refund or sending it in to Microsoft for a free repair.

[Zthun]

This creates the possibility for some dastardly deeds I wouldn't take part in nor recommend but understand could potentially happen. Buying a console from GameStop, removing the warranty sticker intact, swapping the working internals with the non-working internals of your own console, replacing the sticker, and then returning the thing to GameStop for a refund or sending it in to Microsoft for a free repair.

Why...what a great idea...thanks Tony.

[Arcade Antics]

That's hyperbole. The failure rate is unacceptably high but it isn't 100%.

Maybe "guaranteed" is a touch too severe. But let's count the threads that say "I've had an XB360 for ___ years and never had an RROD."

The point is that overall, you plan on getting the RROD instead of the typical plan, which is that the thing just works.

[megasdkirby]

I remember watching Youtube videos on how people were forcefully trying to RROD their console. Most of the times, it's because of a bad DVD drive or any other problem, so they cause an RROD on purpose to get it replaced.

[mobiusclimber]

Almost every single disc-based system ever released has had problems with it, and that will likely continue for as long as games are released on discs. The Sega CD had problems, the Turbo Grafx CD had problems, the PSX, PS2, Xbox, 360 and PS3 all have had problems. SONY WAS SUCCESSFULLY SUED for the DRE problems with their PS2 consoles, a point that I made on page one. So I guess you won't be buying any of Sony's systems then, right?

God ... fanboys.

[TonyTheTiger]

Maybe "guaranteed" is a touch too severe. But let's count the threads that say "I've had an XB360 for ___ years and never had an RROD."

The point is that overall, you plan on getting the RROD instead of the typical plan, which is that the thing just works.

I don't know what the failure rates are for the newer boards, particularly the Jasper. It's still probably relatively high compared to the Wii and PS3 failure rates but most assuredly lower than the original Xenon board. So presumably a person can buy a new 360 today and at least have some confidence it won't red ring. Once again, I'm not excusing Microsoft for the original engineering nightmare. I am, however, at least thankful there is some recourse which is more than I can say for my early model PSX and PS2 which I had to fiddle with multiple times to deal with the DRE problem until it got to the point where all I could do is go out and buy another one. I bought a used PS2 (a 39000 series) from GameStop about two years ago since my first one no longer reads anything except DVDs and the various do it yourself fixes no longer work.

And I don't mean to point the finger and say "well, Sony did it first" because that doesn't excuse Microsoft's screw up. But I can at least say that in the situation we now find ourselves, with no means of contacting Doc Brown to change the past, Microsoft addressed the problem about as competently as it could. What does Microsoft need to do at this point to get people to stop crying foul? Or is it a shame the company must forever live with like a giant scarlet letter, or in this case, red ring?

[sonoranreptile]

You could give a hobo a 360 and he could send that sucker in every week until the other hobos steal it (and then THEY could send it in).

@carlcarlson.....when I made the comment every 5 days I was referencing your quote....so, yes it IS stupid to imply it dies every 5 days. I guess I meant 7 days.......

@mobiusclimber

Sony settled its “disc read error” lawsuit by compensating the affected gamers with USD $25, a free game from a specified list, and (of course) the reduced cost repair or replacement (at SCEA’s discretion) of the damaged system. This settlement was subject to the courts’ approval, and hearings began in the US and Canada on April 28, 2006, and May 11, 2006, respectively.

They also redesigned their system (slim) for better reliability. I own all of those old CD based game systems. Many have their problems, but for the love of GAWD, nothing that even comes close to the failure rate of the 360. I would own one again if it wasn't for that....

[Enigmus]

Believe it or not, I thought the title of this said "Frankie never saw it coming" when I saw it on a Wii. Stupid yellow cable blur. That's the last topic title YOU'LL ever make it sound like Frankie got in some trouble!

[megasdkirby]

God ... fanboys.

Not every case is a fanboy issue.

My criticism stems from fear. I WANT a Xbox 360 (like I mentioned earlier, I have around 30 games for the console), but I fear getting one and it screwing up relatively quickly. And yes, while it's not 100$ fullproof that it will damage, taking into account every possible information obtained, the probabilities are high that it will damage at a relatively quick rate. This is something I don't want. I want something to last me a few years at least, and not constantly worry that it will damage every time I turn the console on to play.

Once this issue is resolved successfully, then I will get one without even thinking. The urge to play is incredibly great, but the fear of it damaging quickly is even greater.

[dsullo]

If you want to keep going with you 360 gaming, I'd say buy a new Arcade unit.

You'll get another wireless controller (a $50 value which you can easily sell if you don't need it) a unit with an HDMI port, a newer (allegedly less failure prone) motherboard design, and you'll reboot your entire warranty.

You can use the online license transfer tool (once a year only!) so you can play all the DRM heavy games on your HDD, and you'll be good to go.

You can even sell your RROD unit on eBay ... there are people out there that'll buy em broken!

Personally, I wouldn't pay $100 for repairs (or likely a refurb unit).
That's just me, but it doesn't sound like you're game for that either.

this is exactly what I did and I never regretted it for a minute!!

[megasdkirby]

Somewhat on topic, but is it possible to determine whether or not an Xbox console has "jasper" or any "good" motherboard?

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't know if this is 100% guaranteed but it seems like a decent way of figuring it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qt6GKg59ak

http://www.360drives.com/howto

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Believe it or not, I thought the title of this said "Frankie never saw it coming" when I saw it on a Wii. Stupid yellow cable blur. That's the last topic title YOU'LL ever make it sound like Frankie got in some trouble!

Nope, haven't pissed the entire forum off ... lately.

Sorry to disappoint!

[mobiusclimber]

Not every case is a fanboy issue.

My criticism stems from fear. I WANT a Xbox 360 (like I mentioned earlier, I have around 30 games for the console), but I fear getting one and it screwing up relatively quickly. And yes, while it's not 100$ fullproof that it will damage, taking into account every possible information obtained, the probabilities are high that it will damage at a relatively quick rate. This is something I don't want. I want something to last me a few years at least, and not constantly worry that it will damage every time I turn the console on to play.

Once this issue is resolved successfully, then I will get one without even thinking. The urge to play is incredibly great, but the fear of it damaging quickly is even greater.

I've been trying not to say anything for fear of jinxing it, but I got my 360 used quite awhile ago (maybe over a year now?) and it works fine. Granted I don't play it nearly as often as most people would, since I'm really a retro gamer at heart, but still.

I've read that the newer Elite 360 consoles really don't have nearly as high a failure rate. (Basically it's about on par w/ the PS3's failure rate.) Anyway, don't know how true it is, and I haven't had to find out yet, thankfully. If my 360 DID RROD, I think I'd just sell it to someone who wanted a broken one and sell off the games I have for it as well. I just don't get much use out of the newer consoles (I also own a Wii and that's great for collecting dust but not much else).

[Zthun]

A lot of this is a lot like windows. When a new version of windows comes out, most experienced computer people won't jump on the band wagon until it has working drivers. Some wait until it has a service pack or two.

I see nothing wrong with waiting for the 360 to stable out, but as it was said, all the disc console systems had problems. I remember the PS1's overheating problems and how, when my first one died, I had to make sure to shut off the console every two hours to let it cool.

It's foolish to expect a 100% working system with no bugs. There is always bugs, in both hardware and software. That's just the way it is. If you attempt to find all of them before you release, your product will never get released.

[sonoranreptile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_36...nical_problems
Don't just read the page, go to the source pages cited as well......LMAO